Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
Sounds like a lot of work just to get access to it. -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 2:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I'd call or email Fred at PYI. He also has a lot of YouTube videos. Joel On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Sounds like a lot of work just to get access to it. -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 2:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I wonder if your pits were from not using it and then oxidation or electrolysis cause carbon material to deteriorate. The more you use it the better the seal is as the carbon polishes itself out. I had leakage when my prop coupling was badly miss-aligned but once I fixed that, leakage went away. Don't forget to replace set screws every time you loosen them. I installed mine new in 2004. Had it out on 4-5 occasions at which time I would soak everything in a tupperware container with WD40 for few days then wipe it clean. Then I read this article. http://www.passagemaker.com/articles/technical/running-gear/dripless-shaft-s eals/ And I realized that I was probably lucky that I never had a problem. I am due for whatever overhaul kit comes for it. They don't specify the size and thread on the set screw. I have ordered a 25 pack from mcmaster 5/16-18 in 316SS, with a point set. I am yet to see how they fit. Petar Horvatic Sundowner 76 CC 38MkII Newport, RI -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 1:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I would not do it, because you would have to get new set screws and reset it in the spring. I am leaving mine intact. Marek (in Ottawa) -Original Message- From: Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 1:21 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I second following PYI’s recommendations for maintenance and winterizing. I replaced Calypso’s bellows and carbon rotor after 8 years. The SS rotor was fine with a little cleaning. I had the PYI instruction sheet in hand as I set the bellows compression and tightened the SS rotor in place. For the past 29 years of owning boats with PYI Shaft Seals installed I have not de-commissioned the shaft seal over winter. We often use the boat all year, but only once or twice a month between December and March. (This year we will run the engine in place as the deck restoration work shelter is still in place.) After a long lay up, I would certainly inspect the bellows and rotors, burp the bellows and rotate by hand the seal interface (to be sure the rotors have not been bonded together), and check the tightness of the hose clamps. I do rinse the bellows and rotor with fresh water from time to time to prevent salt build up. The one major failure of a bellows that I have read about was caused by lack of maintenance and use. IIRC the boat had sat idle for year(s?) and the rotors bonded together. When the engine was put in gear the shaft rotation was fully transmitted to the bellows resulting in a tear. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 10:29 AM To: Hoyt, Mike; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal I'd call or email Fred at PYI. He also has a lot of YouTube videos. Joel On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Sounds like a lot of work just to get access to it. -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 2:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I don't touch mine. Week/old/worn engine mounts can allow a week/old/worn/poorly adjusted bellows to leak especially at high thrust periods (Tied to the dock, towing, or changing from full reverse to full ahead). You can often times finish the season or even extend a season or two by simply snugging up on the SS collar but you are on borrowed time and the interest rate could be very high. During the launch you should burp the collar to ensure no air is trapped. The carbon and stainless need a tiny bit of water to cool and lubricate. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Oct 17, 2014 1:22 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
I've had my PYI seal for 10 yrs and I've never touched it - works flawless - except to burp it when I splash in the spring. sam :-) Original Message From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 12:28 PM To: Eric Frank; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: Marek Dziedzic Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal I would not do it, because you would have to get new set screws and reset it in the spring. I am leaving mine intact. Marek (in Ottawa) -Original Message- From: Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 1:21 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal
A simple solution for the set screw issue is to use the retention collar (http://www.pyiinc.com/index.php?section=src). It uses very positive compression (i.e. large) bolts to hold on to the shaft. If you install it right behind the stainless steel bearing of the PSS, it would (almost) never move back. I think it is insurance worth its $30 price. Marek -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Petar Horvatic via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 2:17 PM To: 'Eric Frank'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal I wonder if your pits were from not using it and then oxidation or electrolysis cause carbon material to deteriorate. The more you use it the better the seal is as the carbon polishes itself out. I had leakage when my prop coupling was badly miss-aligned but once I fixed that, leakage went away. Don't forget to replace set screws every time you loosen them. I installed mine new in 2004. Had it out on 4-5 occasions at which time I would soak everything in a tupperware container with WD40 for few days then wipe it clean. Then I read this article. http://www.passagemaker.com/articles/technical/running-gear/dripless-shaft-s eals/[Marek Dziedzic] And I realized that I was probably lucky that I never had a problem. I am due for whatever overhaul kit comes for it. They don't specify the size and thread on the set screw. I have ordered a 25 pack from mcmaster 5/16-18 in 316SS, with a point set. I am yet to see how they fit. Petar Horvatic Sundowner 76 CC 38MkII Newport, RI -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Eric Frank via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 1:22 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List winterizing the PYI shaft seal Practical Sailor recently posted a suggestion for winterizing the Dripless PYI shaft seal. PS said to unclamp the SS rotor from the prop shaft so the bellows could expand to its uncompressed state. I have never done this, and with the recent discussion about the set screws holding the rotor in place on the prop shaft, I wonder if it is worth it. Would be interested in what other PYI users do. I did replace the entire unit last winter; at full engine RPM I had noticed water spraying out between the rotor and the carbon flange, perhaps because the thrust of the prop pushed the shaft forward until the rotor did not make good contact with the flange. When I unclamped the rotor and slid it forward to inspect, the bellows was very stiff and there were some small pits in the carbon and the rotor surfaces. PYI recommended replacing the entire unit, which I did, and it has worked fine this summer. But it had worked flawlessly for the 8 years I owned the boat, and looked like it had been installed well before that, without doing anything to winterize it - just checking to make sure it was not leaking at the beginning of each season. So what's the feeling about following PS's suggestion? Eric Frank Cat's Paw CC 35 Mk II Mattapoisett, MA ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
