Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

r held the wheel to keep the boat in a straight line until the 
> > helmsman was back in place. So I think superior crew work and coordination, 
> > and probably more practice during the LV Cup races, was the winning margin 
> > for the Kiwis.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Pretty similar to the J Class or 12 meter boats – just about 4 or 5 
> > times faster.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Three of us on the list went out into the sound to watch the J 
> > Class races in Bermuda. And I’ll admit that it was probably my most 
> > favorite part of the trip. We are all familiar with the groaning of a 
> > loaded jib sheet when you are grinding in those last few inches. Well, on a 
> > J class the winch is about 4 feet tall and the sheet is an inch or more in 
> > diameter. And the groaning of the winch was loud enough the be heard from 
> > my boat 100 or more yards away. The J boats are romantic – majestic even – 
> > but one of them blew out a spinnaker just after rounding the windward mark 
> > we were near – and the spin that exploded probably cost $50 0r $60K.  
> > “Real” sailors can only fantasize about sailing one. Hull speed on my boat 
> > is a bit over 7 knots – on a J class about 40% more. Romantic as it is, J 
> > class or 12 meter racing is basically a very expensive, though sexy and 
> > more closely competitive, version of the beer can racing we all do.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE 
> > options: a Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau announced 
> > it planned to build, an A Cat (think 40%  scale AC catamaran, 20+ knots in 
> > 12 knots of wind, and a race ready used one can be had for about 20K), 
> > whatever the new maker calls the Gunboat G4 (though a Gunboat 55 or 60 
> > might be cool if I ever win big in the lottery). Those boats are just too 
> > athletic for a fat 68 year old cruiser, and take too much practice and crew 
> > work for racing in the occasional charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To 
> > each his own”.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the 
> > skills needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Rick Brass
> > 
> > Washington, NC
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> > Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
> > To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com ' 
> >  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Cc: Della Barba, Joe  
> > mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely 
> > different universe. Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not 
> > resemble what we think of as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all 
> > the other reasons, the traditional AC race was between boats that were very 
> > close in speed. Absolutely superb tactics and boat handling were required 
> > to keep ahead of the other boat. It was pretty rare for there to be enough 
> > speed difference for a good crew to lose to an average one.  6.9 knots 
> > losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 knot boat is just one mistake 
> > away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can still crash but it isn’t at 
> > all the same.
> > 
> > Joe
> > 
> > Coquina
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > 
 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

s loud enough the be heard from my boat 100 or more
> yards away. The J boats are romantic – majestic even – but one of them blew
> out a spinnaker just after rounding the windward mark we were near – and
> the spin that exploded probably cost $50 0r $60K.  “Real” sailors can only
> fantasize about sailing one. Hull speed on my boat is a bit over 7 knots –
> on a J class about 40% more. Romantic as it is, J class or 12 meter racing
> is basically a very expensive, though sexy and more closely competitive,
> version of the beer can racing we all do.
>
>
>
> Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE
> options: a Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau announced
> it planned to build, an A Cat (think 40%  scale AC catamaran, 20+ knots in
> 12 knots of wind, and a race ready used one can be had for about 20K),
> whatever the new maker calls the Gunboat G4 (though a Gunboat 55 or 60
> might be cool if I ever win big in the lottery). Those boats are just too
> athletic for a fat 68 year old cruiser, and take too much practice and crew
> work for racing in the occasional charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To
> each his own”.
>
>
>
> The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the skills
> needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant.
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Della Barba, Joe via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
> *To:* 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
> 
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe  
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats
>
>
>
> Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different
> universe. Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble
> what we think of as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other
> reasons, the traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in
> speed. Absolutely superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep
> ahead of the other boat. It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed
> difference for a good crew to lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to
> 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 knot boat is just one mistake away from
> losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can still crash but it isn’t at all the
> same.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Canada's Cup
Using one design boats changes the race entirely. It tests/compares crew work 
but fails to encourage new boat designs and innovation.

Check out "Evergreen", a C design which tested a jogging centerboard against 
a fixed keel in the 1978 race and won. Maybe Rob will write about it's quirky 
design and respond as to why that boat did so well and if that centerboard 
design idea was replicated.

Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C 34R


> On January 30, 2019 at 7:45 AM Colin Flock via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Canada’s cup is hosted by RCYC.  The next three will be in  Melges IC37’s 
> starting in 2020.  
> 
> See the link below.  
> http://www.canadianyachting.ca/news-and-events/current/4296-rcyc-launches-new-canada-s-cup-program
> 
> On Jan 29, 2019, at 21:53, schiller < schil...@bloomingdalecom.net 
> mailto:schil...@bloomingdalecom.net > wrote:
> 
> 
> > > Rob,
> > 
> > Where is the Canada Cup held?  I would definitely follow it given 
> > the chance.  There has to be some press coverage to generate interest.  I 
> > always follow the Chi-Mac race and have competed in several Queen's Cup 
> > (Milwaukee to St. Joe/Grand Haven/South Haven/Muskegon) and Clipper Cup 
> > (Muskegon to Port Washington) but these are straight drag races with a 
> > couple races not even requiring a tack.
> > 
> > Neil Schiller
> > 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> > Whitehall, Michigan
> > WLYC
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

 if I ever win big in the 
lottery). Those boats are just too athletic for a fat 68 year old 
cruiser, and take too much practice and crew work for racing in the 
occasional charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To each his own”.


The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the 
skills needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant.


Rick Brass

Washington, NC

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List

*Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
*Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different 
universe. Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not 
resemble what we think of as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among 
all the other reasons, the traditional AC race was between boats that 
were very close in speed. Absolutely superb tactics and boat handling 
were required to keep ahead of the other boat. It was pretty rare for 
there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to lose to an 
average one. 6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 knot 
boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you 
can still crash but it isn’t at all the same.


Joe

Coquina


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Colin Flock via CnC-List]

Canada’s cup is hosted by RCYC.  The next three will be in Melges IC37’s 
starting in 2020.  

See the link below. 
http://www.canadianyachting.ca/news-and-events/current/4296-rcyc-launches-new-canada-s-cup-program

> On Jan 29, 2019, at 21:53, schiller  wrote:
> 
> Rob,
> 
> Where is the Canada Cup held?  I would definitely follow it given the chance. 
>  There has to be some press coverage to generate interest.  I always follow 
> the Chi-Mac race and have competed in several Queen's Cup (Milwaukee to St. 
> Joe/Grand Haven/South Haven/Muskegon) and Clipper Cup (Muskegon to Port 
> Washington) but these are straight drag races with a couple races not even 
> requiring a tack.
> 
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
> 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[schiller via CnC-List]

Rob,

Where is the Canada Cup held?  I would definitely follow it given the 
chance.  There has to be some press coverage to generate interest.  I 
always follow the Chi-Mac race and have competed in several Queen's Cup 
(Milwaukee to St. Joe/Grand Haven/South Haven/Muskegon) and Clipper Cup 
(Muskegon to Port Washington) but these are straight drag races with a 
couple races not even requiring a tack.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 1/29/2019 10:03 AM, Rob Ball via CnC-List wrote:


Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . 
. . . .


I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For 
those not familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s 
Cup.  One Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between 
one American Club and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar 
history also . . . I was involved three times.


Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they 
are very similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection 
series. Both sent their candidate to the match race series.  It was 
EXACTLY what we all say we want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . 
. . I thought – Oh boy, this will show how popular this approach 
really is  . .


And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential 
groundswell of interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .


So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

Cheers, /Rob Ball/

Email:r...@edsonintl.com 


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[schiller via CnC-List]

ht be cool if I ever win big in the 
lottery). Those boats are just too athletic for a fat 68 year old 
cruiser, and take too much practice and crew work for racing in the 
occasional charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To each his own”.


The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the 
skills needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant.


Rick Brass

Washington, NC

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List

*Sent:* Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
*To:* 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
*Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different 
universe. Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not 
resemble what we think of as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among 
all the other reasons, the traditional AC race was between boats that 
were very close in speed. Absolutely superb tactics and boat handling 
were required to keep ahead of the other boat. It was pretty rare for 
there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to lose to an 
average one. 6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 knot 
boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you 
can still crash but it isn’t at all the same.


Joe

Coquina


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I don’t think there is any question that the recent Americas Cup competitions, 
and the AC45 race series around the world, has exposed a lot of non-sailors to 
sailboat racing – even if they’re not “real”sailboats. Probably similar to the 
exposure NASCAR racing gets vs hobby stock cars racing on the dirt track just 
outside of town.

 

And I’ve got to admit that watching the AC75 fly by 200 yards or so away  (and 
finish a couple hundred feet out from the bleachers) in the Goslings Lounge – 
while sipping a Dark and Stormy and enjoying lunch – was a lot more enjoyable 
than watching Dennis Conner get his butt kicked a few mile offshore on a small 
screen TV when I was in San Diego in the 80s. The new boats do lend themselves 
to an exciting racing format.

 

BTW, is Conner the leader of the Stars & Stripes syndicate challenging in the 
next Americas Cup?

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rob Ball via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:04 AM
To: Della Barba, Joe ; 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 

Cc: Rob Ball 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . . .

I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For those not 
familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  One 
Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American Club 
and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was involved 
three times.

Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are very 
similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  Both sent 
their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we all say we 
want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh boy, this will 
show how popular this approach really is  . .

And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential groundswell of 
interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .

So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

 

Cheers,  Rob Ball

Email:  <mailto:a...@edsonintl.com> r...@edsonintl.com

 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Joe;

 

I do agree that the foiling cats were radically different than the conventional 
sailboats we are accustomed to. And the crew work and training is more 
demanding than on a monohull. The J class boats have hugely higher sheet 
loadings and hardware that is light years bigger than what we have on your 35 
or my 38, but the boat itself is just bigger and not much faster. Whether a J 
class or a catamaran, the sailing is still pretty much the same as on one of 
our boats.

 

Did you realize that Oracle was actually the faster boat in the AC finals in 
Bermuda? Her average top speed was a smidgen over 41 knots, while the Kiwi boat 
was between 40.5 and 41. Which is, on the whole, pretty cool since none of the 
races was run in over about 12 knots of wind.

 

So why did Oracle lose? Certainly there were slight difference in the foils, 
the soft headsails, and the leg powered hydraulics of the Kiwis gave a lot more 
consistent power for foils and trimmers than the coffee grinders on Oracle. But 
from watching the races on the Jumbo Tron at the AC pavilion, I’m pretty much 
convinced the margin was crew practice and work load management.

 

The skipper  of Oracle was driving. He was calling tactics. He was trimming the 
foils. He had a really cool steering wheel designed by BMW to control all that, 
plus a suite of gauges and Heads-Up displays that would probably rival an F18 
fighter/bomber. In one race Oracle lost because, when they tacked the boat, 
they went about 15’ outside the boundary of the race course and had to do a 
360. (The promo stuff in the BMW display area talked about how the boat positon 
on the race course and other tactical data was updated like 1000 times per 
minute. How could you run outside the boundary?) In pretty much every race they 
fell off the foils once or twice while tacking and jibing. And every time they 
fell off the foils (and dropped to about 9 knots) the Kiwis picked up a couple 
of hundred yards before Oracle got back up to speed. Spithill was just flat too 
busy and had too many tasks to manage.

 

The Kiwis almost never fell off the foils. The race commentators thought the 
bicycle powered hydraulics had something to do with it because trimming and 
changing foils was faster and perhaps had more reserve pressure in the 
accumulators. But the skipper of the Kiwi boat was calling tactics and trimming 
the foils. The helmsman was doing only that – driving. Someone else was 
trimming the main. When the helmsman ran to the cockpit on the other side of 
the boat a few seconds before each tack or jibe, the skipper held the wheel to 
keep the boat in a straight line until the helmsman was back in place. So I 
think superior crew work and coordination, and probably more practice during 
the LV Cup races, was the winning margin for the Kiwis.

 

Pretty similar to the J Class or 12 meter boats – just about 4 or 5 times 
faster.

 

Three of us on the list went out into the sound to watch the J Class races in 
Bermuda. And I’ll admit that it was probably my most favorite part of the trip. 
We are all familiar with the groaning of a loaded jib sheet when you are 
grinding in those last few inches. Well, on a J class the winch is about 4 feet 
tall and the sheet is an inch or more in diameter. And the groaning of the 
winch was loud enough the be heard from my boat 100 or more yards away. The J 
boats are romantic – majestic even – but one of them blew out a spinnaker just 
after rounding the windward mark we were near – and the spin that exploded 
probably cost $50 0r $60K.  “Real” sailors can only fantasize about sailing 
one. Hull speed on my boat is a bit over 7 knots – on a J class about 40% more. 
Romantic as it is, J class or 12 meter racing is basically a very expensive, 
though sexy and more closely competitive, version of the beer can racing we all 
do.

 

Now I don’t think I would go out and buy a foiling boat. There ARE options: a 
Moth, one of the mid-20’ foiling monohulls Benneteau announced it planned to 
build, an A Cat (think 40%  scale AC catamaran, 20+ knots in 12 knots of wind, 
and a race ready used one can be had for about 20K), whatever the new maker 
calls the Gunboat G4 (though a Gunboat 55 or 60 might be cool if I ever win big 
in the lottery). Those boats are just too athletic for a fat 68 year old 
cruiser, and take too much practice and crew work for racing in the occasional 
charity regatta.  As Charlie said, “To each his own”.

 

The boats are all different, but the tactics, the teamwork, and the skills 
needed to be successful at sailing are pretty constant. 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

+1 on that.

I did not travel to see AC races (like Chuck did), but the catamaran races were 
an exciting spectator sport and I had many friends who never sail before watch 
them with me and got excited in the process.

I guess you cannot argue about tastes.

I do follow Formula 1 and WRC, even if what I ever raced (and even less what I 
drive) has very little to do with these vehicles.

I believe that the speed is secondary; the thrill of racing is what counts.

just my 2c

Marek

1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:19
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Joe,
Having seen J Class boats, 12meter boats, IAC class, non-foiling and foiling AC 
catamarans race, I can attest to the excitement that ALL of them present to 
spectators when watching in person.  I don’t think it truly matters if you 
thought you could put yourself on board as a participant.  Regardless of the 
class yacht being used, I still view the America’s Cup as my all time favorite 
competition in sports.

   I grew up fantasizing about the 12 meters, followed the race coverage in the 
New York Times, and thought that the yacht Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle 
of yacht design.  Mind you, I was sailing Sunfish and FJ dinghies at the time.  
As the IAC boats came to pass, I still had the passion to follow the Cup races 
and took a special trip to San Diego right while all the yacht syndicates from 
Japan, Russia, Italy, New Zeeland, and Australia prepared for the regatta.  So 
cool!  When the Cup finally returned to the US, I took my whole family to San 
Francisco to watch the AC72 Cats fly up and down the bay at breathtaking 
speeds.  It was a thrill to see them in action and Yes, there were tacking 
duels and thrilling crosses.  I didn’t get down to Bermuda, but I did see the 
smaller AC Cats race in Newport, and thought the fleet racing was spectacular.  
So maybe I will never sail on a foiler, but after watching several new Cup 
races, my  17 year old son is absolutely psyched up to sail on one of the new 
UFO 10’ foiling cats that our yacht club bought this year for the youth sailing 
program.  He couldn’t be bothered by sailing my Laser, but can’t wait to get 
out on something that flies across the water!  In my mind, that’s what the 
inspiration of the Cup should be.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Well said Rob.

FWIW, Part of me would love to see the J class racing or the older gaffer 
models like Columbia or Reliance which had crews of 75 guys.
Another part of me is fascinated by the new technology developed recently with 
the foiling boats and I know if Nat Herreshoff was alive he'd be designing 
foilers and using carbon fiber cause he was cutting edge.

I see the Americas Cup as another sport apart from sailing. It's like 
windsurfing in that way, which I enjoy very much. They have sails and get their 
power from the wind, but it's nothing like sitdown sailing at 6 knots. It's a 
different sport entirely. I will be following the races closely, especially if 
they cover it with so many onboard cameras and drones. It's great fun to watch.

Chuck, Resolute C 34R, Chesapeake Bay


> On January 29, 2019 at 10:03 AM Rob Ball via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . 
> . .
> 
> I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For 
> those not familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  
> One Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American 
> Club and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was 
> involved three times.
> 
> Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are 
> very similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  
> Both sent their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we 
> all say we want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh 
> boy, this will show how popular this approach really is  . .
> 
> And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential 
> groundswell of interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .
> 
> So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,  Rob Ball
> 
> Email: r...@edsonintl.com mailto:a...@edsonintl.com 
> 
>  
> 
 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Joe,

Having seen J Class boats, 12meter boats, IAC class, non-foiling and foiling AC 
catamarans race, I can attest to the excitement that ALL of them present to 
spectators when watching in person.  I don’t think it truly matters if you 
thought you could put yourself on board as a participant.  Regardless of the 
class yacht being used, I still view the America’s Cup as my all time favorite 
competition in sports.

 

   I grew up fantasizing about the 12 meters, followed the race coverage in the 
New York Times, and thought that the yacht Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle 
of yacht design.  Mind you, I was sailing Sunfish and FJ dinghies at the time.  
As the IAC boats came to pass, I still had the passion to follow the Cup races 
and took a special trip to San Diego right while all the yacht syndicates from 
Japan, Russia, Italy, New Zeeland, and Australia prepared for the regatta.  So 
cool!  When the Cup finally returned to the US, I took my whole family to San 
Francisco to watch the AC72 Cats fly up and down the bay at breathtaking 
speeds.  It was a thrill to see them in action and Yes, there were tacking 
duels and thrilling crosses.  I didn’t get down to Bermuda, but I did see the 
smaller AC Cats race in Newport, and thought the fleet racing was spectacular.  
So maybe I will never sail on a foiler, but after watching several new Cup 
races, my  17 year old son is absolutely psyched up to sail on one of the new 
UFO 10’ foiling cats that our yacht club bought this year for the youth sailing 
program.  He couldn’t be bothered by sailing my Laser, but can’t wait to get 
out on something that flies across the water!  In my mind, that’s what the 
inspiration of the Cup should be.   

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic 

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:11 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.

Joe

Coquina

 

From: CnC-List [ <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years

Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

Many of us would like to see the America’s Cup in ‘real’ sailboats  . . . . .
I was very interested to watch the Canada’s Cup just last year.  For those not 
familiar it is very much a junior version of The America’s Cup.  One 
Challenging Yacht club vs the holder of the trophy – between one American Club 
and one Canadian club.  It has a very similar history also . . . I was involved 
three times.
Anyway this most recent event went back and used Eight Meters (they are very 
similar in concept to J_Class).  Both sides had a selection series.  Both sent 
their candidate to the match race series.  It was EXACTLY what we all say we 
want and what the AC should be  . . . . . . . . I thought – Oh boy, this will 
show how popular this approach really is  . .
And . . . . I’ve heard NO Reaction from anywhere of a potential groundswell of 
interest to make AC return to this type of event . . .
So, I think we are fooling ourselves . . .

Cheers,  Rob Ball
Email: r...@edsonintl.com

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Neil Andersen via CnC-List]

I’m with Joe, not the same.

I like the races where every boat is the same and the winner is the best crew.  
That’s true racing.  Skill versus Technology.

Neil Andersen
1982 C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Della Barba, Joe 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:49 AM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Cc: Della Barba, Joe
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

To me it is like racing horses around a track vs. racing motorcycles,. They are 
both sport for sure, but they are not the SAME sport. I agree about iceboating. 
IIRC, iceboats were going over 100 knots when nothing else on the planet could 
go that fast.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind.

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

To me it is like racing horses around a track vs. racing motorcycles,. They are 
both sport for sure, but they are not the SAME sport. I agree about iceboating. 
IIRC, iceboats were going over 100 knots when nothing else on the planet could 
go that fast.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind.

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe<mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

The foil boats are more like iceboating.  At those kinds of speeds, it’s all 
about apparent wind. 

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:10 AM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.

Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.

Joe

Coquina

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 

I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years

Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI 




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Not really the same thing. Going from J-Class to 12s was needed because no one 
could afford to race a J anymore. Both of them sail pretty much like any other 
boat. If you know how to sail at all, you could sail either one more or less. 
If you raced at all, everything they did was like something you did every day. 
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t grab people from a C rendezvous and put 
them on a 12 and get one around a race course in a reasonable fashion. J class 
multi-ton sheet loads are perhaps another story, but still a tack is a tack and 
port still has to duck starboard.
Foiling cats running around at 30-50 knots are an entirely different universe. 
Racing them is a sport of some kind, but it does not resemble what we think of 
as sailboat racing whatsoever to me. Among all the other reasons, the 
traditional AC race was between boats that were very close in speed. Absolutely 
superb tactics and boat handling were required to keep ahead of the other boat. 
It was pretty rare for there to be enough speed difference for a good crew to 
lose to an average one.  6.9 knots losing to 7.1 knots is one thing, the 7.1 
knot boat is just one mistake away from losing. 45 vs. 55 knots, well you can 
still crash but it isn’t at all the same.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Don Kern via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
Cc: Don Kern
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats


I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years
Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

The AC boats of the 1980’s showed us just what difference keel could make.
Keels were so secret they were shrouded with tarps. Now that was really
protecting secrecy, right?  Anyway keels make a difference.  My 35 MKII
could benefit from more ballast. A keel shoe or bulb would be nice but i
have lots of fun and feel safe without it.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:37 PM dwight veinot  wrote:

> Alianna is well equipped with a good sail inventory and nice diesel and
> prop and nice creature comforts below but you have a very special 35MKII
> which i believe is an improvement on mine.  Be happy and keep her
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 6:02 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps but not all 'new' things last or displace others- Edsels, New
>> Coke, push button transmissions in cars, self-cleaning bathrooms, are a few
>> that come to mind.
>>
>> OTOH, the foiling cats are great fun to watch in anticipation of a crash
>> of some sort--sort of like Formula-1 or NASCAR. However, IMHO I doubt many
>> sailors, even racers, would actually try to 'sail' a foiler, let alone buy
>> one!
>>
>> But to each his own!
>>
>> Charlie Nelson
>> Water Phantom
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Don Kern via CnC-List 
>> To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>> Cc: Don Kern 
>> Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2019 4:44 pm
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats
>>
>> I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats
>> went to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from
>> the 12 meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying"
>> own Fireball for 39 years
>> Don Kern
>> Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
>> Fireball C Mk2
>> Bristol, RI
>>
>> On 1/28/2019 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> I too like the 12 meters, but I would like the cup to revert to J-Class
>> boats even more.
>> Catamarans with wing sails just don’t do anything for me.
>> (thread creep – when I was at flight school someone combined an old Hobie
>> Cat and a wing from the aircraft junkyard into an early version of one of
>> these LOL )
>>
>> Joe
>> Coquina
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *schiller via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:55 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* schiller
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List AC75 boats
>>
>> The Parker Hannifin Division that I retired from was making aircraft
>> grade axial piston pumps for the last AC boats.  We provided electric motor
>> pumps for the practice boats but the race boats are mechanically driven.
>> The hydraulics were for the foils and winches.  The grinders are actually
>> driving the two speed pumps.a  I retired just before we delivered the race
>> units.
>>
>> The previous division that I worked for also made Electro Hydraulic Servo
>> Valves (EHSV) for formula 1 race cars to control suspension and fuel
>> delivery.
>>
>> Interesting work but I still prefer the old 12 meters and actually having
>> to sail the boat.
>>
>> Neil Schiller
>> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
>> Whitehall, Michigan
>> WLYC
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Alianna is well equipped with a good sail inventory and nice diesel and
prop and nice creature comforts below but you have a very special 35MKII
which i believe is an improvement on mine.  Be happy and keep her

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 6:02 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Perhaps but not all 'new' things last or displace others- Edsels, New
> Coke, push button transmissions in cars, self-cleaning bathrooms, are a few
> that come to mind.
>
> OTOH, the foiling cats are great fun to watch in anticipation of a crash
> of some sort--sort of like Formula-1 or NASCAR. However, IMHO I doubt many
> sailors, even racers, would actually try to 'sail' a foiler, let alone buy
> one!
>
> But to each his own!
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Don Kern via CnC-List 
> To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> Cc: Don Kern 
> Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2019 4:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats
>
> I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats
> went to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from
> the 12 meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying"
> own Fireball for 39 years
> Don Kern
> Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
> Fireball C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
> On 1/28/2019 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I too like the 12 meters, but I would like the cup to revert to J-Class
> boats even more.
> Catamarans with wing sails just don’t do anything for me.
> (thread creep – when I was at flight school someone combined an old Hobie
> Cat and a wing from the aircraft junkyard into an early version of one of
> these LOL )
>
> Joe
> Coquina
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *schiller via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:55 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* schiller
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List AC75 boats
>
> The Parker Hannifin Division that I retired from was making aircraft grade
> axial piston pumps for the last AC boats.  We provided electric motor pumps
> for the practice boats but the race boats are mechanically driven.  The
> hydraulics were for the foils and winches.  The grinders are actually
> driving the two speed pumps.a  I retired just before we delivered the race
> units.
>
> The previous division that I worked for also made Electro Hydraulic Servo
> Valves (EHSV) for formula 1 race cars to control suspension and fuel
> delivery.
>
> Interesting work but I still prefer the old 12 meters and actually having
> to sail the boat.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Perhaps but not all 'new' things last or displace others- Edsels, New Coke, 
push button transmissions in cars, self-cleaning bathrooms, are a few that come 
to mind.
OTOH, the foiling cats are great fun to watch in anticipation of a crash of 
some sort--sort of like Formula-1 or NASCAR. However, IMHO I doubt many 
sailors, even racers, would actually try to 'sail' a foiler, let alone buy one!
But to each his own!

Charlie NelsonWater Phantom


-Original Message-
From: Don Kern via CnC-List 
To: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Cc: Don Kern 
Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2019 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

 I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats went 
to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went from the 12 
meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just saying" own 
Fireball for 39 years Don Kern
 Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
 Fireball C Mk2
 Bristol, RI 
  On 1/28/2019 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
#yiv9504981497 #yiv9504981497 -- _filtered #yiv9504981497 
{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9504981497 
{font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9504981497 
{font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #yiv9504981497 
#yiv9504981497 p.yiv9504981497MsoNormal, #yiv9504981497 
li.yiv9504981497MsoNormal, #yiv9504981497 div.yiv9504981497MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;color:black;}
 #yiv9504981497 a:link, #yiv9504981497 span.yiv9504981497MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv9504981497 a:visited, 
#yiv9504981497 span.yiv9504981497MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv9504981497 pre 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;} #yiv9504981497 
span.yiv9504981497HTMLPreformattedChar {color:black;} #yiv9504981497 
span.yiv9504981497EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv9504981497 
.yiv9504981497MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv9504981497 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv9504981497 div.yiv9504981497WordSection1 
{} #yiv9504981497  I too like the 12 meters, but I would like the cup to revert 
to J-Class boats even more. Catamarans with wing sails just don’t do anything 
for me. (thread creep – when I was at flight school someone combined an old 
Hobie Cat and a wing from the aircraft junkyard into an early version of one of 
these LOL )    Joe Coquina      From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller via CnC-List
 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:55 PM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: schiller
 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List AC75 boats  The Parker Hannifin Division 
that I retired from was making aircraft grade axial piston pumps for the last 
AC boats.  We provided electric motor pumps for the practice boats but the race 
boats are mechanically driven.  The hydraulics were for the foils and winches.  
The grinders are actually driving the two speed pumps.a  I retired just before 
we delivered the race units.
 
 The previous division that I worked for also made Electro Hydraulic Servo 
Valves (EHSV) for formula 1 race cars to control suspension and fuel delivery.
 
 Interesting work but I still prefer the old 12 meters and actually having to 
sail the boat.
 
 Neil Schiller
 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
 Whitehall, Michigan
 WLYC  
  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

I bet that is similar to what was said 1900's when the America Cup boats 
went to cross cut sails and the Marconi rig. Then again when they went 
from the 12 meters to the IACC boats, never mind the foiling cats. "just 
saying" own Fireball for 39 years


Don Kern
Docent, Herreshoff Marine Museum
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI


On 1/28/2019 7:27 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


I too like the 12 meters, but I would like the cup to revert to 
J-Class boats even more.


Catamarans with wing sails just don’t do anything for me.

(thread creep – when I was at flight school someone combined an old 
Hobie Cat and a wing from the aircraft junkyard into an early version 
of one of these LOL )


Joe

Coquina

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*schiller via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:55 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* schiller
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List AC75 boats

The Parker Hannifin Division that I retired from was making aircraft 
grade axial piston pumps for the last AC boats.  We provided electric 
motor pumps for the practice boats but the race boats are mechanically 
driven.  The hydraulics were for the foils and winches.  The grinders 
are actually driving the two speed pumps.a  I retired just before we 
delivered the race units.


The previous division that I worked for also made Electro Hydraulic 
Servo Valves (EHSV) for formula 1 race cars to control suspension and 
fuel delivery.


Interesting work but I still prefer the old 12 meters and actually 
having to sail the boat.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: AC75 boats

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I too like the 12 meters, but I would like the cup to revert to J-Class boats 
even more.
Catamarans with wing sails just don’t do anything for me.
(thread creep – when I was at flight school someone combined an old Hobie Cat 
and a wing from the aircraft junkyard into an early version of one of these LOL 
)

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: schiller
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List AC75 boats

The Parker Hannifin Division that I retired from was making aircraft grade 
axial piston pumps for the last AC boats.  We provided electric motor pumps for 
the practice boats but the race boats are mechanically driven.  The hydraulics 
were for the foils and winches.  The grinders are actually driving the two 
speed pumps.a  I retired just before we delivered the race units.

The previous division that I worked for also made Electro Hydraulic Servo 
Valves (EHSV) for formula 1 race cars to control suspension and fuel delivery.

Interesting work but I still prefer the old 12 meters and actually having to 
sail the boat.

Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray