Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-17 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
Dave,

when you go buying these toggles, make sure that you select the right size. 
They come in different length. It might be prudent to buy them in pairs. Guess 
how I know.

Marek

From: David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 22:09
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Mike and Pete get the points for this one if we are keeping score.  I had to 
replace one turnbuckle (fell in the river while trying to attach with the 
threads at max) and I missed the fact that there was supposed to be a toggle on 
the end.  That extra 3” might be the difference.  I am not sure it will give me 
enough to make attachment easy, but it will certainly help.  I will report back 
when I have installed the toggles.  Dave


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

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Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-16 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
Mike and Pete get the points for this one if we are keeping score.  I had to 
replace one turnbuckle (fell in the river while trying to attach with the 
threads at max) and I missed the fact that there was supposed to be a toggle on 
the end.  That extra 3” might be the difference.  I am not sure it will give me 
enough to make attachment easy, but it will certainly help.  I will report back 
when I have installed the toggles.  Dave


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread Michael Brown via CnC-List 
+1 for checking the clearance between the aft of the mast and the mast collar.
If the forestay is loose the top of the mast may be slightly forward.

Going by mast rake is difficult unless the boat is floating to spec. You can 
take an
initial reading with a digital level by comparing something that may be level 
such
as the coamings and the mast.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 12:40:18 + 

From: "Hoyt, Mike"  


Hi Dave 
 
Is it possible that there is a mast step adjustment and the step has been moved 
aft further than desired? 
 
Have you tried running the main halyard aft and tightening the halyard?  
Attaching it to an aft cleat or something very solid and then using the halyard 
winch should help bring mast tip back.  I am not very familiar with the rig on 
the 34+ but am assuming that like most of the pre Tartan C the spreaders are 
not swept back.  Also .. a very dumb question .. do you have any jib or spin 
halyards attached to any point forward of the mast? 
 
Mike 
Persistence 
Halifax, NS 
 
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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread robert via CnC-List 

David:

Something is wrong.can't tell you what without seeing it but 
definitely something is wrong.  I have a split back stay and I attach 
mine every Spring single handed...I don't need a second pair of hands, I 
don't need to attach the main halyard to crank the mast back.the 
forestay and shrouds are attached and lastly I simply pin the split back 
stay and tension the two turnbucles and attach the adjuster lastly.


I think getting a rigger to investigate is a logical thing to do. Let's 
us know the outcome.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-12 9:04 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
Dear listers- Thanks for all the advice and observations.  I actually 
worked on it for a few hours yesterday afternoon and now I really 
don’t know what is going on.  I checked the mast with no backstay on 
and it still showed a few inches of rake.  The forestay had a 
significant arc to it and felt very loose.  I had previously taken 
most of the tension off the shrouds.  I tried to pull one side of the 
split backstay and could not pull it far enough to pin it.  I don’t 
know how you could possibly do this with the adjuster attached as 
there is no way to get it out of the way and near a neutral position 
until both backstays are attached- so I took it off.  Then I let off 
the mainsheet and vang, attached the halyard to the end of the boom 
and cranked the boom down with the winch.  I looked at the forestay 
and it was still very slack.  I loosened the shrouds more, but no 
change.  I still could not pull it down enough to attach one side, let 
alone both.  So I rigged a mini block and tackle between the U bolt 
and the turnbuckle and was able to pull it down enough and hold it 
while I got the pin in.  With another person there leaning on the 
wire, I might have been able to do it without the block and tackle, 
but since the boat is in the water, it is hard to get in position to 
pull on the wire and put the pin in at the same time.  I ran out of 
time to try the other side, but it seems like something is not right 
with the rig if it is this hard.  I have not changed anything related 
to this since I bought the boat, so I find this very confusing.  I 
doubt C designed it to be this hard and there would be no reason to 
since you could just make the backstay longer.  One other thing for 
those who have other C designs.  Unlike my previous 34, there are no 
deck level wood blocks to adjust mast rake, nor any adjustment on the 
mast foot.  The mast goes through a hole in the deck that is the size 
of the mast, so no rake adjustment there.
Anyway, I decided to contact a local rigger I have worked with to see 
if he can help figure out what is going on.  I will report back when 
we have it sorted out.  Thanks- Dave


On May 11, 2017, at 4:59 PM, robert > wrote:


David:

When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like 
them, no adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one 
on the inside of the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn 
buckle equally.


When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are 
loosened off approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no 
problem.


I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the 
Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on 
and tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay 
pinned.


I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I 
don't use a halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast 
step, blocked at the base, the mast shimed in the collar, the 
forestay on, the shrouds tensioned, my mast isn't going anywhere.  A 
halyard is always added protection but I will never use one.


Trusting this helps.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:
They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the 
turnbuckle and they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I 
thought Josh’s idea to take tension off the backstay with the 
halyard makes a lot of sense.  I will take a look at that today.  I 
know the backstay adjuster was mostly loose as I had pushed it up 
with a pole this spring when I was playing with shroud adjustment.
1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as 
it will go without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be 
slack to put the pins back in with the turnbuckles loose but 
attached without taking tension off with the halyard as Josh suggested?
2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the 
backstay detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the 
deck, forestay and shrouds)?

Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



On May 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, robert > wrote:


David:

My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an 
adjuster.I

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Or perhaps toggles?  Either on forestay or backstay?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Pete 
Shelquist via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 10:10 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Pete Shelquist
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Or are you missing any shackles on the backstay that could have been used as 
spacers?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 7:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com<mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Hi Dave

Is it possible that there is a mast step adjustment and the step has been moved 
aft further than desired?

Have you tried running the main halyard aft and tightening the halyard?  
Attaching it to an aft cleat or something very solid and then using the halyard 
winch should help bring mast tip back.  I am not very familiar with the rig on 
the 34+ but am assuming that like most of the pre Tartan C the spreaders are 
not swept back.  Also .. a very dumb question .. do you have any jib or spin 
halyards attached to any point forward of the mast?

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 9:05 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Dear listers- Thanks for all the advice and observations.  I actually worked on 
it for a few hours yesterday afternoon and now I really don't know what is 
going on.  I checked the mast with no backstay on and it still showed a few 
inches of rake.  The forestay had a significant arc to it and felt very loose.  
I had previously taken most of the tension off the shrouds.  I tried to pull 
one side of the split backstay and could not pull it far enough to pin it.  I 
don't know how you could possibly do this with the adjuster attached as there 
is no way to get it out of the way and near a neutral position until both 
backstays are attached- so I took it off.  Then I let off the mainsheet and 
vang, attached the halyard to the end of the boom and cranked the boom down 
with the winch.  I looked at the forestay and it was still very slack.  I 
loosened the shrouds more, but no change.  I still could not pull it down 
enough to attach one side, let alone both.  So I rigged a mini block and tackle 
between the U bolt and the turnbuckle and was able to pull it down enough and 
hold it while I got the pin in.  With another person there leaning on the wire, 
I might have been able to do it without the block and tackle, but since the 
boat is in the water, it is hard to get in position to pull on the wire and put 
the pin in at the same time.  I ran out of time to try the other side, but it 
seems like something is not right with the rig if it is this hard.  I have not 
changed anything related to this since I bought the boat, so I find this very 
confusing.  I doubt C designed it to be this hard and there would be no 
reason to since you could just make the backstay longer.  One other thing for 
those who have other C designs.  Unlike my previous 34, there are no deck 
level wood blocks to adjust mast rake, nor any adjustment on the mast foot.  
The mast goes through a hole in the deck that is the size of the mast, so no 
rake adjustment there.
Anyway, I decided to contact a local rigger I have worked with to see if he can 
help figure out what is going on.  I will report back when we have it sorted 
out.  Thanks- Dave

On May 11, 2017, at 4:59 PM, robert 
<robertabb...@eastlink.ca<mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>> wrote:

David:

When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like them, no 
adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one on the inside of 
the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn buckle equally.

When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are loosened off 
approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no problem.

I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the 
Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on and 
tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay pinned.

I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I don't use a 
halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast step, blocked at the base, 
the mast shimed in the collar, the forestay on, the shrouds tensioned, my mast 
isn't going anywhere.  A halyard is always added protection but I will never 
use one.

Trusting this helps.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C - 84
Halifax, N.S.
On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:
They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle and 
they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh's idea to 
take tension off t

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
Or are you missing any shackles on the backstay that could have been used as
spacers?  

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Hoyt,
Mike via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 7:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

 

Hi Dave

 

Is it possible that there is a mast step adjustment and the step has been
moved aft further than desired?

 

Have you tried running the main halyard aft and tightening the halyard?
Attaching it to an aft cleat or something very solid and then using the
halyard winch should help bring mast tip back.  I am not very familiar with
the rig on the 34+ but am assuming that like most of the pre Tartan C the
spreaders are not swept back.  Also .. a very dumb question .. do you have
any jib or spin halyards attached to any point forward of the mast?

 

Mike

Persistence

Halifax, NS 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David
Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 9:05 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

 

Dear listers- Thanks for all the advice and observations.  I actually worked
on it for a few hours yesterday afternoon and now I really don't know what
is going on.  I checked the mast with no backstay on and it still showed a
few inches of rake.  The forestay had a significant arc to it and felt very
loose.  I had previously taken most of the tension off the shrouds.  I tried
to pull one side of the split backstay and could not pull it far enough to
pin it.  I don't know how you could possibly do this with the adjuster
attached as there is no way to get it out of the way and near a neutral
position until both backstays are attached- so I took it off.  Then I let
off the mainsheet and vang, attached the halyard to the end of the boom and
cranked the boom down with the winch.  I looked at the forestay and it was
still very slack.  I loosened the shrouds more, but no change.  I still
could not pull it down enough to attach one side, let alone both.  So I
rigged a mini block and tackle between the U bolt and the turnbuckle and was
able to pull it down enough and hold it while I got the pin in.  With
another person there leaning on the wire, I might have been able to do it
without the block and tackle, but since the boat is in the water, it is hard
to get in position to pull on the wire and put the pin in at the same time.
I ran out of time to try the other side, but it seems like something is not
right with the rig if it is this hard.  I have not changed anything related
to this since I bought the boat, so I find this very confusing.  I doubt C
designed it to be this hard and there would be no reason to since you could
just make the backstay longer.  One other thing for those who have other C
designs.  Unlike my previous 34, there are no deck level wood blocks to
adjust mast rake, nor any adjustment on the mast foot.  The mast goes
through a hole in the deck that is the size of the mast, so no rake
adjustment there.  

Anyway, I decided to contact a local rigger I have worked with to see if he
can help figure out what is going on.  I will report back when we have it
sorted out.  Thanks- Dave

 

On May 11, 2017, at 4:59 PM, robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca
<mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca> > wrote:

 

David:

When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like them, no
adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one on the inside of
the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn buckle equally.

When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are loosened
off approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no problem.

I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the
Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on and
tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay pinned.

I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I don't use
a halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast step, blocked at the
base, the mast shimed in the collar, the forestay on, the shrouds tensioned,
my mast isn't going anywhere.  A halyard is always added protection but I
will never use one.

Trusting this helps.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C - 84
Halifax, N.S. 



On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:

They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle
and they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh's idea
to take tension off the backstay with the halyard makes a lot of sense.  I
will take a look at that today.  I know the backstay adjuster was mostly
loose as I had pushed it up with a pole this spring when I was playing with
shroud adjustment.  

1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it will
go without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually b

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Hi Dave

Is it possible that there is a mast step adjustment and the step has been moved 
aft further than desired?

Have you tried running the main halyard aft and tightening the halyard?  
Attaching it to an aft cleat or something very solid and then using the halyard 
winch should help bring mast tip back.  I am not very familiar with the rig on 
the 34+ but am assuming that like most of the pre Tartan C the spreaders are 
not swept back.  Also .. a very dumb question .. do you have any jib or spin 
halyards attached to any point forward of the mast?

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 9:05 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Dear listers- Thanks for all the advice and observations.  I actually worked on 
it for a few hours yesterday afternoon and now I really don't know what is 
going on.  I checked the mast with no backstay on and it still showed a few 
inches of rake.  The forestay had a significant arc to it and felt very loose.  
I had previously taken most of the tension off the shrouds.  I tried to pull 
one side of the split backstay and could not pull it far enough to pin it.  I 
don't know how you could possibly do this with the adjuster attached as there 
is no way to get it out of the way and near a neutral position until both 
backstays are attached- so I took it off.  Then I let off the mainsheet and 
vang, attached the halyard to the end of the boom and cranked the boom down 
with the winch.  I looked at the forestay and it was still very slack.  I 
loosened the shrouds more, but no change.  I still could not pull it down 
enough to attach one side, let alone both.  So I rigged a mini block and tackle 
between the U bolt and the turnbuckle and was able to pull it down enough and 
hold it while I got the pin in.  With another person there leaning on the wire, 
I might have been able to do it without the block and tackle, but since the 
boat is in the water, it is hard to get in position to pull on the wire and put 
the pin in at the same time.  I ran out of time to try the other side, but it 
seems like something is not right with the rig if it is this hard.  I have not 
changed anything related to this since I bought the boat, so I find this very 
confusing.  I doubt C designed it to be this hard and there would be no 
reason to since you could just make the backstay longer.  One other thing for 
those who have other C designs.  Unlike my previous 34, there are no deck 
level wood blocks to adjust mast rake, nor any adjustment on the mast foot.  
The mast goes through a hole in the deck that is the size of the mast, so no 
rake adjustment there.
Anyway, I decided to contact a local rigger I have worked with to see if he can 
help figure out what is going on.  I will report back when we have it sorted 
out.  Thanks- Dave

On May 11, 2017, at 4:59 PM, robert 
<robertabb...@eastlink.ca<mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>> wrote:

David:

When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like them, no 
adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one on the inside of 
the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn buckle equally.

When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are loosened off 
approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no problem.

I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the 
Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on and 
tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay pinned.

I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I don't use a 
halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast step, blocked at the base, 
the mast shimed in the collar, the forestay on, the shrouds tensioned, my mast 
isn't going anywhere.  A halyard is always added protection but I will never 
use one.

Trusting this helps.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:
They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle and 
they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh's idea to 
take tension off the backstay with the halyard makes a lot of sense.  I will 
take a look at that today.  I know the backstay adjuster was mostly loose as I 
had pushed it up with a pole this spring when I was playing with shroud 
adjustment.
1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it will go 
without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be slack to put the pins back 
in with the turnbuckles loose but attached without taking tension off with the 
halyard as Josh suggested?
2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the backstay 
detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the deck, forestay and 
shrouds)?
Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London,

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-12 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
Dear listers- Thanks for all the advice and observations.  I actually worked on 
it for a few hours yesterday afternoon and now I really don’t know what is 
going on.  I checked the mast with no backstay on and it still showed a few 
inches of rake.  The forestay had a significant arc to it and felt very loose.  
I had previously taken most of the tension off the shrouds.  I tried to pull 
one side of the split backstay and could not pull it far enough to pin it.  I 
don’t know how you could possibly do this with the adjuster attached as there 
is no way to get it out of the way and near a neutral position until both 
backstays are attached- so I took it off.  Then I let off the mainsheet and 
vang, attached the halyard to the end of the boom and cranked the boom down 
with the winch.  I looked at the forestay and it was still very slack.  I 
loosened the shrouds more, but no change.  I still could not pull it down 
enough to attach one side, let alone both.  So I rigged a mini block and tackle 
between the U bolt and the turnbuckle and was able to pull it down enough and 
hold it while I got the pin in.  With another person there leaning on the wire, 
I might have been able to do it without the block and tackle, but since the 
boat is in the water, it is hard to get in position to pull on the wire and put 
the pin in at the same time.  I ran out of time to try the other side, but it 
seems like something is not right with the rig if it is this hard.  I have not 
changed anything related to this since I bought the boat, so I find this very 
confusing.  I doubt C designed it to be this hard and there would be no 
reason to since you could just make the backstay longer.  One other thing for 
those who have other C designs.  Unlike my previous 34, there are no deck 
level wood blocks to adjust mast rake, nor any adjustment on the mast foot.  
The mast goes through a hole in the deck that is the size of the mast, so no 
rake adjustment there.  
Anyway, I decided to contact a local rigger I have worked with to see if he can 
help figure out what is going on.  I will report back when we have it sorted 
out.  Thanks- Dave

> On May 11, 2017, at 4:59 PM, robert  wrote:
> 
> David:
> 
> When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like them, no 
> adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one on the inside of 
> the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn buckle equally.
> 
> When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are loosened off 
> approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no problem.
> 
> I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the 
> Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on and 
> tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay pinned.
> 
> I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I don't use 
> a halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast step, blocked at the 
> base, the mast shimed in the collar, the forestay on, the shrouds tensioned, 
> my mast isn't going anywhere.  A halyard is always added protection but I 
> will never use one.
> 
> Trusting this helps.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C - 84
> Halifax, N.S. 
> 
> 
> On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:
>> They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle 
>> and they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh’s idea 
>> to take tension off the backstay with the halyard makes a lot of sense.  I 
>> will take a look at that today.  I know the backstay adjuster was mostly 
>> loose as I had pushed it up with a pole this spring when I was playing with 
>> shroud adjustment.  
>> 1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it will 
>> go without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be slack to put the 
>> pins back in with the turnbuckles loose but attached without taking tension 
>> off with the halyard as Josh suggested? 
>> 2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the backstay 
>> detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the deck, forestay and 
>> shrouds)?
>> Thanks- Dave
>> 
>> Aries
>> 1990 C 34+
>> New London, CT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, robert >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> David:
>>> 
>>> My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an adjuster.I 
>>> unstep and step my mast, however, I have no problem attaching the split 
>>> backstay which I am the one usually doing it.
>>> 
>>> I leave the turn buckle(s) attached and simply remove the split ring and 
>>> pin in the Fall and in the Spring, one at a time put the pin(s) in..and 
>>> when I do this, the forestay is always attached first for obvious 
>>> reasons.the length of the forestay is 'set'..when the backstay is 
>>> attached, the turn buckles are tightened.
>>> 
>>> I can see where it would

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread robert via CnC-List 

David:

When my two back stay turn buckles are tensioned to where I like them, 
no adjuster pulled on, there is approx. 2" showing on each one on the 
inside of the turn buckle.I thread both sides of each turn buckle 
equally.


When attaching to the back rail when stepping the mast, both are 
loosened off approx. 1 1/2 inches of the 2" and they can be pinned no 
problem.


I take my adjuster off the back stay each Fall and put it back on the 
Spring.it is not put back on until I have the two back stay(s) on 
and tensioned so the adjuster has no part in getting the back stay pinned.


I don't have a halyard attached to the back rail or anywhere.I don't 
use a halyard.never have.with the mast in the mast step, blocked 
at the base, the mast shimed in the collar, the forestay on, the shrouds 
tensioned, my mast isn't going anywhere.  A halyard is always added 
protection but I will never use one.


Trusting this helps.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-11 10:50 AM, David Knecht wrote:
They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the 
turnbuckle and they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I 
thought Josh’s idea to take tension off the backstay with the halyard 
makes a lot of sense.  I will take a look at that today.  I know the 
backstay adjuster was mostly loose as I had pushed it up with a pole 
this spring when I was playing with shroud adjustment.
1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it 
will go without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be slack to 
put the pins back in with the turnbuckles loose but attached without 
taking tension off with the halyard as Josh suggested?
2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the 
backstay detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the 
deck, forestay and shrouds)?

Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT


On May 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, robert > wrote:


David:

My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an 
adjuster.I unstep and step my mast, however, I have no problem 
attaching the split backstay which I am the one usually doing it.


I leave the turn buckle(s) attached and simply remove the split ring 
and pin in the Fall and in the Spring, one at a time put the pin(s) 
in..and when I do this, the forestay is always attached first for 
obvious reasons.the length of the forestay is 'set'..when the 
backstay is attached, the turn buckles are tightened.


I can see where it would be difficult if the backstay turn buckles 
were removed..then it becomes a two person job to attach 
them.you really need one person pulling back and down on the 
backstay and the second threading the turn buckleit can be done 
with one person but a lot simpler with two.


Just curious, when the backstay is attached and tightened, how much 
'thread' is showing inside the turnbuckle?   Just wondering if your 
forestay is too tight.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-10 11:34 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down 
with block and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is 
there a nautical name I should know?).  My boat was splashed today 
and the yard crew complained for the second year about the 
difficulty reattaching the backstay.  I don’t think previous yards 
even disconnected it, but something about their sling and lift 
system means they have to come in with the sling from the rear with 
no backstay.  I am pretty sure the mast has a slight backward rake, 
so I can’t see why the length of the backstay would be a problem, 
but apparently even with the turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, they 
can barely get it reattached.  I can’t come up with a reason why 
they would have such a problem and if it means that something is not 
right with the rig.  I will check the rake again tomorrow now that 
the boat is floating and level, but it has always had some amount of 
rake as measured by a weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any 
thoughts on something I might be missing or is it normal for that 
kind of backstay to have limited adjustability?  Thanks- Dave


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go 
to:https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!






___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread jhnelson via CnC-List 


Ditto on mine. As well, unless you turn the boat upside down you can take all 
the stays off. Light winds of course. Mast isn't going to fall out of the cabin.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Date: 2017-05-11  09:26  (GMT-04:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: robert <robertabb...@eastlink.ca> 
Subject: Stus-List Backstay length and tension 


Gary



Good point.when I reattach mine, I have the second person
holding the backstay(s) push the adjuster all the way up ...usually
with a boat hook.



Rob Abbott

AZURA

C 32 -84

Halifax, N.S.



On 2017-05-11 9:17 AM, Gary Nylander
  via CnC-List wrote:



  
  
  
I have the split backstay arrangement
as well. Probably the yard guys didn’t push the adjuster up
all the way to the split when they were reattaching the
backstays. Just a guess.
 
Gary
St. Michaels MD


  



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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
I am probably stating the obvious, but make sure that there is _something_ 
holding the mast backwards (i.e. either a halyard, halyard/mainsheet 
combination, or the topping lift/mainsheet combination). If you release the 
backstay without that support, the forestay would pull the mast forward.

I would secure it with the halyard (as I always do when attaching the backstay 
or working on the forestay).

Marek

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 12:15
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dennis C.<mailto:capt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

Ditto Josh's solution.

Keel step rig. No issue with back stay off in calm or light conditions. If in 
doubt use main halyard aft to block it.

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2017, at 8:50 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle and 
they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh’s idea to 
take tension off the backstay with the halyard makes a lot of sense.  I will 
take a look at that today.  I know the backstay adjuster was mostly loose as I 
had pushed it up with a pole this spring when I was playing with shroud 
adjustment.
1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it will go 
without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be slack to put the pins back 
in with the turnbuckles loose but attached without taking tension off with the 
halyard as Josh suggested?
2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the backstay 
detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the deck, forestay and 
shrouds)?
Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



On May 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, robert 
<robertabb...@eastlink.ca<mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca>> wrote:

David:

My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an adjuster.I 
unstep and step my mast, however, I have no problem attaching the split 
backstay which I am the one usually doing it.

I leave the turn buckle(s) attached and simply remove the split ring and pin in 
the Fall and in the Spring, one at a time put the pin(s) in..and when I do 
this, the forestay is always attached first for obvious reasons.the length 
of the forestay is 'set'..when the backstay is attached, the turn buckles 
are tightened.

I can see where it would be difficult if the backstay turn buckles were 
removed..then it becomes a two person job to attach them.you really 
need one person pulling back and down on the backstay and the second threading 
the turn buckleit can be done with one person but a lot simpler with two.

Just curious, when the backstay is attached and tightened, how much 'thread' is 
showing inside the turnbuckle?   Just wondering if your forestay is too tight.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2017-05-10 11:34 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down with block 
and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is there a nautical name I 
should know?).  My boat was splashed today and the yard crew complained for the 
second year about the difficulty reattaching the backstay.  I don’t think 
previous yards even disconnected it, but something about their sling and lift 
system means they have to come in with the sling from the rear with no 
backstay.  I am pretty sure the mast has a slight backward rake, so I can’t see 
why the length of the backstay would be a problem, but apparently even with the 
turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, they can barely get it reattached.  I can’t 
come up with a reason why they would have such a problem and if it means that 
something is not right with the rig.  I will check the rake again tomorrow now 
that the boat is floating and level, but it has always had some amount of rake 
as measured by a weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any thoughts on 
something I might be missing or is it normal for that kind of backstay to have 
limited adjustability?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT







___



This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Ditto Josh's solution. 

Keel step rig. No issue with back stay off in calm or light conditions. If in 
doubt use main halyard aft to block it. 

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2017, at 8:50 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> They said was that there were only a few threads engaged on the turnbuckle 
> and they were leaving it to me to tighten it further.  I thought Josh’s idea 
> to take tension off the backstay with the halyard makes a lot of sense.  I 
> will take a look at that today.  I know the backstay adjuster was mostly 
> loose as I had pushed it up with a pole this spring when I was playing with 
> shroud adjustment.  
> 1.  How much tension should there be with the adjuster up as far as it will 
> go without a pole pushing it.  Should there actually be slack to put the pins 
> back in with the turnbuckles loose but attached without taking tension off 
> with the halyard as Josh suggested? 
> 2.  I am presuming that it is safe to work on the rig with the backstay 
> detached (meaning the mast is still well supported by the deck, forestay and 
> shrouds)?
> Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, robert  wrote:
>> 
>> David:
>> 
>> My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an adjuster.I 
>> unstep and step my mast, however, I have no problem attaching the split 
>> backstay which I am the one usually doing it.
>> 
>> I leave the turn buckle(s) attached and simply remove the split ring and pin 
>> in the Fall and in the Spring, one at a time put the pin(s) in..and when 
>> I do this, the forestay is always attached first for obvious reasons.the 
>> length of the forestay is 'set'..when the backstay is attached, the turn 
>> buckles are tightened.
>> 
>> I can see where it would be difficult if the backstay turn buckles were 
>> removed..then it becomes a two person job to attach them.you really 
>> need one person pulling back and down on the backstay and the second 
>> threading the turn buckleit can be done with one person but a lot 
>> simpler with two.
>> 
>> Just curious, when the backstay is attached and tightened, how much 'thread' 
>> is showing inside the turnbuckle?   Just wondering if your forestay is too 
>> tight.
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C 32 - 84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>>  
>> 
>>> On 2017-05-10 11:34 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
>>> My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down with 
>>> block and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is there a 
>>> nautical name I should know?).  My boat was splashed today and the yard 
>>> crew complained for the second year about the difficulty reattaching the 
>>> backstay.  I don’t think previous yards even disconnected it, but something 
>>> about their sling and lift system means they have to come in with the sling 
>>> from the rear with no backstay.  I am pretty sure the mast has a slight 
>>> backward rake, so I can’t see why the length of the backstay would be a 
>>> problem, but apparently even with the turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, 
>>> they can barely get it reattached.  I can’t come up with a reason why they 
>>> would have such a problem and if it means that something is not right with 
>>> the rig.  I will check the rake again tomorrow now that the boat is 
>>> floating and level, but it has always had some amount of rake as measured 
>>> by a weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any thoughts on something I 
>>> might be missing or is it normal for that kind of backstay to have limited 
>>> adjustability?  Thanks- Dave
>>> 
>>> Aries
>>> 1990 C 34+
>>> New London, CT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread robert via CnC-List 

David:

My boat has the same setup for a backstay.split with an 
adjuster.I unstep and step my mast, however, I have no problem 
attaching the split backstay which I am the one usually doing it.


I leave the turn buckle(s) attached and simply remove the split ring and 
pin in the Fall and in the Spring, one at a time put the pin(s) 
in..and when I do this, the forestay is always attached first for 
obvious reasons.the length of the forestay is 'set'..when the 
backstay is attached, the turn buckles are tightened.


I can see where it would be difficult if the backstay turn buckles were 
removed..then it becomes a two person job to attach them.you 
really need one person pulling back and down on the backstay and the 
second threading the turn buckleit can be done with one person but a 
lot simpler with two.


Just curious, when the backstay is attached and tightened, how much 
'thread' is showing inside the turnbuckle?   Just wondering if your 
forestay is too tight.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.


On 2017-05-10 11:34 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down with 
block and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is there a 
nautical name I should know?).  My boat was splashed today and the 
yard crew complained for the second year about the difficulty 
reattaching the backstay.  I don’t think previous yards even 
disconnected it, but something about their sling and lift system means 
they have to come in with the sling from the rear with no backstay.  I 
am pretty sure the mast has a slight backward rake, so I can’t see why 
the length of the backstay would be a problem, but apparently even 
with the turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, they can barely get it 
reattached.  I can’t come up with a reason why they would have such a 
problem and if it means that something is not right with the rig.  I 
will check the rake again tomorrow now that the boat is floating and 
level, but it has always had some amount of rake as measured by a 
weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any thoughts on something I 
might be missing or is it normal for that kind of backstay to have 
limited adjustability?  Thanks- Dave


Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-11 Thread Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
I have the split backstay arrangement as well. Probably the yard guys didn’t 
push the adjuster up all the way to the split when they were reattaching the 
backstays. Just a guess.

 

Gary

St. Michaels MD

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 10:35 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list <CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
Cc: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List Backstay length and tension

 

My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down with block 
and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is there a nautical name I 
should know?).  My boat was splashed today and the yard crew complained for the 
second year about the difficulty reattaching the backstay.  I don’t think 
previous yards even disconnected it, but something about their sling and lift 
system means they have to come in with the sling from the rear with no 
backstay.  I am pretty sure the mast has a slight backward rake, so I can’t see 
why the length of the backstay would be a problem, but apparently even with the 
turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, they can barely get it reattached.  I can’t 
come up with a reason why they would have such a problem and if it means that 
something is not right with the rig.  I will check the rake again tomorrow now 
that the boat is floating and level, but it has always had some amount of rake 
as measured by a weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any thoughts on 
something I might be missing or is it normal for that kind of backstay to have 
limited adjustability?  Thanks- Dave

 

Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 

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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Stus-List Backstay length and tension

2017-05-10 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
My boat has a split backstay with an adjuster that is pulled down with block 
and tackle to pinch the split and increase tension (Is there a nautical name I 
should know?).  My boat was splashed today and the yard crew complained for the 
second year about the difficulty reattaching the backstay.  I don’t think 
previous yards even disconnected it, but something about their sling and lift 
system means they have to come in with the sling from the rear with no 
backstay.  I am pretty sure the mast has a slight backward rake, so I can’t see 
why the length of the backstay would be a problem, but apparently even with the 
turnbuckles and adjuster loosened, they can barely get it reattached.  I can’t 
come up with a reason why they would have such a problem and if it means that 
something is not right with the rig.  I will check the rake again tomorrow now 
that the boat is floating and level, but it has always had some amount of rake 
as measured by a weight hanging from the main halyard.  Any thoughts on 
something I might be missing or is it normal for that kind of backstay to have 
limited adjustability?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!