Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-05-01 Thread Rick Brass via CnC-List 
Edd,

 

Marek, Dennis, and Joe are correct. We're talking SMALL engines here, and
the actual cranking amps required are modest. 

 

Joe's A4 starts on an old motorcycle/garden tractor battery with 100 amps or
so of current.

Dennis' 25HP Universal has a max 190 amps, but probably actually draws less
than that. 

My 36HP Universal draws about 100A in normal starting, but the installation
manual calls for starting cables and fuses sized for a max of 175A in case
something is not "normal". (see my earlier response to your question about
doubling the CCA. I point out that a Yanmar 3YM30 starter draws only 90A
with a fully charged 12V battery, but might go to 200A or so with a very low
battery or a locked up engine.)

 

I use a group 24 deep cycle battery to start my engine (I want as much
reserve capacity as possible). The MCA is in the mid-300 range, and the AH
rating is in the low 70s at the 20 hour rate.

 

BTW, the CCA rating at 0 degrees F is about half what a new battery will
deliver at standard temperature of 77F. The MCA (at 32F) is about 60 or 65%
of what the battery will produce in a warmer environment.

 

I think the clearest battery recommendations are contained in the Beta
Marine engine installation manual. Here is what they recommend:

2 & 3 cyl. Engines up to 25HP   35-50AH battery (@ 20
hr. rate) 350-400 MCA Current draw 100-120 amps used to size cables

4 cyl. Engines 25-38 HP   65-70AH
450-540 MCA Current draw 120 amps

4 cyl. Engines 43-70 HP   100-120AH
580-670 MCA Current Draw 120-170 amps

 

So for a starting battery ask yourself a couple of questions:

 

Do I really want to carry around the extra size and weight and cost of a
group 31 diesel start battery with 700-900 CCA? Could I use a smaller start
battery and benefit from some added capacity to the house bank instead?

 

When is the last time I actually tried to start the boat at 0F? Shouldn't I
be choosing based on MCA instead?

 

Given the increased vulnerability of an automotive or marine starting
battery to vibration and shock (vs. that of a deep cycle type battery), just
how long will the starting battery  last?

 

Why have a battery with 900CCA if my starter cable is  fused at 200A? And
how quickly will a fire start if I don't have a fused cable and the battery
delivers 900 or more amps while trying to start a locked-up engine?

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 6:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

 

No question, a bigger battery would work. But I would think that for just
starting, you really need a much smaller battery. These engines are small.
Tractors using these engines have 450 CCA batteries. If they work there,
they should work on the boat. I would save the weight for the house.

 

Marek 

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows
10

 

  _  

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > on behalf of svrebeccaleah via
CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:51:06 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: svrebeccaleah
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine 

 

Edd, I would go with nothing less than 750 cca, space permitting.  The more
the better. The bigger  battery will last longer. I am using a group 27 to
start my Yanmar 4jhe44. I took out a 20 year old group 31 that was still
working. 

 

 

 

Doug Mountjoy 

Rebecca Leah 

LF39 

Port Orchard YC, WA.

 

 

 

 Original message 

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Date: 4/30/18 13:23 (GMT-08:00) 

To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List  

Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com> > 

Subject: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine 

 

Listers, 

 

What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to
warm up glow plugs and start a "cold" 35HP diesel engine? 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fenterprise
b.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C773b7fa182b343e3ec2c08d5aedc3a4d%7C84df9
e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636607183243121620&sdata=L7%2FuXToZ7Zy
ErYIIgvw2dlqmrWgkUITzctTyjV8OD8c%3D&reserved=0> 

 









 






 

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Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-05-01 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Edd,

Part of the information that the other listers haven't been commenting on
is that you asked about CCA and glow plugs.  You could probably plan on
between 10 and 15 amps total for your glow plugs.  Compared to the draw of
the starter this is a relatively insignificant additional current draw.
>From the online resources that I found for your engine, it appears that you
cannot apply power to the glow plugs and starter simultaneously anyway so
really now you get down to total Ah, CA, and CCA needed.  In the past I've
used an old AGM with only 7Ah of measured usable capacity to start my
Yanmar. As the rest of the listers have suggested, any U1 battery should
fill the bill in your situation.  I say get the largest that will fit the
battery compartment but don't stress that it may be too small.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:24 PM Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Listers,
>
> What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to
> warm up glow plugs and start a “cold” 35HP diesel engine?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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>
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Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-05-01 Thread Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
I use a U1 battery to start my engine (30 AH "lawn tractor battery"), but it is 
pretty marginal at best when the engine is cold-soaked. When hot the engine 
starts literally in about 2 seconds. My starter draws 120 amps and the U1 is 
about 250 MCA.
For a 35 HP diesel I would suggest not going smaller than a group 24 IMHO and a 
group 27 is hardly any bigger in size once it is in the box.

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 6:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

No question, a bigger battery would work. But I would think that for just 
starting, you really need a much smaller battery. These engines are small. 
Tractors using these engines have 450 CCA batteries. If they work there, they 
should work on the boat. I would save the weight for the house.

Marek

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of svrebeccaleah via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:51:06 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: svrebeccaleah
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

Edd, I would go with nothing less than 750 cca, space permitting.  The more the 
better. The bigger  battery will last longer. I am using a group 27 to start my 
Yanmar 4jhe44. I took out a 20 year old group 31 that was still working.



Doug Mountjoy
Rebecca Leah
LF39
Port Orchard YC, WA.



 Original message 
From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Date: 4/30/18 13:23 (GMT-08:00)
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

Listers,

What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to warm 
up glow plugs and start a "cold" 35HP diesel engine?

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C773b7fa182b343e3ec2c08d5aedc3a4d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636607183243121620&sdata=L7%2FuXToZ7ZyErYIIgvw2dlqmrWgkUITzctTyjV8OD8c%3D&reserved=0>










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Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-04-30 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List 
As I recall the CCA for Touche's Universal 25XPB is 190.

Dennis C.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> No question, a bigger battery would work. But I would think that for just
> starting, you really need a much smaller battery. These engines are small.
> Tractors using these engines have 450 CCA batteries. If they work there,
> they should work on the boat. I would save the weight for the house.
>
>
>
> Marek
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of
> svrebeccaleah via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2018 4:51:06 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* svrebeccaleah
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine
>
> Edd, I would go with nothing less than 750 cca, space permitting.  The
> more the better. The bigger  battery will last longer. I am using a group
> 27 to start my Yanmar 4jhe44. I took out a 20 year old group 31 that was
> still working.
>
>
>
> Doug Mountjoy
> Rebecca Leah
> LF39
> Port Orchard YC, WA.
>
>
>
>  Original message ----
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> Date: 4/30/18 13:23 (GMT-08:00)
> To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> Cc: Edd Schillay 
> Subject: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine
>
> Listers,
>
> What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to
> warm up glow plugs and start a “cold” 35HP diesel engine?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C773b7fa182b343e3ec2c08d5aedc3a4d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636607183243121620&sdata=L7%2FuXToZ7ZyErYIIgvw2dlqmrWgkUITzctTyjV8OD8c%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-04-30 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
No question, a bigger battery would work. But I would think that for just 
starting, you really need a much smaller battery. These engines are small. 
Tractors using these engines have 450 CCA batteries. If they work there, they 
should work on the boat. I would save the weight for the house.

Marek

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


From: CnC-List  on behalf of svrebeccaleah via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 4:51:06 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: svrebeccaleah
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

Edd, I would go with nothing less than 750 cca, space permitting.  The more the 
better. The bigger  battery will last longer. I am using a group 27 to start my 
Yanmar 4jhe44. I took out a 20 year old group 31 that was still working.



Doug Mountjoy
Rebecca Leah
LF39
Port Orchard YC, WA.



 Original message 
From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Date: 4/30/18 13:23 (GMT-08:00)
To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

Listers,

What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to warm 
up glow plugs and start a “cold” 35HP diesel engine?

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fenterpriseb.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C773b7fa182b343e3ec2c08d5aedc3a4d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636607183243121620&sdata=L7%2FuXToZ7ZyErYIIgvw2dlqmrWgkUITzctTyjV8OD8c%3D&reserved=0>







___

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Re: Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-04-30 Thread svrebeccaleah via CnC-List 
Edd, I would go with nothing less than 750 cca, space permitting.  The more the 
better. The bigger  battery will last longer. I am using a group 27 to start my 
Yanmar 4jhe44. I took out a 20 year old group 31 that was still working. 


Doug Mountjoy Rebecca Leah LF39 Port Orchard YC, WA.


 Original message From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 Date: 4/30/18  13:23  (GMT-08:00) To: Edd Schillay via 
CnC-List  Cc: Edd Schillay  Subject: 
Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine 
Listers,
What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to warm 
up glow plugs and start a “cold” 35HP diesel engine? 


All the best,
Edd

Edd M. SchillayStarship EnterpriseC&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log









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Stus-List Battery CCA Rating for a "Cold" Diesel Engine

2018-04-30 Thread Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Listers,

What would you recommend to be a good CCA rating for a starting battery to warm 
up glow plugs and start a “cold” 35HP diesel engine? 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 








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