Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
What do your folks rate a Star? We only have one Wednesday night race where the fleets are combined, so usually they race one design - windward/leeward - which is what they like. But on that single race, our guys rate them at 162, which seems to be somewhat correct. And, we race in light wind and flat water, which favors them. The rest of the combined fleet ranges from a J-105 at 87 to a Cal 2-27 at 213. Gary St. Michaels MD - Original Message - From: Michael Brown via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Hi Joel and Mike. I won't disagree with any of your points, though I was commenting on what I think is a different topic. Aside from planning, surfing or momentarily being overpowered in a gust some boats get to a much higher percentage of hull speed in moderate winds. I think everyone understands hull speed, and that it can be a soft limit, but to me a second factor is also in play. The ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. I think most of it is from below the waterline drag, which also compounds with the loss of apparent wind. The widest difference I see is when I am racing smaller boats that are from dry sail. A common feature is a very slippery clean and polished hull, no thru-hulls, and no prop or shaft in the water. I have depth + knotmeter, and five water thru-hulls. Also, the 30-1 prop shaft and cutlass are not on the center line, and in fact are angled both down and to port. So I muse over the observation that in calmer water with a moderate breeze that the smaller day sailors are easily getting to or exceeding hull speed, maybe because they have so little drag. In my case getting to 5.4 kts is hard, again a guess but I think drag has got to be the factor. PHRF factors in displacement / water line and sail area to displacement, neither of which is my ease factor. I see it on my Tuesday night spinnaker race, where my fleet consists of J/22, J/24, J/80, I guess a J/70 now, Kirby 30 and a Star. Even without a spinnaker in a spinnaker fleet, and a 15' waterline, the Star easily takes everyone level. By PHRF it is also the slowest boat. It just has a great ease factor. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. Yes, it should!!! Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! Joel Message: 11 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:55:03 + From: Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List hull speed, planing, PHRF, etc ... Message-ID: 169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Michael Typically sport boats have their planning capabilities accounted for in their PHRF numbers. This is one reason why limiting a course to strictly W/L is not always desirable as it takes away a major component of some boats speed by removing any reaching legs? that is a discussion for another time though. A Viking 22 is not a sport boat but is light and will probably surf quite well in a wind. By contrast they would be pounded mercilessly going to wind in those same conditions. Our first ever race on our former J27 was a 52 mile port to port distance race with winds well over 20 knots TWS coming over port quarter (likely much more). We were regularly exceeding 12 knots over the water on the ST60 Speed instrument as we surfed down waves. We would then drop off to 7 knots as we stopped surfing each time. We hit a high of 13.9 knots that day. (which we never ever saw again while racing in 7 years). During the same race the boat ahead of us was a Peterson 37. They never came close to 13 knots but they also never dropped below 9. The boat immediately behind was a CC 34 ? same thing as the Peterson. I suspect your 30 would also not slow down as much after the surf finishes as the lighter 22 but would have a pretty nice average boat speed during the day. I should note that after we dropped the spin and went with just a main for a while we continued to exceed 12 and drop down to 7s. We averaged 8 knots over our course that race. It was a wild and wet day. At the bar after the finish a friend in a Tanzer 22 was there less than an hour after we finished and he flew only white sails. Usually he is several hours behind.The only other time we hit high speeds on speedo was just after we abandoned a race due to excessive waves and wind and were reaching back to port under reefed main and 100% headsail. While I was attending to cooler duties we surfed down a wave and briefly hit 15.0 knots. Despite that it took our usual time to get back
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
156 seems a bit more correct From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Nylander via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 1:35 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Gary Nylander Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! What do your folks rate a Star? We only have one Wednesday night race where the fleets are combined, so usually they race one design - windward/leeward - which is what they like. But on that single race, our guys rate them at 162, which seems to be somewhat correct. And, we race in light wind and flat water, which favors them. The rest of the combined fleet ranges from a J-105 at 87 to a Cal 2-27 at 213. Gary St. Michaels MD - Original Message - From: Michael Brown via CnC-Listmailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brownmailto:m...@tkg.ca Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Hi Joel and Mike. I won't disagree with any of your points, though I was commenting on what I think is a different topic. Aside from planning, surfing or momentarily being overpowered in a gust some boats get to a much higher percentage of hull speed in moderate winds. I think everyone understands hull speed, and that it can be a soft limit, but to me a second factor is also in play. The ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. I think most of it is from below the waterline drag, which also compounds with the loss of apparent wind. The widest difference I see is when I am racing smaller boats that are from dry sail. A common feature is a very slippery clean and polished hull, no thru-hulls, and no prop or shaft in the water. I have depth + knotmeter, and five water thru-hulls. Also, the 30-1 prop shaft and cutlass are not on the center line, and in fact are angled both down and to port. So I muse over the observation that in calmer water with a moderate breeze that the smaller day sailors are easily getting to or exceeding hull speed, maybe because they have so little drag. In my case getting to 5.4 kts is hard, again a guess but I think drag has got to be the factor. PHRF factors in displacement / water line and sail area to displacement, neither of which is my ease factor. I see it on my Tuesday night spinnaker race, where my fleet consists of J/22, J/24, J/80, I guess a J/70 now, Kirby 30 and a Star. Even without a spinnaker in a spinnaker fleet, and a 15' waterline, the Star easily takes everyone level. By PHRF it is also the slowest boat. It just has a great ease factor. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. Yes, it should!!! Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! Joel Message: 11 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:55:03 + From: Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.commailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List hull speed, planing, PHRF, etc ... Message-ID: 169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.commailto:169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Michael Typically sport boats have their planning capabilities accounted for in their PHRF numbers. This is one reason why limiting a course to strictly W/L is not always desirable as it takes away a major component of some boats speed by removing any reaching legs? that is a discussion for another time though. A Viking 22 is not a sport boat but is light and will probably surf quite well in a wind. By contrast they would be pounded mercilessly going to wind in those same conditions. Our first ever race on our former J27 was a 52 mile port to port distance race with winds well over 20 knots TWS coming over port quarter (likely much more). We were regularly exceeding 12 knots over the water on the ST60 Speed instrument as we surfed down waves. We would then drop off to 7 knots as we stopped surfing each time. We hit a high of 13.9 knots that day. (which we never ever saw again while racing in 7 years). During the same race the boat ahead of us was a Peterson 37. They never came close to 13 knots but they also never dropped below 9. The boat immediately behind was a CC 34 ? same thing as the Peterson. I suspect your 30 would also not slow down as much after the surf finishes as the lighter 22 but would have a pretty nice average boat speed during the day. I should note that after we dropped the spin and went with just a main for a while we continued to exceed 12 and drop down to 7s. We averaged 8 knots over our course that race. It was a wild and wet day. At the bar after the finish a friend in a Tanzer 22 was there less than an hour after we finished and he flew only white sails. Usually he is several hours behind
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I would agree with this school of thought - for very light air +/-3 knots. I frequently furl my 135 down to 100 otherwise I find that the slightest puff pushes the bow down when trying to inch my way upwind. -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 22:33, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Actually, there is a school of thought that a 110% would work better in very light air (then a 155% or even a 135%). This is attributed to the fact that in order to generate lift, the airflow over the sail has to be laminar and if the sail is too long, the wind may not have enough energy to stay attached to the sail for such a long distance. There was recently a long discussion on that topic at Sailboat Owners (Don Gillette’s forum). Even some prizes were awarded. Marek From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Pennie via CnC-List Sent: August-25-15 20:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: John Pennie Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Oh come on, if you don't exaggerate a bit you're just not a sailor. On the 110%, I've gone with a 120 for years when cruising. It's just easier on everyone with little loss of speed vs. the 135 in lighter air. Whatever we loose in speed we make up for in quick tacking. We're in NY harbor (Battery) so short tacks and chop are the norm as is wind in the 15 range. Even racing we're not shy about using the 120 in the cruising or double handed divisions. Smaller and well trimmed trumps bigger and sloppy. Yes, people here have strong opinions and are a pita at times - until you need those strong opinions from a knowledgeable group. Good luck John Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Hi Joel and Mike. I won't disagree with any of your points, though I was commenting on what I think is a different topic. Aside from planning, surfing or momentarily being overpowered in a gust some boats get to a much higher percentage of hull speed in moderate winds. I think everyone understands hull speed, and that it can be a soft limit, but to me a second factor is also in play. The ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. I think most of it is from below the waterline drag, which also compounds with the loss of apparent wind. The widest difference I see is when I am racing smaller boats that are from dry sail. A common feature is a very slippery clean and polished hull, no thru-hulls, and no prop or shaft in the water. I have depth + knotmeter, and five water thru-hulls. Also, the 30-1 prop shaft and cutlass are not on the center line, and in fact are angled both down and to port. So I muse over the observation that in calmer water with a moderate breeze that the smaller day sailors are easily getting to or exceeding hull speed, maybe because they have so little drag. In my case getting to 5.4 kts is hard, again a guess but I think drag has got to be the factor. PHRF factors in displacement / water line and sail area to displacement, neither of which is my ease factor. I see it on my Tuesday night spinnaker race, where my fleet consists of J/22, J/24, J/80, I guess a J/70 now, Kirby 30 and a Star. Even without a spinnaker in a spinnaker fleet, and a 15' waterline, the Star easily takes everyone level. By PHRF it is also the slowest boat. It just has a great ease factor. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. Yes, it should!!! Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! Joel Message: 11 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:55:03 + From: Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List hull speed, planing, PHRF, etc ... Message-ID: 169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Michael Typically sport boats have their planning capabilities accounted for in their PHRF numbers. This is one reason why limiting a course to strictly W/L is not always desirable as it takes away a major component of some boats speed by removing any reaching legs? that is a discussion for another time though. A Viking 22 is not a sport boat but is light and will probably surf quite well in a wind. By contrast they would be pounded mercilessly going to wind in those same conditions. Our first ever race on our former J27 was a 52 mile port to port distance race with winds well over 20 knots TWS coming over port quarter (likely much more). We were regularly exceeding 12 knots over the water on the ST60 Speed instrument as we surfed down waves. We would then drop off to 7 knots as we stopped surfing each time. We hit a high of 13.9 knots that day. (which we never ever saw again while racing in 7 years). During the same race the boat ahead of us was a Peterson 37. They never came close to 13 knots but they also never dropped below 9. The boat immediately behind was a CC 34 ? same thing as the Peterson. I suspect your 30 would also not slow down as much after the surf finishes as the lighter 22 but would have a pretty nice average boat speed during the day. I should note that after we dropped the spin and went with just a main for a while we continued to exceed 12 and drop down to 7s. We averaged 8 knots over our course that race. It was a wild and wet day. At the bar after the finish a friend in a Tanzer 22 was there less than an hour after we finished and he flew only white sails. Usually he is several hours behind. The only other time we hit high speeds on speedo was just after we abandoned a race due to excessive waves and wind and were reaching back to port under reefed main and 100% headsail. While I was attending to cooler duties we surfed down a wave and briefly hit 15.0 knots. Despite that it took our usual time to get back. As a proud papa of the boat I selected Max Speed both times and took photos at the dock. On the day we hit 15 after abandoning a CC30-1 won the race. Mike Persistence Halifax ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Yup did 12.1 knots in a squall in relatively flattish water not surfing. Kept looking up at the rig praying it wouldn't come down. Lots O' Force there... David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:39:44 -0400 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: joel.aron...@gmail.com Nat Herreshoff spoke at my YC when I was a kid. He said he did not believe in hull speed as a limit. More sail or more wind equals more speed.I was doing more than hull speed (7.3) while cruising on a reach last weekend and have done over 8 knots in flat water with the chute. Joel35/3Annapolis On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) From: Indigo via CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: IndigoSubject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! --JonathanIndigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
not sure about accuracy but I know mine can be calibrated to be pretty close to GPS SOG when steaming in calm conditions. On my boat however because the paddle wheel is mounted slightly to port of center line towards the after end of the keel if I calibrate it to read the same as the gps sog on port tack then it will not be calibrated to read the same as the gps sog on starboard tack...I attribute that to water flow around the keel near the paddle wheel related to the paddle wheel being in one case on the windward side of the keel and in the other case on the leeward side of the keel...I simply try to split the difference but I favour higher feel good numbers for everyone in the boat to see Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Greg Arnold via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Aren't knotmeter transducers notoriously inaccurate? On 8/25/2015 10:05 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.netd.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.comcnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know thereâs a few 26 owners on here so thought Iâd share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, Iâm open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake I love that! So I thought weâd play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap itâs around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasnât setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think sheâd do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So hereâs my thoughts: Iâm thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if thatâs not practical (...and I suspect it isnât) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! Iâm well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm Iâve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%).  OK guys, am I missing something? (Iâm not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!)  sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta  ___ Email address: mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.comhttp://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Theoretical hull speed is not a limit, it is a sweet-spot. You can go faster, but it takes exponentially more effort to do so. An example of this is that when motoring in calm water, you reach hull speed with the motor running at 1/4 throttle. To gain maybe .5 - 1 more knot of speed, you must increase the engine to full throttle. Also be aware of the difference between SOG and STW. Bill Bina On 8/25/2015 12:39 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote: Nat Herreshoff spoke at my YC when I was a kid. He said he did not believe in hull speed as a limit. More sail or more wind equals more speed. I was doing more than hull speed (7.3) while cruising on a reach last weekend and have done over 8 knots in flat water with the chute. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) *From: *Indigo via CnC-List *Sent: *Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc: *Indigo *Subject: *Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
The theoretical hull speed only means that in order to go faster you need disproportionally more force. Kind of, you move on the other side of an elbow (on a chart). Another thing is that the hull speed calculated this way is done assuming that the hull shape is “standard”. This is just a first approximation. The shape of the hull and the appendages makes a difference, as well. I would say that 8 kt. is a bit optimistic, but who are we to judge (;-). Marek From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 12:39 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Joel Aronson Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Nat Herreshoff spoke at my YC when I was a kid. He said he did not believe in hull speed as a limit. More sail or more wind equals more speed. I was doing more than hull speed (7.3) while cruising on a reach last weekend and have done over 8 knots in flat water with the chute. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) From: Indigo via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Indigo Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit!sam:-)From: Indigo via CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: IndigoSubject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!!--JonathanIndigo CC 35IIISOUTHPORT CTOn Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor.I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed.I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay.I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed.When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page.David DonnellyCC 26 MistressSent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan.Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan.Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck)Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference.Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main.Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.So here’s my thoughts:I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%.Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too!I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helmI’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%).OK guys, am I missing something?(I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!)sam :-)CC 26 LiquoriceGhost Lake Alberta___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com___Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.comTo change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Nat Herreshoff spoke at my YC when I was a kid. He said he did not believe in hull speed as a limit. More sail or more wind equals more speed. I was doing more than hull speed (7.3) while cruising on a reach last weekend and have done over 8 knots in flat water with the chute. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) *From: *Indigo via CnC-List *Sent: *Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc: *Indigo *Subject: *Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Don't forget that when a boat heels, the waterline may grow, but I still doubt the figures quoted. I have never seen that on my (sometimes well sailed) 30! Gary - Original Message - From: Sam Salter via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) From: Indigo via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Indigo Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Aren't knotmeter transducers notoriously inaccurate? On 8/25/2015 10:05 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I alluded to this back at the beginning of the discussion, before it spiraled into a your boat can't go that fast one. In very light, or heavy air, you give up nothing with a 110-115% genoa over something bigger, plus it's easier to tack, easier to trim, points better and easier to see past and if it really kicks up, partially reefs better. There is really no good reason that I can find for running a bigger genoa unless you are racing with a full crew in light-medium air (8-20kts). My 2c, Canadian, rounded to the nearest cent, then adjusted for the loss of the penny coin :) Cheers, Paul. To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 22:33:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: dziedzi...@hotmail.com Actually, there is a school of thought that a 110% would work better in very light air (then a 155% or even a 135%). This is attributed to the fact that in order to generate lift, the airflow over the sail has to be laminar and if the sail is too long, the wind may not have enough energy to stay attached to the sail for such a long distance. There was recently a long discussion on that topic at Sailboat Owners (Don Gillette’s forum). Even some prizes were awarded. Marek From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Pennie via CnC-List Sent: August-25-15 20:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: John Pennie Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Oh come on, if you don't exaggerate a bit you're just not a sailor. On the 110%, I've gone with a 120 for years when cruising. It's just easier on everyone with little loss of speed vs. the 135 in lighter air. Whatever we loose in speed we make up for in quick tacking. We're in NY harbor (Battery) so short tacks and chop are the norm as is wind in the 15 range. Even racing we're not shy about using the 120 in the cruising or double handed divisions. Smaller and well trimmed trumps bigger and sloppy. Yes, people here have strong opinions and are a pita at times - until you need those strong opinions from a knowledgeable group. Good luck John Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:A few things :My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced.And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-)From: dwight veinot via CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: dwight veinotSubject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for himDwight VeinotCC 35 MKII, AliannaHead of St. Margaret's Bay, nsd.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan.Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Actually, there is a school of thought that a 110% would work better in very light air (then a 155% or even a 135%). This is attributed to the fact that in order to generate lift, the airflow over the sail has to be laminar and if the sail is too long, the wind may not have enough energy to stay attached to the sail for such a long distance. There was recently a long discussion on that topic at Sailboat Owners (Don Gillette’s forum). Even some prizes were awarded. Marek From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John Pennie via CnC-List Sent: August-25-15 20:00 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: John Pennie Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Oh come on, if you don't exaggerate a bit you're just not a sailor. On the 110%, I've gone with a 120 for years when cruising. It's just easier on everyone with little loss of speed vs. the 135 in lighter air. Whatever we loose in speed we make up for in quick tacking. We're in NY harbor (Battery) so short tacks and chop are the norm as is wind in the 15 range. Even racing we're not shy about using the 120 in the cruising or double handed divisions. Smaller and well trimmed trumps bigger and sloppy. Yes, people here have strong opinions and are a pita at times - until you need those strong opinions from a knowledgeable group. Good luck John Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. Yes, it should!!! Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! Joel On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Not including surfing or being pushed by waves I rarely get over calculated hull speed on my 30-1. Sometimes do it reaching on flat water with the 195% spinnaker. In one case I did get to about 7 kts, which leaves an impressive ditch directly behind the boat. At the same time a Viking 22 slowly passed me. Afterwards the skipper claimed he was doing about 7.2, occasionally 7.4. I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. The sustained highest speeds I get to are with a deeply cut 90% jib around 22 kts true. It sheets in front of the spreaders and inside the shrouds. As long as I am not pounding into waves I can do 6.5. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:31:42 -0400 From: Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Message-ID: 2E46EB485BC641329EB7254EBAB3F4D6@GaryPC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Don't forget that when a boat heels, the waterline may grow, but I still doubt the figures quoted. I have never seen that on my (sometimes well sailed) 30! Gary ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Not including surfing or being pushed by waves I rarely get over calculated hull speed on my 30-1. Sometimes do it reaching on flat water with the 195% spinnaker. In one case I did get to about 7 kts, which leaves an impressive ditch directly behind the boat. At the same time a Viking 22 slowly passed me. Afterwards the skipper claimed he was doing about 7.2, occasionally 7.4. I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. The sustained highest speeds I get to are with a deeply cut 90% jib around 22 kts true. It sheets in front of the spreaders and inside the shrouds. As long as I am not pounding into waves I can do 6.5. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:31:42 -0400 From: Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Message-ID: 2E46EB485BC641329EB7254EBAB3F4D6@GaryPC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Don't forget that when a boat heels, the waterline may grow, but I still doubt the figures quoted. I have never seen that on my (sometimes well sailed) 30! Gary ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
A few things :My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS)The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach.I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced.And yes the 27 is faster!Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam:-)From: dwight veinot via CnC-ListSent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: dwight veinotSubject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for himDwight VeinotCC 35 MKII, AliannaHead of St. Margaret's Bay, NSd.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as "regular"... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%).  OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I have calibrated my knotmeter with my gps on my tablet. They rarely are the exact same and are 0.1 to 0.3 kt difference with the knotmeter reading faster than the gps. My tablet may not be perfect either. My 26 as I stated does not go as fast as Sam's. Upwind I am 5.0 to 5.5 and reaching sometimes over 6.0. My personal best is 6.9 reaching, for 4 seconds, and in flat water and a really nice puff. I singlehand alot and don't know how to fly the spinnaker yet so I don't know if that might allow faster speeds. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-25-2015 1:15 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Frederick G Street f...@postaudio.net Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! My sailing instructor referred to them as “owner-meters”… :^) Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Arnold via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Aren't knotmeter transducers notoriously inaccurate? ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ *Sweet *mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%).  OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!)  sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta  ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Here's a hull speed story some of you racers might find interesting. My current boat is a centerboard Bristol 30, a 1960s CCA racer designed by Halsey Herreshoff with full keel, cutaway forefoot, attached rudder, etc. Of course, IOR boats like CCs sail circles around it in lighter winds. In 12-15 knots, it will sometimes reach 6.6 knots. But, in more than 20 knots of wind, with full main and a 130, the boat will hit a steady 7.5 knots on a close reach with jumps up to 7.8 knots. This is GPS speed in Boca Ciega Bay just off Tampa Bay, a protected area where you can have 1-2 foot seas and little current when the wind is really kicking up, which makes it fun to sail. The waterline is being stretched out as the boat heels over 30 to 40 degrees, but that shouldn't account for all the speed. Especially because I am not a racer. I guess the Herreshoffs knew a thing or two about designing sailboats back in the day. Jack Brennan Former CC 25 Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30 Tierra Verde, Fl. I Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO Original message From: dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date:08/25/2015 7:23 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Well I wasn't peed off, just skeptical of those speeds based on my own mediocre experience but kudos to you Sam for doing what one famous America's Cup skipper referred to as No Excuse to Lose...keep up the good sailing and no need to keep quiet from my point of view; I have never seen knot abbreviated as kn, that confused me in conjunction with the numbers so I asked; perhaps I am the one who should have kept quiet Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Well I wasn't peed off, just skeptical of those speeds based on my own mediocre experience but kudos to you Sam for doing what one famous America's Cup skipper referred to as No Excuse to Lose...keep up the good sailing and no need to keep quiet from my point of view; I have never seen knot abbreviated as kn, that confused me in conjunction with the numbers so I asked; perhaps I am the one who should have kept quiet Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) *From: *dwight veinot via CnC-List *Sent: *Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Cc: *dwight veinot *Subject: *Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ *Sweet *mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Sam, Don't let this keep you from posting. Bill Walker CnC 36 Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Tuesday, August 25, 2015 Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%).  OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!)  sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta  ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Oh come on, if you don't exaggerate a bit you're just not a sailor. On the 110%, I've gone with a 120 for years when cruising. It's just easier on everyone with little loss of speed vs. the 135 in lighter air. Whatever we loose in speed we make up for in quick tacking. We're in NY harbor (Battery) so short tacks and chop are the norm as is wind in the 15 range. Even racing we're not shy about using the 120 in the cruising or double handed divisions. Smaller and well trimmed trumps bigger and sloppy. Yes, people here have strong opinions and are a pita at times - until you need those strong opinions from a knowledgeable group. Good luck John Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 6:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: A few things : My genoa is an almost new laminate sail; The main is only 5 short seasons old; I've got a folding propeller ; my bottom is smooth like a babies - I take it out every winter!; I’m measuring speed with a Speed Puck (GPS) The 8kn readings were brief and fleeting (not more than the 10secs to register in the instrument. The 7kn readings did register though, but they were not sustained - like the 6+kn readings were. During this whole time I was beating, which is why I pondered on the possibility of sustaining 7 or 8 on a beam reach. I fairly regularly exceed theoretical hull speed - If you're not, you're not trying ! The 26 is not known to be a fast boat. I've done a lot to get her faster. There are a lot of faster CC's on the water which is why the 26's aren't raced. And yes the 27 is faster! Sorry I pissed so many people off - I'll keep quiet in future! sam :-) From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:44 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! sorry Russ, I thought he said a beam reach must have missed the part about puffs, still that's very fast for a 26 but if he can do it course be damned as you say, then good for him Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Russ Melody via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Hi Dwight, Please reread Sam's message before getting out the pitchforks. He said 7 or 8, in the puffs. I would not characterize puffs as regular... On a prairie lake I think his experience is quite achievable in hot summer conditions when all you want to do is sail fast, course be damned. Cheers, Russ Sweet mk-1 At 10:05 AM 25/08/2015, you wrote: what do you mean by 7kn to 8kn regularly? If you mean 7 knots or 8 knots through the water or over the ground with a CC 26 I would say you should be a race winner every time on corrected time; that is really fast for a CC 26 even on a beam reach and I got a feeling you would probably leave my 35 MKII struggling to stay close behind...before everyone runs out to get a CC 26 are you sure about those numbers; I have only ever seen a couple of CC 26's around here...I don't remember them being quite that slippery, in fact my CC 27 MKIII always seemed to be much faster on all points of sail Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts!  Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the saill plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I ssee the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn)  I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons).  I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster)  The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hulll speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly.  So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
Joel, I'm very impressed. You met Nat Herreshoff? Maybe L. Francis, or Halsey? - Original Message - From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 12:39:44 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Nat Herreshoff spoke at my YC when I was a kid. He said he did not believe in hull speed as a limit. More sail or more wind equals more speed. I was doing more than hull speed (7.3) while cruising on a reach last weekend and have done over 8 knots in flat water with the chute. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: It's theoretical - in real life you can push it a bit! sam :-) From: Indigo via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:24 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Indigo Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! According to the formula 1.34 x square root of lwl the theoretical max speed of my 35mkIII with an lwl of 28ft is 7.06 knots. I'd love to know how to get it going at higher speeds without surfing down the back of a wave!! -- Jonathan Indigo CC 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Aug 25, 2015, at 08:55, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: blockquote 8 knots in a CC 26 with no current on a reach with white sails in 12 knots of wind? Sounds more like a 30 one design. Jerry. CC 27 V JJ. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:15 AM, David Donnelly via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: blockquote I will preface this by saying I consider myself a beginner hack sailor. I have often thought about trading my 135 for a 110. The 26 is tender for sure and I get plenty of grief from my bride whenever we go past 20 degrees. I often furl or reef the main when she is on board, and although performance increases the more upright we get, pointing is severely reduced. My favorite sailplan for over 12 kts is reefed main and full genoa. I do think my boat feels right at 20 to 25 degrees hard on the wind. I have found a bubble in the main to be faster when the wind picks up. Again, a hack playing and watching the speed. I have a harken traveler and I do have a split and adjustable backstay. I have never acheived the speeds you get. I saw over 7.3 kts once on the display while reaching but as I keep a Navionics log on my tablet as well it showed only 6.9 per the gps so I count that as my max speed. When I get new sails I am getting a 110 and perhaps 2 reefs in my main instead of the one I currently have. I think we're on the same page. David Donnelly CC 26 Mistress Sent from my Samsung device Original message From: Sam Salter via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: 08-24-2015 8:34 PM (GMT-07:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Sam Salter sam.c.sal...@gmail.com Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.2kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta blockquote ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
I usually run a 110-115, you give up a little in the mid-range winds, but in light or heavier air I think it's better than running 130+ genoa, plus it's way easier to handle when under-crewed. Have done the same on a 24 and a 27, neither are particularly tender but the same principle applies. Cheers, Paul To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:34:01 -0600 Subject: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: sam.c.sal...@gmail.com I know there’s a few 26 owners on here so thought I’d share my thoughts on optimizing my sail plan. Jump in anyone, I’m open to any thoughts! Was out sailing today, only boat on the lake – I love that! So I thought we’d play around with the sail plan. Wind was 8kn -12kn. (Estimate – I usually think if I see the occasional whitecap it’s around 10kn) I have a 135% laminate genoa from Evolution Sails in Toronto (2 seasons). A Dacron main with 2 full and 2 partial battens from Leiche McBride in Vancouver (5 seasons). I have a flexofold prop; 4-1 outhaul; Garhauer genoa cars; Harken traveller; Cunningham; Garhauer ridged vang; (no backstay adjuster) The CC 26 is a tender boat and we were doing about 5.5kn to 6kn beating to windward at 20deg – 25deg heel. Flattening with the outhaul reduced heel a bit. (speed measured with a Speed Puck) Furled the genoa to about 110%. Just brought the leech forward of the spreaders so no interference. Boat stood up to 13deg to 16deg. Speed was between 5.8kn – 6.4kn. Went up to 7kn or 8kn in the puffs (theoretical hull speed is 6.25kn) No bubble in the luff of the main. Obviously, the furled genoa wasn’t setting great and the starboard tack was better than port tack. On a beam reach I think she’d do 7kn or 8kn regularly. So here’s my thoughts: I’m thinking of getting the genoa recut to a 110% or if that’s not practical (...and I suspect it isn’t) order a new 110%. Eventually a new laminate main will be needed too! I’m well pleased with 6+kns at 10kn of wind and 16deg angle of heel. Very little weather helm I’ve not tried it yet with the genoa at 110% in light wind. In heavy air the main can still be reefed (...as could the 110%). OK guys, am I missing something? (I’m not looking for advice on where to buy used sails!) sam :-) CC 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
