Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

...and a sun shower works great and doesn't use any electrical energy!

Bob

Sent from my iPhone, Bob Boyer

> On Sep 2, 2015, at 12:47 PM, Mitchell's via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I am still chuckling with all the math you guys are doing. The big question I 
> have is: where will you store your spinnaker(s) if you start using your 
> shower? Haha can you tell I sail in fresh water! 
> Len
> 
> Sent from my mobile device.
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Petar Horvatic via CnC-List]

You are talking about taking almost 40AH from your house bank to take a 15 
minute shower.  If your bank is 200AH that’s a 20%.   Not sure if you have 
flooded lead acids or AGMs, but they are around 300-500 cycles.  So it’s a safe 
bet that after 300-500 showers you need to buy new batteries.  If your bank is 
400AH like mine, you could potentially double the amount of showers.  Also 
400AH agm bank is more than 1000$.  

 

As Josh said, inverters are very lossy abut 30-40% of energy is lost.  In 
addition sinusoid produced is hardly that of a 120V residential AC supply.  
Granted heater is just a resistor but its unclear what kind of control 
mechanism and electronics they are using to monitor heating and overheating 
etc.  If things don’t seem to work as expected that would be my first point to 
check.

 

On the other hand, 12V heating elements are not powerfull enough for instant 
water.   You need about 2000W hating element at 12V.  I don’t believe that 
exists.   Few years ago I searched for 12V heating element replacement for 6 
gal seward products water heater.  I was able to buy 450W 12V element on ebay 
that I fitted into the tank instead of the AC element.  It never heated any 
water but I was not expecting it.  I am using to dump access wind generator 
power on sunny days when solars have already filled the house bank.   

 

Petar Horvatic

Sundowner

76 C 38MkII

Newport, RI

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 10:38 AM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

 

I did some rough math and it looks like you'll need ~38Ahrs of power for a 15 
minute shower.  Your inverter will be drawing 150amps through the supply wires 
and your alternator would have to recharge that amount.  With the stock 
alternator (35amps) it would take over and hour.  I do think I remember you 
having an upgraded alternator.  Of course the assumption was that the hot water 
was at full flow for the 15 minute duration.

The instant waterheater is just a resistive load.  It would be more efficient 
and possibly safer to eliminate the inverter from the picture.  It would take 
some electrical and electronics skills to re-engineer the unit to run on 12v 
instead of 120v.

That new water heater really is shockingly smaller.  You'll have to let us know 
how it turns out.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD 

On Aug 31, 2015 10:15 AM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

My hot water tank was failing as well and I’m in the middle of putting in a 
replacement — the hard part was getting the old one out of the tight space 
under the galley. 

 

I decided to go with an on-demand water heater which will either be powered by 
shore power or an inverter (2000W) while the engine is running. Here’s the one 
I picked: http://m.rakuten.com/product/263816304?listingid=337903396 
<http://m.rakuten.com/product/263816304?listingid=337903396=29963=pla_google_Zoro>
 =29963=pla_google_Zoro 

 

And here is old and new side-by-side: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/heaters.jpg 

 

I’ll try to finish it up over the next couple of weeks, but if not, it’ll be a 
quick winter project. 

 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> 

 





On Aug 30, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

 

In most of the little hot water tanks the anode is part of the hot water outlet 
nipple.  Follow the link for pictures of the tank rebuild I did. 

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms/edit

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD 

On Aug 30, 2015 10:26 AM, "phorvati . via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

And make sure you have zinc anodes.  Electrolysis will eat something.  

On Aug 29, 2015 8:51 PM, "Jim Watts via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC does 
not generally give little shocks. 




Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

 

On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water tank.  
The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the heating 
element so I checked the element and it was fried.

I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water after 
about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing that I 
touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating element 
and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checke

Stus-List Hot water tank

[Mitchell's via CnC-List]

I am still chuckling with all the math you guys are doing. The big question I 
have is: where will you store your spinnaker(s) if you start using your shower? 
Haha can you tell I sail in fresh water! 
Len

Sent from my mobile device.
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Ron Ricci via CnC-List]

My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water 
heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the 
battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the unit’s 
rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.  Since my 
alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are only #4 AWG, 
running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.  I do not 
normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on the heater, 
I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.

 

The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine in 
the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is plenty of 
hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.

 

 

Regards,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

  ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 

 




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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water heater.
You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ron Ricci 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
To: 'C List'
Cc: Ron Ricci
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water 
heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the 
battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the unit’s 
rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.  Since my 
alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are only #4 AWG, 
running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.  I do not 
normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on the heater, 
I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.

The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine in 
the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is plenty of 
hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.


Regards,
Ron
Ron Ricci
S/V Patriot
C 37+
Bristol, RI
ron.ri...@1968.usna.com<mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com>




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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Ditto.  The 120 volt receptacles on Touche' are on a rotary switch for
either shore power or inverter.  The inverter cannot be connected to
anything else.

Specifically, the feed to the receptacle breaker is switched so the breaker
remains in the circuit regardless of whether they are supplied by shore
power or the inverter.

The remainder of the AC panel is fed exclusively by shore power.

Dennis C.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water
> heater.
>
> You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron
> Ricci via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
> *To:* 'C List'
> *Cc:* Ron Ricci
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
>
>
>
> My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water
> heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the
> battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the
> unit’s rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.
> Since my alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are
> only #4 AWG, running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.
> I do not normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on
> the heater, I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.
>
>
>
> The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine
> in the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is
> plenty of hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Ron*
>
> Ron Ricci
>
> S/V Patriot
>
> C 37+
>
> Bristol, RI
>
> ron.ri...@1968.usna.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Leslie Paal via CnC-List]

those are 1.8 gpm (some ill guided federal law).  Still barely adequate.  0.5 
gpm would be a fast drip...

Leslie.
just went through an inspection routine here in SoCal.  The city is getting 
really picky...


On Wed, 9/2/15, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: "Danny Haughey" <djhaug...@juno.com>
 Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2015, 1:28 PM
 
 you won't, trust
 me!
  
 People want like 10 gals a minute to feel a luxurious
 shower.  those water saver heads are like .5 gals per
 minute and nobody "likes" those!  LOL
 
 -- Original Message
 --
 From: Jim Watts via CnC-List
 <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: 1 CnC List
 <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 Cc: Jim Watts
 <paradigmat...@gmail.com>
 Subject: Re:
 Stus-List Hot water tank
 Date: Wed, 2 Sep
 2015 13:03:35 -0700
 
 
 The big downside to the instant water
 heaters, besides the electrical draw, is the total
 temperature rise. That unit provides a 32 degree temp rise
 at .35 gpm, dropping to 24 degree rise at .5 gpm, so the
 more flow the cooler it gets. So you can get the water from
 60 to 92 if you can live with a quart a minute flow. Try
 that at home and see if you like it...
 
 
 
 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 C 35 Mk
 III
 Victoria, BC
 
 
 
 On 2 September 2015 at
 11:50, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 I usually wire inverters to not
 supply the battery charger and water heater.
 You may want to change your AC
 wiring to do this.
  Joe
 Coquina
  
 
 
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Ron Ricci via CnC-List
  Sent: Wednesday, September
 02, 2015 1:41 PM
  To:
 'C List'
  Cc:
 Ron Ricci
 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water
 tank
 
 
  
 My boat has a combination 120
 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water heater.  It
 holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on
 the battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is
 consistent with the unit’s rating as the battery voltage
 dropped below 12 VDC when tried.  Since my alternator can
 only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are only #4 AWG,
 running the heater  with shore power does not seem
 practical.  I do not normally have AC shore power.  To
 prevent inadvertently turning on the heater, I disconnected
 the power feed at the circuit breaker.
 
 
  
 The engine coolant part of the
 heater works great.  We can run the engine in the afternoon
 to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is
 plenty of hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick
 showers.
  
  
 Regards,
 Ron
 Ron Ricci
 S/V Patriot
 C 37+
 Bristol, RI
 ron.ri...@1968.usna.com
  
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
  
  Email address:
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
  To change your list preferences, including
 unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:
  http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
  
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
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 unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
 
 

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I got an automatic switch from West Marine that switches back and forth 
depending on the presence of shore power.
You ever see an inverter power a battery charger? The charger is not 100% 
efficient and neither is the inverter, so making an endless loop with the 
inverter powering itself with the charger will always run the batteries dead.

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 4:07 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

Ditto.  The 120 volt receptacles on Touche' are on a rotary switch for either 
shore power or inverter.  The inverter cannot be connected to anything else.
Specifically, the feed to the receptacle breaker is switched so the breaker 
remains in the circuit regardless of whether they are supplied by shore power 
or the inverter.
The remainder of the AC panel is fed exclusively by shore power.

Dennis C.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water heater.
You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On 
Behalf Of Ron Ricci via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
To: 'C List'
Cc: Ron Ricci
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water 
heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the 
battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the unit’s 
rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.  Since my 
alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are only #4 AWG, 
running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.  I do not 
normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on the heater, 
I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.

The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine in 
the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is plenty of 
hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.


Regards,
Ron
Ron Ricci
S/V Patriot
C 37+
Bristol, RI
ron.ri...@1968.usna.com<mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com>





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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

>… so the more flow the cooler it gets..

On Calypso we went overkill for domestic hot water as we wanted to cruise 3 
seasons in the PNW.  We use our Webasto diesel furnace as a boiler supplying 
hot water to a Everhot water heater.  The domestic water flows through 4 to 5 
gallons of very hot water in copper tubing.  When the system is running at full 
speed we can supply as much hot water as there is water in the tanks.  The 
system is heavy and requires extra space but it has been reliable and worth the 
effort.  Even in summer there have been times it was nice to take the chill off 
the cabin at the same time as making hot water for dishes.  We do have a 
“summer” valve that directs the boiler output only to the Everhot keeping the 
cabin heat exchangers cool.

We also have an engine/110 heater 4 gallon hot water heater to make use of the 
engine’s waste heat. Our domestic water manifold allows us to direct the flow 
of cold water based on which system is being used.  If we decide to take the 
boat back to a pure race boat much of the cabin and domestic water heating 
system would need to be removed to save weight.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:04 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Cc: Jim Watts
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

The big downside to the instant water heaters, besides the electrical draw, is 
the total temperature rise. That unit provides a 32 degree temp rise at .35 
gpm, dropping to 24 degree rise at .5 gpm, so the more flow the cooler it gets. 
So you can get the water from 60 to 92 if you can live with a quart a minute 
flow. Try that at home and see if you like it...

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

The big downside to the instant water heaters, besides the electrical draw,
is the total temperature rise. That unit provides a 32 degree temp rise at
.35 gpm, dropping to 24 degree rise at .5 gpm, so the more flow the cooler
it gets. So you can get the water from 60 to 92 if you can live with a
quart a minute flow. Try that at home and see if you like it...

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 2 September 2015 at 11:50, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water
> heater.
>
> You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron
> Ricci via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
> *To:* 'C List'
> *Cc:* Ron Ricci
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
>
>
>
> My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water
> heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the
> battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the
> unit’s rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.
> Since my alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are
> only #4 AWG, running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.
> I do not normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on
> the heater, I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.
>
>
>
> The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine
> in the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is
> plenty of hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Ron*
>
> Ron Ricci
>
> S/V Patriot
>
> C 37+
>
> Bristol, RI
>
> ron.ri...@1968.usna.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

you won't, trust me! People want like 10 gals a minute to feel a luxurious 
shower.  those water saver heads are like .5 gals per minute and nobody "likes" 
those!  LOL

-- Original Message --
From: Jim Watts via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: 1 CnC List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Jim Watts <paradigmat...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:03:35 -0700


The big downside to the instant water heaters, besides the electrical draw, is 
the total temperature rise. That unit provides a 32 degree temp rise at .35 
gpm, dropping to 24 degree rise at .5 gpm, so the more flow the cooler it gets. 
So you can get the water from 60 to 92 if you can live with a quart a minute 
flow. Try that at home and see if you like it...Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
On 2 September 2015 at 11:50, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water heater.
You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
 Joe
Coquina
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ron Ricci 
via CnC-List
 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
 To: 'C List'
 Cc: Ron Ricci
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
 
My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water 
heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the 
battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the 
units rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.  
Since my alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are only #4 
AWG, running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.  I do not 
normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on the heater, 
I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.
 
The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine in 
the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is plenty of 
hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.
 
 
Regards,
Ron
Ron Ricci
S/V Patriot
C 37+
Bristol, RI
ron.ri...@1968.usna.com
 
 
 
 

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Many yachts owned by Congressmen are wired that way.

Dennis C.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I got an automatic switch from West Marine that switches back and forth
> depending on the presence of shore power.
>
> You ever see an inverter power a battery charger? The charger is not 100%
> efficient and neither is the inverter, so making an endless loop with the
> inverter powering itself with the charger will always run the batteries
> dead.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C. via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2015 4:07 PM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Cc:* Dennis C.
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
>
>
>
> Ditto.  The 120 volt receptacles on Touche' are on a rotary switch for
> either shore power or inverter.  The inverter cannot be connected to
> anything else.
>
> Specifically, the feed to the receptacle breaker is switched so the
> breaker remains in the circuit regardless of whether they are supplied by
> shore power or the inverter.
>
> The remainder of the AC panel is fed exclusively by shore power.
>
>
>
> Dennis C.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I usually wire inverters to not supply the battery charger and water
> heater.
>
> You may want to change your AC wiring to do this.
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron
> Ricci via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:41 PM
> *To:* 'C List'
> *Cc:* Ron Ricci
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Hot water tank
>
>
>
> My boat has a combination 120 VAC 1.5 kW electric/engine coolant hot water
> heater.  It holds 6 gallons of fresh water.  For grins, I tried it on the
> battery/inverter and it drew 117 amps DC.  This is consistent with the
> unit’s rating as the battery voltage dropped below 12 VDC when tried.
> Since my alternator can only put out 55 amps and the battery cables are
> only #4 AWG, running the heater  with shore power does not seem practical.
> I do not normally have AC shore power.  To prevent inadvertently turning on
> the heater, I disconnected the power feed at the circuit breaker.
>
>
>
> The engine coolant part of the heater works great.  We can run the engine
> in the afternoon to recharge batteries and/or go to a mooring.  There is
> plenty of hot water for dinner dishes and a couple of quick showers.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Ron*
>
> Ron Ricci
>
> S/V Patriot
>
> C 37+
>
> Bristol, RI
>
> ron.ri...@1968.usna.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Josh,

I did buy the upgraded alternator with the Beta Engine (120amp). The idea was 
that, if needed, a warm shower could be taken and my wife could use her hair 
dryer if the engine is running. These would be rare circumstances though since 
when we do extended cruises, we like to be dockside. 

On shore power, it would be perfect. (I hope)

Will let you know how it all works once I get it all hooked up — probably for 
the 2016 season. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Sep 2, 2015, at 10:38 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I did some rough math and it looks like you'll need ~38Ahrs of power for a 15 
> minute shower.  Your inverter will be drawing 150amps through the supply 
> wires and your alternator would have to recharge that amount.  With the stock 
> alternator (35amps) it would take over and hour.  I do think I remember you 
> having an upgraded alternator.  Of course the assumption was that the hot 
> water was at full flow for the 15 minute duration.
> 
> The instant waterheater is just a resistive load.  It would be more efficient 
> and possibly safer to eliminate the inverter from the picture.  It would take 
> some electrical and electronics skills to re-engineer the unit to run on 12v 
> instead of 120v.
> 
> That new water heater really is shockingly smaller.  You'll have to let us 
> know how it turns out.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> On Aug 31, 2015 10:15 AM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> My hot water tank was failing as well and I’m in the middle of putting in a 
> replacement — the hard part was getting the old one out of the tight space 
> under the galley. 
> 
> I decided to go with an on-demand water heater which will either be powered 
> by shore power or an inverter (2000W) while the engine is running. Here’s the 
> one I picked: 
> http://m.rakuten.com/product/263816304?listingid=337903396=29963=pla_google_Zoro
>  
> 
>  
> 
> And here is old and new side-by-side: 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/heaters.jpg 
>  
> 
> I’ll try to finish it up over the next couple of weeks, but if not, it’ll be 
> a quick winter project. 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> 
> 

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I did some rough math and it looks like you'll need ~38Ahrs of power for a
15 minute shower.  Your inverter will be drawing 150amps through the supply
wires and your alternator would have to recharge that amount.  With the
stock alternator (35amps) it would take over and hour.  I do think I
remember you having an upgraded alternator.  Of course the assumption was
that the hot water was at full flow for the 15 minute duration.

The instant waterheater is just a resistive load.  It would be more
efficient and possibly safer to eliminate the inverter from the picture.
It would take some electrical and electronics skills to re-engineer the
unit to run on 12v instead of 120v.

That new water heater really is shockingly smaller.  You'll have to let us
know how it turns out.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 31, 2015 10:15 AM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> My hot water tank was failing as well and I’m in the middle of putting in
> a replacement — the hard part was getting the old one out of the tight
> space under the galley.
>
> I decided to go with an on-demand water heater which will either be
> powered by shore power or an inverter (2000W) while the engine is running.
> Here’s the one I picked:
> http://m.rakuten.com/product/263816304?listingid=337903396=29963=pla_google_Zoro
>
>
> And here is old and new side-by-side:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/heaters.jpg
>
> I’ll try to finish it up over the next couple of weeks, but if not, it’ll
> be a quick winter project.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> In most of the little hot water tanks the anode is part of the hot water
> outlet nipple.  Follow the link for pictures of the tank rebuild I did.
>
> https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms/edit
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Aug 30, 2015 10:26 AM, "phorvati . via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> And make sure you have zinc anodes.  Electrolysis will eat something.
>> On Aug 29, 2015 8:51 PM, "Jim Watts via CnC-List" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC
>>> does not generally give little shocks.
>>>
>>> Jim Watts
>>> Paradigm Shift
>>> C 35 Mk III
>>> Victoria, BC
>>>
>>> On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>

 I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water
 tank.  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the
 heating element so I checked the element and it was fried.

 I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water
 after about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing
 that I touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

 The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating
 element and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked
 for continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or
 frame and got none.

 So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something.
 Any ideas???

 Thanks,

 Mike
 Atacama 33 mk ii
 Toronto
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de
 Bell.
 ___

>>>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

My hot water tank was failing as well and I’m in the middle of putting in a 
replacement — the hard part was getting the old one out of the tight space 
under the galley. 

I decided to go with an on-demand water heater which will either be powered by 
shore power or an inverter (2000W) while the engine is running. Here’s the one 
I picked: 
http://m.rakuten.com/product/263816304?listingid=337903396=29963=pla_google_Zoro
 

 

And here is old and new side-by-side: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15162917/ENTERPRISE/heaters.jpg 
 

I’ll try to finish it up over the next couple of weeks, but if not, it’ll be a 
quick winter project. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 




> On Aug 30, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> In most of the little hot water tanks the anode is part of the hot water 
> outlet nipple.  Follow the link for pictures of the tank rebuild I did.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms/edit 
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> On Aug 30, 2015 10:26 AM, "phorvati . via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> And make sure you have zinc anodes.  Electrolysis will eat something. 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2015 8:51 PM, "Jim Watts via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC does 
> not generally give little shocks. 
> 
> Jim Watts
> Paradigm Shift
> C 35 Mk III
> Victoria, BC
> 
> On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> 
> I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water tank. 
>  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the heating 
> element so I checked the element and it was fried.
> 
> I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water after 
> about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing that I 
> touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.
> 
> The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating element 
> and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked for 
> continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or frame 
> and got none.
> 
> So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something. Any 
> ideas???
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike
> Atacama 33 mk ii
> Toronto
> Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
> Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
> ___

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Stray current from the marina?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 CC 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 29, 2015 7:15 PM, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water
 tank.  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the
 heating element so I checked the element and it was fried.

 I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water after
 about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing that I
 touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

 The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating
 element and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked
 for continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or
 frame and got none.

 So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something. Any
 ideas???

 Thanks,

 Mike
 Atacama 33 mk ii
 Toronto
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
 ___

 Email address:
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
 bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[phorvati . via CnC-List]

And make sure you have zinc anodes.  Electrolysis will eat something.
On Aug 29, 2015 8:51 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
wrote:

 Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC
 does not generally give little shocks.

 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC

 On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water
 tank.  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the
 heating element so I checked the element and it was fried.

 I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water
 after about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing
 that I touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

 The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating
 element and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked
 for continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or
 frame and got none.

 So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something.
 Any ideas???

 Thanks,

 Mike
 Atacama 33 mk ii
 Toronto
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
 ___

 Email address:
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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 bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

In most of the little hot water tanks the anode is part of the hot water
outlet nipple.  Follow the link for pictures of the tank rebuild I did.

https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ydEpoMU1MWmx6Qms/edit

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 CC 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 30, 2015 10:26 AM, phorvati . via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
wrote:

 And make sure you have zinc anodes.  Electrolysis will eat something.
 On Aug 29, 2015 8:51 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 wrote:

 Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC
 does not generally give little shocks.

 Jim Watts
 Paradigm Shift
 CC 35 Mk III
 Victoria, BC

 On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water
 tank.  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the
 heating element so I checked the element and it was fried.

 I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water
 after about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing
 that I touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

 The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating
 element and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked
 for continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or
 frame and got none.

 So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something.
 Any ideas???

 Thanks,

 Mike
 Atacama 33 mk ii
 Toronto
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
 ___

 Email address:
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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 bottom of page at:
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Stus-List Hot water tank

[Michael Crombie via CnC-List]

I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water tank.  
The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the heating 
element so I checked the element and it was fried. 

I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water after 
about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing that I 
touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock. 

The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating element 
and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked for 
continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or frame and 
got none.

So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something. Any 
ideas???

Thanks,

Mike 
Atacama 33 mk ii
Toronto 
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
___

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Re: Stus-List Hot water tank

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

Put a meter on it and read what kind of voltage you are getting. 110V AC
does not generally give little shocks.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
CC 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 29 August 2015 at 16:15, Michael Crombie via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:


 I'm working my way down my project list and finally got to my hot water
 tank.  The PO just told me that it didn't work.  I was getting 120V at the
 heating element so I checked the element and it was fried.

 I installed a new element and turned it on for a test. Got hot water after
 about 10 min, so I went to close everything up. But when I was doing that I
 touched the pressure relief valve and got a small shock.

 The green ground wire runs to one of the mouting bolts on the heating
 element and also to the water tank frame. So that seems ok. I also checked
 for continuity between the hot and neutral wires and the relief valve or
 frame and got none.

 So i'm puzzled. The shock wasn't big, but i definitely felt something. Any
 ideas???

 Thanks,

 Mike
 Atacama 33 mk ii
 Toronto
 Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
 Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
 ___

 Email address:
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
 bottom of page at:
 http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com


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