Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I know of one lightning strike that happened when a boat was on the hard at the 
same boatyard. The boat was a Bristol 54 I think, very well built and heavily 
bonded and protected for a lightning strike. It had that little lightning 
dissapator on the top of the mast. All of his electronics were fried, a piece 
of toerail with metal rub strip was blown out, one thru hull was close to the 
ground and showed damage from a lightning exit and was laying on the ground 
afterward. It delayed his planned cruise a month but he made out well, 
insurance got him all new electrics and he had the mast pulled and all rod 
reheaded while the repairs were done by the yard. My 34R was thirty feet away 
but the lightning hit his mast and instead of mine cause his was higher and I 
am convinced his boat was also a stronger target because he kept his power cord 
connected, grounding everything to earth ground.

I never leave a power cord connected to my boat when away from my boat for 
several reasons, this being one of them. I charge my batteries when I'm there 
and unplug before leaving. I do use a heatpump AC unit but don't have 
refrigeration so it's worked for me so far.


> On May 4, 2018 at 4:56 PM Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> ABYC makes no specific prescriptions regarding lighting.  As such there 
> is no one "right" way.  One train of thought is to bring the top of the mast 
> to the same potential and the water, effectively drawing lightning to the 
> boat.  Under this methodology you are really proving protection to the 
> occupants.  In order to fully protect you need to ground the shrouds and life 
> line stanchions to so that side stikes don't impact the occupants.  
> Unfortunately this may actually be making the boat more likely to get hit and 
> in our cases blow holes in the hull and sink the boat.  All of this is the 
> same way lightning rods are supposed to work.  The real problem with this 
> methodology is that 1 million volts is difficult to deal with.  The gauge of 
> wire, the bend radius, corrosion, resistance of lead/epoxy/bottom paint, all 
> dictate the path which the lightning chooses to travel and of course remember 
> that it has already traveled multiple miles through a near perfect insulator.
> 
> The other methodology is to insulate the mast from the water so that it 
> is no more likely to be struck.  This leaves the occupants unprotected but 
> ensures that no holes are created.  It may also make a strike less likely.
> 
> As for the stock lightning protection on the 37/40, 37+.  It is/was 
> deplorable.  A 6 gauge wire is bolted to the step (not the mast) and then 
> attched to the forward most keel bolt.  The attachment is in the form of a 
> 1/4-20 bolt welded at the head to one of the washers under the keel bolt nut. 
>  The ground wire has a terminal crimped on and fitted to the 1/4-20 with a  
> nut.  The original wire was not tinned copper and not protected from water 
> intrusion.  To the best of my knowledge my boat has never been struck.
> 
> Josh Muckley 
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:29 AM Alan Liles via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> > > I'm wondering about grounding for lightning protection 
> with an epoxy coated keel. Isn't that why the mast is connected, electrically 
> to the keel. I've had lightning strike very close, which aroused my interest 
> in avoidance of being hit
> > 
> > Al Liles
> > SV Elendil
> > C 37/40+
> > Vancouver 
> > 
> > 
> > On May 3, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > > > Josh is on track.  I just helped fix a 
> > "smile" on a 35-2.   Sanded to bare lead then quickly applied epoxy with a 
> > 3M scrub pad with vigorous rubbing.  Minimizes the oxidation and promotes a 
> > good bond.  Once you get the epoxy on the lead then you can apply barrier 
> > coat, paint, fairing, whatever.
> > > 
> > > Dennis C.
> > > Touche' 35-1 #83
> > > Mandeville, LA
> > > 
> > > On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > > I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy 
> > > into the metal with a wire brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy 
> > > coating is applied (west systems, interprotect, etc) I've been told that 
> > > to ensure proper adhesion between layers you need to apply the next layer 
> > > while the last coating is still soft or tacky.  This includes the first 
> > > coat of bottom paint.
> > > > 
> > > > Josh Muckley 
> > > > S/V Sea Hawk 
> > > > 1989 C 37+
> > > > Solomons, MD 
> > > > 
> 

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

ABYC makes no specific prescriptions regarding lighting.  As such there is
no one "right" way.  One train of thought is to bring the top of the mast
to the same potential and the water, effectively drawing lightning to the
boat.  Under this methodology you are really proving protection to the
occupants.  In order to fully protect you need to ground the shrouds and
life line stanchions to so that side stikes don't impact the occupants.
Unfortunately this may actually be making the boat more likely to get hit
and in our cases blow holes in the hull and sink the boat.  All of this is
the same way lightning rods are supposed to work.  The real problem with
this methodology is that 1 million volts is difficult to deal with.  The
gauge of wire, the bend radius, corrosion, resistance of lead/epoxy/bottom
paint, all dictate the path which the lightning chooses to travel and of
course remember that it has already traveled multiple miles through a near
perfect insulator.

The other methodology is to insulate the mast from the water so that it is
no more likely to be struck.  This leaves the occupants unprotected but
ensures that no holes are created.  It may also make a strike less likely.

As for the stock lightning protection on the 37/40, 37+.  It is/was
deplorable.  A 6 gauge wire is bolted to the step (not the mast) and then
attched to the forward most keel bolt.  The attachment is in the form of a
1/4-20 bolt welded at the head to one of the washers under the keel bolt
nut.  The ground wire has a terminal crimped on and fitted to the 1/4-20
with a  nut.  The original wire was not tinned copper and not protected
from water intrusion.  To the best of my knowledge my boat has never been
struck.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:29 AM Alan Liles via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I'm wondering about grounding for lightning protection with an epoxy
> coated keel. Isn't that why the mast is connected, electrically to the
> keel. I've had lightning strike very close, which aroused my interest in
> avoidance of being hit
>
> Al Liles
> SV Elendil
> C 37/40+
> Vancouver
>
>
> On May 3, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Josh is on track.  I just helped fix a "smile" on a 35-2.   Sanded to bare
> lead then quickly applied epoxy with a 3M scrub pad with vigorous rubbing.
> Minimizes the oxidation and promotes a good bond.  Once you get the epoxy
> on the lead then you can apply barrier coat, paint, fairing, whatever.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a
>> wire brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west
>> systems, interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion
>> between layers you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is
>> still soft or tacky.  This includes the first coat of bottom paint.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old
>>> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I
>>> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier
>>> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the
>>> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom
>>> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>>>
>>> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
>>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>>> 502-584-7255
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> To: C List 
>>> Cc: Josh Muckley 
>>> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>>>
>>> Send us a picture.
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from
>>> the tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there.
>>> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the
>>> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding
>>> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving
>>> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
>>> Yanmar 2gmf.
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use 

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Many years ago a friend treated the bare lead with a red lead paint.  Then he 
used the barrier coat and finally bottom paint.  Held up quite well.No expoxy 
involved in his method.  And fairly straight forward.Is the red lead no longer 
available?RonWild CheriCYC 30-1STL
   
  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Many years ago a friend treated the bare lead with a red lead paint.  Then he 
used the barrier coat and finally bottom paint.  Held up quite well.No expoxy 
involved in his method.Is the red lead no longer available?RonWild CheriCYC 
30-1STL

   
  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Alan Liles via CnC-List]

I'm wondering about grounding for lightning protection with an epoxy coated 
keel. Isn't that why the mast is connected, electrically to the keel. I've had 
lightning strike very close, which aroused my interest in avoidance of being hit

Al Liles
SV Elendil
C 37/40+
Vancouver 


> On May 3, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Josh is on track.  I just helped fix a "smile" on a 35-2.   Sanded to bare 
> lead then quickly applied epoxy with a 3M scrub pad with vigorous rubbing.  
> Minimizes the oxidation and promotes a good bond.  Once you get the epoxy on 
> the lead then you can apply barrier coat, paint, fairing, whatever.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a wire 
>> brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west systems, 
>> interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion between 
>> layers you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is still soft 
>> or tacky.  This includes the first coat of bottom paint.
>> 
>> Josh Muckley 
>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old 
>>> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I 
>>> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier 
>>> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the 
>>> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom 
>>> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>>> 
>>> Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
>>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
>>> 502-584-7255
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> To: C List 
>>> Cc: Josh Muckley 
>>> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>>> 
>>> Send us a picture.
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the 
>>> tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. 
>>> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the 
>>> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding 
>>> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving 
>>> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
>>> Yanmar 2gmf.
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Perhaps the best fix for the C smile is to separate and properly re-mate the 
keel and stub, but this is obviously a big job.  I have been told that the 
reason C smiles are so common is that they did not do a great job with this 
aspect of production.  Sounds right to me.  Not sure if fixing it is worth the 
expense.

From: Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:38 PM
To: C List 
Cc: Dave Godwin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

Watching this thread with interest. Currently have 6,000 lbs of exposed lead 
(yes, not safe or ideal…) sitting in a cradle in the yard. FWIW, a former owner 
of “Ronin” sliced off the top layer of below waterline gelcoat and recoated 
everything with epoxy. And apparently the keel was dropped during this process. 
What is interesting is that epoxy was used when the keel was bolted back up… 

Best,

Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit


  On May 3, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Chris Price via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

  Neill, I've always wetsanded the lead with West Systems epoxy. Then sanded 
for tooth and applied bottom paint. No issues so far. 

  Chris Price 

On May 3, 2018 at 5:26 PM Neil Gallagher via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Richard,

I'm dealing with exactly the same issue, had the bottom soda blasted to 
bare lead and what's left of my gelcoat.  I called Interlux about this, their 
tech rep recommended Interprotect 2000E on both the hull and the lead.  For the 
lead he recommended thinning the first coat 15%-20% with their 2333N thinner so 
it will flow into the cracks, as some of my keel's a bit rough.  Then you can 
fair it and build it up with more barrier coat (the 2000E).

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY



On 5/3/2018 5:11 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:

  To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old 
faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I use 
for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier coat, and 
what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the hull to gelcoat 
and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom paint...any other ideas...? 
Many thanks...



  Richard
  s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...


  Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
  2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
  Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
  502-584-7255


  -Original Message-
  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  To: C List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Cc: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com
  Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf


  Send us a picture. 

  Josh Muckley
  S/V Sea Hawk 
  1989 C 37+
  Solomons, MD 

  On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from 
the tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. 
Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the top 
that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding it down. 
It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving everything 
together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
Yanmar 2gmf.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each 
and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




   

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray






___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your co

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Watching this thread with interest. Currently have 6,000 lbs of exposed lead 
(yes, not safe or ideal…) sitting in a cradle in the yard. FWIW, a former owner 
of “Ronin” sliced off the top layer of below waterline gelcoat and recoated 
everything with epoxy. And apparently the keel was dropped during this process. 
What is interesting is that epoxy was used when the keel was bolted back up…

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

> On May 3, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Chris Price via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Neill, I've always wetsanded the lead with West Systems epoxy. Then sanded 
> for tooth and applied bottom paint. No issues so far. 
> 
> Chris Price 
> 
>> On May 3, 2018 at 5:26 PM Neil Gallagher via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Richard,
>> 
>> I'm dealing with exactly the same issue, had the bottom soda blasted to bare 
>> lead and what's left of my gelcoat.  I called Interlux about this, their 
>> tech rep recommended Interprotect 2000E on both the hull and the lead.  For 
>> the lead he recommended thinning the first coat 15%-20% with their 2333N 
>> thinner so it will flow into the cracks, as some of my keel's a bit rough.  
>> Then you can fair it and build it up with more barrier coat (the 2000E).
>> 
>> Neil Gallagher
>> Weatherly, 35-1
>> Glen Cove, NY
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/3/2018 5:11 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:
>>> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old 
>>> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I 
>>> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier 
>>> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the 
>>> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom 
>>> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>>> 
>>> Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
>>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
>>> 502-584-7255
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
>>> 
>>> To: C List  
>>> Cc: Josh Muckley  
>>> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>>> 
>>> Send us a picture.
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the 
>>> tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. 
>>> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the 
>>> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding 
>>> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving 
>>> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
>>> Yanmar 2gmf.
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>  
> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Chris Price via CnC-List]

Neill, I've always wetsanded the lead with West Systems epoxy. Then sanded for tooth and applied bottom paint. No issues so far. Chris Price On May 3, 2018 at 5:26 PM Neil Gallagher via CnC-List  wrote: Richard,  I'm dealing with exactly the same issue, had the bottom soda blasted to bare lead and what's left of my gelcoat.  I called Interlux about this, their tech rep recommended Interprotect 2000E on both the hull and the lead.  For the lead he recommended thinning the first coat 15%-20% with their 2333N thinner so it will flow into the cracks, as some of my keel's a bit rough.  Then you can fair it and build it up with more barrier coat (the 2000E).  Neil Gallagher Weatherly, 35-1 Glen Cove, NY  On 5/3/2018 5:11 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks... Richard s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard... Richard N. Bush Law Offices  2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462  502-584-7255-Original Message- From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List  To: C List  Cc: Josh Muckley  Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf Send us a picture.Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List  wrote:Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?Yanmar 2gmf.___  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 ___Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Be careful about that first coat of bottom paint.  It depends on the paint.

From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 5:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a wire 
brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west systems, 
interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion between layers 
you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is still soft or tacky. 
 This includes the first coat of bottom paint. 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD 




On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

  To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old faring 
compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I use for a 
sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier coat, and what is 
the best method for application?  I have also taken the hull to gelcoat and 
plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom paint...any other ideas...? Many 
thanks...



  Richard
  s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...


  Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
  2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
  Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
  502-584-7255


  -Original Message-
  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
  To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
  Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf


  Send us a picture. 

  Josh Muckley
  S/V Sea Hawk 
  1989 C 37+
  Solomons, MD 

  On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the 
tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. Pardon 
my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the top that 
seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding it down. It 
seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving everything together 
or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
Yanmar 2gmf.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Kevin Benoit via CnC-List]

I’ll also pile on and say that Josh and Dennis’ method works quite nicely.
It was my boat that Dennis repaired and the epoxy bond to the lead was
quite strong.  I know because I tested it extensively after he was done and
gone and not looking.

Kevin Benoit
S/V Guru
1976 MKII 35’

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 5:02 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Josh is on track.  I just helped fix a "smile" on a 35-2.   Sanded to bare
> lead then quickly applied epoxy with a 3M scrub pad with vigorous rubbing.
> Minimizes the oxidation and promotes a good bond.  Once you get the epoxy
> on the lead then you can apply barrier coat, paint, fairing, whatever.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a
>> wire brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west
>> systems, interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion
>> between layers you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is
>> still soft or tacky.  This includes the first coat of bottom paint.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old
>>> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I
>>> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier
>>> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the
>>> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom
>>> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>>>
>>> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
>>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>>> 502-584-7255
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>> To: C List 
>>> Cc: Josh Muckley 
>>> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>>>
>>> Send us a picture.
>>>
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from
>>> the tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there.
>>> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the
>>> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding
>>> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving
>>> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
>>> Yanmar 2gmf.
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
>>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Kevin Benoit 225-205-2373 Sent from My IPhone
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Josh is on track.  I just helped fix a "smile" on a 35-2.   Sanded to bare
lead then quickly applied epoxy with a 3M scrub pad with vigorous rubbing.
Minimizes the oxidation and promotes a good bond.  Once you get the epoxy
on the lead then you can apply barrier coat, paint, fairing, whatever.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a wire
> brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west systems,
> interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion between
> layers you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is still
> soft or tacky.  This includes the first coat of bottom paint.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old
>> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I
>> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier
>> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the
>> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom
>> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>>
>>
>> Richard
>> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>>
>> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>> 502-584-7255
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>> To: C List 
>> Cc: Josh Muckley 
>> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>>
>> Send us a picture.
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the
>> tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there.
>> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the
>> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding
>> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving
>> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
>> Yanmar 2gmf.
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I believe West Systems suggests scrubbing epoxy into the metal with a wire
brush or a scrubby pad.  Anytime an epoxy coating is applied (west systems,
interprotect, etc) I've been told that to ensure proper adhesion between
layers you need to apply the next layer while the last coating is still
soft or tacky.  This includes the first coat of bottom paint.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Thu, May 3, 2018, 5:11 PM bushmark4--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old
> faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I
> use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier
> coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the
> hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom
> paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...
>
>
> Richard
> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
>
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> To: C List 
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
>
> Send us a picture.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the
> tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there.
> Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the
> top that seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding
> it down. It seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving
> everything together or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
> Yanmar 2gmf.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Persuasion37 via CnC-List]

Richard

A few years back when I fixed the C smile I took my keel down to the bare 
lead.  At that time I read some where that epoxy wouldn’t stick to the lead 
unless it was free of oxidation.  Hard to do with lead.  I also learned that 
the best way to apply the epoxy and get it to bond was to use a wire brush.  I 
put a wire brush on my drill and polished the lead and immediately applied the 
epoxy.  Once the base coat was on I just followed normal epoxy instructions.  
Did that probably 10 years ago and when I applied the bottom paint yesterday 
everything looked liked it did way back when.

Mike
PERSUASION
C 37 K/CB
Long Sault

> On May 3, 2018, at 5:11 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old faring 
> compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I use for 
> a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier coat, and 
> what is the best method for application?  I have also taken the hull to 
> gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom paint...any other 
> ideas...? Many thanks...
> 
> 
> Richard
> s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...
> 
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
> 502-584-7255
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> To: C List 
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf
> 
> Send us a picture.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the 
> tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. Pardon 
> my ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the top that 
> seems to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding it down. It 
> seems to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving everything together 
> or do I need to take the mixing elbow off?
> Yanmar 2gmf.
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Richard,

I'm dealing with exactly the same issue, had the bottom soda blasted to 
bare lead and what's left of my gelcoat.  I called Interlux about this, 
their tech rep recommended Interprotect 2000E on both the hull and the 
lead.  For the lead he recommended thinning the first coat 15%-20% with 
their 2333N thinner so it will flow into the cracks, as some of my 
keel's a bit rough.  Then you can fair it and build it up with more 
barrier coat (the 2000E).


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 5/3/2018 5:11 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:
To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old 
faring compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what 
should I use for a sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on 
a barrier coat, and what is the best method for application?  I have 
also taken the hull to gelcoat and plan to put on a barrier coat and 
new bottom paint...any other ideas...? Many thanks...



Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...

Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf

Send us a picture.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List 
> wrote:


Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak
from the tank to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine.
No leak there. Pardon my ignorance but there is a round attachment
with a gasket on the top that seems to be leaking. There are some
small  screws? bolts? holding it down. It seems to be oozing from
there. Can I tighten them leaving everything together or do I need
to take the mixing elbow off?
Yanmar 2gmf.
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. 
Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support
the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list 
- use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Keel treatment

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

To the group; I have removed all of the old bottom paint and some old faring 
compound from my keel and it is now down to bare lead; what should I use for a 
sealant/primer on the bare metal, before putting on a barrier coat, and what is 
the best method for application?  I have also taken the hull to gelcoat and 
plan to put on a barrier coat and new bottom paint...any other ideas...? Many 
thanks...

 

 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; on the hard...


Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Thu, May 3, 2018 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 2gmf



Send us a picture.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD 


On Thu, May 3, 2018, 12:21 PM Bev Parslow via CnC-List  
wrote:



Seem to be loosing some fuel. The tank is good. There is no leak from the tank 
to the primary filter. It then goes to the engine. No leak there. Pardon my 
ignorance but there is a round attachment with a gasket on the top that seems 
to be leaking. There are some small  screws? bolts? holding it down. It seems 
to be oozing from there. Can I tighten them leaving everything together or do I 
need to take the mixing elbow off?
Yanmar 2gmf.

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray