Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Hi Pete,


I am in the process of doing this right now on Windstar , and so far it is
easier than I expected.


I am:

-replacing my RG58 with RG 213.

-removing the existing multiconductor cabling and replacing with single
conductor wire.  Existing cable was getting pretty battered by the exit,
jacket takes up space, and conductors were bare copper not tinned.  (BTW,
not an issue here on Lake ON after 30 years)

-replacing OE nav lights with Marinebeam LED

-probably will leave out the cabling for the spreader lights.  Neither I
nor the PO used them.

-may run a length of compact coax for a masthead FM antenna.   Just 'cuz.

- I will add a wind instrument, probably next season and will have to
revisit at least part of this at that time


On the 33-ii the wires are run  inside a plastic raceway that mates with a
flange extruded into the inside of the mast.This both complicates and
simplifies things.   Does the 30-2 not have some sort of integral
raceway/conduit for wiring?   The rats' next you describe suggests sounds
like an "improvement" by a prior owner.


I am finding it easier to simply re-do, and fish an entire cable bundle
rather than try to fish one cable at a time.   This solves the stiff coax
challenge and prevent jams snags and frustration.   For that coax, I will
try to exit at my upper spreader slot, and loop down to the antenna.
Failing that I will drill a hole below the antenna and neatly dress the
cable.


Sequence of steps is key  I have spent more time pondering than doing,
and the pondering is time well spent.


Dave



*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *kelly
petew via CnC-List
*Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 5:02 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* kelly petew
*Subject:*




Hello Listers,

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from *Siren Song*, my 30-2.
The rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings,
and rebuilding my Harken furler.

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.



Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled
the wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet.

I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it
with LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [*the hard way*]
that it was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40%
down the mast before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have
removed it, and re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25"
diameter].

I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it
won't happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna.



Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.

In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "*rat's nest*" of wiring just
below the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck
when the mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply
pushed DOWN into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still
beyond arm's length from mast's bottom].



Any "*tips and tricks*", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the
electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and
installing the new.



Fair Winds,



Pete W.

Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[john sandford via CnC-List]

Do you have an internal track for the conduit? Or even are you using a
conduit for the wires.?

I completely rewired my mast last winter. Had just bought the boat in the
spring of 2015, and spent the whole summer listening to the wiring slapping
around inside.

So pulled it all out, along with all the lights, spreaders and rigging.
Basically ended up with a piece of aluminium that I then sanded and painted,
but that’s another story.

The problem was how to get the new wiring, inside a conduit, and secured.

Read everything could find but didn’t want to drill holes In the mast, use
tie wraps, or foam.

Decided that I wanted the weight of the cable harness to be supported by
anything but the cable connections, and knots.

On the top mast plate, I drilled and tapped a hole with ½” NPT, and this
would be the primary place to pull the harness and leave it supported from.

Purchased a stainless steel ‘chinese finger puzzle’ type puller from an
electrical wholesaler. This would end up hanging on an eyebolt from the ½”
npt plug that eventually got screwed in the pulling hole.

Then ran thin leaders from mast top, steaming light, spreaders, etc. to the
bottom.

For a conduit, bought many 6ft lengths of white CPVC (?) pipe. (Total mast
height was <> 50ft I think)

Used ¾ from the Top to the steaming light, and 1” from there down as the
cable bundle got thicker.

Bought very small sail sliders, which were shaved down a bit to fit the
track, and each 6ft section of pipe was notched to take one slider, which
was glued and locked with a tab. The other end of the conduit pipe had a
coupling glued to it, ready for section 2.

With the harness laid on the ground the first pipe section was slid over the
cable, the SS cable puller secured over it, and the a leader attached. The
slider slipped into the track and pulled from the top, one pipe length.

Second section was slipped over the same way, and after ensuring radial
alignment of the sliders, it was glued to the first section.

Repeat as necessary till done. Obviously there are pipe tees involved at the
steaming and spreader heights to allow cable to go to those areas.

At the bottom, my cables exit a large hole to Port about 2” above the base.

It is hard to explain in words, and certainly had lots of learning and
mistakes as I went.

In all we had the entire conduit and cable up and down about 5 times till
was happy with it. Fortunately was able to pull the entire assembled system
out and onto the roadway at the Marina, with a few traffic cones.

At the same time, ran 3 new halyards, and spent hours ensuring they would
have a fair run with no interference of the conduit, or chafing on other
internals.

Did add some pipe insulation around the conduit, about 4” long every 6 ft,
as I was concerned about the conduit flopping side to side with rolling, and
stressing the sail sliders.

Have number of photos, but do not know how to share them here. If you are
interested, let me know and will email them.

I decided to hang the conduit as opposed to trying to secure it along the
length (The drill and pop river method) because I was concerned, among other
things, about the thermal expansion difference between aluminium and PVC. My
math said up to 1/4”.

Sorry for the long story, but it turned out to be a very worthwhile project,
as a) it is silent, b) it needed rewiring anyway c) I wont have to touch it
again in my lifetime.

 

Good luck

John

 

Landfall 38 

 

 

 

From: Ron Ricci [mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com] 
Sent: April-12-17 8:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: 'kelly petew'
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

 

Pete,

 

I rewired my mast several years ago.  Since my lights are all LED’s, the
current draw is very low and #18 is fine.  I used Alpha 1897C SL005 where I
needed two conductors (such as Windex light) and Alpha 1898C 3C for three
conductors (such as foredeck/steaming light).  These cables are PVC jacketed
and have tinned copper conductors.  To me having cables is better than
individual conductors and these cables are smaller than multiple conductor
boat cable.

 

If you have a rat’s nest of wires, I’d consider pulling everything out.  If
possible leave a wire for a messenger or get a snake.

 

Good luck,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

 <mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com> ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of kelly
petew via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 5:02 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: kelly petew
Subject: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

 

Hello Listers, 

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from Siren Song, my 30-2.  The
rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings, and
rebuilding my Harken furler.  

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.

 

Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled
the wires, marked fitting

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

+1 on MarineBeam products.  I did my mast last year, and have been very happy 
with the results.  Don’t go with less-expensive or unproven products for this; 
it’s something you won’t want to have to redo a few years down the road.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 12, 2017, at 11:03 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Consider Marine Beam products or similar quality, especially for the mast. 
> Lower quality / cheaper LED set ups could provide a ton of interference with 
> your VHF signal / antenna, assuming you have one a the to top of you mast. In 
> general newer LED's seem to be reducing this concern however. 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:58 AM kelly petew via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> Ron, Hi,
> 
> thanks very much for your feedback.  
> 
> I am going to install LEDs, but I am not familiar with Alpha; I'll need to do 
> some research.  thanks.
> 
> I have removed the vhf cable only, at this point.
> 
> If I can't remove the "nest", I may simply "freshen" the terminals and stay 
> with the existing wires. 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> Pete 
> 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Consider Marine Beam products or similar quality, especially for the mast.
Lower quality / cheaper LED set ups could provide a ton of interference
with your VHF signal / antenna, assuming you have one a the to top of you
mast. In general newer LED's seem to be reducing this concern however.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:58 AM kelly petew via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Ron, Hi,

thanks very much for your feedback.

I am going to install LEDs, but I am not familiar with Alpha; I'll need to
do some research.  thanks.

I have removed the vhf cable only, at this point.

If I can't remove the "nest", I may simply "freshen" the terminals and stay
with the existing wires.


thanks again!


Pete


--
*From:* Ron Ricci <ron.ri...@1968.usna.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:29 AM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* 'kelly petew'
*Subject:* RE: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice


Pete,



I rewired my mast several years ago.  Since my lights are all LED’s, the
current draw is very low and #18 is fine.  I used Alpha 1897C SL005 where I
needed two conductors (such as Windex light) and Alpha 1898C 3C for three
conductors (such as foredeck/steaming light).  These cables are PVC
jacketed and have tinned copper conductors.  To me having cables is better
than individual conductors and these cables are smaller than multiple
conductor boat cable.



If you have a rat’s nest of wires, I’d consider pulling everything out.  If
possible leave a wire for a messenger or get a snake.



Good luck,

*Ron*

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

ron.ri...@1968.usna.com







*From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *kelly
petew via CnC-List
*Sent:* Monday, April 10, 2017 5:02 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* kelly petew
*Subject:* Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice



Hello Listers,

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from *Siren Song*, my 30-2.
The rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings,
and rebuilding my Harken furler.

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.



Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled
the wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet.

I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it
with LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [*the hard way*]
that it was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40%
down the mast before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have
removed it, and re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25"
diameter].

I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it
won't happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna.



Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.

In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "*rat's nest*" of wiring just
below the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck
when the mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply
pushed DOWN into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still
beyond arm's length from mast's bottom].



Any "*tips and tricks*", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the
electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and
installing the new.



Fair Winds,



Pete W.

Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[kelly petew via CnC-List]

Ron, Hi,

thanks very much for your feedback.

I am going to install LEDs, but I am not familiar with Alpha; I'll need to do 
some research.  thanks.

I have removed the vhf cable only, at this point.

If I can't remove the "nest", I may simply "freshen" the terminals and stay 
with the existing wires.


thanks again!


Pete



From: Ron Ricci <ron.ri...@1968.usna.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: 'kelly petew'
Subject: RE: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice


Pete,



I rewired my mast several years ago.  Since my lights are all LED’s, the 
current draw is very low and #18 is fine.  I used Alpha 1897C SL005 where I 
needed two conductors (such as Windex light) and Alpha 1898C 3C for three 
conductors (such as foredeck/steaming light).  These cables are PVC jacketed 
and have tinned copper conductors.  To me having cables is better than 
individual conductors and these cables are smaller than multiple conductor boat 
cable.



If you have a rat’s nest of wires, I’d consider pulling everything out.  If 
possible leave a wire for a messenger or get a snake.



Good luck,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

ron.ri...@1968.usna.com<mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com>







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of kelly petew 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 5:02 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: kelly petew
Subject: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice



Hello Listers,

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from Siren Song, my 30-2.  The 
rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings, and 
rebuilding my Harken furler.

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.



Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled the 
wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet.

I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it with 
LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [the hard way] that it 
was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40% down the mast 
before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have removed it, and 
re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25" diameter].

I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it won't 
happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna.



Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.

In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "rat's nest" of wiring just below 
the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck when the 
mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply pushed DOWN 
into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still beyond arm's length 
from mast's bottom].



Any "tips and tricks", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the 
electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and 
installing the new.



Fair Winds,



Pete W.

Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[Ron Ricci via CnC-List]

Pete,

 

I rewired my mast several years ago.  Since my lights are all LED's, the
current draw is very low and #18 is fine.  I used Alpha 1897C SL005 where I
needed two conductors (such as Windex light) and Alpha 1898C 3C for three
conductors (such as foredeck/steaming light).  These cables are PVC jacketed
and have tinned copper conductors.  To me having cables is better than
individual conductors and these cables are smaller than multiple conductor
boat cable.

 

If you have a rat's nest of wires, I'd consider pulling everything out.  If
possible leave a wire for a messenger or get a snake.

 

Good luck,

Ron

Ron Ricci

S/V Patriot

C 37+

Bristol, RI

 <mailto:ron.ri...@1968.usna.com> ron.ri...@1968.usna.com

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of kelly
petew via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 5:02 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: kelly petew
Subject: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

 

Hello Listers, 

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from Siren Song, my 30-2.  The
rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings, and
rebuilding my Harken furler.  

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.

 

Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled
the wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet.  

I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it
with LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [the hard way]
that it was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40%
down the mast before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have
removed it, and re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25" diameter].


I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it
won't happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna.  

 

Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.  

In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "rat's nest" of wiring just
below the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck
when the mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply
pushed DOWN into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still
beyond arm's length from mast's bottom].  

 

Any "tips and tricks", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the
electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and
installing the new.  

 

Fair Winds,

 

Pete W.

Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Pete — do you have conduit inside the mast, or are you pulling through the mast 
without?  Based on your description of the “rat’s nest” you found, I’d guess 
maybe no conduit?

An electrical “fish tape” can be your best friend when doing this work.  If 
you’re going to replace the mast lighting, you could probably get away with 
16AWG wire for everything except maybe a common ground wire for some fixtures; 
if you have conduit, just pull out the needed length plus some extra off spools 
and get them all laid out nicely together, then pull the bundle up (or down) 
with the fish tape.  With no conduit, you can either bundle ALL of the wires 
going up the mast together, splitting off the steaming/deck light and any other 
wires that need to come off at the spreaders; or you can use multi conductor 
wire with the needed number of conductors all bundled in a jacket.  Put three 
cable ties with the ends left on every fifteen inches along the bundle, with 
the ends pointing out at 120° intervals; this will keep the bundle from 
slapping inside the mast.

Speaking from experience, the best thing you can do is to get ANY miscellaneous 
junk, including old wire and insulation, out of the mast before you start.  It 
doesn’t take much to snag on your bundle as you pull, causing a huge mess…  
Your fish tape can be your friend here, too, along with a powerful flashlight 
to see way into the mast.  If you can remove your mast cap (mine is welded 
on…), that makes things even easier.

— Fred



Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 4:02 PM, kelly petew via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Listers, 
> First, some background --
> Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from Siren Song, my 30-2.  The 
> rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings, and 
> rebuilding my Harken furler. 
> Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.
> 
> Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled the 
> wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet. 
> I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it 
> with LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [the hard way] 
> that it was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40% down 
> the mast before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have removed it, 
> and re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25" diameter].  
> I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it 
> won't happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna. 
> 
> Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.  
> In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "rat's nest" of wiring just 
> below the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck 
> when the mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply 
> pushed DOWN into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still 
> beyond arm's length from mast's bottom]. 
> 
> Any "tips and tricks", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the 
> electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and 
> installing the new. 
> 
> Fair Winds,
> 
> Pete W.
> Siren Song
> '91 C 30-2
> Deltaville, Va.
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Mast Re-Wire -- Need Advice

[kelly petew via CnC-List]

Hello Listers,

First, some background --

Earlier this year, I had the mast extracted from Siren Song, my 30-2.  The 
rigger has completed his work, replacing the rod rigging and fittings, and 
rebuilding my Harken furler.

Also, I just finished painting the mast and spreaders with a one-part paint.


Now, I want to rewire the mast.  Preparatory to the extraction, I labeled the 
wires, marked fittings and blocks, and took MANY pics on my tablet.

I have removed the old VHF cabling, but I was unsuccessful in replacing it with 
LMR-400 [.405" dia.].  For other 30-2 owners, I found [the hard way] that it 
was too stiff and too big to fit.  I could only get it about 40% down the mast 
before it became hopelessly stucked.  Therefore, I have removed it, and 
re-ordered original type of cabling [rg-8x, .25" diameter].

I was hoping to get the enhance performance from the lmr cabling, but it won't 
happen, unfortunately.  I will replace the vhf antenna.


Now, I'm planning to replace electrical wires as well as light fixtures.

In doing a preliminary inspection, I found a "rat's nest" of wiring just below 
the mast's exit hole, which lines up with the underside of the deck when the 
mast is in the boat.  It looks as though excess wiring was simply pushed DOWN 
into the mast, and over time sagged further down [but still beyond arm's length 
from mast's bottom].


Any "tips and tricks", including the best tools to use for re-wiring the 
electricals will be greatly appreciated, i.e., extracting the old stuff and 
installing the new.


Fair Winds,


Pete W.

Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!