Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

An alternative is to wait out for the regular West Marine or Defender 2 for 1 
sale on winches……….I’m not a fan of replacing old out of date equipment with 
more out of date equipment…….

I replaced my Barient collection on my 38MKII over the years and finally went 
with a 4 speed power winch from Pontos. Pontos was acquired by Karver in 2018 
and they have improved that line since.  I bought mine from Defender and we 
continually are amazed at the speed and power these winches provide.  My 150 
Genoa tacks with 1 crewman releasing and winching on the new side easily.  
Pontos used to have a video of how they worked, I didn’t look for it but the 
winches work just like that video.

 

Added note, all of my Barients are available, but shipping is a costly issue.  
Let me know if you’re interested.

 

Just an alternate suggestion.

 

Ron C

 

 

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 6:46 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dean McNeill 
Subject: Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

 

Thanks Rick! 

 

Very helpful information…. I’ll certainly look into that self-tailing 
conversion kit paired to the 28’s…. Good idea.

 

Dean

 

On Jul 29, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Dean,

 

There is a Barient Winch catalog available on the L-26 website at Barient 
Catalog (l-36.com) <https://l-36.com/barient_catalog.php> . You might want to 
save a copy for future reference.

 

Most of the winch equivalency charts I’ve bookmarked over the past 30 years are 
no longer active on the web, But the information in the Barient catalog gives 
some useful information. BTW, L-36 also has a Barient equivalent chart, but it 
only goes as high as the 22 standard winch, but not the 25, 27, 28, 32’s that 
are common on the bigger C

 

For a 34’ boat with approximate sail area of 470 sq ft, the catalog recommends 
a Barient 25 genoa sheet winch for cruisers, or a 27 for racers. As someone 
else has mentioned, the Barient winches used a different numbering system than 
is presently common. The current system is to use the power ratio of the winch 
in the lowest gear as a model number. So a Lewmar 42 2-speed winch has a power 
ration of about 42:1 in low gear.

 

IIRC, that is calculated using a 10” winch handle. (The longer the handle, the 
more mechanical advantage you have. The average person can put about 50 pounds 
of effort on the winch handle when cranking. With a 10” handle, you get (10”- ½ 
the drum diameter) X 50 = inch pounds of torque to power the winch.  An 8” 
winch handle – which I need to use because of obstructions near the primary 
winches – result in about 30% less input power.) 

 

According to the Barient catalog on L-36, the 25 has a power ratio of 44:1 with 
a 10 inch handle. So replacement winches in the new current system would be in 
the 44 range. The Power ratio of the 27 (recommended for racers) is 46:1, so 
that would be an appropriate size range if you are looking for easier tailing, 
or are using an 8” winch handle.

 

BTW, the Barient catalog has a spec listed that they called the “Power 
Advantage Rating”. It is pretty much a measure of how many pounds of tension 
that the winch can put on the sheet when in low gear when cranked by an average 
person. For the 25, it is about 2300 pounds. The 27 is 2900. The 28 is 3450 
even  though the power ratio is lower than for the 27. And the 32 is 3950 
pounds.

 

For what it is worth, if you upgrade to the 28 winches mentioned by a couple of 
the others, a company called Winchmate offers a kit for conversion of the 
standard winch to self-tailing. Cost is about $500 per kit,  so for about $1000 
plus the cost of the 28 standard winches you can upgrade quite a bit. Probably 
for less than a pair of new self-tailing winches is going to cost. That is what 
I plan to do with the 28s and 32s on my 38.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List [ <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:51 PM
To: Stus-List < <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Dean McNeill < <mailto:d...@deanmc.ca> d...@deanmc.ca>
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Winch replacement

 

Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on my 
1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones. Anyone 
with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar mounting holes 
that would save me some work? Really interested in what others have done and 
recommend.

 

Thanks, Dean

 

C 34

BarraWind

Halifax, NS, Canada

 

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Dean McNeill via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick! 

Very helpful information…. I’ll certainly look into that self-tailing 
conversion kit paired to the 28’s…. Good idea.

Dean

> On Jul 29, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Dean,
>  
> There is a Barient Winch catalog available on the L-26 website at Barient 
> Catalog (l-36.com) . You might want to 
> save a copy for future reference.
>  
> Most of the winch equivalency charts I’ve bookmarked over the past 30 years 
> are no longer active on the web, But the information in the Barient catalog 
> gives some useful information. BTW, L-36 also has a Barient equivalent chart, 
> but it only goes as high as the 22 standard winch, but not the 25, 27, 28, 
> 32’s that are common on the bigger C
>  
> For a 34’ boat with approximate sail area of 470 sq ft, the catalog 
> recommends a Barient 25 genoa sheet winch for cruisers, or a 27 for racers. 
> As someone else has mentioned, the Barient winches used a different numbering 
> system than is presently common. The current system is to use the power ratio 
> of the winch in the lowest gear as a model number. So a Lewmar 42 2-speed 
> winch has a power ration of about 42:1 in low gear.
>  
> IIRC, that is calculated using a 10” winch handle. (The longer the handle, 
> the more mechanical advantage you have. The average person can put about 50 
> pounds of effort on the winch handle when cranking. With a 10” handle, you 
> get (10”- ½ the drum diameter) X 50 = inch pounds of torque to power the 
> winch.  An 8” winch handle – which I need to use because of obstructions near 
> the primary winches – result in about 30% less input power.) 
>  
> According to the Barient catalog on L-36, the 25 has a power ratio of 44:1 
> with a 10 inch handle. So replacement winches in the new current system would 
> be in the 44 range. The Power ratio of the 27 (recommended for racers) is 
> 46:1, so that would be an appropriate size range if you are looking for 
> easier tailing, or are using an 8” winch handle.
>  
> BTW, the Barient catalog has a spec listed that they called the “Power 
> Advantage Rating”. It is pretty much a measure of how many pounds of tension 
> that the winch can put on the sheet when in low gear when cranked by an 
> average person. For the 25, it is about 2300 pounds. The 27 is 2900. The 28 
> is 3450 even  though the power ratio is lower than for the 27. And the 32 is 
> 3950 pounds.
>  
> For what it is worth, if you upgrade to the 28 winches mentioned by a couple 
> of the others, a company called Winchmate offers a kit for conversion of the 
> standard winch to self-tailing. Cost is about $500 per kit,  so for about 
> $1000 plus the cost of the 28 standard winches you can upgrade quite a bit. 
> Probably for less than a pair of new self-tailing winches is going to cost. 
> That is what I plan to do with the 28s and 32s on my 38.
>  
> Rick Brass
> Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47
> la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225
> Washington, NC
>  
>  
>  
> From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> ] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:51 PM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Dean McNeill mailto:d...@deanmc.ca>>
> Subject: Stus-List C 34 Winch replacement
>  
> Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on my 
> 1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones. Anyone 
> with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar mounting 
> holes that would save me some work? Really interested in what others have 
> done and recommend.
>  
> Thanks, Dean
>  
> C 34
> BarraWind
> Halifax, NS, Canada



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Barient 28+,  2 speed self tailing work very well on my 35MKII

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 4:31 PM Stu via CnC-List 
wrote:

> There is a lot of info on winches on the Photo Album site. Scroll down
> left side and click on "Winches".
>
> Stu
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Stu via CnC-List]

There is a lot of info on winches on the Photo Album site. Scroll down 
left side and click on "Winches".


Stu

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Rick -- lots of very good information!
My 2 cent addition to the conversation.  My 81 C hasself tailing Lewmar 42s 
for primary.  They work fine, but as I get older, it gets more difficult to 
drive and winch when I go out alone.  I lift weights over the winter so I can 
still do it -- great motivator!  Moral of the story -- think ahead if you 
intend to keep the boat past when you are about 65 and get bigger winches than 
you need now.

Jeff Laman
81 C
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 3:10 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement


Dean,



There is a Barient Winch catalog available on the L-26 website at Barient 
Catalog 
(l-36.com)<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fl-36.com%2Fbarient_catalog.php=05%7C01%7C%7Cd7ce8dcfd593433d8b5f08da719607a6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637947186432628229%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=WbczCQUZnFaSQeMGKuypFT1pZudt8TEV8Org7Fj5v4Q%3D=0>.
 You might want to save a copy for future reference.



Most of the winch equivalency charts I’ve bookmarked over the past 30 years are 
no longer active on the web, But the information in the Barient catalog gives 
some useful information. BTW, L-36 also has a Barient equivalent chart, but it 
only goes as high as the 22 standard winch, but not the 25, 27, 28, 32’s that 
are common on the bigger C



For a 34’ boat with approximate sail area of 470 sq ft, the catalog recommends 
a Barient 25 genoa sheet winch for cruisers, or a 27 for racers. As someone 
else has mentioned, the Barient winches used a different numbering system than 
is presently common. The current system is to use the power ratio of the winch 
in the lowest gear as a model number. So a Lewmar 42 2-speed winch has a power 
ration of about 42:1 in low gear.



IIRC, that is calculated using a 10” winch handle. (The longer the handle, the 
more mechanical advantage you have. The average person can put about 50 pounds 
of effort on the winch handle when cranking. With a 10” handle, you get (10”- ½ 
the drum diameter) X 50 = inch pounds of torque to power the winch.  An 8” 
winch handle – which I need to use because of obstructions near the primary 
winches – result in about 30% less input power.)



According to the Barient catalog on L-36, the 25 has a power ratio of 44:1 with 
a 10 inch handle. So replacement winches in the new current system would be in 
the 44 range. The Power ratio of the 27 (recommended for racers) is 46:1, so 
that would be an appropriate size range if you are looking for easier tailing, 
or are using an 8” winch handle.



BTW, the Barient catalog has a spec listed that they called the “Power 
Advantage Rating”. It is pretty much a measure of how many pounds of tension 
that the winch can put on the sheet when in low gear when cranked by an average 
person. For the 25, it is about 2300 pounds. The 27 is 2900. The 28 is 3450 
even  though the power ratio is lower than for the 27. And the 32 is 3950 
pounds.



For what it is worth, if you upgrade to the 28 winches mentioned by a couple of 
the others, a company called Winchmate offers a kit for conversion of the 
standard winch to self-tailing. Cost is about $500 per kit,  so for about $1000 
plus the cost of the 28 standard winches you can upgrade quite a bit. Probably 
for less than a pair of new self-tailing winches is going to cost. That is what 
I plan to do with the 28s and 32s on my 38.



Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC







From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:51 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dean McNeill 
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Winch replacement



Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on my 
1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones. Anyone 
with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar mounting holes 
that would save me some work? Really interested in what others have done and 
recommend.



Thanks, Dean



C 34

BarraWind

Halifax, NS, Canada

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Dean,

 

There is a Barient Winch catalog available on the L-26 website at
 Barient Catalog (l-36.com). You might
want to save a copy for future reference.

 

Most of the winch equivalency charts I’ve bookmarked over the past 30 years
are no longer active on the web, But the information in the Barient catalog
gives some useful information. BTW, L-36 also has a Barient equivalent
chart, but it only goes as high as the 22 standard winch, but not the 25,
27, 28, 32’s that are common on the bigger C

 

For a 34’ boat with approximate sail area of 470 sq ft, the catalog
recommends a Barient 25 genoa sheet winch for cruisers, or a 27 for racers.
As someone else has mentioned, the Barient winches used a different
numbering system than is presently common. The current system is to use the
power ratio of the winch in the lowest gear as a model number. So a Lewmar
42 2-speed winch has a power ration of about 42:1 in low gear.

 

IIRC, that is calculated using a 10” winch handle. (The longer the handle,
the more mechanical advantage you have. The average person can put about 50
pounds of effort on the winch handle when cranking. With a 10” handle, you
get (10”- ½ the drum diameter) X 50 = inch pounds of torque to power the
winch.  An 8” winch handle – which I need to use because of obstructions
near the primary winches – result in about 30% less input power.) 

 

According to the Barient catalog on L-36, the 25 has a power ratio of 44:1
with a 10 inch handle. So replacement winches in the new current system
would be in the 44 range. The Power ratio of the 27 (recommended for racers)
is 46:1, so that would be an appropriate size range if you are looking for
easier tailing, or are using an 8” winch handle.

 

BTW, the Barient catalog has a spec listed that they called the “Power
Advantage Rating”. It is pretty much a measure of how many pounds of tension
that the winch can put on the sheet when in low gear when cranked by an
average person. For the 25, it is about 2300 pounds. The 27 is 2900. The 28
is 3450 even  though the power ratio is lower than for the 27. And the 32 is
3950 pounds.

 

For what it is worth, if you upgrade to the 28 winches mentioned by a couple
of the others, a company called Winchmate offers a kit for conversion of the
standard winch to self-tailing. Cost is about $500 per kit,  so for about
$1000 plus the cost of the 28 standard winches you can upgrade quite a bit.
Probably for less than a pair of new self-tailing winches is going to cost.
That is what I plan to do with the 28s and 32s on my 38.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk2 #47

la Belle Aurore  C 25 mk1 #225

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:51 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dean McNeill 
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Winch replacement

 

Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on
my 1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones.
Anyone with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar
mounting holes that would save me some work? Really interested in what
others have done and recommend.

 

Thanks, Dean

 

C 34

BarraWind

Halifax, NS, Canada

 

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Unless you really want new winches, there are lots of used options.  Don't
be reluctant to fill the holes and make new ones.  Be patient.  Set up a
saved search on eBay.  Search Craigslist nationwide using a search engine
like: https://searchcraigslist.org/

Here's a quick result.  There are others:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/seattle-self-tailing-speed-sailboat/7507984860.html

For example, I upgraded Touche's alloy winches to chrome bronze and
stainless winches a few years ago.  Granted, they were all non-self
tailing, but here's what I got:

2 Barlow 28's chrome bronze (primaries)
2 Barlow 26 chrome bronze (secondaries)
2 Barient 22 stainless (cabin top)

All for $1100 plus a bit of shipping.  They were all in good condition.
Since I was replacing Barlows for the primaries and secondaries, I didn't
have to fill the holes.  I did for the cabin top winches.  Also, Barients
and Barlows may seem identical but they aren't.
-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

I replaced the winches on my 34 with Andersen 2 Speed 50ST Full Stainless
Self-Tailing Winches two years ago. It did require filling the holes and
redrilling.  As this was part of a deck repaint with all hardware off, I
ground out fiberglass in a taper around each hole, filled the hole in the
plywood with thickened epoxy and layed in new glass and epoxy on top to
make a strong repair.  Finally sand and fill as required to smooth out the
top before repainting and then drilling installing the new winches.

The Anderson 50ST size is very nice and fits the boat well.  If I was to do
it again, I would probably go with Lewmar instead (not sure which size is
equivalent but you could look that up) - I thought that the Anderson all
stainless design would be nice, but the lines actually don't release very
smoothly under load if you want to ease a sheet. It tends to stick and then
release suddenly. The high end Lewmar winches are likely worth the price
difference for smoother operation.

Nathan

~~~
Nathan Post
S/V Wisper
C 34 CB
Lynn, MA

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[Riley Anderson via CnC-List]

Replaced our Barient 28 primaries with Lewmar 46 self tailing. Power factor
increased but drum diameter decreased. I can't tell the difference in terms
of cranking effort but then again we also don't use a genoa bigger than 130
(no racing, only cruising). The main reason for the switch was to have self
tailing.

West Marine has a buy one get one free sale every spring (March) on Lewmar
winches. No matter what you get, you'll almost certainly need to fill the
old holes and should drill/fill/drill the new holes. The alignment is
critical too, the main drive gear has to be positioned in line with the
load.

If you want a set of stainless Barient 28 two speed non self tailing
winches, send me an email and we can make a deal.

Cheers,

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022, 11:52 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on
> my 1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones.
> Anyone with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar
> mounting holes that would save me some work? Really interested in what
> others have done and recommend.
>
> Thanks, Dean
>
> C 34
> BarraWind
> Halifax, NS, Canada
>
>

Stus-List Re: C 34 Winch replacement

[John Read via CnC-List]

I found the 25 was insufficient as primary winch so replaced with Barient 28
which I picked up second hand.  Moved the 25's to secondary placement and
the 22's one to main sheet.  Yes  involved new holes but a tremendous
improvement especially for the 155 genoa and spinnaker.  None are self
tailing.  I both race and cruise

 

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 11:51 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Dean McNeill
Subject: Stus-List C 34 Winch replacement

 

Looking to replace the original Barient 25 double speed primary winches on
my 1980 C 34 over the off season with similar sized self-tailing ones.
Anyone with a similar boat find a good replacement with same or similar
mounting holes that would save me some work? Really interested in what
others have done and recommend.

 

Thanks, Dean

 

C 34

BarraWind

Halifax, NS, Canada