Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
I agree that the threads on the aluminum plate are likely the weak link, but the plate is pretty thick (0.4”) so lots of threads. Also, that winch is used exclusively to raise and lower the main, so not a lot of stress on it since once the main is up, the clutch takes over. It made it so I could easily raise the main solo from the cockpit with my eWincher while manipulating the boom to prevent the sail hanging up on the lazy jacks. Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT > On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:14 PM, Matthew Wolford via CnC-List > wrote: > > That is a cool approach, but if I understand how it was done, the weak link > IMHO is that tapped aluminum is holding the new winch. > > From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 2:42 PM > To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> > Subject: Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches? > > Hey David, > That's cool. You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes > through the deck. That's a cool trick. > > Thanks, > Chuck S > > >> On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: >> >> >> When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I >> decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch. So I bought a >> circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it >> in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match >> the new winch base to secure the new winch base. I am happy with the >> result. Dave >> >> S/V Aries >> 1990 C 34+ >> New London, CT >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List >>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on >>> my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. >>> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to >>> fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or >>> plywood backing plates. >>> >>> Any other hints and tips? >>> >>> Thanks, Dean >>> BarraWind >>> 1980 C 34 >>> Halifax, NS >>> >>> >>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and >>> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: >>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> >>> Thanks for your help. >>> Stu >> >> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and >> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: >> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> >> Thanks for your help. >> Stu > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Thanks everyone, some great hints and suggestions here. I’m a little less worried about the switch after reading all these comments. I’ll be sure to let you all know how it works out! Cheers, Dean Barrawind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS _ Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Dean, I switched from the original Barient to Lewmar ST winches, the 35-1 has them mounted on the raised cockpit coaming top where access is pretty good underneath, no liner, plus the coaming top has wood sandwiched in it, maybe 3/4" thick or so. It just happened that the old and new holes were quite close together, so I made backing plates from fiberglass board, 1/2" thick, bigger in diameter than the winch base, which I epoxied under the coaming top. Once that was in I just filled the old holes with epoxy and drilled through for the new winch. Pretty sure they're not going anywhere. The board came from McMaster Carr, not really cheap but makes nice backing plates. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/fiberglass-boards/structural-frp-fiberglass-sheets-bars-and-strips/ Neil Gallagher Weatherly, 35-1 Glen Cove, NY From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 8:24 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Dean McNeill Subject: Stus-List Hints on swapping winches? I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
That is a cool approach, but if I understand how it was done, the weak link IMHO is that tapped aluminum is holding the new winch. From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 2:42 PM To: Stus-List Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER Subject: Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches? Hey David, That's cool. You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes through the deck. That's a cool trick. Thanks, Chuck S On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch. So I bought a circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match the new winch base to secure the new winch base. I am happy with the result. Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Hey David, That's cool. You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes through the deck. That's a cool trick. Thanks, Chuck S > On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List > wrote: > > > When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I > decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch. So I bought a > circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it > in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match > the new winch base to secure the new winch base. I am happy with the result. > Dave > > S/V Aries > 1990 C 34+ > New London, CT > > > > > On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > > > I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on > > my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. > > Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to > > fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or > > plywood backing plates. > > > > Any other hints and tips? > > > > Thanks, Dean > > BarraWind > > 1980 C 34 > > Halifax, NS > > > > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and > > help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > Thanks for your help. > > Stu > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch. So I bought a circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match the new winch base to secure the new winch base. I am happy with the result. Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT > On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List > wrote: > > I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my > C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. > Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill > old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood > backing plates. > > Any other hints and tips? > > Thanks, Dean > BarraWind > 1980 C 34 > Halifax, NS > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
When I relocated our winches, I used a trick from the West System manual to get a nice flat surface for the winch on a crowned coachtop. I epoxied 1/4" piece of G-10, cut to the size of the winch base and epoxied that to the coach roof. Before glassing it down, I located the holes in the plate and on the coachroof. To seal the core, I drilled those holes to 3/4", dug out the balsa a further 1/4 back taped underneath, and primed with neat epoxy, and filled the whole cavity with thickened epoxy. I epoxied the plate on to the coachtop and after it was cured, drilled the proper sized holes and countersunk them for bedding. I added the original aluminum backing backing plate, underneath and bedded, using Butyl. I've used that trick several times since to add Solar Fans to the crowned drck, and raise deckfills, and deck hardware. It's not as complicated as it sounds. I made my own 1/4" thick backing plates, but G-10 is much more convenient. It has a smooth finished surface and is available in so many thicknesses. Chuck S > On 03/22/2024 8:23 PM EDT Dean McNeill via CnC-List > wrote: > > > I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my > C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. > Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill > old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood > backing plates. > > Any other hints and tips? > > Thanks, Dean > BarraWind > 1980 C 34 > Halifax, NS > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help > me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
I moved my original Lewmar 50 winches and added additional Lewmar 44 winches to my 1995 36XL/Kcb and added backing plates to all of them but did not glass the plates in place—this would have required destruction of a lot more of the interior headliner. I had used starboard previously but this would have required a fair bit of cutting since the starboard came in 2x2’ or 2x4’ sheets and I wanted a plate 1/2” thick. A little net searching led me to using red oak boards which could be had in the widths necessary (so I only had to cut them to length, not rip them at all.) Of course, even cross cutting such dense wood is not a piece of cake! Instead of glassing them in, I just painted them with a penetrating epoxy to keep them water resistant. (If properly installed, no water should get to them anyway). This type oak is near or at the top of measures of hardness, strength, density, etc. much like the live oak that was used for warships in the days of sail. After 15+ years of use and regular winch maintenance I have seen no evidence of wear or wood rot in these plates and no bending of the deck when pounding to weather in a breeze which was obvious prior to adding these plates. I believe that the deck would give way and the winch with the plate would break free of the boat before the plate would separate from the winch/deck! FWIW Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/Kcb Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS On Saturday, March 23, 2024, 4:42 AM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List wrote: I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Dean: The four winches I replaced were not "similar" in terms of make/size, but the job probably is. Mine was made more complicated because the winches were located near the mast where C had installed decorative teak decking pieces. I figured I'd just remove the teak pieces, fill the holes, reinstall the teak, etc., but nay nay. I don't know how the teak decking pieces were installed (a combination of machine bolts and something else), but it became clear that taking them off would be destructive. On the other hand, the problem with filling the old holes with epoxy while the teak pieces were in place is that epoxy would be able to escape between the deck surface and the teak deck pieces when epoxy was poured into the holes. The solution I came up with was wooden dowels. First I cleaned out the old holes by drilling them slightly larger. Then I cut dowel pieces a little longer than the hole depth (including the teak pieces), soaked them in West System, and tapped them in place from the deck (followed by teak plugs). After they set up, I trimmed the excess dowel from inside. Seems to have worked fine. If you don't have a complicated situation like mine, I suggest just cleaning up the old holes, taping them off underneath, and filling with West System. Use the Slow hardner. Good luck! Matt C 42 Custom -Original Message- From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 8:24 PM To: Stus-List Cc: Dean McNeill Subject: Stus-List Hints on swapping winches? I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Dave, that's excellent advice! Richard Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255 On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 09:42:56 AM EDT, Dave S via CnC-List wrote: Make your own ‘glass backing sheetshttp://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/making-fibreglass-parts.html?m=1 Dave - ex 33-2. Windstar On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:26 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote: Don’t use plywood. Aluminum or G10. Joel On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:24 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List wrote: I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing plates. Any other hints and tips? Thanks, Dean BarraWind 1980 C 34 Halifax, NS Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Hello Dean, Not sure you need to add an additional backing plate unless you are putting the winch somewhere that there wasn't one before. There is a thick solid plywood core where the primary winches are mounted on my 1981 C and they don't put a backing plate under it in the factory. I replaced the primary winches in 2020. I did use fender washers on the winch bolts to spread out the load. How you repair the previous holes might play a role in choosing to put a piece of G10 under and of course adding a backing plate isn't going to hurt anything. I did go a little beyond just filling the holes - I started filling the holes by 1 drilling the hole out a little bigger in order to create a clean surface to bond to. 2 Grinding a tapered area into the glass at the top to enable me to lay in a piece of glass fabric on top 3 with masking tape covering the bottom of the hole, put in a little unthickened epoxy to coat the outside of the hole followed by thickened epoxy using microfibers or similar. 4 follow with several layers of glass and epoxy at the top once it cures, sand flush and use filler if needed to fill any remaining low spots before painting. This might be overkill but gave me confidence that I was restoring the skin strength. Nathan S/V Wisper 1981 C 34 KCB Portland ME On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:26 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Don’t use plywood. Aluminum or G10. > > Joel > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:24 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on >> my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. >> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to >> fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or >> plywood backing plates. >> >> Any other hints and tips? >> >> Thanks, Dean >> BarraWind >> 1980 C 34 >> Halifax, NS >> >> >> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and >> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: >> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> Thanks for your help. >> Stu > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and > help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Make your own ‘glass backing sheets http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/making-fibreglass-parts.html?m=1 Dave - ex 33-2. Windstar On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:26 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Don’t use plywood. Aluminum or G10. > > Joel > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:24 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on >> my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. >> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to >> fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or >> plywood backing plates. >> >> Any other hints and tips? >> >> Thanks, Dean >> BarraWind >> 1980 C 34 >> Halifax, NS >> >> >> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and >> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: >> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> Thanks for your help. >> Stu > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and > help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu
Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
Don’t use plywood. Aluminum or G10. Joel On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:24 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on > my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. > Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to > fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or > plywood backing plates. > > Any other hints and tips? > > Thanks, Dean > BarraWind > 1980 C 34 > Halifax, NS > > > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and > help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > Thanks for your help. > Stu Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks for your help. Stu