Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

John, feel free to go climb on Talisman I have one between wheel and post. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> IIRC The Office had speakers back there instead of access plates.  If I 
> removed them I could reach 3 of the 4 the nuts on the underside of the 
> cockpit.  Minimized the time in the lazarette.
> 
> Joel
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 12:33 PM John Read via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> So I believe we have a plan.  After discussions with other C&C owners whose 
>> rudderpost arrangement is similar the culprit is the stainless plate bolted 
>> to the cockpit floor.  It has a bronze bushing through which the rudder post 
>> passes.  That plays a significant role in keeping the shaft in alignment.  
>> Over time it wears and enlarges, allowing the top of the shaft to move.  The 
>> fix is to support the rudder while on the hard, remove the donut nut, then 
>> remove the plate which may entail lots of boat yoga under the deck as the 
>> nuts are extremely close to the steering quadrant.  Take the plate to a 
>> machine shop and have them remove the old bearing and press in a new bronze 
>> / oil bushing with ID closely matching shaft OD.  Reverse the process to 
>> install.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It was suggested to cut an access hole and install an inspection plate in 
>> the vertical face behind the helm seat to improve access to the steering 
>> system.  Any words of wisdom from the group?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John Read
>> 
>> Legacy III
>> 
>> 1982 C&C 34
>> 
>> Noank, CT
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Joel Delamirande [mailto:joel.delamira...@gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 6:16 PM
>> To: Stus-List
>> Cc: John Read
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder shaft play
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> This should be interesting I have to do mine 
>> 
>> On a 30 mk1  if anyone have experience 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM John Read via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and aft.  
>> Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.  Not bad 
>> but should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak through 
>> the shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to be not 
>> true to the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is very simple 
>> – shaft rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into hull, shaft is 
>> open from top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow steering quadrant 
>> , shaft goes through hole in cockpit floor, through stainless bearing plate 
>> on top of cockpit floor, through delrin washer, then shaft is threaded and 
>> donut installed that rides on delrin washer.
>> 
>> My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would fill 
>> the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate / cockpit 
>> floor but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues or thoughts
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John Read
>> 
>> Legacy III
>> 
>> 1982 C&C 34
>> 
>> Noank, CT
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Joel Delamirande
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> www.jdroofing.ca
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

John,

IIRC The Office had speakers back there instead of access plates.  If I
removed them I could reach 3 of the 4 the nuts on the underside of the
cockpit.  Minimized the time in the lazarette.

Joel

On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 12:33 PM John Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> So I believe we have a plan.  After discussions with other C&C owners
> whose rudderpost arrangement is similar the culprit is the stainless plate
> bolted to the cockpit floor.  It has a bronze bushing through which the
> rudder post passes.  That plays a significant role in keeping the shaft in
> alignment.  Over time it wears and enlarges, allowing the top of the shaft
> to move.  The fix is to support the rudder while on the hard, remove the
> donut nut, then remove the plate which may entail lots of boat yoga under
> the deck as the nuts are extremely close to the steering quadrant.  Take
> the plate to a machine shop and have them remove the old bearing and press
> in a new bronze / oil bushing with ID closely matching shaft OD.  Reverse
> the process to install.
>
>
>
> It was suggested to cut an access hole and install an inspection plate in
> the vertical face behind the helm seat to improve access to the steering
> system.  Any words of wisdom from the group?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Read
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C&C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
>
> *From:* Joel Delamirande [mailto:joel.delamira...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 20, 2021 6:16 PM
> *To:* Stus-List
> *Cc:* John Read
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Rudder shaft play
>
>
>
> This should be interesting I have to do mine
>
> On a 30 mk1  if anyone have experience
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM John Read via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and
> aft.  Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.
> Not bad but should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak
> through the shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to
> be not true to the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is
> very simple – shaft rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into
> hull, shaft is open from top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow
> steering quadrant , shaft goes through hole in cockpit floor, through
> stainless bearing plate on top of cockpit floor, through delrin washer,
> then shaft is threaded and donut installed that rides on delrin washer.
>
> My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would
> fill the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate /
> cockpit floor but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues
> or thoughts
>
>
>
> John Read
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C&C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
>
> --
>
> Joel Delamirande
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>
> *www.jdroofing.ca *
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu



-- 
Joel
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[John Read via CnC-List]

So I believe we have a plan.  After discussions with other C&C owners whose 
rudderpost arrangement is similar the culprit is the stainless plate bolted to 
the cockpit floor.  It has a bronze bushing through which the rudder post 
passes.  That plays a significant role in keeping the shaft in alignment.  Over 
time it wears and enlarges, allowing the top of the shaft to move.  The fix is 
to support the rudder while on the hard, remove the donut nut, then remove the 
plate which may entail lots of boat yoga under the deck as the nuts are 
extremely close to the steering quadrant.  Take the plate to a machine shop and 
have them remove the old bearing and press in a new bronze / oil bushing with 
ID closely matching shaft OD.  Reverse the process to install.

 

It was suggested to cut an access hole and install an inspection plate in the 
vertical face behind the helm seat to improve access to the steering system.  
Any words of wisdom from the group?

 

 

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: Joel Delamirande [mailto:joel.delamira...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2021 6:16 PM
To: Stus-List
Cc: John Read
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder shaft play

 

This should be interesting I have to do mine 

On a 30 mk1  if anyone have experience 

 

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM John Read via CnC-List  
wrote:

After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and aft.  
Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.  Not bad but 
should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak through the 
shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to be not true to 
the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is very simple – shaft 
rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into hull, shaft is open from 
top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow steering quadrant , shaft goes 
through hole in cockpit floor, through stainless bearing plate on top of 
cockpit floor, through delrin washer, then shaft is threaded and donut 
installed that rides on delrin washer.

My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would fill 
the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate / cockpit floor 
but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues or thoughts

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

-- 

Joel Delamirande

Image removed by sender.

www.jdroofing.ca

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi John

On Persistence we replaced the rudder bushings last off season. Persistence is 
a 1987 Frers 33 but the process is likely very similar.  Our play was as much 
from wear on the rudder post as from the bushings and there was some pitting 
where the rudder post meets the rudder. These are two things to look out for 
and to address.

The entire project was documented here: 
http://www.hoytsailing.com/RudderBearing.htm

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS



From: John Read via CnC-List 
Sent: November 20, 2021 7:09 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: John Read 
Subject: Stus-List Rudder shaft play

After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and aft.  
Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.  Not bad but 
should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak through the 
shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to be not true to 
the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is very simple – shaft 
rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into hull, shaft is open from 
top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow steering quadrant , shaft goes 
through hole in cockpit floor, through stainless bearing plate on top of 
cockpit floor, through delrin washer, then shaft is threaded and donut 
installed that rides on delrin washer.
My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would fill 
the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate / cockpit floor 
but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues or thoughts

John Read
Legacy III
1982 C&C 34
Noank, CT

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[Sylvain Laplante via CnC-List]

 Personally I've always thought that I would use West System fix for that ( 
pages 56-57 )
https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/Fiberglass-Manual-2015.pdf
Sylvain Laplante,C&C27 MkIII

On Saturday, November 20, 2021, 06:09:44 PM EST, John Read via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 
After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and aft.  
Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.  Not bad but 
should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak through the 
shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to be not true to 
the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is very simple – shaft 
rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into hull, shaft is open from 
top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow steering quadrant , shaft goes 
through hole in cockpit floor, through stainless bearing plate on top of 
cockpit floor, through delrin washer, then shaft is threaded and donut 
installed that rides on delrin washer.

My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would fill 
the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate / cockpit floor 
but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues or thoughts

  

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

  
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Rudder shaft play

[Joel Delamirande via CnC-List]

This should be interesting I have to do mine
On a 30 mk1  if anyone have experience

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 6:09 PM John Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> After 40 years the rudder now has a bit of play laterally and fore and
> aft.  Bottom of rudder can be moved less than an inch in all directions.
> Not bad but should be addressed.  This also is most likely causing the leak
> through the shaft where it penetrates the deck fitting causing the donut to
> be not true to the stainless plate on the cockpit floor.  The design is
> very simple – shaft rides inside tube (with grease) that is glassed into
> hull, shaft is open from top of tube to bottom of cockpit floor to allow
> steering quadrant , shaft goes through hole in cockpit floor, through
> stainless bearing plate on top of cockpit floor, through delrin washer,
> then shaft is threaded and donut installed that rides on delrin washer.
>
> My initial thought is to machine a delrin bearing and washer that would
> fill the small gap between the shaft and hole in the bearing plate /
> cockpit floor but wanted to inquire if anyone else has had similar issues
> or thoughts
>
>
>
> John Read
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C&C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Joel Delamirande
*www.jdroofing.ca *
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu