Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Dave, that looks great!  Very clean.

As for the gelcoat touch up, rent one of the gelcoat color books from
FibreGlast here:

https://www.fibreglast.com/category/colorgelcoat

Order a quart of whichever color best matches.  Mix the gelcoat, activate
it then add colloidal silica to a mayonnaise consistency.  Since it's such
a small spot, apply with a toothbrush or a small piece of sponge.  Just dab
it on.  Practice on a hard surface first until you feel confident you can
match the texture.  You might have to try different kinds of sponges to
find one that matches the texture.

Important!  Practicing first will not only give you confidence in your
technique to match the texture, it will also determine if the sponge or
whatever similar applicator and container you choose is compatible with
gelcoat.  Gelcoat can dissolve several types of plastic.

--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 9:41 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>  I am not happy with the white epoxy I used to fill the 2 exposed old
> holes (you can see one just to the right of the winch).  What do others use
> to try to match the gelcoat and get a flat or textured surface?  Dave
>
>
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 Dave, that looks really good to me!  I'm sure Dennis or others can advise 
about the gelcoat, but I could live with it that way; Is you new winch an 
electric winch? What does the underside look like? are there any exposed bolts 
in the cabin? Thanks
 
Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596; 

Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 
 
-Original Message-
From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2023 10:41 am
Subject: Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

I finished my winch project yesterday and am quite happy with the result.  I 
used an aluminum plate as adapter as I had planned which I drilled and tapped 
for the Harken mounting holes.  Then I was able to reuse a number of the old 
through deck holes plus several new ones to mount the plate (bed-it butyl 
underneath).  I am not happy with the white epoxy I used to fill the 2 exposed 
old holes (you can see one just to the right of the winch).  What do others use 
to try to match the gelcoat and get a flat or textured surface?  Dave
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/9mkyprjmQSaSBLUrQY4lHw.CzlycRs1-zBDtkut0IoMkz


S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I finished my winch project yesterday and am quite happy with the result.  I 
used an aluminum plate as adapter as I had planned which I drilled and tapped 
for the Harken mounting holes.  Then I was able to reuse a number of the old 
through deck holes plus several new ones to mount the plate (bed-it butyl 
underneath).  I am not happy with the white epoxy I used to fill the 2 exposed 
old holes (you can see one just to the right of the winch).  What do others use 
to try to match the gelcoat and get a flat or textured surface?  Dave

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/9mkyprjmQSaSBLUrQY4lHw.CzlycRs1-zBDtkut0IoMkz
 




S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Thanks for all the feedback.  You guys always have great thoughts!
 
I thought of a third option but not sure if it helps.  I could possibly swap 
the other starboard cabin top winch for a self-tailer and reroute the main 
halyard.  I think I have more room there to mount it there, but will have to 
measure when I get a chance.

As to why do this- I agree that it is not a critical upgrade and don’t want to 
make it into a big project.  I can raise the main as others indicate.  There 
are two situations where I think it would make things easier.  First, there are 
times when I think I get the halyard tight enough, but later realize while 
sailing that it is too slack.  It would be much easier to keep it on the 
self-tailing winch and tweak than without having to tail at the same time when 
it requires a lot of force.  Second, in several single-handed races with high 
winds, I have sailed the upwind leg with reefed main and then had a long 
downwind leg where I would have liked to shake out the reef and then re-reef 
for the next upwind leg.  That would be much easier to do with the halyard 
already in the self-tailer.  

Charlie- Thanks for the info on number of threads to hold a bolt in place. I 
wondered if that information existed and now I know.  I am still thinking 
aluminum over starboard for strength but will investigate further.  I also 
agree with Ted’s point that this mounting would not require a second person to 
hold the nut if it need to be removed.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Mar 11, 2023, at 6:36 PM, Ted Drossos  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I did a similar winch installation on my previous C 29-2. I mounted Barient 
> ST24 winches in place of the existing Barient 18's. Instead of using and 
> aluminum adapter, the ones I fabricated were made from 1/4" thick stainless 
> steel. I was concerned that tapping the aluminum would not be strong enough. 
> The new winches were primary winches and they would see higher loads than a 
> halyard winch would. A nice advantage was being able to remove the winches 
> for servicing without having another person hold the bolt head as I loosened 
> the nut from under the deck. 
> 
> Ted Drossos
> C 110
> Lady in Red
> 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

When I decided I had to have self-tailers for my foresail, I decided
against changing brands, and just put in a search on eBay for variant
self-tailers. Eventually a perfect pair of stainless steel winches
self-tailers popped up, and I scarfed them up. I didn't even have to remove
the bases, just the drum.

Bill Coleman

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 17:40 Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> David - I sail windstar singlehanded a lot, and don’t have a self tailing
> halyard winch.  Just use a line clutch.  I raise it by hand, and finish
> with the winch, tailing it myself.   I have a bank of clutches on either
> side of the cabin top and these tail halyards, reefing lines, my topping
> lift, etc.
> Easy.
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I also hoist the main by hand on my 36 footer with a 43 foot hoist.  I setup 
the boat using autopilot so she's pointed into the wind, slow the throttle, 
take off the sailties, ease the mainsheet a little, and hoist the sail up by 
hand from the cockpit, pulling the halyard through a closed clutch on the 
cabintop.  It goes up best if you do it fast.  I have to be careful with the 
wind angle since I have checkstays that can catch the sail, and sometimes I 
ease them off for the hoist, but only use the winch to get the final tension.  
I'm not bragging, but I'm 68 and found this just works best.  I watch the head 
of the sail go up past the checkstays and sometimes, in light winds, don't even 
use the winch as I see a crease start behind the mast and need to ease the 
halyard little.  To make it easier, I mark the halyard with a sharpie as 
reference and lubricate the mast track and plastic slides with McLube a few 
times each season.  Also be sure that all the sheaves in the system are free 
turning and lubricated and the line is lead smoothly and fair.   

My boat has four self tailing winches and I miss them when I sail on other 
boats, so well worth the trouble to upgrade.   My cabintop winches are used for 
all halyards and also used for outhaul, cunningham, reefing lines, and the 
checkstays, so they are worth upgrading to self tailers. 

Chuck S





> On 03/12/2023 9:25 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ditto.  I hoist Touche's main by hand from the cockpit then finish with a 
> cabin top winch.  The halyard runs through a Lewmar rope clutch which is 
> closed during the hoist.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 4:41 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > David - I sail windstar singlehanded a lot, and don’t 
> have a self tailing halyard winch.  Just use a line clutch.  I raise it by 
> hand, and finish with the winch, tailing it myself.   I have a bank of 
> clutches on either side of the cabin top and these tail halyards, reefing 
> lines, my topping lift, etc.
> > Easy.
> > 
> > Dave 
> > Windstar 33-2
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Ditto.  I hoist Touche's main by hand from the cockpit then finish with a
cabin top winch.  The halyard runs through a Lewmar rope clutch which is
closed during the hoist.
--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 4:41 PM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> David - I sail windstar singlehanded a lot, and don’t have a self tailing
> halyard winch.  Just use a line clutch.  I raise it by hand, and finish
> with the winch, tailing it myself.   I have a bank of clutches on either
> side of the cabin top and these tail halyards, reefing lines, my topping
> lift, etc.
> Easy.
>
> Dave
> Windstar 33-2
>
>
>
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Ted Drossos via CnC-List]

Hi Dave,
I did a similar winch installation on my previous C 29-2. I mounted Barient 
ST24 winches in place of the existing Barient 18's. Instead of using and 
aluminum adapter, the ones I fabricated were made from 1/4" thick stainless 
steel. I was concerned that tapping the aluminum would not be strong enough. 
The new winches were primary winches and they would see higher loads than a 
halyard winch would. A nice advantage was being able to remove the winches for 
servicing without having another person hold the bolt head as I loosened the 
nut from under the deck. 
Ted DrossosC 110Lady in Red

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

Last things first, my rule of thumb (origin lost to memory) is to have enough 
threads to match the diameter of the bolt: thus a 1/4 x 20 bolt should have a 
minimum of 5 threads (20/4 = 5). Threads beyond that are overkill.
Next I would consider using a oscillating tool to cut away the inner liner in 
the shower so that you could reach all the bolts without drilling individual 
holes to match. You can easily cover the opening you create with a piece of 
teak or something that looks like it. Modern oscillating tools can easily cut 
through the liner.
Lastly, I would use a a starboard type plate vs. aluminium and forget about 
tapping an aluminium plate. Just use thru bolts and, if necessary, make the 
starboard thick enough so that the nuts used on the thru bolts can sit in 
recessed holes in the starboard.
FWIW
Charlie Nelson 


Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, March 11, 2023, 12:50 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I would love some feedback on a project since my initial plan went awry and 
hope others can help me from making any more mistakes.  I keep making small 
tweaks to make life easier for short-handed sailing.  Since I am usually alone, 
raising the main is a process.  I raise it most of the way by hand at the mast 
and have a clam cleat mounted there to hold it in place.  Then I feed the 
halyard through the blocks and then though the jammer on the coachroof and 
clamp it.  Then I use the winch to fully hoist and make adjustments.  The 
problem is that the only winch on the starboard side is a non-self tailing 
Barient 18.  Using that without someone to tail can be done, but is not easy 
and must be one handed.  
So I had to bright idea this winter to replace the winch with a self-tailing 
version to make adjustments easier once the sail is raised.  It seemed a 
relatively straightforward project at the time.  I have periodically had those, 
and I always assume the next one will be.  I found a used Harken winch in good 
condition at a reasonable price on Ebay and bought it and took it to the boat.  
I presumed I would have to redrill some holes to mount it, but did not realize 
how limited the space actually was. The new winch is not much larger, but 
enough to be a problem.  Because the winch is at the back of the coachroof, and 
behind the shower hatch, the space is very tight and I would not be able to fit 
all the screws of the new base, not to mention I would have to drill a new set 
of access points in the shower ceiling panel.
So two options:1.  Try to find a comparably sized Barient 21 or 22 ST that has 
a smaller base (none have the same hole pattern).  I think one would fit, but 
have not found any used ones yet so those appear hard to find.2.  Create an 
adapter plate.  My thought was to buy a round aluminum(?) stock plate the size 
of the new winch base.  Drill a set of countersunk holes matching the existing 
pattern and tap a set of holes for the new winch.  The plate would be held by 
the old through bolts.  The new by the tapped holes.  This would raise the 
winch somewhat depending on the thickness of the plate.  How thick to make it 
so the threads are sufficiently strong is a worry.  I don’t think the raised 
angle would be a problem, since genoa winches are much higher than the lead 
block and work fine.  
My temptation is to go with option 2.  Thoughts?  Thanks as always- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winch mounting project

[Dave S via CnC-List]

David - I sail windstar singlehanded a lot, and don’t have a self tailing halyard winch.  Just use a line clutch.  I raise it by hand, and finish with the winch, tailing it myself.   I have a bank of clutches on either side of the cabin top and these tail halyards, reefing lines, my topping lift, etc.Easy.Dave Windstar 33-2Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 11, 2023, at 12:51 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List  wrote:I would love some feedback on a project since my initial plan went awry and hope others can help me from making any more mistakes.  I keep making small tweaks to make life easier for short-handed sailing.  Since I am usually alone, raising the main is a process.  I raise it most of the way by hand at the mast and have a clam cleat mounted there to hold it in place.  Then I feed the halyard through the blocks and then though the jammer on the coachroof and clamp it.  Then I use the winch to fully hoist and make adjustments.  The problem is that the only winch on the starboard side is a non-self tailing Barient 18.  Using that without someone to tail can be done, but is not easy and must be one handed.  So I had to bright idea this winter to replace the winch with a self-tailing version to make adjustments easier once the sail is raised.  It seemed a relatively straightforward project at the time.  I have periodically had those, and I always assume the next one will be.  I found a used Harken winch in good condition at a reasonable price on Ebay and bought it and took it to the boat.  I presumed I would have to redrill some holes to mount it, but did not realize how limited the space actually was. The new winch is not much larger, but enough to be a problem.  Because the winch is at the back of the coachroof, and behind the shower hatch, the space is very tight and I would not be able to fit all the screws of the new base, not to mention I would have to drill a new set of access points in the shower ceiling panel.So two options:1.  Try to find a comparably sized Barient 21 or 22 ST that has a smaller base (none have the same hole pattern).  I think one would fit, but have not found any used ones yet so those appear hard to find.2.  Create an adapter plate.  My thought was to buy a round aluminum(?) stock plate the size of the new winch base.  Drill a set of countersunk holes matching the existing pattern and tap a set of holes for the new winch.  The plate would be held by the old through bolts.  The new by the tapped holes.  This would raise the winch somewhat depending on the thickness of the plate.  How thick to make it so the threads are sufficiently strong is a worry.  I don’t think the raised angle would be a problem, since genoa winches are much higher than the lead block and work fine.  My temptation is to go with option 2.  Thoughts?  Thanks as always- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu