Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Forgot to mention that we still laugh about the second event as the helmsman was on his knees behind the wheel, waist deep in water, with the white of his eyes showing around his sunglasses. This after a Off Soundings race, heading from Gardner's Bay to Block Island, some ten years ago. Don Kern Fireball C&C35 Mk2 Bristol, RI On 12/7/2018 10:36 PM, Donald Kern via CnC-List wrote: Been there, done that! In the two instances was after racing, running home (both times 5 hour of sailing), crew relaxing with beers, helmsman being not that experienced. Each time dug the pole into the ocean. First time bent the pole's closing pin at the mast and bent the mast fitting, both had to be replaced. Second time we did it, the pole slammed down on the life lines to the extend that it pulled the aft pulpit out of the deck fittings on the port side, almost lost the #1 genny and the crewman lying on it overboard and also put solid water into the cockpit. For a reason I do not understand the that helmsman never sailed with us again (his choice). Don Kern Fireball C&C35 Mk2 Bristol, RI ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Been there, done that! In the two instances was after racing, running home (both times 5 hour of sailing), crew relaxing with beers, helmsman being not that experienced. Each time dug the pole into the ocean. First time bent the pole's closing pin at the mast and bent the mast fitting, both had to be replaced. Second time we did it, the pole slammed down on the life lines to the extend that it pulled the aft pulpit out of the deck fittings on the port side, almost lost the #1 genny and the crewman lying on it overboard and also put solid water into the cockpit. For a reason I do not understand the that helmsman never sailed with us again (his choice). Don Kern Fireball C&C35 Mk2 Bristol, RI On 12/7/2018 4:32 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
In addition to what Don said, using the lazy guy instead of the sheet, pulls the clew down, and then you can even the clews by moving the pole down at the mast, easing the topping lift and tightening the foreguy. All of these adjustments move the center of effort down, further lessening the oscillations. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 1:33 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: > Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let > the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy > breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do > on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. > > Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the > forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and > trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen > the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most > trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is > eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a > death roll. Bad, bad scene. > > For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing > dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and > start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels > well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can > snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the > shrouds. It can bring the rig down. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into >> the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running >> dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the >> lazy guy to inhibit death roles. >> Don Kern >> Fireball C&C35 MK2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> >> >> ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=nQDRkg2ZKn4F9ncFM1K9PH0GIXGba2jbrRaUmVFo1I8&s=UIoUo6te2wCWNcRzFyGN1AbITlxtKfUyweQTtKVtWaI&e= > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
I’m getting nervous just sitting here reading about it. In my view, it’s the scariest part of racing, and C&Cs of our vintage – at least mine – get pushed around by quartering waves, making a round up more likely. From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:32 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles. Don Kern Fireball C&C35 MK2 Bristol, RI ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: > Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into > the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running > dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the > lazy guy to inhibit death roles. > Don Kern > Fireball C&C35 MK2 > Bristol, RI > > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
