Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-23 Thread Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
9.9 meters or 32 feet. As  someone said, the first of the 99’s was shipped out 
to the Annapolis show with a cobbled up part of an interior (from a 110?) and 
Tim Jackett came with it to show it off. They assembled a crack crew and showed 
if off quite well (and it got a lousy PHRF rating that nobody else could quite 
live up to). That boat was Rabbit. Not the best marketing practice if you want 
to sell boat to mortal people. 

 

Gary

30-1 #593

St. Michaels MD

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Joel Delamirande 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Delamirande 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Is 99 mean 99 feet boat

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:17 PM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

 

The 99 is a very nice boat

 

Mike Hoyt
Persistence

Halifax

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 

University of Connecticut 

91 N. Eagleville Rd 
 .

U-3125

Storrs, CT 06269-3125

 

 

 

On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Hi Don, 

I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing. 

 

Chuck   

On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Chuck, 
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.  
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19). 

Beat Army !! 
  
Don Kern 
Fireball C Mk2 
Bristol, RI 

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 

I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 

 

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.  

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com   

  

 

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md 

 

   

On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List   
 wrote: 

 

 

Welcome

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-22 Thread Rod Stright via CnC-List 
9.9 meters

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Joel Delamirande 
via CnC-List
Sent: July-22-20 7:01 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Delamirande 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Is 99 mean 99 feet boat

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:17 PM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

 

The 99 is a very nice boat

 

Mike Hoyt
Persistence

Halifax

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 

University of Connecticut 

91 N. Eagleville Rd 
 .

U-3125

Storrs, CT 06269-3125

 

 

 

On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Hi Don, 

I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing. 

 

Chuck   

On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Chuck, 
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.  
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19). 

Beat Army !! 
  
Don Kern 
Fireball C Mk2 
Bristol, RI 

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 

I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 

 

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.  

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com   

  

 

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md 

 

   

On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List   
 wrote: 

 

 

Welcome Jeff, 

 

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-22 Thread Joel Delamirande via CnC-List 
 Nice boats

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:19 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> C 99's were about 9.9 meters.  About 32-33 feet.  It's the black hull
> with the 3 white boot stripes.  Note how it collapses the red chute as it
> rolls over it.
>
> It tried to go under the boat shooting the video.  Not the best option.
> It would have struggled in the wind shadow of that boat.  Finally they
> decided to go over the top of the fleet.  Better but one of those
> boats could have run them up.  The best strategy would have been to set up
> a passing lane well to the windward of the fleet very early on the downwind
> leg depending on how long the leg was.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go
>
>   --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 5:02 PM Joel Delamirande via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Is 99 mean 99 feet boat
>>
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Joel Delamirande
*www.jdroofing.ca *
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-22 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List 
C 99's were about 9.9 meters.  About 32-33 feet.  It's the black hull
with the 3 white boot stripes.  Note how it collapses the red chute as it
rolls over it.

It tried to go under the boat shooting the video.  Not the best option.  It
would have struggled in the wind shadow of that boat.  Finally they decided
to go over the top of the fleet.  Better but one of those boats could have
run them up.  The best strategy would have been to set up a passing lane
well to the windward of the fleet very early on the downwind leg depending
on how long the leg was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

  --
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 5:02 PM Joel Delamirande via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Is 99 mean 99 feet boat
>
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-22 Thread Joel Delamirande via CnC-List 
Is 99 mean 99 feet boat

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:17 PM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular
> C 99 comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have
> since been modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length
> no longer than Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do
> not use the sprit/asym a lot.
>
>
>
> The 99 is a very nice boat
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
> Persistence
>
> Halifax
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *David
> Knecht via CnC-List
> *Sent:* July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
> *Cc:* David Knecht 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat
>
>
>
> Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an
> integral extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the
> 99, but the one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was
> the one I looked at modified?  Dave
>
>
>
> Dr. David Knecht
>
> Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
>
> University of Connecticut
>
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd
> 
> .
>
> U-3125
>
> Storrs, CT 06269-3125
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long
> rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He
> told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's
> faster upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so
> many different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
> On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck,
> Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat
> thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and
> the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted
> water or closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking
> downwind.
> Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the
> wood and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had
> no engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum
> sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year
> of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19).
>
> Beat Army !!
>
> Don Kern
> Fireball C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
>
> On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a
> steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and
> have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest
> model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my family.
> Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm while
> heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much
> less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a
> 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be
> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the
> wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed
> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the
> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out
> this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers
> in a race.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go
>
>
>
> I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths
> (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft
> berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger
> sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an
> improvement over it.
>
> Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
>
>
>
>
>
> On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Welcome Jeff,
>
>
>
> Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat
> compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is
> bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated
> to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean
> Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does
> not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool
> around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or go
> sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would
> prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind
> (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air).
> Dockage,

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Rod Stright via CnC-List 
Yes hull #1 was called Rabbit and was basically a stripped out boat that they 
added a long retractable sprit to and a 54” wheel.  The boat was sold and now 
has an interior.

 

Rod Stright



President

C 99 Class Association

Halifax

Nova Scotia

 

 

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via 
CnC-List
Sent: July-21-20 2:17 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

 

The 99 is a very nice boat

 

Mike Hoyt
Persistence

Halifax

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 

University of Connecticut 

91 N. Eagleville Rd.

U-3125

Storrs, CT 06269-3125

 

 

 

On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Hi Don, 

I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing. 

 

Chuck   

On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Chuck, 
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.  
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19). 

Beat Army !! 
  
Don Kern 
Fireball C Mk2 
Bristol, RI 

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 

I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 

 

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.  

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com   

  

 

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md 

 

   

On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List   
 wrote: 

 

 

Welcome Jeff, 

 

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

The 99 is a very nice boat

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of David Knecht via 
CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

Dr. David Knecht
Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
U-3125
Storrs, CT 06269-3125




On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck
On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19).

Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.
Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com


Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md


On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and 
jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands outside of 
Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever 
possible if there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that 
will move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely 
a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, 
and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).

Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List 
Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

Dr. David Knecht
Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
U-3125
Storrs, CT 06269-3125



> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Don,
> I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
> rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
> told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
> upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
> different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.
> 
> Chuck   
>> On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Chuck, 
>> Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat 
>> thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and 
>> the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted 
>> water or closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking 
>> downwind.  
>> Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
>> and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
>> engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum 
>> sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year 
>> of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19). 
>> 
>> Beat Army !! 
>>   
>> Don Kern 
>> Fireball C Mk2 
>> Bristol, RI 
>> 
>> On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 
>>> I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a 
>>> steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and 
>>> have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest 
>>> model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  
>>> Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm while 
>>> heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much 
>>> less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 
>>> 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be 
>>> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the 
>>> wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed 
>>> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the 
>>> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out 
>>> this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers 
>>> in a race.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
>>> (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft 
>>> berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger 
>>> sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an 
>>> improvement over it. 
>>> Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
>>> 
>>>
 On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List  
  wrote:
 
 
 Welcome Jeff,
 
 Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat 
 compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is 
 bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated 
 to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean 
 Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does 
 not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool 
 around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or 
 go sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would 
 prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind 
 (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air). 
  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If 
 offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better 
 choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and 
 a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
 those on this list who would differ). 
 
 Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going 
 to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely 
 at some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB 
 and it is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
True.  However that 99 is now going to have to alter more DDW and will slow 
down quite a bit as a result ….

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 1:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck
On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19).

Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.
Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com


Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md


On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and 
jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands outside of 
Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever 
possible if there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that 
will move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely 
a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, 
and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).

Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going to 
need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely at some 
point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a 
nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly 
a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to 
do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and has a 
newer style interior layout with a separate shower from the head I believe.  
While that would have been more money up front, but as I put 10+k into 
improvements plus lots of time each year it would not have made a big 
difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up around $20/year, about half 
of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and insurance, and

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck  

> On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Chuck,
> Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat 
> thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and 
> the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted 
> water or closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking 
> downwind. 
> Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the 
> wood and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had 
> no engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum 
> sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year 
> of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19).
> 
> Beat Army !!
>  
> Don Kern
> Fireball C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
> 
> On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If 
> you sail in a steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest 
> of us and have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, 
> lightest model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my 
> family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm 
> while heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes 
> much less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move 
> a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be 
> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the wind 
> reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed 
> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the 
> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out this 
> video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers in a 
> race.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go
> > 
> > I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee 
> > berths (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width 
> > aft berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger 
> > sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an 
> > improvement over it. 
> > Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
> >  
> > 
> > Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > > > On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via 
> > CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Welcome Jeff,
> > > 
> > > Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as 
> > > much boat compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. 
> > > Everything is bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get 
> > > more complicated to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that 
> > > a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about 
> > > the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend 
> > > to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times 
> > > in the process or go sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and 
> > > Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if 
> > > there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will 
> > > move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
> > > length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is 
> > > likely a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability 
> > > numbers as well, and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I 
> > > am sure there are those on this list who would differ).
> > > 
> > > Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price 
> > > range is going to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging 
> > > work, sails (likely at some point) and replacements over the coming 
> > > years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a nice size for us and is easy for my 
> > > wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly a spin although I am looking 
> > > to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to do it again I might 
> > > look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and has a newer style 
> > > interior layout with a separate shower from the head I believe.  While 
> > > that would have been more money up front, but as I put 10+k into 
> > > improvements plus lots of time each year it would not

Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Donald Kern via CnC-List 

Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller 
boat thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a 
A-chute and the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was 
in restricted water or closing the mark they should have been maxing 
their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the 
wood and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; 
had no engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine 
Museum sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed 
this year of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19).


Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a 
steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us 
and have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, 
lightest model C that still has just enough interior to 
accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind 
builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up 
over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 
20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which 
has standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They 
will all sail to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and 
then the longer waterline boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 
knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the lighter boats win 
and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out this video of a 
C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers in a race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee 
berths (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full 
width aft berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and 
the bigger sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 
34/36 was an improvement over it.

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md


On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:



Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat 
compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. 
Everything is bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also 
get more complicated to sail - does it have running backstays?  I 
think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have running backstays - 
not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for long 
passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking 
and jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands 
outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather 
than motor whenever possible if there is any wind (which is why it is 
nice to have a light C that will move in light air).  Dockage, 
hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore 
passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better choice 
and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and a 
C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).


Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is 
going to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, 
sails (likely at some point) and replacements over the coming 
years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a nice size for us and is easy for 
my wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly a spin although I am 
looking to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to do it 
again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and 
has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower from the 
head I believe.  While that would have been more money up front, but 
as I put 10+k into improvements plus lots of time each year it would 
not have made a big difference in the long run. My boat budget ends 
up around $20/year, about half of which is slip, hauling, winter 
storage and insurance, and the other half is maintenance and 
upgrades.  The first year we had the sails cleaned and repaired for 
$600, had the prop rebuilt for $500, new water heater, new head 
plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for the cushions (which I 
restuffed myself, etc.), etc. etc.. Last year we got new cruising 
sails for $6k and some new lines, new water pump, inflatable life 
jackets, etc.. This year it was quite a bit more (I haven't kept 
track) because we had the rod-rigging re-ended and needed a new 
furler and I repaired soft spots in the deck, repainted and refit the 
entire deck and included replacing winches with self tailers and 
added a custom bow roller I designed and sent out to a machine shop 
along with a new anchor and rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long 
rather than 40!  Can you do it for a