Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
I would not use 3/8” line for anchoring anything but a dinghy. Not that would snap outright, but it has no margin at all for chafe and wear. FYI right now I have 30 feet of 5/16” chain and 5/8” rode. I used to have 12 feet of ¼” chain and half inch rode. It survived a hurricane, so it was obviously strong enough. We had all 200 feet out in about 10 feet of water and the boat felt like she was on a giant bungee cord as the hurricane bands passed over. I got away from eye splices and shackles on the end of the rode and now just splice it straight to the chain – much easier to retrieve over the bow roller and cheaper too ☺ Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Watts via CnC-List Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 11:43 PM To: Chuck S; 1 CnC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain Considering I use 1/4 HT chain and 1/2 nylon for Shift, I have to agree. 3/8 nylon would be appropriate to give enough stretch with strength. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 12 May 2014 17:59, Chuck S via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Mark, Sounds like you are building a hurricane proof anchoring system? 5/8 nylon is hard to get onto cleats smaller than 10. Just sayin. Following Chapman's, I tried 5/8 docklines and found I could never get them over my 6 and even 8 cleats. I use 1/2 nylon three strand twisted for lunch hook and 1/2 stretchy double braid for tougher situations. 36' and 11000#. Gave more than 200' of 5/8 nylon docklines to my brother-in-law for his clamboats. If you are committed to your present system, you should check out Wichard for amazingly strong schackles in small sizes. Their SS is the strongest. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:52:33 PM Subject: Stus-List Shackles and chain Needed to replace the chain and shackles on my anchor - the existing shackles needed to be cut off with a cut-off blade (totally corroded). Bought 16' of 5/16 galv chain to add to connect the 27lb Kingston plow anchor and the ~250ft of 5/8 rode. But I was surprised to find that I couldn't fit the U of a 3/8 shackle (or even a 5/16) through the 5/16 chain. Everything I read said I should bump up the shackle one size from the chain to maintain working strength - but given I couldn't fit the ends of the U through the chain links I had to use 2 shackles on the anchor --- one with the pin through the anchor and a second shackle reversed with the pin through the chain link. Is that normal? I tried chain a 2 different locations with same results Mark -- There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.commailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Many years ago, a salty old retired USCG chief taught me the rule of thumb that you should have one pound of anchor and one foot of chain for every foot of boat length. I decided this current discussion would be a good time to double check that rule of thumb. I was pleased to find that Boat/US mAkes the same recommendation. Fortress anchor calls for less weight in their aluminum anchors, and a relatively short length of chain to help in setting the light anchor. But for steel anchors and a 30 knot wind, Fortress also says the pound/foot/foot system is recommended. Mark, I have to agree that 5/8 anchor rode is more than you need. I also use 1/4 HT chain and 1/2 3-strand for the anchor rode on my 38. I do have 65' of chain in each rode and oversized anchors, because once the anchor is down I want it to stay down. According to what I found this morning, the load on a typical sailboat at anchor in various wind strengths is: @15kt. @30kt. @42kt. @50kt 30'.175#.700#. 1400#. 2800# 35'. 225. 900. 1800. 3600 40'. 300. 1200. 2400.4800 Max working load of New England Ropes 3-strand is 1/3 of break strength (I prefer to use 25% in sizing the line myself). Break strength for various sizes are: 3/8.4400 # 1/2.7800 9/16. 9400 5/8. 12,200 So 1/2 rode should be adequate for a 30' boat in almost 50 kts, a 35' boat in 42+, or a 40' boat in well over 30 knots. I will almost always deploy a second anchor if the winds will be 30+. As far as what chain to use, the working load for various size chain is: Proof coil. HT (G4). BBB 1/4.1300. 2600 5/16. 1800. 3900.3800 3/8. 2650. 5400 So one could use big chain to increase catenary and help the anchor stay set, but 1/4HT is strong enough for up to a 40' boat in any reasonable conditions. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On May 12, 2014, at 23:42, Jim Watts via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Considering I use 1/4 HT chain and 1/2 nylon for Shift, I have to agree. 3/8 nylon would be appropriate to give enough stretch with strength. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 12 May 2014 17:59, Chuck S via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Mark, Sounds like you are building a hurricane proof anchoring system? 5/8 nylon is hard to get onto cleats smaller than 10. Just sayin. Following Chapman's, I tried 5/8 docklines and found I could never get them over my 6 and even 8 cleats. I use 1/2 nylon three strand twisted for lunch hook and 1/2 stretchy double braid for tougher situations. 36' and 11000#. Gave more than 200' of 5/8 nylon docklines to my brother-in-law for his clamboats. If you are committed to your present system, you should check out Wichard for amazingly strong schackles in small sizes. Their SS is the strongest. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:52:33 PM Subject: Stus-List Shackles and chain Needed to replace the chain and shackles on my anchor - the existing shackles needed to be cut off with a cut-off blade (totally corroded). Bought 16' of 5/16 galv chain to add to connect the 27lb Kingston plow anchor and the ~250ft of 5/8 rode. But I was surprised to find that I couldn't fit the U of a 3/8 shackle (or even a 5/16) through the 5/16 chain. Everything I read said I should bump up the shackle one size from the chain to maintain working strength - but given I couldn't fit the ends of the U through the chain links I had to use 2 shackles on the anchor --- one with the pin through the anchor and a second shackle reversed with the pin through the chain link. Is that normal? I tried chain a 2 different locations with same results Mark -- There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
On 5/13/2014 12:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote: On the topic of anchors and anchoring. Does anyone have any thoughts on kelets or anchor buddies? I ALWAYS use a kellet made from a small vinyl coated mushroom anchor, a couple of carabiners, 30 feet of small diameter line for retrieval, and one of these so it glides up and down the anchor line: http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4055115cp=3677347.11360113 Open the pulley and slip it over the rode. Slide it closed, and hang the anchor on it using the carabiner. Retrieval line is tied to the carabiner. Easy-peasey! In over 50 years, in conditions mild to wild, I have never dragged while using a kellet. I consider it essential, and it really is nothing to deploy and retrieve it. Bill Bina ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
They can be invaluable if you have a short length of chain and are anchoring in a current. Absent a kellet or enough chain, being anchored off Chestertown with a 2 knot reversing current always ends up with the rode around the keel. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:59 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain On the topic of anchors and anchoring. Does anyone have any thoughts on kelets or anchor buddies? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
I am far from being an expert on the topic, but the use of kellets always brings some discussions. Compare some of these: http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/kellets.php http://cruising.coastalboating.net/Seamanship/Anchoring/Kellets.html http://kb.rocna.com/kb/Kellets_and_buoys just my $0.02 Marek From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain They can be invaluable if you have a short length of chain and are anchoring in a current. Absent a kellet or enough chain, being anchored off Chestertown with a 2 knot reversing current always ends up with the rode around the keel. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:59 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain On the topic of anchors and anchoring. Does anyone have any thoughts on kelets or anchor buddies? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
An excellent 25 lb bronze one came with my boat and I all ways use it. It is very helpful if you anchor where the currents shift with the tide. I can put 70LBs of metal near or on the bottom. But only retrieve 40lbs at a time. Much easier on the back. Mike Padanaram, MA -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:12 PM To: Josh Muckley; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain On 5/13/2014 12:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote: On the topic of anchors and anchoring. Does anyone have any thoughts on kelets or anchor buddies? I ALWAYS use a kellet made from a small vinyl coated mushroom anchor, a couple of carabiners, 30 feet of small diameter line for retrieval, and one of these so it glides up and down the anchor line: http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4055115cp=3677347.11360113 Open the pulley and slip it over the rode. Slide it closed, and hang the anchor on it using the carabiner. Retrieval line is tied to the carabiner. Easy-peasey! In over 50 years, in conditions mild to wild, I have never dragged while using a kellet. I consider it essential, and it really is nothing to deploy and retrieve it. Bill Bina ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Shackles and chain
I think Joel is right in that what is unusual is that heavy anchor line and chain size for only a 27-lb anchor. I use that size anchor line and chain on my 44-lb anchor! Bob Bob Boyer (Sent from my iPad4) S/V Rainy Days 1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230 Annapolis, Maryland email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Uh-oh. Buncha sailors comparing the size of their anchors. This won't end well! ;-) Bill Bina On 5/13/2014 2:38 PM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote: I think Joel is right in that what is unusual is that heavy anchor line and chain size for only a 27-lb anchor. I use that size anchor line and chain on my 44-lb anchor! Bob Bob Boyer (Sent from my iPad4) S/V Rainy Days 1983 CC Landfall 38 - Hull #230 Annapolis, Maryland email: dainyr...@icloud.com blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Chuck, Thanks for the info. I'm just going with what was on the boat when I bought it --- with only a 27lb plow/CQR anchor (Kingston K27) I can't imagine I'll over stress the 5/8" line --- but given there was 200+' of line already in my bow anchor locker all I needed to to do was replace the rusted chain and add new shackles. Looking online (Mantus Anchors and the Kingston anchor site) - they recommend 5/16" chain and 1/2 or 5/8" line. I'll have to check how well the line clips into the foredeck cleats -- never tested it! Mark There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana On 12/05/2014 9:59 PM, Chuck S wrote: Mark, Sounds like you are building a hurricane proof anchoring system? 5/8" nylon is hard to get onto cleats smaller than 10". Just sayin. Following Chapman's, I tried 5/8" docklines and found I could never get them over my 6" and even 8" cleats. I use 1/2" nylon three strand twisted for lunch hook and 1/2" stretchy double braid for tougher situations. 36' and 11000#. Gave more than 200' of 5/8" nylon docklines to my brother-in-law for his clamboats. If you are committed to your present system, you should check out Wichard for amazingly strong schackles in small sizes. Their SS is the strongest. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:52:33 PM Subject: Stus-List Shackles and chain Needed to replace the chain and shackles on my anchor - the existing shackles needed to be cut off with a cut-off blade (totally corroded). Bought 16' of 5/16 galv chain to add to connect the 27lb Kingston plow anchor and the ~250ft of 5/8" rode. But I was surprised to find that I couldn't fit the U of a 3/8" shackle (or even a 5/16") through the 5/16 chain. Everything I read said I should bump up the shackle one size from the chain to maintain working strength - but given I couldn't fit the ends of the U through the chain links I had to use 2 shackles on the anchor --- one with the pin through the anchor and a second shackle reversed with the pin through the chain link. Is that normal? I tried chain a 2 different locations with same results Mark -- There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Our boat has a bulb with a stinger that extends past the trailing edge of the keel. I use a kellet, (Walmart 20# mushroom anchor) and it does a good job to keep the slack on the bottom and a small round fender to keep the line near the surface as far from the bow as possible, but found the best prevention, is an alarm clock to check the anchor during a tide change. If the wind is opposite the current, we anchor somewhere else. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ - Original Message - From: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 1:33:24 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain They can be invaluable if you have a short length of chain and are anchoring in a current. Absent a kellet or enough chain, being anchored off Chestertown with a 2 knot reversing current always ends up with the rode around the keel. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:59 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain On the topic of anchors and anchoring. Does anyone have any thoughts on kelets or anchor buddies? ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Mark, A bit of a chain primer might shed some light on this. Many boaters think chain is just chain. However, chain isn't just chain. Chain is designated by both size and type. Size can even be US or metric. There are several different types of chain. Chain can be designated BBB, proof coil, G3, G4, G34, S4, HT (high test), transport, AlloyGr80, AlloyGr100 and other types. Some of these types are just different names for the same chain. Each chain type has different dimensions, even for the same size. Different grades have different strengths. For instance, 5/16 G4 is stronger than 3/8 BBB. Also, windlass gypsies are made for certain size and type of chains. They don't like other chains. Commonly, anchor chain is usually BBB, G34 or G4. High end boats may use S4. So, you may have a chain different than what you think. Go here: http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/index_chain.htm On the left you will see a link called Reference then a second link called Chain Data. Selecting one of the chains may help you identify which chain you have and then help you select a shackle. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Needed to replace the chain and shackles on my anchor - the existing shackles needed to be cut off with a cut-off blade (totally corroded). Bought 16' of 5/16 galv chain to add to connect the 27lb Kingston plow anchor and the ~250ft of 5/8 rode. But I was surprised to find that I couldn't fit the U of a 3/8 shackle (or even a 5/16) through the 5/16 chain. Everything I read said I should bump up the shackle one size from the chain to maintain working strength - but given I couldn't fit the ends of the U through the chain links I had to use 2 shackles on the anchor --- one with the pin through the anchor and a second shackle reversed with the pin through the chain link. Is that normal? I tried chain a 2 different locations with same results Mark -- There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Shackles and chain
Considering I use 1/4 HT chain and 1/2 nylon for Shift, I have to agree. 3/8 nylon would be appropriate to give enough stretch with strength. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 12 May 2014 17:59, Chuck S via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Mark, Sounds like you are building a hurricane proof anchoring system? 5/8 nylon is hard to get onto cleats smaller than 10. Just sayin. Following Chapman's, I tried 5/8 docklines and found I could never get them over my 6 and even 8 cleats. I use 1/2 nylon three strand twisted for lunch hook and 1/2 stretchy double braid for tougher situations. 36' and 11000#. Gave more than 200' of 5/8 nylon docklines to my brother-in-law for his clamboats. If you are committed to your present system, you should check out Wichard for amazingly strong schackles in small sizes. Their SS is the strongest. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Atlantic City, NJ -- *From: *CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com *To: *CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent: *Monday, May 12, 2014 1:52:33 PM *Subject: *Stus-List Shackles and chain Needed to replace the chain and shackles on my anchor - the existing shackles needed to be cut off with a cut-off blade (totally corroded). Bought 16' of 5/16 galv chain to add to connect the 27lb Kingston plow anchor and the ~250ft of 5/8 rode. But I was surprised to find that I couldn't fit the U of a 3/8 shackle (or even a 5/16) through the 5/16 chain. Everything I read said I should bump up the shackle one size from the chain to maintain working strength - but given I couldn't fit the ends of the U through the chain links I had to use 2 shackles on the anchor --- one with the pin through the anchor and a second shackle reversed with the pin through the chain link. Is that normal? I tried chain a 2 different locations with same results Mark -- There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. - George Santayana ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
