Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue
I don't know if C&C used exactly the same stuffing box on every boat that they built with a 1" shaft, and I don't know how a boat owner could know for certain in all circumstances whether or not the box in their boat is original equipment even if they did. I do know that stuffing boxes made for the same diameter prop shaft and prop log tube do not all have the same inside diameter for the packing, and therefore require different packing sizes. This I discovered when I replaced the stuffing box on my C&C36 a couple of years ago. I also selected packing that was too small at first. The correct size is whatever the gap is between the prop shaft and the ID of the stuffing box. No other size is going to work properly. One other thing. If you do select flax packing, make sure that you do not over tighten it, and especially on first installation. Flax swells a little bit when wet, and that can take a few days. It is a mistake to tighten the packing nut on a boat that has been on the hard over winter just because it leaks a little in the spring. My C&C27 leaks when first splashed every year, but the leaking stops after a day or two. I adjusted the nut once in the past 17 years and I am not certain that it was really necessary even then. Steve Thomas On the hard in Ontario robert via CnC-List wrote: > "Any one else with an early 80's 34' and a 1 inch shaft want to tell > what size packing they use." Don, I have 1984 C&C 32 with a 1" prop shafttypical stuffing boxreplaced with 3/16"3 strandsfirst two strands went in but when I put in the 3rd strand, I couldn't not thread the nuttoo tightso I took out the 3rd strand and put the nut on and tighten it to compress the first two strands and then put the 3rd strand back in and I could then put the nuts together. My point is 3 strands of 3/16th on my 1" shaft is what worked for me. Any particular reason you used 1/4' packing and not 3/16th? Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - #277 Halifax, N.S. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue
This thread is timely. Replacing the stuffing is one of my winter / spring projects due to a surplus of water coming in last season; any tightening of the box caused too much heat. I have put off changing the stuffing for too long as it is near impossible to access. I replaced the stuffing box / hose ~ 10 years ago with a Buck Algonquin stuffing box, and put in 1/4" packing. When I ordered new packing a few months ago I bought the same 1/4". But this discussion of using 3/16" stuffing is interesting - maybe 3/16" would make the job a little easier... I just looked at the Deep Blue Yacht Supply website [where I bought the stuffing box] and they have 3 different Buck Algonquin stuffing boxes for 1" shafts [for various hose sizes] and ALL of them specify 1/4" packing... Does anyone "down size" stuffing from the manufacturers specs? I have been using GFO packing [it was very highly recommended on another sailing list] but reading Main Sail's pages on graphite impregnated stuffing is making me rethink this. Is anyone else using GFO packing, or is Teflon flax or other packing the way to go? Thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of robert via CnC-List Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 11:12 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: robert Subject: Stus-List Stuffing box issue > "Any one else with an early 80's 34' and a 1 inch shaft want to tell > what size packing they use." Don, I have 1984 C&C 32 with a 1" prop shafttypical stuffing boxreplaced with 3/16"3 strandsfirst two strands went in but when I put in the 3rd strand, I couldn't not thread the nuttoo tightso I took out the 3rd strand and put the nut on and tighten it to compress the first two strands and then put the 3rd strand back in and I could then put the nuts together. My point is 3 strands of 3/16th on my 1" shaft is what worked for me. Any particular reason you used 1/4' packing and not 3/16th? Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - #277 Halifax, N.S. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List Stuffing box issue
"Any one else with an early 80's 34' and a 1 inch shaft want to tell what size packing they use." Don, I have 1984 C&C 32 with a 1" prop shafttypical stuffing boxreplaced with 3/16"3 strandsfirst two strands went in but when I put in the 3rd strand, I couldn't not thread the nuttoo tightso I took out the 3rd strand and put the nut on and tighten it to compress the first two strands and then put the 3rd strand back in and I could then put the nuts together. My point is 3 strands of 3/16th on my 1" shaft is what worked for me. Any particular reason you used 1/4' packing and not 3/16th? Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - #277 Halifax, N.S. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
Hello John Thank-you for the reply. We started with three strands but had the problem of dripping in idle but not once running and warmed up. So we added another. The idea being we could loosen it off more but still stop the drip when stopped. At least that was our logic at the time. Didn't work. Do you have the original stuffing box? The 1/4 inch we used didn't have to be jammed in but it certainly didn't just slip in either. Sort of pushed it in one ring at a time by screwing on the nut. I know the rings could have shifted position in terms of alignment of the cuts but it seemed a little too tight for that. Also, it seems if all the cuts somehow got in a straight line it would leak more. How snug are your 3/16 rings? Do they slide in without to much effort? We definitely got all the old rings out as we had the nut off. We should have put the new rings in then but we waited till it was back on the shaft. This time we will have to do it in the water. Is that how you do it? I think the rings are too big and we over tightened them out of the gates. We are putting new ones in just debating size. You are the second person that said 3/16. Tomorrow we will measure the inside of nut and do the math. As best we can with the shaft running through the nut and water coming in. Any one else with an early 80's 34' and a 1 inch shaft want to tell what size packing they use. In terms of fuel we have had it all apart. We will now start that task over also. The Racor is only a year old as are many of the fittings. It has only ever been hand tightened. I have this worry that when we changed the filter we didn't fill it enough which caused the engine to stop. Then in our efforts to clean the tank and do everything else trying to figure it out we introduced a leak somewhere which is causing the same result. But maybe I'm just being negative. Thanks for helping.DonAndante1982 C&C 34Victoria Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: John and Maryann Read via CnC-List Date: 2018-12-03 5:34 PM (GMT-08:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: John and Maryann Read Subject: Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel Don RE: packing - you may have too much in the stuffing box. Our 34 has a 1 inch shaft. We use 3/16 Teflon packing (much better than flax). 3 strands cut at 45 degrees with joints staggered. Works just fine. Takes a few adjustments to get the correct drip - none when at rest a few drops per minute when running. So we have 9/16 total packing. If you have 4 strands of 1/4 inch that is a full one inch - too much IMHO. Also most important to ensure you have all the old packing in fact removed. We use a 1 1/2 inch screw and screw it into each strand and it easily is removed. You know you have it all out if the nut moves freely around the shaft at various angles. RE: air - have you checked the shut off valve on the inlet? Maybe needs to be removed and rebedded?? Same thing on the filter fittings. How about the inlet tube inside the tank where it mates to the fitting? Yes a low fuel level in the tank will allow air in if heeled to starboard as the inlet is on the port side. Just some ideas John and Maryann Legacy III 1982 C&C 34 Noank, CT ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
1+ on this from Dennis! Been there and done that when I replaced T-handle with pressure gauge. My diesel mechanic (having replaced/tightened all other fittings) suggested replacing the Racor filter top. Done and problem gone--when Racor says hand-tighten this top--PAY ATTENTION. Sometimes too tight is as bad as too loose! Plus once the top is warped, tightening more just warps it more--a new top is the only solution for this warping. Charlie Nelson cenel...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Dennis C. via CnC-List To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Sent: Mon, Dec 3, 2018 9:36 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel Racor 500 fuel filter tops can warp over time allowing air to leak in. If the T-handle is over-tightened, it can cause the top to become concave. Lay a flat across the underside of the top and see if the center is depressed (raised if the top is upside down). If so, you can't tighten the T-handle enough to seal the gasket. Also, the gasket can leak if old. Replace it often. Dennis C. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
Racor 500 fuel filter tops can warp over time allowing air to leak in. If the T-handle is over-tightened, it can cause the top to become concave. Lay a flat across the underside of the top and see if the center is depressed (raised if the top is upside down). If so, you can't tighten the T-handle enough to seal the gasket. Also, the gasket can leak if old. Replace it often. Dennis C. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
Don RE: packing - you may have too much in the stuffing box. Our 34 has a 1 inch shaft. We use 3/16 Teflon packing (much better than flax). 3 strands cut at 45 degrees with joints staggered. Works just fine. Takes a few adjustments to get the correct drip - none when at rest a few drops per minute when running. So we have 9/16 total packing. If you have 4 strands of 1/4 inch that is a full one inch - too much IMHO. Also most important to ensure you have all the old packing in fact removed. We use a 1 1/2 inch screw and screw it into each strand and it easily is removed. You know you have it all out if the nut moves freely around the shaft at various angles. RE: air - have you checked the shut off valve on the inlet? Maybe needs to be removed and rebedded?? Same thing on the filter fittings. How about the inlet tube inside the tank where it mates to the fitting? Yes a low fuel level in the tank will allow air in if heeled to starboard as the inlet is on the port side. Just some ideas John and Maryann Legacy III 1982 C&C 34 Noank, CT ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
That was me who suggested air in the racor. I had similar problems and continue to. My solution was to simply make venting the filter easier and more effective. If I vent every month or two then not enough air ever accumulates to cause problems. https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ?t=2m50s Air is getting in because of the negative pressure from the engine sucking fuel from the tank. An alternative solution which I have considered, is installing an electric fuel pump near the tank. This would pressurize the system, hopefully minimizing the amount of air getting sucked in. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sun, Dec 2, 2018, 9:40 PM DON JONSSON via CnC-List Stuffing Box Issues > > In the last week we took the boat out of the water, put on a new Campbell > Sailor prop., pulled the shaft and put in a new cutlass bearing, and > repacked the stuffing box. > > Considering it is a boat all went reasonably well. As an aside we are > very happy with the prop in the short test we did. More power and way > smoother than the two bladed prop we took off. Way smoother. > > However, this was my first attempt at doing the stuffing box and it is not > going well. Previously I always paid someone, perhaps a lesson there. I'm > hoping someone can give some insight. > > We used flax rings 1/4 inch which seem to fit well into the nut. They > were cut at 45 degrees and the cuts placed at different positions around > the shaft. Before being pushed in. We used 4 rings. > > At the moment it is dripping slightly when not running. When starting out > the box drips slowly when at idle whether in gear or not. As you power up > it continues to drip but as the box warms up the dripping slows down, > causing the box to get warmer and warmer. Ultimately the dripping stops > and things get hot. When you stop and go back to idle and let it cool down > it ultimately starts to drip again. You can loosen the nut so that when > not running you are getting a steady drip, but when you power up the > process repeats itself. > > So the question is what have I done wrong? > > Dirty Fuel Blues > > In a previous email I talked about fuel problems we were having that > seemed odd. Odd in that we thought it was dirty fuel but the primary > filter wasn't that dirty. And we ultimately got the engine running again > without changing the filter. Someone suggested that it could be air in the > top of the Racor 500 filter and then when running the engine while motor > sailing if you had enough heel you would get bubbles in the fuel line which > would cause the problem. And that scenario of motor sailing is what was > going on shortly before the engine died.Sure enough we had air in the > top of the filter, which we thought could have been from not properly > filling it when we recently (previous to the problem) changed the filter. > So we drained the tank, sucked out everything on the bottom so that it is > reasonably clean, changed the filters and filled to the top the Racor 500. > Everything runs fine now, except the top of Racor housing continues to get > about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of air in it. We have checked lines, tightened > everything that can be tightened, etc. All the fittings have been re-taped > and tightened, etc. > > That air has to be coming from somewhere, right? And we think that was > the cause of our engine quitting. > > Any ideas? > > As always, thanks. > > Don > Andante, C&C 34, Victoria > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > On Dec 2, 2018 9:40 PM, "DON JONSSON via CnC-List" wrote: Stuffing Box Issues In the last week we took the boat out of the water, put on a new Campbell Sailor prop., pulled the shaft and put in a new cutlass bearing, and repacked the stuffing box. Considering it is a boat all went reasonably well. As an aside we are very happy with the prop in the short test we did. More power and way smoother than the two bladed prop we took off. Way smoother. However, this was my first attempt at doing the stuffing box and it is not going well. Previously I always paid someone, perhaps a lesson there. I'm hoping someone can give some insight. We used flax rings 1/4 inch which seem to fit well into the nut. They were cut at 45 degrees and the cuts placed at different positions around the shaft. Before being pushed in. We used 4 rings. At the moment it is dripping slightly when not running. When starting out the box drips slowly when at idle whether in gear or not. As you power up it continues to drip but as the box warms up the dripping slows down, causing the box to get warmer and warmer. Ultimately the dripping stops and things get hot. When you stop and go back to idle and let it cool down it ultimately starts
Stus-List Stuffing box issue and update on dirty fuel
Don: Can't say exactly what your problem might beyou said you used 1/4 inch flaxon what size prop shaft? I have a 1" shaft and use 3/16" and it works fine. This might be helpful: https://marinehowto.com/re-packing-a-traditional-stuffing-box/ Can't suggest anything with the engine issuenot my expertisebut if air is getting into your fuel system, it will stall your engine. I had problem that involved an 'air leak'not the same as yours but significant.launched, started the engine, no water exhaust from the transom thruhullstop engine, check all hose connections, thru hulls which don't ever get closed over winter are all openstart engine, no water exhaust.now whatfinally put light on the raw water strainer with glass bowl which still has antifreezetighten the 2 wing nuts on the top of the strainer which was sucking air and not sea water and we are good to go. It can be that simple or worse. Rob Abbott AZURAbut C&C 32 - #277 Halifax, N.S. On 2018-12-02 10:39 p.m., DON JONSSON via CnC-List wrote: Stuffing Box Issues In the last week we took the boat out of the water, put on a new Campbell Sailor prop., pulled the shaft and put in a new cutlass bearing, and repacked the stuffing box. Considering it is a boat all went reasonably well. As an aside we are very happy with the prop in the short test we did. More power and way smoother than the two bladed prop we took off. Way smoother. However, this was my first attempt at doing the stuffing box and it is not going well. Previously I always paid someone, perhaps a lesson there. I'm hoping someone can give some insight. We used flax rings 1/4 inch which seem to fit well into the nut. They were cut at 45 degrees and the cuts placed at different positions around the shaft. Before being pushed in. We used 4 rings. At the moment it is dripping slightly when not running. When starting out the box drips slowly when at idle whether in gear or not. As you power up it continues to drip but as the box warms up the dripping slows down, causing the box to get warmer and warmer. Ultimately the dripping stops and things get hot. When you stop and go back to idle and let it cool down it ultimately starts to drip again. You can loosen the nut so that when not running you are getting a steady drip, but when you power up the process repeats itself. So the question is what have I done wrong? Dirty Fuel Blues In a previous email I talked about fuel problems we were having that seemed odd. Odd in that we thought it was dirty fuel but the primary filter wasn't that dirty. And we ultimately got the engine running again without changing the filter. Someone suggested that it could be air in the top of the Racor 500 filter and then when running the engine while motor sailing if you had enough heel you would get bubbles in the fuel line which would cause the problem. And that scenario of motor sailing is what was going on shortly before the engine died.Sure enough we had air in the top of the filter, which we thought could have been from not properly filling it when we recently (previous to the problem) changed the filter. So we drained the tank, sucked out everything on the bottom so that it is reasonably clean, changed the filters and filled to the top the Racor 500. Everything runs fine now, except the top of Racor housing continues to get about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of air in it. We have checked lines, tightened everything that can be tightened, etc. All the fittings have been re-taped and tightened, etc. That air has to be coming from somewhere, right? And we think that was the cause of our engine quitting. Any ideas? As always, thanks. Don Andante, C&C 34, Victoria Sent from my iPad ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
