Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

With tracks directly behind the shrouds, my 30-1 ‘s 155% genoa hits the 
spreader and shroud at about the same time. I think that seven degrees on a 
rather wide boat is pushing it, it seems the boat is not able to respond.

 

Just my experience.

 

Gary

#593

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steven 
Tattrie via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 2:04 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Steven Tattrie <steven.tatt...@gmail.com>
Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

 

Hi All, thank for everyone that provided feedback on genoa track on a C mk1.

 

Micheal Brown pointed out an interesting sailing magazine article  
<http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/> 
http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

 

My take away here is I should be sheeting as close as 7 degrees up to 10 
degrees depending on wind. I visited my boat this weekend and based on my 
trigonometry math skills I would have not issue sheeting too close . It would 
be difficult to meet the seven degrees in light wind. With that in mind my 
concern is shroud location.

 

Does any one with tracks have interference with the shrouds? I am thinking, 
when the wind pick up you want to flatten the foot, visually looks like the 
shroud would restrict sail shape. any comments?

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steven Tattrie via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Does any one with tracks have interference with the shrouds? I am
> thinking, when the wind pick up you want to flatten the foot, visually
> looks like the shroud would restrict sail shape. any comments?
>

Steve,

My 35-1 has a jib track near the shrouds.  The sheet for my 95% blade trims
between the forward lower and upper shrouds.  Pics can be seen here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsNll4b3ZwM1B4a28

I use this track until about 22-24 knots.  Above that the sheet moves to
the toe rail to increase the sheeting angle to reduce heel.

Larger sails trim to a genoa track aft of the shrouds.  Can be seen in the
same Drive folder.

One factor in locating genoa and jib tracks is interference from the
interior cabinetry.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Typically your spreaders and your side stays are going to be the limiting
factors for any sail over a 100.  If you have a 90 or a 100 then you would
be able to sheet them in closer assuming that you had a sheet lead that was
inside.  In the article's example the blade jib was sheeted to a curved
track mounted forward of the mast.  Oddly, this sheet position wouldn't
lead far enough aft and as such doesn't provide as much tension on the foor
as it does on the leach.  This can be solved with a jib boom and out haul
which travels in front of the mast and is controlled port and stbd by cross
sheeting the jib sheets forward of the mast.  You'd also need a boom
downhaul.  So instead of all that we could simply have a sheet lead which
is inboard and aft of the spreaders... Or an even smaller jib, sau 70% or
80%.  Then maybe you would be able to have an inboard sheet lead which was
also far enough aft to provide the necessary tension on the leach and the
foot.  Now you just killed the majority of your thrust anf speed attempting
to sail tighter to the wind.  We didn't even address what all of this is
doing to the slot (headsail wind accelerating over the majnsail).  Remember
that you are should always be seeking the highest VMG or Course Speed
(CS).  Sometimes this means footing off slightly and letting the sails
breath a little.

Long story short, IMO the article seems to be envisioning some mystical
boat which defies modern sailing technology.  Our masts are set far enough
back in the boat that the headsail is the primary driver.  Use the largest
one appropriate for the wind conditions.  A 145 or 135 up to about 10 or 12
kts, 110 up to about 15 to 18 kts and a 90 for greater than 18 kts.  A
storm sail for anything higher than 25 kts.  Use a mainsail reefed such
that it balances the helm based on the selected headsail.

As you noticed, it is impossible to sheet in any further than having the
foot on the stays and the leach on the spreader.  45° to true wind and ~30°
to apparent wind.  Assuming no current and little slip this would be seen
as 90° tack angles.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 2:04 PM Steven Tattrie via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi All, thank for everyone that provided feedback on genoa track on a
> C mk1.
>
> Micheal Brown pointed out an interesting sailing magazine article
> http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/
>
> My take away here is I should be sheeting as close as 7 degrees up to 10
> degrees depending on wind. I visited my boat this weekend and based on my
> trigonometry math skills I would have not issue sheeting too close . It
> would be difficult to meet the seven degrees in light wind. With that in
> mind my concern is shroud location.
>
> Does any one with tracks have interference with the shrouds? I am
> thinking, when the wind pick up you want to flatten the foot, visually
> looks like the shroud would restrict sail shape. any comments?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I don’t have a 30-1, so I doubt this helps; but on my 42 the shrouds are a 
problem when sheeting tight while going upwind and using the genny car track.

From: Steven Tattrie via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 2:03 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Steven Tattrie 
Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

Hi All, thank for everyone that provided feedback on genoa track on a C 
mk1. 

Micheal Brown pointed out an interesting sailing magazine article 
http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

My take away here is I should be sheeting as close as 7 degrees up to 10 
degrees depending on wind. I visited my boat this weekend and based on my 
trigonometry math skills I would have not issue sheeting too close . It would 
be difficult to meet the seven degrees in light wind. With that in mind my 
concern is shroud location.

Does any one with tracks have interference with the shrouds? I am thinking, 
when the wind pick up you want to flatten the foot, visually looks like the 
shroud would restrict sail shape. any comments?

Steve







___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 (Steven Tattrie)

[Steven Tattrie via CnC-List]

Hi All, thank for everyone that provided feedback on genoa track on a C
mk1.

Micheal Brown pointed out an interesting sailing magazine article
http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

My take away here is I should be sheeting as close as 7 degrees up to 10
degrees depending on wind. I visited my boat this weekend and based on my
trigonometry math skills I would have not issue sheeting too close . It
would be difficult to meet the seven degrees in light wind. With that in
mind my concern is shroud location.

Does any one with tracks have interference with the shrouds? I am thinking,
when the wind pick up you want to flatten the foot, visually looks like the
shroud would restrict sail shape. any comments?

Steve
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I installed separate tracks. A longer one back to handle sails in the 140 - 155 
range
and a short track between the shrouds and cabin for < 100.

The height of the clew controls how far back the genoa car is positioned. I 
doubt the
110 will sheet inside of the shrouds. If the clew is higher than the top life 
line it will
sheet a few feet back of the shrouds and you can design with one longer track
inboard towards the cabin. If the clew is low than a more outboard track closer
to the shrouds is needed.

http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/

That is a good starting point. You can measure and leave a tape strip on the 
luff
about 40% up, then play with the sheets until you see where they land.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1





From: Steven Tattrie  

Hi everyone, 
 
I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C MK1 1979. I 
have a 110 and 150 head sail. 
 
Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks 
on a 30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different 
sails? and where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be 
sheeted inside the shrouds? when they are best used? 
 
I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a 
dozen different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision 
on where to locate. 
 
you comments will be appreciated 
 
Steve 
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I have long tracks which start about two feet aft of the shrouds and are even 
with them across-wise. They are about eight feet long. The 140+/- sheets near 
the forward end of the gate and the 155 sheets mid-to aft in the gate. The clew 
of the ‘working jib’ which may be original to the 1980 boat (seldom used) goes 
around the shrouds, and touches the shroud with the clew cringle. It sheets 
nearly where the 140 does because of its high clew (about 4 feet off deck) and 
it is rather full for a little sail. I sheet the genoas to the rail when 
reaching, as having them pinched into the track just chokes them off.

 

A different cut on a small jib would require a car and short track which could 
be inside the shrouds.

 

Garhauer adjustable cars work just fine for this.

 

Gary Nylander

30-1 #593

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 1:52 PM
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

 

I've only got short (~2') tracks between the rails and the coamings, with their 
forward ends at the aft lifeline gate stanchion / forward primary winch.  I use 
them with the cars all the way forward for my #2 genoa (150%), and with the 
cars all the way aft for my #1 genoa (165%).  I use snatch blocks on the rails 
for smaller headsails.  With my #3 genoa (130%) I position the blocks just 
forward of the forward lifeline gate brace.  To use my working jib I'd position 
the blocks farther forward and would probably wish they were more inboard, but 
to be honest I hardly ever sail with a headsail smaller than the #3 genoa.  
This system could probably use some fine tuning, but it was good enough for me 
last year, and I won races when the wind was up.

 

Cheers,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO

 

  _  

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com <mailto:rbfrer...@yahoo.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 11:27:53 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

 

I have the shoal draft model and have found that I'm better off not trying to 
point too high.  As a result, the genoa track between the rail and the coming 
going up a couple feet forward of the bulkhead works well.  However, sheeting 
to the toe rail works well also.

For the smaller jib, I always use the rail.  Pointing too high just seems a bad 
tradeoff with the shoal draft keel.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C 30-1

STL

 

 

 

  _  

From: Steven Tattrie via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Cc: Steven Tattrie <steven.tatt...@gmail.com <mailto:steven.tatt...@gmail.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 9:35 AM
Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979



 

Hi everyone,

 

I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C MK1 1979. I have a 
110 and 150 head sail. 

 

Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks on a 
30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different sails? and 
where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be sheeted inside the 
shrouds? when they are best used?

 

I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a dozen 
different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision on where to 
locate.

 

you comments will be appreciated

 

Steve

 


___

 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

 

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

[RANDY via CnC-List]

I've only got short (~2') tracks between the rails and the coamings, with their 
forward ends at the aft lifeline gate stanchion / forward primary winch. I use 
them with the cars all the way forward for my #2 genoa (150%), and with the 
cars all the way aft for my #1 genoa (165%). I use snatch blocks on the rails 
for smaller headsails. With my #3 genoa (130%) I position the blocks just 
forward of the forward lifeline gate brace. To use my working jib I'd position 
the blocks farther forward and would probably wish they were more inboard, but 
to be honest I hardly ever sail with a headsail smaller than the #3 genoa. This 
system could probably use some fine tuning, but it was good enough for me last 
year, and I won races when the wind was up. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 11:27:53 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 

I have the shoal draft model and have found that I'm better off not trying to 
point too high. As a result, the genoa track between the rail and the coming 
going up a couple feet forward of the bulkhead works well. However, sheeting to 
the toe rail works well also. 
For the smaller jib, I always use the rail. Pointing too high just seems a bad 
tradeoff with the shoal draft keel. 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C 30-1 
STL 




From: Steven Tattrie via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Steven Tattrie <steven.tatt...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 9:35 AM 
Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979 

Hi everyone, 

I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C MK1 1979. I have a 
110 and 150 head sail. 

Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks on a 
30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different sails? and 
where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be sheeted inside the 
shrouds? when they are best used? 

I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a dozen 
different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision on where to 
locate. 

you comments will be appreciated 

Steve 


___ 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

All Contributions are greatly appreciated! 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

I have the shoal draft model and have found that I'm better off not trying to 
point too high.  As a result, the genoa track between the rail and the coming 
going up a couple feet forward of the bulkhead works well.  However, sheeting 
to the toe rail works well also.For the smaller jib, I always use the rail.  
Pointing too high just seems a bad tradeoff with the shoal draft keel.RonWild 
CheriC 30-1STL


  From: Steven Tattrie via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Steven Tattrie <steven.tatt...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 9:35 AM
 Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979
   
Hi everyone,
I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C MK1 1979. I have a 
110 and 150 head sail. 
Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks on a 
30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different sails? and 
where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be sheeted inside the 
shrouds? when they are best used?
I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a dozen 
different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision on where to 
locate.
you comments will be appreciated
Steve
   ___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C 30 MK1 1979

[Steven Tattrie via CnC-List]

Hi everyone,

I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C MK1 1979. I
have a 110 and 150 head sail.

Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks
on a 30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different
sails? and where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be
sheeted inside the shrouds? when they are best used?

I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a
dozen different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision
on where to locate.

you comments will be appreciated

Steve
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!