[cobirds] Dinosaur Ridge - Denver Field Ornithologists (04 Mar 2022) 5 Raptors

[reports]

Dinosaur Ridge - Denver Field Ornithologists
Colorado, USA
Daily Raptor Counts: Mar 04, 2022
---

SpeciesDay's CountMonth Total   Season Total
-- --- -- --
Black Vulture0  0  0
Turkey Vulture   0  0  0
Osprey   0  0  0
Bald Eagle   0  0  0
Northern Harrier 0  2  2
Sharp-shinned Hawk   1  1  1
Cooper's Hawk0  0  0
Northern Goshawk 0  2  2
Red-shouldered Hawk  0  0  0
Broad-winged Hawk0  0  0
Red-tailed Hawk  0 18 18
Rough-legged Hawk0  0  0
Swainson's Hawk  0  0  0
Ferruginous Hawk 0  0  0
Golden Eagle 4  7  7
American Kestrel 0  1  1
Merlin   0  1  1
Peregrine Falcon 0  0  0
Prairie Falcon   0  1  1
Mississippi Kite 0  0  0
Unknown Accipiter0  0  0
Unknown Buteo0  3  3
Unknown Falcon   0  0  0
Unknown Eagle0  0  0
Unknown Raptor   0  0  0

Total:   5 36 36
--

Observation start time: 09:30:00 
Observation end   time: 17:00:00 
Total observation time: 7.5 hours

Official Counter:Emma Riley

Observers:Dale Campau , Dave Hill, Sammy Korengut 

Visitors:
We had a great group of observers on the ridge today including David Hill,
Sammy Korengut, Dale Campau, and Doug Anderson in the morning. Total
visitors today was 29, with about half of those people inquiring about the
hawkwatch. The local RT were showing off for visitors, flying directly
overhead at a few points in the day. It was great to be able to show them
some birds. 


Weather:
The day started off with full cloud cover and a moderate wind of 10 km/h
and a temp of 14 C. Rain could be seen to the west, but no precipitation
ever reached us. Early afternoon the clouds almost totally cleared up and
revealed the strong Colorado sun. The day ended like it started, with thick
cloud cover coming in and temperatures rapidly dropping. We could again see
precipitation just to the west of us, but 1700 came before it reached us.
Winter weather is expected to continue rolling in tonight through Monday. 

Raptor Observations:
The local birds today stole the show, giving us incredible looks at some
courtship behavior between local RT. The same "leg drop" bird that has been
seen the last few days was incredibly active, keeping us entertained. We
also found another pair of local GE, bringing our count up to four. All
four birds could be seen today. GE was also the star migrant of the day,
with four GE taking a similar WNW migratory path at incredible altitude. We
also counted our first SS today.

Non-raptor Observations:
Lots of corvid activity today as well as some nice Mountain Bluebird
movement along the ridge. Two Black-billed Magpies were seen chasing off
the migrating SS. Other visitors include the regulars- Townsend's
Solitaire, Woodhouse's Scrub Jay, and Bushtits. One American Robin was
perched on the nearby snag at the end of the day. 

Predictions:
A winter storm is rolling in this weekend, with Sunday being the worst. We
are hopeful we'll get a full day's count tomorrow and we are looking
forward to seeing how the birds behave through this storm. 

Report submitted by DAVID HILL ()
Dinosaur Ridge - Denver Field Ornithologists information may be found at:
http://www.dfobirds.org


More site information at hawkcount.org:  
https://hawkcount.org/siteinfo.php?rsite=123

Site Description:
Dinosaur Ridge is the only regularly staffed hawkwatch in Colorado and is
the best place in the world to see migrating Ferruginous Hawks. Dinosaur
Ridge may be the best place in the country to see the rare dark morph of
the Broad-winged Hawk (a few are seen each spring). Hawkwatchers who linger
long enough may see resident Golden Eagles, Red-tailed Hawks and Prairie
Falcons, in addition to migrating Swainson's, Cooper's and Sharp-shinned
Hawks, American Kestrels and Turkey Vultures. Peregrine Falcons and
Ferruginous Hawks are uncommon; Northern 

[cobirds] Re: Everyone loves owls!

[Carl Bendorf]

Peter,

These are good thoughts.  I don't wish to belabor anything but I was in the 
vicinity when the homeowner mentioned in Dave Leatherman's original post 
was talking to the group.  I've been at this particular road many times 
(over 200 eBird checklists submitted) and am pretty familiar with the 
typical rhythms and ebb and flow of visitors. Yes, there were a lot of 
people and a lot of cars but I would guess up to a third of the people and 
the cars were non-birders, non-photographers who were out for a stroll or 
walking their dogs (it was a really nice day!)  To your point, most 
passers-by were very interested, asking questions, etc.  I certainly 
wouldn't characterize it as a "mob scene"

 My first sighting of the pygmy-owl this winter was on October 4 and one 
(and recently two) birds have been present off and on all winter and the 
sightings have been anywhere in a roughly one mile stretch along the road.  
Over the last week or so, the birds seem to have decided to hang out right 
in front of some poor guy's house.

Since October, I've encountered one or more pygmy-owls on 9 of my 21 visits 
to this location. The birds have never seemed very bothered by people and, 
in fact,  regularly were seen very close to (even right over) the road. 
I've never seen any photographers at this location who were off the road or 
"crawling up under branches."   In general, birders, photographers, and 
passers-by have been pretty well behaved.

Carl Bendorf
Longmont
On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 11:13:28 AM UTC-7 Peter Burke wrote:

> COBirders,
> The pygmy-owl scene in Lyons is one of those times when "our" hobby spills 
> over into the public consciousness. We see this when a rare bird shows up 
> in a residential area, or when a group of non-birders happen across a group 
> of birders. In these moments we can focus on what we have in common or what 
> makes us different. 
>
> Somewhere in all this conflict is an opportunity for us birders to share 
> our knowledge and appreciation of birds with these other folks who are 
> clearly interested, but maybe less familiar with some of the finer points 
> of birding etiquette. Sharing a scope or binoculars is a great way to 
> strike up conversation.
>
> The homeowners on Old Saint Vrain Rd. have been putting up with us birders 
> for decades. Many of them have politely engaged with us and forged an 
> alliance of sorts. Perhaps we can do the same with the photographers drawn 
> to this location with the dream of getting good photos of an otherwise hard 
> to see bird.
>
> On a personal note, I too am a birder+photographer. It takes a while to 
> learn when it is ok to approach birds and when it's not, and part of that 
> process is feedback from other photographers, birders, homeowners, etc. If 
> we provide that feedback constructively, then we're helping. 
>
> Good birding everyone,
>
> Peter Burke
> CFO Board of Directors
>

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Re: [cobirds] A situation (Boulder)

[Tyler Stuart]

Diana,

Good thought to include CPW's recommendations in this conversation. I will
add that those recommendations were updated in 2020, and the new distance
for Burrowing Owls is 200 meters, rather than the 50 meters shown on the
card you shared.

Not speaking to this situation specifically, but there may (perhaps often)
be times when it's best for a roosting owl to be appreciated by the
"discoverer" and then let be. Just another thought to add to the mix here.

Birdifully,

Tyler Stuart
Colorado Springs

On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 10:07 AM Diana Beatty  wrote:

> I would like to ask about the CPWs distance recommendations for
> viewing/photographing roosting raptors.  I find birders/photographers are
> usually far closer than they recommend.  [image: cpw distance.jpg]
>
> Diana Beatty
> El Paso County
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 9:15 AM John Salisbury 
> wrote:
>
>> Well said Eric!
>>
>> The objection that has been raised is to the large groups carvaning to
>> the area and converging on a sighting location.  My experience on Old St.
>> Vrain is very similar to Eric's. I have encountered a "large group" only a
>> couple of times and then only for a few minutes.  Others may have
>> experienced more of a crowd it sounds like.  I can understand the local
>> resident's concern that there are a lot more people than there may have
>> been in the past using the road these days.  Runners, dog walkers,
>> cyclists, birders.  Yes things change but it is a public road.  We are all
>> within our rights to be there as long as we are not blocking the road or
>> breaking the law.  I agree everyone needs to be respectful to the people
>> who live there and to the wildlife we are all trying to see. I think the
>> solution is not to stop going there to bird but for everyone to act more
>> responsibly, obey the law and not "crowd" up.
>>
>> The concern I haven't heard anyone bring up is the possible harm a large
>> group converging on a sighting might have to the wildlife and in particular
>> the Pygmy Owls.  I had a resident walking his dog express that concern to
>> me.  He mentioned that the Great Horned Owls in the valley prey on the
>> Pygmies and that once the owls establish a nest that he is concerned a
>> large group might point it out to the GH's.  I would like to hear people's
>> opinion regarding that.
>>
>> I would also like to comment on the comments made about people with "big
>> camera lenses" looking to get a photograph of a bird.  Maybe a few of you
>> have seen me out there birding and photographing, I'm the guy carrying his
>> big lense on a tripod over his shoulder. If this offends some people I am
>> sorry but it's how I choose to bird.   I fall in the group of photographers
>> who bird and In my opinion having a big camera lens allows me to get close
>> enough to a bird to not only ID, it but enjoy the incredible detail and
>> beauty from afar with the least amount of disturbance to the wildlife.  I
>> like to get good photos of them to share and also to help me learn about
>> and ID them.  I would agree there are a few rotten apples out there doing
>> bad things to "get the photo",  but please do not lump all of us with long
>> lenses in that group.
>>
>> Enough said,
>>
>> John Salisbury
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 2:14 PM Eric DeFonso  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>> Others may have more information than I offer in this response, but for
>>> what it's worth, I visit this particular location fairly frequently, being
>>> as it is only 10-12 minutes drive from my residence. It's one of my few
>>> "patches", and I go there not simply to ogle the pygmy-owl (as it is, I
>>> rarely encounter it myself), but to bird. It's a great birding spot, and
>>> very peaceful.
>>>
>>> Over the past few months, my birding visits to this spot have seen quite
>>> a few more people than I had been used to seeing, compared to prior years
>>> and seasons. In general this area is popular with dog-walkers,
>>> power-walkers, walker-talkers (friends out for a walk and a chat), runners,
>>> cyclists, and of course, birders. And now, with the advent of a
>>> regularly-seen owl, photographers. And birder-photographers. And birders
>>> who wield cameras but don't really consider themselves photographers (I
>>> include myself in this latter category). Even so, on most days I visit this
>>> spot the number of other birder/photogs is easily less than 8 at any time,
>>> and often less than 4, spread out over a stretch of road that's over a mile
>>> long. Sometimes I'm even the only birder there, although since last fall,
>>> that's rarely the case because of this owl. On the days I go, people will
>>> ask me as I walk by "Have you seen it?", assuming that because I carry a
>>> camera I'm looking for the owl just like they are. I usually say "Not
>>> today", which is the truth most of the time since I really don't see it
>>> very much, but again, I'm not there specifically looking for it (although
>>> like anyone I'd always be delighted 

[cobirds] Everyone loves owls!

[Peter Burke]

COBirders,
The pygmy-owl scene in Lyons is one of those times when "our" hobby spills
over into the public consciousness. We see this when a rare bird shows up
in a residential area, or when a group of non-birders happen across a group
of birders. In these moments we can focus on what we have in common or what
makes us different.

Somewhere in all this conflict is an opportunity for us birders to share
our knowledge and appreciation of birds with these other folks who are
clearly interested, but maybe less familiar with some of the finer points
of birding etiquette. Sharing a scope or binoculars is a great way to
strike up conversation.

The homeowners on Old Saint Vrain Rd. have been putting up with us birders
for decades. Many of them have politely engaged with us and forged an
alliance of sorts. Perhaps we can do the same with the photographers drawn
to this location with the dream of getting good photos of an otherwise hard
to see bird.

On a personal note, I too am a birder+photographer. It takes a while to
learn when it is ok to approach birds and when it's not, and part of that
process is feedback from other photographers, birders, homeowners, etc. If
we provide that feedback constructively, then we're helping.

Good birding everyone,

Peter Burke
CFO Board of Directors

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Re: [cobirds] a situation (Boulder)

['The Nunn Guy' via Colorado Birds]

Hi all

FYI, we've all probably read similar in the past, just a refresher 
... https://www.audubon.org/get-outside/audubons-guide-ethical-bird-photography

Thanks Gary Lefko, Nunn
https://www.friendsofthepawneegrassland.org/
https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/birds-and-more-of-the-pawnee-national-grassland


On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 9:15:11 AM UTC-7 andrea...@gmail.com wrote:

> Everybody is getting really worked up over this. I’m both a birder and a 
> photographer. I have a nice pair of binoculars, a nice scope AND I shoot 
> with a 600mm lens.  Sometimes, in the birding community, people may have 
> antagonist feelings toward photographers and at times and use the word “big 
> lens“ in a negative tone. In my mind, a big lens means you don’t need to 
> get close to the subject. It keeps you at a safe distance. Distance keeps 
> the bird performing their normal behavior.   I care about the birds that I 
> photograph and I keep a respectful distance. I pull off the the side of the 
> road to park. I’ve been to that spot a couple of times and I recognized 
> both birders and photographers and I even made a few new friends along the 
> way. While there are always the bad apples that ruin the bunch, from the 
> photography perspective, I call those people out if they’re being 
> reckless.  That being said, the reckless people I’ve seen over the years 
> aren’t always true wildlife photographers.  They are people trying to 
> photograph a bird up close with a cell phone. True ‘Birders’ are typically 
> almost always caring for the birds that they see. 
>
> I feel like I’m arguing about politics right now. Us against them. Can’t 
> we be both? Both a birder and a photographer? I like to think that I strike 
> the balance of both. Most of the people that I’m acquainted with do also.  
> In this particular situation, sometimes you have to wait hours before you 
> even get a glimpse of the owl. I can understand why this would be 
> frustrating for locals, seeing cars and people on their quiet road. It’s 
> like having paparazzi there. That being said, it won’t last forever. I love 
> that people are out enjoying nature during a time that we are still in a 
> pandemic and we have a war going on in Ukraine. People need something else 
> to care about. If people don’t say something beautiful, they’re less apt to 
> care about it. Can’t we all get along?
>
> Andi-Douglas County, Bird Nerd and photographer
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:03 PM DAVID J WALTMAN  
> wrote:
>
>> Dave’s latest message explained a mystery I had.   I was at the Lyons owl 
>> site this morning for the first time in weeks.  There must have been at 
>> least twenty owl photographers there.  What puzzled me is why I didn’t 
>> recognize a single person.  I’ve been birding in Boulder county for many 
>> decades and I typically know several birders when there is gathering for a 
>> good bird, but not today.  I took one photo of the photographers with my 
>> iPhone.  There are twelve people in my photo (blocking both lanes of the 
>> road).  Every single person has a camera, and many have  cameras with large 
>> to huge lenses, and I can only spot one person with possible binoculars.  
>> These are not birders.  These are photographers that have heard about the 
>> photo op from the internet.  It’s no wonder I didn’t recognize any of 
>> them.  And maybe that’s why they don’t observe birding etiquette? 
>> David Waltman 
>> Boulder 
>>
>> On 03/03/2022 4:23 PM DAVID A LEATHERMAN  wrote: 
>>
>>
>> What do you get when you mix the following ingredients: a nice peaceful 
>> and beautiful area near bigger, fast-growing human population centers; an 
>> owl that attracts another owl and they appear in the same area on a repeat 
>> basis; humans under the influence of a multi-year covid pandemic and spring 
>> fever; locals who remember fondly the "way it used to be"; high quality 
>> photography equipment within the price range of many; Facebook and COBIRDS 
>> and eBird and other sources of up-to-date intel?  Answer: a situation 
>> (Boulder). 
>>
>> I appreciate all the public and private responses.  Based on what you all 
>> have shared about various ingredients, the "situation" is quite 
>> understandable.   
>>
>> Fully acknowledging the truth of what Robin said about broad brushes, I 
>> was made aware of a Facebook group called the "Colorado Bird Photographers" 
>> which has 9800 members.  Wow, that's a lot of folks and I'm sure 90% have 
>> parents who brag about them.  Several photos of the Lyons' pygmy-owls have 
>> appeared on that site.  Sometimes unpredictable, strange things happen as a 
>> result of social media.  I remember well the night the rental house next to 
>> my apartment complex advertised a party to a limited number of friends.  To 
>> the surprise of the party organizers, over 100 cars descended on our street 
>> and alley.  Soon under-the-influence kids were walking, yelling, littering 
>> and worse in their yard, our 

Re: [cobirds] A situation (Boulder)

[Diana Beatty]

I would like to ask about the CPWs distance recommendations for
viewing/photographing roosting raptors.  I find birders/photographers are
usually far closer than they recommend.  [image: cpw distance.jpg]

Diana Beatty
El Paso County

On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 9:15 AM John Salisbury 
wrote:

> Well said Eric!
>
> The objection that has been raised is to the large groups carvaning to the
> area and converging on a sighting location.  My experience on Old St. Vrain
> is very similar to Eric's. I have encountered a "large group" only a couple
> of times and then only for a few minutes.  Others may have experienced more
> of a crowd it sounds like.  I can understand the local resident's concern
> that there are a lot more people than there may have been in the past using
> the road these days.  Runners, dog walkers, cyclists, birders.  Yes things
> change but it is a public road.  We are all within our rights to be there
> as long as we are not blocking the road or breaking the law.  I agree
> everyone needs to be respectful to the people who live there and to the
> wildlife we are all trying to see. I think the solution is not to stop
> going there to bird but for everyone to act more responsibly, obey the law
> and not "crowd" up.
>
> The concern I haven't heard anyone bring up is the possible harm a large
> group converging on a sighting might have to the wildlife and in particular
> the Pygmy Owls.  I had a resident walking his dog express that concern to
> me.  He mentioned that the Great Horned Owls in the valley prey on the
> Pygmies and that once the owls establish a nest that he is concerned a
> large group might point it out to the GH's.  I would like to hear people's
> opinion regarding that.
>
> I would also like to comment on the comments made about people with "big
> camera lenses" looking to get a photograph of a bird.  Maybe a few of you
> have seen me out there birding and photographing, I'm the guy carrying his
> big lense on a tripod over his shoulder. If this offends some people I am
> sorry but it's how I choose to bird.   I fall in the group of photographers
> who bird and In my opinion having a big camera lens allows me to get close
> enough to a bird to not only ID, it but enjoy the incredible detail and
> beauty from afar with the least amount of disturbance to the wildlife.  I
> like to get good photos of them to share and also to help me learn about
> and ID them.  I would agree there are a few rotten apples out there doing
> bad things to "get the photo",  but please do not lump all of us with long
> lenses in that group.
>
> Enough said,
>
> John Salisbury
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 2:14 PM Eric DeFonso  wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Others may have more information than I offer in this response, but for
>> what it's worth, I visit this particular location fairly frequently, being
>> as it is only 10-12 minutes drive from my residence. It's one of my few
>> "patches", and I go there not simply to ogle the pygmy-owl (as it is, I
>> rarely encounter it myself), but to bird. It's a great birding spot, and
>> very peaceful.
>>
>> Over the past few months, my birding visits to this spot have seen quite
>> a few more people than I had been used to seeing, compared to prior years
>> and seasons. In general this area is popular with dog-walkers,
>> power-walkers, walker-talkers (friends out for a walk and a chat), runners,
>> cyclists, and of course, birders. And now, with the advent of a
>> regularly-seen owl, photographers. And birder-photographers. And birders
>> who wield cameras but don't really consider themselves photographers (I
>> include myself in this latter category). Even so, on most days I visit this
>> spot the number of other birder/photogs is easily less than 8 at any time,
>> and often less than 4, spread out over a stretch of road that's over a mile
>> long. Sometimes I'm even the only birder there, although since last fall,
>> that's rarely the case because of this owl. On the days I go, people will
>> ask me as I walk by "Have you seen it?", assuming that because I carry a
>> camera I'm looking for the owl just like they are. I usually say "Not
>> today", which is the truth most of the time since I really don't see it
>> very much, but again, I'm not there specifically looking for it (although
>> like anyone I'd always be delighted to see it). Many visits from non-locals
>> to this area come up empty, with no owl views and hours spent fruitlessly
>> gazing up at old squirrel and oriole nests and empty cottonwood branches.
>>
>> However, I have heard on occasion of groups like what was described
>> secondhand, larger groups of 8,10, or 15 people caravaning to the area,
>> usually on weekends but not necessarily, usually on nice sunny days but
>> also not necessarily, looking for and sometimes locating the bird. I too
>> have heard of bad behavior on occasion there when that happens, although
>> I've never personally witnessed it. The one occasion I was there recently
>> 

Re: [cobirds] a situation (Boulder)

[John Salisbury]

David,

I need to listen to what you and others are saying about photographers
``just there for the shot", I want to undertsand the concern of people with
cameras disturbing others there to "just" bird .  One thing I would mention
however regarding your comment about the group being composed of all
photographers and no one you recognized.  Did it occur to anyone that this
COBirds group is spreading the word of the owl to people all over the state
who are willing to travel a few miles to see it?  This crowd phenomena to
see a rare or special bird is happening all over the State due to the
popularity of birding and also efficient and timely communication of the
location of the birds. Two other recent examples, the Eurasian Wigeon at
Pella Crossing and the Pyrrhuloxia in Wheatridge.  The word gets out and is
discussed in great detail here in this group motivating many people to
converge on the sighting.  I don't advocate disbanding COBirds, but people
using common sense, practicing respect for the residents in the area and
each other whether they carry a set of binoculars or a camera.

John


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:03 PM DAVID J WALTMAN 
wrote:

> Dave’s latest message explained a mystery I had.   I was at the Lyons owl
> site this morning for the first time in weeks.  There must have been at
> least twenty owl photographers there.  What puzzled me is why I didn’t
> recognize a single person.  I’ve been birding in Boulder county for many
> decades and I typically know several birders when there is gathering for a
> good bird, but not today.  I took one photo of the photographers with my
> iPhone.  There are twelve people in my photo (blocking both lanes of the
> road).  Every single person has a camera, and many have  cameras with large
> to huge lenses, and I can only spot one person with possible binoculars.
> These are not birders.  These are photographers that have heard about the
> photo op from the internet.  It’s no wonder I didn’t recognize any of
> them.  And maybe that’s why they don’t observe birding etiquette?
> David Waltman
> Boulder
>
> On 03/03/2022 4:23 PM DAVID A LEATHERMAN  wrote:
>
>
> What do you get when you mix the following ingredients: a nice peaceful
> and beautiful area near bigger, fast-growing human population centers; an
> owl that attracts another owl and they appear in the same area on a repeat
> basis; humans under the influence of a multi-year covid pandemic and spring
> fever; locals who remember fondly the "way it used to be"; high quality
> photography equipment within the price range of many; Facebook and COBIRDS
> and eBird and other sources of up-to-date intel?  Answer: a situation
> (Boulder).
>
> I appreciate all the public and private responses.  Based on what you all
> have shared about various ingredients, the "situation" is quite
> understandable.
>
> Fully acknowledging the truth of what Robin said about broad brushes, I
> was made aware of a Facebook group called the "Colorado Bird Photographers"
> which has 9800 members.  Wow, that's a lot of folks and I'm sure 90% have
> parents who brag about them.  Several photos of the Lyons' pygmy-owls have
> appeared on that site.  Sometimes unpredictable, strange things happen as a
> result of social media.  I remember well the night the rental house next to
> my apartment complex advertised a party to a limited number of friends.  To
> the surprise of the party organizers, over 100 cars descended on our street
> and alley.  Soon under-the-influence kids were walking, yelling, littering
> and worse in their yard, our courtyard and elsewhere.  While not nearly as
> disturbing, maybe something like that is happening west of Lyons.  Personal
> discoveries added to word-of-mouth chats added to postings within rather
> large groups have led to a situation with unintended consequences.  I have
> suggested to one of our leaders that a formal contact be made between us
> and the Facebook photography group.  We should exchange organizational
> goals, ethics guidelines and be on the same team.
>
> I am glad to know birders don't seem to be main culprits in this situation
> and just hope we all behave.
>
> Dave Leatherman
> Fort Collins
>
>
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Re: [cobirds] a situation (Boulder)

[Andi P]

Everybody is getting really worked up over this. I’m both a birder and a
photographer. I have a nice pair of binoculars, a nice scope AND I shoot
with a 600mm lens.  Sometimes, in the birding community, people may have
antagonist feelings toward photographers and at times and use the word “big
lens“ in a negative tone. In my mind, a big lens means you don’t need to
get close to the subject. It keeps you at a safe distance. Distance keeps
the bird performing their normal behavior.   I care about the birds that I
photograph and I keep a respectful distance. I pull off the the side of the
road to park. I’ve been to that spot a couple of times and I recognized
both birders and photographers and I even made a few new friends along the
way. While there are always the bad apples that ruin the bunch, from the
photography perspective, I call those people out if they’re being
reckless.  That being said, the reckless people I’ve seen over the years
aren’t always true wildlife photographers.  They are people trying to
photograph a bird up close with a cell phone. True ‘Birders’ are typically
almost always caring for the birds that they see.

I feel like I’m arguing about politics right now. Us against them. Can’t we
be both? Both a birder and a photographer? I like to think that I strike
the balance of both. Most of the people that I’m acquainted with do also.
In this particular situation, sometimes you have to wait hours before you
even get a glimpse of the owl. I can understand why this would be
frustrating for locals, seeing cars and people on their quiet road. It’s
like having paparazzi there. That being said, it won’t last forever. I love
that people are out enjoying nature during a time that we are still in a
pandemic and we have a war going on in Ukraine. People need something else
to care about. If people don’t say something beautiful, they’re less apt to
care about it. Can’t we all get along?

Andi-Douglas County, Bird Nerd and photographer

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:03 PM DAVID J WALTMAN 
wrote:

> Dave’s latest message explained a mystery I had.   I was at the Lyons owl
> site this morning for the first time in weeks.  There must have been at
> least twenty owl photographers there.  What puzzled me is why I didn’t
> recognize a single person.  I’ve been birding in Boulder county for many
> decades and I typically know several birders when there is gathering for a
> good bird, but not today.  I took one photo of the photographers with my
> iPhone.  There are twelve people in my photo (blocking both lanes of the
> road).  Every single person has a camera, and many have  cameras with large
> to huge lenses, and I can only spot one person with possible binoculars.
> These are not birders.  These are photographers that have heard about the
> photo op from the internet.  It’s no wonder I didn’t recognize any of
> them.  And maybe that’s why they don’t observe birding etiquette?
> David Waltman
> Boulder
>
> On 03/03/2022 4:23 PM DAVID A LEATHERMAN  wrote:
>
>
> What do you get when you mix the following ingredients: a nice peaceful
> and beautiful area near bigger, fast-growing human population centers; an
> owl that attracts another owl and they appear in the same area on a repeat
> basis; humans under the influence of a multi-year covid pandemic and spring
> fever; locals who remember fondly the "way it used to be"; high quality
> photography equipment within the price range of many; Facebook and COBIRDS
> and eBird and other sources of up-to-date intel?  Answer: a situation
> (Boulder).
>
> I appreciate all the public and private responses.  Based on what you all
> have shared about various ingredients, the "situation" is quite
> understandable.
>
> Fully acknowledging the truth of what Robin said about broad brushes, I
> was made aware of a Facebook group called the "Colorado Bird Photographers"
> which has 9800 members.  Wow, that's a lot of folks and I'm sure 90% have
> parents who brag about them.  Several photos of the Lyons' pygmy-owls have
> appeared on that site.  Sometimes unpredictable, strange things happen as a
> result of social media.  I remember well the night the rental house next to
> my apartment complex advertised a party to a limited number of friends.  To
> the surprise of the party organizers, over 100 cars descended on our street
> and alley.  Soon under-the-influence kids were walking, yelling, littering
> and worse in their yard, our courtyard and elsewhere.  While not nearly as
> disturbing, maybe something like that is happening west of Lyons.  Personal
> discoveries added to word-of-mouth chats added to postings within rather
> large groups have led to a situation with unintended consequences.  I have
> suggested to one of our leaders that a formal contact be made between us
> and the Facebook photography group.  We should exchange organizational
> goals, ethics guidelines and be on the same team.
>
> I am glad to know birders don't seem to be main culprits in this situation
> and 

Re: [cobirds] A situation (Boulder)

[John Salisbury]

Well said Eric!

The objection that has been raised is to the large groups carvaning to the
area and converging on a sighting location.  My experience on Old St. Vrain
is very similar to Eric's. I have encountered a "large group" only a couple
of times and then only for a few minutes.  Others may have experienced more
of a crowd it sounds like.  I can understand the local resident's concern
that there are a lot more people than there may have been in the past using
the road these days.  Runners, dog walkers, cyclists, birders.  Yes things
change but it is a public road.  We are all within our rights to be there
as long as we are not blocking the road or breaking the law.  I agree
everyone needs to be respectful to the people who live there and to the
wildlife we are all trying to see. I think the solution is not to stop
going there to bird but for everyone to act more responsibly, obey the law
and not "crowd" up.

The concern I haven't heard anyone bring up is the possible harm a large
group converging on a sighting might have to the wildlife and in particular
the Pygmy Owls.  I had a resident walking his dog express that concern to
me.  He mentioned that the Great Horned Owls in the valley prey on the
Pygmies and that once the owls establish a nest that he is concerned a
large group might point it out to the GH's.  I would like to hear people's
opinion regarding that.

I would also like to comment on the comments made about people with "big
camera lenses" looking to get a photograph of a bird.  Maybe a few of you
have seen me out there birding and photographing, I'm the guy carrying his
big lense on a tripod over his shoulder. If this offends some people I am
sorry but it's how I choose to bird.   I fall in the group of photographers
who bird and In my opinion having a big camera lens allows me to get close
enough to a bird to not only ID, it but enjoy the incredible detail and
beauty from afar with the least amount of disturbance to the wildlife.  I
like to get good photos of them to share and also to help me learn about
and ID them.  I would agree there are a few rotten apples out there doing
bad things to "get the photo",  but please do not lump all of us with long
lenses in that group.

Enough said,

John Salisbury


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 2:14 PM Eric DeFonso  wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Others may have more information than I offer in this response, but for
> what it's worth, I visit this particular location fairly frequently, being
> as it is only 10-12 minutes drive from my residence. It's one of my few
> "patches", and I go there not simply to ogle the pygmy-owl (as it is, I
> rarely encounter it myself), but to bird. It's a great birding spot, and
> very peaceful.
>
> Over the past few months, my birding visits to this spot have seen quite a
> few more people than I had been used to seeing, compared to prior years and
> seasons. In general this area is popular with dog-walkers, power-walkers,
> walker-talkers (friends out for a walk and a chat), runners, cyclists, and
> of course, birders. And now, with the advent of a regularly-seen owl,
> photographers. And birder-photographers. And birders who wield cameras but
> don't really consider themselves photographers (I include myself in this
> latter category). Even so, on most days I visit this spot the number of
> other birder/photogs is easily less than 8 at any time, and often less than
> 4, spread out over a stretch of road that's over a mile long. Sometimes I'm
> even the only birder there, although since last fall, that's rarely the
> case because of this owl. On the days I go, people will ask me as I walk by
> "Have you seen it?", assuming that because I carry a camera I'm looking for
> the owl just like they are. I usually say "Not today", which is the truth
> most of the time since I really don't see it very much, but again, I'm not
> there specifically looking for it (although like anyone I'd always be
> delighted to see it). Many visits from non-locals to this area come up
> empty, with no owl views and hours spent fruitlessly gazing up at old
> squirrel and oriole nests and empty cottonwood branches.
>
> However, I have heard on occasion of groups like what was described
> secondhand, larger groups of 8,10, or 15 people caravaning to the area,
> usually on weekends but not necessarily, usually on nice sunny days but
> also not necessarily, looking for and sometimes locating the bird. I too
> have heard of bad behavior on occasion there when that happens, although
> I've never personally witnessed it. The one occasion I was there recently
> when I did see the bird(s), I noted that everyone there (maybe 8-10 people
> at the most at any one moment) behaved quite well, and there was certainly
> no need for people to trespass or trample anything to get to a good viewing
> or photo spot that day. But I do know that the owl can occur in many
> possible areas along that road, and other circumstances and on other days
> there can be way more people, 

[cobirds] Sedge Wren Arapahoe County

['Dan Stringer' via Colorado Birds]

Three of us were surprised to see the Sedge Wren yesterday 3/3 at the same 
spot it was originally found by Cole Sage in January. S Platte Park Area, W 
side of river about 1/3 mile N of the parking area. (39.5710642, 
-105.0407814)  We took a leisurely stroll around the lakes in 60 degree 
weather, when we got to the place along the river where it had been seen we 
paused and were talking about non-wren topics for a few minutes, then heard 
it and had great diagnostic views. Delightful, thanks again Cole.

Dan Stringer
Larkspur, CO

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Re: [cobirds] A situation (Boulder)

[Gary Bowen (Thornton)]

Well said, Robin! I fit in the photographer-birder group and shoot with a 
960mm (effective) lens on a 32.5 MP camera so I *don't* have to disturb the 
subject or place myself in danger.

Gary Bowen
Thornton

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 5:02:33 PM UTC-7 ynoz4...@gmail.com wrote:

> Respectfully, you left out a category. Photographers who love to 
> photograph birds and do so ethically. I sincerely hope there are more of us 
> than the ones that behave as you describe.
>
> I just want people to understand that there are photographers out there 
> with big lenses that are not the “bad guys”.
>
> The reason I use a big lens is so that I can get a halfway decent photo 
> without intruding on the bird, or going where I shouldn’t. I will add, good 
> photographers know how to handle bad lighting.
>
> My husband and I chose NOT to look for the owl in question today precisely 
> because so many pictures of it were shared on social media recently, 
> suggesting way too many people were seeking it.
>
> Certainly, call out those who behave poorly. Just please don’t paint us 
> all with the same brush.
>
> Happy birding.
>
> Robin Jasper
>
> Loveland
>
>  
>
> *From:* cob...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of *Mel 
> Goff
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:55 PM
> *To:* DAVID A LEATHERMAN ; COBIRDS <
> cob...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [cobirds] A situation (Boulder)
>
>  
>
> In my experience, there are birders, birders who take photos of birds, and 
> photographers. The latter are all about the photo. Backlit? No problem. 
> I'll just crawl over this fence and go into the backyard so I can get the 
> perfect shot. Bird sitting on inner branches? No problem. I'll just crawl 
> up under the overhanging branches to get an open view. Private property? No 
> problem. I'll only be in their yard for a few minutes. 
>
>  
>
> I have seen this everywhere. Cutting in front of shorter folks for a 
> better angle. Driving on fragile habitat to get as close as possible. 
> Admittedly, this should not be an indictment of all photographers, amateur 
> or professional. But we all see enough of this that we must (and often do) 
> speak up. 
>
>  
>
> Mel Goff 
>
> Colorado Springs, El Paso county 
>
>  
>
> On 03/03/2022 11:42 AM DAVID A LEATHERMAN  wrote: 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> It has come to my attention that photographers, some of whom may be 
> birders, are causing a problem west of Lyons in their lust for a 
> pygmy-owl.  At the risk of pissing some of you off, and causing even more 
> people to seek this bird by publicizing it, I ask for restraint.  The 
> person who called me is not a birder but a guy I used to work with who 
> knows I am into birds.  He owns property bordering Route 7 w of town where 
> he says 16 cars full of loud-talking people pointing big cameras, rutting 
> the right-of-way that he maintains are back again today, the way they have 
> been in numbers for days (weeks?).  He is upset and I don't blame him.  He 
> says that whoever these people are, they don't really care about the bird, 
> that they act very entitled, that this is all just about getting the photo 
> and social.  In short these sorts of situations give birders a black eye 
> and they are becoming more commonplace.  If anyone reading this knows about 
> the situation first hand, has been there, has a comment or rebuttal I can 
> pass on to my friend, I am all ears.  My friend hasn't called the sheriff 
> yet but is about to and it makes me sad to think "we" might have caused a 
> reasonable person with deep sentiments for conservation and the natural 
> world to be so upset. 
>
>  
>
> Dave Leatherman 
>
> Fort Collins 
>
>  
>
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