Re: Trigger "Back to..." from code?

[Conrad Shultz]

As always, if helpful API is missing, please file a bug at 
https://bugreport.apple.com and explain your use case.

Thanks,
Conrad

> On Nov 16, 2015, at 6:41 PM, Eric Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> Bummer. I was writing a Workflow script to do stuff and just wanted it
> to be able to return me back to where I started when it's done, instead
> of having to do it by hand. I didn't figure there was a way, but it
> would have been helpful.
> 
> Daniel Phillips wrote:
>> No this is all out of your control. 
>> 
>> You'll only see that when landing in an app from another app. 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Eric "Sheppy" Shepherd
> http://www.sheppyware.net/
> http://www.bitstampede.org/
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Re: Voiceover support

[Conrad Shultz]

One other thing you may find helpful is to test your app using Screen Curtain 
(https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/technotes/TestingAccessibilityOfiOSApps/TestAccessibilityonYourDevicewithVoiceOver/TestAccessibilityonYourDevicewithVoiceOver.html
 
),
 which, with VoiceOver on, you can toggle by triple tapping with three fingers.

Screen Curtain turns off the display. Knowing that your app is fully usable 
with Screen Curtain on can go some way toward knowing it’s accessible.

-Conrad

> On Nov 16, 2015, at 5:46 AM, Daniel Phillips  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> Thank you very much for your advice and feedback. I've subscribed to the 
> accessibility mailing list now, I didn't even think about that before 
> emailing my original message on here. Sorry for that!
> 
> Andrew, thank you for pointing me to RNIB, I think I may indeed be emailing 
> them for some discussions.

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Assigning an element of a swift array to a userdata parameter triggers didSet

[Eric Gorr]

I created the default Cocoa/Swift app. My AppDelegate class is below. I have 
hooked the view in the window to the view IBOutlet in the AppDelegate.

What I am trying to do is assign a element from an array to the userdata for a 
tooltip. The code executes and prints 'did set' three times. I would have 
thought it would only print 'did set' twice, but the third time is when 
addToolTipRect is called and I pass in the first element of the array as the 
userdata for the tooltip rect.

This seems strange to me and I was wondering if anyone knew how I could avoid 
this behavior. The behavior I was looking for is for didSet to only be called 
when myArray was assigned to perhaps a different array entirely. Perhaps didSet 
is not what I want to be using...and, if not, what should it be?


@NSApplicationMain
class AppDelegate: NSObject, NSApplicationDelegate
{
@IBOutlet weak var window: NSWindow!
@IBOutlet weak var view:   NSView!

var myArray = [[String:AnyObject]]()
{
didSet
{
NSLog( "did set" )
}
}

override func view(view: NSView, stringForToolTip tag: NSToolTipTag, point: 
NSPoint, userData data: UnsafeMutablePointer) -> String
{
let pUserData = UnsafeMutablePointer<[String:AnyObject]>(data)
let userData  = pUserData.memory

return "hello"
}

func applicationDidFinishLaunching(aNotification: NSNotification)
{
self.myArray.append( [ "one" : "a" ] )
self.myArray.append( [ "two" : "b" ] )

view.addToolTipRect( NSMakeRect( 0, 0, 100, 100), owner: self, 
userData: &(myArray[0]) )
}



func applicationWillTerminate(aNotification: NSNotification)
{
}
}
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a question concerning how to fire a message at the beginning of my application

[Scott Berry]

Hello there,

I was wondering would it be wiser for me to put a notification or an art.  This 
must be presented because otherwise this program could be dangerous without the 
message.  It has to do with flying.



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Re: a question concerning how to fire a message at the beginning of my application

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 15:59 , Scott Berry  wrote:
> 
> I was wondering would it be wiser for me to put a notification or an art.  

You mean “alert"?

> This must be presented because otherwise this program could be dangerous 
> without the message.

If it’s dangerous, you presumably would want the user to respond before 
proceeding. In that case, a modal alert with 2 buttons sounds like the right 
approach, and ‘applicationDidFinishLaunching’ (in the app delegate) is the 
easiest place to do it.
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Re: Customising NSFontManager

[Graham Cox]

Anyone know what NSFontManager’s designated initializer is?

I have set the Font Manager’s factory class to my subclass of NSFontManager is 
previously discussed, but its -init method is never called. The Font Manager 
object is part of MainMenu.xib, which has ‘prefer coder’ unchecked. In any 
case, NSFontManager doesn’t implement NSCoding so it does not appear to expect 
-initWithCoder: anyway.

—Graham






> On 14 Nov 2015, at 9:37 AM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> Thanks- main() is the only place that works. I tried run() and even init() of 
> the application, but even they were too late.


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Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on that 
OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.

I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. I’ve 
got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run under 
El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run it on, I 
can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t run either.)

What’s the right way to go about this?

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

Yeah, Apple really make it hard to set up older OS installs for dev testing.

If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the boot 
drive and reboot, does that work? The installers are (I believe) designed to 
run with no OS at all.

—Graham






> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Customising NSFontManager

[Roland King]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 09:00, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:46 AM, Roland King  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 08:26, Graham Cox  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyone know what NSFontManager’s designated initializer is?
>>> 
>>> I have set the Font Manager’s factory class to my subclass of NSFontManager 
>>> is previously discussed, but its -init method is never called. The Font 
>>> Manager object is part of MainMenu.xib, which has ‘prefer coder’ unchecked. 
>>> In any case, NSFontManager doesn’t implement NSCoding so it does not appear 
>>> to expect -initWithCoder: anyway.
>>> 
>>> —Graham
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> The documentation claims it’s init()
>> 
>> "Your font manager class should implement init as its designated 
>> initializer.”
> 
> 
> Hmmm, oddly enough the documentation set I have does not mention this 
> anywhere that I can see.
> 

Sorry it’s a bit early here - I should have said that was the documentation for 
+setFontManagerFactory - which in my docset at least says init() is the method. 


> 
>> 
>> It also seems to indicate that having it part of MainMenu.xib is too late
> 
>> "This method must be invoked before your application’s main nib file is 
>> loaded, such as in the application delegate’s 
>> applicationWillFinishLaunching: method.”
> 
> That statement is self contradictory. The app’s delegate is part of the 
> MainMenu.xib, generally speaking, so that method can’t be invoked before the 
> nib is loaded. In any case, experiemnt bears out that the factory class has 
> to be set in main().
> 
> The standard app template puts the Font Manager in MainMenu.xib by default as 
> well, I think - it’s been a very long time since this app was new so things 
> might have changed in that regard. However, it’s too late to change that 
> because I directly connect some things, such as items in the standard Text 
> menu, to the Font Manager instance.
> 
> I was setting the factory class in main() and getting the right object class 
> at runtime, but my -init method was never called. If I change the class type 
> in IB to my subclass, then its init method is now called. If I then remove 
> the setting of the factory class from main(), then I get a NSFontManager 
> instance even though the class in IB is something else. So for some reason, I 
> need to do both to get the right class and have it inited correctly. This 
> seems weird to me - maybe the Font Manager is a special case or I’m not 
> propery understanding what’s going on (very likely).


I don’t understand some of that either - it looks to me that setting the 
factory class in main should be enough and init() should be called. One thought 
about why it doesn’t work if you put it in the XIB file *only*, is the class 
itself referenced in your code anywhere or only in the XIB? If the class isn’t 
referenced in code, it’s not linked into the binary and when the XIB loads it 
falls back to the superclass. I have more than one project with a stub piece of 
code, which doesn’t do anything, but is linked in just to get the code for a 
NIB-only object in the binary. Here’s one of them, I don’t even think I ever 
call loadClasses, its existence is enough. 

@interface LINKERHACK : NSObject
+(void)loadClasses;
@end


@implementation LINKERHACK
+(void)loadClasses
{
Class   __unused class1 = [ RKTouchLabelViewclass ];
Class   __unused class2 = [ RKMultiColoredBar   class ];
}
@end

> 
> —Graham

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Re: KVO question

[Daniel Stenmark]

It seems like it *should* work.  Are you sure you don’t have a typo in your 
addObserver: method?  Considering that you’re using the dictionary’s property 
setter, keyPathsForValuesAffecting shouldn’t even be necessary.  When I 
apply KVO, I try to mitigate the potential unsafely of key paths strings by 
using NSStringFromSelector() whenever possible.

[self.foo addObserver:self forKeyPath:NSStringFromSelector(@selector(bar)) 
options:NSKeyValueObservingOptionNew context:NULL];

Dan


On Nov 17, 2015, at 5:18 PM, Graham Cox 
> wrote:

I’m using KVO to observe a bunch of properties.

Most of these properties are split out into simple things that set a single 
value, but internal to my object, some end up setting a common dictionary of 
attributes, which is also a property.

I KVO observe both the simple properties and the common dictionary property. 
Mostly this is working, but when code directly sets the dictionary property, 
the other properties don’t trigger their observers, even though I’m 
implementing the +keyPathsForValuesAffecting, which I believe should 
cause the additional triggering. Have I understood that right?

Here’s the kind of code I have:


@property (retain) id thingy;
@property (retain) NSDicitonary* dictionaryOfThings;

@implementation

- (void)   setThingy:(is thing
{
NSMutableDictionary* temp = [self.dictionaryOfThings mutableCopy];
[temp setObject:thing forKey:kThingKey];
self.dictionaryOfThings = temp;
}

- (id) thingy
{
return [self.dictionaryOfThings objectForKey:kThingKey];
}


+ (NSSet*)  keyPathsForValuesAffectingThingy
{
return [NSSet setWithObject:@“dictionaryOfThings”];
}


So what I want (expect?) is that is code sets -dictionaryOfThings directly, an 
observer of ‘thingy’ will be triggered. Is that right?


—Graham



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Re: Customising NSFontManager

[Graham Cox]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:46 AM, Roland King  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 08:26, Graham Cox  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone know what NSFontManager’s designated initializer is?
>> 
>> I have set the Font Manager’s factory class to my subclass of NSFontManager 
>> is previously discussed, but its -init method is never called. The Font 
>> Manager object is part of MainMenu.xib, which has ‘prefer coder’ unchecked. 
>> In any case, NSFontManager doesn’t implement NSCoding so it does not appear 
>> to expect -initWithCoder: anyway.
>> 
>> —Graham
>> 
>> 
> 
> The documentation claims it’s init()
> 
> "Your font manager class should implement init as its designated initializer.”


Hmmm, oddly enough the documentation set I have does not mention this anywhere 
that I can see.


> 
> It also seems to indicate that having it part of MainMenu.xib is too late

> "This method must be invoked before your application’s main nib file is 
> loaded, such as in the application delegate’s applicationWillFinishLaunching: 
> method.”

That statement is self contradictory. The app’s delegate is part of the 
MainMenu.xib, generally speaking, so that method can’t be invoked before the 
nib is loaded. In any case, experiemnt bears out that the factory class has to 
be set in main().

The standard app template puts the Font Manager in MainMenu.xib by default as 
well, I think - it’s been a very long time since this app was new so things 
might have changed in that regard. However, it’s too late to change that 
because I directly connect some things, such as items in the standard Text 
menu, to the Font Manager instance.

I was setting the factory class in main() and getting the right object class at 
runtime, but my -init method was never called. If I change the class type in IB 
to my subclass, then its init method is now called. If I then remove the 
setting of the factory class from main(), then I get a NSFontManager instance 
even though the class in IB is something else. So for some reason, I need to do 
both to get the right class and have it inited correctly. This seems weird to 
me - maybe the Font Manager is a special case or I’m not propery understanding 
what’s going on (very likely).

—Graham



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KVO question

[Graham Cox]

I’m using KVO to observe a bunch of properties.

Most of these properties are split out into simple things that set a single 
value, but internal to my object, some end up setting a common dictionary of 
attributes, which is also a property.

I KVO observe both the simple properties and the common dictionary property. 
Mostly this is working, but when code directly sets the dictionary property, 
the other properties don’t trigger their observers, even though I’m 
implementing the +keyPathsForValuesAffecting, which I believe should 
cause the additional triggering. Have I understood that right?

Here’s the kind of code I have:


@property (retain) id thingy;
@property (retain) NSDicitonary* dictionaryOfThings;

@implementation

- (void)   setThingy:(is thing
{
NSMutableDictionary* temp = [self.dictionaryOfThings mutableCopy];
[temp setObject:thing forKey:kThingKey];
self.dictionaryOfThings = temp;
}

- (id) thingy
{
return [self.dictionaryOfThings objectForKey:kThingKey];
}


+ (NSSet*)  keyPathsForValuesAffectingThingy
{
return [NSSet setWithObject:@“dictionaryOfThings”];
}


So what I want (expect?) is that is code sets -dictionaryOfThings directly, an 
observer of ‘thingy’ will be triggered. Is that right?


—Graham



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Roland King]

> 
> Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing 
> in their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with 
> an older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with 
> the same problem. I assume it’s doable.
> ___

I think it’s do-able - both Parallels and VMWare seem to comprehend the whole 
bootstrapping process of getting something onto nothing. It’ll only take you a 
short time to figure it out, I’d just go for it. 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Shane Stanley]

On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.

Does this help?




-- 
Shane Stanley 



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Re: Assigning an element of a swift array to a userdata parameter triggers didSet

[Jens Alfke]

I think the cause is “&(myArray[0])”. In Swift it isn't possible to get a 
pointer to an array item — these aren’t C arrays, their internal representation 
is opaque! So what I think happens is that it copies myArray[0] into a 
temporary and creates an UnsafeMutablePointer to that. Then, after the call, it 
assumes that the call might have mutated that temporary, so it stores it back 
into myArray.

Then, mutating myArray is logically equivalent to copying it, modifying the 
copy, and storing the copy back into the property. (Apparently it’s often 
optimized, fortunately, but those are the semantics.) Which means that your 
‘didSet’ handler gets called.

—Jens
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Re: a question concerning how to fire a message at the beginning of my application

[Alex Hall]

> On Nov 17, 2015, at 19:11, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 15:59 , Scott Berry  wrote:
>> 
>> I was wondering would it be wiser for me to put a notification or an art.  
> 
> You mean “alert"?
> 
>> This must be presented because otherwise this program could be dangerous 
>> without the message.
> 
> If it’s dangerous, you presumably would want the user to respond before 
> proceeding. In that case, a modal alert with 2 buttons sounds like the right 
> approach, and ‘applicationDidFinishLaunching’ (in the app delegate) is the 
> easiest place to do it.

This page gives a nice example of what you might want to use:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24022479/how-would-i-create-a-uialertview-in-swift

You'll also want to look at the UIAlertController class reference or tutorials. 
If you want to do something when the user clears the alert, add a handler as 
the example states. Don't forget to store some kind of flag somewhere to 
suppress the alert on subsequent launches, unless you want this to appear each 
and every time the app opens.

You could also do this without an alert, by making your storyboard's entry 
point a view that segues to the rest of your app, but I believe an alert can 
offer different styles that have more visual impact? I could be wrong there.
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--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com


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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 12:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> No. It’s no listed as a disk I can start up from.
> 
> 


OK, that’s kind of weird, because I just made a boot disk on a USB stick by 
simply copying the installer onto it, and it shows as a bootable drive. 
Admittedly that’s with a newer installer than 10.8.5, but AFAIK this should 
work as long as you have the full installer, not the combo update. There has to 
be a way to get a blank machine with no OS installed at all up and running.

The Startup Disk preference pane did seem to take a few seconds to recognise 
the drive as bootable.

N.B. The USB boot drive even works on a Windows PC to make a “hackintosh”, so 
should work on a real Mac.

—Graham



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  wrote:
> 
> Does this help?
> 
>  >

I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer. I’d assume, though, that 
I need *two* empty disks for this — one to hold the bootable installer, and the 
other to install the OS onto. Or not. I’ll report back when I find out.

If not this, then virtualization!

Thanks to all.
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Re: Customising NSFontManager

[Roland King]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 08:26, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> 
> Anyone know what NSFontManager’s designated initializer is?
> 
> I have set the Font Manager’s factory class to my subclass of NSFontManager 
> is previously discussed, but its -init method is never called. The Font 
> Manager object is part of MainMenu.xib, which has ‘prefer coder’ unchecked. 
> In any case, NSFontManager doesn’t implement NSCoding so it does not appear 
> to expect -initWithCoder: anyway.
> 
> —Graham
> 
> 

The documentation claims it’s init()

"Your font manager class should implement init as its designated initializer.”

It also seems to indicate that having it part of MainMenu.xib is too late

"This method must be invoked before your application’s main nib file is loaded, 
such as in the application delegate’s applicationWillFinishLaunching: method."
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:02 , Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the 
> boot drive and reboot, does that work?

No. It’s no listed as a disk I can start up from.

There might be something I can do by restarting with the Option key, and using 
the recovery partition. But I suspect not.


On Nov 17, 2015, at 16:57 , Bryan Vines  wrote:
> 
> I use Parallels to do this. I keep a small collection of OS X virtual 
> machines to test against (including OS X Server 10.6.8).


Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing in 
their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with an 
older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with the 
same problem. I assume it’s doable.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Graham Cox]

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 12:30 PM, Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> N.B. The USB boot drive even works on a Windows PC to make a “hackintosh”, so 
> should work on a real Mac.
> 



AHHH!!! I just remembered something. I needed a utility called ‘UniBeast’ to 
make the USB stick originally. It probably does some magic to make the drive 
bootable. It’s a free download:

http://www.unibeast.com


—Graham



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Sandor Szatmari]

Can you make a bootable USB drive from the installer?  Boot of the USB and 
install from there.

Sandor

On Nov 17, 2015, at 7:50 PM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:

> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:52 , Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  > wrote:
>> 
>> Does this help?
>> 
>> > >
> 
> I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer.

Actually, I tried it now, and guess what … it doesn’t work pre-Mavericks.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 17, 2015, at 7:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I was thinking that Parallels or VMWare was my next option, but nothing 
> in their product information says anything definitive about getting a VM with 
> an older OS version on it. If I have to *install* the OS, then I’m stuck with 
> the same problem. I assume it’s doable.

I can personally vouch for Mountain Lion running well in VMWare. Where it gets 
hard is when you are running Snow Leopard or earlier, and not for any 
technological reason—those versions are artificially blocked from running in a 
virtual machine unless you are running the Server version, due to certain terms 
in the EULA. Apple seems to have revised the license for Lion and later, 
though, and those versions generally have no problems running in VMWare (I 
haven’t tried it in Parallels).

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:03 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> I can personally vouch for Mountain Lion running well in VMWare. Where it 
> gets hard is when you are running Snow Leopard or earlier, and not for any 
> technological reason—those versions are artificially blocked from running in 
> a virtual machine unless you are running the Server version, due to certain 
> terms in the EULA. Apple seems to have revised the license for Lion and 
> later, though, and those versions generally have no problems running in 
> VMWare (I haven’t tried it in Parallels).

I ended up going with VMWare (because Lee Ann, not because I have anything 
against Parallels). It was straightforward, except that I don’t see that the 
mechanism for creating an OS X VM is *discoverable* in the app. The answer was 
to drag the installer app into the setup wizard window, but I don’t know how I 
would know that without searching the web for instructions.

The next thing I’m wondering is if there’s a way to debug the app running in 
the 10.8 VM from Xcode 7.1.1. (This is starting to be more of an Xcode 
question, sorry.) I’m not sure I need this yet, but I can’t remember having 
read if it’s supposed to be possible.
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Quincey Morris 
 wrote:
> 
> I ended up going with VMWare (because Lee Ann, not because I have anything 
> against Parallels).

Ah, I didn’t realize one of our contributors here worked at VMWare. Well, all 
the more reason to use it. I’ve been for years, and have never seen a reason to 
switch.

> It was straightforward, except that I don’t see that the mechanism for 
> creating an OS X VM is *discoverable* in the app. The answer was to drag the 
> installer app into the setup wizard window, but I don’t know how I would know 
> that without searching the web for instructions.

I didn’t even know that dragging the installer app there worked. I think what I 
did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or image”, and choose the 
InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion installer (I think it was 
still bootable back then; if not, I probably made a bootable USB stick and 
booted it from that).

> The next thing I’m wondering is if there’s a way to debug the app running in 
> the 10.8 VM from Xcode 7.1.1. (This is starting to be more of an Xcode 
> question, sorry.) I’m not sure I need this yet, but I can’t remember having 
> read if it’s supposed to be possible.

Does Xcode 7 still support debugserver? I can’t remember if that’s been dropped 
or not. If it hasn’t, you should probably be able to use that, since the 
virtual machine has access to the network.

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:47 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> I think what I did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or 
> image”, and choose the InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion 
> installer (I think it was still bootable back then

At one point I got there, or somewhere similar that put up a Choose dialog, but 
because the installer is a package, I couldn't navigate into it to get to the 
disk image. (Maybe there’s a magic modifier combination that makes that 
possible.)

It would have been clearer, I think, if the initial wizard window showed an 
entry for choosing an OS X installer, along with the handful of other things 
that are in its main list.

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Maxthon Chan]

Quincey:

Two points:

1) Your machine should be no newer than OS X 10.8.5 or driver issue will happen.
2) You need to create an install media (wiping it in the process) and perform 
an fresh install (wiping the partition in the process).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 08:50, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
> 
> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t run 
> under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to run 
> it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer won’t 
> run either.)
> 
> What’s the right way to go about this?
> 
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Maxthon Chan]

For me the installation media is always an SD card in the built-in card reader 
(which is usually faster than USB if the card itself is fast enough)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 09:52, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:42 , Shane Stanley  wrote:
>> 
>> Does this help?
>> 
>> > >
> 
> I’ll try it a bit later, but it seems to be an answer. I’d assume, though, 
> that I need *two* empty disks for this — one to hold the bootable installer, 
> and the other to install the OS onto. Or not. I’ll report back when I find 
> out.
> 
> If not this, then virtualization!
> 
> Thanks to all.
> ___
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Alex Zavatone]

VM Ware?

I'm running 10.6.8 on this Mac, 10.5.whatever on another and keep a few 
external HDs around and spare Macs and install images for this purpose.



On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Graham Cox wrote:

> Yeah, Apple really make it hard to set up older OS installs for dev testing.
> 
> If you copy the old installer to the hard disk partition and set it as the 
> boot drive and reboot, does that work? The installers are (I believe) 
> designed to run with no OS at all.
> 
> —Graham
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 11:50 AM, Quincey Morris 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I want to install 10.8.5 somewhere, to debug an app compatibility issue on 
>> that OS, but I can’t seem to figure out how.
>> 
>> I have an empty hard disk I can use, but there’s nothing installed on it. 
>> I’ve got the Mountain Lion installer app from the App Store, but it won’t 
>> run under El Capitan. (It’s “too old” to run.) So, without an older OS X to 
>> run it on, I can’t get an older OS to run it on. (The Yosemite installer 
>> won’t run either.)
>> 
>> What’s the right way to go about this?
>> 
>> ___
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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 23:13 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit.

No, that wasn’t it. When I read your post, I fell over laughing at ‘Type 
⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”’, because the chances of my 
remembering that are about zero.

(If you want to insult me, you’re going to have to try harder than that.)

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 1:22 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 23:13 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit.
> 
> No, that wasn’t it. When I read your post, I fell over laughing at ‘Type 
> ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”’, because the chances of my 
> remembering that are about zero.
> 
> (If you want to insult me, you’re going to have to try harder than that.)

Hehe, okay, just wanted to make sure. I wasn’t quite sure how to read that, and 
didn’t want to offend.

The ⌘-Shift-G thing has been useful to me more than enough times to justify the 
headspace. If it helps, it comes from the shortcut for the Finder’s “Go to 
Folder…” menu item. There’s also the alternative of just hitting the ‘/‘ key, 
which also brings up the sheet, but it also adds a slash into the text field 
that you’ll have to delete before typing in the relative path.

An alternative way to do it is to right-click on the app in the Finder and 
choose “Show Package Contents”, after which you can drag the Contents folder 
into the Open dialog box and it will autonavigate there.

Charles

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Re: KVO question

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 17:18 , Graham Cox  wrote:
> 
> Mostly this is working, but when code directly sets the dictionary property, 
> the other properties don’t trigger their observers, even though I’m 
> implementing the +keyPathsForValuesAffecting, which I believe 
> should cause the additional triggering. Have I understood that right?

It’s not clear. I can’t think of a compelling reason why the other observers 
shouldn’t trigger, but you are doing something a bit weird.

I wonder, also, if you’re always setting the ‘dictionaryOfThings’ property 
KVO-compliantly? In particular, is the instance variable perhaps changed 
initially from nil to an empty dictionary after there are already observers on 
the dictionary path?

As a matter of principle, I always think using a dictionary as an API to 
properties is a terrible idea. You’re much better off defining an object that 
actually has the properties, even if there are a lot of them. That would solve 
your difficulty here, since you wouldn’t need two ways of getting to the 
properties. Also, you’d avoid the danger inherent in exposing your mutable 
backing store (the NSMutableDictionary) to the outside world, always a 
prescription for trouble.

FWIW.


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Radar down?

[Rick Mann]

It loads partially, then says "Unable to communicate with enclosure service" or 
something like that.


-- 
Rick Mann
rm...@latencyzero.com



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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:01 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 21:47 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> I think what I did was go to File -> New, choose “Install from disc or 
>> image”, and choose the InstallESD.dmg file that’s inside the Mountain Lion 
>> installer (I think it was still bootable back then
> 
> At one point I got there, or somewhere similar that put up a Choose dialog, 
> but because the installer is a package, I couldn't navigate into it to get to 
> the disk image. (Maybe there’s a magic modifier combination that makes that 
> possible.)

There sure is! Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the 
quotes, into the resulting sheet.

> It would have been clearer, I think, if the initial wizard window showed an 
> entry for choosing an OS X installer, along with the handful of other things 
> that are in its main list.

They probably don’t want to be too overt about it. Apple’s not going all 
thermonuclear anymore on VM software allowing their OS anymore, but ya know, 
don’t want to jinx it.

Charles

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Quincey Morris]

On Nov 17, 2015, at 22:11 , Charles Srstka  wrote:
> 
> Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the quotes, into the 
> resulting sheet.

I see. It’s nice to know that developers can do standup too. ;)

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Re: Installing older OS X

[Charles Srstka]

> On Nov 18, 2015, at 12:19 AM, Quincey Morris 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Nov 17, 2015, at 22:11 , Charles Srstka  > wrote:
>> 
>> Type ⌘-Shift-G, then “NameOfApp.app/Contents”, without the quotes, into the 
>> resulting sheet.
> 
> I see. It’s nice to know that developers can do standup too. ;)

Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to insult with the “without the quotes” bit. I’m just 
extremely used to typing that whenever I describe typing anything that I put 
quotes around. Years of supporting end users (not to mention family members) 
will do that to you. ;-)

Charles
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