Re: [CODE4LIB] Hours on Library Websites?

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Hi all,

Our hours page has some history! We originally used Andrew Darby's code using 
Google Calendar. Then Google Calendar went belly up and a former colleague 
rewrote the code as https://github.com/LincolnUniLTL/calibr

This required regularly uploading a file with new hours, and our hours vary 
according to time of year, day of week, and possibly phase of moon so I kept 
making mistakes and having to fix them. Also separately we have to keep the 
hours correct in Alma anyway, and I was already using the Alma API to pull out 
other things, so I mashed up various bits of code and now it pulls from there 
instead. 

But it is quite a messy hybrid of calibr plus our  
https://github.com/LincolnUniLTL/LTLstats (library dashboard) code to create 
the whole (bilingual) hours module at https://library2.lincoln.ac.nz/hours/ and 
also custom widgets on our (Wordpress-based) website https://ltl.lincoln.ac.nz/ 
which use cURL to GET a couple of mini-pages we've created in php on our own 
server, for hours of the day (for the home page) and hours of the week (for our 
About LTL tab).

So it'd be a mess to share - I mean I'd be happy to, but I can't imagine anyone 
willingly wanting to implement it from scratch. Instead for people using Alma 
I'd recommend something like 
https://developers.exlibrisgroup.com/blog/Alma-Hours-API-Widget 

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Matt 
Sherman
Sent: Friday, 8 July 2016 2:34 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Hours on Library Websites?

Hi all,

We are working on a website migration/redesign into WordPress and I am trying 
to figure out an automated solution for posting and keeping up to date the 
hours on the home page.  I am wondering, how do other institutions manage this? 
 Are there any good tools I should be looking into?  Any insights or 
suggestions are appreciated.

Matt Sherman


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Chat bot

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Hi Jeffrey,

I started looking into this a couple of years ago (using LibraryH3lp's API 
even) and then the project got pushed to the backburner due to too many other 
priorities.

I was using Program O for the chatbot itself - 
https://github.com/Program-O/Program-O  except I fixed a bug and now would have 
to dig to remind myself what that was. Maybe they've fixed it themselves since 
then though

And then I built a 'bridge' between the two in PHP. I can email you that code 
separately. No guarantees, etc etc especially since I haven't looked at it in 
two years, but it did by and large work at the time...


Kā mihi maioha,
 
Deborah Fitchett
Senior Advisor, Digital Access
Library, Teaching and Learning
 
p +64 3 423 0358
e deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz | w ltl.lincoln.ac.nz
 
Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university






-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
Sabol
Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2016 8:04 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Chat bot

Greetings,

Has anybody created a chat bot to answer basic questions (what are the hours, 
how many books can I check out) for the Library's chat reference service?  If 
so would you be willing to share your code?  I have just started to explore 
this so any direction or resources would be of help.  My Library is using 
LibraryH3lp, which has a REST api and some limited resources.

Thank you,

​-​
Jeffrey


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Re: [CODE4LIB] onboarding developers coming from industry

[Fitchett, Deborah]

I actually feel that the tech side of library things may be less bewildering to 
a non-tech person than the *culture*. Things like:

* the way any progress happens in University Time
* the way we're dependent on vendors in ways that mean that yes, often our 
systems SUCK but we just have to play the hand we're dealt
* the sometimes-fraught relationship between Library IT and University IT
* the customer-focus of the library - including colleagues as customers
* and relatedly, the collaborative nature of so much library work
* depending on where they've come from and how well you're staffed, the very 
"bitsy" nature of Library IT, not just in having to know about lots of things 
but having to jump from one thing to another at a moment's notice to 
troubleshoot instead of being able to get stuck into a project

If someone has no experience in libraries and gets thrust into this culture 
from something quite different, then no matter how quickly they pick up the 
tech they risk feeling very adrift in terms of how Things Are Done Around Here 
and jangling with people because each party is trying to interact in very 
different ways.

Or they may be a perfect fit culturally and that's why they've made the move! 
But it's worth keeping a watch to be sure there aren't any "culture shock" 
incidents, or if there are to deal with them before they cause too much stress.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jenn 
Riley
Sent: Saturday, 27 February 2016 9:42 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] onboarding developers coming from industry

Dear Code4Libbers,

We have a new developer starting soon that’s coming from industry with no 
experience in libraries. We're interested in hearing about any strategies or 
training methods you’ve found successful in introducing developers from other 
areas to the quirkiness of library tech – things like MARC, proxy servers, 
Z39.50, catalogue knowledgebases, e-resources access, etc. Do you have any 
successes or advice to share?

For those of you in academic libraries, we also are interested in strategies 
for getting someone new oriented to the academic environment.

Thanks so much!

Jenn

---
Jenn Riley
Associate Dean, Digital Initiatives | Vice Doyenne, Initiatives numériques

McGill University Library | Bibliothèque Université McGill
3459 McTavish Street | 3459, rue McTavish Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 0C9 | 
Montréal (QC) Canada  H3A 0C9

(514) 398-3642
jenn.ri...@mcgill.ca


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[CODE4LIB] Online statistics gathering tool

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a web-based tool that would allow users to easily enter 
statistics (eg desk/consultations stats) as the day progresses; and which then 
makes the stored stats available in a variety of ways. Reports, pretty graphs, 
downloadable csvs; the one I personally really care about would be a REST API.

My ideal tool would also:

  *   be able to auto-populate with data from other systems, eg pull in user 
data from Alma's API (or from a PeopleSoft export) so you could track what 
consultations/workshops users attend. (We currently do this in a convoluted 
Access database but I don't have my beloved REST API for that.)
  *   you'd create your own modules eg one for desk stats, one for 
consultations, one for head-counts, ... each one providing a different form for 
your staff to (quickly and easily) enter details.
  *   be free open source software based on PHP/SQL and super-easy to install 
on our own servers (ie the fewer extra libraries that need installing the 
better. I’m thinking: download, unzip, edit the config file, done. :-)  )

I'm half-tempted to code one myself but that'd be a Project. But our current 
stats gathering is... scattered.

Does anyone know of anything in this area?

Nāku noa, nā

Deborah Fitchett
Senior Advisor, Digital Access
Library, Teaching and Learning

p +64 3 423 0358
e deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz | w 
library.lincoln.ac.nz

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Online statistics gathering tool

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Thank you, I'll have a look and poke at it!

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Andreas 
Orphanides
Sent: Monday, 16 November 2015 11:05 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Online statistics gathering tool

SUMA is about 80% of the way to what you describe. I don't know if it 
integrates with external data systems, but you can set up your own initiatives, 
it's web based, it's open source, and I'm pretty sure it's built on some PHP 
platform or another. If I recall there are also some clever one-click type of 
deployment packages available.

http://cazzerson.github.io/Suma/

Full disclosure: Jason Casden works upstairs from me and is The Man.


On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Fitchett, Deborah < 
deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a web-based tool that would allow users to easily 
> enter statistics (eg desk/consultations stats) as the day progresses; 
> and which then makes the stored stats available in a variety of ways. 
> Reports, pretty graphs, downloadable csvs; the one I personally really 
> care about would be a REST API.
>
> My ideal tool would also:
>
>   *   be able to auto-populate with data from other systems, eg pull in
> user data from Alma's API (or from a PeopleSoft export) so you could 
> track what consultations/workshops users attend. (We currently do this 
> in a convoluted Access database but I don't have my beloved REST API for 
> that.)
>   *   you'd create your own modules eg one for desk stats, one for
> consultations, one for head-counts, ... each one providing a different 
> form for your staff to (quickly and easily) enter details.
>   *   be free open source software based on PHP/SQL and super-easy to
> install on our own servers (ie the fewer extra libraries that need 
> installing the better. I’m thinking: download, unzip, edit the config 
> file, done. :-)  )
>
> I'm half-tempted to code one myself but that'd be a Project. But our 
> current stats gathering is... scattered.
>
> Does anyone know of anything in this area?
>
> Nāku noa, nā
>
> Deborah Fitchett
> Senior Advisor, Digital Access
> Library, Teaching and Learning
>
> p +64 3 423 0358
> e 
> deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz<mailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz> 
> | w library.lincoln.ac.nz<http://library.lincoln.ac.nz/>
>
> Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki New Zealand's specialist 
> land-based university
>
>
> 
> P Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> "The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be 
> confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, 
> distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If 
> you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by 
> return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with 
> all attachments from your system."
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Desiring Advice for Converting OCR Text into Metadata and/or a Database

[Fitchett, Deborah]

For turning a bibliography into RIS format, I wrote a tool based on a whole 
pile of regex commands bundled into sed files wrapped in an AppleScript app:

Webpage: http://deborahfitchett.com/toys/ref2ris/ 
Code4Lib article: http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/6286

Let me know if you've got questions about using/adapting it. Both of those 
links also list other tools I found trying to do similar things.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric 
Lease Morgan
Sent: Friday, 19 June 2015 5:04 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Desiring Advice for Converting OCR Text into Metadata 
and/or a Database

On Jun 18, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Matt Sherman matt.r.sher...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am working with colleague on a side project which involves some 
 scanned bibliographies and making them more web 
 searchable/sortable/browse-able.
 While I am quite familiar with the metadata and organization aspects 
 we need, but I am at a bit of a loss on how to automate the process of 
 putting the bibliography in a more structured format so that we can 
 avoid going through hundreds of pages by hand.  I am pretty sure 
 regular expressions are needed, but I have not had an instance where I 
 need to automate extracting data from one file type (PDF OCR or text 
 extracted to Word doc) and place it into another (either a database or 
 an XML file) with some enrichment.  I would appreciate any suggestions 
 for approaches or tools to look into.  Thanks for any help/thoughts people 
 can give.


If I understand your question correctly, then you have two problems to address: 
1) converting PDF, Word, etc. files into plain text, and 2) marking up the 
result (which is a bibliography) into structure data. Correct?

If so, then if your PDF documents have already been OCRed, or if you have other 
files, then you can probably feed them to TIKA to quickly and easily extract 
the underlying plain text. [1] I wrote a brain-dead shell script to run TIKA in 
server mode and then convert Word (.docx) files. [2]

When it comes to marking up the result into structured data, well, good luck. I 
think such an application is something Library Land sought for a long time. 
“Can you say Holy Grail?

[1] Tika - https://tika.apache.org
[2] brain-dead script - 
https://gist.github.com/ericleasemorgan/c4e34ffad96c0221f1ff

—
Eric


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Structured help platform recommendations?

[Fitchett, Deborah]

LibraryH3lp has another hosted QA system that comes free with their virtual 
reference system (or vice versa, I suppose). They use it for their own 
knowledge base at http://ask.libraryh3lp.com/ 

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason 
Stirnaman
Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2015 4:42 p.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Structured help platform recommendations?

 By that I mean a tool by which a broad range of staff can create,
edit, inter-link, classify and maintain a set of structured documentation for 
fixing problems and resolving issues.

That sounds just like a wiki to me. Many wiki tools provide that, it just may 
not be obvious.

By structured, do you mean you want structure enforced more as fields?

Redmine can track issues and store documentation. You can add any type of 
custom field to your issue schema. Documentation, though, is generally authored 
as a wiki. You can easily reference other objects. It definitely meets your 
reporting and authentication requirements. CAS authentication was really easy 
to setup.
http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Features

And then there are hosted QA systems like http://gimlet.us/ (from some of our 
C4L friends) and http://springshare.com/libanswers/systems.html.

I agree about Drupal. It seems like that type of thing would be fairly easy to 
accomplish.  There's the Books module, 
https://www.drupal.org/documentation/modules/book, for structured content. Not 
sure how to wire that up with issue/ticket-tracking though.

Jason

Jason Stirnaman, MLS
Application Development, Library and Information Services, IR University of 
Kansas Medical Center jstirna...@kumc.edu
913-588-7319

On Jan 14, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Stuart A. Yeates syea...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm looking for recommendations for a structured help platform.

 By that I mean a tool by which a broad range of staff can create, 
 edit, inter-link, classify and maintain a set of structured 
 documentation for fixing problems and resolving issues.

 Open source, closed source and hosted solutions considered, but the 
 platform must enforce structure (i.e. not a wiki); do LDAP / SAML / 
 etc; decent reporting of high-use docs; and be easy to use for 
 literate non-techies.

 It seems like there should be a drupal module or something for this, 
 but for the life of me I can't see it (but then there are a confusing 
 array).

 Pointers to accounts of other people doing similar things also readily 
 accepted.

 cheers
 stuart
 --
 ...let us be heard from red core to black sky


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Hours Fail

[Fitchett, Deborah]

We'd been using Andrew Darby's method and ran into this problem earlier this 
year. A (now ex-)colleague coded Calibr 
(https://github.com/LincolnUniLTL/calibr ) when we ran into this problem, and 
we've been running it since. Does depend on tidy csv though.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Heller, 
Margaret
Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2014 11:51 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Hours Fail

Wish I had checked the list this morning, as I just discovered we had the same 
problem. We have been using Andrew Darby's method outlined here: 
http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/46.

Is there by any chance someone using this method who happened to know the V2 
API was being deprecated who already updated their app to V3?

If not anyone who wants to work on getting this to work tomorrow?

Margaret Heller
Digital Services Librarian
Loyola University Chicago
773-508-2686

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary E. 
Hanlin
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:19 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Library Hours Fail

Hi All,

I know this has been covered a bit here, but I have a rather exigent conundrum, 
and I'm hoping to figure out the best/easiest solution.  Yesterday, the script 
to hour library hours (on our front page) which pulls from Google calendar 
stopped working (Error at line undefined in undefined[!] - the exclamation 
point is mine; it seemed like it needed one.)

Basically, the code came from a site that walked one through how to call daily 
hours (javascript) using Google's V2 API, but the V2 is fully deprecated (as I 
abruptly discovered), and I need to figure out another solution.  (I haven't 
been able to find similar documentation for V3's API.)

Some constraints: 1. Our IT will not support php.We are an .NET shop with 
IIS servers.  2. We may not have the dough to pay for something like LibCal 
which seems to me the easiest solution.  3.  I'm semi-new to this 
Internets/webmaster thing, and really only know front-end coding, so a 
solution involving something like .NET, Python, etc. would have to have, How 
to make a peanut butter sandwich, kind of documentation.

Right now, I've just manually coded our hours, which is fine until Saturday 
when our hours change, and I'm not here (hopefully).  I will be super grateful 
for insight or knowledge.

Mary.

Mary Hanlin
Electronic Resources and Web Librarian
J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College
Phone:804.523.5323
Email: mhan...@reynolds.edu


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Wireless barcode scanners

[Fitchett, Deborah]

We recently investigated this (for purposes of working with Alma, a web-based 
LMS(*)) and ended up deciding on a Surface 2 tablet combined with a 
Socketmobile CX2864-1336 
(http://www.socketmobile.com/pdf/data-collection/chs_deployment-guide.pdf). The 
Socketmobile is also compatible with iOS.

They've only just arrived and our ITS are still imaging the tablets so I can't 
vouch for how well they work in practice but they look cute and it only took 
two of us, paying close attention to the manual, to work out how to attach them 
to their lanyards. :-)

Deborah

(*) Yes I know Ex Libris says Alma isn't an LMS but it is a system that manages 
library material so that's what I call it anyway.


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward 
M. Corrado
Sent: Tuesday, 4 November 2014 9:59 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Wireless barcode scanners

This is slightly off-topic but I can't think of a better place to ask.
I have been asked to investigate wireless barcode scanners, and preferably ones 
that can work with an iPad (or be connected to an iPad), for inventory 
purposes. I have found a few used in the retail environment but I was wondering 
of anyone has bought any recently that they like. Even if you have a wireless 
barcode scanner that isn't designed to work with an iPad that you recommend, 
I'd like to hear about it. I know this is vaugue, but that is intentional, I am 
trying to cast a wide net in hopes to hear what others have done that might be 
of interest since we are just starting to look into this.

Thanks,
Edward


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Re: [CODE4LIB] REST vs ODBC

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Hi all,

Apologies, have got distracted from mailing lists and missed these replies last 
week...

The existing app is called Datacard and I know very little about it - installed 
before my time by another department, etc. But basically it prints our library 
cards, so it needs the appropriate user data (name, barcode, other ID details). 
Previously it pulled these from PeopleSoft over ODBC, but with our migration 
things are different and decisions were made so now for a class of users the 
data is only available in Alma.

A nightly extract of data to a Koha (or other) install wouldn't work because 
we're needing the data at the point of sign-up to the library so the card can 
be printed.

It sounds very much like it comes down to seeing if there's an upgrade to 
Datacard we can write a business case for and in the meantime continue to type 
or copy/paste the data by hand at point of need. Not the ideal situation but at 
least it's a relatively small class of users affected.

Thanks,

Deborah 


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cary 
Gordon
Sent: Wednesday, 24 September 2014 3:59 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] REST vs ODBC

Could you reveal anything about what the existing application (EA) is and what 
it does?

We don't know what the EA was connected to, so there can't know if Koha would 
work as middleware. It might be simpler to write your own middleware in Symfony 
(I have grown fond of Guzzle), or some other framework and just pull the data 
into a database that has the same structure as your old system.

Thanks,

Cary

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Fitchett, Deborah  
deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz wrote:

 Morning, all,

 We have a small dilemma:


 1.   Our brand new Alma system provides access to a bunch of data via
 RESTful API. It’s on The Cloud so we’re not going to be getting direct 
 access to the database anytime soon.


 2.   We have an existing application that would be more efficient if
 it could get that data, but which only uses ODBC. (I’m told other 
 available drivers are:
 - Microsoft Jet 4.0 OLE
 - Microsoft Office
 - Microsoft OLE DB Provider
 - Microsoft Datashape
 - OLE DB Provider
 - SQL Server Native Client 10.0)

 Does anyone know if there’s any middleware out there that could make 
 these two things talk to each other, or do we give this up as a “Would 
 have been nice, but shrug”?

 Nāku noa, nā

 Deborah Fitchett
 Senior Advisor, Digital Access
 Library, Teaching and Learning

 p +64 3 423 0358
 e 
 deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nzmailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz 
 | w library.lincoln.ac.nzhttp://library.lincoln.ac.nz/

 Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki New Zealand's specialist 
 land-based university


 
 P Please consider the environment before you print this email.
 The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be 
 confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, 
 distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If 
 you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by 
 return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with 
 all attachments from your system.




--
Cary Gordon
The Cherry Hill Company
http://chillco.com

[CODE4LIB] REST vs ODBC

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Morning, all,

We have a small dilemma:


1.   Our brand new Alma system provides access to a bunch of data via 
RESTful API. It’s on The Cloud so we’re not going to be getting direct access 
to the database anytime soon.


2.   We have an existing application that would be more efficient if it 
could get that data, but which only uses ODBC. (I’m told other available 
drivers are:
- Microsoft Jet 4.0 OLE
- Microsoft Office
- Microsoft OLE DB Provider
- Microsoft Datashape
- OLE DB Provider
- SQL Server Native Client 10.0)

Does anyone know if there’s any middleware out there that could make these two 
things talk to each other, or do we give this up as a “Would have been nice, 
but shrug”?

Nāku noa, nā

Deborah Fitchett
Senior Advisor, Digital Access
Library, Teaching and Learning

p +64 3 423 0358
e deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nzmailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz | w 
library.lincoln.ac.nzhttp://library.lincoln.ac.nz/

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Anyone have a list of exposed z39.50 endpoints?

[Fitchett, Deborah]

There's a bunch of New Zealand ones at 
http://lianzaitsig.pbworks.com/w/page/58013907/Z39%2050%20Connection%20Information

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jay 
Gattuso
Sent: Friday, 29 August 2014 10:24 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Anyone have a list of exposed z39.50 endpoints?

We have a colleague looking into giving our Public Lending Rights system some 
TLC. This is the process we use to survey any library holdings and count any 
holdings by New Zealand authors/producers.

I was asked if I knew of any lists of exposed z39.50 endpoints that we could 
interrogate as part of our holdings survey.  I thought this might be something 
some of you have / could comment on.

We're interested in any library, public or private, and will happily take any 
suggests on or off list, especially if you know of any endpoints that are 
exposed but not specifically publicised.

Thanks in advance

Jay Gattuso | Digital Preservation Analyst | Preservation, Research and 
Consultancy National Library of New Zealand | Te Puna Mātauranga o Aotearoa PO 
Box 1467 Wellington 6140 New Zealand | +64 (0)4 474 3064 
jay.gatt...@dia.govt.nzmailto:jay.gatt...@natlib.govt.nz


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs

[Fitchett, Deborah]

I can't help with the Python, but a test case for the script would obviously be 
You know I can't subscribe to your ghost jobs list.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan 
Kane
Sent: Friday, 9 May 2014 2:44 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs

Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to 
convert New Zealand English to International English.

Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a 
humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way.

:-)

-- Susan Kane
Boston(ish), MA


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Re: [CODE4LIB] The lie of the API

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Environment Canterbury has a click-through screen making you accept their terms 
and conditions before you get access to the API, and they use that as an 
opportunity to ask some questions about your intended use. Then once you've 
answered those you get direct access to the API as beautiful plain XML. (Okay, 
XML which possibly overuses attributes to carry data instead of tags, but I 
eventually figured out how to make my server's version of PHP happy with that.) 
It's glorious.  It made me so happy that I went back to their click-through 
screen to give them some more information about what I was doing.

When I had to try and navigate Twitter's API and authentication models, 
however... Well, I absolutely understand the need for it, but it'll be a long 
time before I ever try that again.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward 
Summers
Sent: Tuesday, 3 December 2013 6:57 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] The lie of the API

On Dec 3, 2013, at 4:18 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not going to defend API keys, but not all APIs are open or free.  
 You need to have *some* way to track usage.

A key (haha) thing that keys also provide is an opportunity to have a 
conversation with the user of your api: who are they, how could you get in 
touch with them, what are they doing with the API, what would they like to do 
with the API, what doesn't work? These questions are difficult to ask if they 
are just a IP address in your access log.

//Ed


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Re: [CODE4LIB] Citing source code in high-profile academic journals

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Probably the main reason it rarely happens is that most people aren't in the 
habit of thinking about it (yet). I do see this as slowly changing, however, as 
is the case with citing datasets; the speed will vary by discipline.

Theoretically anyone *can* cite anything already; but for the citations to be 
most useful (eg for people to then be able to play programmatically with 
reference lists) you need some agreed upon standards. Standards for citing data 
are still in active development - you could get some ideas from eg 
http://www.datacite.org/  I haven't heard anything about standards for citing 
code though I haven't really been looking.

A permanent url is pretty vital, and a DOI certainly adds a lot of cachet for 
scientists who are new to all this: it makes it *look* Official even though it 
doesn't actually guarantee permanence or credibility. You might be interested 
in https://github.com/arfon/fidgit - it's a recent proof of concept integration 
between a GitHub repo and Figshare to get a DOI for the repo.
 
Cheers,

Deborah Fitchett
Digital Access Coordinator
Library, Teaching and Learning
Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university


-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Heather 
Claxton-Douglas
Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013 12:02 p.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Citing source code in high-profile academic journals

Hello,

I need some advice about referencing source code in an academic journal.  I 
rarely see it happen and I don’t know why.

Background:
I’m building a website that connects academic researchers with software 
developers interested in helping scientists write code.  My goal is for these 
researchers to be able to reference any  new source code in the articles they 
publish -- much like a “gene accession number” or a “PDB code”.

Unfortunately, I don’t see any code repositories referenced in high profile 
journals like Science or PNAS.  I’m guessing it’s because the code in the 
repositories isn’t permanent and may be deleted anytime? Or perhaps a DOI needs 
to be assigned?

So my question to the group is:
What criteria is necessary for a code repository or database to be eligible for 
referencing in scientific academic journals?

Some ideas I have based on looking at the Protein Databank and Genbank are:
1) The entry is permanent -- we can’t delete articles once they’ve been 
published, same is true for entries in the PDB and Genbank
2) The entry gives credit to all authors and contributors
3) The entry has a DOI
4) The entry has a simple accession number - PDB is a four character code,  
Genebank number is six characters.

Is there anything I’m missing?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Heather Claxton-Douglas, PhD
www.sciencesolved.com

http://igg.me/at/ScienceSolved


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[CODE4LIB] Bookmarklet to get permalink for journal articles

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Kia ora koutou,

Some months back I posted with some questions about DOIs to help me get started 
working on a bookmarklet that lets people on a journal article webpage get a 
permalink to that article, including our proxy information so it can be 
accessed off-campus.

Thank you again to everyone who helped at the time! I said I’d post when I had 
the bookmarklet working, so…


· You can find a working copy of the bookmarklet with instructions for 
use at http://library.lincoln.ac.nz/Find/Tools/

· A genericised version of the code with instructions for 
customising/putting on your own server is at 
https://github.com/LincolnUniLTL/permalinkmaker under an MIT licence

Any feedback welcome!
Nāku noa, nā

Deborah Fitchett
Digital Access Coordinator
Library, Teaching and Learning

p +64 3 423 0358
e deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nzmailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz | w 
library.lincoln.ac.nzhttp://library.lincoln.ac.nz/

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university



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Re: [CODE4LIB] PURL normalizer script

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Kia ora Tim,

The first webform example that comes to mind as similar to what you want is at 
http://wiki.canterbury.ac.nz/display/LIBRARY/Articles+without+DOIs

As written the function convert(form) has some extra stuff around DOIs and EBL 
(.eblib.com) which you can strip out.
For normalising the PURL, I think I'd do it in three steps:
1) remove the 
http://www.university.edu.proxyrewrite.proxy.edu/auth/EZProxy.asp?url=; string 
if present
2) remove .proxyrewrite.proxy.edu if present
3) prepend 
http://www.university.edu.proxyrewrite.proxy.edu/auth/EZProxy.asp?url=;

Feel free to email me if you need more information - I'm not sure how familiar 
you are with javascript.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Tim 
Pellett
Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 1:28 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] PURL normalizer script

Hi,

Has anyone created a script to help normalize PURLS that go through the EZProxy 
rewrite, that they would be willing to share?

The script would have to be smart enough to do the following:

1. Prepend the proxy prefix url if it does not exist.
2. Remove the proxy rewrite from either the proxy prefix and/or the vendor's 
url.

For example, a sample url would be:

http://www.university.edu.proxyrewrite.proxy.edu/auth/EZProxy.asp?url=
http://search.ebscohost.com.proxyrewrite.proxy.edu/login.aspx
?direct=truedb=a9hAN=66352991site=ehost-live

In this example, the proxy prefix is already there, but the rewrite, .
proxyrewrite.proxy.edu exists in two places and would need to be removed.

I visualize a web form that the patron would copy/paste the url into the text 
box and click button and new, working url will be there for user to use for 
future use.
--

Tim Pellett
Library Support Specialist
Maine InfoNet, University of Maine
Phone: 207.581.3086
http://support.maineinfonet.org



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Re: [CODE4LIB] DOI scraping

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Ah, hadn't heard about that service! I don't think any publishers/databases are 
likely to use it on their journal article pages so I'm probably safe. But it 
does have a 'lovely' example of all the annoying punctuation a DOI can legally 
contain...

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe 
Hourcle
Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2013 2:03 p.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] DOI scraping

On May 21, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Fitchett, Deborah wrote:

 Joe and Owen--

 Thanks for the ideas!

 It's a bit of the opposite goal to LibX, in that rather than having a 
 title/DOI/whatever from some random site and wanting to get to  the full-text 
 article, I'm looking at the use case of academics who are already viewing the 
 full-text article and want a link that they can share with students.  Even 
 aside from the proxy prefix, the url in their browser may include (or consist 
 entirely of) session gunk.

 I'll try a regexp and see how far that gets me. I'm a bit trepidatious about 
 the way the DOI standard allows just about any character imaginable, but at 
 least there's the 10. prefix. Am also considering that if DOIs also appear in 
 the article's bibliography I'll need to make sure the javascript can 
 distinguish between them and the DOI for the article itself; but a lot of 
 this might be 'cross that bridge if I come to it' stuff.


Crap.  I just remembered :

http://shortdoi.org/

... I don't know if any publishers are actually using them, or if they're just 
for people to use on twitter  other social media.

The real problem with them is that they don't have the '10.' string in them.

You can probably get away with just tracking the resolving form of them:

http://doi[.]org/(\w+)

And ignore the

10/(\w+)

form.

-Joe



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Re: [CODE4LIB] DOI scraping

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Joe and Owen--

Thanks for the ideas!

It's a bit of the opposite goal to LibX, in that rather than having a 
title/DOI/whatever from some random site and wanting to get to  the full-text 
article, I'm looking at the use case of academics who are already viewing the 
full-text article and want a link that they can share with students.  Even 
aside from the proxy prefix, the url in their browser may include (or consist 
entirely of) session gunk.

I'll try a regexp and see how far that gets me. I'm a bit trepidatious about 
the way the DOI standard allows just about any character imaginable, but at 
least there's the 10. prefix. Am also considering that if DOIs also appear in 
the article's bibliography I'll need to make sure the javascript can 
distinguish between them and the DOI for the article itself; but a lot of this 
might be 'cross that bridge if I come to it' stuff.

(As may be jQuery... :-) )

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Owen 
Stephens
Sent: Friday, 17 May 2013 9:01 p.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] DOI scraping

I'd say yes to the investment in jQuery generally - not too difficult to get 
the basics if you already use javascript, and makes some things a lot easier

It sounds like you are trying to do something not dissimilar to LibX 
http://libx.org ? (except via bookmarklet rather than as a browser plugin).
Also looking for custom database scrapers it might be worth looking at Zotero 
translators, as they already exist for many major sources and I guess will be 
grabbing the DOI where it exists if they can 
http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/translators

Owen

Owen Stephens
Owen Stephens Consulting
Web: http://www.ostephens.com
Email: o...@ostephens.com
Telephone: 0121 288 6936

On 17 May 2013, at 05:32, Fitchett, Deborah deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz 
wrote:

 Kia ora koutou,
 
 I’m wanting to create a bookmarklet that will let people on a journal article 
 webpage just click the bookmarklet and get a permalink to that article, 
 including our proxy information so it can be accessed off-campus.
 
 Once I’ve got a DOI (or other permalink, but I’ll cross that bridge later), 
 the rest is easy. The trouble is getting the DOI. The options seem to be:
 
 1.   Require the user to locate and manually highlight the DOI on the 
 page. This is very easy to code, not so easy for the user who may not even 
 know what a DOI is let alone how to find it; and some interfaces make it hard 
 to accurately select (I’m looking at you, ScienceDirect).
 
 2.   Live in hope of universal CoiNS implementation. I might be waiting a 
 long time.
 
 3.   Work out, for each database we use, how to scrape the relevant 
 information from the page. Harder/tedious to code, but makes it easy for the 
 user.
 
 I’ve been looking around for existing code that something like #3. So far 
 I’ve found:
 
 · CiteULike’s bookmarklet (jQuery at http://www.citeulike.org/bm - 
 afaik it’s all rights reserved)
 
 · AltMetrics’ bookmarklet (jQuery at 
 http://altmetric-bookmarklet.dsci.it/assets/content.js - MIT licensed)
 
 Can anyone think of anything else I should be looking at for inspiration?
 
 Also on a more general matter: I have the general level of Javascript 
 that one gets by poking at things and doing small projects and then 
 getting distracted by other things and then coming back some months 
 later for a different small project and having to relearn it all over 
 again. I’ve long had jQuery on my “I guess I’m going to have to learn 
 this someday but, um, today I just wanna stick with what I know” list. 
 So is this the kind of thing where it’s going to be quicker to learn 
 something about jQuery before I get started, or can I just as easily 
 muddle along with my existing limited Javascript? (What really are the 
 pros and cons here?)
 
 Nāku noa, nā
 
 Deborah Fitchett
 Digital Access Coordinator
 Library, Teaching and Learning
 
 p +64 3 423 0358
 e 
 deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nzmailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz 
 | w library.lincoln.ac.nzhttp://library.lincoln.ac.nz/
 
 Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki New Zealand's specialist 
 land-based university
 
 
 
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[CODE4LIB] DOI scraping

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Kia ora koutou,

I’m wanting to create a bookmarklet that will let people on a journal article 
webpage just click the bookmarklet and get a permalink to that article, 
including our proxy information so it can be accessed off-campus.

Once I’ve got a DOI (or other permalink, but I’ll cross that bridge later), the 
rest is easy. The trouble is getting the DOI. The options seem to be:

1.   Require the user to locate and manually highlight the DOI on the page. 
This is very easy to code, not so easy for the user who may not even know what 
a DOI is let alone how to find it; and some interfaces make it hard to 
accurately select (I’m looking at you, ScienceDirect).

2.   Live in hope of universal CoiNS implementation. I might be waiting a 
long time.

3.   Work out, for each database we use, how to scrape the relevant 
information from the page. Harder/tedious to code, but makes it easy for the 
user.

I’ve been looking around for existing code that something like #3. So far I’ve 
found:

· CiteULike’s bookmarklet (jQuery at http://www.citeulike.org/bm - 
afaik it’s all rights reserved)

· AltMetrics’ bookmarklet (jQuery at 
http://altmetric-bookmarklet.dsci.it/assets/content.js - MIT licensed)

Can anyone think of anything else I should be looking at for inspiration?

Also on a more general matter: I have the general level of Javascript that one 
gets by poking at things and doing small projects and then getting distracted 
by other things and then coming back some months later for a different small 
project and having to relearn it all over again. I’ve long had jQuery on my “I 
guess I’m going to have to learn this someday but, um, today I just wanna stick 
with what I know” list. So is this the kind of thing where it’s going to be 
quicker to learn something about jQuery before I get started, or can I just as 
easily muddle along with my existing limited Javascript? (What really are the 
pros and cons here?)

Nāku noa, nā

Deborah Fitchett
Digital Access Coordinator
Library, Teaching and Learning

p +64 3 423 0358
e deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nzmailto:deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz | w 
library.lincoln.ac.nzhttp://library.lincoln.ac.nz/

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wānaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's specialist land-based university



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Answer to your question Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Thank you Becky, Karen and Gary for your answers (and excuse the delay 
replying; have been attempting to clear my head despite the heat and an achy 
ankle combining against me).

The backup buttons are a good idea, and I definitely support both Becky and 
Karen's suggestions for additions to the policy. I think it's helpful breaking 
it down into separate parts. It's especially helpful to have expectations for 
the community, since the more the community can be trusted, the more safe 
people will feel to mention when something's an issue.

Would it be useful to have something (whether as part of the CoC or just some 
discussion) for the 'offender' as well? Not so much for the person who intends 
to offend, because they're going to do that wherever they think they can; but 
for the person who didn't intend to offend (and/or doesn't think they did) or 
the person who wants to avoid offending (while still actually enjoying the 
party)? I recall some stuff on that angle from a recent discussion of sf 
conventions, and should be able to dig up links if it's of interest to anyone 
here.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Becky 
Yoose
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 1:59 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Answer to your question Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision 
Making (was Zoia)

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Fitchett, Deborah 
deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz wrote:

 So, given that we're all nice people who wouldn't intentionally harass or 
 make spurious claims of harassment against each other, nevertheless sometimes 
 someone will unintentionally say or do something that (especially given the 
 concept of microagressions that Karen and I have alluded to and Kathryn 
 named) really hurts someone else.  This is, whatever else you want to call 
 it, a problem because it decreases the feeling of community.

 So, how as a community should we respond when this happens?

 That's my question.

Different people will have different answers, but here's mine to answer your 
question:

I'm breaking this into two parts: the Incident and the Community Response

1. Incident happens. Inform the offender that he/she has affected you 
negatively. Oftentimes, as you pointed out, stuff like this is unintentional, 
and the accidental offender and offended will resolve the incident by having 
that initial discussion. I would predict that most incidents will be resolved 
here.

2. If offender insists that he/she did not offend, or if offender is actively 
harassing you, then you will need a third party to step in.
These people have either been indicated by the CoC or by the listserv as those 
who you should go to for help.

If you are at a conference, find the conference organizer or staff person. For 
#c4l13, that would be Francis. If you can't find Francis, there will be other 
conference staff that would be available to help if the situation calls for 
immediate action.

If you are in the #code4lib IRC, the zoia command to list people designated as 
channel helpers is @helpers. I'd assume that there is at least one helper in 
the channel at most times.

For the listserv, you have a free-for-all for public messages; however, this 
listserv does have a maintainer, Eric Lease Morgan.


3. Wider community response to Incident:

If the incident doesn't past the first step (discussion reveals offense was 
unintentional, apologies said, public note or community is informed of 
resolution), then there's not much the community can do at this point since the 
incident was resolved without outside intervention.

If incident results in corrective action, the community should support the 
decision made by the Help in Step 2 if they choose corrective action, like 
ending a talk early or banning from the listserv, as well as support those 
harmed by the incident, either publicly or privately (whatever individuals are 
comfortable with).

If the Help in Step 2 run into issues implementing the CoC, then the Help 
should come to the community with these issues and the community should revise 
the CoC as they see fit.


So that's my answer. In Real Life people will have opinions about how the CoC 
is enforced. People will argue that a particular decision was unfair, and 
others will say that it didn't go far enough. We really can't stop people 
having opinions, but what we could do here is have constructive discussions 
that lead to something tangible (affirmation of decision, change in CoC, modify 
decision, etc,), instead of reproducing the comments section of a story on a 
news site.

I can add this as a new issue to the CoC Github, as supporting documentation to 
the code later today.

Thanks,
Becky



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Firstly, there seems to be an assumption (explicit by some, implicit by others) 
that Code4Lib members wouldn't intentionally harass people. This is a perfectly 
reasonable assumption and I'm more than happy to go along with it.



I just want there to be a reciprocal assumption that Code4Lib members wouldn't 
intentionally make spurious claims of having been harassed. That's fair, right? 
We're all nice people.



So, given that we're all nice people who wouldn't intentionally harass or make 
spurious claims of harassment against each other, nevertheless sometimes 
someone will unintentionally say or do something that (especially given the 
concept of microagressions that Karen and I have alluded to and Kathryn named) 
really hurts someone else.  This is, whatever else you want to call it, a 
problem because it decreases the feeling of community.



So, how as a community should we respond when this happens?



That's my question. It's the question I've been asking over and over, and every 
time I’ve asked it people have derailed the conversation to their own fears of 
being labelled *ist. This is an absolute straw argument. One thing the code of 
conduct doesn’t include as a sanction is for admin/helpers to stick a “Kick me, 
I’m a *ist” label on offenders’ backs.



Can we stop worrying about being labelled *ist and start worrying about how 
we're going to concretely demonstrate that we're not *ist?



Deborah

(Excuse the html format and bolding. But if one more person replies to my email 
without replying to my actual question I might resort to all-caps. And possibly 
quote liberally from 
https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/resources/mirror-derailing-for-dummies/.)



-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Gary 
McGath
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 7:35 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)



Establishing any principle has consequences beyond the situations people 
immediately think of. In this case, the principle is that harassment is defined 
by the emotions of the person claiming to be harassed.

Compounding this by declaring that acts which are judged subjectively and are 
insignificant in themselves constitute harassment because they add up creates 
a situation in which anyone can be charged with harassment and no defense is 
possible. You've said as much in saying So excluding types of situations from 
even being considered as problems is unnecessary. _Any_ type of situation 
might be considered a harassment situation.



Of course, not just any type will be. That would result in a situation where 
anyone could bring charges and counter-charges on a whim, bringing the whole 
system down. What happens in practice is that the people with the best 
connections or the greater skill in manipulating the system will use it to 
intimidate others.



Here's an example: At IUPUI, a janitor was reading a book called Notre Dame 
vs. the Klan: How the Fighting Irish Defeated the Ku Klux Klan. A union 
official, for reasons I don't know -- maybe he just didn't like the janitor -- 
brought charges of racial harassment against the janitor, because he was 
offended at seeing a book that even mentioned the Klan. The university's 
affirmative action officer told him: You used extremely poor judgment by 
insisting on openly reading the book related to a historically and racially 
abhorrent subject in the presence of your black co-workers. It took 
intervention from the ACLU and FIRE before IUPUI dropped disciplinary 
proceedings and apologized.



If harassment is in the eye of the beholder, then the janitor was harassing 
the union official simply by trying to learn about an abhorrent subject. The 
official may have legitimately felt pain just from being reminded of the 
activities of the Klan in Indiana. Knowing there are lots of historical 
accounts of it might add up. But the result, if it weren't for the determined 
efforts of some people, would have amounted to book-banning. Is that a path 
that library people should be starting down?





On 1/27/13 8:34 PM, Fitchett, Deborah wrote:

 I'm not creating any categories. Whether or not unintentional harassment is 
 actual harassment, it's still worth bothering with. Even if it's a minor 
 thing it's still worth bothering with. Even if someone only harasses me a 
 little because I'm a woman, it still decreases my enjoyment of the community 
 we're participating in simply because I'm a woman and that's still worth 
 bothering with.



 Because all the hundreds of unintentional and minor and little bits of 
 harassment add up. They really, really add up, you know? That one time some 
 guy tried to rape me actually wasn't as impactful (for me personally; mileage 
 varies a lot on this kind of thing) as the hundreds of times guys merely 
 honked/whistled/catcalled when I'm walking along the street.



 No-one's trying to treat every situation

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

There's a reason the code isn't oriented around intent: which is that it's 
perfectly possibly to think one's an upstanding equitable-minded person but 
still make offensive comments that do in fact constitute harassment. This is 
another thing I can say been there done that about, in various contexts. I 
*thought* I was being respectful - but I wasn't. On at least one occasion I was 
saying something racist; on at least another I was demeaning a friend. 
Completely unintentionally, but if you accidentally step on someone's foot it's 
still your responsibility to back off and say sorry the instant you become 
aware of the fact.

(There may not be a universal objective consensus as to what is or isn't 
offensive, but nor is there a universal objective consensus as to what 
someone's intent is. People say I didn't mean to be offensive therefore I 
didn't harass you all the time, sometimes ingenuously, sometimes (as I did) 
absolutely sincerely, and how are we to tell the two apart? Meantime someone 
still got hurt.)

So a code of conduct needs to allow for unintentional harassment in a way that 
protects the person who got hurt without being unduly censorious to the person 
who hurt. Which this code does: it says ~If you're asked to stop harassing 
behaviour you're expected to comply. Because if you didn't intend offense then 
you'll want to stop as soon as you're aware you've offended. So stop, and 
everyone moves on. You're not going to be banned for accidentally stepping on 
someone's foot.

If you persist or if your actions were really egregious then that's another 
matter and that's why we need to mention other possible sanctions. But these 
aren't things you're likely to do accidentally, so there's no need to be 
stressed.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian 
Walls
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 3:24 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

My concern over the anti-harassment policy is part of the definition of 
harassment, particularly:

It includes offensive verbal comments or non-verbal expressions related to 
gender, gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation, disability, 
physical appearance, body size, race, age, religious beliefs, sexual or 
discriminatory images in public spaces (including online).

I'm sure that no one in the community would intentionally threaten another 
person or group, or produce an unsafe environment, but the policy does not 
seem to be oriented around intent, but rather the reaction of the person or 
group who feels offended.  People can be offended by all variety of material, 
and there is no universal, objective consensus as to what is and is not 
offensive.  This translates roughly to:

I am offended by something you said, therefore you harassed me.

This makes me uncomfortable, because even though I can control my own behavior 
and treat others with respect, I cannot anticipate the reactions of others with 
sufficient accuracy to compensate for the risk of the sanction.
Therefore for any interaction in Code4Lib under this policy, I have the wonder 
if something I've said may be misinterpreted or read into in such a way as to 
produce offense.  Very stressful, and a deterrent to participating in the 
community.

Having a section of the policy to deal with misunderstandings and inadvertent 
offense would go a long way towards alleviating my fear of banned for what 
would appear to me as no reason.


-Ian

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
Fitchett, Deborah
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:32 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

When I quote ~you're spoiling our fun it's at the level of a paraphrase of 
one aspect of a synthesis of actual responses. It wasn't by any means the whole 
conversation; I don't recall if it was even the whole of any one person's 
response; but it was one prominent theme that came out of the response to 
people speaking up about problems with Zoia, and that prominence can be 
offputting. Mitigating this was that an even more prominent theme was Okay, 
let's fix things. But this isn't maths and they don't cancel out:
they're both there.

This all said, I actually don't want to talk about Zoia. I don't want to sound 
like I'm stomping on people when all I want to say is that this dynamic exists 
(here, everywhere). And talking about Zoia also feels like a distraction from 
the question I asked and I think Karen was getting at, which is again: going 
forward, how do we react when we're having fun and we're made aware that 
someone else is being hurt by the thing we find fun?

I doubt we need a standard operating procedure but it's something really worth 
thinking about in advance of when it happens. Because it's hard, when that 
happens (having been there) : one wants to be a good person

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

I'm not creating any categories. Whether or not unintentional harassment is 
actual harassment, it's still worth bothering with. Even if it's a minor 
thing it's still worth bothering with. Even if someone only harasses me a 
little because I'm a woman, it still decreases my enjoyment of the community 
we're participating in simply because I'm a woman and that's still worth 
bothering with.

Because all the hundreds of unintentional and minor and little bits of 
harassment add up. They really, really add up, you know? That one time some guy 
tried to rape me actually wasn't as impactful (for me personally; mileage 
varies a lot on this kind of thing) as the hundreds of times guys merely 
honked/whistled/catcalled when I'm walking along the street.

No-one's trying to treat every situation as equivalent, except perhaps you. The 
code of conduct allows admins/helpers/whoever to take the precise nature of the 
situation into account and choose an appropriate response. So excluding types 
of situations from even being considered as problems is unnecessary - and it's 
*really* counterproductive, because those types of minor situations, in the 
aggregate, are as great a barrier to the inclusion of underrepresented groups 
as any single major event.

Deborah 

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Gary 
McGath
Sent: Monday, 28 January 2013 1:45 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

Miscommunication, error, and harassment are all legitimate concerns.
Sometimes one person says something and another person hears it as offensive 
where no offense was intended. Sometimes people say things based on assumptions 
that they should have questioned but didn't.
Sometimes they set out to dominate or hurt another person. These are three 
different things, and treating them as equivalent is more likely to make the 
situation worse than to help.

Creating the category of unintentional harassment diminishes the nature of 
actual harassment. If the statement I was harassed means only someone said 
something with good intent that made me feel bad,
then harassment is a minor thing, not worth bothering with. When words are 
stretched, they're stretched in both directions; if harassment has nothing to 
do with intent, then it's a relatively minor issue, and people who harass in 
the normal sense of the word can hide behind the dilution of the term. If the 
stretched meaning of the word becomes normal, they can say, Hey, what's the 
big deal? All I did was harass her a little.

Speech that offends simply on the basis that someone claims to be offended is 
a fourth category apart from miscommunication, error, and harassment. If it's a 
private conversation and someone says Stop talking to me, hanging around me, 
etc., that request should be respected regardless of the reason. But if we're 
talking about public speech, a requirement to stop amounts to granting anyone's 
emotions a veto on other people's public statements, and I've already discussed 
the problem with that.

On 1/27/13 4:27 PM, Fitchett, Deborah wrote:
 There's a reason the code isn't oriented around intent: which is that it's 
 perfectly possibly to think one's an upstanding equitable-minded person but 
 still make offensive comments that do in fact constitute harassment. This is 
 another thing I can say been there done that about, in various contexts. I 
 *thought* I was being respectful - but I wasn't. On at least one occasion I 
 was saying something racist; on at least another I was demeaning a friend. 
 Completely unintentionally, but if you accidentally step on someone's foot 
 it's still your responsibility to back off and say sorry the instant you 
 become aware of the fact.

 (There may not be a universal objective consensus as to what is or 
 isn't offensive, but nor is there a universal objective consensus as 
 to what someone's intent is. People say I didn't mean to be offensive 
 therefore I didn't harass you all the time, sometimes ingenuously, 
 sometimes (as I did) absolutely sincerely, and how are we to tell the 
 two apart? Meantime someone still got hurt.)

 So a code of conduct needs to allow for unintentional harassment in a way 
 that protects the person who got hurt without being unduly censorious to the 
 person who hurt. Which this code does: it says ~If you're asked to stop 
 harassing behaviour you're expected to comply. Because if you didn't intend 
 offense then you'll want to stop as soon as you're aware you've offended. So 
 stop, and everyone moves on. You're not going to be banned for accidentally 
 stepping on someone's foot.

 If you persist or if your actions were really egregious then that's another 
 matter and that's why we need to mention other possible sanctions. But these 
 aren't things you're likely to do accidentally, so there's no need to be 
 stressed.

 Deborah



--
Gary McGath, Professional Software Developer

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

No, it doesn't sound that reasonable to me, actually. There's a code of conduct 
which has been developed the way Code4Lib develops things: ie the work's been 
done by people who're interested in doing the work. What's special about 
anti-harassment that it alone should bear the burden of bureacracy?

Is there really anything so controversial about If you harass people, and 
organisers ask you to stop, and you don't stop, then organisers may kick you 
out of whatever the context is?  This is just not that ambiguous. And honestly 
I'm not terribly comfortable when the conversation starts to get all waffly 
about whether or not we should expect people to commit to something that is 
basic human decency and a vital part of the social contract. Why would we be 
more worried even in the abstract about an obdurate harasser than about the 
comfort of the people zie's harassing?

You may not like the word uncomfortable (though you're happy enough to use 
uneasy) but why *shouldn't* we have as a priority to ensure the comfort of 
members in our community? There's a vast difference between being uncomfortable 
because you're not familiar with Python and being uncomfortable because 
someone's harassing you and I think everyone here is clever enough not to 
conflate the two.

--And how did we get from The code of conduct is sufficient so let's not 
overthink things! to Wait, we need to implement procedures to vote on the 
code of conduct! anyway??

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Shaun 
Ellis
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 10:38 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

 I am uneasy about coming up with a policy for banning people (from
 what?) and voting on it, before it's demonstrated that it's even 
 needed. Can't we just tackle these issues as they come up, in context, 
 rather than in the abstract?


I share your unease.  But deciding to situations in context without a set of 
guidelines is simply another kind of policy.  I'm actually more uneasy about 
ambiguity over what is acceptable, and no agreed upon way to handle it.

I don't think the current policy is ready to go to vote as it seems there is 
still some debate over what it should cover and exactly what type of behavior 
it is meant to prevent.

I suggest there is a set time period to submit objections as GitHub issues and 
resolve them before we vote.  Whatever issues can't get resolved end up in a 
branch/fork.  In the end, we vote on each of the forks, or no policy at all.

Does that sound reasonable?

--
Shaun Ellis
User Interace Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University Library



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

If you're harassed to the point that you have to beat the person senseless then 
you should strongly consider reporting the incident to the police. Or a lawyer, 
in case for some reason the harasser doesn't tell the truth about why they got 
beaten senseless and the police end up involved anyway.

Most harassment doesn't go that far (at least until the harasser is convinced 
that you've got reasons for not being willing to beat them senseless no matter 
what they do, such as not wanting to get unfairly arrested) in which case the 
code of conduct says an event organizer, volunteer, or a Code4lib helper in 
person (if at an event) or over IRC.

I would far rather keep it open to various options than having a single person 
on duty, because if you're being harassed and want to report it, then you 
should have a choice of who you feel most comfortable talking to. But this 
isn't to discourage people from volunteering to be *a* duty officer; the more 
options the better.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ranti 
Junus
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 11:23 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

Let's talk the practical and the implementation. Kinda tired reading the on and 
on and on discussions.

So, um, if I get harrased and I felt threatened, can I beat up that person 
senseless first for self-defense, then report the incident to... to whom?

There's on open question on the github [1] that I haven't seen been discussed 
yet. At least, I haven't heard the input from this year's
organizer: Do we require a duty
officerhttp://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Duty_officer
explicitly?
Is it fair/reasonable/workable to have conference staff be in that role?


ranti.

[1] https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy

--
Bulk mail.  Postage paid.



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

People did raise specific issues with Zoia which can reasonably be fit into the 
code of conduct's definition of harassment (many of which have therefore been 
addressed) so saying no one has spoken up seems strange. People did speak up. 
Some people listened and did something about it; some people objected ~You're 
spoiling our fun and this kind of reaction is what has the potential to make 
some people nervous about speaking up, because no-one wants to spoil people's 
fun.

This is what I think Karen was pointing out (in general if I've interpreted 
this instance beyond her intent) - that if we care enough in the abstract to 
make a code of conduct then we should also care enough in the abstract to 
consider how, practically, we're going to help people feel willing to speak up?

Note before anyone gets nervous I'm *not* leaping to censorship as a solution. 
I'm asking:  if I'm having fun doing X, and a friend of mine says that actually 
something about X is making them uncomfortable-as-in-harassed, how should I 
(and by extension the rest of the community) react in order to resolve the 
situation without increasing my friend's discomfort?


[I really hope you can understand the difference between me wanting to be 
comfortable in an environment where no-one's harassing me and wanting to be 
comfortable in an environment where I'm being fed grapes, massaged with 
vanilla oil, and assured that all the lurkers support me in email. I'm not 
agitating for the word to be added to the policy if it's not already there 
because this isn't a court of law and precise diction just doesn't matter, but 
by the same token if it *were* there then I'm pretty sure that, given the 
context of it being an anti-harassment policy, any reasonable person would 
interpret it to mean the former rather than the latter.  (And by the same token 
again, I'm going to drop this at this point because it doesn't matter compared 
to the main discussion above.)]

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Shaun 
Ellis
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 12:09 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

 --And how did we get from The code of conduct is sufficient so let's not 
 overthink things! to Wait, we need to implement procedures to vote on the 
 code of conduct! anyway??


We got there because you replied that there was an ongoing debate about whether 
the policy was sufficient enough to deal with any discomfort folks might have 
about zoia.  I still think the policy is sufficient, as it's meant to be used 
when dealing with incidents in context, not in the abstract.  To date, no one 
has spoken up about an incident where they were harassed by zoia.  Unless 
there's something I missed, it has all been speculation that someone might be 
harassed in the future. 
According to the anti-harassment policy, if you read it, no action should be 
taken.

To be clear, I am only uncomfortable with uncomfortable being used in the 
policy because I wouldn't support it being there.  Differing opinions can make 
people uncomfortable.  Since I am not going to stop sharing what may be a 
dissenting opinion, should I be banned?

It's an anti-harassment policy, not a comfort policy.  If you want to see 
something different, it seems that now is the time to step up and change it. :)



 -Original Message-
 From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf 
 Of Shaun Ellis
 Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 10:38 AM
 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
 Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

 I am uneasy about coming up with a policy for banning people (from
 what?) and voting on it, before it's demonstrated that it's even 
 needed. Can't we just tackle these issues as they come up, in 
 context, rather than in the abstract?


 I share your unease.  But deciding to situations in context without a set of 
 guidelines is simply another kind of policy.  I'm actually more uneasy about 
 ambiguity over what is acceptable, and no agreed upon way to handle it.

 I don't think the current policy is ready to go to vote as it seems there 
 is still some debate over what it should cover and exactly what type of 
 behavior it is meant to prevent.

 I suggest there is a set time period to submit objections as GitHub issues 
 and resolve them before we vote.  Whatever issues can't get resolved end up 
 in a branch/fork.  In the end, we vote on each of the forks, or no policy at 
 all.

 Does that sound reasonable?

 --
 Shaun Ellis
 User Interace Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University 
 Library


 
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 have received this 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Fitchett, Deborah]

When I quote ~you're spoiling our fun it's at the level of a paraphrase of 
one aspect of a synthesis of actual responses. It wasn't by any means the whole 
conversation; I don't recall if it was even the whole of any one person's 
response; but it was one prominent theme that came out of the response to 
people speaking up about problems with Zoia, and that prominence can be 
offputting. Mitigating this was that an even more prominent theme was Okay, 
let's fix things. But this isn't maths and they don't cancel out: they're both 
there.

This all said, I actually don't want to talk about Zoia. I don't want to sound 
like I'm stomping on people when all I want to say is that this dynamic exists 
(here, everywhere). And talking about Zoia also feels like a distraction from 
the question I asked and I think Karen was getting at, which is again: going 
forward, how do we react when we're having fun and we're made aware that 
someone else is being hurt by the thing we find fun?

I doubt we need a standard operating procedure but it's something really worth 
thinking about in advance of when it happens. Because it's hard, when that 
happens (having been there) : one wants to be a good person, but one also wants 
to have fun. And then there's the ego's self-defense mechanism: a good person 
wouldn't have fun doing something that hurts someone, and I'm a good person, so 
since I was having fun it can't really have hurt anyone. Yeah, bad logic, but 
like I said I've been there and it can take logic a long time to beat the ego 
over that one if you haven't prepared.

Having a code of conduct is fantastic. But if we don't have *at least* vague 
brainstormy ideas of how we'll react to it when a) Your Best Friend says 
Complete Stranger is harassing zir; b) YBF says YotherBF is harassing zir; c) 
CS says YBF is harassing zir; d) CS says you're harassing zir; etc -- then it's 
just false security, has the same potential for denial or coverups as if there 
were no such code, and in that case means all the additional pain of broken 
trust.

And for those that think that this is a fantastic group so it's just a waste of 
time planning for a non-existent situation -- well, I still think it was a 
little bit there with Zoia (the outline of the pattern if nothing else); but 
even if you don't agree with that, this is a transferable skill: if we come up 
with ideas of how we can react here, we can then also use those if similar 
situations come up in other aspects of our lives.

Deborah 

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ross 
Singer
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 3:33 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

On Jan 24, 2013, at 6:50 PM, Fitchett, Deborah 
deborah.fitch...@lincoln.ac.nz wrote:

 People did raise specific issues with Zoia which can reasonably be fit into 
 the code of conduct's definition of harassment (many of which have therefore 
 been addressed) so saying no one has spoken up seems strange. People did 
 speak up. Some people listened and did something about it; some people 
 objected ~You're spoiling our fun and this kind of reaction is what has the 
 potential to make some people nervous about speaking up, because no-one wants 
 to spoil people's fun.

When we're talking about you're spoiling our fun, are we talking about zoia's 
offensive plugins?

I don't think I've seen anybody leap to the defense of @mf or @forecast (or any 
of the others mentioned).  Some people have poured some of their craft beers on 
the ground for their fallen plugins, but I don't think anybody's actually come 
out and actively objected to cleaning up the bot's language.  In fact, on the 
contrary, I think people have been pretty proactive about looking for the 
things that need to be cleaned up and trying to archive what's there before 
cleansing.

I am not sure a defense of zoia is the same thing as a defense of @habla or 
@icp (as two examples).

If we're not talking about zoia anymore, then apologies, -Ross.



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Shaun: and yet when people spoke up on this mailing list about not being 
comfortable with Zoia, part of the response included people telling them 
essentially you're spoiling our fun.

It wasn't the only response, and I do note that things seem to be moving to 
reforming Zoia, which contributes to this group feeling pretty good on the 
whole. But it was still a *noticeable* response, so messages implying that 
current culture/procedures are sufficient without continuing discussion seem 
premature.

Deborah

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Shaun 
Ellis
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013 5:00 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia

Karen, yes, there is a procedure for dealing with speaking up:

// Participants asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply 
immediately. If a participant engages in harassing behavior, organizers may 
take any action they deem appropriate, including warning the offender, 
expulsion from the Code4Lib event, or banning the offender from a chatroom or 
mailing list. // [1]

It's easier to sense someone's discomfort in person.  But in IRC, there's no 
way to tell and the issue can only be addressed if someone speaks up.

[1]
https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md

-Shaun

On 1/23/13 10:28 AM, Karen Coyle wrote:
 Speak up only works if the speaker is treated with respect. If, 
 instead, the speaker is assailed with a litany of you shouldn't think 
 that and you're spoiling our fun, then I doubt if you will get many 
 speakers.

 There needs to be a procedure for dealing with speaking up that 
 doesn't resemble a public drubbing. Until that is added into the 
 policy, the policy itself is a false promise and likely to make things 
 worse for anyone speaking up, rather than better.

 kc


 On 1/23/13 5:21 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
 Isn't this why we have an anti-harrassment policy?  Why not hold zoia 
 (and all bots) accountable to the code of conduct like everyone else?

 If zoia says something that makes you feel uncomfortable, then speak 
 up and we will take appropriate measures by removing the plugin or 
 removing that response from the data set.  Let's not over-think it.

 -Shaun


 On 1/22/13 10:56 PM, Bill Dueber wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Genny Engel gen...@sonoma.lib.ca.us
   wrote:

 Guess there's no groundswell of support for firing Zoia and 
 replacing her/it with a GLaDOS irc bot, then?


 I'm in. We've both said things you're going to regret.

 [GLaDOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glados is the 
 really-quite-mean AI from the games Portal and Portal2]

 On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Genny Engel
 gen...@sonoma.lib.ca.uswrote:

 Guess there's no groundswell of support for firing Zoia and 
 replacing her/it with a GLaDOS irc bot, then?

 *Sigh.*

 Genny Engel


 -Original Message-
 From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of Andromeda Yelton
 Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 11:30 AM
 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
 Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia

 FWIW, I am both an active #libtechwomen participant and someone who 
 is so thoroughly charmed by zoia I am frequently bothered she isn't 
 right there *in my real life*.  (Yes, I have tried to issue zoia 
 commands during face-to-face conversations with non-Code4Libbers.)

 I think a collaboratively maintained bot with a highly open ethos 
 is always going to end up with some things that cross people's 
 lines, and that's an opportunity to talk about those lines and 
 rearticulate our group norms.
   And to that end, I'm in favor of weeding the collection of 
 plugins, whether because of offensiveness or disuse.  (Perhaps this 
 would be a good use of github's issue tracker, too?)

 I also think some sort of 'what's zoia and how can you contribute' 
 link would be useful in any welcome-newbie plugin; it did take me a 
 while to figure out what was going on there.  (Just as it took me 
 the while to acquire the tastes for, say, coffee, bourbon, and blue 
 cheese, tastes which I would now defend ferociously.)

 But not having zoia would make me sad.  And defining zoia to be 
 woman-unfriendly, when zoia-lovers and zoia-haters appear to span 
 the gender spectrum and have a variety of reasons (both gendered 
 and
 non) for
 their reactions, would make me sad too.

 @love zoia.

 Andromeda









--
Shaun Ellis
User Interace Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University Library



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Re: [CODE4LIB] Gender Survey Summary and Results

[Fitchett, Deborah]

Oh well, I'll bite: despite the Are you part of the community questions, I 
just couldn't bring myself to feel that having had an article published in the 
Code4Lib journal made me part of a community rather than part of a table of 
contents. :-) Certainly lurking doesn't qualify for my personal definition 
(I've lurked in all *sorts* of places); I felt community requires (among other 
things) a modicum of two-way communication. Such as if, for example, I should 
ever feel myself called to answer an email on the listserv

Deborah 

-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Bohyun 
Kim
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 8:56 a.m.
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Gender Survey Summary and Results

I just want to say BIG thanks to Rosalyn for running this survey and putting 
together the summary for all of us to view.

The most interesting part to me was that 22 % (female) and 14. 8 % (male) of 
people bothered to take the survey even though they identified themselves as 
not a member of the community.  Wondering what that really means...


~Bohyun


From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Becky Yoose 
[b.yo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:39 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Gender Survey Summary and Results

delurking from all the gender-related threads

That was my understanding as well.

I would at least like to see the limitations of the survey addressed in the 
document, such as response and selection biases, at least for those folks who 
may not be familiar with the existence of such biases.

Interesting numbers, yes. Statistically significant? I think the biases need to 
be considered for answering this one.

/delurk

Thanks,
Becky, survey non-respondent

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote:

 Hmm, it's quite possible you know more about statistics than me, but...

 Usually equations for calculating confidence level are based on the 
 assumption of a random sample, not a volunteering self-selected sample.

 If you have a self-selected sample, then the equations for how likely 
 is this to be a fluke are only accurate if your self-selected sample 
 is representative; and there aren't really any equations that can tell 
 you how likely your self-selected sample is to be representative, it 
 depends on the circumstances (which is why for the statistical 
 equations to be completely valid, you need a random sample).

 Is my understanding.


 On 12/5/2012 2:18 PM, Rosalyn Metz wrote:

 Ross,

 I totally get what you're saying, I thought of all of that too, but 
 according to everything I was reading through, the likelihood that 
 the survey's results are a fluke is extremely low.  Its actually the 
 reason I put information in the write up about the sample size (378), 
 population size (2,250), response rate (16.8%), confidence level 
 (95%), and confidence interval (+/- 4.6%).

 Rosalyn


 On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Thanks, Rosalyn for setting this up and compiling the results!

 While it doesn't change my default position, yes we need more 
 diversity among Code4lib presenters!, I'm not sure, statistically 
 speaking, that you can draw the conclusions you have based on the 
 sample size, especially given the survey's topic (note, I am not 
 saying that women aren't underrepresented in the Code4lib program).

 If 83% of the mailing didn't respond, we simply know nothing about 
 their demographics.  They could be 95% male, they could be 99% 
 female, we have no idea.  I think it is safe to say that the 
 breakdown of the 16% is probably biased towards females simply given 
 the subject matter and the dialogue that surrounded it.  We simply 
 cannot project that the mailing list is
 57/42 from this, I don't think.

 What is interesting, however, is that the number roughly corresponds 
 to the number of seats in the conference.  I think it would be 
 interesting to see how this compares to the gender breakdown at the 
 conference.

 This doesn't diminish how awesome it is that you put this together, 
 though.  Thanks, again to you and Karen!
 -Ross.
 On Dec 5, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Rosalyn Metz rosalynm...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi Friends,

 I put together the data and a summary for the gender survey.  Now 
 that conference and hotel registration has subsided, it's a perfect 
 time for

 you

 to kick back and read through.

 [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
 Data

 https://docs.google.com/**spreadsheet/ccc?key=**
 0AqfFxMd8RTVhdFVQSWlPaFJ2UTh1N**mo0akNhZlVDTlEhttps://docs.google.c
 om/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqfFxMd8RTVhdFVQSWlPaFJ2UTh1Nmo0akNhZlVDTlE


 Gender Survey Data is the raw data for the survey.  Not very 
 interesting, but you can use it to view my Pivot Tables and charts.

 [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
 Summary