Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Thank you, thank you everyone! Your advice has been really helpful. The pep talk will help me get through this period that feels like the equivalent of practicing your scales (ugh) when you're first learning music. I want to play real music, write my own songs, but I still have more drills and technical exercises to master. I have a tendency to dream up projects at the moment that are beyond my skills and it can make me feel a bit lost, but I guess you don't grow unless you get in over your head occasionally. Another analogy is that sometimes it seems like learning programming (et al) is similar to learning any sort of language. You learn vocabulary, grammar and sentence structure, but you're also trying to write a creative essay (or heaven forbid, a novel) at the same time. You don't know the depth of everything you don't know, but you have to plow forward despite your naivete. off topic rambling Since y'all have given me help, I want to give something back. It's nothing to do with code, but I hope y'all enjoy it anyway. It's music by the Japanese composer, performer Susumu Hirasawa who builds all his music with samples he pre-records and uses a computer to cue while on stage. He overlays the his vocals, guitar, keyboard and some other samples while on stage. He pegs the geek meter for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMkTsjCdqIfeature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX6i4bOmGmU Thanks again! Ceci On 5/8/2011 at 12:49 PM, in message c9ec473a.fb33%jlri...@email.unc.edu, Riley, Jenn jlri...@email.unc.edu wrote: Dear Ceci, From what you've said here (already done some OAI-PMH harvesting and implementing a personal project as JSP), it sounds to me as if you're light years ahead of most people in your situation. So my first bit of advice to you is not to sell yourself short. In addition to all of the excellent ideas raised here, I'll suggest some additional strategies for implementing those on-your-own projects that you use to build skills and concrete outputs to show off. You might consider picking some existing OS software to implement, and then learning it, well and deeply. Then add features or otherwise customize it. For example, get Omeka (or some tool written in a language you have basic familiarity with or want to learn) up and running. Examine the code to figure out how it's put together - what's easily customizable and what's deeply baked into the current implementation, where does it rely on existing libraries and where does it start on its own. Add in a Google Map and/or a Simile timeline (if it doesn't do those things already - sorry I haven't been following that closely). Write some code to parse and load data from various sources (Amazon API, Freebase, any of the music services, MARC via library catalog, DC or other XML format via OAI-PMH) into the system. Revisit it again a year later to see how your implementation decisions have held up in light of changes in underlying technologies. Etc. There's a goal to these sorts of activities that goes beyond the obvious learn about the mechanics of this programming language. They give you experience with implementing various tasks, not so that you can do exactly that again, but so that you can do it better the next time. You'll learn from these experiments strengths and weaknesses of various approaches to solving particular technical problems, and the ability to evaluate different ways in which you might solve a problem in order to pick the one that best fits your situation. With some practice doing this evaluation in relation to the code and requirements at hand, over time you can extend this analysis to wider technical and organizational infrastructures, and make good decisions about technical implementations given surrounding organizational realities. Doing some work inside a pre-existing software application I believe will help you work on these sorts of larger issues in addition to the mechanics of writing the code. Now I'm all inspired to drop what I need to be working on today and play with Omeka. I'm not a coder, myself, so I'm sorry to say my advice here does not come from personal experience taking this approach. It does come from spending lots and lots of time working with developers and driving digital library initiatives, and seeing where development initiatives go well and where they don't. The best developers I work with are the ones that know it's not just about the specific technical task at hand, but rather can talk intelligently (and not just to other developers) about the implementation decisions they've made and evaluate their effectiveness. Best of luck. It sounds to me like you're ready to take the next opportunity by storm. Jenn Jenn Riley Head, Carolina Digital Library and Archives The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill http://cdla.unc.edu/ http://www.lib.unc.edu/users/jlriley jennri...@unc.edu (919) 843-5910 On
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
I would take yoga, because, in my experience, the most useful job skill you can have is flexibility. Every technology has a finite lifespan, but unfortunately like our own lifespan, its term is usually impossible to forecast with accuracy. For that reason, I would suggest that you try to take some high level classes on algorithms, data structures, and project management. Of course, I think that Drupal is an excellent choice, and right now it is one of the most marketable skills on the planet. I came at this from the other direction. I was already achieving a modicum of success in the library technology world when I decided to get my MLIS. Cary On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx! -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Along the lines of oh, you meant THIS profession Rotational vs. linear mechanics. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nate Vack Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 4:47 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it? On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? I'd pretty much follow the plot of Batman Begins as closely as possible. Wait, useful to *this* profession? -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
But having actual users is a really different mode of working: you have to figure out what the problem is (often the hardest part of a project) and if your solution actually solves the problem or not. -Esme Seconding Esme and several others. Technology work supports human endeavor. Supporting users in a way that helps them and is sustainable given organizational realities is very hard to do. It took me longer than it should have to let go of my own sense of elegance, appealing architecture, and technology predilections and to instead focus on the work of others with an eye toward technology trends and the future. If you work with and for users as you practice, you should learn firsthand systems analysis lessons. You will learn what *they* need and how to communicate to them what they may not know they can have. If you think about how what you produce will be used when you are not there, you will learn lessons about sustainability. And any work you do will teach you about working within constraints. As Esme points out, this can come from helping one person solve a fairly small problem. Also, you may want to spend some time coming to grips with the technology landscape. There are all kinds of career paths... UX Library automation (no snickering, please) Humanities computing Project management Systems administration Information retrieval (relevance, anyone?) Database design and administration ... Knowing where you want to be in the next five or ten years can help you decide what toys to play with as you practice. A skill you seem to have already learned is to ask others for help. Lots of us have fun in this field, hope you find your way! Tim
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
This isn't the list for psychic PHP ninjas and crocodile wranglers? Dang. My bad. ;-) Ceci Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress 05/09/11 4:11 PM Along the lines of oh, you meant THIS profession Rotational vs. linear mechanics. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Nate Vack Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 4:47 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it? On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ceci Land wrote: How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? I'd pretty much follow the plot of Batman Begins as closely as possible. Wait, useful to *this* profession? -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Dear Ceci, From what you've said here (already done some OAI-PMH harvesting and implementing a personal project as JSP), it sounds to me as if you're light years ahead of most people in your situation. So my first bit of advice to you is not to sell yourself short. In addition to all of the excellent ideas raised here, I'll suggest some additional strategies for implementing those on-your-own projects that you use to build skills and concrete outputs to show off. You might consider picking some existing OS software to implement, and then learning it, well and deeply. Then add features or otherwise customize it. For example, get Omeka (or some tool written in a language you have basic familiarity with or want to learn) up and running. Examine the code to figure out how it's put together - what's easily customizable and what's deeply baked into the current implementation, where does it rely on existing libraries and where does it start on its own. Add in a Google Map and/or a Simile timeline (if it doesn't do those things already - sorry I haven't been following that closely). Write some code to parse and load data from various sources (Amazon API, Freebase, any of the music services, MARC via library catalog, DC or other XML format via OAI-PMH) into the system. Revisit it again a year later to see how your implementation decisions have held up in light of changes in underlying technologies. Etc. There's a goal to these sorts of activities that goes beyond the obvious learn about the mechanics of this programming language. They give you experience with implementing various tasks, not so that you can do exactly that again, but so that you can do it better the next time. You'll learn from these experiments strengths and weaknesses of various approaches to solving particular technical problems, and the ability to evaluate different ways in which you might solve a problem in order to pick the one that best fits your situation. With some practice doing this evaluation in relation to the code and requirements at hand, over time you can extend this analysis to wider technical and organizational infrastructures, and make good decisions about technical implementations given surrounding organizational realities. Doing some work inside a pre-existing software application I believe will help you work on these sorts of larger issues in addition to the mechanics of writing the code. Now I'm all inspired to drop what I need to be working on today and play with Omeka. I'm not a coder, myself, so I'm sorry to say my advice here does not come from personal experience taking this approach. It does come from spending lots and lots of time working with developers and driving digital library initiatives, and seeing where development initiatives go well and where they don't. The best developers I work with are the ones that know it's not just about the specific technical task at hand, but rather can talk intelligently (and not just to other developers) about the implementation decisions they've made and evaluate their effectiveness. Best of luck. It sounds to me like you're ready to take the next opportunity by storm. Jenn Jenn Riley Head, Carolina Digital Library and Archives The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill http://cdla.unc.edu/ http://www.lib.unc.edu/users/jlriley jennri...@unc.edu (919) 843-5910 On 5/6/11 4:06 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: I like this. Maybe it's because it's what I was already thinking about doing. I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment. I can't do them at work, but perhaps the systems department could give me a dataset to play around with in my spare time. I already have a good dataset for one of the projects that I harvested via OAI-PMH. Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? particularly if you focus on really making it as polished as possible (within the limitations of a non-work environment)? I remember building my own darkroom as a teenager and doing BW and color slide and print processing. (yes, I still love the smell of D76 and stop bath. I can bring up the smell purely from memory :) ). I did manage to work for a while in photography because of my original personal investment of time and energy into it as a hobby. I'm just concerned that the things may not work that way any more. Life was not only slower paced back then, but having an exact skill match wasn't required to get a foot in the door. Plus, I'm no Mozart so it's not likely that I'll come up with something uber creative or so nifty that it's used by a community at large. But I do good technical work. I tinker...I make things go. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to start playing with the projects I have in mind. One is already done as a JSP, but I think I'll convert it to something else and clean up the compromises I had to make to get it done in a
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Ceci, When I was getting my MLS, I tried to turn every class project into a programming exercise whether for class or outside of it. I knew that I wanted to be doing software development, so took every opportunity I could find. For instance while I was in cataloging class I learned how to parse and update MARC records as well as about ISBD. When I got towards the end of the program, I was able to negotiate to have my internship be doing some programming working with Jonathan Rochkind remotely on Umlaut. There may be opportunities for you to do similar things whether or not they are for credit. If there is an open source project that you really like, you can learn the technologies behind it, get involved even just by writing documentation, and then see where you can contribute code. While I was in school and throughout my internship I was also working full-time and had a part-time job. That's just to say that when you find the thing that you really want to do, it becomes much easier to find the time to do it and get better at it. I hope you're able to find that thing for you. Jason On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on?
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Hi Ceci, I hope you don't interpret this as a glib throwaway, but the best answer I've seen so far was blogged by Dan Chudnov a while back. Here it is: http://onebiglibrary.net/story/advice-to-a-library-school-student Worth a read, IMO! Best of luck to you, -Mike On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 15:07, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx!
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Thanks Mike. That's exactly the straight up kind of answer I'm looking for. I presently work in cataloging so I find myself really interested in what I'd call the intersection of cataloging and systems work. But at my present library, that intersection doesn't exist, the two worlds are kept quite separate. I have realized that getting the degree will not likely prepare me to do the kind of work I want to do. Nor will my present job. I'm actually considering (fearfully mind you) finding some internships while I'm in school that challenge me more. I'd have to give up health insurance and take on more debt to do so though...ergo the fear. Thanks for your reply. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:11 PM, in message banlktims1g61v_vvvxswmvdtsu7uvld...@mail.gmail.com, Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: Hi Ceci, I hope you don't interpret this as a glib throwaway, but the best answer I've seen so far was blogged by Dan Chudnov a while back. Here it is: http://onebiglibrary.net/story/advice-to-a-library-school-student Worth a read, IMO! Best of luck to you, -Mike On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 15:07, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx!
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
My answer to this question changes every time it gets asked. These days, my thinking is that focusing on skills/tools is backwards. Instead, focus on a problems and solutions. Pick something you want to do, then do it. Figure it all out on the way. If you don't know where to start, build and deploy a simple website. Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try a different solution. Keep trying. Don't be afraid to toss all your work away and start over. Make the website more complex as you go. Add a database. Switch the whole thing to jQuery. Then switch to something else. Just keep going. /dev -- Devon Smith Consulting Software Engineer OCLC Research http://www.oclc.org/research/people/smith.htm On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx! -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
On May 6, 2011, at 3:11 PM, Michael J. Giarlo wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? I hope you don't interpret this as a glib throwaway, but the best answer I've seen so far was blogged by Dan Chudnov a while back. Here it is: http://onebiglibrary.net/story/advice-to-a-library-school-student Similarly, I wrote a piece for the LITA Blog a few years ago that might be relevant -- http://bit.ly/hGqNm1 In a nutshell, it advocates learning: * XML * relational databases * computer-aided indexing * programming/scripting HTH -- Eric Lease Morgan, Digital Projects Librarian Hesburgh Libraries, University of Notre Dame
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
I like this. Maybe it's because it's what I was already thinking about doing. I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment. I can't do them at work, but perhaps the systems department could give me a dataset to play around with in my spare time. I already have a good dataset for one of the projects that I harvested via OAI-PMH. Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? particularly if you focus on really making it as polished as possible (within the limitations of a non-work environment)? I remember building my own darkroom as a teenager and doing BW and color slide and print processing. (yes, I still love the smell of D76 and stop bath. I can bring up the smell purely from memory :) ). I did manage to work for a while in photography because of my original personal investment of time and energy into it as a hobby. I'm just concerned that the things may not work that way any more. Life was not only slower paced back then, but having an exact skill match wasn't required to get a foot in the door. Plus, I'm no Mozart so it's not likely that I'll come up with something uber creative or so nifty that it's used by a community at large. But I do good technical work. I tinker...I make things go. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to start playing with the projects I have in mind. One is already done as a JSP, but I think I'll convert it to something else and clean up the compromises I had to make to get it done in a limited time. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:31 PM, in message BANLkTi=jdvtmgs42dlmhe5+fqnn55kv...@mail.gmail.com, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: My answer to this question changes every time it gets asked. These days, my thinking is that focusing on skills/tools is backwards. Instead, focus on a problems and solutions. Pick something you want to do, then do it. Figure it all out on the way. If you don't know where to start, build and deploy a simple website. Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try a different solution. Keep trying. Don't be afraid to toss all your work away and start over. Make the website more complex as you go. Add a database. Switch the whole thing to jQuery. Then switch to something else. Just keep going. /dev -- Devon Smith Consulting Software Engineer OCLC Research http://www.oclc.org/research/people/smith.htm On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx! -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Spare-time projects definitely get respect. You might also look into low-paying or volunteer freelance web development work for an organization with data management challenges. Schools, small businesses, and non-profits of all stripes can use your help, and in the process you'll pick up some skills. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: I like this. Maybe it's because it's what I was already thinking about doing. I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment. I can't do them at work, but perhaps the systems department could give me a dataset to play around with in my spare time. I already have a good dataset for one of the projects that I harvested via OAI-PMH. Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? particularly if you focus on really making it as polished as possible (within the limitations of a non-work environment)? I remember building my own darkroom as a teenager and doing BW and color slide and print processing. (yes, I still love the smell of D76 and stop bath. I can bring up the smell purely from memory :) ). I did manage to work for a while in photography because of my original personal investment of time and energy into it as a hobby. I'm just concerned that the things may not work that way any more. Life was not only slower paced back then, but having an exact skill match wasn't required to get a foot in the door. Plus, I'm no Mozart so it's not likely that I'll come up with something uber creative or so nifty that it's used by a community at large. But I do good technical work. I tinker...I make things go. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to start playing with the projects I have in mind. One is already done as a JSP, but I think I'll convert it to something else and clean up the compromises I had to make to get it done in a limited time. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:31 PM, in message BANLkTi=jdvtmgs42dlmhe5+fqnn55kv...@mail.gmail.com, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: My answer to this question changes every time it gets asked. These days, my thinking is that focusing on skills/tools is backwards. Instead, focus on a problems and solutions. Pick something you want to do, then do it. Figure it all out on the way. If you don't know where to start, build and deploy a simple website. Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try a different solution. Keep trying. Don't be afraid to toss all your work away and start over. Make the website more complex as you go. Add a database. Switch the whole thing to jQuery. Then switch to something else. Just keep going. /dev -- Devon Smith Consulting Software Engineer OCLC Research http://www.oclc.org/research/people/smith.htm On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Ceci, I'd honestly recommend just continuing to play, experiment and try things. You don't mention programming/scripting in your initial post, but I can promise you that it's at the core of the cat/sys intersection you speak of. There's a wealth of information out there on trying to start learning this kind of thing, and I really would recommend just jumping right in and trying. Here's where I'd start if I was coming from a cataloging background: * Find a large file of MARC data (you can find free samples and files from a number of publishers, or experiment downloading 1 by 1 over z39.50 or OAI. * If your not using MarcEdit already, install it and have a look at your data. * If you know MARC well, and want to learn XML, download yaz, and use yaz-marcdump to convert your marc file to MARC-XML and have a look at that. (This is a single line typed at command prompt). * Install a scripting environment of your choosing (I'd probably recommend one of: ruby, perl, php or python), and the MARC library/module/gem for it. Go here for more information on MARC libraries, MarcEdit and sample MARC Files: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/Working_with_MaRC * Google Hello World [your chosen language], and follow the instructions in the first couple hits you find. * Start playing. In ruby, for example, a simple hello-MARC-world like program that loops through a set of records and prints the title of each one is 6-8 lines, from here, think about things that you might want to dig through records for. Think about questions you might ask a file, such as if the titles not the main entry, print me the main entry, and try to figure out how they might work. As you find yourself having specific questions, you'll find answers to a lot of them online, in sample code, in QA forums like Stack Overflow, and on myriad blogs and articles. I recently stumbled across a LifeHacker thread on teaching oneself to program: http://lifehacker.com/5401954/programmer-101-teach-yourself-how-to-code The last section, titled Patience, Elbow Grease, Trial and Error is the core of the matter to my mind. I think this pretty much echos Devon Eric's responses as well. Play with things, have fun, and try not to be intimidated. Ask questions here and read voraciously. Most importantly, though I've already said it: PLAY, and have FUN! Hope that helps, and have a great weekend. -Corey On 5/6/2011 3:24 PM, Ceci Land wrote: Thanks Mike. That's exactly the straight up kind of answer I'm looking for. I presently work in cataloging so I find myself really interested in what I'd call the intersection of cataloging and systems work. But at my present library, that intersection doesn't exist, the two worlds are kept quite separate. I have realized that getting the degree will not likely prepare me to do the kind of work I want to do. Nor will my present job. I'm actually considering (fearfully mind you) finding some internships while I'm in school that challenge me more. I'd have to give up health insurance and take on more debt to do so though...ergo the fear. Thanks for your reply. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:11 PM, in messagebanlktims1g61v_vvvxswmvdtsu7uvld...@mail.gmail.com, Michael J. Giarloleftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: Hi Ceci, I hope you don't interpret this as a glib throwaway, but the best answer I've seen so far was blogged by Dan Chudnov a while back. Here it is: http://onebiglibrary.net/story/advice-to-a-library-school-student Worth a read, IMO! Best of luck to you, -Mike On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 15:07, Ceci Landcl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Volunteer work can often be a good way to build your skill set on real world problems without having to quit your day job. Since they aren't paying gigs they usually are happy with entry level programmers. I've used idealist.org in the past to find work. M On 05/06/2011 03:07 PM, Ceci Land wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could really challenge your programming, web development etc. skills? I see many people on this list with very strong skills, but in the job world, I don't see many 2nd string/entry level jobs that would allow someone to hone their skills to the level I often see here. I've been thinking that I should focus on further developing my abilities in: HTML/CSS of course, XML, XSLT, PHP, and MySQL (because they're all readily available for someone to play with despite not being employed in a systems department). It seems that anything I can learn about metadata transformations/crosswalks and RDF would be useful too. I also find some classification theories very compelling (ok, I admit that colon classification really got my attention in my first MLIS class) and found myself drawn to potentially being interested in taxonomies and controlled vocabulary. I know nothing about Drupal, but I wonder if I should include in my smorgasbord. How much is too much and where you y'all recommend I put my energy? Any advice is greatly appreciated. The more specific the better. :) Thx!
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Here's my take on whether or not the projects are going to be useful in job hunting. It's a bit of a gamble and honestly they may not. On the other hand, I certainly would take a portfolio as a very good sign of a candidate in my own hunts. But realistically, the job market's just too wild at the moment. It does seem to be smoothing out though. Certainly I would run the portfolio by some systems people you really respect and ask them to give an honest opinion. Such projects can be revealing not just in a positive way but a negative one too. (And I feel bad being negative, perhaps just blame it on a bad week. I've seen very few portfolio's that detracted from my opinion of a candidate.) On the other hand though, personal experience, particularly well supported through independent study and also discussion with others gives a huge boost to your skills. I don't know if a candidate in this job market can afford NOT to spend at least some personal time in developing their skills. Perhaps in an ideal world perhaps school and on-job training would cover all ground. If you can though, double-dip and just take a course assignment to the next level or something like that. In other words, such personal work probably won't greatly increase your chances of beating out the competition, but without it likely you're going to have a hard time making a good impression. Of course, hopefully you enjoy this tech stuff so spending personal time isn't too burdensome ;). But I understand, these days it seems like I never have enough time to work on my personal geeky projects. Sorry for the convoluted answer, hopefully it'll help. We can always use more geeky librarians ;). Jon Gorman
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 16:24, Jon Gorman jonathan.gor...@gmail.com wrote: Here's my take on whether or not the projects are going to be useful in job hunting. It's a bit of a gamble and honestly they may not. On the other hand, I certainly would take a portfolio as a very good sign of a candidate in my own hunts. But realistically, the job market's just too wild at the moment. It does seem to be smoothing out though. First I'd echo what Gabe said -- extracurricular work can count in the interview process. Though this probably depends on the job and the committee, I wouldn't be discouraged by it. Were I in your shoes, I would buy new shoes because, really, have you smelled my feet lately? No, were I in your shoes, I'd do a quick poll of the sorts of jobs you'd be interested in landing once you're done with your degree, and make a list of the sorts of technologies referenced. Learning those wouldn't be a bad idea. The key, though, IMO, is not learning any particular set of technologies but demonstrating a love for technology, a willingness to learn new technologies and stay current and be agile, and the ability to apply them in useful ways. -Mike
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
As others have just said, a portfolio may or may not matter. The polished product isn't the issue, though. It's skills, principles and knowledge you pick up while experimenting. Whether or not you share a spare-time project with a potential employer, having spent a bit of time on your own learning about this stuff will make you a stronger candidate a better interviewee. You'll be able to speak that much more confidently and persuasively about a broader range of technologies, which will almost certainly help you in the job market. -Corey On 5/6/2011 4:06 PM, Ceci Land wrote: I like this. Maybe it's because it's what I was already thinking about doing. I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment. I can't do them at work, but perhaps the systems department could give me a dataset to play around with in my spare time. I already have a good dataset for one of the projects that I harvested via OAI-PMH. Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? particularly if you focus on really making it as polished as possible (within the limitations of a non-work environment)? I remember building my own darkroom as a teenager and doing BW and color slide and print processing. (yes, I still love the smell of D76 and stop bath. I can bring up the smell purely from memory :) ). I did manage to work for a while in photography because of my original personal investment of time and energy into it as a hobby. I'm just concerned that the things may not work that way any more. Life was not only slower paced back then, but having an exact skill match wasn't required to get a foot in the door. Plus, I'm no Mozart so it's not likely that I'll come up with something uber creative or so nifty that it's used by a community at large. But I do good technical work. I tinker...I make things go. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to start playing with the projects I have in mind. One is already done as a JSP, but I think I'll convert it to something else and clean up the compromises I had to make to get it done in a limited time. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:31 PM, in messageBANLkTi=jdvtmgs42dlmhe5+fqnn55kv...@mail.gmail.com, Devondec...@gmail.com wrote: My answer to this question changes every time it gets asked. These days, my thinking is that focusing on skills/tools is backwards. Instead, focus on a problems and solutions. Pick something you want to do, then do it. Figure it all out on the way. If you don't know where to start, build and deploy a simple website. Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try a different solution. Keep trying. Don't be afraid to toss all your work away and start over. Make the website more complex as you go. Add a database. Switch the whole thing to jQuery. Then switch to something else. Just keep going. /dev -- Corey A Harper Metadata Services Librarian New York University Libraries 20 Cooper Square, 3rd Floor New York, NY 10003-7112 212.998.2479 corey.har...@nyu.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Agreed: Patience, Elbow Grease, Trial and Error plus stick-to-it-itivenes (to use a word from Seymour Skinner). Mark - Original Message - Ceci, I'd honestly recommend just continuing to play, experiment and try things. You don't mention programming/scripting in your initial post, but I can promise you that it's at the core of the cat/sys intersection you speak of. There's a wealth of information out there on trying to start learning this kind of thing, and I really would recommend just jumping right in and trying. Here's where I'd start if I was coming from a cataloging background: * Find a large file of MARC data (you can find free samples and files from a number of publishers, or experiment downloading 1 by 1 over z39.50 or OAI. * If your not using MarcEdit already, install it and have a look at your data. * If you know MARC well, and want to learn XML, download yaz, and use yaz-marcdump to convert your marc file to MARC-XML and have a look at that. (This is a single line typed at command prompt). * Install a scripting environment of your choosing (I'd probably recommend one of: ruby, perl, php or python), and the MARC library/module/gem for it. Go here for more information on MARC libraries, MarcEdit and sample MARC Files: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/Working_with_MaRC * Google Hello World [your chosen language], and follow the instructions in the first couple hits you find. * Start playing. In ruby, for example, a simple hello-MARC-world like program that loops through a set of records and prints the title of each one is 6-8 lines, from here, think about things that you might want to dig through records for. Think about questions you might ask a file, such as if the titles not the main entry, print me the main entry, and try to figure out how they might work. As you find yourself having specific questions, you'll find answers to a lot of them online, in sample code, in QA forums like Stack Overflow, and on myriad blogs and articles. I recently stumbled across a LifeHacker thread on teaching oneself to program: http://lifehacker.com/5401954/programmer-101-teach-yourself-how-to-code The last section, titled Patience, Elbow Grease, Trial and Error is the core of the matter to my mind. I think this pretty much echos Devon Eric's responses as well. Play with things, have fun, and try not to be intimidated. Ask questions here and read voraciously. Most importantly, though I've already said it: PLAY, and have FUN! Hope that helps, and have a great weekend. -Corey On 5/6/2011 3:24 PM, Ceci Land wrote: Thanks Mike. That's exactly the straight up kind of answer I'm looking for. I presently work in cataloging so I find myself really interested in what I'd call the intersection of cataloging and systems work. But at my present library, that intersection doesn't exist, the two worlds are kept quite separate. I have realized that getting the degree will not likely prepare me to do the kind of work I want to do. Nor will my present job. I'm actually considering (fearfully mind you) finding some internships while I'm in school that challenge me more. I'd have to give up health insurance and take on more debt to do so though...ergo the fear. Thanks for your reply. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:11 PM, in messagebanlktims1g61v_vvvxswmvdtsu7uvld...@mail.gmail.com, Michael J. Giarloleftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: Hi Ceci, I hope you don't interpret this as a glib throwaway, but the best answer I've seen so far was blogged by Dan Chudnov a while back. Here it is: http://onebiglibrary.net/story/advice-to-a-library-school-student Worth a read, IMO! Best of luck to you, -Mike On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 15:07, Ceci Landcl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Hi Ceci, I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment... Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? Yes they do -- at least they do at the type of place you would probably want to work. Over the years, I've served on a lot of search committees for library techie positions, and that's something I ask about for candidates that don't already have a lot of work skills/projects documented on their resume. And even if they didn't get respect, it still pays off in other ways: that type of project forces you to solve the types of problems that always crop up outside a classroom environment... and which are the types of problems you will encounter in a real-work environment. And just as importantly, projects like that increase your *confidence* in yourself. That confidence comes across in interview situations. Heck, I *still* work on spare-time projects as I have the time. They give me a chance to learn new skills that, more often than not, I then end up utilizing in my day job. Win for me, win for my employer. -- Michael # Michael Doran, Systems Librarian # University of Texas at Arlington # 817-272-5326 office # 817-688-1926 mobile # do...@uta.edu # http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Gabriel Farrell gsf...@gmail.com wrote: Spare-time projects definitely get respect. They can make a monstrous difference. Most of the time, what you can convince people you know is far more important than what your pedigree says. Employers want to know what motivates you and what you do when no one is watching. If they learn you work on the problems they care about in your spare time, they know it bodes well for them if they hire you... kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Oh, and though this might be orthogonal, the most important part: attend conferences like Code4Lib and make connections. I've met a few of my employers throughout the years this way. Buying a round of pints on occasion pays off. -Mike
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? I'd pretty much follow the plot of Batman Begins as closely as possible. Wait, useful to *this* profession? -n
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
Ceci- I'll echo what others have said: spare time projects definitely count for me when I'm looking at resumes, and they show initiative and genuine interest. The one other thing I'd add is to encourage you to find underserved users, either at work or in your personal life. When I was in your position, my first baby programming projects were doing things like making an Excel spreadsheet to automate statistics that a coworker was doing by hand, writing a script for my wife to find references in her papers that needed to be cited in the references section, etc. Programming for yourself is fun, and can very rewarding. It's a great way to learn new tech when it's not needed at work. But having actual users is a really different mode of working: you have to figure out what the problem is (often the hardest part of a project) and if your solution actually solves the problem or not. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu In the old days, an operating system was designed to optimize the utilization of the computer's resources. In the future, its main goal will be to optimize the user's time. -- Jakob Nielsen On May 6, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Ceci Land wrote: I like this. Maybe it's because it's what I was already thinking about doing. I have 3 project ideas twirling around in my head at the moment. I can't do them at work, but perhaps the systems department could give me a dataset to play around with in my spare time. I already have a good dataset for one of the projects that I harvested via OAI-PMH. Do these spare-time projects get any respect from the real world when it comes time to apply for a job? particularly if you focus on really making it as polished as possible (within the limitations of a non-work environment)? I remember building my own darkroom as a teenager and doing BW and color slide and print processing. (yes, I still love the smell of D76 and stop bath. I can bring up the smell purely from memory :) ). I did manage to work for a while in photography because of my original personal investment of time and energy into it as a hobby. I'm just concerned that the things may not work that way any more. Life was not only slower paced back then, but having an exact skill match wasn't required to get a foot in the door. Plus, I'm no Mozart so it's not likely that I'll come up with something uber creative or so nifty that it's used by a community at large. But I do good technical work. I tinker...I make things go. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to start playing with the projects I have in mind. One is already done as a JSP, but I think I'll convert it to something else and clean up the compromises I had to make to get it done in a limited time. Ceci On 5/6/2011 at 2:31 PM, in message BANLkTi=jdvtmgs42dlmhe5+fqnn55kv...@mail.gmail.com, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: My answer to this question changes every time it gets asked. These days, my thinking is that focusing on skills/tools is backwards. Instead, focus on a problems and solutions. Pick something you want to do, then do it. Figure it all out on the way. If you don't know where to start, build and deploy a simple website. Try a solution. If it doesn't work, try a different solution. Keep trying. Don't be afraid to toss all your work away and start over. Make the website more complex as you go. Add a database. Switch the whole thing to jQuery. Then switch to something else. Just keep going. /dev -- Devon Smith Consulting Software Engineer OCLC Research http://www.oclc.org/research/people/smith.htm On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Ceci Land cl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: Hello everyone. The recent thread asking people what they would like to learn if they had the time brought another question to my mind. If you were looking to get into this side of the profession, what would you recommend focusing on? IOW, suppose you were a current MLIS graduate student (that's me) who has a techy sort of inclination. But also assume that your current job as paraprofessional staff involves minimal computer skills, no programming or scripting and this situation will not ever change. Imagine that you've taken every programming and database class you can fit into your schedule, but you realize that course work will only take you slightly beyond a beginner level even if you make A's. (in an IS based program, not CS. I would have preferred the CS route, but work could not accommodate the class/lab time during the days) How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? Will developing projects on your personal time and hosting them yourself be enough to get noticed when they day comes that you graduate with your shiny new diploma? What core skills would you choose to focus on? Would you give up a secure job with benefits to find an internship that could
Re: [CODE4LIB] If you were starting over, what would you learn and how would you do it?
That may apply to this profession, too. I've often been convinced that someone in the c4l community *was* Batman. On 5/6/2011 4:47 PM, Nate Vack wrote: On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Ceci Landcl...@library.msstate.edu wrote: How would you choose to develop your skills from baby level to something useful to the profession? I'd pretty much follow the plot of Batman Begins as closely as possible. Wait, useful to *this* profession? -n -- Corey A Harper Metadata Services Librarian New York University Libraries 20 Cooper Square, 3rd Floor New York, NY 10003-7112 212.998.2479 corey.har...@nyu.edu
