Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
TMI?
Sweating the details IS how you get good user experience design.
I am sometimes reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote:I was working on the
proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the
afternoon I put it back again.
If you replace poem with site and comma with .button
{text-transform: uppercase; }, then I considerthat a day well-spent :)
Alex
On 2014-10-02 22:04, Brad Coffield wrote:
So many responses to address! ah!
The LITA support to this idea is lovely to see. Thank you very much.
I agree that code4lib is awesome and that we could potentially create a
document which would gain traction in the wider community BUT I really do
think official support/integration is the best case scenario.
Shaun, http://guidelines.usability.gov/ is a neat site and I'll have to
explore it more, even just for myself. How does this differ from my vision
of what we're discussing (to say nothing of Josh's vision or anyone else's):
1. I think that it makes best sense as far as official
validation/circulation (and for ease of use by all librarian's regardless
of experience) to have a much abbreviated document listing best practices.
And works cited. And maybe an appendix with more information. A sort of
list that the group could agree upon that Well, if a library does these
things they are well along the way to great usability. It wouldn't address
a lot of the nitty gritty details that guidelines.usability.gov does, for
example 13:9 Use Radio Buttons for Mutually Exclusive Selections. That is
an excellent point but TMI for the document I'm describing.
1a. This document would be succinct enough that managing it would be easy.
We need to have something easy to update or it risks becoming old and
useless.
1b. I really like the point made by Christina about not re-inventing the
wheel. And this is exactly where I'm coming from. Yes, there's a ton of
great UX stuff out on the web but what would be a great service to
libraryland would be for a group of knowledgeable librarians to come
together and do all that research work and present everyone with a
simplified 'wheel' for general use.
2. But I'm picturing a lot beyond this. Some sort of website (wiki,
whatever) where library people are able to pool knowledge and resources.
Best practices with libguides. Libguides customizations. I recently did a
complete makeover on our Illiad site - I could share info/steps on how I
did that, for example. People could share useful scripts etc. etc.
The first document would primarily/exclusively be general web best
practices but the second thing - that would go beyond.
Just my thinking. I'm game to help whatever ends up taking shape :)
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
That's a point well-taken and I totally agree. The amount of decisions and
back-and-forth with design is truly huge.
My thinking was that we would develop something like a primer for wide
circulation with the large volume of nitty-gritty best practices available
at a central location (in addition to all that extra stuff I mentioned
regarding library products.)
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Alex Armstrong aarmstr...@acg.edu wrote:
TMI?
Sweating the details IS how you get good user experience design.
I am sometimes reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote:I was working on the
proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the
afternoon I put it back again.
If you replace poem with site and comma with .button
{text-transform: uppercase; }, then I considerthat a day well-spent :)
Alex
On 2014-10-02 22:04, Brad Coffield wrote:
So many responses to address! ah!
The LITA support to this idea is lovely to see. Thank you very much.
I agree that code4lib is awesome and that we could potentially create a
document which would gain traction in the wider community BUT I really do
think official support/integration is the best case scenario.
Shaun, http://guidelines.usability.gov/ is a neat site and I'll have to
explore it more, even just for myself. How does this differ from my vision
of what we're discussing (to say nothing of Josh's vision or anyone
else's):
1. I think that it makes best sense as far as official
validation/circulation (and for ease of use by all librarian's regardless
of experience) to have a much abbreviated document listing best practices.
And works cited. And maybe an appendix with more information. A sort of
list that the group could agree upon that Well, if a library does these
things they are well along the way to great usability. It wouldn't
address
a lot of the nitty gritty details that guidelines.usability.gov does, for
example 13:9 Use Radio Buttons for Mutually Exclusive Selections. That
is
an excellent point but TMI for the document I'm describing.
1a. This document would be succinct enough that managing it would be easy.
We need to have something easy to update or it risks becoming old and
useless.
1b. I really like the point made by Christina about not re-inventing the
wheel. And this is exactly where I'm coming from. Yes, there's a ton of
great UX stuff out on the web but what would be a great service to
libraryland would be for a group of knowledgeable librarians to come
together and do all that research work and present everyone with a
simplified 'wheel' for general use.
2. But I'm picturing a lot beyond this. Some sort of website (wiki,
whatever) where library people are able to pool knowledge and resources.
Best practices with libguides. Libguides customizations. I recently did a
complete makeover on our Illiad site - I could share info/steps on how I
did that, for example. People could share useful scripts etc. etc.
The first document would primarily/exclusively be general web best
practices but the second thing - that would go beyond.
Just my thinking. I'm game to help whatever ends up taking shape :)
--
Brad Coffield, MLIS
Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian
Saint Francis University
814-472-3315
bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Sadly, so true! B/c libraries are rare special snowflakes that don't operate by the rules of the rest of the web universe ;) Speaking of library community web standards re: libguides, can anyone share what their library uses as metrics for success / key performance indicators in LibGuides (or non-libguides-based digital research guides)? I appreciate it. Thank you, Sharon Clapp Digital Resources Librarian CCSU – Elihu Burritt Library 860-832-2059 scl...@ccsu.edu -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Bennett Ponsford Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 4:25 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) On the other hand, I'm looking for best practices that I call point librarians to. And for that, having support from ALA/LITA is pretty much essential. I can quote Jared Spool or Jakob Nielsen till I'm blue in the face and no one will listen, but if I can say these guidelines come from ALA more people at my place of work will actually listen. Bennett - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bennett Claire Ponsford | Digital Services Librarian -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
How would such a document differ from the usability guidelines published by the Department of Health and Human Services? http://guidelines.usability.gov/ (Now that's official!) -Shaun On 10/1/14 4:24 PM, Bennett Ponsford wrote: On the other hand, I'm looking for best practices that I call point librarians to. And for that, having support from ALA/LITA is pretty much essential. I can quote Jared Spool or Jakob Nielsen till I'm blue in the face and no one will listen, but if I can say these guidelines come from ALA more people at my place of work will actually listen. Bennett - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bennett Claire Ponsford | Digital Services Librarian -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
You will also have support from the LITA Board on this. The document/wiki can be published/publicised far and wide. The UX IG can bring the document to the board and ask for endorsement, which will also help with its authority. The IG could also take responsibility for the yearly updating, and it could turn into scholarly work from there--in the C4L journal, ITAL, ACRL publications, etc, which would also boost its authority among folks off-list. Exciting! I'm leaving the Board in July 2015, but there are at least 2 other members on this list: Bohyun and Andromeda. Maybe others; I haven't looked. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Kim, Bohyun b...@hshsl.umaryland.edu wrote: Josh, Brad, and Lisa, The LITA UX IG can provide ALA Connect for use. Check here: http://connect.ala.org/node/222849.You can create an account and use it whether you are a member of ALA/LITA or not. (If you are a member, do join the UX IG though. :) ALA Connect is just a Drupal system so it can offer things that Drupal does - chat room, postings, discussion forum, holding docs, voting, etc. The point that Sean and Shaun made is a good one. The content being housed in ALA Connect won't necessarily command the authority. Only the actual quality of the document will do that. And if you want to house the content in easily editable wiki, I think Code4Lib Wiki may be better suited for that. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Main_Page But you are right that ALA will have a much wider reach to those who will benefit from this. (Some ALA divisions like ACRL actually publishes standards; LITA hasn't done that in the past nor Code4Lib. But it is not impossible to do so.) Whichever route you go, you are welcome to leverage LITA UX as your discussion forum and use other tools there as well. IMHO, as long as the final content is cross-linked, we will all benefit. Cheers, ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 3:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
One approach you might take, is to do what the federal government and local governments are increasingly doing: selectively adopt industry standards. So like for building code. Most municipalities adopt the generic one and then list exceptions. So the effort is spent reviewing and selecting the best standards (best practices, guidelines), and preparing a document, not re-inventing the wheel. 2c Christina -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) You will also have support from the LITA Board on this. The document/wiki can be published/publicised far and wide. The UX IG can bring the document to the board and ask for endorsement, which will also help with its authority. The IG could also take responsibility for the yearly updating, and it could turn into scholarly work from there--in the C4L journal, ITAL, ACRL publications, etc, which would also boost its authority among folks off-list. Exciting! I'm leaving the Board in July 2015, but there are at least 2 other members on this list: Bohyun and Andromeda. Maybe others; I haven't looked. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Kim, Bohyun b...@hshsl.umaryland.edu wrote: Josh, Brad, and Lisa, The LITA UX IG can provide ALA Connect for use. Check here: http://connect.ala.org/node/222849.You can create an account and use it whether you are a member of ALA/LITA or not. (If you are a member, do join the UX IG though. :) ALA Connect is just a Drupal system so it can offer things that Drupal does - chat room, postings, discussion forum, holding docs, voting, etc. The point that Sean and Shaun made is a good one. The content being housed in ALA Connect won't necessarily command the authority. Only the actual quality of the document will do that. And if you want to house the content in easily editable wiki, I think Code4Lib Wiki may be better suited for that. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Main_Page But you are right that ALA will have a much wider reach to those who will benefit from this. (Some ALA divisions like ACRL actually publishes standards; LITA hasn't done that in the past nor Code4Lib. But it is not impossible to do so.) Whichever route you go, you are welcome to leverage LITA UX as your discussion forum and use other tools there as well. IMHO, as long as the final content is cross-linked, we will all benefit. Cheers, ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 3:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I'd like to see us point folks to http://www.usability.gov/ to talk more about process (iterative, agile, adaptive) and analytics/metrics for success so that administration will begin to realize that libraries need to commit resources ($ people) to web work. It's not just a fun little side gig that the average librarian can do in their spare time w/low levels of knowledge. Learning the necessaries takes time. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Pikas, Christina K. Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:27 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) One approach you might take, is to do what the federal government and local governments are increasingly doing: selectively adopt industry standards. So like for building code. Most municipalities adopt the generic one and then list exceptions. So the effort is spent reviewing and selecting the best standards (best practices, guidelines), and preparing a document, not re-inventing the wheel. 2c Christina -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) You will also have support from the LITA Board on this. The document/wiki can be published/publicised far and wide. The UX IG can bring the document to the board and ask for endorsement, which will also help with its authority. The IG could also take responsibility for the yearly updating, and it could turn into scholarly work from there--in the C4L journal, ITAL, ACRL publications, etc, which would also boost its authority among folks off-list. Exciting! I'm leaving the Board in July 2015, but there are at least 2 other members on this list: Bohyun and Andromeda. Maybe others; I haven't looked. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Kim, Bohyun b...@hshsl.umaryland.edu wrote: Josh, Brad, and Lisa, The LITA UX IG can provide ALA Connect for use. Check here: http://connect.ala.org/node/222849.You can create an account and use it whether you are a member of ALA/LITA or not. (If you are a member, do join the UX IG though. :) ALA Connect is just a Drupal system so it can offer things that Drupal does - chat room, postings, discussion forum, holding docs, voting, etc. The point that Sean and Shaun made is a good one. The content being housed in ALA Connect won't necessarily command the authority. Only the actual quality of the document will do that. And if you want to house the content in easily editable wiki, I think Code4Lib Wiki may be better suited for that. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Main_Page But you are right that ALA will have a much wider reach to those who will benefit from this. (Some ALA divisions like ACRL actually publishes standards; LITA hasn't done that in the past nor Code4Lib. But it is not impossible to do so.) Whichever route you go, you are welcome to leverage LITA UX as your discussion forum and use other tools there as well. IMHO, as long as the final content is cross-linked, we will all benefit. Cheers, ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 3:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Designing Digital Services - per the government of the UK's template -would be helpful for the process orientation of user-centered web design (a key principle that library admins have to grasp)- https://www.gov.uk/service-manual -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Pikas, Christina K. Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:27 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) One approach you might take, is to do what the federal government and local governments are increasingly doing: selectively adopt industry standards. So like for building code. Most municipalities adopt the generic one and then list exceptions. So the effort is spent reviewing and selecting the best standards (best practices, guidelines), and preparing a document, not re-inventing the wheel. 2c Christina -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 10:14 AM To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) You will also have support from the LITA Board on this. The document/wiki can be published/publicised far and wide. The UX IG can bring the document to the board and ask for endorsement, which will also help with its authority. The IG could also take responsibility for the yearly updating, and it could turn into scholarly work from there--in the C4L journal, ITAL, ACRL publications, etc, which would also boost its authority among folks off-list. Exciting! I'm leaving the Board in July 2015, but there are at least 2 other members on this list: Bohyun and Andromeda. Maybe others; I haven't looked. On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Kim, Bohyun b...@hshsl.umaryland.edu wrote: Josh, Brad, and Lisa, The LITA UX IG can provide ALA Connect for use. Check here: http://connect.ala.org/node/222849.You can create an account and use it whether you are a member of ALA/LITA or not. (If you are a member, do join the UX IG though. :) ALA Connect is just a Drupal system so it can offer things that Drupal does - chat room, postings, discussion forum, holding docs, voting, etc. The point that Sean and Shaun made is a good one. The content being housed in ALA Connect won't necessarily command the authority. Only the actual quality of the document will do that. And if you want to house the content in easily editable wiki, I think Code4Lib Wiki may be better suited for that. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Main_Page But you are right that ALA will have a much wider reach to those who will benefit from this. (Some ALA divisions like ACRL actually publishes standards; LITA hasn't done that in the past nor Code4Lib. But it is not impossible to do so.) Whichever route you go, you are welcome to leverage LITA UX as your discussion forum and use other tools there as well. IMHO, as long as the final content is cross-linked, we will all benefit. Cheers, ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 3:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
So many responses to address! ah! The LITA support to this idea is lovely to see. Thank you very much. I agree that code4lib is awesome and that we could potentially create a document which would gain traction in the wider community BUT I really do think official support/integration is the best case scenario. Shaun, http://guidelines.usability.gov/ is a neat site and I'll have to explore it more, even just for myself. How does this differ from my vision of what we're discussing (to say nothing of Josh's vision or anyone else's): 1. I think that it makes best sense as far as official validation/circulation (and for ease of use by all librarian's regardless of experience) to have a much abbreviated document listing best practices. And works cited. And maybe an appendix with more information. A sort of list that the group could agree upon that Well, if a library does these things they are well along the way to great usability. It wouldn't address a lot of the nitty gritty details that guidelines.usability.gov does, for example 13:9 Use Radio Buttons for Mutually Exclusive Selections. That is an excellent point but TMI for the document I'm describing. 1a. This document would be succinct enough that managing it would be easy. We need to have something easy to update or it risks becoming old and useless. 1b. I really like the point made by Christina about not re-inventing the wheel. And this is exactly where I'm coming from. Yes, there's a ton of great UX stuff out on the web but what would be a great service to libraryland would be for a group of knowledgeable librarians to come together and do all that research work and present everyone with a simplified 'wheel' for general use. 2. But I'm picturing a lot beyond this. Some sort of website (wiki, whatever) where library people are able to pool knowledge and resources. Best practices with libguides. Libguides customizations. I recently did a complete makeover on our Illiad site - I could share info/steps on how I did that, for example. People could share useful scripts etc. etc. The first document would primarily/exclusively be general web best practices but the second thing - that would go beyond. Just my thinking. I'm game to help whatever ends up taking shape :) -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Josh, Brad, and Lisa, The LITA UX IG can provide ALA Connect for use. Check here: http://connect.ala.org/node/222849.You can create an account and use it whether you are a member of ALA/LITA or not. (If you are a member, do join the UX IG though. :) ALA Connect is just a Drupal system so it can offer things that Drupal does - chat room, postings, discussion forum, holding docs, voting, etc. The point that Sean and Shaun made is a good one. The content being housed in ALA Connect won't necessarily command the authority. Only the actual quality of the document will do that. And if you want to house the content in easily editable wiki, I think Code4Lib Wiki may be better suited for that. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Main_Page But you are right that ALA will have a much wider reach to those who will benefit from this. (Some ALA divisions like ACRL actually publishes standards; LITA hasn't done that in the past nor Code4Lib. But it is not impossible to do so.) Whichever route you go, you are welcome to leverage LITA UX as your discussion forum and use other tools there as well. IMHO, as long as the final content is cross-linked, we will all benefit. Cheers, ~Bohyun -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 3:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
On the other hand, I'm looking for best practices that I call point librarians to. And for that, having support from ALA/LITA is pretty much essential. I can quote Jared Spool or Jakob Nielsen till I'm blue in the face and no one will listen, but if I can say these guidelines come from ALA more people at my place of work will actually listen. Bennett - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bennett Claire Ponsford | Digital Services Librarian -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Joshua Welker Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:57 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Code4Lib is certainly respected among techy librarians, but I would bet that 90% of my coworkers have never heard of it and would not care especially much about a document they publish. Not to disparage the group. I think it's great. I just think that official, institutionalized channels are going to be most effective in this case. I will be gone several days but will start throwing some things together soon. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Hannan Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:30 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Cornel, With the data models, are you referring to the mechanism used to present the standards on the web? Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cornel Darden Jr. Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Hello, I don't think that there is anything like this. I think there are some lone wolves out there who have suggested standards, but I haven't seen anything similar to what has been discussed. If there were, I'd think one of us would know about it. Count me in! I say we create flexible data models: It would be nice if the general flow looked like this data - [library standards] - search backend - result - [web design presentation standards] - view of result Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Library Department Chair South Suburban College 7087052945 Our Mission is to Serve our Students and the Community through lifelong learning. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:17 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: As Brad mentioned, one of the most interesting takeaways from this conversation on LibGuides is the (lack of) recognized best practices in the library community. If the folks here are representative at all, this is a big void in our profession. This is not an acceptable state, IMO, because as more and more library resources become web-based, more and more librarians are having to curate web-based content (e.g. LibGuides). Yet, most of us lack the time and expertise to figure out how to do it well. It seems like every organization is trying to reinvent the wheel themselves (or just forgoing wheels altogether). It would also be a great help for web librarians if there were some sort of official library web standards that could be used to help get buy-in from other librarians and administrators who otherwise would not be cooperative. (Yes, I know that there are all sorts of general accessibility standards, but something with a librarian stamp of approval would be most helpful.) I have two questions: 1. Does anyone know if anything like this already exists? I know there are about 8 trillion library groups, so there's a good chance, but I didn't find anything in a few minutes of searching. 2. If not, does anyone think it would be a good idea for a group like this to get the ball rolling on creating some official best practices for web design and web content for the library community? Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 1:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav On a different note, just wanted to say that I have found this entire thread massively interesting and very useful. *pats self on back for starting it* lol Thanks to all who've been chiming in. (not trying to shut it down) I'll probably be starting another thread eventually on something that was discussed in here: best practices and creating rules for guide creators. We're a small school and everyone who needs to be on board is on board with creating a style guide and a peer-review process to ensure the style guide is followed. I've been tapped to be the one to create the style guide which is both exciting and daunting. I want to cover all the little stuff - some naming conventions etc. but also want to build something that will help us all follow best practices for web design and accessibility.I'll likely lean on the group's expertise for these at some point this semester. Many of our guides aren't getting the usage they should to justify the time spent creating and maintaining them. Beyond the time issue to properly develop them I think that a real part of the reason is that they are just so user-unfriendly and difficult to navigate. There were some hilarious comments earlier in this thread about others' school's out-of-control styles and we have that too but its even just more than that. I think we were operating under a let's get all kindsa stuff up here and it's gonna be awesome! paradigm and now we need to restructure and look at these as real websites that happen to be guides. The v2 migration is a great time to do it. /ramble On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Brad Coffield bcoffield.libr...@gmail.com wrote: I also think all of these ideas are awesome. The idea of a third-party space, or even someplace sponsored by springshare, to share customizations etc. could help so many of us. Even short of developing a plug-in system, having someplace to share template customizations, CSS, etc. would be HUGE. Github seems like a very reasonable option though it's true the tech bar for admission is pretty high. It would be great if we had a place where those admins Cindi mentioned who aren't
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
We¹re in the process of switching over from Wordpress to Libguides (hopefully) and this sounds like it would be super helpful. While I¹m familiar with LibGuides (from other library work), the rest of our staff here hasn¹t had the opportunity to learn much about them. So, however I can possibly help, I¹d love to jump in. Holli Duggan Distance Education E-Resources Librarian Link Library - Concordia University Nebraska (402) 643-7382 On 9/30/14, 9:22 AM, Brad Coffield bcoffield.libr...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Hey guys I am new to this list so I beg your pardon if I am responding to the wrong people. I have been trying to follow the conversation below and agree with Michael, I am still not clear what the end goal is. Having been developer for a number of years now(and looking at this from that perspective), I worry that any suggestions/best practices now will be wrong in the near future (change is constant). I know it stinks, but I don't see any other way but wade through lots of technical documents to understand WHY they(document writer) suggest something. What is applicable now to someone is not the case for someone else/ or in the future. Case in point, which is better to use for hosting a web application Tomcat or Jetty? The answer is it really depends. Until we have computers that can write/manage code for you, I don't see this changing. John Scancella -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:23 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I toootally don't want to plug inappropriately, but Amanda Goodman and I are in the infancy of trying to spin-out our podcast site (www.libux.co) into a larger resource sharing library-specific code snippets, patterns, and curate useful data and reports that can inform design decisions. Not tons of content yet, but hey. // Michael -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:23 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
So, I think what you're talking about mostly entails basic Writing for the Web. I think collaborating on guidelines is more helpful than standards... and no need to get all official -- just do it on Github or something and see if it's helpful. A List Apart has a pretty concise, but helpful style guide for authors/content creators: http://alistapart.com/about/style-guide They also have published a helpful article on creating visual style guides and pattern libraries (to avoid those hot pink text on green backgrounds), although those would probably be more organization-centric: http://alistapart.com/article/creating-style-guides http://alistapart.com/blog/post/getting-started-with-pattern-libraries -Shaun On 9/30/14 10:22 AM, Brad Coffield wrote: I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Shaun Ellis User Interface Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University Library 609.258.1698 “Any darn fool can get complicated. It takes genius to attain simplicity.” -Pete Seeger
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
John, I see your point. What I had in mind would be focusing on front-end technologies, mainly user interface and design patterns. Backend tech trends change so often that any document would be obsolete by the time it is finished. There would also have to be a group committed to regularly updating this information. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Scancella, John Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:34 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Hey guys I am new to this list so I beg your pardon if I am responding to the wrong people. I have been trying to follow the conversation below and agree with Michael, I am still not clear what the end goal is. Having been developer for a number of years now(and looking at this from that perspective), I worry that any suggestions/best practices now will be wrong in the near future (change is constant). I know it stinks, but I don't see any other way but wade through lots of technical documents to understand WHY they(document writer) suggest something. What is applicable now to someone is not the case for someone else/ or in the future. Case in point, which is better to use for hosting a web application Tomcat or Jetty? The answer is it really depends. Until we have computers that can write/manage code for you, I don't see this changing. John Scancella -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:23 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
*puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
To elaborate a bit more, there are two end goals in my mind: 1. An information resource for how to apply good design and usability principles to library websites. 2. To have a widely adopted set of web standards in the library community, which would be a big help in getting buy-in from librarians and administrators for making large user-centered changes to the library's web presence. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Joshua Welker [mailto:wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:43 AM To: Code for Libraries Subject: RE: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) John, I see your point. What I had in mind would be focusing on front-end technologies, mainly user interface and design patterns. Backend tech trends change so often that any document would be obsolete by the time it is finished. There would also have to be a group committed to regularly updating this information. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Scancella, John Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:34 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Hey guys I am new to this list so I beg your pardon if I am responding to the wrong people. I have been trying to follow the conversation below and agree with Michael, I am still not clear what the end goal is. Having been developer for a number of years now(and looking at this from that perspective), I worry that any suggestions/best practices now will be wrong in the near future (change is constant). I know it stinks, but I don't see any other way but wade through lots of technical documents to understand WHY they(document writer) suggest something. What is applicable now to someone is not the case for someone else/ or in the future. Case in point, which is better to use for hosting a web application Tomcat or Jetty? The answer is it really depends. Until we have computers that can write/manage code for you, I don't see this changing. John Scancella -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:23 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Cindi, A LITA interest group sounds like it would be ideal. I think it is very important for this document to be associated with an official professional library organization if it is going to carry any weight or credibility with rank-and-file librarians. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:44 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cindi Blyberg cindi...@gmail.com wrote: *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Agreed that this would need some official stamp to really be meaningful. LITA sounds like a great venue. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Cindi, A LITA interest group sounds like it would be ideal. I think it is very important for this document to be associated with an official professional library organization if it is going to carry any weight or credibility with rank-and-file librarians. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:44 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cindi Blyberg cindi...@gmail.com wrote: *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cindi Blyberg cindi...@gmail.com wrote: *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like LITA, and get them to adopt it after making their own tweaks. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Schofield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:01 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/ forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cindi Blyberg cindi...@gmail.com wrote: *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs are fluid, volunteer-run (not appointed), and can pretty much do what they want. Publish and update something? Sure! Establish and run a virtual conference? Definitely! Have meetings and programs at conferences? Yes! Caveat: must be a LITA member. Happy to provide more info if needed. -Cindi of the many hats On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: I definitely agree that we should adhere to larger web standards and that we should actively discourage conventions that libraries have adopted over the years that have nothing to do with wider standards and best practices (e.g. tabbed search boxes, content in sidebar regions). In fact, much of our work would just be bringing together information from several standards into a common location and putting a librarian stamp of approval on it. Some topics I had in mind: -Accessibility standards: screen readers, color blindness, keyboard navigation, alt tags, etc. -Text: readable fonts, colors, text alignment -Page layout: navigation location, sidebars, headings and subheadings, search box designs, database pages, mobile friendliness -Best practices for specific library platforms: LibGuides, DSpace, etc. Some official name would be required, of course. I also think it would be great if we could write a draft, bring it to an official ALA group like
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Megan, useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners but are sort of struggling to level up? - Love that description. I think the kind of guide everyone is brainstorming would be great for everyone in that boat. (at least as I'm picturing it) Hopefully, it would be excellent for non-tech people to go to for succinct, authoritative information like, White space good. For those looking to level up to learn more from the guidelines and find places to learn more. And for experts to brush up on current trends. That's what I'm thinking. Michael, That would be awesome if libux went in that direction. I've always felt that librarians have had a general ethos of if it ain't broke... and of sharing materials and building off of each others work. But I don't know that that really happens for library web stuff. This list, yes. But there's no sort of structured pre-existing repository of awesomeness.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/ forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Cindi Blyberg cindi...@gmail.com wrote: *puts on LITA hat* There are several ways that LITA/ALA could play a role here. Publications: There is a series of books called LITA Guides. Great way to get the word out widely, but a static format. http://www.alastore.ala.org/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=lita There are also Library Technology Reports - a periodical. Still static, but published more regularly: http://alatechsource.org/ltr/index There is also the LITA UX Interest Group. IGs
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I¹m jumping in very late in the game here, but I would love to be involved in this discussion (I¹ll even join LITA!). Here at UofT, we¹ve done some work in this area that could be worth sharing. We¹re in the process of creating guidelines for many of the topics mentioned below, so it would be great to learn from others, collaborate, and share. I like the idea of the UX IG; it¹s flexible and collegial, but still weighty enough to lend the content credibility. Lisa Gayhart | Digital Communications Services Librarian| University of Toronto Libraries | Information Technology Services | lisa.gayh...@utoronto.ca| 416-946-0959 On 2014-09-30, 3:19 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Oh, and if UX doesn't fit, y'all can establish the LITA Web Standards IG, or the LITA Code4Lib Web Best Practices IG, or whatever you want to call it. You need 10 LITA Member signatures: http://www.ala.org/lita/sites/ala.org.lita/files/content/about/manual/ forms/e5-igformation.pdf http://www.ala.org/lita/about/igs On Tue, Sep 30
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Hello, I think official is definitely the way too go! LITA. I'm signing up right now! Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Library Department Chair South Suburban College 7087052945 Our Mission is to Serve our Students and the Community through lifelong learning. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 30, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Sean Hannan shan...@jhu.edu wrote: I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able from our post mortem project conversations, relevant to each type of project? It's something I've been thinking about for some time, and I'm still not sure what an optimal structure would be, but I keep thinking it would be a really worthwhile project. I will also say that everything I've found on alistapart and libux has been incredibly useful! On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: How many folks following this discussion are LITA members? Would anyone be willing to join LITA to be a part of an interest group on this subject? I will renew my membership in LITA if that is the best route to take. Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cindi Blyberg Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:46 AM To: CODE4LIB
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Glad to see the thread, I'll keep an eye on it. Here are some choice styleguides and posts that influence my approach: Mark Otto. (2014) Code Guide by @mdo. http://codeguide.co/ Brent Jackson. (2014) A guide to web design basics with Basscss. http://www.basscss.com/docs/guide/ Adam Morse. (2014) Mobile-first CSS. http://xn--h4hg.ws/2014/08/18/mobile-first-css/ Jacob Thornton. (2014) Medium’s CSS is actually pretty f***ing good. https://medium.com/@fat/mediums-css-is-actually-pretty-fucking-good-b8e2a6c78b06 Brian Zelip --- Graduate School of Library Information Science Graduate Assistant, Scholarly Commons University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign zelip.me On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Cornel Darden Jr. corneldarde...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I think official is definitely the way too go! LITA. I'm signing up right now! Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Library Department Chair South Suburban College 7087052945 Our Mission is to Serve our Students and the Community through lifelong learning. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 30, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Sean Hannan shan...@jhu.edu wrote: I'm just going to jump in here and question the need for it to be ALA or LITA affiliated. Plenty of stuff has been accomplished and respected (like, oh, hey, code4lib) without an attachment of ALA or LITA. Ad...discuss. -Sean From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Joshua Welker [wel...@ucmo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:19 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Bohyun, That sounds like it could be a great fit. There would be two final products for what I have in mind: 1. A wiki site (ideally attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) where we can collaborate and break all this down at the topic level. This is the source that would be used by the boots-on-the-ground librarians who are actually doing UX work and need practical information. It would be continually updated. The content would be curated, and there would be a very basic approval process for creating new editor accounts. 2. An annually-revised document (again, attached to an ALA-affiliated domain name) that compiles everything from the wiki together in a format that can easily be presented to other librarians and administrators. In my experience, a bureaucratically approved document carries a lot more weight in libraries than a website, at least in academic libraries. Topics that would be addressed: 1. Accessibility 2. Layout patterns 3. Typography and readability 4. Best practices for specific library web platforms 5. Recommendations for how libraries should implement the guidelines at a management level (non-technical) Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim, Bohyun Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:42 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Jumping into this discussion late. Just wanted to let everyone know that LITA UX IG would be more than happy to provide a venue for this type of discussion since it would fit the interest of UX IG perfectly. (I am chairing the IG this year; ping me if that sounds interesting and if there is anything LITA UX IG can help.) LITA IGs are super flexible. Cheers, Bohyun -- Bohyun Kim, MA, MSLIS Associate Director for Library Applications and Knowledge Systems University of Maryland, Baltimore Health Sciences and Human Services Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Megan O'Neill Kudzia Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:24 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) I've been following with interest, and I think some really important points are coming out here. John, what you said about Tomcat vs. Jetty really resonated with me - maybe this is *yet another* place where we could split this thread, but I think for those of us straddling the gap between web design and web development, something like a reference guide for what the questions to ask even are, would be extremely helpful. As you said, the answer to many many questions is, it depends, and knowledge of those topics comes with experience. However, maybe (and I volunteer to help with this project, inasmuch as I can) a sort of expansion of the Guide for the Perplexed would be really useful for those of us who are no longer total beginners, but are sort of struggling to level up? That is, those of us with some experience of various projects could contribute anything public-share-able
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Hi Brad, An interesting idea, but many potential failure points. I have been in the position of spending considerable time to develop,best practive materials on web internationalisation for our state government, without any prospect of being able to roll it out within our own library. Wether we are discussing corporate or opensource solutions. Web technologies withon library sector are at,the within the long tail of implementation. But best practice should be encouraged. Andrew On 01/10/2014 12:23 AM, Brad Coffield bcoffield.libr...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that it would be a bad idea to endeavor to create our own special standards that deviate from accepted web best practices and standards. My own thought was more towards a guide for librarians, curated by librarians, that provides a summary of best practices. On the one hand, something to help those without a deep tech background to quickly get up to speed with best practices instead of needing to conduct a lot of research and reading. But beyond that, it would also be a resource that went deeper for those who wanted to explore the literature. So, bullet points and short lists of information accompanied by links to additional resources etc. (So, right now, it sounds like a libguide lol) Though I do think there would potentially be additional information that did apply mostly/only to libraries and our particular sites etc. Off the top of my head: a thorough treatment and recommendations regarding libguides v2 and accessibility, customizing common library-used products (like Serial Solutions 360 link, Worldcat Local and all their competitors) so that they are most usable and accessible. At it's core, though, what I'm picturing is something where librarians get together and cut through the noise, pull out best web practices, and display them in a quickly digested format. Everything else would be the proverbial gravy. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: I am interested but I am a little hazy about what kind of standards you all are suggesting. I would warn against creating standards that conflict with any actual web standards, because I--and, I think, many others--would honestly recommend that the #libweb should aspire to and adhere more firmly to larger web standards and best practices that conflict with something that's more, ah, librarylike. Although that might not be what you folks have in mind at all : ). Michael S. -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:30 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav) Josh, thanks for separating this topic out and starting this new thread. I don't know of any such library standards that exist on the web. I agree that this sounds like a great idea. As for this group or not... why not! It's 2014 and they don't exist yet and they would be incredibly useful for many libraries, if not all. Now all we need is a cool 'working group' title for ourselves and we're halfway done! Right??? But seriously, I'd love to help. Brad -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu -- Brad Coffield, MLIS Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis University 814-472-3315 bcoffi...@francis.edu
[CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
As Brad mentioned, one of the most interesting takeaways from this conversation on LibGuides is the (lack of) recognized best practices in the library community. If the folks here are representative at all, this is a big void in our profession. This is not an acceptable state, IMO, because as more and more library resources become web-based, more and more librarians are having to curate web-based content (e.g. LibGuides). Yet, most of us lack the time and expertise to figure out how to do it well. It seems like every organization is trying to reinvent the wheel themselves (or just forgoing wheels altogether). It would also be a great help for web librarians if there were some sort of official library web standards that could be used to help get buy-in from other librarians and administrators who otherwise would not be cooperative. (Yes, I know that there are all sorts of general accessibility standards, but something with a librarian stamp of approval would be most helpful.) I have two questions: 1. Does anyone know if anything like this already exists? I know there are about 8 trillion library groups, so there's a good chance, but I didn't find anything in a few minutes of searching. 2. If not, does anyone think it would be a good idea for a group like this to get the ball rolling on creating some official best practices for web design and web content for the library community? Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 1:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav On a different note, just wanted to say that I have found this entire thread massively interesting and very useful. *pats self on back for starting it* lol Thanks to all who've been chiming in. (not trying to shut it down) I'll probably be starting another thread eventually on something that was discussed in here: best practices and creating rules for guide creators. We're a small school and everyone who needs to be on board is on board with creating a style guide and a peer-review process to ensure the style guide is followed. I've been tapped to be the one to create the style guide which is both exciting and daunting. I want to cover all the little stuff - some naming conventions etc. but also want to build something that will help us all follow best practices for web design and accessibility.I'll likely lean on the group's expertise for these at some point this semester. Many of our guides aren't getting the usage they should to justify the time spent creating and maintaining them. Beyond the time issue to properly develop them I think that a real part of the reason is that they are just so user-unfriendly and difficult to navigate. There were some hilarious comments earlier in this thread about others' school's out-of-control styles and we have that too but its even just more than that. I think we were operating under a let's get all kindsa stuff up here and it's gonna be awesome! paradigm and now we need to restructure and look at these as real websites that happen to be guides. The v2 migration is a great time to do it. /ramble On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Brad Coffield bcoffield.libr...@gmail.com wrote: I also think all of these ideas are awesome. The idea of a third-party space, or even someplace sponsored by springshare, to share customizations etc. could help so many of us. Even short of developing a plug-in system, having someplace to share template customizations, CSS, etc. would be HUGE. Github seems like a very reasonable option though it's true the tech bar for admission is pretty high. It would be great if we had a place where those admins Cindi mentioned who aren't super tech-expert but do some customizations and would like to do more (and I would put myself in that group) could go to download custom templates, CSS mods to tweak etc.. Even if it was just screenshots and text files for download. Springshare's Best Of guide is really handy and has been useful to me in the past but I think what we're all talking about transcends the capabilities of that site Or maybe not? Could all of this be housed on a regular old libguide?? Different sections for different types of customizations and boxes with individual submissions? Someone would have to manage it and the submissions which might make it untenable. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: If we are talking about a set of _curated_ community plugins, Github (or any of umpteen git platforms) would be fine. A Springshare person and/or designated community persons could control the repos, approving pull requests and managing releases and all that. A new release would be sent to an approval process that would check for bugs, performance problems, security, etc., and this part would have to be done by a Springshare person most likely. If
Re: [CODE4LIB] Library community web standards (was: LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav)
Hello, I don't think that there is anything like this. I think there are some lone wolves out there who have suggested standards, but I haven't seen anything similar to what has been discussed. If there were, I'd think one of us would know about it. Count me in! I say we create flexible data models: It would be nice if the general flow looked like this data - [library standards] - search backend - result - [web design presentation standards] - view of result Thanks, Cornel Darden Jr. MSLIS Library Department Chair South Suburban College 7087052945 Our Mission is to Serve our Students and the Community through lifelong learning. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:17 PM, Joshua Welker wel...@ucmo.edu wrote: As Brad mentioned, one of the most interesting takeaways from this conversation on LibGuides is the (lack of) recognized best practices in the library community. If the folks here are representative at all, this is a big void in our profession. This is not an acceptable state, IMO, because as more and more library resources become web-based, more and more librarians are having to curate web-based content (e.g. LibGuides). Yet, most of us lack the time and expertise to figure out how to do it well. It seems like every organization is trying to reinvent the wheel themselves (or just forgoing wheels altogether). It would also be a great help for web librarians if there were some sort of official library web standards that could be used to help get buy-in from other librarians and administrators who otherwise would not be cooperative. (Yes, I know that there are all sorts of general accessibility standards, but something with a librarian stamp of approval would be most helpful.) I have two questions: 1. Does anyone know if anything like this already exists? I know there are about 8 trillion library groups, so there's a good chance, but I didn't find anything in a few minutes of searching. 2. If not, does anyone think it would be a good idea for a group like this to get the ball rolling on creating some official best practices for web design and web content for the library community? Josh Welker -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brad Coffield Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 1:17 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav On a different note, just wanted to say that I have found this entire thread massively interesting and very useful. *pats self on back for starting it* lol Thanks to all who've been chiming in. (not trying to shut it down) I'll probably be starting another thread eventually on something that was discussed in here: best practices and creating rules for guide creators. We're a small school and everyone who needs to be on board is on board with creating a style guide and a peer-review process to ensure the style guide is followed. I've been tapped to be the one to create the style guide which is both exciting and daunting. I want to cover all the little stuff - some naming conventions etc. but also want to build something that will help us all follow best practices for web design and accessibility.I'll likely lean on the group's expertise for these at some point this semester. Many of our guides aren't getting the usage they should to justify the time spent creating and maintaining them. Beyond the time issue to properly develop them I think that a real part of the reason is that they are just so user-unfriendly and difficult to navigate. There were some hilarious comments earlier in this thread about others' school's out-of-control styles and we have that too but its even just more than that. I think we were operating under a let's get all kindsa stuff up here and it's gonna be awesome! paradigm and now we need to restructure and look at these as real websites that happen to be guides. The v2 migration is a great time to do it. /ramble On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Brad Coffield bcoffield.libr...@gmail.com wrote: I also think all of these ideas are awesome. The idea of a third-party space, or even someplace sponsored by springshare, to share customizations etc. could help so many of us. Even short of developing a plug-in system, having someplace to share template customizations, CSS, etc. would be HUGE. Github seems like a very reasonable option though it's true the tech bar for admission is pretty high. It would be great if we had a place where those admins Cindi mentioned who aren't super tech-expert but do some customizations and would like to do more (and I would put myself in that group) could go to download custom templates, CSS mods to tweak etc.. Even if it was just screenshots and text files for download. Springshare's Best Of guide is really handy and has been useful to me in the past but I think what we're all talking about transcends the
