Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On 12/3/12 2:14 PM, MJ Ray wrote: This listserv looks threaded to me. Maybe you need to upgrade Thunderbird, although I could have sworn it's done threaded for a while now. I was thinking of something that has a Vote to Promote feature. I feel that it's important to give folks a chance to support ideas even if they don't have a lot to add comment-wise. It's a good way to gauge interest among folks who are not top talkers. The Vote to Promote pattern is designed as an unobtrusive, democratic way to show support for ideas and focus the discussion toward constructive commentary [1]. Interestingly enough, the RailsBridge curriculum project implements a simple version of this pattern as its core project[2]. I wonder if it would be a good starting point for a collaborative project? Everyone who takes the workshop will know how this app works and should be able to add to it in the months that follow the conference. One of the MIT Mentorship Program tips [3] recommends making sure mentors get something in return (that it's not all giving on the part of the mentor). Since, according to Jonathan, we have a paucity of volunteer coders, perhaps the RailsBridge app could be an ongoing github project and a way to enlist more volunteers to give back to Code4Lib. Mentees might be expected to contribute something after the workshop and get a feel for software collaboration on github with their mentors in a helpful environment? Whether or not people would use such a tool in addition to the listserv, I don't know. Vote to Promote requires a critical mass to make it worthwhile, but it's hard to gauge actual support without testing it. [1] http://ui-patterns.com/patterns/VoteToPromote [2] http://docs.railsbridge.org/curriculum/ [3] http://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.html Unless you do something pretty silly - like insisting everyone register with github Unfortunately, in order to collaborate on the anti-harrassment policy, you do need to have a github account, or lobby someone who does to make a change for you. But I think most would agree that's better than hashing out such details on this list. -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Or just use Reddit's OS codebase*. https://github.com/reddit Tom * though I'm personally hoping there won't be another channel to keep track of. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: On 12/3/12 2:14 PM, MJ Ray wrote: This listserv looks threaded to me. Maybe you need to upgrade Thunderbird, although I could have sworn it's done threaded for a while now. I was thinking of something that has a Vote to Promote feature. I feel that it's important to give folks a chance to support ideas even if they don't have a lot to add comment-wise. It's a good way to gauge interest among folks who are not top talkers. The Vote to Promote pattern is designed as an unobtrusive, democratic way to show support for ideas and focus the discussion toward constructive commentary [1]. Interestingly enough, the RailsBridge curriculum project implements a simple version of this pattern as its core project[2]. I wonder if it would be a good starting point for a collaborative project? Everyone who takes the workshop will know how this app works and should be able to add to it in the months that follow the conference. One of the MIT Mentorship Program tips [3] recommends making sure mentors get something in return (that it's not all giving on the part of the mentor). Since, according to Jonathan, we have a paucity of volunteer coders, perhaps the RailsBridge app could be an ongoing github project and a way to enlist more volunteers to give back to Code4Lib. Mentees might be expected to contribute something after the workshop and get a feel for software collaboration on github with their mentors in a helpful environment? Whether or not people would use such a tool in addition to the listserv, I don't know. Vote to Promote requires a critical mass to make it worthwhile, but it's hard to gauge actual support without testing it. [1] http://ui-patterns.com/**patterns/VoteToPromotehttp://ui-patterns.com/patterns/VoteToPromote [2] http://docs.railsbridge.org/**curriculum/http://docs.railsbridge.org/curriculum/ [3] http://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.**htmlhttp://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.html Unless you do something pretty silly - like insisting everyone register with github Unfortunately, in order to collaborate on the anti-harrassment policy, you do need to have a github account, or lobby someone who does to make a change for you. But I think most would agree that's better than hashing out such details on this list. -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Tom Keays tomke...@gmail.com wrote: Or just use Reddit's OS codebase*. https://github.com/reddit Unless you're volunteering to host and maintain this... Seriously, folks, if we can't even figure out how to upgrade our Drupal instance to a version that was released this decade, we shouldn't be discussing *new* implementations of *anything* that we have to host ourselves. -Ross. Tom * though I'm personally hoping there won't be another channel to keep track of. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: On 12/3/12 2:14 PM, MJ Ray wrote: This listserv looks threaded to me. Maybe you need to upgrade Thunderbird, although I could have sworn it's done threaded for a while now. I was thinking of something that has a Vote to Promote feature. I feel that it's important to give folks a chance to support ideas even if they don't have a lot to add comment-wise. It's a good way to gauge interest among folks who are not top talkers. The Vote to Promote pattern is designed as an unobtrusive, democratic way to show support for ideas and focus the discussion toward constructive commentary [1]. Interestingly enough, the RailsBridge curriculum project implements a simple version of this pattern as its core project[2]. I wonder if it would be a good starting point for a collaborative project? Everyone who takes the workshop will know how this app works and should be able to add to it in the months that follow the conference. One of the MIT Mentorship Program tips [3] recommends making sure mentors get something in return (that it's not all giving on the part of the mentor). Since, according to Jonathan, we have a paucity of volunteer coders, perhaps the RailsBridge app could be an ongoing github project and a way to enlist more volunteers to give back to Code4Lib. Mentees might be expected to contribute something after the workshop and get a feel for software collaboration on github with their mentors in a helpful environment? Whether or not people would use such a tool in addition to the listserv, I don't know. Vote to Promote requires a critical mass to make it worthwhile, but it's hard to gauge actual support without testing it. [1] http://ui-patterns.com/**patterns/VoteToPromotehttp://ui-patterns.com/patterns/VoteToPromote [2] http://docs.railsbridge.org/**curriculum/http://docs.railsbridge.org/curriculum/ [3] http://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.**htmlhttp://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.html Unless you do something pretty silly - like insisting everyone register with github Unfortunately, in order to collaborate on the anti-harrassment policy, you do need to have a github account, or lobby someone who does to make a change for you. But I think most would agree that's better than hashing out such details on this list. -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Okay, I will update Drupal. I was on track to do this last year, when I got hit on my bicycle by a hit-and-run driver. Really. Anyone here have a white vehicle with a me shaped dent in the hood? I will get with Ryan on this. Thanks for reminding me! (of the update, not the hit) Cary On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Tom Keays tomke...@gmail.com wrote: Or just use Reddit's OS codebase*. https://github.com/reddit Unless you're volunteering to host and maintain this... Seriously, folks, if we can't even figure out how to upgrade our Drupal instance to a version that was released this decade, we shouldn't be discussing *new* implementations of *anything* that we have to host ourselves. -Ross. Tom * though I'm personally hoping there won't be another channel to keep track of. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: On 12/3/12 2:14 PM, MJ Ray wrote: This listserv looks threaded to me. Maybe you need to upgrade Thunderbird, although I could have sworn it's done threaded for a while now. I was thinking of something that has a Vote to Promote feature. I feel that it's important to give folks a chance to support ideas even if they don't have a lot to add comment-wise. It's a good way to gauge interest among folks who are not top talkers. The Vote to Promote pattern is designed as an unobtrusive, democratic way to show support for ideas and focus the discussion toward constructive commentary [1]. Interestingly enough, the RailsBridge curriculum project implements a simple version of this pattern as its core project[2]. I wonder if it would be a good starting point for a collaborative project? Everyone who takes the workshop will know how this app works and should be able to add to it in the months that follow the conference. One of the MIT Mentorship Program tips [3] recommends making sure mentors get something in return (that it's not all giving on the part of the mentor). Since, according to Jonathan, we have a paucity of volunteer coders, perhaps the RailsBridge app could be an ongoing github project and a way to enlist more volunteers to give back to Code4Lib. Mentees might be expected to contribute something after the workshop and get a feel for software collaboration on github with their mentors in a helpful environment? Whether or not people would use such a tool in addition to the listserv, I don't know. Vote to Promote requires a critical mass to make it worthwhile, but it's hard to gauge actual support without testing it. [1] http://ui-patterns.com/**patterns/VoteToPromotehttp://ui-patterns.com/patterns/VoteToPromote [2] http://docs.railsbridge.org/**curriculum/http://docs.railsbridge.org/curriculum/ [3] http://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.**htmlhttp://mit.edu/uaap/prog_tips.html Unless you do something pretty silly - like insisting everyone register with github Unfortunately, in order to collaborate on the anti-harrassment policy, you do need to have a github account, or lobby someone who does to make a change for you. But I think most would agree that's better than hashing out such details on this list. -- Shaun D. Ellis Digital Library Interface Developer Firestone Library, Princeton University voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Cary Gordon listu...@chillco.com wrote: Anyone here have a white vehicle with a me shaped dent in the hood? Anyone here would have waited until _after_ you did the Drupal upgrade ;-) Kevin
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu On 12/3/12 2:14 PM, MJ Ray wrote: This listserv looks threaded to me. Maybe you need to upgrade Thunderbird, although I could have sworn it's done threaded for a while now. [...] Whether or not people would use such a tool in addition to the listserv, I don't know. Vote to Promote requires a critical mass to make it worthwhile, but it's hard to gauge actual support without testing it. Need it be in addition to the listserv? What prevents making a view of the list archives that adds a vote to promote features? I'm a bit suspicious of such a thing, as it sounds dangerously like it could easily become mob rule, Whuffie or another /. but give it a go if you like, if you can do it without detracting from the existing fora. (Not that my blessing matters.) Unless you do something pretty silly - like insisting everyone register with github Unfortunately, in order to collaborate on the anti-harrassment policy, you do need to have a github account, or lobby someone who does to make a change for you. Really? I hoped if I wanted to do serious hacking, I could clone it on git.software.coop and send a pull request. If you use github *and insist everyone else does* then you lose all the decentralised networked collaboration benefits of git and it becomes a worse-and-better CVS. But I think most would agree that's better than hashing out such details on this list. Maybe, but most haven't read the github terms of service :-( I don't want to get into a full list of its problems right now, but things like legal full name shouldn't be required. In the context of this discussion, won't that mean that most genders and some other minority attributes are going to be obvious and it'll discourage some people who mostly use abbreviated names, nicknames or pseudonyms to hide that? So use github if you want to, but can we keep the door open to collaboration from other git servers too, please? Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On 12/4/2012 12:10 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Really? I hoped if I wanted to do serious hacking, I could clone it on git.software.coop and send a pull request. If you use github *and insist everyone else does* then you lose all the decentralised networked collaboration benefits of git and it becomes a worse-and-better CVS. A pull request is a feature of github.com. There is no feature of git-the-software called a pull request. Which of course doens't stop you from sending an email requesting a pull. A pull, including from decentralized third party repos, is a feature of git. But yes, if you get used to the features of a particular free service, you get locked into that particular free service. This is certainly part of the overall cost/benefit of using free hosted services.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
What about the sadly underutilized LIS Stack Exchange site? I think it would be great for organizing answers to the kind of questions that come up here and making the responses findable later, plus a lot of us probably already have accounts on Stack Overflow. http://libraries.stackexchange.com/ Emily On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu wrote: On 12/4/2012 12:10 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Really? I hoped if I wanted to do serious hacking, I could clone it on git.software.coop and send a pull request. If you use github *and insist everyone else does* then you lose all the decentralised networked collaboration benefits of git and it becomes a worse-and-better CVS. A pull request is a feature of github.com. There is no feature of git-the-software called a pull request. Which of course doens't stop you from sending an email requesting a pull. A pull, including from decentralized third party repos, is a feature of git. But yes, if you get used to the features of a particular free service, you get locked into that particular free service. This is certainly part of the overall cost/benefit of using free hosted services.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu On 12/4/2012 12:10 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Really? I hoped if I wanted to do serious hacking, I could clone it on git.software.coop and send a pull request. If you use github *and insist everyone else does* then you lose all the decentralised networked collaboration benefits of git and it becomes a worse-and-better CVS. A pull request is a feature of github.com. There is no feature of git-the-software called a pull request. I don't think that's correct. GitHub was only launched in April 2008, but here's a pull request from 2005: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0507.3/0869.html Here's the start of the relevant page in the git software manual: [quote] NAME git-request-pull - Generates a summary of pending changes SYNOPSIS git request-pull [-p] start url [end] DESCRIPTION Summarizes the changes between two commits to the standard output, and includes the given URL in the generated summary. [/quote] Which of course doens't stop you from sending an email requesting a pull. A pull, including from decentralized third party repos, is a feature of git. It sucks that github doesn't accept emails of such git pull requests and do anything useful with them. Ignoring the huge potential of email coordination seems like missing a big feature of git. But yes, if you get used to the features of a particular free service, you get locked into that particular free service. [...] If one is locked in, that means it has an exit cost, so it's no longer a free service. The piper might just not need payment yet. Hope that explains, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Okay, I guess that is a feature. It generates a plain text file you can send to someone else via email; the person can respond by taking manual action on their git command line. Definitely not the github pull requests people are used to. On 12/4/2012 1:16 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Jonathan Rochkind rochk...@jhu.edu On 12/4/2012 12:10 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Really? I hoped if I wanted to do serious hacking, I could clone it on git.software.coop and send a pull request. If you use github *and insist everyone else does* then you lose all the decentralised networked collaboration benefits of git and it becomes a worse-and-better CVS. A pull request is a feature of github.com. There is no feature of git-the-software called a pull request. I don't think that's correct. GitHub was only launched in April 2008, but here's a pull request from 2005: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0507.3/0869.html Here's the start of the relevant page in the git software manual: [quote] NAME git-request-pull - Generates a summary of pending changes SYNOPSIS git request-pull [-p] start url [end] DESCRIPTION Summarizes the changes between two commits to the standard output, and includes the given URL in the generated summary. [/quote] Which of course doens't stop you from sending an email requesting a pull. A pull, including from decentralized third party repos, is a feature of git. It sucks that github doesn't accept emails of such git pull requests and do anything useful with them. Ignoring the huge potential of email coordination seems like missing a big feature of git. But yes, if you get used to the features of a particular free service, you get locked into that particular free service. [...] If one is locked in, that means it has an exit cost, so it's no longer a free service. The piper might just not need payment yet. Hope that explains,
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
I want to thank Karen and Wilhelmina especially for continuing this discussion. I've never attended a Code4Lib (though I did once offer to help organize one in Austin). This conversation is making me more willing to spend my own money to attend one. Danielle Cunniff Plumer On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Esmé Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu wrote: I think this raises some interesting questions about community and appropriate use of the code4lib name. I just took a look at the code4lib reddit and there were comments from a handful of people. If a handful of people want to create some new channel and call it code4lib, is that OK? Who decides that? Does it matter if it's part of something like reddit, that is seriously at odds with our budding anti-harassment policy? I don't personally use reddit, but I can see the advantages of a threaded discussion system, especially for a wide-ranging and branching discussion such as this one. Slashdot is the other full-featured discussion system I know, but (as previously mentioned) has similar problems, and would also create a new hosting and maintenance burden. Is there a better alternative? -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true. -- Robert Wilensky On 12/2/2012, at 3:19 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke rand...@gmail.com wrote: At the end of this email, is the current default homepage of Reddit at this very moment. I only had to read down to the current 6th most popular post - 6th most popular of the ENTIRE REDDIT SITE - which is a man's reference to seeing a highschool classmate on Girls Gone Wild, then masturbating such that one arm becomes much bigger than the other (person posted a picture of Quagmire from Family Guy with one big arm). I'm sure the front page will have changed by the time you read this, but just read down and find the example of the moment. There will be one. Women as sex objects isn't a fringe thing on Reddit. It's a core part of the service. Reddit's got lots of porn forums, with 5 digits of users. Sexual images of women is not a fringe activity on Reddit. It's a core service. Racism is also prevalent. For example, http://www.reddit.com/r/niggers/ . At least there are only 4 digits of users, so dedicated racist forums is a fringe activity. But, why is there a dedicated forum at all? It's inappropriate to try and move drafting of an antidiscrimination policy to Reddit, alongside forums which are so hateful to the groups which are underrepresented in Code4Lib. -Wilhelmina Randtke Begin Clip of Current default Front page of Reddit --- Item number 6 refers to masturbating over a female high school classmate - 1 2572 Taiwan engineers defeat limits of flash memoryhttp://phys.org/news/2012-12-taiwan-defeat-limits-memory.html (phys.org http://www.reddit.com/domain/phys.org/) submitted 4 hours ago by Maslo55 http://www.reddit.com/user/Maslo55 to technology http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/ - 565 comments http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145h0c/taiwan_engineers_defeat_limits_of_flash_memory/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 2 2503 I'm not sure how to title this http://i.imgur.com/kZBrW.png ( i.imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/) submitted 3 hours ago by wow050 http://www.reddit.com/user/wow050 to WTFhttp://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/ - 343 comments http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/145imx/im_not_sure_how_to_title_this/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 3 1768 http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg On a metro bus http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg (i.imgur.comhttp://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/ ) submitted 3 hours ago by jjameson18 http://www.reddit.com/user/jjameson18to atheism http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/ - 251 comments http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/145ktv/on_a_metro_bus/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 4 1828 http://imgur.com/E4KYV Back in my day we had to work for our games http://imgur.com/E4KYV ( imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/imgur.com/) submitted 4 hours ago by MouthFullOfPubeshttp://www.reddit.com/user/MouthFullOfPubesto gaming http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/ - 166 comments http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/145h3h/back_in_my_day_we_had_to_work_for_our_games/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 5 1950 http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 When ever I have to get up and mow the lawn http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 (qkme.me http://www.reddit.com/domain/qkme.me/) submitted 4 hours ago by flabeachbum http://www.reddit.com/user/flabeachbumto AdviceAnimals http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/ - 200 comments
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
Reddit tends to be a pretty segmented place, there are many subreddits that exist, IMO, as more or less 'culturally autonomous' from the rest of the reddit, with little interaction with other parts of reddit. Just people taking advantage of reddit to do their own thing. Reddit's UI makes it easy for these subreddits to stay completely separate, there's really little in the UI that brings people from one area of reddit to another or makes them end up 'combined'. I believe that there are many sub-communities on reddit that do not have this misogyny problem, even if reddit's brand has sadly become known for misogyny. I could be wrong, but I'd suggest finding out by asking friends of yours that are redditors (or finding out if friends of yours are redditors, heh), rather than assuming based on media reports that anything on reddit is doomed. Mainstream media is not very good at covering virtual communities, even still. That said, I still don't think a Code4Lib subreddit is likely to become a particularly useful idea, I think it's unlikely to ever achieve 'critical mass' (It has been tried before, there's both a code4lib and a libraries subreddit that have existed for quite a while without significant uptake, aren't there?) On 12/2/2012 1:44 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit: Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=false are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular thread that asked recently, Why is Reddit so anti-women? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/ In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/. Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim for overreacting http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice. Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum for effective dialogue.[1] Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but it is good to know the make-up and culture of tools that you use. And I think I have yet to find a thread on ANY TOPIC on slashdot that doesn't have the word tits in it somewhere. I just read the post about the possible move to a $1 coin in the US, and the first post is about strippers. FIRST POST. *sigh* Although perhaps the question now is: which will happen first - acceptance of a $1 coin in the US or a Slashdot thread that isn't sexist? kc [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_1714854.html On 11/30/12 9:51 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote: Mark and Karen, yes, the DIY and take-initiative ethos of Code4Lib leads to a lot of channels. I think this is a good thing as each has its strengths. But it creates chaos without more clarity on what platforms are best for certain types of communication? We have similar issues when it comes to our own internal documentation attempts at Princeton. Wiki? Git? Git Wiki? IRC? Blogosphere? Reddit? Listserv? Twitter? Why should I use any of them?!? I will say that I like Reddit for potentially controversial or philosophical discussions. It's built to keep the conversation on track and reward the most insightful/best comments with more visibility. So, anyway, I've posted this discussion on the subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_of_code4lib/ I also added a post on mentorship to the subreddit, since I'm particularly interested in that. Karen, while I think your comments on promotion and giving credit are important, I'm not sure how they are related to mentorship. Would love to hear more about that in the subreddit. -Shaun On 11/30/12 12:30 PM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Wow. We could not have gotten a better follow-up to our long thread about coders and non-coders. I don't git. I've used it to read code, but never contributed. I even downloaded a gui with a cute icon that is supposed to make it easy, and it still is going to take some learning. So I'm afraid that it either needs to be on a different platform for editing, OR someone (you know, the famed someone) is going to have to do updates for us non-gitters. Karen, I've added instructions about how to add contributions without knowing Git to the README file: https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/README.md If you'd like, I'm happy to have feedback as to changes here. A small handful of people have also asked if we could move
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On 12/2/2012 9:19 PM, Esmé Cowles wrote: I think this raises some interesting questions about community and appropriate use of the code4lib name. I just took a look at the code4lib reddit and there were comments from a handful of people. If a handful of people want to create some new channel and call it code4lib, is that OK? It always has been up to now, it's how every single part of code4lib was created. So it's how we got here. Who decides that? That handful of people do. Does it matter if it's part of something like reddit, that is seriously at odds with our budding anti-harassment policy? I think it's far from clear that a code4lib subreddit is inherently at odds with an anti-harrasment policy (OR more importantly, at odds with our desire to be a comfortable place for all sorts of people including people from disadvantaged groups, which is more important than any particular policy). But of course not everyone will agree on this, perhaps I am wrong. I'd suggest that if you think someone is doing is something with the code4lib name you find harmful to code4lib, you bring it up with them, either in private or in public, whatever you prefer. I think it's more productive to discuss this in concrete than in abstract. I don't think we need some general policy or beucrocracy on who can use the code4lib name, we've never had one before. But instead of that, what we have is the ability to discuss _any particular use_ that people don't like -- so if you don't like the group on reddit, let's talk about THAT, specifically. If the general consensus seems to be that there shouldn't be a code4lib reddit area, then I suspect the people who created it will get rid of it. That's always happened before. If they don't, then the community can decide what we should do to distance that from code4lib (which we'd have to do anyway with non-compliant folks even if we had a policy and beurocracy over who was allowed to use the name). So if this is not just hypothetical but you actually are concerned about it, please do bring it up in a separate thread on the list, or start by contacting the folks who created the reddit thing off-list, whatever you prefer.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
I'm not particularly sold on Reddit. I just think that there are some types of discussions that might be more constructive with a threaded forum than a listserv, just like there are some types of communication that are more suited to IRC or the wiki. In line with Jonathan's comments, we're not going to stop using YouTube just because it's filled with trolls, right? I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't require too much maintenance. Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :) -Shaun On 12/3/12 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: Reddit tends to be a pretty segmented place, there are many subreddits that exist, IMO, as more or less 'culturally autonomous' from the rest of the reddit, with little interaction with other parts of reddit. Just people taking advantage of reddit to do their own thing. Reddit's UI makes it easy for these subreddits to stay completely separate, there's really little in the UI that brings people from one area of reddit to another or makes them end up 'combined'. I believe that there are many sub-communities on reddit that do not have this misogyny problem, even if reddit's brand has sadly become known for misogyny. I could be wrong, but I'd suggest finding out by asking friends of yours that are redditors (or finding out if friends of yours are redditors, heh), rather than assuming based on media reports that anything on reddit is doomed. Mainstream media is not very good at covering virtual communities, even still. That said, I still don't think a Code4Lib subreddit is likely to become a particularly useful idea, I think it's unlikely to ever achieve 'critical mass' (It has been tried before, there's both a code4lib and a libraries subreddit that have existed for quite a while without significant uptake, aren't there?) On 12/2/2012 1:44 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit: Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=false are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular thread that asked recently, Why is Reddit so anti-women? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/ In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/. Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim for overreacting http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice. Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum for effective dialogue.[1] Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but it is good to know the make-up and culture of tools that you use. And I think I have yet to find a thread on ANY TOPIC on slashdot that doesn't have the word tits in it somewhere. I just read the post about the possible move to a $1 coin in the US, and the first post is about strippers. FIRST POST. *sigh* Although perhaps the question now is: which will happen first - acceptance of a $1 coin in the US or a Slashdot thread that isn't sexist? kc [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_1714854.html On 11/30/12 9:51 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote: Mark and Karen, yes, the DIY and take-initiative ethos of Code4Lib leads to a lot of channels. I think this is a good thing as each has its strengths. But it creates chaos without more clarity on what platforms are best for certain types of communication? We have similar issues when it comes to our own internal documentation attempts at Princeton. Wiki? Git? Git Wiki? IRC? Blogosphere? Reddit? Listserv? Twitter? Why should I use any of them?!? I will say that I like Reddit for potentially controversial or philosophical discussions. It's built to keep the conversation on track and reward the most insightful/best comments with more visibility. So, anyway, I've posted this discussion on the subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_of_code4lib/ I also added a post on mentorship to the subreddit, since I'm particularly interested in that. Karen, while I think your comments on promotion and giving credit are important, I'm not sure how they are related to mentorship. Would love to hear more about that in the subreddit. -Shaun On 11/30/12 12:30 PM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Wow. We could not have gotten a
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
I don't think running one's own Hacker News OR Reddit is a particularly sustainable thing to do. I say as someone who's looked into both, for daydreams of improving the planet.code4lib stuff. They're both fairly complicated codebases, with multiple components that need to be installed, and not a lot of documentation (as they are mainly developed for their patrons, they code is made available open source, but is not really documented/supported for other people). Really, I don't think running virtually ANY software of our own for 'code4lib' is particularly sustainable, we're already having trouble sufficiently maintaining what we've already got; this stuff ends up being a lot more work than expected to maintain, and after the initial novelty of implementing a new thing! wears off (if not before :) ), difficult to find volunteer labor to maintain. Especially without knowing if people are going to use the thing anyway. If there's a free service that already does what you want, why not just use it, and see if it catches on? Well, in this case because some people are objecting to www.reddit.com as a service, I guess. Personally, I think those objects are at least in part mis-placed, reddit is just a big place where lots of stuff happens (like youtube, or the internet): check out for instance http://www.reddit.com/r/feminism http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender ). But maybe I'm wrong on this. Either way though, I kind of suspect nobody would be using a /r/Code4Lib anyway, honestly. On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong about that too, I just went to look up the 'libraries' reddit some folks created a while ago to show that it didn't get much use -- but found it actually IS getting some use! http://www.reddit.com/r/libraries On 12/3/2012 11:34 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote: I'm not particularly sold on Reddit. I just think that there are some types of discussions that might be more constructive with a threaded forum than a listserv, just like there are some types of communication that are more suited to IRC or the wiki. In line with Jonathan's comments, we're not going to stop using YouTube just because it's filled with trolls, right? I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't require too much maintenance. Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :) -Shaun On 12/3/12 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: Reddit tends to be a pretty segmented place, there are many subreddits that exist, IMO, as more or less 'culturally autonomous' from the rest of the reddit, with little interaction with other parts of reddit. Just people taking advantage of reddit to do their own thing. Reddit's UI makes it easy for these subreddits to stay completely separate, there's really little in the UI that brings people from one area of reddit to another or makes them end up 'combined'. I believe that there are many sub-communities on reddit that do not have this misogyny problem, even if reddit's brand has sadly become known for misogyny. I could be wrong, but I'd suggest finding out by asking friends of yours that are redditors (or finding out if friends of yours are redditors, heh), rather than assuming based on media reports that anything on reddit is doomed. Mainstream media is not very good at covering virtual communities, even still. That said, I still don't think a Code4Lib subreddit is likely to become a particularly useful idea, I think it's unlikely to ever achieve 'critical mass' (It has been tried before, there's both a code4lib and a libraries subreddit that have existed for quite a while without significant uptake, aren't there?) On 12/2/2012 1:44 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit: Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=false are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular thread that asked recently, Why is Reddit so anti-women? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/ In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/. Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim for overreacting http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice. Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum for effective dialogue.[1] Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't require too much maintenance. Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :) For what it's worth, https://lobste.rs (an improved, invite-only Hacker News-clone) has its source up on Github - it's a Rails app: https://github.com/jcs/lobsters Mark
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
What about Google Wave? Oh, wait -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark A. Matienzo Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 11:44 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't require too much maintenance. Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :) For what it's worth, https://lobste.rs (an improved, invite-only Hacker News-clone) has its source up on Github - it's a Rails app: https://github.com/jcs/lobsters Mark
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
We could start several listservs? Oh waitŠ ;) On 12/3/12 8:52 AM, Michael Schofield mschofi...@nova.edu wrote: What about Google Wave? Oh, wait -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark A. Matienzo Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 11:44 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Shaun Ellis sha...@princeton.edu wrote: I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't require too much maintenance. Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :) For what it's worth, https://lobste.rs (an improved, invite-only Hacker News-clone) has its source up on Github - it's a Rails app: https://github.com/jcs/lobsters Mark
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
On 12/3/12 8:23 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: I believe that there are many sub-communities on reddit that do not have this misogyny problem, even if reddit's brand has sadly become known for misogyny. I could be wrong, but I'd suggest finding out by asking friends of yours that are redditors (or finding out if friends of yours are redditors, heh), rather than assuming based on media reports that anything on reddit is doomed. Mainstream media is not very good at covering virtual communities, even still. Jonathan, this is one of those areas where I expect that women and men will make different decisions, and those decisions will affect the quality and diversity of participation. I think of it as the dark alley syndrome: it doesn't matter if the dark alley in front of you *might* be safe; it's still a very scary place. I wouldn't expect women to go onto a service with a bad reputation, with the option to leave after something horrible happens to them. That wouldn't make any more sense than going into the dark alley, and leaving after you've been mugged. I wouldn't ask or advise any of my friends to enter dark alleys. I don't think it's worth the risk, even if the risk is relatively low. kc That said, I still don't think a Code4Lib subreddit is likely to become a particularly useful idea, I think it's unlikely to ever achieve 'critical mass' (It has been tried before, there's both a code4lib and a libraries subreddit that have existed for quite a while without significant uptake, aren't there?) On 12/2/2012 1:44 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit: Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=false are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular thread that asked recently, Why is Reddit so anti-women? http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/ In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/. Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim for overreacting http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice. Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum for effective dialogue.[1] Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but it is good to know the make-up and culture of tools that you use. And I think I have yet to find a thread on ANY TOPIC on slashdot that doesn't have the word tits in it somewhere. I just read the post about the possible move to a $1 coin in the US, and the first post is about strippers. FIRST POST. *sigh* Although perhaps the question now is: which will happen first - acceptance of a $1 coin in the US or a Slashdot thread that isn't sexist? kc [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_1714854.html On 11/30/12 9:51 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote: Mark and Karen, yes, the DIY and take-initiative ethos of Code4Lib leads to a lot of channels. I think this is a good thing as each has its strengths. But it creates chaos without more clarity on what platforms are best for certain types of communication? We have similar issues when it comes to our own internal documentation attempts at Princeton. Wiki? Git? Git Wiki? IRC? Blogosphere? Reddit? Listserv? Twitter? Why should I use any of them?!? I will say that I like Reddit for potentially controversial or philosophical discussions. It's built to keep the conversation on track and reward the most insightful/best comments with more visibility. So, anyway, I've posted this discussion on the subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_of_code4lib/ I also added a post on mentorship to the subreddit, since I'm particularly interested in that. Karen, while I think your comments on promotion and giving credit are important, I'm not sure how they are related to mentorship. Would love to hear more about that in the subreddit. -Shaun On 11/30/12 12:30 PM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Wow. We could not have gotten a better follow-up to our long thread about coders and non-coders. I don't git. I've used it to read code, but never contributed. I even downloaded a gui with a cute icon that is supposed to make it easy, and it still is going to take some learning. So I'm afraid that it either needs to be on a different platform for editing, OR someone (you know, the famed someone) is going to have to do updates for us
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
At the end of this email, is the current default homepage of Reddit at this very moment. I only had to read down to the current 6th most popular post - 6th most popular of the ENTIRE REDDIT SITE - which is a man's reference to seeing a highschool classmate on Girls Gone Wild, then masturbating such that one arm becomes much bigger than the other (person posted a picture of Quagmire from Family Guy with one big arm). I'm sure the front page will have changed by the time you read this, but just read down and find the example of the moment. There will be one. Women as sex objects isn't a fringe thing on Reddit. It's a core part of the service. Reddit's got lots of porn forums, with 5 digits of users. Sexual images of women is not a fringe activity on Reddit. It's a core service. Racism is also prevalent. For example, http://www.reddit.com/r/niggers/ . At least there are only 4 digits of users, so dedicated racist forums is a fringe activity. But, why is there a dedicated forum at all? It's inappropriate to try and move drafting of an antidiscrimination policy to Reddit, alongside forums which are so hateful to the groups which are underrepresented in Code4Lib. -Wilhelmina Randtke Begin Clip of Current default Front page of Reddit --- Item number 6 refers to masturbating over a female high school classmate - 1 2572 Taiwan engineers defeat limits of flash memoryhttp://phys.org/news/2012-12-taiwan-defeat-limits-memory.html (phys.org http://www.reddit.com/domain/phys.org/) submitted 4 hours ago by Maslo55 http://www.reddit.com/user/Maslo55 to technology http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/ - 565 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145h0c/taiwan_engineers_defeat_limits_of_flash_memory/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 2 2503 I'm not sure how to title this http://i.imgur.com/kZBrW.png ( i.imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/) submitted 3 hours ago by wow050 http://www.reddit.com/user/wow050 to WTFhttp://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/ - 343 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/145imx/im_not_sure_how_to_title_this/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 3 1768 http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg On a metro bus http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg (i.imgur.comhttp://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/ ) submitted 3 hours ago by jjameson18 http://www.reddit.com/user/jjameson18to atheism http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/ - 251 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/145ktv/on_a_metro_bus/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 4 1828 http://imgur.com/E4KYV Back in my day we had to work for our games http://imgur.com/E4KYV ( imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/imgur.com/) submitted 4 hours ago by MouthFullOfPubeshttp://www.reddit.com/user/MouthFullOfPubesto gaming http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/ - 166 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/145h3h/back_in_my_day_we_had_to_work_for_our_games/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 5 1950 http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 When ever I have to get up and mow the lawnhttp://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 (qkme.me http://www.reddit.com/domain/qkme.me/) submitted 4 hours ago by flabeachbumhttp://www.reddit.com/user/flabeachbumto AdviceAnimals http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/ - 200 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/145har/when_ever_i_have_to_get_up_and_mow_the_lawn/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 6 1657 After finding my old highschool crush on /r/gonewild last night... This is exactly how I'm felling this morning. http://i.imgur.com/Tz3uE.jpg ( i.imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/) submitted 5 hours ago by DaPolishFarmerhttp://www.reddit.com/user/DaPolishFarmerto funny http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/ - 475 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/145fvw/after_finding_my_old_highschool_crush_on/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# --End Reddit clip--- On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit: Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. https://www.google.com/* *adplanner/site_profile#**siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%** 2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=**falsehttps://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.comgeo=001lp=false are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular thread that asked recently, Why is Reddit so anti-women? http://www.reddit.com/r/**AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_** is_reddit_so_antiwomen_**outside_of_rgonewild/http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/ In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted http://www.reddit.com/r/**AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_**
Re: [CODE4LIB] Choosing fora. was: Proliferation of Code4Lib Channels
I think this raises some interesting questions about community and appropriate use of the code4lib name. I just took a look at the code4lib reddit and there were comments from a handful of people. If a handful of people want to create some new channel and call it code4lib, is that OK? Who decides that? Does it matter if it's part of something like reddit, that is seriously at odds with our budding anti-harassment policy? I don't personally use reddit, but I can see the advantages of a threaded discussion system, especially for a wide-ranging and branching discussion such as this one. Slashdot is the other full-featured discussion system I know, but (as previously mentioned) has similar problems, and would also create a new hosting and maintenance burden. Is there a better alternative? -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true. -- Robert Wilensky On 12/2/2012, at 3:19 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke rand...@gmail.com wrote: At the end of this email, is the current default homepage of Reddit at this very moment. I only had to read down to the current 6th most popular post - 6th most popular of the ENTIRE REDDIT SITE - which is a man's reference to seeing a highschool classmate on Girls Gone Wild, then masturbating such that one arm becomes much bigger than the other (person posted a picture of Quagmire from Family Guy with one big arm). I'm sure the front page will have changed by the time you read this, but just read down and find the example of the moment. There will be one. Women as sex objects isn't a fringe thing on Reddit. It's a core part of the service. Reddit's got lots of porn forums, with 5 digits of users. Sexual images of women is not a fringe activity on Reddit. It's a core service. Racism is also prevalent. For example, http://www.reddit.com/r/niggers/ . At least there are only 4 digits of users, so dedicated racist forums is a fringe activity. But, why is there a dedicated forum at all? It's inappropriate to try and move drafting of an antidiscrimination policy to Reddit, alongside forums which are so hateful to the groups which are underrepresented in Code4Lib. -Wilhelmina Randtke Begin Clip of Current default Front page of Reddit --- Item number 6 refers to masturbating over a female high school classmate - 1 2572 Taiwan engineers defeat limits of flash memoryhttp://phys.org/news/2012-12-taiwan-defeat-limits-memory.html (phys.org http://www.reddit.com/domain/phys.org/) submitted 4 hours ago by Maslo55 http://www.reddit.com/user/Maslo55 to technology http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/ - 565 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145h0c/taiwan_engineers_defeat_limits_of_flash_memory/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 2 2503 I'm not sure how to title this http://i.imgur.com/kZBrW.png ( i.imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/) submitted 3 hours ago by wow050 http://www.reddit.com/user/wow050 to WTFhttp://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/ - 343 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/145imx/im_not_sure_how_to_title_this/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 3 1768 http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg On a metro bus http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg (i.imgur.comhttp://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/ ) submitted 3 hours ago by jjameson18 http://www.reddit.com/user/jjameson18to atheism http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/ - 251 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/145ktv/on_a_metro_bus/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 4 1828 http://imgur.com/E4KYV Back in my day we had to work for our games http://imgur.com/E4KYV ( imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/imgur.com/) submitted 4 hours ago by MouthFullOfPubeshttp://www.reddit.com/user/MouthFullOfPubesto gaming http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/ - 166 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/145h3h/back_in_my_day_we_had_to_work_for_our_games/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 5 1950 http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 When ever I have to get up and mow the lawnhttp://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273 (qkme.me http://www.reddit.com/domain/qkme.me/) submitted 4 hours ago by flabeachbumhttp://www.reddit.com/user/flabeachbumto AdviceAnimals http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/ - 200 commentshttp://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/145har/when_ever_i_have_to_get_up_and_mow_the_lawn/ - share http://www.reddit.com/# 6 1657 After finding my old highschool crush on /r/gonewild last night... This is exactly how I'm felling this morning. http://i.imgur.com/Tz3uE.jpg ( i.imgur.com http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/) submitted 5 hours ago by DaPolishFarmerhttp://www.reddit.com/user/DaPolishFarmerto funny http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/ - 475
