[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14195028#comment-14195028 ] Dave Cunningham commented on CASSANDRA-2356: As a new user this confused the hell out of me. Not auto-starting in Debian is a good start. It would also be good if Cassandra gave more useful error messages when nodes come together after being started on their own. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Michael Shuler Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 3.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14195068#comment-14195068 ] Michael Shuler commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- [~sparkprime] with regards to node join messages, please open a new ticket for that request, including the actions you performed, the existing messages, and desired additions or changes. This ticket is only about not starting deb installs by default. :) make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Michael Shuler Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 3.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14191067#comment-14191067 ] Al Tobey commented on CASSANDRA-2356: - Just about every operations / devops person I know dislikes the Debian policy for auto-starting and would rather services do not start on install. It is compounded for us because a fresh install will get system tables initialized with a cluster name that is likely not useful, so not only do users have to stop the process, they also have to clean up the system tables. BTW we don't have to add anything to /etc/default/cassandra to work around this. You can simply echo 'exit 0' /etc/default/cassandra and it will do the same thing as long as shell-based init scripts are in play. My preference is for disabling auto-start completely. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Michael Shuler Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 3.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14043657#comment-14043657 ] Michael Shuler commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- I assigned this to myself to look into the patch for inclusion. I agree that /etc/default/cassandra ENABLED=0 is a fine and very typical way to prevent service startup on a fresh install, as well as allowing users to set 1 if they want the service to restart on boot or upgrade. Allowing users to set ENABLED=0 prior to package upgrade so they can merge config changes before starting the service back up seems helpful. As for adding in the complexity of if upgrade, then set ENABLED=1 - I'm not sure how that might be used by other packages that use /etc/default in a new version - is the error message enough? I sort of think it is sufficient - I always look to see if the service started up after upgrade, since I'm right there upgrading the package. Or perhaps should this be added to 2.1.0+ with some documentation on this feature going forward? make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Michael Shuler Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.2#6252)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14042823#comment-14042823 ] Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- [~mshuler]? make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Michael Shuler Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.2#6252)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13920650#comment-13920650 ] Duncan Sands commented on CASSANDRA-2356: - Many Debian packages use the /etc/default/cassandra scheme suggested by Brandon Williams. Simple, standard - sounds good to me! I don't understand why it was rejected. For new installs it should clearly contain ENABLED=false; for people upgrading, the upgrade script would have to create this file if it didn't exist already with ENABLED=true, to preserve the previous behaviour. Another point that came up on IRC is that shutting down a C* instance using the init scripts doesn't first drain the node. As a result you get to replay all the commit logs when you start it up again - this can take a long time. So draining the node before shutdown (including restart) can be a big win. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.2#6252)
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13755147#comment-13755147 ] Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- bq. if it's simple to disable auto-restart during upgrade (and only then) with a simple message to indicate the service needs to be started manually, this would seems like a good enough solution to me. +1 make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13723192#comment-13723192 ] Ishaaq Chandy commented on CASSANDRA-2356: -- I agree that it's detrimental to allow the package to restart cassandra on upgrades - when, more often than not, on a version upgrade there is quite often some critical post-install configuration work that needs to be done before we can safely restart cassandra. The default mechanism of restarting cassandra is quite dangerous in these instances. FWIW: we use http://people.debian.org/~hmh/invokerc.d-policyrc.d-specification.txt to explicitly control this, so the package cannot restart cassandra during upgrades, normal restarts (during reboots for e.g.) continue to work as advertised. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13723299#comment-13723299 ] Aaron Levy commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- I would also really like to be able to control restarts on upgrades. I get that auto-start is the debian way, but it causes a fair amount of ops pain. It also isn't clear if the debconf approach (CASSANDRA-2703) would give any control over the service auto-starting on upgrade (which I would love to have). Exposing this through an /etc/default flag seems like a simple and commonly used (albeit slightly sloppy) way of handling this. If the flag defaults to true, then both new/existing installs would have no functional change, but we would at least have the option to easily control the service restarts without resorting to other debian internals. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13640892#comment-13640892 ] Arthur Zubarev commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- I would really like to control the restart aspect. Thing is I have an admin who is not Cassandra savvy she can update all the packages and then Cassanrda would restart w/o us even knowing and that will compromise the application availability. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13532819#comment-13532819 ] Rick Branson commented on CASSANDRA-2356: - FWIW, we disable automatic starts for every persistence-related daemon in production. Anecdotally, most people I respect in operations have a philosophy along these lines. I think perhaps reboots are more up for discussion, but if I dpkg -i cassandra.deb, I don't want it to start. There is no case I can think of where a .deb for a service like Cassandra does not involve additional configuration before it's safe to boot. Even state-free stuff is risky: for instance, if we bring up a brand new web server on a reused IP before it's been completely configured, if the IP was not removed from the upstream load balancer before this was the case, it might begin to answer requests before it was ready to go. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13501723#comment-13501723 ] Tamar Fraenkel commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- I would also like that fix. The auto restart is a pain after upgrading, since I need to merge my cassandra.yaml and cassander-env.sh, and don't want the node to restart on its own. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13290933#comment-13290933
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Eric Evans commented on CASSANDRA-2356:
---
{quote}
1) node A has token X
2) node A dies and the OS crashes
3) node A is replaced by node B, also at token X (say by restoring a full
snapshot)
4) node A is rebooted (say as part of RMA process)
5) cluster accepts node A as the rightful owner of token X, because it has a
later generation number by virtue of having been more recently started
6) you have a two nodes which contain the same but desychronized dataset, at
the same token, and no straightforward way to unify them
{quote}
The best way to deal with a situation like this is to make Cassandra do the
Right Thing. Barring that, you could hack the init script to check for this
condition and make startup a noop (or error), which would work even if someone
had overridden the start policy.
For what it's worth, I remember running across code recently that I think would
safeguard against this; Is this a failure scenario that you've tested against
recent versions?
bq. Are there any circumstances where auto-starting, esp. on packaged install
or upgrade, is actually desirable?
This is considered configuration, and with any configuration all you can do is
provide a reasonable default, something that will work for most of the people,
most of the time. Starting a service by default is generally considered The
Way[*] on Debian systems, (and hence the least surprising choice for our Debian
package).
[*] The oft stated reason being that if the user didn't want the service
running, they wouldn't have installed it.
make the debian package never start by default
--
Key: CASSANDRA-2356
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356
Project: Cassandra
Issue Type: Improvement
Components: Packaging
Reporter: Jeremy Hanna
Priority: Minor
Labels: debian, packaging
Attachments: 2356.txt
Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by
default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention.
However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before
it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that
the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and
such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure
cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That
makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet
install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start.
With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup
that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the
process of installing turns into:
* install debian package
* shutdown cassandra
* clean out state (data/log dirs)
* configure cassandra
* start cassandra
That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to
automate new nodes being bootstrapped.
Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default
and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly
bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him
explain it in the comments.
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[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13291209#comment-13291209 ] paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-2356: Robert, are you proposing not having the Cassandra service automatically start, even on boot? That seems like it would run counter to the interests of most users. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13290598#comment-13290598 ] Robert Coli commented on CASSANDRA-2356: ( though I know this ticket is resolved WONTFIX, I came across this ticket and saw jeromatron say : Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. I believe I was probably supposed to comment on this ticket in 2011 and didn't... ) I think that configuring Cassandra to auto-start under any circumstances should be considered harmful, because of this case : 1) node A has token X 2) node A dies and the OS crashes 3) node A is replaced by node B, also at token X (say by restoring a full snapshot) 4) node A is rebooted (say as part of RMA process) 5) cluster accepts node A as the rightful owner of token X, because it has a later generation number by virtue of having been more recently started 6) you have a two nodes which contain the same but desychronized dataset, at the same token, and no straightforward way to unify them Are there any circumstances where auto-starting, esp. on packaged install or upgrade, is actually desirable? make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038652#comment-13038652 ] Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- Agreed that it doesn't matter for power user. For new user autostart is distinctly less friendly because of cluster name and other state. So +1 no autostart from me. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Brandon Williams Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 0.8.0 Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038759#comment-13038759 ] paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-2356: this works, but it could cause minor headaches for upgraders- users upgrading from a lower version may suddenly find that their cassandra no longer automatically starts on boot, and users upgrading from this version to a higher one will be more likely to have to resolve config-file conflicts, since they will have modified a config file that's somewhat likely to have upstream changes over time. how about touch /etc/cassandra/enabled to enable automatic startup of Cassandra ? make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Brandon Williams Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 0.8.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038835#comment-13038835 ] Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- can it start-on-boot just not start-after-install? make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Brandon Williams Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 0.8.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038849#comment-13038849 ] paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-2356: Yes, and that's simpler to accomplish, it's just potentially bewildering for the small number of people who inadvertently reboot between installation and configuration. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Brandon Williams Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 0.8.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038853#comment-13038853 ] Brandon Williams commented on CASSANDRA-2356: - I think that's even more surprising behavior. After talking with Paul about it, we decided to make it automagical with debconf, but push this to 1.0 make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: Brandon Williams Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 0.8.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038854#comment-13038854 ] paul cannon commented on CASSANDRA-2356: Oh I'm still fine with putting this in as a stopgap. make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Assignee: paul cannon Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Fix For: 1.0 Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
[jira] [Commented] (CASSANDRA-2356) make the debian package never start by default
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=13038857#comment-13038857 ] Jonathan Ellis commented on CASSANDRA-2356: --- (Since either change is 1.0 material IMO, might as well go straight to debconf.) make the debian package never start by default -- Key: CASSANDRA-2356 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-2356 Project: Cassandra Issue Type: Improvement Components: Packaging Reporter: Jeremy Hanna Priority: Minor Labels: debian, packaging Attachments: 2356.txt Currently the debian package that installs cassandra starts cassandra by default. It sounds like that is a standard debian packaging convention. However, if you want to bootstrap a new node and want to configure it before it creates any sort of state information, it's a pain. I would think that the common use case would be to have it install all of the init scripts and such but *not* have it start up by default. That way an admin can configure cassandra with seed, token, host, etc. information and then start it. That makes it easier to programmatically do this as well - have chef/puppet install cassandra, do some configuration, then do the service start. With the current setup, it sounds like cassandra creates state on startup that has to be cleaned before a new configuration can take effect. So the process of installing turns into: * install debian package * shutdown cassandra * clean out state (data/log dirs) * configure cassandra * start cassandra That seems suboptimal for the default case, especially when trying to automate new nodes being bootstrapped. Another case might be when a downed node comes back up and starts by default and tries to claim a token that has already been claimed by another newly bootstrapped node. Rob is more familiar with that case so I'll let him explain it in the comments. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
