Re: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository(was: primary distribution location))
Noel J. Bergman wrote: If the fundamental philosophy of the ASF is Community First, how do you feel that you contributed to that today? Quite simple: the ASF has the honour to host mr. Van Zyl's project on its servers. In return, they get flamed with FUD and ownership. Bah. -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location))
Jason van Zyl wrote: What irks the hell out of me is people like Nicola constantly whining about being excluded. Excluded from what? I find this message quite interesting in this context: http://www.mail-archive.com/general@jakarta.apache.org/msg07046.html Expecially your signature. -- Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository(was: primary distribution location))
Jason, > > why aren't Ant and Maven two related projects under a single PMC? > Well, because when Ant formed they had no desire to be grouped with > Maven Based upon your attitude today towards Greg, Sam, Nicola (who isn't even here, but was accused of whining), etc., I can't say that I blame them. Jason, I don't know you. I barely know your projects. So why would you want this outburst to be the thing I know the most about you? I'm sorry, Jason, and perhaps I'm not being fair but it seems that you are having an apoplectic fit at very idea of a PMC that oversees build process related projects. This was confusing to me, so I asked. What I am told is that you are concerned about being stuck with Centipede and Gump, for which you have already indicated personal disdain. Well, fine. I don't use either and won't put forth a value judgment, but if they suck they suck. Sam's ego will hold up. Nick seems an affable enough person from the few messages I've read from him. The glaringly obvious point to me is that Ant and Maven have synergy. Dion says, "we very much have synergy with ant, and rely heavily on them." If a hypothetical build process top level project of Ant and Maven were to replace Centipede and Gump with code that serves the ASF's needs and sucks less, who cares? As has often been said, the important thing is the Community, not the code. > If there is no emergent cooperation what is the point in forcing > collaboration? It's just not productive and how does that serve > the purpose of making better software? If the fundamental philosophy of the ASF is Community First, how do you feel that you contributed to that today? How do your comments further the purpose of making better software, the ASF Way? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location))
On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 10:55, Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > I wouldn't phrase it quite that way, but as long as the question is on the > table: why aren't Ant and Maven two related projects under a single PMC? Well, because when Ant formed they had no desire to be grouped with Maven which is perfectly fine. Why isn't it perfectly fine? And when we made our proposal we wanted to be separate. What irks the hell out of me is people like Nicola constantly whining about being excluded. Excluded from what? We didn't cut of hands and throw you in a closet. All those projects can do whatever they want? If there is no emergent cooperation what is the point in forcing collaboration? It's just not productive and how does that serve the purpose of making better software? > And what is underlying Jason's emotional response to that idea? > > --- Noel > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location))
Conor, I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Dion was refering to the repository; rather he was commenting in response to my aside regarding Ant and Maven: On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 09:48:42PM +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Noel Bergman writes: > > I like the idea of a central repository. It would simplify the issue by > > centralizing maintenance of jars and licenses. I just want to know how > > it is going to operate. A joint operation between Ant and Maven? > > Infrastructure? > > > > [I won't even get into the question of why those two can't be related > > projects under a single PMC] > > Read the Ant missionit specifically states the Ant build system as > it's scope. Jason's reply to Greg Stein, where Greg quoted the entire antecedent, and Jason just quoted my aside, lends further weight to my belief that the discussion was about the projects and not the repository. I understand some of the reasons why they aren't one project, but they are clearly in the same space. I've heard Maven refered to as "the Ant v2 that will never happen", indicating a perception of some people as to how the projects relate. That naturally raises, at least in the mind of users, the question of cooperation and co-development of those two related projects. > Is there an Ant PMC issue here? I wouldn't phrase it quite that way, but as long as the question is on the table: why aren't Ant and Maven two related projects under a single PMC? And what is underlying Jason's emotional response to that idea? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ant PMC Issue (was: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary distribution location))
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the Ant missionit specifically states the Ant build system as it's scope. Hi Dion, Your subject got my attention :-) Is there an Ant PMC issue here? We're certainly open to working with other projects within Apache and beyond. Is Ant's scope statement preventing the Maven developers from working on an Apache jar repository with Ant? Am I missing something? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
