Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Tim Newsom]

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:35, "Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik" wrote:

On 20:15:37 2007-08-26 "Edwin Lock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 So you have to get used to it every time again? doesn't seem like a 
very

 good idea.
 My experience is that people like to get used to things and do them
 like the got used to, not change..

 - Edwin



A dynamic input... I like it... But let's put it this way... it 
shouldn't

be to hard to add an option to either use a dynamic input or a
pre-defined/custom
static one. Give the user the final choice. But then that's just me... 
I

like the user having as much choice as possible.

--
Andraž "ruskie" Levstik


Ok, I didn't actually mean after each and every keystroke. I was trying 
to float the idea. The actual implementation would obviously be up to 
some kind of experimentation.


I can't see how removing the unused characters and adding more used 
characters could be a bad thing. Granted you let the user decide to 
switch and always have the ability to go back to default.. But each user 
will have a different vocabulary and thus a different optimization 
specifically for them.


as a bad example take someone who always talks in leet speek when 
messaging.  That will be a very different layout than someone who does 
short hand or abbreviated messaging. If the program could figure out, 
say each night or when the user chooses or what not, which letters or 
symbols they use most and build an appropriate step heirarchy then you 
could optimize the path for fewest drag type operations and more click 
operations. Or at least that's how it seems to me.  Then once the 
sequences are determined, let the user position them on the grid in a 
manner that feels right to them. For each user that might be different.


Anyway, some will like it and some will disable it in favor of the 
default or non-assisted but customly defined layout.  Personally, I 
would not mind having the least used letters changed out for more used 
letters based on my usage patters in a semi automatic way, if I could 
anchor my most used letters to positions where they feel comfortable.

--Tim
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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Giles Jones]

On 27 Aug 2007, at 01:39, Richard Reichenbacher wrote:

Well if this phone is going to make some kind of impact on the  
cellular

industry it needs to offer simple and easy to use text input primarily
intended for sms, adding contacts, etc.  Coders are in the minority  
here.
90% of the time you're not going to be programming for the phone  
anyways,

you're going to be texting or adding tasks and contacts.


I think a minute rule applies, if someone who's used a smartphone  
before can pick up a phone using openmoko and use the basic features  
in under a minute then it's all pretty well designed and logical


Obviously people who are used to awful interfaces like UIQ might  
struggle at first :)



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RE: Power on device after being powered down

[Richard Reichenbacher]

That's a good way to attract customers.  Establish a nice a friendly support
community.  Good job.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod Whitby
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 5:29 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Power on device after being powered down

wim delvaux wrote:
> I powered down my device a couple of days ago.
> 
> I want to power it back on ... HOW 
> 
> 1. press power button for several seconds ? NOPE
> 
> 2. pull out battery and do step 1 ? NOPE
> 
> 3. press aux + power ? NOPE 
> 
> 4. Try all of the above while plugged in into the USB ? NOPE
> 
> ??

5. Search the wiki for an answer ? NOPE

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger#Neo1973_emergency_char
ging

-- Rod

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RE: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Richard Reichenbacher]

Well if this phone is going to make some kind of impact on the cellular
industry it needs to offer simple and easy to use text input primarily
intended for sms, adding contacts, etc.  Coders are in the minority here.
90% of the time you're not going to be programming for the phone anyways,
you're going to be texting or adding tasks and contacts.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lars Hallberg
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:52 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

Richard Reichenbacher skrev:
> Is setting up a keyboard for programming really all that necessary?

I for one is more likely to ssh out of the phone. My main drive to get a 
neo is:

  a) Make some good fun and use out of time wasted in places where there 
are no computer or net around. Think trapped in the tent some rainy days.

  b) Be able to spend more time in those places I like better (like the 
forest and the mountains, festivals and happenings).

So... I want a keyboard god enugh to use any CLI/text app and gui tools 
like editors. If I can occasionally compile on the phone it's even 
better (need not be fast)!

/LaH


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Re: Power on device after being powered down

[Rod Whitby]

wim delvaux wrote:
> I powered down my device a couple of days ago.
> 
> I want to power it back on ... HOW 
> 
> 1. press power button for several seconds ? NOPE
> 
> 2. pull out battery and do step 1 ? NOPE
> 
> 3. press aux + power ? NOPE 
> 
> 4. Try all of the above while plugged in into the USB ? NOPE
> 
> ??

5. Search the wiki for an answer ? NOPE

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger#Neo1973_emergency_charging

-- Rod

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Re: Power on device after being powered down

[Giles Jones]

On 27 Aug 2007, at 01:18, wim delvaux wrote:


I powered down my device a couple of days ago.

I want to power it back on ... HOW 


Remove battery for 10 seconds and replace. Charge phone for 4 hours.

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Re: compile error

[Rod Whitby]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> hi community,
> 
> does someone has the same problem with the -lz option in the qtopia-
> core section?
> i can't compile this section beacause it is for me unclear what 
> kind of lib is used.

Install the package on your host OS which provides libz.  It's probably
called zlib-devel or something like that with some other version numbers
in the middle.

The correct fix is to make the qtopia-core package use the zlib-native
package that OpenEmbedded builds, so please raise a bug report on
bugs.openembedded.org to get that fixed.

-- Rod

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Power on device after being powered down

[wim delvaux]

I powered down my device a couple of days ago.

I want to power it back on ... HOW 

1. press power button for several seconds ? NOPE

2. pull out battery and do step 1 ? NOPE

3. press aux + power ? NOPE 

4. Try all of the above while plugged in into the USB ? NOPE

??


W

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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Lars Hallberg]

Richard Reichenbacher skrev:

Is setting up a keyboard for programming really all that necessary?


I for one is more likely to ssh out of the phone. My main drive to get a 
neo is:


 a) Make some good fun and use out of time wasted in places where there 
are no computer or net around. Think trapped in the tent some rainy days.


 b) Be able to spend more time in those places I like better (like the 
forest and the mountains, festivals and happenings).


So... I want a keyboard god enugh to use any CLI/text app and gui tools 
like editors. If I can occasionally compile on the phone it's even 
better (need not be fast)!


/LaH


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RE: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Richard Reichenbacher]

Is setting up a keyboard for programming really all that necessary?  The
screen is too small and it's too easy to just ssh into the phone to want to
sit there staring at the screen long enough to be able to write programs for
it.  I think a keyboard setup to be able to add contacts, sms and other
simple input should be the primary task for the keyboard.

I've been thinking about how I would like to be able to input text onto the
phone and the easiest solution I find is to have the phone switch to
landscape and a full screen keyboard with a small text box at the top just
like how Nintendo does it with the Wii.

Richard Reichenbacher

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josef Wolf
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:52 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 06:04:15PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> Josef Wolf skrev:
> >[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> >>a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be

> >>an usable and pretty efficient input method.
> >>
> >>   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/
> >
> >This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is
that
> >the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
> >mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  
> 
> I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
> systems. It's important to be easy to pick up.

It is perfect for the "phone" functions.  But we don't want to stop at
trivial functions.

> But an alternative layout 
> optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power users to 
> define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
> programs/tasks.

I'm not sore what is the best layout for "text input".  While I am pretty
that numbers-on-main-positions is the second worst possibility (the worst
would be to change positions automatically), I am not really sure what the
best layout would be.  As an example, for an emacs user, about half of the
keystrokes are either ESC or CTRL-X.  A lisp programmer would like
parentheses on the main positions.  I don't think we will ever be able to
find the perfect layout for everybody.  But we might be able to give people
the ability to choose.

As an exmple, I would like three layouts:
1. For phone functions, your original "phone" layout.
2. For mails, mostly used letters on main positions (as described in my
   last mail) but ESC and CTRL-X also on main positions.
3. For programming, some special chartacters should move on main positions.

> In 2007.2 the scroll wheel is gone, so the key layout should probably be 
> 5x3 giving the number of functions / key like (the status bar is gone so 
> the bottom keys get less functions):
> 
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 3

Ough, I don't really understand... You want up to 7 functions per key?

> Make a total of 80 keys. Alternatively 6x3:
> 
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 4 3
> 
> Make a total of 98 keys... Think You need a real device to find out what 
> is best.

Too bad they are sold out :-(  No chance to buy one :-((

> 
> The main good with this input method is its intuitive and probably 
> reasonable fast. But now I'm thinking more on how to use minimal of 
> screen space and work good one handed without visual attention... and 
> still be reasonable in speed.

Maybe 8 functions per key (instead of 6) would be a benefit?  Only a guess.
You can't tell unles you actually tried it.


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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Lars Hallberg]

Mohammed Musallam skrev:
I believe a simple two character per "key" would be more than enough as 
a start (where the current phones are 3 chars per key). A full qwerty is 
too dense, so cut the density in half by bundling 2 keys into one.


The point with the design is not to use modifiers for the keys. You 
ether tap the key for main function, or press and drag on different 
directions for secondary functions. Making it almost as fast to reach 
the secondary function as the main functions.


How many functions per key, and how many keys is factors to experiment 
with. Think ether 5x3 (like Your design) or 6x3 is the best number of keys.


The number of function per key reasonable is on of:

tap + drag up, down, left, right. 1+4 = 5 functions.

The hexagon design 1 + 6 = 7 functions.

The first but with added diagonal drag, 1 + 8 = 9 functions.

Higher density and higher number of functions mean less need for 
modifiers to reach input functions.


Lower density and fewer functions mean faster and less error prone input 
but more need for modifiers. Modifiers are harmful as they have to be 
inputted in serial.. not parallel like on a physical keyboard.


Think it takes experimentation to find the optimum.

One possibility is to us 5x3 but have an option to add one more column 
that can be used for user defined keys and app specific accelerators.


/LaH


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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Mohammed Musallam]

I believe a simple two character per "key" would be more than enough as a start 
(where the current phones are 3 chars per key). A full qwerty is too dense, so 
cut the density in half by bundling 2 keys into one.

I've attached a 2 minute mokup. Image is 480px accross.

just tossing ideas.. layout would be discussed.

- Original Message 
From: Josef Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:51:50 PM
Subject: Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 06:04:15PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> Josef Wolf
 skrev:
> >[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> >>a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be 
> >>an usable and pretty efficient input method.
> >>
> >>   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/
> >
> >This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is that
> >the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
> >mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  
> 
> I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
> systems. It's important to be easy to pick up.

It is perfect for the "phone" functions.  But we don't want to stop
 at
trivial functions.

> But an alternative layout 
> optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power users to 
> define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
> programs/tasks.

I'm not sore what is the best layout for "text input".  While I am pretty
that numbers-on-main-positions is the second worst possibility (the worst
would be to change positions automatically), I am not really sure what the
best layout would be.  As an example, for an emacs user, about half of the
keystrokes are either ESC or CTRL-X.  A lisp programmer would like
parentheses on the main positions.  I don't think we will ever be able to
find the perfect layout for everybody.  But we might be able to give people
the ability to choose.

As an exmple, I would like three layouts:
1. For phone functions, your original "phone"
 layout.
2. For mails, mostly used letters on main positions (as described in my
   last mail) but ESC and CTRL-X also on main positions.
3. For programming, some special chartacters should move on main positions.

> In 2007.2 the scroll wheel is gone, so the key layout should probably be 
> 5x3 giving the number of functions / key like (the status bar is gone so 
> the bottom keys get less functions):
> 
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 3

Ough, I don't really understand... You want up to 7 functions per key?

> Make a total of 80 keys. Alternatively 6x3:
> 
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 4 3
> 
> Make a total of 98 keys... Think You need a real device to find out what 
> is best.

Too bad they are sold out :-(  No chance to buy one :-((

> 
> The main good with this input method is its intuitive
 and probably 
> reasonable fast. But now I'm thinking more on how to use minimal of 
> screen space and work good one handed without visual attention... and 
> still be reasonable in speed.

Maybe 8 functions per key (instead of 6) would be a benefit?  Only a guess.
You can't tell unles you actually tried it.












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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Lars Hallberg]

Josef Wolf skrev:

On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 06:04:15PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:

Josef Wolf skrev:

[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be 
an usable and pretty efficient input method.


  http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/

This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is that
the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  
I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
systems. It's important to be easy to pick up.


It is perfect for the "phone" functions.  But we don't want to stop at
trivial functions.


The phone function got it's own dialer keypad. But a numeric keypad may 
be useful for allot else... and I believe it to be most beginner 
friendly... And... I don't really think it's any big difference in 
hitting the main function or the secondary functions of a key.


But an alternative layout 
optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power users to 
define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
programs/tasks.


Sorry for my English... but I think I try to say about the same thing 
You did her :-)


In 2007.2 the scroll wheel is gone, so the key layout should probably be 
5x3 giving the number of functions / key like (the status bar is gone so 
the bottom keys get less functions):


5 7 7 7 5
5 7 7 7 5
3 4 4 4 3


Ough, I don't really understand... You want up to 7 functions per key?


One only press+release, then press and drag in one of six directions = 1 
+ 6 = 7. But the keys on the edge of the screen can't be dragged in off 
screen directions giving less 'functions'. As described in:


   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/



Make a total of 80 keys. Alternatively 6x3:

5 7 7 7 7 5
5 7 7 7 7 5
3 4 4 4 4 3

Make a total of 98 keys... Think You need a real device to find out what 
is best.


Too bad they are sold out :-(  No chance to buy one :-((


Well, there will come new ones :-)


The main good with this input method is its intuitive and probably 
reasonable fast. But now I'm thinking more on how to use minimal of 
screen space and work good one handed without visual attention... and 
still be reasonable in speed.


Maybe 8 functions per key (instead of 6) would be a benefit?  Only a guess.
You can't tell unles you actually tried it.


You mean 8 drag directions + just press+relese... 9 functions per key. 
Might work. Guess testing on the device is how to find out. But 6x5 
keyboard with 8 drag directions give:


6 9 9 9 9 6
6 9 9 9 9 6
4 6 6 6 6 4

A total of 128 'keys'... Good *if* it works :-)

/LaH


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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Josef Wolf]

On Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 06:04:15PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> Josef Wolf skrev:
> >[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> >>a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be 
> >>an usable and pretty efficient input method.
> >>
> >>   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/
> >
> >This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is that
> >the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
> >mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  
> 
> I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
> systems. It's important to be easy to pick up.

It is perfect for the "phone" functions.  But we don't want to stop at
trivial functions.

> But an alternative layout 
> optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power users to 
> define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
> programs/tasks.

I'm not sore what is the best layout for "text input".  While I am pretty
that numbers-on-main-positions is the second worst possibility (the worst
would be to change positions automatically), I am not really sure what the
best layout would be.  As an example, for an emacs user, about half of the
keystrokes are either ESC or CTRL-X.  A lisp programmer would like
parentheses on the main positions.  I don't think we will ever be able to
find the perfect layout for everybody.  But we might be able to give people
the ability to choose.

As an exmple, I would like three layouts:
1. For phone functions, your original "phone" layout.
2. For mails, mostly used letters on main positions (as described in my
   last mail) but ESC and CTRL-X also on main positions.
3. For programming, some special chartacters should move on main positions.

> In 2007.2 the scroll wheel is gone, so the key layout should probably be 
> 5x3 giving the number of functions / key like (the status bar is gone so 
> the bottom keys get less functions):
> 
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 3

Ough, I don't really understand... You want up to 7 functions per key?

> Make a total of 80 keys. Alternatively 6x3:
> 
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 5 7 7 7 7 5
> 3 4 4 4 4 3
> 
> Make a total of 98 keys... Think You need a real device to find out what 
> is best.

Too bad they are sold out :-(  No chance to buy one :-((

> 
> The main good with this input method is its intuitive and probably 
> reasonable fast. But now I'm thinking more on how to use minimal of 
> screen space and work good one handed without visual attention... and 
> still be reasonable in speed.

Maybe 8 functions per key (instead of 6) would be a benefit?  Only a guess.
You can't tell unles you actually tried it.


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Problem with project submission

[Alessandro Iurlano]

Hello.
I submitted a new project on projects.openmoko.org a few hours ago but
I mistyped its unix name. Who should I send an email to to
block/correct the registration process?

thanks,
Alessandro

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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik]

On 20:15:37 2007-08-26 "Edwin Lock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So you have to get used to it every time again? doesn't seem like a very
> good idea.
> My experience is that people like to get used to things and do them
> like the got used to, not change..
> 
> - Edwin
> 

A dynamic input... I like it... But let's put it this way... it shouldn't
be to hard to add an option to either use a dynamic input or a
pre-defined/custom
static one. Give the user the final choice. But then that's just me... I
like the user having as much choice as possible.

--
Andraž "ruskie" Levstik
Source Mage GNU/Linux Games grimoire guru
Geek/Hacker/Tinker

Hacker FAQ: http://www.plethora.net/%7eseebs/faqs/hacker.html
Be sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth.

Key id = F4C1F89C
Key fingerprint = 6FF2 8F20 4C9D DB36 B5B6  F134 884D 72CC F4C1 F89C


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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Lars Hallberg]

Tim Newsom skrev:
What about a continuously variable system which starts with the most 
commonly used letters and then adjusts itself based on user input.  It 
could learn which letters a specific person uses to type and make them 
more prominent. Then, depending on modes the programming or web 
searching or other keyboards would automatically adapt to the best 
layout based on the users individual behavior.


A main factor in speeding up typing is learning the layout, so a layout 
that change under the users fingertips is bad. But collecting usage 
statistics and have some function to assist the user in making there own 
layout at will might be good.


/LaH


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Re: Clarify openmoko != Neo1973

[kenneth marken]

On Saturday 25 August 2007 08:48:46 Jay Vaughan wrote:
> The only problem I have with the openmoko brand is that it clearly
> wasn't designed to take Spanish language users into account.
>
> "Moko" means booger.  The hardened snot you find in some little kids
> nose.
>

i dont think this is the first time a brand have run into trouble with the 
spanish language...

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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Edwin Lock]

So you have to get used to it every time again? doesn't seem like a very
good idea.
My experience is that people like to get used to things and do them like the
got used to, not change..

- Edwin

On 26/08/07, Tim Newsom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 9:36, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> > Josef Wolf skrev:
> >> [ I warm-up this old thread again... ]
> >> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> >>> a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might
> >>> be an usable and pretty efficient input method.
> >>>
> >>>http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/
> >> This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is
> >> that
> >> the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO,
> >> the
> >> mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.
> >
> > I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9
> > systems. It's important to be easy to pick up. But an alternative
> > layout optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power
> > users to define there own layout, or even special layout for different
> > programs/tasks.
> /snip
> > /LaH
> >
>
> What about a continuously variable system which starts with the most
> commonly used letters and then adjusts itself based on user input.  It
> could learn which letters a specific person uses to type and make them
> more prominent. Then, depending on modes the programming or web
> searching or other keyboards would automatically adapt to the best
> layout based on the users individual behavior.
> --Tim
>
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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Tim Newsom]

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 9:36, Lars Hallberg wrote:

Josef Wolf skrev:

[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]
On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might 
be an usable and pretty efficient input method.


   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/
This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is 
that
the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, 
the

mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.


I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
systems. It's important to be easy to pick up. But an alternative 
layout optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power 
users to define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
programs/tasks.

/snip

/LaH



What about a continuously variable system which starts with the most 
commonly used letters and then adjusts itself based on user input.  It 
could learn which letters a specific person uses to type and make them 
more prominent. Then, depending on modes the programming or web 
searching or other keyboards would automatically adapt to the best 
layout based on the users individual behavior.

--Tim

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compile error

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

hi community,

does someone has the same problem with the -lz option in the qtopia-
core section?
i can't compile this section beacause it is for me unclear what 
kind of lib is used.

comments and solutions are welcome

cy


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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Lars Hallberg]

Josef Wolf skrev:

[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be 
an usable and pretty efficient input method.


   http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/


This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is that
the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  


I think it's a good default as it reuses the users knowledges from t9 
systems. It's important to be easy to pick up. But an alternative layout 
optimised for text input is good, as is a possibility for power users to 
define there own layout, or even special layout for different 
programs/tasks.


In 2007.2 the scroll wheel is gone, so the key layout should probably be 
5x3 giving the number of functions / key like (the status bar is gone so 
the bottom keys get less functions):


5 7 7 7 5
5 7 7 7 5
3 4 4 4 3

Make a total of 80 keys. Alternatively 6x3:

5 7 7 7 7 5
5 7 7 7 7 5
3 4 4 4 4 3

Make a total of 98 keys... Think You need a real device to find out what 
is best. In the screen shots of 2007.2 the filer toolbar have 6 
buttons... and a little free space. Everyone having phones with 2007.2 
 is that tool bar comfortably usable with fingers?


If it is 6x3 is probably the best choice.


Lifting the keys up a little from the bottom (maybe put modifier status 
indicators at the bottom) will add the side down alternative to the 
bottom keys changing the number of functions on the bottom row to:


4 6 ... 6 4

5x3 -> 88 keys,  6x3 -> 108 keys.

. . . . . .

The main good with this input method is its intuitive and probably 
reasonable fast. But now I'm thinking more on how to use minimal of 
screen space and work good one handed without visual attention... and 
still be reasonable in speed.


Thinking 5/8 of a quickwriting wheel, so the 'neutral area' is in the 
bottom. Put it on the bottom of the screen You get tactile feedback 
from the screen bevel (may cut a small 'mark' in case at the middle). 
One such wheel give 25 'keys'. lay a row of keys at the bottom of the 
screen. press one key and slide to the middle to activate a wheel (the 
covers bevel can have small cuts to guide You to this buttons also).


If the wheel is big enough the tactile feedback given by the screen edge 
should make 'blind' use comfortable.


I'm not sure hove many button to use... but 3 - 5 (75 - 125 'keys')... 
However, some keys would probably be duplicated... one wheel for numbers 
and arithmetic, one for the most common letters... both of these want 
space for sure one for the least common letters and other less 
common symbols (can probably do without space) ... Then You probably 
want at least one more wheel for cursor control, enter, edit keys etc.


This is far less intuitive and far less suited for the average user and 
a poor default, but the one handed blind use is good for walking in 
traffic or in the woods. And it us only one row of buttons att the 
bottom of the screen, leaving most for the apps. It's a good 'power option'.


/LaH


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Re: At the risk of being flamed : State of software

[Gabriel Ambuehl]

On Sunday 26 August 2007 00:54:48 Lorn Potter wrote:

> OpenMoko Neo is a 'free' phone, why would you want to put commercial
> proprietary software on it? I thought the point of it was to get away from
> closed source/commercial/proprietary apps.  If I minded that, I would just
> use a Symbian or Windows Mobile phone as apps for those abound.

Largely because you don't get any useable open source licensed GPL maps. 
Furthermore, the whole point of being open means to have the freedom to run 
whatever you want... 

> > To get
> > phone functionality of Qtopia
>
> well, who knows.. if enough people email Trolltech... that could change.
>
> > OpenMoko company would have to pay for
> > commercial Qtopia Phone or wrote whole phone subsystem from scratch as
> > there is no phone functionality in Qtopia4/GPL.
>
> Better than writing the whole shebang from scratch. Why not start with
> something that is 95% finished, mature, stable and tested.
>

How about Trolltech ports Qtopia GPL to the Neo *themselves*? That would prove 
that it's easy enough (heck you could count the hours of work included and 
write up some whitepaper touting how portable it is) and people could chose 
themselves.  It would also mean that people get to try Qtopia on a reasonably 
priced phone!


Disclaimer: I use KDE everyday and I think it's by far the best desktop 
environment out there and a lot of that is closely related to Qt being a very 
good toolkit, so I'm not at all opposed to Qt, quite the opposite really and 
I also understand why Qt can't be LGPL.


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Re: Clarify openmoko != Neo1973

[Jay Vaughan]

The only problem I have with the openmoko brand is that it clearly  
wasn't designed to take Spanish language users into account.


"Moko" means booger.  The hardened snot you find in some little kids  
nose.


j.


On Aug 25, 2007, at 2:09 AM, Simon wrote:


The FIC Neo1973 powered by OpenMoko

I see these small banners in the future: "Powered by OpenMoko" that
would show up on different devices...  in the same style as "Powered
by Apache", etc...

My 2c

On 8/24/07, Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Daniel Spies wrote:


"Openmoko is a linux distribution developed for mobile devices.  
The first

device it will run on is the FIC Neo1973."



That is too complicated for some. Some may even not want a "Linux
Distribution", just that new phone. Don't confuse them.

They'll discover sooner or later. And when other phones are available
some time, they have to clarify.

It's like I have a Nokia or I have Motorola Phone. Some may not even
know the designation of their device. Openmoko is easy to grasp.

just my 2 cent
Patrick

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;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: VMWare-Image (again)

[Krzysztof Kajkowski]

2007/8/26, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
> > I have previuos one and I'm still trying to update it but OM does not
> > compile because 15GB is not enough space! Now I resized vmdk to 20GB
> > and in couple of hours I may finally succed.
>
> You should use the rm_work tip.  It reduces the space required to less
> than half that size.

Thanks for advice but I'm using it but it's still not enough disk space...

cheers

cayco

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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Ian Stirling]

Steven ** wrote:
On 8/25/07, *Ian Stirling* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


It would be nice to have some information on this.

Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be
produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in volume
  to developers in October?


> See
> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
>

I missed that somehow.

Which answers it - assuming that Phase 1 is shipping to developers.

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Re: Yet another finger keybord (gui mock-up).

[Josef Wolf]

[ I warm-up this old thread again... ]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 12:02:31AM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote:
> a mock-up on a 90-key by one stroke finger keyboard. Think this might be 
> an usable and pretty efficient input method.
> 
>http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/

This looks very promising.  I like this idea.  The only issue I see is that
the least used characters (numbers) are the easiest to enter.  IMHO, the
mostly used characters should be accessible without dragging.  

Please check

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchstabenh%C3%A4ufigkeit#Buchstabenh.C3.A4ufigkeiten_in_deutschsprachigen_Texten

for a list of mostly used letters in german.  In english, the frequency
is similar, but unfortunately I can't find the table right now.  I remember
I have seen the english table as I was searching for information about
dvorak keyboards on wikipedia, but I can't find it anymore.

I suggest to add a second layout, and use one of the unused drag
positions to switch between your original "phone layout" and a second
"text layout".  We could even have a third "programmer layout" or something.

When the nine mostly used characters (e,n,i,s,r,a,t,d,h) are put in the
middle of the buttons, 71% of all keystrokes would be done without dragging.

When the 15 mostly used characters (e,n,i,s,r,a,t,d,h,u,l,c,g,m,o) are put
in the middle, 90% of all keystrokes would be done without dragging.

Unfortunately, the table don't contain special characters.  I suggest to
put at least the space onto a main position.

This mail, up to (and including) this paragraph, has this frequency:

pos char   cnt   %cum%
==
 1  SPACE: 224 14.79 14.79
 2  e: 131  8.65 23.43
 3  t: 107  7.06 30.50
 4  a:  85  5.61 36.11
 5  o:  78  5.15 41.25
 6  n:  75  4.95 46.20
 7  i:  73  4.82 51.02
 8  s:  73  4.82 55.84
 9  r:  61  4.03 59.87
10  h:  56  3.70 63.56
11  u:  45  2.97 66.53
12  d:  44  2.90 69.44
13  l:  42  2.77 72.21
14  c:  33  2.18 74.39
15  CR: 33  2.18 76.57

>From this table, we can see two tings:
1. space most definitely needs to be on a main position
2. while the order is different, eight of the nine characters mentioned
   above are on the first nine positions in the table.

BTW: Vi users would probably like to have the colon on a main position.
Emacs users would probably like ESC and CRTL-X on a main position, so I
guess having it configurable would be the best.

Opinions?

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Re: VMWare-Image (again)

[Rod Whitby]

Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
> Hi! I think it could be the right time to provide updated VMWare image
> with OM 2007.2
> 
> I have previuos one and I'm still trying to update it but OM does not
> compile because 15GB is not enough space! Now I resized vmdk to 20GB
> and in couple of hours I may finally succed.

You should use the rm_work tip.  It reduces the space required to less
than half that size.

-- Rod

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Re: VMWare-Image (again)

[Krzysztof Kajkowski]

2007/8/8, Sébastien Lorquet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Okay the first image is bitorrenting at:
> http://tracker.unsads.com/torrents-details.php?id=3
>
> I'm currently seeding and leeching we'll soon have 2 seeds! Please
> contribute if you feel this is useful :)
>

Hi! I think it could be the right time to provide updated VMWare image
with OM 2007.2

I have previuos one and I'm still trying to update it but OM does not
compile because 15GB is not enough space! Now I resized vmdk to 20GB
and in couple of hours I may finally succed.

Anyway, could you make another image with OM 2007.2 so that newcommers
would not have to deal with resing images and compilation by
themselves? I could seed it as ussual ;)

cheers

cayco

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