Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?
On Monday 03 September 2007 20:24:38 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Guys, I wish to have time doing some benchmarks of e.g. GtkFB vs. GtkDirectFB vs. Gtk/X11 -- likewise EFL/X11 vs. EFL/Fb. Delivering factual numbers for things like that would be very interesting for us. While this might not be a benchmark, I've noticed that mplayer works better with -vo dbdev than with -vo x11. noslices=true also improves performance. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: omit qemu from OE build?
On 9/3/07, Eric Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To workaround the problem you had with gentoo and uicmocv4-native_4.3.1 please see bug 747 http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=747 Thanks I'll try that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How snappy can the Openmoko GUI get using GTK?
polz schrieb: On Monday 03 September 2007 20:24:38 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Guys, I wish to have time doing some benchmarks of e.g. GtkFB vs. GtkDirectFB vs. Gtk/X11 -- likewise EFL/X11 vs. EFL/Fb. Delivering factual numbers for things like that would be very interesting for us. While this might not be a benchmark, I've noticed that mplayer works better with -vo dbdev than with -vo x11. You mean -fbdev ? That would be quite natural since then you directly write to the framebuffer instead of going through X11. But you will get troubles when playing in a window but not fullscreen. noslices=true also improves performance. That's a good hint. Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: gpsd and AGPS
Hello, I'll answer the questions you raise, and clarify some points. Ken --- LTO is there now and it is free for FIC customers. Great! Is there a url for wget, or is it more complex than this? I forget the URL, I can get it later. Just look at the source code for lto_get -- the default URL is hard-coded there. Or alternatively, at some time in the past weeks, 12.5 minutes of signal to download the almanac (12 - which is good for a fair while. (some 3K of data) http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gif/databits.gif There is an almanac hard-coded into the GLLIN. The GLLIN will download one if there is 12.5 minutes of good signal strength. It is also kept in NVRAM.dat. The almanac just tells you which SVs are in the sky, and is not a substitute for ephemeris. Knowing what to look for shortens your search time, but you still need ephemeris. I assume you mean LTO in the above. There was a lot above, so I'll say mostly. Are there any nice graphs (or even NMEA logs) of comparisons between positions of the LTO files, and downloaded? (or see the above URL/wget question) No. Even with LTO, the GLLIN will attempt to download fresh ephemeris. I'm assuming that LTO files are not simply copies of the almanac - but more precise orbital data - the almanac has data errors of 1m. Correct. The Broadcom WWRN will predict the SV track and create ephemeris in advance of broadcast by the SVs. long-term-orbit files, (who knows, GL may go down under lawsuits, and the servers fall over, be eaten by giant mice, ...) to providing only a snapshot of the partial data obtained during a short fix, and asking the server to provide a position. Knock on wood -- GL kept the WWRN running 5 years with no service interruptions, and separately, Broadcom has had good luck in recent lawsuits. I'm not sure I addressed your point. Right now, GTA01 does not offer MS-Assisted. I notice you mention GTA01 only - is there any significance in this? Unfortunately, GTA02 does not have a Broadcom GPS device inside. Ken Yale ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:19:19 +0200, Ken Yale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I notice you mention GTA01 only - is there any significance in this? Unfortunately, GTA02 does not have a Broadcom GPS device inside. Am I getting it right that while GTA01 used to contain a GPS receiver, GTA02 doesn't have one? -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Am I getting it right that while GTA01 used to contain a GPS receiver, GTA02 doesn't have one? I think he was referring to the fact that he works for broadcom and it would be easier for him to advice if it did. GTA01 and GTA02 have a Global locate chipset. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Alexey Feldgendler pisze: On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:19:19 +0200, Ken Yale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I notice you mention GTA01 only - is there any significance in this? Unfortunately, GTA02 does not have a Broadcom GPS device inside. Am I getting it right that while GTA01 used to contain a GPS receiver, GTA02 doesn't have one? Has. Different manufacurer. -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 029534 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
On ti, 2007-09-04 at 09:01 +, Giles Jones wrote: Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Am I getting it right that while GTA01 used to contain a GPS receiver, GTA02 doesn't have one? I think he was referring to the fact that he works for broadcom and it would be easier for him to advice if it did. GTA01 and GTA02 have a Global locate chipset. Sigh. Broadcom acquired Global Locate. However, for whichever reasons, GTA02 will have a different GPS chip. On the IRC channel, I heard that the new chip/vendor is more co-operative with free software, at least. Have I missed something by the way and has gllin for GTA01, OpenMoko 2007.2 been released yet? Since we have a Broadcom guy here, Ken, you know what the deal is with that? -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Mikko J Rauhala wrote: Have I missed something by the way and has gllin for GTA01, OpenMoko 2007.2 been released yet? Since we have a Broadcom guy here, Ken, you know what the deal is with that? I'm working on providing an EABI toolchain to Ken, so that we can get a corresponding gllin binary. -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: problem with vanilla-kernel-patchset
This is a question regarding kernel development, so _please_ post it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not everybody in our community is interested in those technical details, and vice versa, people who work on the kernel might not read community. On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 03:38:24PM +0200, Dennis Gessner wrote: Hi all, I have some problems pushing all patches onto the vanilla Kernel (2.6.21.1). After using quilt push -a not all patches were applied. the trunk patchset is for 2.6.22.x. if you want to use 2.6.21.x, please use an old branch, not the svn trunk -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 10:44:20PM +0100, Ian Stirling wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On 9/1/07, Raphael Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: Is there any technical info available about this chip? Is there an X driver for it, or one in progress? depending on the timeframe, perhaps FIC could contact or help the opengraphics people with their project, the goal of which is to create a graphics controller asic that would be used for embedded systems. Using the opengraphics asic in the openmoko platform would be, IMNSHO the proper thing to do Or maybe use an FPGA so we can design our own hardware-accelerated graphics functions, and it can double for some other purposes too. OpenGraphics is starting that way (spartan 3 if memory serves). They are cheap. Not sure if they are low-power enough to use in a phone. Basically. FPGAs of equivalent size are _NOT_ cheap, or low power. I'd guess the SMedia chip is $20 or so. and it is multi chip package with 8MB sdram. Now, go and look for a low power FPGA with the thick end of a megabyte of embedded RAM, and many thousand gates. It'll be at least $100, maybe $200. 1MB is ridiculously small. oh, and not even thinking about the many man years it will take to write the verilog/vhdl for the graphics chip, as well as verification/testing/... This project is about building open source communications devices, not open source graphics chips. If we want to start building our own components, then we would have released GTA01 in 2010 and GTA02 in 2014. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 05:19:22PM +0100, Giles Jones wrote: On 1 Sep 2007, at 17:11, Mikko Rauhala wrote: You're implying there are better choices... I wouldn't know since I've not looked into such things. But ATI have mobile GPUs and are open sourcing desktop drivers, maybe they would do the same for their mobile devices? Why do you think we have spent many weeks, if not months to meet with each and every graphics chip vendor? We're not that stupid, eh. It was a very painful and long process to finally find one company that was not fundamentally opposed to free software drivers. one in the entire industry. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 04:31:00PM +0100, Giles Jones wrote: On 1 Sep 2007, at 16:07, Ian Stirling wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: Is there any technical info available about this chip? Is there an X driver for it, or one in progress? There is as I understand it at the moment only a dumb driver for it, using it as a framebuffer. Unfortunately, documents are only available under NDA. This means that only FIC can write the drivers. Seems like an odd choice of unit then for an open source phone. So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Why do you think we have spent many weeks, if not months to meet with each and every graphics chip vendor? We're not that stupid, eh. It was a very painful and long process to finally find one company that was not fundamentally opposed to free software drivers. one in the entire industry. Not stupid, just wondering why an open phone shouldn't be totally open, even if that means keeping certain things simple? Better optimising the 2D and having full control over the video hardware than having a 3D unit you can't hack. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. I misunderstand the announcement over these drivers then. It wasn't clear that these would be released as source or if they would be a binary like the GSM and GPS. If you're writing these but referring to NDA documents and the drivers will be open source then there's no problem at all. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Sigh. Broadcom acquired Global Locate. However, for whichever reasons, GTA02 will have a different GPS chip. On the IRC channel, I heard that the new chip/vendor is more co-operative with free software, at least. That's good then. Sorry but not all of us have the time to spend on the IRC channel. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Giles Jones wrote: Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. I misunderstand the announcement over these drivers then. It wasn't clear that these would be released as source or if they would be a binary like the GSM and GPS. Please don't mix real binary-only problems (GPS) versus including autonomous components that speak well-defined interfaces (GSM). -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Harald Welte writes: On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 04:31:00PM +0100, Giles Jones wrote: Seems like an odd choice of unit then for an open source phone. So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. Well... not speaking for Giles, but the drivers I've seen for closed chipsets have generally involved a thin open-source wrapper around a closed binary driver. Letting you write a real open-source driver while demanding NDA to see the specs you're writing the driver to seems odd on their part (but much better than the norm!). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: SMedia 3362
So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are not open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open source, because we are writing it. So are you going to release the source code to the driver you write? I think the impression was that an NDA would include not disclosing any source code you wrote using the NDA'd docs (ala Gumstix Marvell wireless drivers). What exactly will the driver actually be? As far as I can tell there are several options: 1) A DRI/DRM kernel module associated mesa module 2) A hacked up KDrive with accelerated driver 3) An xorg EXA/XAA driver 4) A DirectFB kernel module 5) A bog-standard Linux frame buffer device If it's simply going to be a kernel framebuffer device, what's the point in including the smedia chip at all?!?!? If it's going to be an x-org EXA driver, how much memory is xorg going to use compared with kdrive? I am guessing it's going to be a modified KDrive, in which case I guess we can kiss accelerated OpenGL ES 3D graphics goodbye? Cheers, Tom ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Well... not speaking for Giles, but the drivers I've seen for closed chipsets have generally involved a thin open-source wrapper around a closed binary driver. Letting you write a real open-source driver while demanding NDA to see the specs you're writing the driver to seems odd on their part (but much better than the norm!). It's odd and the only reason why I thought it was strange to go with this chip. I'm much happier now it's going to open source, seems like this is a good choice. It helps people maintain the driver if they have the code. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: other text input concept...
--- wrote: I had made some updates on my idea to a new text input method: http://www.inf.ufsc.br/~guy/text_input.html an append: when the user press the key it could expand (about 40%) that key and contract the others. With that, the user probably will see all chars that he can access by that key, even with his finger on the keyboard... what do you think? Guy I really like that general style of input as it has large keys and can be done fairly easily using one hand. However, the only thing I'm not too thrilled about with this design is the key layout. What was the logic behind where they keys were placed? I would think with just some minor tweaks, it could be very usable. Yeah, and the color scheme does need a little work. Keep up the good work. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Ken Yale wrote: Hello, Correct. The Broadcom WWRN will predict the SV track and create ephemeris in advance of broadcast by the SVs. long-term-orbit files, (who knows, GL may go down under lawsuits, and the servers fall over, be eaten by giant mice, ...) to providing only a snapshot of the partial data obtained during a short fix, and asking the server to provide a position. Knock on wood -- GL kept the WWRN running 5 years with no service interruptions, and separately, Broadcom has had good luck in recent lawsuits. I'm not sure I addressed your point. Right now, GTA01 does not offer MS-Assisted. Indeed. I was meaning with a hypothetical open-source driver. I notice you mention GTA01 only - is there any significance in this? Unfortunately, GTA02 does not have a Broadcom GPS device inside. If by this you mean that it's not got the GL hammerhead in, I'm rather annoyed. At no point has anyone from the core team said otherwise, I've been spending much of my dev time on the GTA01 on doing utterly pointless dead-end work on reverse engineering the hammerhead, when it has presumably been known to the core team for months that this was the case. The hammerhead hardware is quite featured, and would actually be significantly better than a simple device that outputs NMEA data, with a suitable driver. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA02 GPS (was Re: gpsd and AGPS)
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 01:19:19AM -0700, Ken Yale wrote: I notice you mention GTA01 only - is there any significance in this? Unfortunately, GTA02 does not have a Broadcom GPS device inside. Just to clarify this: We have both GTA02 prototypes with GL/Broadcom and with a a competing firmware-based AGPS solution. It is quite normal to analyze different competing options during product development. GPS RF performance, power consumption, per-unit cost, but also RD cost are aspects that need to be compared. But for openmoko, there is one other big aspect: The hard to quantify but present cost of using a non-free software component in our system. As everyone understands, the choice of a softgps with non-free software components on the main CPU (application processor) has quite severe implications for a project that is otherwise entirely open source. Our whole development model, build system and distribution system are just not in any way set up to deal with non-free software. We simply are neither used to, nor prepared to build, maintain and distribut any non-free software. In addition, the GL/Broadcom licensing terms make it impossible to use any of the established (GPL/LGPL licenses for programs that interface closely with the GPS chip (i.e. link to GLL, liblto or others). The community constantly pushes their finger into this single non-free component. While GL/Broadcom's technical support has always been excellent, the details of the proprietary software licensing and its impact on OpenMoko itself are unfortunately far from being optimal. But as of now, nobody can tell what will be in the final product. Not even I know anything for sure at this point. We're analyzing all our options. I'd like to use this opportunity to thank GL (and Ken, specifically) for all their technical support so far. Cheers, -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 GPS (was Re: gpsd and AGPS)
ti, 2007-09-04 kello 23:27 +0800, Harald Welte kirjoitti: Just to clarify this: We have both GTA02 prototypes with GL/Broadcom and with a a competing firmware-based AGPS solution. Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for spreading the premature word out on the street that the change was pretty much decided already. I appreciate the more-than-usually difficult decision process with the chip, and Ian Stirling's reverse-engineering work so far. (While my particular family would most likely continue to enjoy a reverse-engineered driver on the GTA01 for quite a while, it does undoubtedly lessen the motivation to do so quite a lot if the work will not be useful on GTA02...) Access to more raw GPS data, such as with the Hammerhead, would certainly be a bonus if indeed said reverse-engineering would succeed (and I have no doubt it would, given some time and effort); on the other hand, FIC likely couldn't ship a fully free solution by default anyway, at least in/through the US (maybe elsewhere as well depending on contractual obligations), so it would remain a sort of blemish on the otherwise free OpenMoko. Anyway, keep up the good work (I'll take Harald's word for it ;), Ken, with the gllin build, and the OM team with the hard calls. I would encourage Ian to continue working on the Hammerhead RE, but again, no one can really blame one for losing motivation at least until the situation clears up. Especially what with pretty much volunteer work and all (I presume). Cheers all around, -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lipstick on a fetus
On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 12:56:00AM -0400, Ken Young wrote: I've really enjoyed playing with my neo1973, and I'm very glad I bought it. I've written a little PDA application for it which I hope other people will eventually have fun with. But I must say I'm a bit worried by the implications of the effort that has been put into the new 2007.2 interface. I have made perhaps 6 successful phone calls with my neo. I have *never* been able to use the data service. I have *never* successfully received a phone call. I have *always* had to reboot the neo after placing a phone call, before I could make a second phone call. After the reboot, I must run alsactl. I have an ATT SIM which occasionally works, and a known-good T-Mobile SIM which has never worked once in the neo. Perhaps a few more hours looking through the Wiki would allow me to find solutions to all of these problems. Perhaps a few well-timed questions on the IRC channel would enlighten me. I have not really cared, because the fact that I can occasionally make a call means my hardware is almost certainly OK, and I had assumed that the high-level developers would fairly quickly (since the Mass Market version is scheduled for October) fix up the problems with the phone application. I'm primarily interested in the neo as a PDA and GPS device. But as far as I can tell, the usability of the phone software has not improved at all in the few weeks I've had the phone (I've tried several different builds of the code). We are very well aware of this situation, but please let me emphasize once again that we are a _really_ small team that builds everything, from hardware design through hardware implementation, testing, production process, logistics, UI design, framework, applications, distribution management, software packaging, hardware packaging, webshop, sales, ... I don't really know if those numbers are public, but the last time I've seen our list of employees in the Taipei office, there are something like 25 people on the openmoko side, and about the same number on the FIC Mobility hardware side. Of both the hardware and software RD team, only half of them are actually working on GTA01/GTA02. So any progress will inevitably be slow. And everybody has many different tasks/jobs inside the company. Since the whole idea of GTA02 was introduced very late in the project progress, it meant that a significant amount of resources had to be put into the GTA02 hardware design, verification, production process, system level software. Those are all resources that were taken away from finishing the software side, especially on the GSM part. The issue is like this: The more effort we put into the GTA02 hardware, the higher the chance is that we won't have any serious hardware problems. The GSM software side (and actually hardware side) of GTA01 and GTA02 are identical. We have verified the GSM part up to a point where we are confident that there are no hardware bugs. This means there is no urgent need to work on the GSM side. However, if we reduce our GTA02 hardware design and verification efforts, then we might get the GSM side running faster. But at what expense? At a delayed GTA02 hardware, potential liabilities, or god beware even re-calls or lots of failing units. This combined with the fact that openmoko is being spun off into a separate company (actually a whole series of companies in various countries), the entire company moving into new offices - which again drew significant RD resources away. So please exercise patience. When we started selling phase1, I made an internal comment that I don't think the software stack will mature a lot during the first 2-3 months after the hardware release. Compared to that, there was actually quite a lot of progress, mainly thanks to Mickey, Stefan, Daniel and O-Hand. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 GPS (was Re: gpsd and AGPS)
Mikko Rauhala wrote: ti, 2007-09-04 kello 23:27 +0800, Harald Welte kirjoitti: Just to clarify this: We have both GTA02 prototypes with GL/Broadcom and with a a competing firmware-based AGPS solution. Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for spreading the premature word out on the street that the change was pretty much decided already. I appreciate the more-than-usually difficult decision process with the chip, and Ian Stirling's reverse-engineering work so far. (While my Not only mine! particular family would most likely continue to enjoy a reverse-engineered driver on the GTA01 for quite a while, it does undoubtedly lessen the motivation to do so quite a lot if the work will not be useful on GTA02...) Access to more raw GPS data, such as with the Hammerhead, would certainly be a bonus if indeed said reverse-engineering would succeed (and I have no doubt it would, given some time and effort); on the other hand, FIC likely couldn't ship a fully free solution by default anyway, at least in/through the US (maybe elsewhere as well depending on contractual obligations), so it would remain a sort of blemish on the otherwise free OpenMoko. Especially as it offers the possibility of providing interesting performances that may be hard to achieve with a higher level chip - for example being able to completely turn off the GPS chip for several minutes, turn it on for 1s, and using knowlege of the GPS signal structure to pick when that 1s is, to get best position. Anyway, keep up the good work (I'll take Harald's word for it ;), Ken, with the gllin build, and the OM team with the hard calls. I would encourage Ian to continue working on the Hammerhead RE, but again, no one can really blame one for losing motivation at least until the situation clears up. Especially what with pretty much volunteer work and all (I presume). Cheers all around, ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMedia 3362
On Tuesday 04 September 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Well... not speaking for Giles, but the drivers I've seen for closed chipsets have generally involved a thin open-source wrapper around a closed binary driver. Letting you write a real open-source driver while demanding NDA to see the specs you're writing the driver to seems odd on their part (but much better than the norm!). Unusual but not unprecedented. Psion did the same for some of the documentation on the hardware for the Series 5 when linux was being ported to it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Hey! If you someday make this sound system for your car, please share with us some docs/photos/anything ;) Be sure, mate, you'll get that docs/pictures/anything when it's done. (Probably the first thing I'll do with GTA2) And you'll be the first to get the link to the source code, for my application to get some engine data, like oil temperature, oil pressure, and everything my board electricity gives me to put on that screen :) USB to CAN-bus interface for access to onboard data bus? That would give some interesting possibilities... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Al Johnson wrote: Hey! If you someday make this sound system for your car, please share with us some docs/photos/anything ;) Be sure, mate, you'll get that docs/pictures/anything when it's done. (Probably the first thing I'll do with GTA2) And you'll be the first to get the link to the source code, for my application to get some engine data, like oil temperature, oil pressure, and everything my board electricity gives me to put on that screen :) USB to CAN-bus interface for access to onboard data bus? That would give some interesting possibilities... Something like this already exists for N770/N800 http://openbossa.indt.org/carman/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mount the phone filesystem over USB?
On 9/3/07, Alessandro Iurlano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/3/07, Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is anybody having success with nfs or sshfs or some other method? I installed openssh to give it a try, which seems to be installed correctly but when I try to mount it: [proton][08:30:43 PM] sshfs moko:/ /mnt/moko remote host has disconnected For this to work I think you need the openssh packages on the Neo instead of the default ssh package. For detailed instructions see http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/replacing-dropbear-with-openssh.html Yes I did that (see line 2 above, installed openssh). Did sshfs actually work for you? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
On 8/17/07, Clarke Wixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at this picture: http://www.apc.com/products/moreimages.cfm?partnum=UPB10aPos=5 As you will see, it has a female mini-B socket from which it charges itself, and a female full-size A socket to which it supplies power. Uh oh... makes you want to plug it into itself, doesn't it? Hopefully they have some protection for when that happens. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Lipstick on a fetus
Harald Welte wrote: So please exercise patience. When we started selling phase1, I made an internal comment that I don't think the software stack will mature a lot during the first 2-3 months after the hardware release. Compared to that, there was actually quite a lot of progress, mainly thanks to Mickey, Stefan, Daniel and O-Hand. I might add that even this went on the cost of me working more on the thorough planning of the entire OpenMoko platform roadmap -- which is pretty important work as well and which I will immediately continue with once the most pressuring issues for P1 buyers have been resolved. Which -- considering where we've been 6 months before -- will be hopefully soon enough. -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions
Shawn Rutledge wrote: On 8/17/07, Clarke Wixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at this picture: http://www.apc.com/products/moreimages.cfm?partnum=UPB10aPos=5 As you will see, it has a female mini-B socket from which it charges itself, and a female full-size A socket to which it supplies power. Uh oh... makes you want to plug it into itself, doesn't it? Hopefully they have some protection for when that happens. If I inadvertently open a wormhole into an alternate dimension, I'll be sure to post about it on the wiki. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I broke my (non-NEO!) phone :-(
Hi, today is a day of mixed feelings... I've been using a Sony-Ericsson S700i phone for 2 years now, and it's been quite usable to me. But I smashed the display today when it fell out of the pouch it was sitting in. It probably still works, but the screen is unusable. Since I've heard about OpenMoko and the Neo1973, I've been following progress. Since my 2-year contract with the phone company can be broken now, I've been wanting to replace my phone. But, preferably for a GTA-02, since it has Wifi and that appeals to me a lot. I've not been developing for OpenMoko, but I've been in software since 1995. I might be able to do something there... I was 'hoping' to hold off buying a Neo GTA-02 until they were quite mature (almost ready for mass market), but since I'm phone-less now (I'll be able to borrow my father's old phone, some Philips with a horrible interface) I would like to buy one soonish... So, the question boils down to: When would I, approximately, be able to buy a GTA-02 phone, and would it bother people if I wouldn't develop for it, but 'just' use it as a phone? Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I broke my (non-NEO!) phone :-(
Christ van Willegen wrote: Hi, today is a day of mixed feelings... I've been using a Sony-Ericsson S700i phone for 2 years now, and it's been quite usable to me. But I smashed the display today when it fell out of the pouch it was sitting in. It probably still works, but the screen is unusable. Since I've heard about OpenMoko and the Neo1973, I've been following progress. Since my 2-year contract with the phone company can be broken now, I've been wanting to replace my phone. But, preferably for a GTA-02, since it has Wifi and that appeals to me a lot. I've not been developing for OpenMoko, but I've been in software since 1995. I might be able to do something there... I was 'hoping' to hold off buying a Neo GTA-02 until they were quite mature (almost ready for mass market), but since I'm phone-less now (I'll be able to borrow my father's old phone, some Philips with a horrible interface) I would like to buy one soonish... So, the question boils down to: When would I, approximately, be able to buy a GTA-02 phone, and would it bother people if I wouldn't develop for it, but 'just' use it as a phone? Christ van Willegen Christ, From what I've read, the projected release is October, but likely later. I'm waiting for the end-user release as well, making due with an old Motorola. If we're patient, I think we'll have a truly unique, totally geeky phone. Dave ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I broke my (non-NEO!) phone :-(
If you think you can wait a few more months before you'll be able to use it as a phone, then I don't see the harm in not deving for it. :P Christ van Willegen wrote: Hi, today is a day of mixed feelings... I've been using a Sony-Ericsson S700i phone for 2 years now, and it's been quite usable to me. But I smashed the display today when it fell out of the pouch it was sitting in. It probably still works, but the screen is unusable. Since I've heard about OpenMoko and the Neo1973, I've been following progress. Since my 2-year contract with the phone company can be broken now, I've been wanting to replace my phone. But, preferably for a GTA-02, since it has Wifi and that appeals to me a lot. I've not been developing for OpenMoko, but I've been in software since 1995. I might be able to do something there... I was 'hoping' to hold off buying a Neo GTA-02 until they were quite mature (almost ready for mass market), but since I'm phone-less now (I'll be able to borrow my father's old phone, some Philips with a horrible interface) I would like to buy one soonish... So, the question boils down to: When would I, approximately, be able to buy a GTA-02 phone, and would it bother people if I wouldn't develop for it, but 'just' use it as a phone? Christ van Willegen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ./key2key.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./key2key.py, line 271, in ? tmfexample = Key2KeyKeyboardTest() File ./key2key.py, line 243, in __init__ l = self.build_label(k[i][j]) File ./key2key.py, line 100, in build_label (ll, sep, s) = l.partition(:) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'partition' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 now or GTA02 later
On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 08:51:37PM +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: [ ... ] 4) Which would YOU choose, a GTA01 now, or a GTA02 in 5 months? AFACS, you have no choice: GTA01's are sold out. You simply _have_ to wait... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 now or GTA02 later
Josef Wolf wrote: On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 08:51:37PM +0200, Federico Lorenzi wrote: [ ... ] 4) Which would YOU choose, a GTA01 now, or a GTA02 in 5 months? AFACS, you have no choice: GTA01's are sold out. You simply _have_ to wait... There have been conflicting announcements. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Josef Wolf wrote: On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): Use Pythin 2.5. The partition method is introduced in version 2.5 python2.5 key2key.py on my debian box. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Two finger input methods (PyGTK demos)
Josef Wolf skrev: On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Lars Hallberg wrote: [ ... ] Not much faster I'm afraid, but a new version available at the same place: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/res/key2key.py Lars, can you please explain what you mean how this new 12-chars-per-key system works? Pretty simple, You have 12 key (3x4 array) and ether tap a key or press it and drag to any of the other 11 keys - 12 functions. It's extendible - If You add a column of keys You got 15 keys with 15 functions. Actually plan on letting the user (and possibly apps) customize the keyboard in part - that may include adding extra columns :-) Over to Your problem. Your Python is probably to old. According to the python docs (3.6.1 String Methods) You need python 2.5: partition(sep) Split the string at the first occurrence of sep, and return a 3-tuple containing the part before the separator, the separator itself, and the part after the separator. If the separator is not found, return a 3-tuple containing the string itself, followed by two empty strings. New in version 2.5. It's probably more stuff that needs fresh versions. Sorry. /LaH I have tried to run this on my suse-box (no more neo's available :-(): [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ./key2key.py Traceback (most recent call last): File ./key2key.py, line 271, in ? tmfexample = Key2KeyKeyboardTest() File ./key2key.py, line 243, in __init__ l = self.build_label(k[i][j]) File ./key2key.py, line 100, in build_label (ll, sep, s) = l.partition(:) AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'partition' [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I broke my (non-NEO!) phone :-(
On 9/4/07, Jimmy McMillan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think you can wait a few more months before you'll be able to use it as a phone, then I don't see the harm in not deving for it. :P ...so I might as well dev for it. True, true, but setting up the build env. has proven to be ... hard on a Mac. There are the VMWare images, but it's an iMac G5, so I have no Intel processor to run the VMWare player on. And running it under Virtual PC may prove to be slowish, to say the least. But, I'll be upgrading my RAM soon, so maybe then Virtual PC with VMWare player may be an option. Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
