Re: Buglabs
Also spracht hank williams (Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:17:51 -0400): I also think that using their stuff on openmoko would be incredibly cool. I was kind of thinking in the opposite direction... running OpenMoko (the software platform) on their stuff :-) Maybe if Buglabs is successful, FIC/OpenMoko wants to make a GSM BugModule ;-) (or better, a connect module: GSM+BT+WiFi) best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. - personal:http://lalo.hystericalraisins.net/ technical:http://www.hystericalraisins.net/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qtopia Phone Edition is being ported to Neo1973
You might have already noticed this, but if not: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1436 -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OM Camera - a new angle
Hoy I've recently bought a digital pocket camera, a Panasonic DMC-LZ7. It's a pretty good one, as pocket cameras go, and eats std. AA batteries and SD memory cards. So far so good, and bear with me for a moment. This will get relevant at some point :] The camera has a simple video mode, as they often do nowadays. Now, I don't expect wonders from a pocket cam in the video department, but there are a couple of things that struck my eye eventually. Panasonic advertises that the maximum video length varies with memory card. Support says 2G is the maximum. The actual camera, on the other hand, seems to have a hard-coded limit of 15 minutes, when it stops, with space to spare on my 2G SD. Ah well, it's a corner case anyway to want so much video on that device. A bit dishonest, though. Then comes the part which really pisses me off: Panasonic has crippled the camera so that you can't use zoom or focus functions while recording video. Now, I know this is not a camcorder. I don't expect it to record good quality video - just something casual once in a while. However, maybe I'm gullible, but I do not fucking expect Panasonic to maliciously lock me out of basic camera controls when recording. Presumably, this is all due to some sort of petty marketing policy to intentionally cripple the software on consumer goods with the goal to increase demand for their other devices. As someone having a clue or at least a half, I'm not particularly itching to buy a Panasonic camcorder after this; if they're willing to cripple basic functionality like this, who knows what any given Panasonic product will refuse to do for me! Almost reminds me of Apple. Well, scratch the almost. Now, for the relevant part. I want an open digital camera. So, hey, OpenMoko guys (or somebody else in the consumer device business and into openness), when you're well on your way to having revolutionized the mobile handset market, consider building one or twelve. While of course not any sort of priority especially this early in the game, such companion devices to the phones would fit into the Open Mobile Kommunications theme quite nicely, especially with bluetooth (and/or wifi) for easy integration with the cells - something conspicuously lacking from all but the highest end cameras I could find. (I do realize that some eventual OM phones will also likely have integrated cameras, but they will also be behind the real pocket cams, never mind real cameras, in quality and flexibility for a long while yet.) Meanwhile, I was happy to hear that the GTA02 can provide 100 mA on the USB port in host mode. It will likely make accessing USB cams in general a whole lot easier from the phone when necessary... PS: Did I mention that I'd suggest being careful buying Panasonic if you don't want crippled products? Good. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GSM/GPRS at same time? (was: Re: does dialer supports multiple calls at a time??)
Thomas Wood wrote: The Dialer does not currently support call hold or multiple concurrent calls because these features are not implemented in gsmd. I have a GPRS question, the wiki says (on the iphone comparison page) that it is class 12/cs4. That describes speed and number of channels. There's a third classification, A-C, which indicates whether it is capable of utilizing both voice/SMS and GPRS at the same time. Is the hardware capable of doing both at once? If so, is it planned to support that in the software? If it can't do both at once, does that mean that incoming voice calls will busy out? (I.E. the provider won't be able to deliver it and will route it to voicemail or whatever they normally do.) Since it was on the iphone page, does anyone know if the iphone can do both voice and data at the same time? I suspect both the Neo1973 and iphone fall into class B. Wikipedia describes the classes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service -Steve ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qtopia coming for Neo1973
before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. Some comments (personal, I can be wrong...): 1) I hope this stops the Qtopia dismissal because not-GPL'd arguments. No one can doubt of Trolltech commitment to Open Source world, whether you like them being commercial or not. 2) collaboration can be complete now, if not sharing the source (at least not fully, because of the different stacks), at least in borrowing design patterns. 3) this could be seen also as a temporary solution for those which want to use the Neo _right_now_ (despite it still being developers-only) 4) it stresses the no-software-lock-in that Neo wants to have, in contrast to all other phones. This is freedom. Seems to me a great step in making the Neo a big platform. I can't wait to see it. cheers, mauro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
a problem about A2DP of bluetooth
Hello, I want to use bluetooth headset in FIC, so I follow A2DP steps in wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth , but when install python-dbus, there are errors, as below: ERROR: ttf-bitstream-vera.postinst returned 3 /usr/share/fonts: failed to write cache /usr/share/fonts/truetype: failed to write cache /usr/share/fonts/ttf: failed to write cache postinst script returned status 3 ERROR: ttf-bitstream-vera.postinst returned 3 Upgrading libgcc1 on root from 4.1.1-r11 to 4.1.2-r6... Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/base//libgcc1_4.1.2-r6_armv4t.ipk Installing python-stringold (2.5.1-ml1) to root... Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/python//python-stringold_2.5.1-ml1_armv4t.ipk sh: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference Configuring libcrypto0.9.7 sh: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference postinst script returned status 127 ERROR: libcrypto0.9.7.postinst returned 127 Configuring libgcc1 sh: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference postinst script returned status 127 ERROR: libgcc1.postinst returned 127 Configuring libssl0.9.7 sh: relocation error: /lib/libgcc_s.so.1: symbol __gnu_Unwind_Find_exidx, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference postinst script returned status 127 ERROR: libssl0.9.7.postinst returned 127 Any suggestion? Regards, Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Bug Labs - http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/bug-labs-opensource-hardware.html
I just posted this to my www.collins.net.pr/blog and thought it may interest a few people on this list...wifi router module anyone? Cheers, Dean I had a really interesting conference call today about a new startup called http://www.buglabs.net http://www.buglabs.net/ They are looking to introduce a modular set of 'devices' that fit together and along with supporting software will allow you to creat your own 'opensource hardware mashups'. So the core 'base unit' is a fully programmable and hackable Linux computer, equipped with a fast CPU, 128MB RAM, built-in WiFi, rechargeable battery, USB, Ethernet, and a small LCD with button controls. From there 4 additional modules can be added, gps, video camera, lcd display, accelerometer/motion sesor being the first 4 for release (though 81 have been mocked up so far). The long term concept is if you want a 'weather station with live video feeds and gps location control you can add various modules together to deliver what you are looking to achieve. I have high hopes for the concepts, and wish the guys well as it seems their hearts are in the right place.though it's going to be a long (but interesting) road to travel. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
how to build openmoko for a pc
Hi all, Can anyone guide me in building openmoko on my PC i.e. to run on PC without any emulator. FYI, I have built openmoko using OE to run on Qemu emulator. thanks in advance, Regards, -Phani ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Short guide how to run gllin with chroot
Hello, I sent a GLLIN rebuilt for the 2007.2 toolchain to Mickey, and I believe he is testing it. To run it, you'll need a named pipe /tmp/nmeaNP unless you specifically disable named pipes with the -np option. I believe Sean and Broadcom legal folks are straightening out the SLA/EULA for the GLLIN and OMGUI. About these exceptions: 1) src/hal_linux_tt.c:1043: glcb_ExceptionAssert: This is from a very old version of the GLLIN, and won't happen in the 2007.2 build. 2) early exit(3) in halInit()/674 To overcome hardware problems, there is the gllin option -recover. The GLLIN will perform an early exit(3); call after this recovery. It toggles GPIO lines to recover the GPS hardware, i.e. bring it back to a sane state. In earlier GLLINs, this might have been one of the low-level tests or training sequences with slighty different wording, and your GLLIN operation instructions might have performed this step each time you start the GLLIN as a safety measure. This means that you'll always have a cold start, so it is not encouraged for good GPS performance. Best regards, Ken Yale From: Bartlomiej Zdanowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 22:51 To: Shawn Rutledge; List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Short guide how to run gllin with chroot Hello. Shawn Rutledge pisze: Thanks, it's a convenient package. But I'm getting an error from gllin: test_cmd_receive_count = 22 gllin: early exit(3) in halInit()/674 gllin: -periodic[9] 1 gllin: ../../../src/hal_linux_tt.c:1043: glcb_ExceptionAssert: Assertion `0' failed. I've updated my article. What happens with gllin I can't excuse but gllin is still working. Just invoke tail -f /home/root/gps.txt and you'll see new data incoming. This is the proof that gllin still works. If you don't see new data there's a problem. First of all update you Openmoko to latest release (especially to 2007.2 if you still have 2007.1). Check if it helps. Best regards, -- Bartlomiej Zdanowski Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Short guide how to run gllin with chroot
Hello. Ken Yale pisze: Hello, I sent a GLLIN rebuilt for the 2007.2 toolchain to Mickey, and I believe he is testing it. To run it, you'll need a named pipe /tmp/nmeaNP unless you specifically disable named pipes with the -np option. I believe Sean and Broadcom legal folks are straightening out the SLA/EULA for the GLLIN and OMGUI. About these exceptions: 1) src/hal_linux_tt.c:1043: glcb_ExceptionAssert: This is from a very old version of the GLLIN, and won't happen in the 2007.2 build. Will it be available to OpemMoko developers at least as a binary executable? In earlier GLLINs, this might have been one of the low-level tests or training sequences with slighty different wording, and your GLLIN operation instructions might have performed this step each time you start the GLLIN as a safety measure. This means that you'll always have a cold start, so it is not encouraged for good GPS performance. Will -recover option solve this problem or do I need newer version of gllin? Best regards, -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 08:18, Mauro Iazzi wrote: before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.926075 5578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW5q8SpY7t4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOG_mtSEMgs http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php Enjoy Andy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Buglabs
Not sure if they really have any modules yet - from the discussion yesterday it's still very alpha days at the moment. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2007 9:54 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buglabs On 9/17/07, Lalo Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also spracht hank williams (Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:17:51 -0400): I also think that using their stuff on openmoko would be incredibly cool. The other thing is they dont have a cell module yet - just wifi. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM/GPRS at same time? (was: Re: does dialer supports multiple calls at a time??)
On ti, 2007-09-18 at 04:55 -0400, Steve wrote: I have a GPRS question, the wiki says (on the iphone comparison page) that it is class 12/cs4. That describes speed and number of channels. There's a third classification, A-C, which indicates whether it is capable of utilizing both voice/SMS and GPRS at the same time. Is the hardware capable of doing both at once? It's B, can't do both simultaneously. If it can't do both at once, does that mean that incoming voice calls will busy out? No, Class B devices do still get the signaling and can suspend the GPRS connection for the duration of the voice call. Since it was on the iphone page, does anyone know if the iphone can do both voice and data at the same time? Dunno, likely not. -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buglabs
I dont know what you mean by whether they have modules yet. Clearly they are not shipping yet. On the other hand I saw (and held) modules in person, albeit not plugged in and demonstrated. They said these were production modules. It sounds like hardware is frozen, or close to frozen. Moreover, If what they told me in person (and whats on their website) is true, they will be releasing four modules by the end of the year. But none of the modules they are publicly discussing is a cell module. Hank On 9/18/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure if they really have any modules yet – from the discussion yesterday it's still very alpha days at the moment. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *hank williams *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 September 2007 9:54 AM *To:* List for OpenMoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: Buglabs On 9/17/07, *Lalo Martins* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also spracht hank williams (Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:17:51 -0400): I also think that using their stuff on openmoko would be incredibly cool. The other thing is they dont have a cell module yet - just wifi. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buglabs
On 9/17/07, Lalo Martins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also spracht hank williams (Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:17:51 -0400): I also think that using their stuff on openmoko would be incredibly cool. I was kind of thinking in the opposite direction... running OpenMoko (the software platform) on their stuff :-) I think it could go both ways but their software stack is much more high level. Its java based and essentially each module looks like a webserver that knows how to talk to the hardware. Openmoko is essentially a linux distribution, and their stuff is really an API and communications model that sits on top of a linux. Yest they have to do their own low level stuff like openmoko, but they have an abstraction layer that openmoko doesnt. The other thing is they dont have a cell module yet - just wifi. Hank Maybe if Buglabs is successful, FIC/OpenMoko wants to make a GSM BugModule ;-) (or better, a connect module: GSM+BT+WiFi) best, Lalo Martins -- So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable. - personal:http://lalo.hystericalraisins.net/ technical:http://www.hystericalraisins.net/ GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple is going to beat all competitors
Am 09.09.2007 um 20:28 schrieb Dylan McCall: The Neo is indeed behind the iPhone in almost every tech spec except one: Openness. And: - replaceable standard battery - even compatible with Nokia batteries - integrated GPS (well, does not yet work) - much higher screen resolution (pixels per square inch) - standard USB connector and charger did I forget something? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:03:05 +0200, Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem was that their three Iphones were racking up a bill for data charges using foreign phone charges. The Iphone regularly updates e-mail, even while it's off, so that all the messages will be available when the user turns it on. This not because Apple or ATT are evil. It's actually a bug (or call it a design shortcoming) and could happen to anyone. OpenMoko should probably include some system-wide network access management that avoids huge roaming bills. Applications will normally assume that if they CAN establish a TCP connection, then it's OK to do so, and it's better to allow them think this way rather than have every application care about possible roaming. Otherwise one of the application developers will forget about it once, and we'll have a problem like Jay Levy's. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Buglabs
Yep I meant that they don't have a ship date (or a frozen date) or even an open beta yet. Like I said I'm actively looking to support these guys as I think it's a great concept but.long way to go. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2007 10:30 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buglabs I dont know what you mean by whether they have modules yet. Clearly they are not shipping yet. On the other hand I saw (and held) modules in person, albeit not plugged in and demonstrated. They said these were production modules. It sounds like hardware is frozen, or close to frozen. Moreover, If what they told me in person (and whats on their website) is true, they will be releasing four modules by the end of the year. But none of the modules they are publicly discussing is a cell module. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Ironic given one of their Greenphone guys was slagging the OpenMoko project a while back. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. Regards, Jon Mauro Iazzi wrote: before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. Some comments (personal, I can be wrong...): 1) I hope this stops the Qtopia dismissal because not-GPL'd arguments. No one can doubt of Trolltech commitment to Open Source world, whether you like them being commercial or not. 2) collaboration can be complete now, if not sharing the source (at least not fully, because of the different stacks), at least in borrowing design patterns. 3) this could be seen also as a temporary solution for those which want to use the Neo _right_now_ (despite it still being developers-only) 4) it stresses the no-software-lock-in that Neo wants to have, in contrast to all other phones. This is freedom. Seems to me a great step in making the Neo a big platform. I can't wait to see it. cheers, mauro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jonathan Spooner Nationwilcox Systems Ltd Tel: 0121 3544345 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Hi, great news, but what does this mean? We need a posting of the projekt management, will Neo s Menue switch to QT? This means a GTK application will not work? Or: Any QT-Applicaiton will work now automatically? We need this info, for a decision, to stick to the library either a GTK-Gui or the existing QT-Gui. To not saddle on the wrong horse.. please send a notice Applications for Neo, should have a GTK or QT gui? thanks On 9/18/07, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buglabs
Like I said I'm actively looking to support these guys as I think it's a great concept but…..long way to go. Are you saying you think Q4 07 is a long way to go, or do you just think they are being overly optimistic. Hank Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *hank williams *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 September 2007 10:30 AM *To:* List for OpenMoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: Buglabs I dont know what you mean by whether they have modules yet. Clearly they are not shipping yet. On the other hand I saw (and held) modules in person, albeit not plugged in and demonstrated. They said these were production modules. It sounds like hardware is frozen, or close to frozen. Moreover, If what they told me in person (and whats on their website) is true, they will be releasing four modules by the end of the year. But none of the modules they are publicly discussing is a cell module. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Hello, On 9/3/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS I just keep wondering how hard it would be for us opensource prople to set up a network of assistance servers? Would a PC with an usb GPS device (and suitable os and software of course) be able to function as an assistance server? -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Michael Schmidt wrote: Hi, great news, but what does this mean? We need a posting of the projekt management, will Neo s Menue switch to QT? This means a GTK application will not work? Or: Any QT-Applicaiton will work now automatically? We need this info, for a decision, to stick to the library either a GTK-Gui or the existing QT-Gui. To not saddle on the wrong horse.. please send a notice Applications for Neo, should have a GTK or QT gui? Applications for the _Neo_ can have whatever gui the developer wants to build (or as many - there are several apps that support multiple rendering environments) Applications for _*openmoko*_ should have a GTK+-2 gui. openmoko isn't switching to QT. there is just now another gui available. for myself - I much prefer GTK interfaces. and will be sticking with GTK on the Neo (when I buy) Rgds, j. thanks On 9/18/07, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Dual-boot? (was Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973)
Is there a bootloader option for the Neo that could let developers decide whether to boot into OpenMoko or QTopia? If so, it could provide a convenient fallback option in case tinkering with one of the systems caused it to stop working. You could boot into QTopia to surf the net and debug the OpenMoko partition, and vice versa. On 9/18/07, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 and http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5429713730.html In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. Some comments (personal, I can be wrong...): 1) I hope this stops the Qtopia dismissal because not-GPL'd arguments. No one can doubt of Trolltech commitment to Open Source world, whether you like them being commercial or not. 2) collaboration can be complete now, if not sharing the source (at least not fully, because of the different stacks), at least in borrowing design patterns. 3) this could be seen also as a temporary solution for those which want to use the Neo _right_now_ (despite it still being developers-only) 4) it stresses the no-software-lock-in that Neo wants to have, in contrast to all other phones. This is freedom. Seems to me a great step in making the Neo a big platform. I can't wait to see it. cheers, mauro ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973. Fantastic news! What works? Looking at the youtube videos, it appears that the phone, SMS, bluetooth power management are all working? Can you actually place and recieve calls? I'm sure OpenMoko development will continue, but a good question is why? I don't really want to start a flame war, but I do think the question should raised. Why spend so much effort creating yet another GTK+ based framework? What would happen if all the people working on OpenMoko focused their efforts on improving Qtopia on the neo instead? Surely we'd get a fast, stable and functional phone stack a lot quicker? Cheers, Tom winmail.dat___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Buglabs
Well Q4 07 is either 12 days away or 120+12-1 for December 30th depending on how you look at it :-) If they have just opened up the closed beta process this means they have some time to go before being available for retail. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2007 11:02 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buglabs Like I said I'm actively looking to support these guys as I think it's a great concept but.long way to go. Are you saying you think Q4 07 is a long way to go, or do you just think they are being overly optimistic. Hank Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_transparent_l.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/famfamfam/us.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif +1-212-203-4357 chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_transparent_r.gif Ph chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_transparent_l.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/famfamfam/au.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif +61-2-9016-5642 chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_transparent_r.gif (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2007 10:30 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: Buglabs I dont know what you mean by whether they have modules yet. Clearly they are not shipping yet. On the other hand I saw (and held) modules in person, albeit not plugged in and demonstrated. They said these were production modules. It sounds like hardware is frozen, or close to frozen. Moreover, If what they told me in person (and whats on their website) is true, they will be releasing four modules by the end of the year. But none of the modules they are publicly discussing is a cell module. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18/09/2007, Jonathan Spooner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. Regards, Jon with the drawback that _everything_ will need to be Qt based, in contrast with openmoko, which will let you run any X app written out there (resolution issues aside) and, if the CPU is powerful enough, even Qt apps. Seems to me it will just be better when it will be finished. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18/09/2007, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Ironic given one of their Greenphone guys was slagging the OpenMoko project a while back. I remember, I suppose he wasn't speaking for all Trolltech, or they have just changed their minds... anyway it's good to see they are now working for the Greater Good(TM) . It seems a gain for all, also given they may even be stopping pushing the greenphone now that it has inferior hardware and same software of Neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
I've enjoyed watching the openmoko project grow - and I think it's a massive boost to the philosophy behind the project (and possibly to the perceived sustainability of the project) that another company is able to take the hardware specs and port their applications to the neo1973. I think it's good to have the qt stuff going on, but openmoko need to stick with the direction in which they're headed. Source sharing behind the scenes may benefit many of the core developers - but the openmoko project has set a fantastic example... were it not for openmoko then would qtopia ever have been able to become GPL'd. Congratulations to Sean for his untiring work on Software Freedom. I think today we've seen a dream come true (TM). On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:00:51 GMT, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hi, great news, but what does this mean? We need a posting of the projekt management, will Neo s Menue switch to QT? This means a GTK application will not work? Or: Any QT-Applicaiton will work now automatically? Quite simply if you have an X server running and you launch an app using QT it will read the libraries and launch. Same with a GTK app. Of course there may not be room in the ROM for both, but it's possible to install the libraries on a memory card and use a symbolic link or entry in the library path so they can be found. Typically the argument for QT is ease of programming, there's a good IDE called KDevelop. GTK's argument typically is that it's GPL and faster. OpenMoko should stick to what it is doing already. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18/09/2007, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:45:51 +0200, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. with the drawback that _everything_ will need to be Qt based Why is that? Qtopia does not make use of X. It uses direct rendering and draws with its very own primitives. It is one the primary reason for the different naming, I think... I also think you can hook to draw directly in the framebuffer, but there would be no policy for interacting with other apps, which you would have using X. Everyone could draw over you and viceversa. They chose to make it so, so there is no expectation this will change. It's a little more locked than what OpenMoko would be. In the meantime, it works well being limited, so it's a legitimate choice. @Giles Qt if fully GPL. Qtopia (the full stack: Phone Edition) used to be only partly GPL'd (a large part indeed called OpenSource Edition), but by October will completely be GPL. There are really no license issues with this software. This should be made clear. The problem people have is for it to be commercial (i.e. sold). It's a different issue. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buglabs
On 9/18/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Q4 07 is either 12 days away or 120+12-1 for December 30th depending on how you look at it J If they have just opened up the closed beta process this means they have some time to go before being available for retail. Acutally Q4 07 means they have until December 31. ie around 3 months. To me, that doesn't seem like a long way to go, but thats why I asked. Language to one person means one thing and may mean something else to someone else. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Hi, great news, but what does this mean? We need a posting of the projekt management, will Neo s Menue switch to QT? This means a GTK application will not work? Or: Any QT-Applicaiton will work now automatically? Quite simply if you have an X server running and you launch an app using QT it will read the libraries and launch. Same with a GTK app. Of course there may not be room in the ROM for both, but it's possible to install the libraries on a memory card and use a symbolic link or entry in the library path so they can be found. Typically the argument for QT is ease of programming, there's a good IDE called KDevelop. GTK's argument typically is that it's GPL and faster. OpenMoko should stick to what it is doing already. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:45:51 +0200, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. with the drawback that _everything_ will need to be Qt based Why is that? -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM Camera - a new angle
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 03:27:24 Mikko Rauhala wrote: Now, for the relevant part. I want an open digital camera. So, hey, OpenMoko guys (or somebody else in the consumer device business and into openness), when you're well on your way to having revolutionized the mobile handset market, consider building one or twelve. I agree. And please add WiFi to it. I've been looking at WiFi cams lately, but after the article about some horribly insecure ones on Slashdot, I figured I want one that runs on open source... BTW, I wonder if you could have a really small camera module (basically a CCD chip+lens, i.e. your average webcam but saner form factor) that hooks up to GTA02 via USB and used both power and display from Neo? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Thanks, but why is the Neo phone not a small laptop? that all can be installed, at least for the needed libraries. So a GTK gui still makes sense... Greenphone then can as well join OPENMOKO platform, and if greenphone uses only QT, is then the GTK application working? - no, if the GTK-Library is not installed. So we need a software/library proove at the startup and a path to the extending memory card with the proove of the installed libraries.. And that for every phone... Why is this announcement done now, and the code of QTopia 4.3 released in late Oktober? This should be speeded up from the project management, as the applications cannot wait weeks with no coding... And I guess in the later all will be QT... then the GTK is an old fashion as maybe laptop applicaitons as well switch from GTK to QT. This should be decided soon, a) if NEO gets enough RAM to run both b) if the operating system can have both libraries by default c) if there is a direction from the project management, wanting this or that for the new development.. d) why Qtopia is released so late.. as well the preview FTP of it is not working.. what is this for an annoucement??? Thanks for answering! Mike On 9/18/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quite simply if you have an X server running and you launch an app using QT it will read the libraries and launch. Same with a GTK app. Of course there may not be room in the ROM for both, but it's possible to install the libraries on a memory card and use a symbolic link or entry in the library path so they can be found. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 9/18/07, Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the difference of openmoko and neo? Thought neo is the phone and openmoko the project running it. So a GTK gui would work even with QTopia phone? Ok then there is a development interest for GTK... OpenMoko is an open-source GTK based software platform for open phones. The Neo1973 is an open phone, related to OpenMoko as it was the original reference platform. They are related, but not one thing. This is the difference. Trolltech have now done what should be done with open hardawre: they made their Qtopia software platform for open phones available for / usable on the Neo1973. With open platforms, comes freedom of choice. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tuesday 18 September 2007, Michael Schmidt wrote: what is the difference of openmoko and neo? Thought neo is the phone and openmoko the project running it. The Neo1973 is the phone hardware FIC are making. OpenMoko is an open platform for phones and other similar hardware, and builds on the GTK+ toolkit among other things. QTopia is an open platform for phones and other similar hardware, and is built using the QT toolkit. So a GTK gui would work even with QTopia phone? That probably depends what you mean when you say a QTopia phone. I don't think you could generally run a GTK app under QTopia, but I could be wrong. Ok then there is a development interest for GTK... Many developers prefer it. On 9/18/07, Joshua Layne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Applications for the _Neo_ can have whatever gui the developer wants to build (or as many - there are several apps that support multiple rendering environments) Applications for _*openmoko*_ should have a GTK+-2 gui. openmoko isn't switching to QT. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual-boot? (was Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973)
On 9/18/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a bootloader option for the Neo that could let developers decide whether to boot into OpenMoko or QTopia? If so, it could provide a convenient fallback option in case tinkering with one of the systems caused it to stop working. You could boot into QTopia to surf the net and debug the OpenMoko partition, and vice versa. They both should use the same kernel, so the only difference would be which init scripts get started at boot time. So just have the startup scripts display a selection menu for which environment to fire up at boot (and possibly add an icon to each environment to re-launch the alternate interface). But anyhow, no boot loader option is needed if you stick with the same kernel. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATI to provide specs (was: Re: SMedia 3362)
On Mon, Sep 10, 2007 at 12:10:48PM -0700, Shawn Rutledge wrote: On 9/10/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what exactly is not enough? You will get 100% free software drivers, down to the latest bit, no proprietary firmware whatsoever, plus hardware documentation that will be prepared by OpenMoko ? I didn't understand before that it would end up being 100% open source. We always said it would be entirely open source. Anything else is not acceptable! I thought you had to sign an NDA? But if the driver is to be completely open, and the documents are to be completely open too, what is the purpose of the NDA? The purpose of the NDA is to prevent OpenMoko from releasing the WinCE driver source code and/or the original documentation (or portions thereof), at least not without explicit approval from Smedia. The new free driver based on that infromation is explicitly excluded. It always depends on the exact wording of the NDA, what informaiton is not supposed to be disclosed, etc.! No, getting it working is the more important of the two, of course. But as someone else pointed out, maybe there is the possibility that someone outside your small team could help, if the NDA doesn't prevent it. no, that's impossible. What kind of driver are you planning on? (I don't think I saw that answered yet, sorry if I missed it) KDrive, DRI, etc... We don't disclose this information yet, sorry. As soon as there is something working, it will be in our subversion, though. Well the choices for open hardware are always slim, so far. I just thought some people might be putting more emphasis on OpenGL ES support than openness. To us, the openness is alwayts the primary issue at stake. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual-boot? (was Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973)
please not another gnome/kde parallel world system both libraries ( and I guess GTK embedded into QT) should be installed and work. and for the Main window: I guess soon it is QT. But please not a double boot option! read the QT-Experience report from one user on the list. QT is great ! that does not mean GTK is bad. But I experienced KDE much better than Gnome.. think users will / want use QT... On 9/18/07, Derek Pressnall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/18/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a bootloader option for the Neo that could let developers decide whether to boot into OpenMoko or QTopia? If so, it could provide a convenient fallback option in case tinkering with one of the systems caused it to stop working. You could boot into QTopia to surf the net and debug the OpenMoko partition, and vice versa. They both should use the same kernel, so the only difference would be which init scripts get started at boot time. So just have the startup scripts display a selection menu for which environment to fire up at boot (and possibly add an icon to each environment to re-launch the alternate interface). But anyhow, no boot loader option is needed if you stick with the same kernel. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
OpenMoko should stick to what it is doing already. I second this. QT is nice, but OpenMoko can contain the nice QT too! I'm looking forward for OM! Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
fwiw -- I just installed the qtopia images, and am _very_ impressed. On bootup my phone told me I had new text messages, and displayed them very easily. I even sent a text without issue. Phone calling works, for both incoming and outgoing calls, the only hitch was that I had to manually set the alsa levels using gsmhandset.state. This is by far the most usable my neo has ever been, so I will most likely keep using the qtopia image until the moko images do calling and sms without as much fiddling around. cheers to qtopia, -scott Mike Hodson wrote: On 9/18/07, Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the difference of openmoko and neo? Thought neo is the phone and openmoko the project running it. So a GTK gui would work even with QTopia phone? Ok then there is a development interest for GTK... OpenMoko is an open-source GTK based software platform for open phones. The Neo1973 is an open phone, related to OpenMoko as it was the original reference platform. They are related, but not one thing. This is the difference. Trolltech have now done what should be done with open hardawre: they made their Qtopia software platform for open phones available for / usable on the Neo1973. With open platforms, comes freedom of choice. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 9/18/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Quite simply if you have an X server running and you launch an app using QT it will read the libraries and launch. Same with a GTK app. Of course there may not be room in the ROM for both, but it's possible to install the libraries on a memory card and use a symbolic link or entry in the library path so they can be found. There is one other issue, assuming QT Phone is done the sameway QTE is on the Sharp Zaurus. The QT Embedded environment doesn't use X, but instead draws directly onto the framebuffer, so you can't easily run QTE and X apps side by side. Now I'm not sure how compatible QTE is to the regular QT X toolkit, if it is a 100% drop in replacement then you should be able to use the QT Embedded userland (apps, etc.) and link them against QT X. Typically the argument for QT is ease of programming, there's a good IDE called KDevelop. GTK's argument typically is that it's GPL and faster. A couple other differences, QT is C++ based, whereas GTK is C based, so depending on what your preferences are... Also, isn't GTK licenesed as LGPL, whereas QT is GPL? So commercial developers will need to pay for a seperate license for QT if they make non-GPL apps, whereas GTK's license is more commercial app friendly. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:45:51 +0200, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. with the drawback that _everything_ will need to be Qt based Why is that? Qtopia is a complete application stack which is not based on the traditional technologies used in unix. Especially problematic is that they have a gui-server which works directly on the framebuffer. Not X11 like all other systems. This has better performance and is in my eyes the perfect solution for embedded devices. But that is the reason why you can not just compile any X11 application for the phone and run it. But this issue is more or less a non-issue, because there is a x-server for qtopia avaiblable. But if you want to have native applications which fit right in the framework you have to use Qt and C++. And the other problem is that QT has different views about things like PIM storage (addressbook, calendar ...), phone systems (gsmd vs. the qtopia phone-driver system) and so on. Both systems just don't fit very well together. And i like both concepts... But thats how it is. Opensource is just about freedom to choose. The more choices the better... Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
On Monday 10 September 2007 12:47:26 Giles Jones wrote: Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : This not because Apple or ATT are evil. It's actually a bug (or call it a design shortcoming) and could happen to anyone. I'd actually call it ignorance or lack of information from Apple. Apple like to make things simple even though the underlying technology is complex, this minimalistic approach often results in lack of feedback to the user. OpenMoko should probably include some system-wide network access management that avoids huge roaming bills. Yes, actually the network access management is one of the most complex things to do right on a mobile device. Quite simply, build in a data counter that you can enter the cost of a data unit and have the phone show you your costs incurred. But also be able to deny access to all or specific applications. Nah it should be more advanced than that. GPRS+roaming - only check mail once a day, only download headers. no images download when browsing GPRS+no roaming - check mail 4 times a day, download full mail but skip attachments 2MB Wifi+at home - no limits public wifi - use VPN/SSH tunneling wifi+in china - use Tor etc --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
On Monday 10 September 2007 12:18:39 Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: Iphone's international plan in 29 countries, mostly in Europe, costs $24.99 for 20 megabytes. Which isn't even tha tbad considering my telco wants 5 CHF (roughly 4USD) per month. I meant to say MB, obviously. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buglabs
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 16:30:01 hank williams wrote: modules. It sounds like hardware is frozen, or close to frozen. Moreover, If what they told me in person (and whats on their website) is true, they will be releasing four modules by the end of the year. But none of the modules they are publicly discussing is a cell module. How big base and modules are we talking about here? (I admit I didn't read all the website ;) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Tilman Baumann wrote: But thats how it is. Opensource is just about freedom to choose. The more choices the better... My big question about Qtopia for Neo is whether or not Trolltech will be willing to take back changes. I've had some challenges in the past getting them to believe bug reports that I sent in, although they were extremely professional about it - I probably just needed to be more persistent. So I think that having the two projects competing is probably good in terms of keeping people honest. However, if I can cross-develop for Qtopia from my Mac, that's going to make a huge difference for me. :'} ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ATT is cruising for a bruising
On Monday 10 September 2007 12:03:05 Raphaël Jacquot wrote: Normally it does not cost US users for domestic data transfers, but the Iphone's international plan in 29 countries, mostly in Europe, costs $24.99 for 20 megabytes. Which isn't even tha tbad considering my telco wants 5 CHF (roughly 4USD) per month. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, On 9/3/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS I just keep wondering how hard it would be for us opensource prople to set up a network of assistance servers? Would a PC with an usb GPS device (and suitable os and software of course) be able to function as an assistance server? The A-GPS data aren't so dynamic as it sounds. I guess this could easyly be done with ipgk updates. Satellites may drift, but not so rapidly that something unexpected happens in days. I think... Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 9/18/07, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also prefer GTK+ and have invested some time developing an application on my Neo with it. I find it very easy to develop and test on my GNOME based desktop (Ubuntu) and re-compile for the Neo. I hope OpenMoko continues down the same route. John (putting a vote in for GTK+) +1 for that vote... however... I eventually see my neo with a nice menu in uboot, asking me if I want to boot into Openmoko, QTopia or FreeBSD (eventually :) With freedom comes choice, and choice generally brings cool things with it. My 2c ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gpsd and AGPS
Tilman Baumann wrote: Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: Hello, On 9/3/07, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS I just keep wondering how hard it would be for us opensource prople to set up a network of assistance servers? Would a PC with an usb GPS device (and suitable os and software of course) be able to function as an assistance server? The A-GPS data aren't so dynamic as it sounds. I guess this could easyly be done with ipgk updates. Satellites may drift, but not so rapidly that something unexpected happens in days. I think... Satellite drift isn't the interesting problem. That can indeed be predicted quite well with more precise orbits. The interesting part is ionospheric weather. This varies on a few-minute timescale. This is what http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:A-GPS could answer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM Camera - a new angle
Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: On Tuesday 18 September 2007 03:27:24 Mikko Rauhala wrote: Now, for the relevant part. I want an open digital camera. So, hey, OpenMoko guys (or somebody else in the consumer device business and into openness), when you're well on your way to having revolutionized the mobile handset market, consider building one or twelve. I agree. And please add WiFi to it. I've been looking at WiFi cams lately, but after the article about some horribly insecure ones on Slashdot, I figured I want one that runs on open source... Me too! A hundred megapixel motion stabilised hovercam would be ideal. It must have wi-max, and be able to fly up to several kilometers, to take pictures for use with the OM mapping system. Seriously. I'd want several megapixels, ability to take at least several second pictures, for use around dusk. Optical zoom would be a big plus. LCD size not hugely important. Wifi and bluetooth would be a big plus. USB-host too, to enable printing directly to devices, or offloading a few pictures to someones memory card. Have you seen the price of decent wifi enabled network cams? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Has anyone seen these benchmarks: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I believe Qtopia QT use the same code. So ignoring X, Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests. Now factor in the fact that QWS has a lot less overhead than X and a smaller memory footprint. Can someone _please_ give me a technical reason why they believe GTK+ is better? The only arguments I've seen on this list are philosophical ones. The only technical argument has been that you can run applications on the phone and have them appear on your desktop thanks to X. Surely there is a better reason? I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to feel that the OpenMoko developer's ego is a big driving force behind developing the OpenMoko stack. winmail.dat___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OM Camera - a new angle
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 19:12, Ian Stirling wrote: It must have wi-max, and be able to fly up to several kilometers, to take pictures for use with the OM mapping system. Need to integrate with these guys... http://diydrones.com/ [phone with GPS and camera being used to fly a model aircraft, and send georeferenced photos back over the network] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen these benchmarks: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I believe Qtopia QT use the same code. So ignoring X, Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests. Now factor in the fact that QWS has a lot less overhead than X and a smaller memory footprint. Can someone _please_ give me a technical reason why they believe GTK+ is better? The only arguments I've seen on this list are philosophical ones. The only technical argument has been that you can run applications on the phone and have them appear on your desktop thanks to X. Surely there is a better reason? Portability would be the main reason. I guess. But hey. Philosophical reasons are damn good reasons if you have to work with that stuff! Many people just cant stand the pain using C++. ;-) Someone had to make that choice. And it was made. I bet for good reasons. If you don't like it? Ignore it. Make it better. Whatever. No one made a decision for _you_. My first thought when Nokia released Maemeo was they are stupid. But success proves them right. When OpenMoKo started, these experience where already made. I would do the same today. Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Can someone _please_ give me a technical reason why they believe GTK+ is better? The only arguments I've seen on this list are philosophical ones. The only technical argument has been that you can run applications on the phone and have them appear on your desktop thanks to X. Surely there is a better reason? Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. Simon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. So you're saying Qtopia makes it harder to port desktop applications designed to be used with a 17+ monitor, keyboard and mouse to a device with no buttons and a 2.8 touch screen. I'd argue that the problems with porting desktop applications are far greater than the underlying framework. Are there any instances of a desktop application being ported to the OpenMoko which is usable? The only one I've seen is gpaint on OpenHand's Poky Linux, and that looked fiddly at best. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18/09/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. Also, one possible solution to this would be to run an x server which outputed to a QWS window. I seem to remember something like this being developed for OpenZaurus years ago. I would have thought something like Xvfb or Xephyr could be modified to display output into a QWS window? If you don't like it? Ignore it. Make it better. Whatever. No one made a decision for _you_. True. Who am I to challenge the decisions of others? I understand that, but I just can't bare to see duplication of effort in community projects, it's such a waste of such talented people. But you can't please everyone; that's why there are different projects to fill different needs/requests. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Vincent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. Also, one possible solution to this would be to run an x server which outputed to a QWS window. I seem to remember something like this being developed for OpenZaurus years ago. I would have thought something like Xvfb or Xephyr could be modified to display output into a QWS window? If you don't like it? Ignore it. Make it better. Whatever. No one made a decision for _you_. True. Who am I to challenge the decisions of others? Because it is too late. :) I understand that, but I just can't bare to see duplication of effort in community projects, it's such a waste of such talented people. No it's not. Its the reason why opensource is so diverse and successful. Would you really say either gnome or is wasted effort and should be discontinued? Or vim/gnome,linux/bsd,gecko/webkit/mysql/postgres... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. So you're saying Qtopia makes it harder to port desktop applications designed to be used with a 17+ monitor, keyboard and mouse to a device with no buttons and a 2.8 touch screen. I'd argue that the problems with porting desktop applications are far greater than the underlying framework. Are there any instances of a desktop application being ported to the OpenMoko which is usable? The only one I've seen is gpaint on OpenHand's Poky Linux, and that looked fiddly at best. counter-example: claws for maemo. Full grown mailer. Little redesign on the GUI (Theme!) and suddenly the best mailer for maemo was born. Some fine tuning later and it felt just right on that platform. maemo-mapper. Best app for maemo. Was based on GPSDrive. pidgin and xchat where also made into mobile maemo apps with quite acceptable interfaces. And many other good examples are on maemo.org Graned, this are examples for the Nokia770 which has a bigger screen than the Neo. But i would say tit proves the point Tilman ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of major sections of the code. Also, one possible solution to this would be to run an x server which outputed to a QWS window. I seem to remember something like this being developed for OpenZaurus years ago. I would have thought something like Xvfb or Xephyr could be modified to display output into a QWS window? If you don't like it? Ignore it. Make it better. Whatever. No one made a decision for _you_. True. Who am I to challenge the decisions of others? I understand that, but I just can't bare to see duplication of effort in community projects, it's such a waste of such talented people. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 19:13 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen these benchmarks: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I believe Qtopia QT use the same code. So ignoring X, Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests. Hi, I'd just like to mention that OpenMoko is not using Cairo for rendering, so this comparison is not relevant to OpenMoko. We are currently using a temporary pixmap based theme. In fact, just this morning I started writing the replacement theme engine for OpenMoko that uses direct X rendering (that is, it uses GDK rather than Cairo). Since I was also testing Qtopia on the Neo1973 this morning, I can say that the speed of Qtopia rendering and the new GDK based engine I wrote are very similar. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Would you really say either gnome or is wasted effort and should be discontinued? Or vim/gnome,linux/bsd,gecko/webkit/mysql/postgres... Yes, it's my personal belief that these projects all represent wasted effort and that if they cooperated they'd achieve more. I always get a nice warm fuzzy feeling whenever I see a forked project merge (Compiz Fusion, Webkit/KHTML) PS: Thanks for the examples. It's by far the most convincing argument I've seen yet. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 18:00:51 Giles Jones wrote: Typically the argument for QT is ease of programming, there's a good IDE called KDevelop. GTK's argument typically is that it's GPL and faster. Actually. GTK's argument is that it is LGPL and thus free for use by commercial apps whereas Qt is GPL and closed source, so commercial developers need to license the SDK. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Scott Rushforth wrote: Phone calling works, for both incoming and outgoing calls, the only hitch was that I had to manually set the alsa levels using gsmhandset.state. That's a helpful hint. It appears to be the case that audio doesn't work for other apps as well - e.g., the alarm clock doesn't make any noise. I've also noticed that when I try to use bluetooth from Qtopia, my bluetooth daemon on my Mac hangs hard - it takes a reboot to get it back. Obviously a Mac bug, but it makes using the software a little painful, since I need my Mac to make it work. :'} Having played around with Qtopia now, I have a couple of observations. The UI is tight - it looks good, and generally does what you expect it to do. It's a lot more complete than the OpenMoko UI, so even people who love gtk might want to take a look at it for ideas. The dev kit appears to be linux-686 only for now, but it would be easy to build a set of gnu cross tools on OS X, so this would be an easy platform to target for people who are running OSX. The libraries in the current dev kit should work with the cross-compiler no matter what host is used. Someone said that they have invested a lot of work in GTK and wouldn't want to switch. I'd just like to point out that in general it's bad practice to deeply marry your back end and UI code, precisely because it leads you to this kind of thinking. You should try to keep them as separate as possible. It's a little extra work up front, but it pays off in a big way on the back end. Someone who wants to ultimately target OpenMoko/GTK, but wants a working phone now, might want to consider using Qtopia for now and then swapping out the Qtopia front-end for a GTK front-end later. Particularly if you're already familiar with GTK programming, this shouldn't be difficult. I think that the GTK front end for the Neo has a lot of potential that the Qtopia front end may miss, so a strategy that borrows from both systems would be good for us early adopters. Er, the dev kit appears to be missing openssl, which could be a problem. Also, announcements aside, I don't see a link to the source code on the Qtopia/Neo page, so not all promises have yet been kept. Trolltech has been really good about releasing source code in the past, so I'm not worried about this, but without source, developing will be more painful. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
A couple other differences, QT is C++ based, whereas GTK is C based, so depending on what your preferences are... Also, isn't GTK licenesed as LGPL, whereas QT is GPL? So commercial developers will need to pay for a seperate license for QT if they make non-GPL apps, whereas GTK's license is more commercial app friendly. Except why would someone want to put a closed source commercial application on your free software Neo? ;) -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Giles Jones wrote: Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : before someone beats me to it. http://trolltech.com/company/newsroom/announcements/press.2007-09-17.9260755578 Ironic given one of their Greenphone guys was slagging the OpenMoko project a while back. That greenphone guy was me. and if you read that actual post, I made no 'slagging' remarks about OpenMoko or their project. Some of my friends and colleagues, whom are very great engineers work for OpenMoko. The point I was making about that post is that the Neo was not the first open phone... -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Michael Schmidt wrote: Thanks, but why is the Neo phone not a small laptop? that all can be installed, at least for the needed libraries. So a GTK gui still makes sense... Greenphone then can as well join OPENMOKO platform, and if greenphone uses only QT, is then the GTK application working? - no, if the GTK-Library is not installed. So we need a software/library proove at the startup and a path to the extending memory card with the proove of the installed libraries.. And that for every phone... Why is this announcement done now, and the code of QTopia 4.3 released in late Oktober? This is a technical preview. This should be speeded up from the project management, as the applications cannot wait weeks with no coding... Thats why we released this as a tech preview, so people could start now... because Qtopia 4.3 is so much better than 4.2 And I guess in the later all will be QT... then the GTK is an old fashion as maybe laptop applicaitons as well switch from GTK to QT. This should be decided soon, a) if NEO gets enough RAM to run both b) if the operating system can have both libraries by default c) if there is a direction from the project management, wanting this or that for the new development.. d) why Qtopia is released so late.. as well the preview FTP of it is not working.. what is this for an annoucement??? server might be having problems. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
I think that the GTK front end for the Neo has a lot of potential that the Qtopia front end may miss, so a strategy that borrows from both systems would be good for us early adopters. Er, the dev kit appears to be missing openssl, which could be a problem. Also, announcements aside, I don't see a link to the source code on the Qtopia/Neo page, so not all promises have yet been kept. Trolltech has been really good about releasing source code in the past, so I'm not worried about this, but without source, developing will be more painful. Try ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/tech-preview/ -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18 Sep 2007, at 21:39, Lorn Potter wrote: That greenphone guy was me. and if you read that actual post, I made no 'slagging' remarks about OpenMoko or their project. Some of my friends and colleagues, whom are very great engineers work for OpenMoko. The point I was making about that post is that the Neo was not the first open phone... It just seems odd that you were suggesting OpenMoko wasn't that open, yet Qtopia was? yet it's all happy families now? I don't mind, it's just a very surprising move and IMHO a very welcome one. The mobile market is a hard one to succeed in, almost as bad as the games console market. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
Tilman Baumann wrote: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:45:51 +0200, Mauro Iazzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to say it but in my experience at least, its a dream developing apps using QT esp given the nice IDE in comparison to using GTK. QT just has the docs and organised feel which makes it easy. with the drawback that _everything_ will need to be Qt based Why is that? Qtopia is a complete application stack which is not based on the traditional technologies used in unix. Especially problematic is that they have a gui-server which works directly on the framebuffer. sort of like X11 on these devices.. You could also say that X11 doesn't play fair with direct fb access either. Not X11 like all other systems. This has better performance and is in my eyes the perfect solution for embedded devices. There is no great performance difference between x11 and fb. But that is the reason why you can not just compile any X11 application for the phone and run it. But this issue is more or less a non-issue, because there is a x-server for qtopia avaiblable. But if you want to have native applications which fit right in the framework you have to use Qt and C++. And the other problem is that QT has different views about things like PIM storage (addressbook, calendar ...), phone systems (gsmd vs. the qtopia phone-driver system) and so on. Both systems just don't fit very well together. And i like both concepts... Then dual boot. :) The Neo has an SD card and open uboot bootloader just waiting for a dual boot. But thats how it is. Opensource is just about freedom to choose. The more choices the better... Agreed. -- Lorn 'ljp' Potter Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On 18/09/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen these benchmarks: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I believe Qtopia QT use the same code. So ignoring X, Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests. Now factor in the fact that QWS has a lot less overhead than X and a smaller memory footprint. Can someone _please_ give me a technical reason why they believe GTK+ is better? The only arguments I've seen on this list are philosophical ones. The only technical argument has been that you can run applications on the phone and have them appear on your desktop thanks to X. Surely there is a better reason? I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to feel that the OpenMoko developer's ego is a big driving force behind developing the OpenMoko stack. You are shifting to the dark side... I'm all for KDE over Gnome, Qt ove Gtk, Vim over Emacs, but not at the level of saying there is no reason for others to exist. I would be lost if I were foced to use Emacs, I suppose the same is valid for an experienced Emacs user with Vim. The fact that Emacs is an inferior solution in every respect does not change that someone _needs_ it. I suggest you read this post over redundancy written by a prominent member of KDE community http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/7771.html He just says what many people already said. Redundancy is good. For innovation and choice, and because what X and Y want may be different. OpenMoko was designed. There surely were reasons for it to chose Gtk over Qt. While I don't know exactly, one of those may have been that a phone software based on Qt was already there, and it was not fully Open Source. If they chose Qt, what to do now that Qtopia is fully open (trust: Trolltech behaving badly is _inconceivable_). You can develop and install the one or the other freely. Redundancy is good. I don't think switching to Qt is an option for OpenMoko, because there is Qtopia for that. The choice has been done, and in my opinion, has been wise. You can chose which distro to support, or both if you can. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Sep 18, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Lorn Potter wrote: Try ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/tech-preview/ Sweet, thanks! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
opensource aerial photography project (was Re: OM Camera - a new angle)
On 19/09/2007, OJW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 18 September 2007 19:12, Ian Stirling wrote: It must have wi-max, and be able to fly up to several kilometers, to take pictures for use with the OM mapping system. Need to integrate with these guys... http://diydrones.com/ [phone with GPS and camera being used to fly a model aircraft, and send georeferenced photos back over the network] interesting stuff this has got me thinking - openstreetmap is progressing as a nice alternative to google maps and so on, but is there an open-source equivalent for the photography part of google maps/earth? something working in a similar way to osm, using photos taken by anybody, with a UAV or any airborne vehicle, and licensed under GNU FDL? this sort of technology is getting cheaper and cheaper, it's well within the price range of common people now ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opensource aerial photography project (was Re: OM Camera - a newangle)
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:56 +1200, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19/09/2007, OJW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 18 September 2007 19:12, Ian Stirling wrote: It must have wi-max, and be able to fly up to several kilometers, to take pictures for use with the OM mapping system. Need to integrate with these guys... http://diydrones.com/ [phone with GPS and camera being used to fly a model aircraft, and send georeferenced photos back over the network] interesting stuff this has got me thinking - openstreetmap is progressing as a nice alternative to google maps and so on, but is there an open-source equivalent for the photography part of google maps/earth? something working in a similar way to osm, using photos taken by anybody, with a UAV or any airborne vehicle, and licensed under GNU FDL? this sort of technology is getting cheaper and cheaper, it's well within the price range of common people now Yes there is, I beleive a friend shew me that in the osm editor (josm) I have to verify ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: opensource aerial photography project (was Re: OM Camera - a newangle)
Steven Le Roux wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:56 +1200, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19/09/2007, OJW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 18 September 2007 19:12, Ian Stirling wrote: It must have wi-max, and be able to fly up to several kilometers, to take pictures for use with the OM mapping system. Need to integrate with these guys... http://diydrones.com/ [phone with GPS and camera being used to fly a model aircraft, and send georeferenced photos back over the network] interesting stuff this has got me thinking - openstreetmap is progressing as a nice alternative to google maps and so on, but is there an open-source equivalent for the photography part of google maps/earth? something Yes there is, I beleive a friend shew me that in the osm editor (josm) It's not really. That's almost certainly the landsat/yahoo imagery plugin. The problem is the data. The imagery that would be gotten from a model aircraft style UAV is likely to be on the order of .1m/pixel. One UAV flying at 30m/s mapping a 100m swath gets around a gigabyte of compressed data over an area of 10 square kilometers. At this resolution, a small country - the netherlands, for example, can be mapped in 4000 hours, yielding 4Tb of data. For larger countries, this is much, much worse. USA, for example is 10 million km^2 or so, and needs 1000Tb. Ok - this is maybe $1M or so in drives and boxes to stick them in, which might be raised somehow. The bandwidth bills is what will kill you. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973 (third, not second, Linux GPL'd phone stack).
Please remember that this is the third, not the second, Linux-based phone stack for the Neo1973. Sun, at JavaOne in May, showed a working prototype of a Linux-based Java phone stack running on the Neo1973. There are many pictures of this on the web (look in the Press page on the OpenMoko wiki). The Java stack is based on JavaFX Mobile about which there are not many details- it is based on Sun's acquisition of Savaje technology - but there is a promise that it, too, will be GPL'd in good time. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Making GPRS/pppd connection.
I managed to connect and it's very nice and stable. All with help of SettingsGUI by Kriss. -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
