Re: Unofficial poll: / 3G Network Sheepshearing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | I myself am also much closer to Hugo. If I want access to data, I'm | usually near someplace with wireless access and would rather use Wifi I have a little experience recently with 3G data access... it worked well when stationary but completely failed while in a moving train. When it worked it was cool though. However, getting an account at the provider 3 in the UK was like being a sheep showing up to get sheared. After I explained what I wanted they insisted to test my credit card to confirm my PIN and then my physical address. They tried to upsell me to an 18 month contract on the basis that is was GBP45 cheaper since they halve the price of the data access and give me a free phone, but in fact comparing 12 months of payments against 18 months, this is GBP45 more expensive and you are locked in for longer, so no thanks. Then they asked me if I was married -- I replied it was none of their business. The salesperson explained that it was needed for a credit check. I shrugged, so they proposed a Pay as You Go method, it charges the same GBP15 for 3GB access, but in order to stop everybody avoiding the contract lock-in, they destroy any remaining transfer allowance 30 days after you started using it. Outrageous! And if you went over your limit in transfer, you are charged GBP10 per MB -- per MB! Watching a 25 minute vid on Youtube like that and suddenly you owe them GBP800. Of course this stops anyone getting even near their transfer limit in 30 days through sheer terror, to the benefit of the network provider. Further, in order to find your remaining balance you have to sign up at a website, but they insist to send your login password via SMS. I don't have a 3G phone -- now what do we do? When we talk about the possibility to use freely shared WLAN vs a telephony network connection we shouldn't ignore the collateral damage of becoming a customer of these satanic sheepshearing factories. I guess most people are beaten down to expect this experience otherwise we would see more foaming at the mouth rants like this one. | We are starting to see a push to integrate WiMAX WiFi into the same | chipsets and this will only become more common. I think WiFi is popular I think a good general rule is to only push your luck in one domain at a time. Arguably we push our luck in several places at once already. WiMax doesn't really exist yet despite the hype, betting everything on a technology that is a bit slow to mature and not widely adopted by carriers (yet) would be pretty dangerous for our health I think. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf/CsYACgkQOjLpvpq7dMq1FwCffyZJ0eB6LiRRx3S+WtiRnH83 fFMAn2ns4Z4Dth3LqBYpa6sLKwf5vxt0 =WwKs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Who is who ?
Philippe Guillebert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since I'm also French, maybe if some more people fill these pages we could meet somewhere (in Paris ?) and dream about GTA02 ;) (Sorry to hijack the thread.) In case some Frenchies here didn't see the announce: https://linuxfr.org/2008/04/08/23941.html I will be demoing a GTA01 (not a 02) there. Regards, -- Lucas Bonnet Bearstech - http://bearstech.com pgp01bmOEjSqU.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Anyways, I guess that for GTA02 you could always get one of those usb-3g | modems and use it. The problem will probably be the usual where to get | linux drivers for something like that. The one I got is well supported under Linux, it presents as two ttyUSB and one Mass Storage class device. wvdial with a canned config just worked on it. http://www.three.co.uk/personal/mobiles_/discover.omp?CID=1193835363623 In fact AFAIK this device should work OK on a GTA02 in host mode, if it doesn't exceed the 500mA limit on there. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf/L1cACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqOhQCghWREGS2rXOlHhEJbQfmldLx0 B2cAnj+1xxFVP1082Ndug5hIWaS5QpUt =zI1/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03?
Personally, I'm one of those who don't have a data plan, and that most of the times are in range of wifi access, but in my opinion the next OM should have at least wifi and HDSPA 3G or something like that. I don't think it's very useful to consider wimax because currently you see that nowhere, and 3G is pretty well deployed in most countries by now. Anyways, I guess that for GTA02 you could always get one of those usb-3g modems and use it. The problem will probably be the usual where to get linux drivers for something like that. Ivo On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:05 AM, Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 4:26 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:28:02PM -0500, Mark Arvidson wrote: I use my phone's EDGE capabilities while riding across Texas to the next family event... As it is, I don't use Wifi much (of course, I don't have it on my phone yet). There are very few free places to use it around here, and their ranges are rather limited. Traveling at 75 mph down a highway means hotspots come and go in a few seconds, so that's not even a potential problem solver for me. I'm almost precisely the opposite use case. I'm almost always somewhere with stable wireless access. I don't really care too much about fast data access over the phone network, but having 802.11(whatever) in the device is a must for me. Hugo. I myself am also much closer to Hugo. If I want access to data, I'm usually near someplace with wireless access and would rather use Wifi because it is free or cheaper. I also don't think it's wise to drive down a highway and using a browser, email, or typing in the terminal (hopefully you're the passenger) - but WiMAX could provide that capability. We are starting to see a push to integrate WiMAX WiFi into the same chipsets and this will only become more common. I think WiFi is popular enough the integration of WiMAX would make it questionable to not include these technologies together warrant a seperate module for WiFi/WiMax. Wouldn't the areas that currently support 3G also be more likely to quickly adopt a 4G technology like WiMax? Why not skip 3G and go straight to 4G? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA02 USB Power (WAS: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?)
Hmm, thats very cool indeed, although [1] and the original announcement of it do say 100ma. I guess I'll go out and edit them Cheers, Federico [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Don't you mean 100ma, or has the converter been upgraded? In any case | running a device that draws 500ma off a 1200mah battery... I never heard about a 100mA proposal: the converter in GTA02 is not only 500mA-capable but is configured for 500mA limit with a 14K resistor on the SET pin. http://www.analogictech.com/products/ProductDisplay.aspx?ProductID=192 http://www.analogictech.com/products/digitalfiles/AAT1275.pdf For current consumption, it will be pretty variable on that device. If you transmit it will do its worst, if it receives it might not be too bad at all. Transmit will be pretty low duty cycle in normal use. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf/NWgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrDCACeKBv2HEPt4tEvysGf1IFdcFOa RgUAoIaQI6ftXCR5uMtmfBsgKiF34Mgj =syZb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off. On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?
Don't you mean 100ma, or has the converter been upgraded? In any case running a device that draws 500ma off a 1200mah battery... Cheers, Federico -- Mail sent from a SE P990 Reply Header Subject:Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA03? Author: Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11th April 2008 9:33 am -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Anyways, I guess that for GTA02 you could always get one of those usb-3g | modems and use it. The problem will probably be the usual where to get | linux drivers for something like that. The one I got is well supported under Linux, it presents as two ttyUSB and one Mass Storage class device. wvdial with a canned config just worked on it. http://www.three.co.uk/personal/mobiles_/discover.omp?CID=1193835363623 In fact AFAIK this device should work OK on a GTA02 in host mode, if it doesn't exceed the 500mA limit on there. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf/L1cACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqOhQCghWREGS2rXOlHhEJbQfmldLx0 B2cAnj+1xxFVP1082Ndug5hIWaS5QpUt =zI1/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:05:38 +0100 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Well, it's not vertical in pocket, but other than that... This is a great idea. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89/Cap_J_L_Picard on irc) http://ewanm89.co.uk/ Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | Don't you mean 100ma, or has the converter been upgraded? In any case | running a device that draws 500ma off a 1200mah battery... I never heard about a 100mA proposal: the converter in GTA02 is not only 500mA-capable but is configured for 500mA limit with a 14K resistor on the SET pin. http://www.analogictech.com/products/ProductDisplay.aspx?ProductID=192 http://www.analogictech.com/products/digitalfiles/AAT1275.pdf For current consumption, it will be pretty variable on that device. If you transmit it will do its worst, if it receives it might not be too bad at all. Transmit will be pretty low duty cycle in normal use. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf/NWgACgkQOjLpvpq7dMrDCACeKBv2HEPt4tEvysGf1IFdcFOa RgUAoIaQI6ftXCR5uMtmfBsgKiF34Mgj =syZb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
Sounds like a good idea, except for people who carry their phone in a bag, but definitely useful as an option nonetheless. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off. On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accelerometer thought
Brilliant. Would provide an excellent starting point from which further and possibly more sophisticated profile switching on accelerometer feedback. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:13 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: accelerometer thought It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
Ortwin Regel writes: On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off. Being able to change ring/volume/vibrate settings easily is vital, no matter what they are. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
Tim Shannon writes: Sounds like a good idea, except for people who carry their phone in a bag, but definitely useful as an option nonetheless. Sure -- I was careful to say *my* use! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Synchronization
This topic was discussed a while ago, and I didn't heard anything about it since then (but since I missed a month or two it can already be clear by now.. I for myself don't know). I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds? GPS data? files? Sorry for the unclear questions and the bad English, I hope I made my question clear.. best regards, Stefan Insam -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Synchronization
ramsesoriginal writes: This topic was discussed a while ago, and I didn't heard anything about it since then (but since I missed a month or two it can already be clear by now.. I for myself don't know). I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds? GPS data? files? Sorry for the unclear questions and the bad English, I hope I made my question clear.. best regards, Stefan Insam I've synced anything I've wanted to (going to/from a linux box) using 'rsync -auv' ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Synchronization
On Fri, April 11, 2008 3:57 pm, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: ramsesoriginal writes: [snip] ... I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds? GPS data? files? I've synced anything I've wanted to (going to/from a linux box) using 'rsync -auv' I don't think ramsesoriginal was asking about syncing the filesystem which you would sync with rsync, but about synchronizing his address book (contacts) calendar etc. In general the solution is to use SyncML, which is an open standard for synchronization between phones, desktop computers, and internet sync servers. It can use a variety of transports including bluetooth and TCP/IP, and works by exchanging vCard files, for contacts, and similar vCal etc files for calendar events and the like. It should be fairly easy to port a sync client or server to Open Moko. I have done some experimenting with syncing my Nokia phone with my Linux desktop. The syncing part went fairly well, the problem was that Kontact would not play nice as a sync target, so I was only able to sync the contacts DB on my phone with a directory full of vCard files on my Linux box, rather than with my groupware client which is what I was really trying to achieve. Proper sync support is on the roadmap for the next version of Kontact, so everything should work properly fairly soon. I am eagerly awaiting the next Ubuntu release in order to give that a try. Another exciting possibly is that seeing as the OpenMoko phone is a full Linux computer it could be used as a Sync server, making it possible to sync with another cellphone without the need for a normal computer. If we could have that as a standard feature on the consumer version of the Freerunner it would be very cool. -- David Pottage Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Synchronization
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, April 11, 2008 3:57 pm, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: ramsesoriginal writes: [snip] ... I am speaking about the synchronization between the phone and other devise, could it be PC, a MAC, another phone, or even just Google calendar. Which way of synchronization has been chose? Which standards? Are there some branded or at least recommended clients? _What_ can be synchronized: contacts? calendar? rss feeds? GPS data? files? I've synced anything I've wanted to (going to/from a linux box) using 'rsync -auv' I don't think ramsesoriginal was asking about syncing the filesystem which you would sync with rsync, but about synchronizing his address book (contacts) calendar etc. Exactly! I personally can use whatever, but a consumer-device needs the ability to sync in an easy way, In general the solution is to use SyncML, which is an open standard for synchronization between phones, desktop computers, and internet sync servers. It can use a variety of transports including bluetooth and TCP/IP, and works by exchanging vCard files, for contacts, and similar vCal etc files for calendar events and the like. It should be fairly easy to port a sync client or server to Open Moko. Ok, that sounds good. Is this system also supported by mainstream applications? I think of the secretary who uses outlook, or maybe thunderbird.. Anotehr question is if this would also allow to sync other infromation like geodata/tags, feed list (and the read/unread status of the feeds), etc.. is there already some standard for that, or would we have to start from scratch? I have done some experimenting with syncing my Nokia phone with my Linux desktop. The syncing part went fairly well, the problem was that Kontact would not play nice as a sync target, so I was only able to sync the contacts DB on my phone with a directory full of vCard files on my Linux box, rather than with my groupware client which is what I was really trying to achieve. Proper sync support is on the roadmap for the next version of Kontact, so everything should work properly fairly soon. I am eagerly awaiting the next Ubuntu release in order to give that a try. And here I think of something: many people use web-based applications. Is there also a plan to sync with those? Another exciting possibly is that seeing as the OpenMoko phone is a full Linux computer it could be used as a Sync server, making it possible to sync with another cellphone without the need for a normal computer. If we could have that as a standard feature on the consumer version of the Freerunner it would be very cool. Now this Sounds like a pretty cool and innovative idea. This would allow also for some neat functions like copying of contacts at code signing partys, or vCard exchanges at buisness meetings without the need of some fixed computer. -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Who is who ?
we actually wanted to promote local groups so we created a special product for them -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Guillebert Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:11 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Who is who ? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm french too :) And I was looking for these information several month ago. I wonder if we can do a group of french people, like the german group, and do some valuable work (i18n ?). Hello all, Just to point out that there are also Local groups in the wiki to allow local meetings of people interested in the project. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups Since I'm also French, maybe if some more people fill these pages we could meet somewhere (in Paris ?) and dream about GTA02 ;) See you -- Phyce ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: / 3G Network Sheepshearing
Well put! I could not agree more. It is expensive to use wireless internet connection over the mobile network. I understand the reasons and the providers. They have several reasons for the high prices: - The network is not designed for so much traffic and will break down if everybody look at youtube videos from their mobile phone. - Here (in Norway) it is not so many people per square meter, which means it is very expensive to upgrade the network - Why upgrade to a bad technology now, when nobody wants it in a few years? - If they do an upgrade, their general rule is that they should be able to earn in the money within 3 years (really not so strange) Here we pay about 4 USD per MB after we used up the 20MB we get each month (that we payed 60 monthly USD for). We can get a unlimited (only limited by the speed of 380kb/s) for 100 USD/month. To compare, 100Mb/s sync fiber (unlimitedd, and with IP phone, static public IP and IPTV) to the house cost around 80 USD/month but is not available all places. So, my conclusion is that Internet access over the mobile network is practical when you really need to check something and you are far away from a landline. For everything else, wifi has come to stay. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Very reasonable. Is there any chance you guys could update your website to take Amex? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:51 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
what about EUROS prices?? I hope that no 1:1 change will be applied... thanks a lot for the news!! Andrea 2008/4/11, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Excellent, thanks for the update! On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:50 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
Hi, I just talked about this issue with a colleague who uses an HTC PDA with windows mobile. For the data connection he uses a dial-up connection as a modem. He doesn't have a data plan but a flat fee for voice calls into land lines. He says he gets about up to 4K/s which is not much of course but it's still possible to view light websites or emails with it. (I would not want to use it with Google Maps for example which is one of the key features why I would want mobile internet access.) So I don't think it's impossible. Maybe the hardware and the codecs are different on OpenMoko but I doubt that this is an obstacle that cannot be overcome. All best, Stefan ramsesoriginal wrote: By applying some sort of modulation (fm? am? psm?) it should be possible to transfere data over gsm, but on a much lower speed then through the data channel. On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:22:10AM -0400, Dan Staley wrote: Does anyone know if it is legal (in the standard TOS) with providers (such as ATnT) to send data over a normal phone call? this is not possible, since regular voice calls for GSM are not bit-transparent, i.e. the voice signal is coded and potentially re-coded (transcoded) a number of time between the calling and receiving party. Data calls over GSM are done using CSD. They also use quite a lot more error correction than voice calls. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about EUROS prices?? IF, and this is an IF, it works as it did with the GTA01, the USD price is technically incorrect. When i paid, it charged my debit card for $309 worth of Taiwan dollars. I would imagine that your bank would be charged the amount of Euros needed to convert to $399 worth of taiwan dollars, if that makes sense. -Kevin I hope that no 1:1 change will be applied... thanks a lot for the news!! Andrea 2008/4/11, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Thanks for the update, looking forward to having a neo of my own :) Ivo On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about EUROS prices?? IF, and this is an IF, it works as it did with the GTA01, the USD price is technically incorrect. When i paid, it charged my debit card for $309 worth of Taiwan dollars. I would imagine that your bank would be charged the amount of Euros needed to convert to $399 worth of taiwan dollars, if that makes sense. -Kevin I hope that no 1:1 change will be applied... thanks a lot for the news!! Andrea 2008/4/11, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
this is the news we all have been waiting for:) And it is a very nice price also. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Thanks for the update, sounds good, but what about the UK? and Europe? Many thanks, james On 11/04/2008, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the update, looking forward to having a neo of my own :) Ivo On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about EUROS prices?? IF, and this is an IF, it works as it did with the GTA01, the USD price is technically incorrect. When i paid, it charged my debit card for $309 worth of Taiwan dollars. I would imagine that your bank would be charged the amount of Euros needed to convert to $399 worth of taiwan dollars, if that makes sense. -Kevin I hope that no 1:1 change will be applied... thanks a lot for the news!! Andrea 2008/4/11, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Tel: 00447809457487 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.happyjames.co.uk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Fantastic! Looking forward to it! On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:30 PM, James Olney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the update, sounds good, but what about the UK? and Europe? Many thanks, james On 11/04/2008, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the update, looking forward to having a neo of my own :) Ivo On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about EUROS prices?? IF, and this is an IF, it works as it did with the GTA01, the USD price is technically incorrect. When i paid, it charged my debit card for $309 worth of Taiwan dollars. I would imagine that your bank would be charged the amount of Euros needed to convert to $399 worth of taiwan dollars, if that makes sense. -Kevin I hope that no 1:1 change will be applied... thanks a lot for the news!! Andrea 2008/4/11, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ___ Tel: 00447809457487 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.happyjames.co.uk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Listening to music/podcasts
Hi Freerunners! I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call (as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of course). Best Regards, Jens ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
FW: Mobile Analytics - April 28th
Just in case anyone on the OpenMoko list is in NY this might interest you as well. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: Dean Collins Sent: Friday, 11 April 2008 2:54 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Mobile Analytics - April 28th For those of you that have an interest in mobile analytics, come one come all. http://mobilemonday-ny.com/2008/04/11/april-28th-at-mobile-monday-ny-soc ial-search-mobile-analytics/ It will be an interesting and fiery night as www.Amethon.com http://www.amethon.com/ and the other vendors have very interesting and different views on mobile analytics and what it takes to deliver what you the customers want. Would be great to get some people from the newtech list who actually have deployed mobile content or are thinking of deploying mobile content to come along and offer their own opinions. If you want more information on Amethon's solution checkout http://www.amethon.com/Content_Common/pg-Mobile-Analytics.seo otherwise see you on the night. Regards, Dean Collins USA Business Development Amethon Solutions Pty Ltd http://www.amethon.com/ 34 West 120th St, Suite 3, New York, NY, 10027 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 646-240-4043 image001.gif___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko strives for openness
Sorry for the delay in commenting, not been keeping up with the MLs. Michael Shiloh wrote: snip - Merge the debug board function on to the phone, perhaps with internal micro USB used for debricking and hacking. No write-once memory. - Discard U-Boot, minimal bootloader direct to kernel - Focus on SD Card rootfs rather than internal memory - Add a small lowpower MPU like TI MPS430 to manage everything seamlessly when main CPU is down. Stuff like motion sensors, wake sources, battery management, maybe touchscreen, leds so there is an always-on guiding hand in the phone that is consistent and reliable There are some MCUs that can help with several of these aims. For example - the STM32F103Tx - QFN36, not too large, 32 bit, USB, 10K RAM, 64K ROM, SPI with SD/MMC support, 10 A/D and $3ish in qty. I'd envision this connected to JTAG on the SoC, with all the buttons and LEDs and the above connected to it, and connected in parallel with the USB outside port that would for example: Battery insertion with button held down then USB plugged in: Act like existing debug board, do JTAG things, maybe even talk to SD card over SPI acting as a mass storage device. USB plugged in - battery flat: Do host negotiation for more power, play tune or flash charging LED at user, flash to indicate how much we're charging, and if we can power up. Normal condition - suspended: Talk to GSM modem over serial about stuff, poll accelerometers, maybe even listen to mic for user. Are there any models completely lacking NAND flash, that are cheaper? If the above was used, and was also connected to the SD, it could have a simple stupid 'read block 0 on the SD, and boot using JTAG' BIOS. This could potentially delete the NOR flash, the NAND flash, and some of the glue. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Synchronization
Hi Ramses, On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 18:17 +0200, ramsesoriginal wrote: snip / And here I think of something: many people use web-based applications. Is there also a plan to sync with those? Has anyone tried using Conduit[1]? AFAIK it's slanted to be included in the next version of Gnome. Another exciting possibly is that seeing as the OpenMoko phone is a full Linux computer it could be used as a Sync server, making it possible to sync with another cellphone without the need for a normal computer. If we could have that as a standard feature on the consumer version of the Freerunner it would be very cool. Now this Sounds like a pretty cool and innovative idea. This would allow also for some neat functions like copying of contacts at code signing partys, or vCard exchanges at buisness meetings without the need of some fixed computer. -Tim [1] http://www.conduit-project.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Data over normal GSM call
Diego Fdez. Durán wrote: snip Can't you initiate a voice call between to FreeRunners and then use the mic and mixer devs to modulate the data as sound? Broadly yes. The problem is: A human making mobile - mobile call looks something like this. 1 microphone 2 analog-digital converter 3 GSM encoder 4 radio transmission 5 Add errors due to sunspots 6 radio reception 7 GSM decoder 8 ISDN-like 8KHz 8 bit sampling over mobile companies network 9 Public switched telephone network And then back again in reverse - with all the codec senses flipped. Any analog modem signal has to get through the GSM codec - twice - and survive bit errors. GSM is designed so that single bit errors make audibly similar output - but not similar numerically. The GSM codec is basically designed to throw away anything that is not voice-like. If you have a perfect radio channel, and can get at the digital data that would normally go to/from the codec (step 3) it won't help much for 'normal' modems - as you still have the GSM encode/decode cycle at the network side. In reality, what you have to do to push any sort of data through this link is to basically have a data-driven vocoder at one side, that gabbles - but makes sounds that could in principle be made by human throats, and a voice recogniser at the other end. This can get 1300bits/sec. CSD - 'data' GSM calls are different. Instead of using the normal GSM codec, they use a special codec that is designed for error-free data transmission. This can be broken out and transmitted over the normal phone network and end up in a device like an ISDN modem. Some ISPs 'normal' modems actually support this by default, so dialing just works. However, though this would be really nice to use - it's not free, and in many countries/telcos costs significant amounts to enable. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
On 4/11/08, Jens Fursund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Freerunners!
I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from
a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast
stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button
on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a
feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call
comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call
(as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of
course).
This is a great idea.
I think the the headset only have one button for muting the mic. But not
sure. If that is the case, we can easely solve it by capturing the input
from the mic when an incomming call arrives, and if the mic is muted for at
least one second, we can answer the call. Or we could do voice recognition.
If you say hello when a call arrives, it answers the call... etc. Anyway,
there should be no problem implementing some solution where you don't need
to touch the phone. This is very nice if your phone is in you pocket while
you are driving, etc. Also, it is nice when you use a BT headset. I
think the solution of grabbing input from the mic could be simple, because
it would be done equally no matter if you use BT/wired headset or any
other kind of handsfree. But if we have a button on the headset, we just
check for a key press.
A pseudo code to better explain my idea:
int handle_incomming_gsm_call()
{
...
if (handsfree_has_ans_btn)
{
/* avoid the overhead of comparing sound if the
* handsfree has an answering button */
if (hansfree_ans_btn == pushed)
gsm_answer_call();
}
else if (mic_input_ans(mic_dev, snd_accept))
{
/* matches the caracteristics from the mic input stream
* with the caracteristics of an 1 second long wav file
* much like strstr() matches a string with a stream
*
* The snd_accept is an user recorded file which can be silence or
* or any other sound the user prefers to answer the call with
*/
gsm_answer_call();
}
}
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Re: Unofficial poll: / 3G Network Sheepshearing
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Here we pay about 4 USD per MB after we used up the 20MB we get each month (that we payed 60 monthly USD for). We can get a unlimited (only limited by the speed of 380kb/s) for 100 USD/month. To compare, 100Mb/s sync fiber (unlimitedd, and with IP phone, static public IP and IPTV) to the house cost around 80 USD/month but is not available all places. So, my conclusion is that Internet access over the mobile network is practical when you really need to check something and you are far away from a landline. For everything else, wifi has come to stay. Your country may vary. Here (UK) for $20 per month, you get a gigabyte at about 380K/s, or 3G for $60. (in addition to the costs of a normal voice contract) For me - that's pretty much good enough - unless I want to do streaming. My conclusion is that it varies so enormously that generalisations aren't really practical. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: / 3G Network Sheepshearing
On 4/11/08, Ian Stirling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: Here we pay about 4 USD per MB after we used up the 20MB we get each month (that we payed 60 monthly USD for). We can get a unlimited (only limited by the speed of 380kb/s) for 100 USD/month. To compare, 100Mb/s sync fiber (unlimitedd, and with IP phone, static public IP and IPTV) to the house cost around 80 USD/month but is not available all places. So, my conclusion is that Internet access over the mobile network is practical when you really need to check something and you are far away from a landline. For everything else, wifi has come to stay. Your country may vary. Here (UK) for $20 per month, you get a gigabyte at about 380K/s, or 3G for $60. (in addition to the costs of a normal voice contract) For me - that's pretty much good enough - unless I want to do streaming. My conclusion is that it varies so enormously that generalisations aren't really practical. I must move to UK:) You are so lucky! -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Listening to music/podcasts
Glad you like the idea. Actually I thought that the answer call/hang
up - feature was something that every headset was able to control. I
have never used headsets so it is a first for me.
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 4/11/08, Jens Fursund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Freerunners!
I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from
a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast
stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button
on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a
feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call
comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call
(as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of
course).
This is a great idea.
I think the the headset only have one button for muting the mic. But not
sure. If that is the case, we can easely solve it by capturing the input
from the mic when an incomming call arrives, and if the mic is muted for at
least one second, we can answer the call. Or we could do voice recognition.
If you say hello when a call arrives, it answers the call... etc. Anyway,
there should be no problem implementing some solution where you don't need
to touch the phone. This is very nice if your phone is in you pocket while
you are driving, etc. Also, it is nice when you use a BT headset. I think
the solution of grabbing input from the mic could be simple, because it
would be done equally no matter if you use BT/wired headset or any other
kind of handsfree. But if we have a button on the headset, we just check for
a key press.
A pseudo code to better explain my idea:
int handle_incomming_gsm_call()
{
...
if (handsfree_has_ans_btn)
{
/* avoid the overhead of comparing sound if the
* handsfree has an answering button */
if (hansfree_ans_btn == pushed)
gsm_answer_call();
}
else if (mic_input_ans(mic_dev, snd_accept))
{
/* matches the caracteristics from the mic input stream
* with the caracteristics of an 1 second long wav file
* much like strstr() matches a string with a stream
*
* The snd_accept is an user recorded file which can be silence or
* or any other sound the user prefers to answer the call with
*/
gsm_answer_call();
}
}
--
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:50 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). So is there any news/update on the final inventory that will be in the box with the Freerunner? Also, great work on reaching this milestone and thanks for letting everyone know! Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
next costumers location
What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
I missed the answer, if any, to this. Is the "Gooseneck" Car Holder still available? regards Martin Peter Trapp wrote: On Donnerstag, 27. März 2008, steve wrote: Maybe I just create a "spares" product? with 3 batteries, and some other goodies thrown in? What goodies would go in that bag? In one of the first announcements there was a car holder (including a car charger). Do they still/already exist? cheers - homyx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
2008/4/11, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) I think we could use local groups pages for that... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Milan maybe creating a new section about ordering... ciao Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did one here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales Maybe it would be better to use the Local groups pages ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:OpenMoko_Local_Groups ) to organize group sales... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
Have made a Group sale for Bodø, Nordland in Norway now. We are two from here Alexander Frøyseth Steven Le Roux skrev: I did one here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group Sales (was : Re: next costumers location)
More explicit with the subject On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have made a Group sale for Bodø, Nordland in Norway now. We are two from here Alexander Frøyseth Steven Le Roux skrev: I did one here : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. This is only an idea and a usual thing that i do with my friends when buying something from US or other countries. If someone find this useful can set up such a page? i don't know how to use a wiki (yes, i know, i should learn how to use it but now i don't want to do that :D) Cya! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ Openmoko community mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED]://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Smart LCD birght/dim...
Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/). Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is, but it's the only thing we have: 1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the phone can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor, it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your latitude (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD brightness. Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is gone you won't need so much luminance... 2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for each hour of each week day the presumed luminance, using something like a calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day from 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals I don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my calendar that on such interval I'll be indoor... I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why don't educate your phone for it!? 3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection available I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for example) from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these informations with points 1 and 2) What do you think about them? I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if they won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a smart workaround. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano ha scritto: What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded. Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)... So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price. I agree, btw I think that it will be cheaper also if on a city we can't group 10 people, simply we'll order on the most requested city, and from there we'll ship to other buyers... Standard shipping in Italy should be just 8€ more: that's definitely lower than 30$ :P... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Smart LCD bright/dim...
Ops... Sorry for the title typo :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...
On Apr 11, 2008, at 5:50 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you think about them? With the absence of a hardware sensor, I think this is a good starting point. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/). Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is, but it's the only thing we have: 1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the phone can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor, it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your latitude (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD brightness. Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is gone you won't need so much luminance... 2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for each hour of each week day the presumed luminance, using something like a calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day from 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals I don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my calendar that on such interval I'll be indoor... I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why don't educate your phone for it!? 3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection available I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for example) from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these informations with points 1 and 2) What do you think about them? I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if they won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a smart workaround. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex heuristics we're 1) going to get it wrong 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than we save by them. -Nick ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
