Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes
Actually it is incredibly accurate only if you use PPS output otherwise idea of having atomic clock in your pocket goes out of the window. Richard Guest pravi: GPS essentially *is* accurate timing... GPS satellites are flying atomic clocks. Trimble has a good GPS tutorial - http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.shtml Almost all Digital Seismometers have a GPS interface to get the accurate timing they require. On 20/04/2008, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat April 19 2008 5:52:14 pm Ortwin Regel wrote: Yes, AFAIK GPS requires accurate time to function. Ortwin On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat April 19 2008 5:29:50 pm Richard Guest wrote: Yeah, it's an interesting idea. I read something similar on Evil Mad Scientist http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/seismometry2 The detection/pinpointing part requires both accurate detection of shaking and timing - obviously the timing is critical for triangulation. I think the *cool* factor for something like this would be the ability to measure a persons actual physical experience of an earthquake. There are *lots* of existing seismometers that will do the *fixed* point detection a whole lot better, but none (that I know of) that will be (relatively) unobtrusive to the users daily life and still give an actual measurement of physical shaking intensity. You shouldn't have to wait that long for e/q info... In New Zealand the news media mostly regurgitate what we post on http://www.geonet.org.nz/ There's near-realtime shaking info on the front page, and if there's actually an earthquake people can submit a Felt Report to tell us how they experienced it. It would be really cool to see how a personal accelerometer trace correlates to the fuzzy-logic of the felt report! End thoughts... -- Rich On 20/04/2008, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized the potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes. What this is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the Freerunner. From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect and measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1] If the Freerunner's accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed ground, we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload accelerometer data to a database. Many different devices running this could provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least fairly accurately), pinpoint an epicenter. This data could become useful to researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster than almost any news network would provide. Thoughts? [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Wouldn't GPS provide an accurate time? I thought GPS sends its own official time, like an atomic clock. I could be wrong. Anyone know more about this? -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community When I used a bluetooth GPS with my laptop, I notices the gpsd output had a different time than my system clock showed, so I assume GPS provides its own clock. -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Will Freerunner Be Available to Purchase in Australia ?
Hi all, I have seen much discussion on this list with respect to Freerunner only being available to purchase in the US and Europe. Can someone please confirm whether or not Freerunner will be able to bought in Australia also ? Cheers -aW IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework - reply
Dear Ron/Community: This confusion comes from time latency of series of events, but no matter A5 or A6 should all apply the LED transistor change. I already update all the changes that shipping A5 will apply. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#GTA02_mass_roduction_version_change_list If your A5 don't have these changes, either you are lucky prototype users, or pure sample sent by sales. The full event time line like this: 2008 Early March: Werner/Andy found this potential LED leakage issue under some LED ON power scheme 2008 Mid/Late March: Allen_Chang try several transistor vendors, to replace original transistor, during this time DVT4 units are produced without apply this change 2008 Early April: Finally transistor vendor provide 200 pcs transistor for experiment, Allen and Willie/Miles verified that this transistor could work on boards and fits our production software/process. So this components was approved. But due to quantiles limit, the same time PVT1 and PVT2 pre_MP units don't _All_ apply these changes. As I known, all the PVT and pre-MP units will ship back Taipei for RD usage and sample, won't ship to customers. Tony Tu Ron K. Jeffries wrote: OpenMoko team: It's crazy to consider shipping the GTA02v5 without the rework to solve the current leakage issue. Yes, people are REALLY anxious to get this phone. But shipping a few thousand of units that do not meet spec on standby time is a Bad Idea. pull up your socks and do the rework if that delays launch by 30 days so be it. besides the firmware will be better by then as well. ;) -ron jeffries. CONTEXT: -- Forwarded message -- From: Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:30:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future Button and LED software spec) On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds to me as the problem is easy for those of us that knows a little electronics. If I get one that leaks current, I will start soldering! Does anybody know if the fix Werner is talking about, will be done for all GTA02v5 PCB's? If it really will be a fix for it, it will not be any problem at all. Yes maybe it can be fixed. But is the fix documented yet? Another way to look at it: if the fix can be done without a PCB change, then why not get the factory to do the rework (swapping transistors or whatever) before they are shipped? How much would it cost to get that done in China? -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com http://twitter.com/RonKJeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework - reply
Subject: Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework - reply Date: dom 20 apr 08 05:15:29 +0800 Quoting Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): This confusion comes from time latency of series of events, but no matter A5 or A6 should all apply the LED transistor change. THANKS! Very refreshing reading. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6?
Dear Tim: Why this? Why not selling v6 directly? And... Which are other diffs between v5 and v6? I think that the power usage of every element of the phone is vital. This part could also be fixed on A5. And we don't have mass production A6 PCB yet, the 100 pcs sample A6 factory made some mistake on GSM and basically non-usable for release. As I known, mass production A6 PCB still not at factory yet. Function wise, A5 and A6 almost identically same, even for our internal developer, we don't have plan to switch their A5 to A6 once available, because it's just functional in same way. Tony Tu ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Do we REALLY need a phone?
(sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Freerunner Be Available to Purchase in Australia ?
0n Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 08:06:38PM +1000, clare wrote: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Community and count the people in the Australian capital cities you will get about 10. These will all have bought from the US last time. So the likelihood of getting 10 together in any one city is small. There is more interest this time around, so more than that will probably be sold, but the idea of a supplier I think is far-fetched. Do you have a bunch of buyers lined up? or an interested reseller? Importing from the US is easy enough, Thanks, I will just order from the US then. Waiting anxiously :) -aW IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales in Denmark
Sunday 20 April 2008 skrev Jens Fursund: Just wanted to put the word out! We are five people in Denmark trying to make a group sale, so if anyone is interested please go to the Group Sales wiki-site and put your name in the list. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales Best Regards, Jens Good call, thanks! i should've probably tossed out a mail like this when i first created that country in there, so thanks! :) -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://www.leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
I this mail is great. I totally agree! Sure, as Marco said, if no phone is still produced, and the change is minimal, then it would be better to start proucing right away with he improved versions.But I think most people can live with a brighter led, even if that means some battery life less. On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pe, 2008-04-18 kello 21:57 -0400, Kevin Dean kirjoitti: I have to say, I'm baffled by that sentiment. GTA02v5 is fully functional, the only problem is that it's not as efficient as it could be, just like every other product on the planet. Hear hear. For fuck's sake, people. Boohoo, there's gonna be a better version down the line. Where the hell have you lived your tech lives? This is how it _always_ is, and blowing any piece of admitted suboptimality so out of proportion Escher would be proud is _not_ the way to encourage an open development process. Don't like a couple of LEDs being slightly brighter than strictly necessary? Okay, there's the Perfect v6 coming up. Oh wait, it still doesn't have wake-on-bluetooth (I'm almost sorry for mentioning this bit of old news since it may stir up yet another storm in a teacup - again). And it won't, too much reworking would be involved. So you'd better just skip the FreeRunner altogether, you know, to get the perfect phone. Don't think that's comparable to the lack of a minor power saving hw feature? Well, there's this new Atheros AR6002 wifi chip that's more power efficient than Neo's AR6001, so clearly, since we _already know_, as many are stressing over the fucking LED thing, that the FreeRunner is using a suboptimal solution, they should just scrap that piece of shit and rebuild using this more power-efficient chip. Of course, this all will mean that they'll never get any actual products out, since there's always room for improvement especially in our fast-paced tech world, but hey, it's all to satisfy the people who want their phones Just Perfect. And the point was? Yeah, the point. There was one here somewhere, let me look for it. Oh yeah. Here it is: Nothing. Will. Ever. Be. Perfect. Get over it. Not to say you shouldn't wait for v6 if it would grind your soul inside every time to see the led blink on a v5. Please do. Just leave the rest of us in peace. Oh, and hope that the OM guys won't ever think of a cheap way to make FR again slightly better and start producing a v7. Why, that would mean that your phone would instantly become useless crap, wouldn't it. Wouldn't it? -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- I have always been a big fan of the maximum modularity and abstraction, and I totally agree on this part of your idea. I also agree that the telephone system is a dying system, but since all of your friends/family use it, and since we stil have no real mobile alternative, i think its a bit to early for throwing away the whole gsm parts. And that's why I like modularity: like you said, every one can choose wether to have gsm, wifi, wimax, umts, or a some sort of star trek transponder. But since this would be a complete redesign of the system, and a reinvention of the concept of mobile handheld. The idea is really innovative, but difficult. Sure nothing to produce after the gta3, but maybe to start developing.Ideally the modularity could be extendend to some sort of wireless, maybe bluetooth. btw, we already discussed a modular design some time ago... but I don't remember how we decided. -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
I disagree with that GSM phone is dying. In Europe almost everyone over 12 has a GSM phone and use it every day. How can you state it is dying? On the other hand noone knows what would happen to the Internet if all those people would choose to use VOIP instead of PSTN (Public switched telephone network). The two networks have completely different characteristics and PSTN is better for voice communication. Schmidt András ramsesoriginal wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- I have always been a big fan of the maximum modularity and abstraction, and I totally agree on this part of your idea. I also agree that the telephone system is a dying system, but since all of your friends/family use it, and since we stil have no real mobile alternative, i think its a bit to early for throwing away the whole gsm parts. And that's why I like modularity: like you said, every one can choose wether to have gsm, wifi, wimax, umts, or a some sort of star trek transponder. But since this would be a complete redesign of the system, and a reinvention of the concept of mobile handheld. The idea is really innovative, but difficult. Sure nothing to produce after the gta3, but maybe to start developing.Ideally the modularity could be extendend to some sort of wireless, maybe bluetooth. btw, we already discussed a modular design some time ago... but I don't remember how we decided. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sunday 20 April 2008 13:49:29 Schmidt AndrXs wrote: I disagree with that GSM phone is dying. In Europe almost everyone over 12 has a GSM phone and use it every day. How can you state it is dying? I said it is dying but few realizes it yet. Sooner or later people will want a internet connection with them. And the step from that and no longer needing a the full fledged phone network is quite small. On the other hand noone knows what would happen to the Internet if all those people would choose to use VOIP instead of PSTN (Public switched telephone network). You can potentially use less bandwidth if you choose more intelligent codecs. And yes I'm for paying actual bandwidth for mobile Internet. The Internet doesn't mean necessarily broadband and flat prices. And remember that IM is way more efficient (both from the human and the hw point of view) and cheap than VoIP, so many people would just switch to IM. It's because of absurd SMS costs and size limits that few uses them. The two networks have completely different characteristics and PSTN is better for voice communication. With GSM you are already using a digital protocol with a very lossy codec, and the latency is quite high (about 400 ms last time I checked). VoIP let's you choose the codec quality and associated costs. A better provider gives you lower latencies and jitter. People will just switch to the best one. So VoIP is potentially way better than PSTN :) ramsesoriginal wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- I have always been a big fan of the maximum modularity and abstraction, and I totally agree on this part of your idea. I also agree that the telephone system is a dying system, but since all of your friends/family use it, and since we stil have no real mobile alternative, i think its a bit to early for throwing away the whole gsm parts. And that's why I like modularity: like you said, every one can choose wether to have gsm, wifi, wimax, umts, or a some sort of star trek transponder. But since this would be a complete redesign of the system, and a reinvention of the concept of mobile handheld. The idea is really innovative, but difficult. Sure nothing to produce after the gta3, but maybe to start developing.Ideally the modularity could be extendend to some sort of wireless, maybe bluetooth. btw, we already discussed a modular design some time ago... but I don't remember how we decided. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
Well, no matter whether it's dying out or not; while I tend to agree that it actually is; I'm also sure it will still be ubiquitous for probably the better part of another decade. Plenty of time and market share available to manufacture and sell people the best open GSM phones :) :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sunday 20 April 2008 14:23:26 Stefano Cavallari wrote: You can potentially use less bandwidth if you choose more intelligent codecs. And yes I'm for paying actual bandwidth for mobile Internet. The Internet doesn't mean necessarily broadband and flat prices. And remember that IM is way more efficient (both from the human and the hw point of view) and cheap than VoIP, so many people would just switch to IM. It's because of absurd SMS costs and size limits that few uses them. my impression is that sms is used far more then phone calls here in norway for quick and simple communications. im systems have the problem that they are just that, systems. sure, one could use jabber as a glue, but most of my contacts are on msn, not jabber. and in other parts of the world its aol and yahoo messenger that counts. same deal with voip systems. the most popular is skype, but thats a closed system. as in, the only client that can access it is the official, closed source client. so when going from current systems to voip and im (and current voip clients can often double as voip clients, or the other way round) your just pushing the abstraction back a step. oh, and isnt the 4G LTE system thats supposed to take over for UMTS at some point in the future planned as a IP based system? as in, any voice calls performed will be done via voip anyways. its just that the handsets and the network operators have agreed on a common standard. question is, will said voip standard be implementable in open source ways. or are the controls required by the telcos so stringent (for fear of someone finding a way to shut the system down) that only big corps can do it in a black box fashion? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 20 April 2008 14:23:26 Stefano Cavallari wrote: You can potentially use less bandwidth if you choose more intelligent codecs. And yes I'm for paying actual bandwidth for mobile Internet. The Internet doesn't mean necessarily broadband and flat prices. And remember that IM is way more efficient (both from the human and the hw point of view) and cheap than VoIP, so many people would just switch to IM. It's because of absurd SMS costs and size limits that few uses them. my impression is that sms is used far more then phone calls here in norway for quick and simple communications. As far as I can see it, sms is way more used then calling in the private field, but calling is more used in the buisness field. im systems have the problem that they are just that, systems. sure, one could use jabber as a glue, but most of my contacts are on msn, not jabber. and in other parts of the world its aol and yahoo messenger that counts. XMPP (ex Jabber) [1] gives the possibity through so-called gateways to talk to other services. I for example talk through jabber to my friends in icq, in msn and in yahoo talk. But, like the article says, xmpp has even the possibility to combine im and sms. Having such a system on a phone shure makes sms obsolete. same deal with voip systems. the most popular is skype, but thats a closed system. as in, the only client that can access it is the official, closed source client. That's really true. And sad. But a system like the one used by XMPP, just in the voip field (I think even XMPP is going that way), would really make the pstn obsolete. And even more: voip has often the possibility to make calls to pstn and recive calls from it: so if a phone is equipped with a gien voip system fine, else you simply call the pstn network through the voip system. so when going from current systems to voip and im (and current voip clients can often double as voip clients, or the other way round) your just pushing the abstraction back a step. oh, and isnt the 4G LTE system thats supposed to take over for UMTS at some point in the future planned as a IP based system? as in, any voice calls performed will be done via voip anyways. its just that the handsets and the network operators have agreed on a common standard. I don't know about this, but it sounds intresting.. question is, will said voip standard be implementable in open source ways. or are the controls required by the telcos so stringent (for fear of someone finding a way to shut the system down) that only big corps can do it in a black box fashion? That's often the question, and if companies like OpenMoko become known, the possibility of having an Open Source implementation also grow. I also would say that I don't know about Stefano, but i thought of this as a modular system when I read this mail: If you feel the need for gsm you put in the gsm module, if you think oyu need 4g you put in that chip, and if you think you need something else, then simply use something else. Doing this way you, for know, you simply creatre the gsm module. Then you create some 4g module, and people can buy it, upgrade their phone, put it in a new barebone system, or whatever they want. Having a modular approach gives true freedome, in my opinion [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP -- My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework - reply
Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) ha scritto: This confusion comes from time latency of series of events, but no matter A5 or A6 should all apply the LED transistor change. I already update all the changes that shipping A5 will apply. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#GTA02_mass_roduction_version_change_list So, the only power-related issue fixed on A6 (and so not fixed on mass production version) is: * GSM_modem power source Reduce power's ripple when the phone is talking I guess this is a minor issue, isn't it? Could we have more informations? Thanks anyway for your news and to the all Openmoko guys for their efforts and for the comunication they keep with the community. This is the power of an open company!!! BTW, I'm happy to know that I'll be able to drain my GTA02v5 flashlighting my LEDs all the day :D -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sunday 20 April 2008 15:14:58 ramsesoriginal wrote: On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM, kenneth marken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 20 April 2008 14:23:26 Stefano Cavallari wrote: You can potentially use less bandwidth if you choose more intelligent codecs. And yes I'm for paying actual bandwidth for mobile Internet. The Internet doesn't mean necessarily broadband and flat prices. And remember that IM is way more efficient (both from the human and the hw point of view) and cheap than VoIP, so many people would just switch to IM. It's because of absurd SMS costs and size limits that few uses them. my impression is that sms is used far more then phone calls here in norway for quick and simple communications. As far as I can see it, sms is way more used then calling in the private field, but calling is more used in the buisness field. i guess it depends on how high priority the communication has in the senders mind. sms is very much a when you have time kind of system. im steps it up a notch via its presence system. and a phone call is very much a drop everything else, NOW! way of communicating. im systems have the problem that they are just that, systems. sure, one could use jabber as a glue, but most of my contacts are on msn, not jabber. and in other parts of the world its aol and yahoo messenger that counts. XMPP (ex Jabber) [1] gives the possibity through so-called gateways to talk to other services. I for example talk through jabber to my friends in icq, in msn and in yahoo talk. But, like the article says, xmpp has even the possibility to combine im and sms. Having such a system on a phone shure makes sms obsolete. same deal with voip systems. the most popular is skype, but thats a closed system. as in, the only client that can access it is the official, closed source client. That's really true. And sad. But a system like the one used by XMPP, just in the voip field (I think even XMPP is going that way), would really make the pstn obsolete. And even more: voip has often the possibility to make calls to pstn and recive calls from it: so if a phone is equipped with a gien voip system fine, else you simply call the pstn network through the voip system. ah yes. i forgot about all that. and yes, it would be quite the solution. now that i think about it i have been pondering converting email into xmpp, given the recent interest in push email and all that... as in, why use multiple protocols when one can use one? so when going from current systems to voip and im (and current voip clients can often double as voip clients, or the other way round) your just pushing the abstraction back a step. oh, and isnt the 4G LTE system thats supposed to take over for UMTS at some point in the future planned as a IP based system? as in, any voice calls performed will be done via voip anyways. its just that the handsets and the network operators have agreed on a common standard. I don't know about this, but it sounds intresting.. indeed. but i cant say i have kept up to speed on recent developments. this is only something i picked up from wikipedia and similar sources, so... question is, will said voip standard be implementable in open source ways. or are the controls required by the telcos so stringent (for fear of someone finding a way to shut the system down) that only big corps can do it in a black box fashion? That's often the question, and if companies like OpenMoko become known, the possibility of having an Open Source implementation also grow. I also would say that I don't know about Stefano, but i thought of this as a modular system when I read this mail: If you feel the need for gsm you put in the gsm module, if you think oyu need 4g you put in that chip, and if you think you need something else, then simply use something else. Doing this way you, for know, you simply creatre the gsm module. Then you create some 4g module, and people can buy it, upgrade their phone, put it in a new barebone system, or whatever they want. Having a modular approach gives true freedome, in my opinion hmm, pcmcia or expresscard? i recall early ipaq pdas had a sleeve for those kinds of addons that allowed the humble pda to access wifi and gsm networks. added quite a bit of bulk tho. and was not a similar sleeve system bounced around for the neo? primarily for use with wifi? [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sunday 20 April 2008 15:14:58 ramsesoriginal wrote: [...] I also would say that I don't know about Stefano, but i thought of this as a modular system when I read this mail: If you feel the need for gsm you put in the gsm module, if you think oyu need 4g you put in that chip, and if you think you need something else, then simply use something else. Doing this way you, for know, you simply creatre the gsm module. Then you create some 4g module, and people can buy it, upgrade their phone, put it in a new barebone system, or whatever they want. Having a modular approach gives true freedome, in my opinion Yes that's exactly what I was talking about. In fact it is independent of the phone system is dying argument as most advantages applies for legacy phone system use. It's just that I thought this because of the other reasoning :) -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
I want to comment on the modularity thing. PCMCIA is not even an option. If you look at the trend, you will notice that more and more comes in SoC (System on Chip). This is complete systems with internal bus, etc. This is micro system technology. I know that we will see more of those and they will be standard items you can buy. (SDIO cards has the normal SD-card size, mini SDIO has the same size as a mini SD card) I guess that in a few years you can buy all of these (some are already for sale): - WiFi mini SDIO module - Bluetooth mini SDIO module - GiFi mini SDIO module - UMTS SDIO module - GSM SDIO module - SDIO TV tuner - SDIO DAB receiver ... So a device with 4 SDIO slots could be the future. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework - reply
Thank you Tony for the update ! On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neng-Yu Tu (Tony Tu) ha scritto: This confusion comes from time latency of series of events, but no matter A5 or A6 should all apply the LED transistor change. I already update all the changes that shipping A5 will apply. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#GTA02_mass_roduction_version_change_list So, the only power-related issue fixed on A6 (and so not fixed on mass production version) is: * GSM_modem power source Reduce power's ripple when the phone is talking I guess this is a minor issue, isn't it? Could we have more informations? Thanks anyway for your news and to the all Openmoko guys for their efforts and for the comunication they keep with the community. This is the power of an open company!!! BTW, I'm happy to know that I'll be able to drain my GTA02v5 flashlighting my LEDs all the day :D -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:21 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Wait, no guitar pick? -- Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
We're all going to die!!! On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Dylan Semler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:21 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Wait, no guitar pick? -- Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
Exactly. Every cell phone I've ever had has contained obvious firmware bugs, firmware or otherwise. The difference is with openness you are far more likely to find and resolve the bugs. I hope it ships, it would be crazy to not ship with such a minor issue that can be soft fixed. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:35 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework Yup. And if we've all been patiently waiting for *quite* a while, it was to get out hands on *Stable Hardware(tm)* and handle half finished software ourselves. Heck, what happened to that requirement in the meantime ? Welcome to the real world. Do you really belive you get totally optimal hardware without known bugs with any vendor? I don't thing so. It's always a judgement call and you just don't see what is know suboptimal with other vendors. I think one small element that's off most of the time drawing a bit more energy than absolutly needed isn't the end of the world. There will always be better hardware on the horizont with computer devices... If you try to get perfect you will never be able to buy anything. With openmoko you just get a tiny bit more information showing so. Well, it's up to you to decide what to do. But honestly i think this is a bit out of proportion. Did anybody try to calculate how much this added draw will shorten the uptime of the phone? if not how can you claim it's a blocker problem? - Martin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Steve on V5 versus v6
The Guitar pick story is funny. remind me later and I will tell you _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 10:02 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Steve on V5 versus v6 We're all going to die!!! On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Dylan Semler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:21 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Wait, no guitar pick? -- Type faster. Use Dvorak: http://dvzine.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Target Market (was: Re: Charger?)
It needs lots of advertising, and i think for basic end-users the device should come with something in the settings like Turn on advanced mode to make the shell icon 'n all those techie things to turn on, or else the basic end-users will just see it too complicated 'n stuff 'n start complainin... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
turn GSM off?
Hello, With Freerunner, is it possible to turn the GSM off while keeping the rest of the unit on? I am interested in web browsing using WiFi or using the unit like a PDA or music device without the power consumption or radiation of the GSM. Thanks. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
99
The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
I see those 2€ as some kind of twisted way of openmoko giving me a free beer ;) Alexey Feldgendler pravi: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
Yeah, I think that would be an excellent idea! Stop with the -1 or -5 prices! Free your mind :) . And as an added bonus we pay you a little more. Ivo On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
So with every n Neos you get a free beer? A weird frequent buyer program? Peter Kraker wrote: I see those 2€ as some kind of twisted way of openmoko giving me a free beer ;) Alexey Feldgendler pravi: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
I agree, I'd like to pay for Freerunner 400$ in place of 399$ I alway liked 0 finishing number more than 9 finishing number. I vote for 400$! It is a very strange request, I admit :) Alexey Feldgendler wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
Am Montag, den 21.04.2008, 00:28 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Sometime down the road I will pull out the Sdcard and try to put in a branded Neo stylus. No promises. No pouch (better if openmoko brandized), btw? :( I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :( signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. nice thought /sign ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as long as Openmoko makes profit. :) If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer program... -Kevin On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do. nice thought /sign ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
It's not about paying more, it's about transparency and setting a standard for others to follow. I vote for 400$ also. On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as long as Openmoko makes profit. :) If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer program... -Kevin On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do. nice thought /sign ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: 99
no free hops, barley, and yeast. make your own beer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:02 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: 99 So with every n Neos you get a free beer? A weird frequent buyer program? Peter Kraker wrote: I see those 2€ as some kind of twisted way of openmoko giving me a free beer ;) Alexey Feldgendler pravi: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
On Sun April 20 2008 7:27:06 pm Kevin Dean wrote: I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as long as Openmoko makes profit. :) If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer program... -Kevin On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do. nice thought /sign ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community This tip a programmer idea is very interesting. What does the community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort. This way, Openmoko can see what features are most important to the community and the community would be able to donate to OM to help develop and research future products. -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun April 20 2008 7:27:06 pm Kevin Dean wrote: I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as long as Openmoko makes profit. :) If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer program... -Kevin On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do. nice thought /sign ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community This tip a programmer idea is very interesting. What does the community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort. This way, Openmoko can see what features are most important to the community and the community would be able to donate to OM to help develop and research future products. No, don't do this! For one, the overhead of managing that is and making sure all the details are fair to everyone is too much for what it'll pull in. For two, it'll mean that features get implemented, but not implemented well, and the coverage of features will be to the preferences of whoever (linux-land hacker, remember) pays the most, instead of what this phone needs to succeed commercially. Seriously, stay on track guys. -nick ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Steve on V5 versus v6
The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things. Now, I realize that people want accessories. So As this launch gets going I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:29 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Steve on V5 versus v6 steve wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Sometime down the road I will pull out the Sdcard and try to put in a branded Neo stylus. No promises. No pouch (better if openmoko brandized), btw? :( -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
steve ha scritto: I'll gladly put the price back to $650 which was the first price we released. LOL... BTW for me you can also put the price at 398 for staying a little more far from 399... :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
On Sun April 20 2008 11:09:07 am Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: I want to comment on the modularity thing. PCMCIA is not even an option. If you look at the trend, you will notice that more and more comes in SoC (System on Chip). This is complete systems with internal bus, etc. This is micro system technology. I know that we will see more of those and they will be standard items you can buy. (SDIO cards has the normal SD-card size, mini SDIO has the same size as a mini SD card) I guess that in a few years you can buy all of these (some are already for sale): - WiFi mini SDIO module - Bluetooth mini SDIO module - GiFi mini SDIO module - UMTS SDIO module - GSM SDIO module - SDIO TV tuner - SDIO DAB receiver ... So a device with 4 SDIO slots could be the future. What I think would be a great scenario is the ability to go the Openmoko website and customize a GTA0x like you would customize a PC. Add GSM, GPS, Wifi, BT, Accelerometers, SSD, or anything and price would vary based on hardware built in. This may be impossible today, but it could open plenty of doors in the future. Ideally, we could let the consumer decide what radios/memory/case they need and cost would adjust based on features. -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Steve on V5 versus v6
Michael and I are talking about using the pouch as a give away in certain venues. But I had to optimize to get the price down to the level I thought people deserved. I'll look into it, The lanyard is also out and I know that maddog will chew my butt because he loves it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Reichel Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:00 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Steve on V5 versus v6 Am Montag, den 21.04.2008, 00:28 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño): steve wrote: As far as the goodies in the box go. Whether it's an A5 or a A6, the box will the following at least. I'm still sorting through some issues. 1. phone. 2. Battery 3. Custom Charger 4. Sdcard. 5. Stylus. 6. USB cable. Sometime down the road I will pull out the Sdcard and try to put in a branded Neo stylus. No promises. No pouch (better if openmoko brandized), btw? :( I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :( ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases
It's wonderful the focus of the community is now all about $399 vs $400 rather than availability of Freerunner in certain colors. who says the community-based process with complete open-ness doesn't have an impact. and YES I agree, the remaining V5 vs V6 issues seem small (but we did get extra info and clarification, thanks Tony). May 1,000 (x100,000) Freerunners bloom. Soon. -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com http://twitter.com/RonKJeffries ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
Hmm, isn't the dollar price just an estimation? Cheers, Federico On 4/21/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: steve ha scritto: I'll gladly put the price back to $650 which was the first price we released. LOL... BTW for me you can also put the price at 398 for staying a little more far from 399... :P -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
