Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
[cut] Here, I want to add that a friendly enthusiast (who wants to stay anonymous) has spent close to 1 EUR to support the project. He just believes in the idea of an open moko. Thank you anonymous enthusiast, your are spending your money wisely :) -- Patryk LeadMan Benderz Linux Registered User #377521 () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 openness/freedom (was GTA04 Group Buy - Status)
On Friday 02 December 2011 05:26:16 msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote:
But seriously, swapping PCBAs between GTA02 and GTA04 is a zero-sum
game. The number of existing {case + LCM + GSM antenna + other bits}
sets is finite, and it stays the same whether you leave the original
GTA02 PCBAs in those cases or replace them with GTA04s.
With my wooden case i had fully working phone - only single part that was from
GTA02 was the speaker + microphone. I really dont think this is big problem.
Regards
Radek
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Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
Le 01/12/2011 19:10, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller a écrit : While I was formulating another mail, there were two more subscription! Thank you very much! Yes, everyone has his/her own decisions to take. And I know that it is a quite huge amount of money for our passion (having myself spent a lot of money and time for the GTA04 to happen). Here, I want to add that a friendly enthusiast (who wants to stay anonymous) has spent close to 1 EUR to support the project. He just believes in the idea of an open moko. The money had been used to replace the unuseable GTA04A2 boards with GTA04A3 - and to distribute 4 of the EA boards to important developers in the community. The remaining money will be used for providing 4 additional developers with GTA04A4 boards as soon as the boards are produced. So let me say: thank you! Nikolaus PS: he is reading the lists :) Wow! Thanks you sir... uhhh, Anonymous Mc Awesome ? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
[cut] Here, I want to add that a friendly enthusiast (who wants to stay anonymous) has spent close to 1 EUR to support the project. He just believes in the idea of an open moko. Thank you anonymous enthusiast, your are spending your money wisely:) +1 -- ## giacomo 'giotti' mariani gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-key 0x99bfa859 O ASCII ribbon campaign: stop HTML mail www.asciiribbon.org ## ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 03:18, Dave dave...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The article on /. won't hurt :) http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes Article? _Article_? Just 2 lines! Pathetic! Oh, it's my own ;-) I never thought it would hit the main page, though! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com writes: Dear all, now, several days after the announcement of the GTA04 group tour, the first subscriptions have arrived (thanks you to all who have already subscribed!). And we have already seen many improvements by the kernel and distro developers that show how much superior the GTA04 hardware has become compared to the GTA02. Hello, The most important question is whether it can work as a daily phone, which means for me a solid hardware: no buzz and good quality sound during the call. On gta02 people where complaining on the sound from my gta02 even after buzfix applied. I hope gta04 is an improvement also in this respect. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
Nice to hit main page. Although it's always depressing to read the comments on /. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04 Group Buy - Status
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 13:22, ri...@happyleptic.org wrote: Nice to hit main page. Thanks! Although it's always depressing to read the comments on /. Yes, it is :-( Ah well, this may tickle a few more people to buy a new main board for their GTA02 cases... Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SHR future and way for better stability
Hi, in last few days we were talking a lot about state of shr-testing, shr-unstable, shr-core and how to improve stability and usability for our users while not slowing down development in our latest version which is shr-core. For details and reasons you can read log from #openmoko-cdevel (13:30) http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/openmoko-cdevel.20111201.txt In the end everybody agreed that we don't have manpower to maintain 3 flavors of SHR which are: shr-testing: There were only 2 maintainers of shr-testing. Sebastian Spaeth for shr-testing2009 and Thomas Zimmermann for shr-testing2010 and 2011.1. There was discussion about more fixes for shr-testing, but nobody sent patches for http://git.openembedded.org/openembedded/log/?h=shr/testing2011.1 so that they could be applied in standard shr-testing feeds. From my perspective shr-testing lacking so far behind shr-unstable and with known issues is not better then tested images and feeds from shr-unstable. shr-unstable: This was based on master branch of openembedded (today called OE-classic) so there was a lot of changes every day which sometimes caused unstable telephony or unusable UI. It was caused mostly because of very limited testing between building it on SHR buildhost and users getting it from shr-unstable feeds by opkg upgrade. But since July 2011 the development in OE-classic was slowing down becase everybody was moving to new layered structure of oe-core/meta-* (google yocto project for more info and fancy video). shr-core: Originaly started in March 2011 as my experimental pet project to evaluate new layers like oe-core/meta-oe, but later all remaining SHR and FSO developers switched from shr-unstable to shr-core too and now we have very lively meta-smartphone repository with BSP layers for our beloved phones and layers for FSO, Aurora and for SHR as distribution. Some stuff from old shr-unstable is still missing and sometimes it's changing too fast for average end user who depends on working telephony. So today we've decided to try something else. Instead of trying to maintain 3 different flavors of shr, we will try harder to provide best experience with shr-core and hopefully migrate all remaining users of shr-testing or shr-unstable to it soon (and then we can rename it to shr-stable :)). Starting with next build we won't push the build output directly to normal feeds, but only to staging feeds for testers which decide to try newer versions. It works like this: 1) http://build.shr-project.org/shr-core nothing will be changed in this feed before it's tested by multiple users from staging feed. 2) http://build.shr-project.org/shr-core-staging/ will contain one directory for each major feature we want to test (like EFL or FSO upgrades) or sometimes just rotated weekly when there isn't something major or dangerous. Each directory has by 3 digit name which identifies the feed (lets call it NNN). Each NNN directory has info.NNN file (and info - info.NNN symlink) where you can read on which revisions was this feed started, which commits were used during populating this feed and when this feed gets closed (or lets say marked as ready for testers). You can also read how all our branches looked when it was closed. Currently there is 001, 002 and latest. 002 is still getting more stuff from live build, so it wasn't closed yet. When we decide that there is enough stuff for testing and the feature is complete, we'll close 002 and redirect build output to new 003. Latest link points to latest but _closed_ feed (so usually highest -1) which is currently 001. If you want to help testing, then best way is to prepare 2nd partition (not the one you're using for daily phone you depend on) and redirect default shr-core feeds to latest closed: sed -i 's#shr-core#shr-core-staging/latest#g' /etc/opkg/*-feed.conf or of course you can lock it to whatever number you want to test later ie: sed -i 's#shr-core#shr-core-staging/007#g' /etc/opkg/*-feed.conf Also you should also download info file from selected directory so you'll know what you are testing after latest link is moved to newer feed. wget http://build.shr-project.org/shr-core-staging/latest/info Then you can upgrade with opkg or reflash to newer image (if images are available in staging area too). opkg update opkg upgrade Now you can test whatever is important for you (telephony, music, video, ...) and if you're happy with new testing feed you should report it on our wiki http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Stabilizing there will be table for each NNN feed and you should say there if you're fine with it moving to default public feed or if you have found some issues with it, bug number from http://www.shr-project.org/trac/report where you've reported those issues would be great and it would be fantastic if you also include in that report which NNN feed was last known to work for you and first one where it was broken. That's where those info files you've
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
On Friday 02 December 2011 13:21:34 lukp...@o2.pl wrote: The most important question is whether it can work as a daily phone, which means for me a solid hardware: no buzz and good quality sound during the call. On gta02 people where complaining on the sound from my gta02 even after buzfix applied. I hope gta04 is an improvement also in this respect. As far as i can say from early testing, the sound quality is good. I still need low latency software for routing the sound between UMTS and speakers, but otherwise the modem seems to work reliably - i have been receiving SMS and calls without any issues. So with good power management this has potential to be usable phone. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:45:16 +0100, Radek Polak wrote: On Friday 02 December 2011 13:21:34 lukp...@o2.pl wrote: The most important question is whether it can work as a daily phone, which means for me a solid hardware: no buzz and good quality sound during the call. On gta02 people where complaining on the sound from my gta02 even after buzfix applied. I hope gta04 is an improvement also in this respect. As far as i can say from early testing, the sound quality is good. I still need low latency software for routing the sound between UMTS and speakers, but otherwise the modem seems to work reliably - i have been receiving SMS and calls without any issues. This issue should be solved with the next board version GTA04A4 which is produced right now. This board version connects the modem directly to the TPS chip which contains all the sound related stuff. Therefore it should work without additional software if you adjust the right alsa switches to route the audio between modem and mic/speakers. So with good power management this has potential to be usable phone. This is still to do. The OMAP platform is very capable of saving power but everything must be set up within the linux kernel. This is a challenging task if you didn't do this before. I'm still trying to understand all necessary bits to help out here. Regards, Christoph ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
Please everyone be prudent before claiming that this could be ready for general users as a conventional phone. Last time we pretended the openmoko was acceptable as a end-user product some non technical people bought it, then had tons of troubles (buzz, bad sound quality), then were responded that this is only a hacker friendly prototype and so on, and as a result many people end up upset against the phone (that may be why the conversion rate gta02-gta04 is so unexpectably low). This is very unlikely one will experiment the same end-user experience with a gta04 than, say, with any nokia device. We can't put the same testing effort in the device. There will be buzz, there will be interferences, there will be heating chipsets :), etc. Please end user don't forget we are nothing but a bunch of optimistic enthousiasts. :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
What is the status of the GTA04 graphics chip implementation. I have done a lot of work on the GTA02 with my graphics based apps, and the main issue for me is the very poor graphics performance with the chip in use on that platform. I run the apps over the USB link to any PC using X, and the performance of the app is quite satisfactory. On the GTA02 screen itself, its very poor to the extent that its not useful. Is the new board using the same graphics interface, or can the new board do some reasonable level of smooth display and animation? ri...@happyleptic.org wrote: Please everyone be prudent before claiming that this could be ready for general users as a conventional phone. Last time we pretended the openmoko was acceptable as a end-user product some non technical people bought it, then had tons of troubles (buzz, bad sound quality), then were responded that this is only a hacker friendly prototype and so on, and as a result many people end up upset against the phone (that may be why the conversion rate gta02-gta04 is so unexpectably low). This is very unlikely one will experiment the same end-user experience with a gta04 than, say, with any nokia device. We can't put the same testing effort in the device. There will be buzz, there will be interferences, there will be heating chipsets :), etc. Please end user don't forget we are nothing but a bunch of optimistic enthousiasts. :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Iain B. Findleton 514-457-0744 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 Group Buy - Status
What is the status of the GTA04 graphics chip implementation. I have done a lot of work on the GTA02 with my graphics based apps, and the main issue for me is the very poor graphics performance with the chip in use on that platform. I run the apps over the USB link to any PC using X, and the performance of the app is quite satisfactory. On the GTA02 screen itself, its very poor to the extent that its not useful. Is the new board using the same graphics interface, or can the new board do some reasonable level of smooth display and animation? First xf86-video-omapfb has XV acceleration, Then it seem that the display depth is 32bit, which permits software compositing in enlightenment. Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 openness/freedom (was GTA04 Group Buy - Status)
Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: With my wooden case i had fully working phone - only single part that was from GTA02 was the speaker + microphone. I really dont think this is big problem. Yes, and if I wanted to do the same thing (use a self-made wooden case), I could have done it just as well with my own APH01 PCBA (quad-band Calypso based on the liberated Leonardo+ schematics) rather than GTA04. So I still disagree with your reasoning chain of (shortage of existing GTA02 units) - (GTA04 is the only solution) MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 openness/freedom (was GTA04 Group Buy - Status)
On Friday 02 of December 2011 17:53:15 msoko...@ivan.harhan.org wrote: So I still disagree with your reasoning chain of (shortage of existing GTA02 units) - (GTA04 is the only solution) i am rather saying: (shortage of existing GTA02 units) - (GTA04 is the solution) Also pool graphics performace of GTA02 make the user experience very bad - hardly acceptable for normal users and this is fixed in GTA04 and that's one more reason to upgrade. I am not saying that everyone should upgrade. I would personally wait a bit until i knew that the power management in GTA04 will be working - without that the it's not much usable as phone (i.e. charging twice a day is not comfortabe and will kill your battery soon). But it's up to anyone to collect objective information and decide. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QtMoko v37 for GTA04
Hi, qtmoko for Goldelico's GTA04 has just been released. You can download it from sourceforge [1]. Sources are on github in master_gta04 branch [2] and instructions how to make rootfs are here [3]. Kernel is based on hw_validation [4]. For installing you need standard bootloader on SD card. Then just upack the tarbal on ext filesystem and copy uImage from /boot to FAT. Here is list of changes since v36: * doc - fixed toolchain instructions (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) * finger friendly patches for contacts, shutdown, call history, qtmail (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) * added security.debian.org to sources.list (pabs3) * using geomirros for in sources.list (pabs3) * new input biglangscape input method (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) * autorotation script (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) * qx can now launch Qt-X11 apps like fbreader (LD_LIBRARY_PATH problem) * qx can delete X11 lock files (useful if X crashed) * delete qtopia temp dir on start (local sockets work after unclean restart) * fixed singal status polling for AT modems * option to disable signal polling for AT modems * dont poll battery immediately on AT modems * option to disable AT+CCED on AT modem * option to decode operator name for AT modem plugins * support for Exec argument .desktop files * gta04 support for keys, battery, backlight, modem On GTA04 you can expect: 1/ it can boot 2/ fast GUI 3/ quite working modem - signal, operator name, sim contacts, SMS, voice calls but sounds routing is done just with umts-sound-route-start.sh script in /opt/qtmoko/bin. You can configure GPRS, dialing will start but then something goes wrong. 4/ working touchscreen and GTA04 keys 5/ charging indicators work 6/ battery driver is missing - newer kernel and adaptation is needed for this 7/ working sound 8/ working apps, qmplayer works nicely, qx should work nicely, the apps in qtmoko app repository should be ok too. NeronGPS does not work because GPS is not done yet. Media player after installing codecs plays without any problems (unlike on GTA02). 9/ in power management setting works only display off. Brightness will need newer kernel. 10/ for bluetooth you will need go to devtool (gear icon), select Power on bluetooth and Restart QtExtended with POWER button. I could pair and connect A2DP on my bt headset and play lower quality sounds. Hq sounds need probably faster bt (and newer kernel). 11/ you can turn on wifi with wifi power on in devtools (wifi-poweron.sh script). For me it has bad sensitivity and connecting to ap works only from command line (iwconfig). GUI does not work yet. My plans for new GTA04 release is to upgrade to 3.2 kernel if possible, better sound routing between umts and soundcard (jack, pulseaudio, some custom piece of code?). QMplayer GUI could be improved too. Btw if you want to try videos, you can encode them for GTA04 in qmplayer right on the device. Are any of GTA02 owners interested in changes since v35, so that i should do this release also for GTA02? Regards Radek [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/GTA04/ [2] https://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/tree/master_gta04 [3] https://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/blob/master/doc/txt/debian_rootfs_howto_gta04.txt [4] https://github.com/radekp/linux-2.6/tree/v2.6.32-gta04-qtmoko-v37 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA04 openness/freedom (was GTA04 Group Buy - Status)
Radek Polak pson...@seznam.cz wrote: i am rather saying: (shortage of existing GTA02 units) - (GTA04 is the solution) It is *a* solution for some classes of users. It is not *the* solution for all use cases. Also pool graphics performace of GTA02 make the user experience very bad - hardly acceptable for normal users and this is fixed in GTA04 and that's one more reason to upgrade. Fancy graphics is something I couldn't care less about. I would be quite happy with the most bare-bones UI which should be implementable just fine on the GTA02, producing responsiveness no worse than my ancient Mot V66. Instead what I want is an everyday cellphone that does voice calls, SMS and CSD, and does so using software and firmware for which I have access to inspectable and recompilable source, be it legal or illegal. I'm currently in the process of trying to acquire a TSM30: that may be the right phone for me, given that my GTA02 is currently a paperweight due to the lack of an army capable of invading Germany and prying the Closedmoko fw semi-src from its hoarders. I should be able to acquire at least one TSM30, but I'm hoping to be able to find at least two: since no TSM30 schematics are available (I don't know whether it's because they've never been released in the first place, or if they are available in some obscure location and those who know that location are selfishly refusing to point me to it), I will probably have to reconstruct them by taking an actual TSM30 PCBA and sending it to a professional PCB/PCBA reverse engineering lab where they would remove all components, separate and image the layers of the PCB or whatever they do to reconstruct the netlist and the layout of inner layers. Unfortunately that process requires destroying at least one PCBA. :-( Of course hiring a professional PCB/PCBA reverse eng lab is devilishly expensive, but it should still be less expensive than hiring the kind of people who could help me recover the semi-src I'm looking for by some brute-force means... Not to mention the cost of restructuring my life to avoid ever visiting any country that does extradition... What would I do if someone was willing to release an anonymous copy of the GTA0x (or Leonardo baseline) Calypso fw semi-src, so that instead of expending 100% of my life-force to recover that jewel I could actually do something productive? Well, in that case I would start by taking my GTA02 out of the box in which it came, and putting my own very simple distro on the Samsung application processor. I would then bring up the Calypso, using the knowledge of its code to understand the process better. Maybe even find and fix a bug or two in that Calypso fw in the process. After bringing up my own distro on the GTA02 that uses built-from-src code for both the AP and the BP, I would quite seriously consider building my own replacement PCBA just like Dr. HNS did. If he and his team could do it, why can't I? Expect that my hw design goals and target audience would be quite different. I would keep the Calypso, no UMTS, but possibly make it quad-band, copying the quad-band GSM RF front-end from the Leonardo+ schematics - if I can find a place to get that little passive component. While I have no problem with the Samsung AP on the GTA02, I realize that the component is most likely unobtainable. But since I would be targeting a user base for which the part that really matters is the BP rather than the AP, I don't really care which AP to use. Perhaps I would borrow the OMAP AP from the GTA04, or maybe find some significantly cheaper really basic AP that can do the absolutely minimal functions I expect from it. And I would most certainly omit the features/components/complexity that is of no interest to me: WiFi, BT and the accelerometer/etc sensors. The result would be a device meant to be a *phone*, not something else. But I'm not going to put any more serious thought into that project until and unless I can obtain the source or semi-src for the Calypso fw, i.e., either a GTA0x/Leonardo/other non-TSM30 version or some docs for the TSM30 which would make that already-available source version a more viable starting point. I am not saying that everyone should upgrade. I would personally wait a bit until i knew that the power management in GTA04 will be working - without that the it's not much usable as phone (i.e. charging twice a day is not comfortabe and will kill your battery soon). But it's up to anyone to collect objective information and decide. PM issues are one of the major reasons why the absence of src/semi-src for the Calypso fw is making my GTA02 serve as a paperweight. From what I understand, the engineers at Openmoko-Inc took the Leonardo baseline code and made their own adaptations to it. One of the latter was the addition of the GPIO signal by way of which the BP wakes up the AP on certain conditions - an incoming call being the prime example, one would hope. I've heard that they
Re: QtMoko v37 for GTA04
Dear Radek, thanks (as ususal) for your great work. Yes, please do a GTA02 release if possible. Especially the keyboard was one reason why Qtmoko may have not been as popular as it deserves to be. With the big landscape keyboard this will all change! BR Robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko v37 for GTA04
Are any of GTA02 owners interested in changes since v35, so that i should do this release also for GTA02? Hello Radek, I am most certainly going to be using my GTA02 as long as I can for various purposes. I am very much aware of the progress made in the QtMoko arena and can build my own images for the GTA02 - Vx, thanks for the elaborate build instruction. I think most owners of the device by now would have build their own images :)(well I am doing it). Keep up the good work. Rgds Rp On 12/3/11, robin spielr...@web.de wrote: Dear Radek, thanks (as ususal) for your great work. Yes, please do a GTA02 release if possible. Especially the keyboard was one reason why Qtmoko may have not been as popular as it deserves to be. With the big landscape keyboard this will all change! BR Robin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Ranjit Pillai gnumen.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
