Openmoko for blind users?
Seems to me OM would be a good platform to quickly implement something like this on a working phone. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127015.700-vibrating-touch-scree n-puts-braille-at-the-fingertips.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Rockbox on gta02?
Anybody given this some thought? Obviously it would make it just a mp3 player, but a polished and feature rich one at least. You'd think you could boot a simple image off the sd card with u-boot or qi, porting it to gta02 would be no where near as difficult as something like an ipod. http://www.rockbox.org/ Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Rockbox on gta02?
Yea, it would be nice to run as an app with a usable phone distro, but I doubt there's anywhere near the hw resources to do that nicely. Responsivness is a big limitation of gta02 most of the time just as a phone. The delay from action to sound must be on the order of 500-1000ms, and that's affected by other apps already running. Matt -Original Message- From: community-boun...@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-boun...@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Vincent MEURISSE Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:26 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Rockbox on gta02? Some time ago, I saw a project to build Rockbox as an application. Any news about that ? I think it's far better as it allow you to use other functionalities while playing music. For both case, I think touchscreen can be a problem. I've never seen a touchscreen interface to Rockbox. (But maybe there is a hidden one) Anyway, porting can be a goo programming challenge and a way to tell to the world : look how open hardware and software are good. There is tons of OS which can run on my phone -- Vincent MEURISSE ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Don't like unsolicited calls?
The auto-detect routines that make a human or answering machine determination before switching to an operator seem to fail consistently when answering with my openmoko phone. I'd rather they didn't call at all, but at least when they do you don't have to listen to a sales pitch. A very good thing for sure. Has anyone else noticed this? Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Back to the basics: improving user experience
I think the phone is getting quite usable, and well there is a long road ahead I don't think anybody should feel bad about how far it has come. Recent post on engadget re: RIM's Bold. ptrcd003 @ Oct 17th 2008 1:08AM tell me about it. Crappy GPS that rarely, if ever, works (triangulation never works unless you download google maps) . Constant spinning clock, sometimes preventing me from answering calls for up to 5 minutes. Totally unstable OS (have missed class due to alarm clock app crashing during the night). The browser is also relatively slow, and the build quality should be much higher for a phone of this price (sides creak, back cover moves around.) This isn't a single occurence, my friend has the same phone with the same problems. So be glad it isn't out in the States yet, maybe they're actually planning to fix these things. If it wasn't for the amazing email capabilities, i'd go back to the iPhone 3G in a heartbeat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vasco Névoa Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience I can see there are at least 2 distinct types of user of OM: A - I need a working phone now, the uber-cool PDA stuff can wait; B - OM is a groundbreaking project, I don't care about telephony, let's press the revolution! As much as I am divided among the two views, I think OM must oblige to its responsibility towards the users who have paid for their hardware, and keep its promise of a working phone. I don't think that making the core system work (including a little hacking of the Qtopia stuff) is a waste of time; any insight that is gained here can immediately be applied to FSO. OM2008.x will simply serve as a real-world testbed (one that is everyday usable!). When FSO comes along, it will already have the necessary corrections... Citando Didier Raboud [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Vasco Névoa wrote: I agree with you partly; the main efforts should go into getting the new framework out - *as long as it runs on a rock-solid core system*. So I support the idea of accelerating the FSO integration... but in the meantime people have to use the sucking Qtopia ware in their everyday life, because there is no realistic alternative. FSO is still very incomplete at the user level. Today, the complete system is not reliable and the reliable system is not complete at all. If you fix the core and qtopia now, everybody gets a working phone, and FSO gets a more reliable development core. You favor the users, which are the noisier people. ;) If you jump start FSO into main distro, there will still not exist a complete system that can be used everyday. You favor the developers, who could wait a little more (but not long!) and ARE ALSO USERS. So please just make it work solidly, and then integrate FSO. :) Well... I would rather let a bit more freedom to the team : if you (as in the team which will make the iFoan obsolete) think that breaking useability or functionality or anything else could serve the cause : do it ! Please decide your roadmap and make it public ! I (personnally) don't care if I am not able to use my Neo as a phone (and anything else possible) for 2-3-4-5 months : I have a working phone. BUT, what I would like to know is _when_ I will get _what_ functionality. I you think that breaking the whole stuff for a moment will serve a precise goal, please do it ! Regards, OdyX -- Swisslinux.org - Le carrefour GNU/Linux en Suisse - http://www.swisslinux.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Back to the basics: improving user experience
Have you thought about applying any of the fast-boot mods that were slashdotted recently? One thing that killed the boot time of desktop linux was the usb subsystem. OM is probally doing the similar things. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/02/1933206from=rss -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Minh Ha Duong Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:36 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Back to the basics: improving user experience To Rui and all others interested in bootime improvement: A bootchart is available at: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Alessandro -- Minh HA DUONG, Chargé de Recherche, CNRS CIRED, Centre International de Recherches sur l'Environnement et le Développement http://minh.haduong.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Regarding Xtst error
Hey, yea.. I figured it out. It's not a target error, it's a host lib error. Install the packages libxtst-dev and libxtst6. It's a dependency of some qt host tool I think. Maybe you were running a kubuntu iso? That's what I was using. It did not have this lib by default. After it got past that point (this past weekend) it stopped while building ruby later on. There was an unterminated escaped string in a fake.rb. If you terminate the escaped string it will continue. It may be some kind of test case that's supposed to be unterminated, but I didn't look at that because I just wanted the build to continue. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:40 PM To: Crane, Matthew Subject: Regarding Xtst error Hi, I am building Openmoko using mokomakefile and having the same problem that you have posted on Xtst library. Could you tell me how you fix the problem ? Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
qvfb build fails missing Xtst
The last few times I've tried to do a compeltly clean build it fails to link qvfb complaining about a missing -lXtst. Anybody know what am I missing? Is this a test library that is not really needed and I can remove it from the configure script? Thanks, Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Idea for Openmoko application: Tide updates
I'm from the coast, into surf/sailing. Ideas: - openmoko attached to bouys, phones home with bouy angle, wave forces - openmoko race application, allow other boats to watch speed, position, and accel forces on race participants (would be cool to see graphic of boat hitting waves and the angle while close hauled, other boats could view visualization when a gust hits a competitor) - openmoko in moored yacht, alert/webserve info on forces on boat, similar detect if boat is drifting away from mooring -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:32 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Idea for Openmoko application: Tide updates Surfers, fisherpeople, and I'm sure others care about the tides. Turns out there are websites and applications that provide this data. For a nice review: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/003037.php Something like this would seem to be ideal for Openmoko, especially with GPS. Anyone interested? Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Time and Timezone issues...
Yea, I think there's more then one timezone file that needs to be updated. The file is not mentioned in the wiki. I had the same problem, but don't have my phone with me right now so I'm not sure which file it is the wiki doesn't mention. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:09 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Time and Timezone issues... On Wednesday 03 September 2008, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Setting the right time in my device is the only problem I wasn't able to solve yet since the very first time... :o. What I've done following the Date [1] and Timezone [2] wikis: - installed ntpclient - installed tzdata-europe - set the time using ntpclient -s -h pool.ntp.org - synced with the hardware clock - exported TZ=:/usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Rome in ~/.profile Now, if I re-set the time using ntp I get the right time (in my timezone), but if restart the device (without network connectivity, as generally happens when you boot a phone!) I get back the UTC time ([mytime] - [2hours])! This is too bad! To make my TZ to be considered I must run again the ntpclient, but this need a network connectivity :|. Any suggestion? If I syn-link /etc/timezone to my timezone file the same happens (and on reboot the link is removed). Then, in my phone I've two OS: qtopia (on SD) and 2008.8. I'd like to keep both the clocks synced (not to change the time on each startup). Ah... Time! :| [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Date [2] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Timezone Could be related to bug 1851 - not sure if this has made it into the updates yet. http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1851 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Flashing Om2008.8 rootfs under Windows is *LONG*
It takes me about 20min with a recent quad core system, sp2. It takes slightly longer on a linux box with a lighter cpu. Maybe is mostly dependent on underlying usb. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Chu Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:53 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Flashing Om2008.8 rootfs under Windows is *LONG* Hi Abdel, Actually, the patch is what is compiled into the 0.1+svn beta version of dfu-util for Win32 on projects.openmoko.org. I'm assuming that that is the version that everyone here is using? I also am using WinXP SP2 as Benedikt Schindler on these replies is using as well. For the others who experience long flash times on Windows XP, are you also using SP2? I am using Intel Core2 6420 @ 2.13GHz with 3GB of RAM, and USB 2.0 controller. I guess the other question is, who else can flash rootfs in under 20 minutes using dfu-util for Win32? What are your configurations (version of Windows (including Service Pack), type of processor, amount of RAM, USB controller version)? Hopefully we can find a commonality among those that experience the long flash times and among those that do not. Cheers, Andrew Abdelrazak Younes wrote: Nishit Dave wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Andrew Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the feedback that the dfu-util for Win32 is that much slower on Vista. I wasn't aware of that. The changes I made to the dfu-util source code were minimal but they could use a code review (I've posted the diff below). On Windows XP, I've never had to wait more than 20 minutes to flash the rootfs so the issue might be related to Windows Vista, or LibUSB-Win32 on Vista, but unfortunately, I do not have Windows Vista so I cannot debug. If anyone has the same issue on Windows XP, I would like to hear about it. I'm using Windows XP with 512 MB RAM on my laptop. rootfs flashing takes between 1-2 hours IIRC. Hello Andrew, Just for completeness, my system is an Intel double core with 2GB RAM and Vista. Flashing takes also between 1 and 2 hours. I'll try your patch if I manage to install a mingw environment. Or, if you have it compiled, I'd gladly avoid this installation :-) Abdel. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: TangoGPS and Locations maps
Png's have metadata, but not sure if it's used by the apps. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jelle De Loecker Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:44 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: TangoGPS and Locations maps Sorry for crashing this discussion, but could you clarify why there would be a difference between a png saved by tangogps and locations? If they both use the exact same areas, the exact same name, and they both save it as a png then it *should* be compatible. Anything else seems way too crazy, no? arne anka schreef: I don't think so : did you compare the files? i gather the naming derives from the gps location data, thus the file names for the same areas should be the same regardless of the format being different. similar names are not sufficient, as said above -- compare the files (identify -verbose 5638.png) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: 850 sold out, 900 delayed, connection?
Were any 850s available on the 25th? Or did it just remain sold out from previously. Maybe there will be some delay due to rework and testing changes for the gps + sd fix. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MKL23 Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:29 AM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: 850 sold out, 900 delayed, connection? Hi, It's 25th, and the 850 is sold out, again. Is there any information or schedule of 900 ?? Best Regards, Mac Lin From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:20 AM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: 850 sold out, 900 delayed, connection? No, the guy who put up the 15th just made a mistake. I told him the 25th ( best case) and he put up 15.th. , when we hit an inventory status of 36 units of 850, I checked the website, found the mistake and said. While you are fixing this date, get ready for the next shocker, we sold out the 850. Another build is coming so hang in there. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:53 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: 850 sold out, 900 delayed, connection? Hey I just wonder why the 900 was delayed with ten days when the 850 ten pack was sold out? I was so happy to see that I was going to order my 10 pack of 900 on Monday, but suddenly the date was 25th instead 15th. When I saw that the 850 ten packs was sold out, I also saw that the 900 was delayed. Is the a connection here? And why are the 900 delayed? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Reason for GPS problems found! And fixed.
I think the commitment comes from the connection to the customers/community. I think typically product developers are well removed from the headaches of users. Which is generally a good thing - if you're a developer. Matt On Wednesday 16 July 2008 15:11, nick loeve wrote: Hi FWIW i just flashed http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/uImage-om -gt a02-latest.bin today and i got a fix outside with my sd card inserted. Previously i never saw a satellite unless i took it out. Did that build have the patches i see at http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=andy ? Yay! Good news! If that is the case, then it's an amazing turnaround time. The OM guys really do know what commitment to the job is :-D Cheers Kyle ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: In the press
I think it's fair to say most open source projects evolve this way. The wiki isn't that bad, and if you want to develop starting from any sort of open and active code base you have to expect a learning curve and documentation that's not going to be exactly up to date. Keep in mind too that following the sort of massive changes prior to a release it takes a while for the documentation to catch up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: In the press Man I have to agree. I'm just jumping on to the OM bandwagon with the purchase of two freerunners but have reservations about it now. Looking through the Wiki is a pain and a chore to find useful data. Yes there are gems in there but they are buried under tons of old and inaccurate data. Some people having very basic problems, like making a phone call, or playing music, charging the phone, right out of the box is really inexcusable. And for many this list is the only source of possible solutions! If the OM is going to survive and grow into a viable platform something has to change. Somebody is going to have to take the reins on documentation. Information is the key to its success and right now its in shambles. I'm not trying to point a finger or blame anybody. I think the scope has grown beyond the ad-hoc means used up to now, especially since we have a new phone added to the mix. There has to be some distinction between the 1973 and the FR because it appears they are not completely compatible. I think OM is going to have to step up to the plate and dedicate some resources to at least organizing/overseeing and enforcing a standard to the documentation of the project so there is coherence, timeliness and to reduce the outdated and inaccurate information. Scott Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: This stood out for me The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki... Is this an accurate evaluation of the wiki ? If so, what can we do to fix it up, how do we identify old content and schedule it for updating? I think, personally, its time for a 3rd-party site not related to OpenMoko to pick up the slack here. So much stuff happens too quickly for people who /should/ be updating the wiki to feel like its productive to do so .. What I would like to see is something like an mokofanboix.org website come up that has the following: - Daily blog news akin to the good ol' slashdot, of news from the openmoko scene, gleaned from careful inspection of the mailing lists, of IRC, of the codebase, of code delta's, etc. - Public free Repository of all the latest and greatest 'cool apps' found for OpenMoko - Public forum for discussion of the news. This is, of course, sorta what we've got with things like planet.openmoko.org (which I check daily), combined with the Scaredycat repo's and other such things, but .. for newcomers .. I don't think any of this is as easily approachable as it would be if it were all put under a single umbrella that is a bit more of an 'openmoko pop culture' site than what we've got right now .. Jay These are all great ideas and would be very helpful for us. We are a small company. And really try to focus all we can on our products. Community help to make these more approachable is something that would make us all very grateful. Let me know if there is anything specific you think we (Openmoko) could do to help get this all started. -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- - Just because I sound like an idiot doesn't mean I agree with the president.from an ad on Air America Radio ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Reason for GPS problems found!
If it's the EMC shield, just remove it. It's not there to protect the phone, it's there to protect the world from your phone. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Søren Kristiansen Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:28 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Reason for GPS problems found! It's indeed sad that it's the SD reader that's causing the problems, but at least the problem has been found now. It will be much easier to find a decent solution that allows the SD card to remain in the card reader. I just hope it can be fixed at home with some soldering or a homemade EMC-shield. 2008/7/15 Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The problem only occurs if a SD card is set in. Doesn't matter if it's mounted or in use, it just has to sit in the socket. oh man, if this is true, its not good news. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards Søren H. Kristiansen Stud. polyt., Software Engineering, University of Aalborg, Denmark ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Will SD/GPS issue affect delivery of next build?
It sounds like it's electrical. (embedded sw guys love saying that..) But depending how far along the next build is or isn't we could expect FIC to hold up further progress until a fix is implemented. I hope the upcomming 850/900 phones is not delayed extra weeks in order to fix this problem. Personally, I don't care. But I'd like to know either way. Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: MokSec - The Security Framework
How would being root help somebody decrypt a filesystem? Accessing an encrypted filesystem should depend only on having the correct key. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arne anka Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:58 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: MokSec - The Security Framework Personally, I'd be more interested in an encrypted filesystem so that I what use is encryption if the user always is root and no password is required? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: MokSec - The Security Framework
Once the device is powered, and the correct key entered, I would expect it would remain in memory until the phone is powered off. Parnoid types would of course disable network access. Nearly all phones have a secured access mode, where you enter a pin every time you access the phone. That's a must for some. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arne anka Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:26 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: MokSec - The Security Framework How would being root help somebody decrypt a filesystem? Accessing an encrypted filesystem should depend only on having the correct key. well, to be really usefull the fs should be mounted transparently (hacking in the passphrase on every access seems utterly tedious with that tiny keyboard -- and would probably add to the exposure risk). or you need to store the passphrase somewhere on the fr and access it by some automatic. in both cases somebody finding or stealing your fr would be able to read your encrypted data. please, correct me, if i am wrong. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: MokSec - The Security Framework
I would think on a phone the primary concern is protecting the user data. E.g. sms, contacts, history. If somebody was able to malicously install software on the phone, your pretty much already [EMAIL PROTECTED]'ed. Not letting it call out helps, but it's already defeated. I'm assuming we're not installing a lot of new unknowns on a secure device, and anything trying to make network connections is evol. I've been picturing running an encrypted rootfs image off an SD card. There could be multiple encrypted rootfs images, only one would be the real one, or they all could be used for different reasons. Once the system boots it's up to the user to unlock the keys to the encrypted image to be used and that gets booted from the already running kernel. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tilman Baumann Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:38 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: MokSec - The Security Framework Kalle Happonen wrote: However, later on an easily configurable firewall would be almost essential imho. Connecting to the phone (any port) over the wifi should (almost?)never be allowed as default. Even if the point with the phone is that users can do what they want, it doesn't mean that the apps they install shouldn't be protected. And a firewall is almost the only viable way. There's no easy way of making all the apps listen to just one interface, and while host.allow/deny is more lightweight than a firewall, those don't allow distinguishing of interface. SELinux comes to mind. Or at least the capabilites framework. This way i could choose to allow a app to open sockets. (Little bit like java sandboxes) As far as i know we could even have a popup asking for permission. And to give my 2 Eurocents to the everything as root discusion. Running user apps as root must end, better soon. If apps need things only root can do (not much comes to my mind) we could use sudo wrapper or SELinux rules. -- Drucken Sie diese Mail bitte nur auf Recyclingpapier aus. Please print this mail only on recycled paper. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: MokSec - The Security Framework
There's apps that do this, like kdewallet. I was thinking of a picture pin entry. You display a small set of pictures with lots of detail, user must tap 1 or more points on each pictures. Quick entry, good number of bits of encryption, easy to remeber. Plus, when the phone comes up with a picture, to anybody else it just looks like it's stuck booting or broken. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: MokSec - The Security Framework On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Kalle Happonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had some thoughts about that, too. Would be cool if it wasn't necessary to have a PIN at all - you enter the PIN in the first-run-wizard, that will store it. After that you only have one password (of your choise) that does all - the security daemon would lookup in a key/password-database and use your password for all things, like decrypting the other containers (phonebook, messages, e.g.), authing you on the network with the stored pin, unlocking the phone screen, . ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: robotics anyone?
You'd think they'd sell the board bare though. Has anybody asked? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of B Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 4:34 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: robotics anyone? The 99$ debug board is not the same as the phone internals. It is an interface board for doing low level hardware debugging on the phone. AFAIK the phone is not available as a board only, so you're still looking at 399 (or 369 in a 10-pack) for your robotics platform. andres wrote: Hi, Sorry to be a little OT but It looks like a dream FreeRunner board as a robotic platform for $100 Anybody doing anything related? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: slightly off topic: Rogers Canada slashes data plan pricing
listened to customer feedback == anticipated customer backlash and competitors taking advantage of backlash Rogers SUCKS!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Wouters Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:32 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: slightly off topic: Rogers Canada slashes data plan pricing http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080709.wgtiphone0709/BNStory/Technology/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail Customers who purchase an iPhone and sign up for a three-year contract any time between July 11 – when the device goes on sale – and the end of August will be eligible for a $30-per-month data plan giving them access to 6-Gigabytes of data. Rogers previously had charged $100 for a 6-GB plan. Though mostly meant for the iphone, they say: The special plan is available not just to iPhone customers, but any Rogers customer with a 3G next-generation smart phone. Though Rogers claims to have listened to customer feedback, the article also quotes: One blog posting on AppleInsider.com, a popular Apple rumour site, stated that Apple would divert some iPhone shipments that had been earmarked for Rogers to Europe for punishment over the negative publicity, leaving some Rogers outlets with as few as 10 iPhones to sell. Time to get a USB 3G dongle that works on laptop and openmoko. Though getting the 3G subscription might allow you the same rates on the 2G network perhaps? Paul ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: USB keyboard (was Re: Posible Bluetooth Keyboard)
I want to get a frogpad to go with the phone. I've not tried it but they seem pretty cool. http://www.frogpad.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:36 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: USB keyboard (was Re: Posible Bluetooth Keyboard) 2008/7/5 Diego Fdez. Durán [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all! At the moment my FR is travelling to me, so I'm looking for a good portable bluetooth keyboard. What do you think about BT KB? what about Nokia SU-8W? on a similar note, i'm looking for an ultra-small USB keyboard (there are various reasons why I don't like bluetooth). any recommendations? someone suggested this a few weeks back, is there anything else similar/better out there? http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10779 thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!!
Arg!! No AMEX. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harry Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:31 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Openmoko Webshop Reopen NOW!!! Dear All, Sorry for delay long time!!! So far, only GSM850 Freerunner is available in stock, Debug board and spare also!!! http://www.openmoko.com/store.html Freerunner is running Thanks and BR Harry ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: openmoko availability from the online store, set opening time if not date?
Maybe you guys could set a time that the web store will open, on whatever day it does open? E.g. if it's not open by 10am, it's not going to open that day. That could give everybody a fair shot of getting their orders asap. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:00 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: openmoko availability from the online store Mark Sterling wrote: Hi There, First off: Congratulations to the folk who've made openmoko happen and thank you very much :-D I've been wanting one of these devices for a very long time, and now that they are here and among us the time has arrived to purchase one. Only there's a slight snag, the UK distributor truebox state they will only send to the card holders address. Which is all fair enough in terms of combating fraud. Alas I'll need to get one delivered to my work address as I'm unlikely to be at home for a delivery. So, in a nutshell, is there any indication as to when the openmoko.com store will be available for order taking? Very soon. We don't want to open our store until FreeRunners are _in_ the warehouse. Right now they are either on a plane or in customs. Seriously close. Harry and Steve will update you all soon with exact details. -Sean ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: No WLAN AP functionality
But if you can plug a usb wifi stick which the kernel does support AP mode you could then use the internal wifi as the uplink. Be subversive, provide free wifi at airports! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikko Rauhala Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:51 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: No WLAN AP functionality On pe, 2008-06-27 at 10:47 -0500, Hans L wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to use the WiFi in the FreeRunner as an access point? Sadly no, as it's a hardmac chip and the proprietary firmware lacks this feature. You should be able to use ad hoc mode for most purposes, albeit not always as conveniently. -- Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Slashdot post but no web store?
http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/25/1751228from=rss nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9978560959.html its Linux-based, open source Neo Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France, and India, says the company. The Neo Freerunner features an open hardware design, and a Linux-based operating system that users are free to modify. The project originally hoped to produce a mass-market offering last October. The $400 Freerunner will remain available direct, online, too. A 2.5G GPRS/GSM phone like the original iPhone, it boasts a 500MHz processor, WiFi, 3D accelerometers, a 4.3-inch VGA touchscreen, Bluetooth, and built-in GPS. Of course, they link to a dead page.. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9978560959.html I love all the comments from people who've bought iPhones incensed at suggestions that it's any sort of superior device. Matt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Sony's WII phone - bluetooth proximity
http://www.physorg.com/news132919041.html Copy cats.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of W. B. Kranendonk Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:14 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: bluetooth proximity --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Tilman Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AVee wrote: (...) There are a lot of reasons why this is not feasible. Sorry. I tend to agree, however, things might change if you add gps. You'd might just (...) That leaves only the 'exact measurement' to be solved. It might work, but the precision will probably still be far to low to be useable for anything. (absolute position...) But the relative position should be extremely high. (As high as DGPS can get) At least in theory. Thanks for thinking along. What I was thinking of, in a game setting, to use the phone as some sort of hack slash device. Given my opponent and me are withing reasonable proximity, she with -say- a spear-device, me with a sword or so. She could try stabbing me, while I parry. The devices have to calculate the hit ratio. Would a sound-code offer a possible solution? Could we measure some doppler effect with the built in microphone? And, on a side note... How impact proof will the phone be, might she try throwing her spear? :-P ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
tossing contacts
Anybody following the Macross Frontier anime series (personal comm devices seem to be a developed sub-theme) may have noticed recently the tossing of contact information from one cell phone to another. Ep 8 I think.. Would be a cool application of the gesture project. The receiver would have to catch, not exactly at the same time, in order to confirm receipt. Sender does frisbee type toss motion, catcher preforms similar motion in other plane. Possibly incompatible with consumption of buttered toast. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?
There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been released. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:26 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko? On Sunday 15 June 2008 00:03, steve wrote: I'm not exactly sure. I havent asked if they have a continous process or if they build a bunch of PCB and then assemble. Like, build a thousand, assemble a thousand, etc. I know some shipments (university customers) have already landed. Could you explain what you meant by that last sentence? -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Why not use forum?
Sure it does. And maybe we can start emailing around DVD images just to make sure we're wasting as much bandwidth as possible. Matt -Original Message- From: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:00 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: Crane, Matthew Subject: Re: Why not use forum? On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:41:29 -0400 Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Plus, forums usually have provisions for storage and selective notifications. you mail client doesn't store your email? wow! :) -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Why not use forum?
That's debatable. If the average user reads a small set of messages. If the forum is easily cached by a browser. If the mail readers use gmail or similar and already download ads everytime they view a messsage. But yea the dvd comment was kind of stupid. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:10 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Why not use forum? On Friday 13 June 2008 13:07, Crane, Matthew wrote: Matt, there's a lot more crap transferred when using a forum (graphics + html + the actual message) than when using a mail client. The main disadvantage is that you have to be online to read a forum. For email you don't. Your DVD comment is irrelavant. -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Why not use forum?
No kidding, this list is effectively a forum and the discussions would fit nicely on a forum site. Plus, forums usually have provisions for storage and selective notifications. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leonti Bielski Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:31 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Why not use forum? Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. The main Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum? Can anyone explain to me why we can't install ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Whats up with the freerunner mass production?
I think I saw some proballys and some shoulds but I don't remember any announcements. Was there an official announcment? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:06 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Whats up with the freerunner mass production? Hi, And #2. They love hearing your continuous interest in the constant requests for status updates. Are we there yet? No. Are we there yet? No. Are we there yet? No. if you make an announcement for a particular date, you have to live with people asking, when the date passed by. If you say production starts at 19th, don't wonder about people asking on 21th ... Dirk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
I've noticed that with GSM calls in general there is sometimes an echo. It can be very pronouced or barely noticable. It may be hw or sw, but it may not have anything to do with either caller's phone. If it doesn't happen consistently and is not reproducable, it's likely the network. IMHO. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of liwei Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:22 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions On 一, 2008-05-19 at 16:27 -0700, Mike Montour wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: Thanks for posting your review. Perhaps you (or another Freerunner user) can answer a few more questions: How good is the audio quality when having a GSM voice conversation with another person? Can the other caller hear you clearly without being distracted by an echo of their own voice (as happens on at least some GTA01s, mine included)? Is the Neo's speaker volume loud enough for you to hear the other caller in the presence of noise (e.g. outside on a sidewalk)? i agree with Darwin,my phone has above problem.The other caller hear my voic is very small.i must speak very loudly.i want to know this problem be caused by hareware or by software? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Freerunner...when??
Maybe there's some good news today? Cheers, Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:51 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: Freerunner...when?? I gave a short update. Production is slated to start prior to May 16, I don't have an exact date, yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:05 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Freerunner...when?? steve wrote: Yes, A Sunday preview of my Monday update. Am I wrong or we didn't get any Monday update this week? :P Something more than a preview, Steve? :) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using motionsensors in C]
It's dead simple to make ruby bindings, part of what makes ruby nice in
the first place. If you can compile a C program for the moko I bet you
could easily make some ruby bindings.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
ramsesoriginal
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:13 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using
motionsensors in C]
Hi there.
What about programmin in ruby? Are there already some bindings present
to access accellerometers/gps/bluetooth/etc ?
If not, are there any plans on making them?
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| If somebody tells me how to use the accelerometers, I will have a
go. Is
| it just like /dev/joydev ?
You just open /dev/input/event2 (top accel) and/or 3 (bottom). Have
a
look in cross path/usr/include/linux/input.h -- basically these
guys
turn up in there 300 a second:
struct input_event {
struct timeval time;
__u16 type; type = 2
__u16 code; code = 0=X, 1=Y, 2=Z
__s32 value; signed mG force in 18mG steps
};
- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEARECAAYFAkgpPNkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoVuwCfVbgX9PEmkWvsnK8ju7RwzwR5
ilgAn2tDzszlCky4+Vq7d10iiWqB9A5B
=GNI5
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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RE: microSD support
Yea, I got the 32 number from another wikipedia page, I didn't infer it from the name. I don't think it has much really to do with 32bits either for that matter, likely the 32 was entirely a marketing distinction. But that doesn't matter, the important thing here is that Micro$oft sucks. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin fredthecat Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:42 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: microSD support 32gb, the max size of a fat32 system I think the 32 in fat32 refers to bits not gb, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat32 I'm currently using an 80Gb FAT32 drive at this very moment. Part of the confusion might be that Windows won't allow you to easily format a large drive in FAT32 but instead forces you to NTFS. regards Crane, Matthew wrote: I think it can be a more general then that. The cards that are supported would be any standards compliant card, and the adress space would be limited by what the kernel supports. The SD card association has limtied the size of sdhc to 32gb, the max size of a fat32 system. The kernel can support disks this large as can the mmc card driver. No doubt there's a lot of crappy SD cards out there that don't comply well to standard interfaces though, but unless you're really really skimping there's likely nothing to worry about with any common microsd cards. You could even support larger cards because we aren't limited to fat32 on a linux phone. But has anybody found an SD card that doesn't work with existing hardware?? I only wish I had hardware so I can't test the few cards I have.. Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Tabbal Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:52 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: microSD support I think he's asking if the phone will support SDHC, which is required for larger cards and many older devices do not support. Or perhaps if 8GB in particular has been tested. It would be nice to know exactly what is supported, as those 8GB cards are getting cheap lately. We might have to wait for the first phones to ship to know for sure what will or will not work. Right now, only the OM dev team at FIC could test it for sure, and they are kind of busy getting mass production going. I think I'd rather have them do that and test the microSD size limits later. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From wikipedia entry on current sd cards: Memory capacity = (C_SIZE+1) * 512 K = (222-1+1) * 512 K = (4194304-1+1) * 512K = 2147483648 K = 2048 GB So you're probally good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Giorgio M. Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: microSD support I know that freerunner will support MicroSD memory. I want know wich capacity it will support?can i use 8GB microSD?? what is the limit? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: microSD support
To beat this ad-nauseum.. From wikipedia fat entry: Finally in November 1987, Compaq DOS 3.31 introduced what is today called the FAT16 format, with the expansion of the 16-bit disk sector index to 32 bits. The fat32 section states: Microsoft decided to implement a newer generation of FAT, known as FAT32, with cluster values held in a 32-bit field, of which 28 bits are used to hold the cluster number, for a maximum of approximately 268 million (228) clusters. This would allow for drive sizes of up to 8 tebibytes with 32KiB clusters, but the boot sector uses a 32-bit field for the sector count, limiting volume size to 2TiB on a hard disk with 512 byte sectors. But really this amounts to an excuse to explain why they called it fat32, which was really a marketing decsion. No doubt if one were to dig into the wiki logs the person who explained this probally edited other M$ related entires. (caffine induced paranoia? Possibly..) The core explanation being that M$ sucks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:30 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: microSD support Crane, Matthew writes: Yea, I got the 32 number from another wikipedia page, I didn't infer it from the name. I don't think it has much really to do with 32bits either for that matter, likely the 32 was entirely a marketing distinction. No, the 32 means that the FAT entries are 32 bits (in contrast to the earlier FAT aka FAT12 and FAT16 filesystems). But that doesn't matter, the important thing here is that Micro$oft sucks. That's a separte issue :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / usingmotionsensors in C]
Sure, I guess without greping the source tree or looking at the list of
packages (if there is a list) that ruby is not present as why would it
be when it takes up space and isn't really a scripting language used by
various common packages.
If the GPS/accellerometer data is obtainable from a /proc file you don't
need ruby extensions, you can just open it directly. There's probally
no advantage to an extension unless you wanted to do something above the
level of just acquiring data.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
ramsesoriginal
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 3:17 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games /
usingmotionsensors in C]
Yes, but since we don't have to reinvent the wheel, iasked if someone
alread made it. Also i never wrote ruby for gps/accelerometer,
soarethere somecommon practices/mixins?
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
It's dead simple to make ruby bindings, part of what makes ruby nice
in
the first place. If you can compile a C program for the moko I bet
you
could easily make some ruby bindings.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
ramsesoriginal
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:13 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Programming in Ruby [WAS: Re: Freerunner games / using
motionsensors in C]
Hi there.
What about programmin in ruby? Are there already some bindings
present
to access accellerometers/gps/bluetooth/etc ?
If not, are there any plans on making them?
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| If somebody tells me how to use the accelerometers, I will have
a
go. Is
| it just like /dev/joydev ?
You just open /dev/input/event2 (top accel) and/or 3 (bottom).
Have
a
look in cross path/usr/include/linux/input.h -- basically these
guys
turn up in there 300 a second:
struct input_event {
struct timeval time;
__u16 type; type = 2
__u16 code; code = 0=X, 1=Y, 2=Z
__s32 value; signed mG force in 18mG steps
};
- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEARECAAYFAkgpPNkACgkQOjLpvpq7dMoVuwCfVbgX9PEmkWvsnK8ju7RwzwR5
ilgAn2tDzszlCky4+Vq7d10iiWqB9A5B
=GNI5
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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RE: microSD support
You are too kind to microsoft. Similar to the 4gb RAM barrier it is pretty much a 100% marketing decsion to support file systems of a given size in a particular OS. Why would anybody shell out the coin for the fancy new OS's with their funny looking guis if old ones worked just fine with all the new hardware? Microsoft even had to go beyond these limitations and charge extra for XP, vs. vista, so that people would find some easy reason to actually buy vista. I just paid the 40$ tax for XP on a recent purchase. The RAM footprint mostly would have to do with the number of files on disk, not the addressable disk size. I expect that nearly all modern file system implementations either use 64bit pointers or a 32bit pointer, rarely in between, except for 48bit (32 + 16) implementations. It would be impractical for a driver to attempt to exploit effeciencies around disk pointers in a 32bit vs. 36bit disk space for example. Complexity can often be much more expensive then ineffeciencies. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of enaut Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 4:52 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: microSD support Kevin Dean schrieb: It's also worth noting that the 32GB limit is also artificial. 2048GB is the technical limit for SDHC, if I recall correctly. but did you ever think of Ram usage at this sizes? it would exeed the neo by far - thats why microsoft limitad the size and thats why unix did it different from the beginning. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: microSD support
From wikipedia entry on current sd cards: Memory capacity = (C_SIZE+1) * 512 K = (222-1+1) * 512 K = (4194304-1+1) * 512K = 2147483648 K = 2048 GB So you're probally good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Giorgio M. Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: microSD support I know that freerunner will support MicroSD memory. I want know wich capacity it will support?can i use 8GB microSD?? what is the limit? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: microSD support
I think it can be a more general then that. The cards that are supported would be any standards compliant card, and the adress space would be limited by what the kernel supports. The SD card association has limtied the size of sdhc to 32gb, the max size of a fat32 system. The kernel can support disks this large as can the mmc card driver. No doubt there's a lot of crappy SD cards out there that don't comply well to standard interfaces though, but unless you're really really skimping there's likely nothing to worry about with any common microsd cards. You could even support larger cards because we aren't limited to fat32 on a linux phone. But has anybody found an SD card that doesn't work with existing hardware?? I only wish I had hardware so I can't test the few cards I have.. Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Tabbal Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:52 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: microSD support I think he's asking if the phone will support SDHC, which is required for larger cards and many older devices do not support. Or perhaps if 8GB in particular has been tested. It would be nice to know exactly what is supported, as those 8GB cards are getting cheap lately. We might have to wait for the first phones to ship to know for sure what will or will not work. Right now, only the OM dev team at FIC could test it for sure, and they are kind of busy getting mass production going. I think I'd rather have them do that and test the microSD size limits later. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From wikipedia entry on current sd cards: Memory capacity = (C_SIZE+1) * 512 K = (222-1+1) * 512 K = (4194304-1+1) * 512K = 2147483648 K = 2048 GB So you're probally good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Giorgio M. Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: microSD support I know that freerunner will support MicroSD memory. I want know wich capacity it will support?can i use 8GB microSD?? what is the limit? thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases
Yea, there's all kinds of ways that people use every day to transact with others who they've no way of meeting or even calling on the phone. If you are concerned, then maybe the price to fix the concern is to just order the phone individually. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi michele Michele Renda wrote: For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee. i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish. so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we are not paypal. we build the free and open mobile phone. and we want to focus on that. I agree with Joachim. And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering the 10-pack could make a simple contract for payment delivery of the phone. Then people could pay and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub person to prove he sent the phone. The contract must include payment shipping details. I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some, because I do not have enough cash to order 22 phones ++. I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone deal. If people do not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no quantum discount. This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing the phone. They are not a shippinginsurance company. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM))
What's wrong with Eclipse? It's much more common for embedded IDE's isn't it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:08 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM)) Nah, I'd been planning on getting haskell up for OM. They already have a basic ARM target for ghc, and there's already a haskell-GTK mapping. But, now that we're talking about development environments, who'd be interested in using an IDE for developing OM? I was thinking about putting together a Netbeans plugin to dev for it. I'm wondering: 1. anyone want to use such a thing? 2. anyone wanna help? I'll be using Mac OS X solaris personally (probably more of the latter), but if someone'd be up for testing it on Linux, I'd be happy to support that too. A nice little basis to create wizards for all kinds of OM applications, plugins, etc. sounds like good community open-source fun. I'd consider this my first big contribution to OM, so I'm happy to do it. Please, no religious wars on Java/NetBeans, etc. Feel free to use the work for your own desires after, but I've been through enough dev cycles on other platforms that I'm feeling pretty firm on this. If you say 'Eclipse', I'm going to traceroute you from a cell modem in my car, and bring a baseball bat with me. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Uvman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus! I thought I was the only one wanting to program CL on the OM. I've had lots of interesting ideas on how to use a gesture-based interface for writing CL, which could work only thanks to the sparse syntax, and plan to make that some of the first things I program for my OM. Hooray! /Oliver Uvman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM))
Which eclipse version were you using? I think in the past, like 2y ago, it was buggier. I'd say it's pretty solid these days. And it's way faster. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:19 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM)) Eclipse has a faster widget toolkit, but it tends to be a lot buggier dumber about a lot of things. You end up spending a lot more time fiddling with it to work right than NB. The tradeoff w/NB is that it tends to do the right thing, but is slower. Definitely so on my mac, but the speed difference on Solaris isn't noticeable on my opteron sun box. Also, it comes with some stuff that you have to get separately (sometimes at cost, or with a annoyware freeware version) for eclipse. UML editing comes to mind. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's wrong with Eclipse? It's much more common for embedded IDE's isn't it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:08 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM)) Nah, I'd been planning on getting haskell up for OM. They already have a basic ARM target for ghc, and there's already a haskell-GTK mapping. But, now that we're talking about development environments, who'd be interested in using an IDE for developing OM? I was thinking about putting together a Netbeans plugin to dev for it. I'm wondering: 1. anyone want to use such a thing? 2. anyone wanna help? I'll be using Mac OS X solaris personally (probably more of the latter), but if someone'd be up for testing it on Linux, I'd be happy to support that too. A nice little basis to create wizards for all kinds of OM applications, plugins, etc. sounds like good community open-source fun. I'd consider this my first big contribution to OM, so I'm happy to do it. Please, no religious wars on Java/NetBeans, etc. Feel free to use the work for your own desires after, but I've been through enough dev cycles on other platforms that I'm feeling pretty firm on this. If you say 'Eclipse', I'm going to traceroute you from a cell modem in my car, and bring a baseball bat with me. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Uvman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus! I thought I was the only one wanting to program CL on the OM. I've had lots of interesting ideas on how to use a gesture-based interface for writing CL, which could work only thanks to the sparse syntax, and plan to make that some of the first things I program for my OM. Hooray! /Oliver Uvman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM))
Ouch.. Kdevelop is a great way to quickly get an autotooled project going, work with a shell, doxygen, cvs, gdb. Yea, it may have a few more stability issues then even eclipse. I mean, if you are expecting perfection, open-source tools just aren't going to appeal. I guess Netbeans was comercially developed and may have a bit more robustness, but lacks the open integration of eclipse and kdev? Visual Studio is terrible, I agree with that. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:57 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM)) You're welcome to do so :-) I use NB for development for my day job the PhD. I also have no respect for KDevelop. I think it's almost as terrible as Visual Studio. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm... KDevelop 4? (it's being reimplemented and is looking super-nifty by now) :) Wednesday 07 May 2008 skrev Lally Singh: Nah, I'd been planning on getting haskell up for OM. They already have a basic ARM target for ghc, and there's already a haskell-GTK mapping. But, now that we're talking about development environments, who'd be interested in using an IDE for developing OM? I was thinking about putting together a Netbeans plugin to dev for it. I'm wondering: 1. anyone want to use such a thing? 2. anyone wanna help? I'll be using Mac OS X solaris personally (probably more of the latter), but if someone'd be up for testing it on Linux, I'd be happy to support that too. A nice little basis to create wizards for all kinds of OM applications, plugins, etc. sounds like good community open-source fun. I'd consider this my first big contribution to OM, so I'm happy to do it. Please, no religious wars on Java/NetBeans, etc. Feel free to use the work for your own desires after, but I've been through enough dev cycles on other platforms that I'm feeling pretty firm on this. If you say 'Eclipse', I'm going to traceroute you from a cell modem in my car, and bring a baseball bat with me. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Uvman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus! I thought I was the only one wanting to program CL on the OM. I've had lots of interesting ideas on how to use a gesture-based interface for writing CL, which could work only thanks to the sparse syntax, and plan to make that some of the first things I program for my OM. Hooray! /Oliver Uvman ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://www.leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
Thank you for not opening the shop before there is something to sell. This is getting way too common of practice at various electronics websites. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:39 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the disty ready to ship before I opened the web shop. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Reichel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve: Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner? I will update the production status over the weekend! Hi, the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany, where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D greetings from Europe, Sebastian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Stylus Recommendation
Sounds like a good candidate for emachnie shop. But how tightly can something like that be locked to the side of the phone? A usb connector by itself is probally not suffecient no? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Milburn Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:06 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Stylus Recommendation Just had a crazy thought while reading this thread Someone (read: not me. I AM a EE :) ) could make a stylus with a usb connector sticking out along the side. Then, the stylus could plug into the usb port and be held tight against the side of the phone. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like a Nintendo DS style stylus and holder because they're small, cheap, I like how they fit into the casing of the DS. I would try to use the FreeRunner CAD data ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Case ) to make my own case mod design if I could find something to convert Pro-E files. As it stands I refuse to buy Pro-E for a single hobby project. On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 09:12 +0200, Nicanor Babula wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not an electrical engineer, but I think that the voltage/current produced from such a magnet would be negligible. But, even assuming that it would not be harmful, isn't the case made of plastic? Is Well you could take apart the phone and try to find a place to stash a small, really strong neodymium magnet. Then use a thin steel stylus (with a soft plastic tip), shaped to fit against whatever surface has the magnet. It could even fit against the side of the phone, if it had a slightly concave shape. Or mod the case to have a shallow groove for the stylus to fit into, then the stylus could just be a thin steel bar, or rounded on one side as suggested. Since the magnet doesn't move, it shouldn't cause any inductive pulses (although it might cause electrons that are trying to move in a straight line to go off in a curve instead. Not sure if that would affect anything...) Now I am using a motorola A1200E Motoming (linux based ;) ) and it has a stylus too. I like very much the way the stylus is attached to my motorola and I would like to see it on the neo if it doesn't create large additional costs. Check it out: http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motomingedge/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
Hmm.. 2% failure? That's a bit high, no? Does the pcb have some issues? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:48 AM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve? I'm trying to clarify that now. Yeild is good there will not be another cycle. Test throughput, how long it takes to test the phone is being improved. One production starts we will just build continuously, The build process is very fast. The test on the back end, lets say to catch the 2% of failure is the gating item, but that can be parallelized somewhat, Then you have to figure the shipping. do I ship a lot per week, build two weeks and ship, etc. What is your dissertation on? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:57 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Just to clarify, what kind of time range would be needed? A week (4 weeks?) for production, plus another week (4 weeks) for testing? If testing shows problems, possibly another 6 weeks for another cycle? I don't want some sort of indirect promise on the delivery date -- I know it's too fuzzy. Just some help interpreting the meaning of the update. Personally I'm already committed and don't mind having some more time of productivity on my dissertation before the sudden halt that will arrive when the phone arrives :-D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:44 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor correction, After we complete the test on the Pre MP, if we hit the Yeild numbers required, we start MP on the 9th at the earliest!. So, I'd put the window at May 9 to may 16th. Just to be accurate. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:39 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve? The last Pre MP is done and mass production is slated to start on may 9. Phones will start rolling off the lines, they will go through test, They will be shipped to distribution. When the Phones hit the dock and are ready to ship, I'll do a press release and announce to the list and the store will open. So you have 3 steps: build phone. test phone. ship phone. Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the disty ready to ship before I opened the web shop. Also, I need to update everybody on software. Sorry for the short response, but those are the facts as I have them -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Reichel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve: Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner? I will update the production status over the weekend! Hi, the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany, where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D greetings from Europe, Sebastian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- H. Lally Singh Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science Virginia Tech ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manageit) SOON
Or somebody could set up a build server at home that automatically updates a wiki status.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron K. Jeffries Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 12:46 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manageit) SOON From: Bobby Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ~~~ To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. ~~~ OpenMoko powers that be: PLEASE Hire someone to create and maintain the build process NOW. It will increase productivity of your developers as well as the community developer team. The investment of one additional FTE will help enormously. be well -- Ron K. Jeffries Twitter @RonKJeffries mobile 805 567 4670 http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: mobile gps gaming
It could be taken a step further. - multiple caches and seekers - whenever a chache is found by one person the map is updated (via sms) to show that the cache has been removed - central server could be used to prevent cheating, e.g. send the codes to the server, or host phone, which authenticates and updates the shared map This would add multiplayer strategy to geocacheing. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:50 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming Hi, Interesting. The other obvious game for a GPS-enabled phone is a treasure hunt including geographical clues. this is called Geocaching [1]. SCNR Dirk [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: mobile gps gaming
Yea, I'm excited too. I was thinking it would be possible to use the accelerometer + GPS to make the phone act like a window into the game world. Where you can look around in 3d. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:53 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming Robin Paulson wrote: i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on mobile phones: There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones... teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press. I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future Button and LED software spec)
How complicated would surgery to fix this be? Is it reasonable to create a wiki page detailing hw fix? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Green Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:56 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future Button and LED software spec) -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | | Is it possible to turn off these LEDs via Software? | Yes, they're all controlled from the CPU and default to being off. | Does this mean that they won't draw any power when they're turned off? They won't draw any power when off... that part works as intended. It's only when you turn them on, the transistor causes the CPU pin itself to eat current itself due to an oversight. The effect in consumption terms is something as if you lit several LEDs instead of the one, say. But the LEDs come on and off as normal, are lit properly, etc. In normal use the LEDs aren't on much if at all, so it isn't anything that would stop me getting an A5 personally. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgXGtEACgkQOjLpvpq7dMqdMACgimwT/C7TFsv+edbZQIzFN0zE 5tYAnjamWgbP2T42BLJFrOMMU8q/0V52 =e/Vh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
I understand what you're saying about engineers tossing a product over the wall being a throw back. *Of course* there's back and forth and both marketing and rnd contributing to each other.. But I think it is typical for engineers to yearn for a larger role in marketing decisions and, less so, marketing to overstate their role in product engineering. Both groups have strong investments in the product dev process in different ways. I think engineering tends to be more of a group development effort, where marketing relies more on the strength of individuals, all with very good reasons. If the concerns are too overlapped, or if there is no seperation and specialization, I don't think that works well generally. I think there's very high value wrt role seperation and specialization. I don't think it was suggested that there was some kind of wall in the middle, that's ridiculous. But the best products come from a respect for the others roles and intense focus on what people are good at. Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:11 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) Ok.. I'm severely jet lagged but I will try to throw some closure on this and hope it is coherent. Steve has been very cordial and enlightening in his mails to me. The last I have yet to digest and respond to but overall it is good, constructive stuff. After reading the diaglogue that has ensued, I totally understand why he wanted to take the conversation private. We'll has some things and go from there. Sorry for starting a firestorm. I want to let everyone know I don't intend to be negative and that was why I sent that last message. If I see problems, I want to offer solutions. I also want to thank Stroller for his phenomenal job for capturing (and translating) what I was trying to say. There was one statement made that I want to comment on... I mean marketing is really just how to sellSNIP That statement could not be farther from the truth, IMHO. I think any Tech CEO worth his salt would tell you the same. That very statement and belief is why so many startups in Silicon Valley (and probably worldwide) with very amazing products have gone bankrupt. I have friends that lived through that nightmare. That mindset is the very essence of the problem my original e-mail was trying to address. I couldn't have summed it better myself. It makes it sound like engineering comes up with a product all on it's own, throws it over a wall and to Marketing and says here, sell it. Kind of like a hot potato. That was the case once... in the 60's, I believe. Today, any company that had that mindset would not last long unless they had very deep pockets. Yes, I have a specific company in mind. My thought is let's roll that marketing effort over to this project from a community perspective. A lot of Open Source projects already do it.. Open Office is the first one that comes to mind. One of the thing I want to do with Steve is draw some boundaries... What is in Openmoko's court, and what is in the community's court regarding marketing... etc. In the meantime, let's roll out the FreeRunner and once it's out, well attack the next project publicly. Ok.. I'm going to sleep now. :) Cheers! Lowell On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:58 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks for explaining that to folks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stroller Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:01 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On 28 Apr 2008, at 17:54, hank williams wrote: I have to say my unvoiced thoughts were the same as Ryan's. I was not at all clear why a call for the community to help figure marketing stuff out would be met by a request to take the discussion off list as though it was somehow inappropriate for public discussion. It seemed like a very strange response. Now reading the responses to Ryan's comments seem even more strange. I feel like I am missing something because the responses to Ryan's comments seem on the surface, inappropriate as well. If you read further back in this thread you'll see that the subject changed in reply to my message, Re: Ugliness (26 April 2008 13:58:04 BST). If you read back you'll see that before that someone was complaining the Freerunner will never sell in the mass-market because me my friends think it's ugly, and my counterpoint was, heck, I'm sure FIC have done some market research (focus groups c).
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
The how to sell comment I made was a vast generalization meant to differentiate the roles of marketing and engineering in a crass way. Very easy to jump on, I know. Do you really think google engineers part of the day to day marketing meetings there? Or the same at Apple? Or sony? I doubt it.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:04 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On 4/29/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean marketing is really just how to sellSNIP That statement could not be farther from the truth, IMHO. I think any Tech I agree 100% with Lowell. When I think of marketing I think of Apple and Google. Apple is for some specific group of people while Google manage to reach all. Why? It is not because Google is free. Try to compare OpenOffice with m$ office. M$ office gets its users because it's pushed on us (huge availability and commenly known). Google engineered what the market requested. They found out what people wanted and how to give it to them. I remember that I started using the search engine because someone recommended it to me. This was many years ago... other people recommended me other search engines. Some might be better, but Google is good enough so I do not change right now. I have no idea about marketing, but I like Steve's idea about open marketing. If we show the phone to many people, some of them might get interested. I started using Linux because a friend of me told me about it. If Openmoko should get out to x million people, I think we all need to work together. Remember it is in our own interest to make Openmoko survive. Showing off the phone would make a difference. If we want to show something to non-hackers, we (the community) needs to develop a a lot of nice software, so that people say Wow! I want that feature!. I remember my friend told me that he don't care about what his phone is able to do, as long as it is slim, long battery capacity and that he is able to send/receive calls/SMS. Now I wonder, which features would be so valuable that he would not care about the physical design? If the phone was also a nitendo wii? Well, then it is up to us, the community, to implement software that makes the phone work as a nitendo wii. Only this way will garantee success. Lack of features in hardware (e.g. camera) must be compensated for in software (e.g. image drawing programs and support for sending/receiving images). If Openmoko survives, we could get more open firmware and GPL'ed drivers. If Openmoko gets 1% of the mobile market, they can start to push companies into GPL. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
There is nothing incredible about apple's electrical, software, or mechanical engineering. IMHO.. The marketing/buzz machine is incredible though. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) If this is primarily a developer platform, why are there so many intense opinions about such superficial things as color and marketing anyways? In today's world, there is *very* little daylight between marketing and engineering. They are of a piece. The product design, the feature set, and yes even the physical form factor are all both engineering issues as well as marketing issues. Apple is a prime example of this. The beauty of the design of their products is all about marketing, but could not be achieved without incredible engineering on the electrical, software, and mechanical engineering fronts. So I don't think, particularly for a phone, you can separate these issues. Hank -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
Clever design != feat of engineering. Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:26 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nothing incredible about apple's electrical, software, or mechanical engineering. IMHO.. The marketing/buzz machine is incredible though. I presume that you have never worked on a team that has built a successful mainstream consumer product, because if you did, you certainly would not be able to dismiss their success in this manner. Making things that sell has very little to do with advertising. hype does not just come from nowhere, as if from the heavens. If crappy products could win based on good advertising, all that would be required was money and clearly that is not nearly enough (see Microsoft Vista). The bottom line is that best selling tech gadgets, software, and computers sell to primarily tech savvy people because they like them. They like them, because the designers and developers have figured out how to make broadly appealing products. That is hard. If you are suggesting otherwise without actually having a resume that suggests you have done so yourself, you really don't have much of an argument. Hank From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) If this is primarily a developer platform, why are there so many intense opinions about such superficial things as color and marketing anyways? In today's world, there is *very* little daylight between marketing and engineering. They are of a piece. The product design, the feature set, and yes even the physical form factor are all both engineering issues as well as marketing issues. Apple is a prime example of this. The beauty of the design of their products is all about marketing, but could not be achieved without incredible engineering on the electrical, software, and mechanical engineering fronts. So I don't think, particularly for a phone, you can separate these issues. Hank -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
It would detract from the argument to not speak to the points, so I will not argue about experience. You look only for a way to minimize my argument. Your argument is similar to suggesting Nike has superior engineering because they have the coolest shoes. No doubt there is some engineering at Nike wrt shoes but it aint that special in the grand scheme of things. It's about selling a minimal product with high margins, like Apple. If we take as a simplistic metric the number of inferences and resulting complexity produced from work at the company required to go from the drawing board to the product release, then the engineering that goes into an iPhone is not really any more then most of the McWindows phones out there. A lot of design and art and marketing considerations mostly, but that is not really engineering, and what's left is for the most part just a cheap computer with off the shelf parts. Parts that minimally met the quality requirments, no doubt. Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clever design != feat of engineering. Matt again, unless you have engineered a clever design I don't think you have much credibility on this. Executing appealing products from an engineering perspective is incredibly hard. What experiences do you have on this front which would suggest otherwise. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:26 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nothing incredible about apple's electrical, software, or mechanical engineering. IMHO.. The marketing/buzz machine is incredible though. I presume that you have never worked on a team that has built a successful mainstream consumer product, because if you did, you certainly would not be able to dismiss their success in this manner. Making things that sell has very little to do with advertising. hype does not just come from nowhere, as if from the heavens. If crappy products could win based on good advertising, all that would be required was money and clearly that is not nearly enough (see Microsoft Vista). The bottom line is that best selling tech gadgets, software, and computers sell to primarily tech savvy people because they like them. They like them, because the designers and developers have figured out how to make broadly appealing products. That is hard. If you are suggesting otherwise without actually having a resume that suggests you have done so yourself, you really don't have much of an argument. Hank From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) If this is primarily a developer platform, why are there so many intense opinions about such superficial things as color and marketing anyways? In today's world, there is *very* little daylight between marketing and engineering. They are of a piece. The product design, the feature set, and yes even the physical form factor are all both engineering issues as well as marketing issues. Apple is a prime example of this. The beauty of the design of their products is all about marketing, but could not be achieved without incredible engineering on the electrical, software, and mechanical engineering fronts. So I don't think, particularly for a phone, you can separate these issues. Hank -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS
Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach. My idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with properties that would preserve most of the codec performance. But it would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can be added and removed without warning. But in terms of complexity and chance of success, it does seem like the encrypted SMS is both practical and feasible, compared to any sort of voice encryption. Maybe a composite solution? Secure voip session initiated by encrypted SMS? Is there a benfit to using smartcard SAMs for encrypted peer2peer communications with OpenMoko? SD card with SAM: http://www.sdid.com/products1010.shtml Or the GPG fellowship card: http://gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Stirling Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:31 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Newbee wants to kick start - encrypted calls Crane, Matthew wrote: Not sure if there's a specific project, I'm hoping to do some sort of analog encryption, with audio effects and inverse effects, such that it does not need to be digitally decoded, where the excellent pattern recognition engine in the brain does most of the work. You can't do much. It has to 'sound' voice-like to the multiple codecs in the signal chain of a GSM call, or the codec just discards the sound. Listen to a voice over a good GSM line. It's quite well reproduced. Now, listen to an assortment of music. Some will come out quite well, and be reproduced much like they came out. Some are utterly shredded. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS
It does not take full encryption to ensure privacy. Privacy being that without the inverse transform: - words are not resolvable - voices cannot be matched to the callers - any aproxmized inverse performed by a third party would result in something that is not usable in a legal context. Really, voice calls have to be pretty clear as is for transcripts to be admitted in court. There is large leeway given to legal entities producing transcripts, with interpretation of mumbles and the selection of what parts of the conversations that are transcribed (e.g. marking conversations as unintelligble that are favourable to the person being investigated). But I expect you're right, it's too difficult and not practical. Not compared with the alternatives. I like secure VOIP initiated from encrypted SMS. A wireless connection is always available in a big city. Once the IP addresses have been transmitted securely the conversation is anonymous and no record will exist, even of the duration of the conversation. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Stirling Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:24 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Newbee ..- encrypted calls/SMS Crane, Matthew wrote: Yes, I understand that, that is why I'm thinking of this approach. My idea was to use analog voice transforms and their inverse with properties that would preserve most of the codec performance. But it would be awfully difficult to sync up the inverse on the other end without a data connection, I expect that with voice calls that delay can be added and removed without warning. There are no simple voice transforms at all that will get through the codec, and actually encrypt. Voice changing is possible, but encryption is not. You _cannot_ - for example - exepect frequency inversion - to get through the codec chain. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Newbee wants to kick start - encrypted calls
Not sure if there's a specific project, I'm hoping to do some sort of analog encryption, with audio effects and inverse effects, such that it does not need to be digitally decoded, where the excellent pattern recognition engine in the brain does most of the work. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adilson Oliveira Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:48 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Newbee wants to kick start - second try -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello. Sorry for being pushy but I've seem even blank emails being answered, I wonder why mine wasn't the first time so I decided to try again :) I've been fascinated for this project for some time and now, with the proximity of the Freerunner release, I want to start to be a bit more active. I also have been following this list for a few days and I would like to have some clarifications. - - Looks like there's some movement towards pre-sales of the freerunner. Is there something set for Latin America (I'm in Brazil)? I didn't see any in the wiki page so I suppose there's none yet, right? Can I start one or is there any pre-requisites? - - Next month I'll in in Europe and I could use this time to grab mine. Is the release time of the freerunner already set? - - I've being reading about a project to implement cryptography on Openmoko so the calls and text messages can be secured, unfortunately I forgot the name of the project but I've heard that voice calls can't be secured like that due limitations on the way GSM work. Is this correct? Thanks and []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEIF/2cB5Bt7H7YARAud+AKCU9lMbjg857XttODOc+1V7GozvbgCfVxz5 5J0ahZkXOLyob7Gzs0ySGS4= =85Tz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Yea, not to mention all the extra crap you gotta pay if you want to have a broad base of sw. These mobile devices are turning into platforms where software fees for dinky little apps are to be the primary source of income for the hardware mfgr, much like game consoles. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works. Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost 399$. In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes and so on. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !
Give me a break. 1) Worst case, no fix, so led is disabled. Phone is therefore useless? Why do you exaggerate? I speculate you are discouraging people so that they also waste there money on an iPhone and therefore partially validate your flawed decision to buy one. 2) Open development taken with current community size means we are already past the critical volume required to sustain long term access to knowledgeable people and web resources. The traffic on the dev lists for openmoko is comparable to projects that sustain for many years. 3) iPhone + gps = 399$ + 150$ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fredrik Markström Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:28 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Progress on GTA01 power management issues ! Still no official comments on this issue ? Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before spending $399 on another piece of potentially useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as silent and unresponsive, using busy with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision. The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 ! /Fredrik ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
Exactly. Every cell phone I've ever had has contained obvious firmware bugs, firmware or otherwise. The difference is with openness you are far more likely to find and resolve the bugs. I hope it ships, it would be crazy to not ship with such a minor issue that can be soft fixed. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:35 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework Yup. And if we've all been patiently waiting for *quite* a while, it was to get out hands on *Stable Hardware(tm)* and handle half finished software ourselves. Heck, what happened to that requirement in the meantime ? Welcome to the real world. Do you really belive you get totally optimal hardware without known bugs with any vendor? I don't thing so. It's always a judgement call and you just don't see what is know suboptimal with other vendors. I think one small element that's off most of the time drawing a bit more energy than absolutly needed isn't the end of the world. There will always be better hardware on the horizont with computer devices... If you try to get perfect you will never be able to buy anything. With openmoko you just get a tiny bit more information showing so. Well, it's up to you to decide what to do. But honestly i think this is a bit out of proportion. Did anybody try to calculate how much this added draw will shorten the uptime of the phone? if not how can you claim it's a blocker problem? - Martin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: home zone functionality, use voip for this?
There is no search on the mailing list so I'm not sure if this has been discussed previously. Has anybody tested voip with openmoko? Maybe is an easy way to implement a cheap home-zone. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthias Lohr Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:48 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: home zone functionality Hello everyone, I didn't find an answer to my question. I had a look at the wish list for the FreeRunner and wanted to add a software feature but wasn't allowed to edit the page so I'm writing it in this mailing list. I'm german and using o2. It offers the so called Homezone which is a area you can define the center. When in this area (depending on GSM cells) you can give and receive calls with a additionaly provided fixed line number at lower charge. So my question is: is this feature already in the todo list? Since Vodafone and T-Mobile is offering an equivalent service for about one or two years now I think that it would be worth to implement this. Thank you for the great work!! Can't wait to get it!! Best regards, Matthias -- Mein öffentlicher Schlüssel zur E-Mailverschlüsselung ist verfügbar unter: http://www.mlohr.de/kontakt/web.asc ___ Jetzt neu! Schützen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=00 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: DHL has a package for me!
Post them to engadget/gizmodo? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander Frøyseth Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:24 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: DHL has a package for me! Support that. Please post som images :D NeoSleg skrev: Could you please take some pictures and make some movies ? Just to help us waiting for it ;) On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:57:17 -0700, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My samples arrived! I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to send them a copy of My social security card or my taxes. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing, cc purchase options
Can I ask that the US product website support either PayPal or Amex in addition to MC/Visa? Thanks, Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:13 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Stylus is of course on the goodie list. Things I will give away to the first few thousand buyers. If you like the stylus approach, the one we have is great. I know its great because at every trade show when I leave it on the table somebody snatches it! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:59 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update and no more stylus ? On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/13, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add some other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers. There won't be a charger in the standard box? And I thought there was a custom charger allowing the Freerunner to charge at a high current? /Erland ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Battery time?
I've yet to see battery tests for a device reported that actually match the typical use, or at least typical for me. This is the kind of thing the wiki is better suited to. Maybe a battery life page with tables for avg talk time etc? Even an app which profiles battery and charging. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:34 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Battery time? Tim Shannon wrote: I think that has been one of the top unanswered questions on many peoples minds. I don't think we've gotten a solid answer yet, but I'm sure it will come in time. Exactly... We've asked this also few days ago [1], but we didn't get any answer. I really hope that this is not due to problems (i.e.: the battery life doesn't last as expected), but only to missing tests (i.e.: no one had enough time to test correctly the battery life both in standby and durning call/gps/wifi). [1] http://tinyurl.com/6kmzak -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accelerometer thought
Brilliant. Would provide an excellent starting point from which further and possibly more sophisticated profile switching on accelerometer feedback. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:13 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: accelerometer thought It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
Very reasonable. Is there any chance you guys could update your website to take Amex? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:51 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB chargers before I send these samples out. Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing, 1. Products. Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages. Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and attract more developers. 2. Pricing We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits. Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product. We priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar capability. My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399. USD. We did that. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later. The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD. Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small business, sometimes a small group or club. For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will charge 369 per phone. Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how the product will get distributed Steve ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Product Update
May the test gods be with you. This product will leapfrog the iPod and provide pleasure to all five of your senses. The user can download pictures, smells, tastes and celebrity tickling patterns. The test group preferred it over eating. They're all dead. It has the coolness factor. - Dilbert and The Boss -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:44 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: Product Update It's the final push people so everybody keep your good humour. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?
Does it not work with the NOR because some chip selects or other similar #define type thing needs to be updated? Or is it not ever going to work with NOR flash? Thanks, Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 9:18 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2? Hi Matthew, I have checked with the experts. GTA01 debug board will work with GTA02 (Freerunner), with some exceptions: 1. You can not program NOR FLASH 2. I2C and SPI aren't available on the debug board The main functions, JTAG and serial console, will be just fine. And you CAN program NAND FLASH. Michael Crane, Matthew wrote: Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well? How much of a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being? Matt *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Andros *Sent:* Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM *To:* Openmoko List *Subject:* openmoko on ebay I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can, It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 good luck -- Jeff O|||O ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Loosing your moko
An application only tx/rx'ing periodic and small amounts of data may work better running on top of sms. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:10 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Loosing your moko Mike Baroukh wrote: Very good Idea ! just : if it has been stolen, the sim card will be changed. So may be, each time the sim card is changed, an sms could automatically be send to another number (so you have the new phone number and can continue to communicate with it ...). Or, if gprs works, maybe a post can be made to a server ... Of course, with GPS position, if available! Just a question: can I have a passive GPRS connection: I mean, I call my or newer number asking it to connect to somewhere... -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Loosing your moko
A phone can always receive a call. The number itself is information and can be acted on, without answering the call. I think there's a couple of ways to send a cue in a similar way, maybe. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:14 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Loosing your moko Crane, Matthew ha scritto: An application only tx/rx'ing periodic and small amounts of data may work better running on top of sms. Well, ok... Btw the question remains... Since I haven't a GPRS/SMS/Call flat I'd like the phone to send such informations only if I've requested them remotely... A way to make this possible? SMS of course, then (to get also a ssh connection, for example)? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?
Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well? How much of a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being? Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Andros Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM To: Openmoko List Subject: openmoko on ebay I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can, It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 good luck -- Jeff O|||O ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accellerometer test
I notice you mention only one chip is currently working as isr source. But isn't there two independently configurable pins connected to irqs from that one chip? I didn't dig into the schematic, not sure. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael 'Mickey' Lauer Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:08 AM To: Andy Green Cc: List for Openmoko community discussion; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: accellerometer test It seems to me there is basically one number you can set, and then you can decide if X, Y and/or Z go above or below that number makes an interrupt. It looks like this number is absolute, ie, if you set it to 5 then going above or below 5 x 18mG in + or - will trigger it. So you can almost get what you are looking for, just that there is only one number allowed. Excellent! When do you have time to give that a go? :) Thanks, :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo)
Really, it's intellectual property being sold. Skimping on docs is just trying to sell less for more. It costs money to produce documentation and documentation is regularly the final victim of tight schedules in the design factory. The best docs do seem to be from companies that have intergrated their docs with their development, so that it updates automatically or is tied together some other way. If a company has crappy docs, maybe they have a crappy dev process. I do think minimal docs are just the way things are done, you gotta be able to figure out some things as developers. What can be expected is that it's coverage is feature complete and exactly correct, at a minimum. If there are blank spaces that can be reasonably infered *or experimented with* to figure out, that's ok. An asic company just ain't going to know how there product behaves in all conditions, or the best way to adapt a given application, and it's difficult and time consuming to communicate subtlies to them, you just have to play with things. Otherwise, how else can you know your absolutely correct?? Not with the docs.. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Spraul Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Openmoko strives for openness (smedia glamo) Dear Hervé, here is my perspective: Most chip vendors see their business in selling chips. Documentation is just a necessary evil to them, they are trying to get away with the minimum amount of documentation that will still sell the chip. Unless in very few cases, chip vendors do not see good documentation as a strategic asset that will help sell their chips. Maybe down the road we are lucky and Intel becomes a vendor that sees documentation like this, but I will believe it when I see it. NXP also came around to us in a very nice way. We would like to publish documentation for the Toshiba ASIC in our LCM, very hard with Toshiba (I'm not complaining, it's a big company and we are a minuscule customer). Samsung seems to be going closed, even though they joined the Open Handset Alliance and are a big supporter of Android! Why that? Well, let's think from their perspective: Again - they are selling chips, not books or PDF files. In the case of Samsung, the legal department may look at a given PDF file (say 1000 pages long) and see LOTS OF RISKS! When their lawyers read this document (and they won't understand most of the technical stuff in there), they are very concerned that the document will provide grounds for lawsuits against Samsung later on. If they just sell the chips as-is, those risks are reduced. Plus they will say why do we have to release THIS particular PDF? Why not a much shorter version, say a 2-page high-level overview, which the legal department can carefully check word-by-word before release? And if it has to be this specific PDF, why not release even much more? Samsung certainly has another 100,000 pages documentation for each chip, internally. If you think about it from their perspective documentation is a very random thing. You cannot easily convince them that if they release a 1000-page PDF file about the say 6400 chip, they will sell this many more chips compared to just releasing a 2-page PDF file. So we at Openmoko need to be smart, and accept realities out there: ---1 The current model: We try to convince vendors to open up documentation to the public, ideally allowing us (or even better everyone else) to redistribute the documentation. Like Intel is doing with Creative Commons now. ---2 We can try to 'buy' chips+documentation, make the PDF file part of the purchase. We would then put the PDF file behind a click-through license, which says that the PDF behind the click-through license is just part of the Neo product, and does not guarantee product behavior. The legal effectiveness of such a click-through license is debatable, and we would still need the vendor to like the idea and agree to give us documents under these terms. ---3 We can sign traditional NDAs and alert our vendors that we are legally hiring respected FOSS engineers on a nominal basis (say 1 USD/month), in order to give them access to the documents we have under NDA and allow them to write FOSS software same as our traditional, fully-paid engineers can. Again we could only do this with vendors who understand what we are doing, trust us, and generally agree to the idea. We would not mass-hire thousands of people this way, say having a form on the web where you can 'hire' yourself, then download all docs. It all has to be reasonable and ideas and intentions must not be ridiculed. But I could imagine that this is doable, first with a few selected people, later maybe dozens or even hundreds of people? The bigger we make this the more our own legal
RE: openmoko dashpc
I think what you are talking about is similar to this project http://www.dashpc.com/ Could it be run on the freerunner hardware? No idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of enaut Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:22 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming I mean we could also use the open moko to chiptune the engine of our car or to control the ABS/ESP. or we could make it run the car so that nobody needs to pay attension to the road but is that really nessesary or a good idea? I mean it is not a super computer having a really large scale Cpu. and besides that I curently don't have any GPS I wonder how I did find my way through mess till now. maybe because there are in some rare cases big signs and yeah those are not even digital. The point is there might be some rare cases where we don't absolutely need a digital helper telling us how to handle a situation. We might have reason enough by ourself. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
I think that generally mems devices have proven to work badly for this sort of thing. Because of random drift and other errors. It would need to assume that the car is on a path, the road, and attempt to infer where on the path it is. It wouldn't likely work with just the acell data, and it would take some finely tuned software and then some to get even an aproximation. Of course, it might be ok for the typical case of periodic short term obscured gps signal. Any distance or turns and it's liekly to diverge pretty fast. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:53 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming On 4/1/08, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 01 April 2008, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 4/1/08, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Norway, where I live, some tunnels are very long and even sometimes contain internal enter and exit lanes, so there can be more than one way to go. My Garmin navigator tries to estimate where I am basing on the speed I had when entering the tunnel, so sometimes it notifies me of an internal exit I have to take too late. Correct! We even have round abouts inside tunnels. If you take the wrong exit, you would have to drive for a long time to be able to turn and get back (on the highway). So the phone needs a system that is better than the one from Garmin. -=Flemming=- So you need a car cradle with a CAN interface - IIRC there have been USB-CAN adaptors listed here before. This would give you access to the vehicle speed, and perhaps other useful things - steering angle perhaps? Accelerometer input for finding corners may be useful even if it's not accurate enough for inertial navigation. The interesting part comes in combining the available data to give the location estimate. What do we need the CAN interface for? We already know the speed before we enter the tunnel, and if the neo is in a car holder in a stable position, calibrated with some software, it knows from the accelerometers if we are driving strait ahead or making a turn and also if we are accelerating. With a little bit of mathematics, this can turn out to be very precise. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
I'm going to have a dig through citeseer for some ideas on representing accelerometer data in reasonably practical and time/scale/affine invariant form(s). I'd guess any libs/api would prefer to use fixed point if possible? Don't know what the chip resources are for fp math off hand. I notice this article on gait matching. I guess the best use of such a thing would likely be as the paper suggests, as a biometric authentication. Phone would stop working, without any obvious reason, if the gait didn't match. Certainly, with a stolen phone the first thing that happens to it would be it walks away. http://www.academypublisher.com/jcp/vol01/no07/jcp01075159.pdf Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:45 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: Accelerometer brainstorming Ya, I started down the API path with Michael Shiloh a while back, but we got diverted by other things. Hi matt, Lets talk about your ideas, we need to highlight the new hardware we added. Let me know what you are thinking -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:08 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: Accelerometer brainstorming Yea, there would need to be a decent test and experiment app, with GUI, record data feature, and visualization of data. That would be needed likely before the ideas we've mentioned could be worked out. Need to develop a solid API and event notification system. That sort of thing prob exists for GPS, but should it be new/separate or tagged onto GPS for acellerometer? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:40 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed. I'd like to see an accelerometer graphing application, so you could monitor and graph g force levels. Maybe throw in a zeroing button to set a baseline orientation, then show deviation from that. Maybe not extraordinarily useful, but it would be cool to look at. You could also record the data for later hacking or comparison, like what was my max g-force last time I went skydiving compared to this time? The graphing and etc would be good for studying the feasability of other accelerometer uses, ie is a tap on the case a recognizable event? Speaking of that, I'd like a tap on the case to be configurable as a mute function during ringing. So if you forgot to mute your phone at the symphony and it starts ringing somewhere inside your backpack or jacket, a well placed kick would (probably) mute it. The value here is not having to hunt for the phone and find a button on it. I guess this falls under the larger category of gesture recognition, but this alone would be a real win for me. Another use would be as a 0-60 or quarter mile acceleration timer. Here's a link to a company that makes these: http://www.gtechpro.com/?gclid=CLf7wPmpsJICFRI0awod1CWyQQ I don't know if the accelerometer in the freerunner is accurate enough, but this is a low priced product, I'd think their accelerometers are not a great deal better, if any. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
Thanks. This package's guts might work as a starting point for gesture recognition. Prob some other fos out there sw does similar things. http://www.risujin.org/cellwriter From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Bassett Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:25 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming I think your examples are very possible. Kind of reaching would be something like trying to detect the type of jacket the person is wearing based on how much the fibers stretch during each step...or whether their jacket is open, by measuring the horizontal swinging motion. If the acceleration curve is very crisp, then the phone is prolly in their pant pocket. ;-) but I still say these things are not *impossible*, just require some very intuitive software. -Kyle On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * I mentioned this in another thread, but if the device: - goes from 60km+ to 0 in short order, e.g. high g stop - while traveling horizontally - over a road - an on-screen alert/countdown is not stoped Then it's likely a vehicular accident so auto-call/sms for help with some kind of countdown to disable. Only really possible to do that with a phone + GPS + acell. * Sense when the owner is in a car by keying on the vibration signature and acceleration, possibly with gps data, and automatically bring up the assigned travel/map application. * Use acell data to charecterize person carrying the phone (as many couples out there will share phones, or give to children) and tie into user profile. * Detect when phone has dropped out of ones pocket, short fall by aprupt stop, beep three times loudly. (that's kind of reaching..) Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey Feldgendler Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:22 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Accelerometer brainstorming Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed. * Intuitive mute: put the ringing phone on a flat horizontal surface (table) with its screen facing down to stop the ringing. Intuitive for the user and easy to detect with the accelerometers. Could also be used to hang up the current call. The gesture is very distinguishable and is hard to misinterpret because there aren't many situations when the user would normally put the phone on the table screen down. * Vibration control: when the phone is lying flat, either with its screen up or down, don't vibrate, so as to not produce the annoying loud noise. Ring instead, or do something else. Maybe make a weaker vibration, if the vibrator can do that. * Step counter: use the accelerometers to count steps when walking or running. Some people use dedicated devices for that. * GPS power saving: you can't move if you don't accelerate, so don't do power-expensive location detection until acceleration is detected. Once it's detected, start monitoring the location and keep doing it. Stop monitoring once the position stops changing for a while. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: support win mobile
You need to fill out the form to request an NDA and have your IP lawyer submit it to Microsoft along with a $100,000 consideration fee. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Manjos Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:28 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: support win mobile When do the NDAs get shipped out, so community members can get authorized to work on software for the Freerunner? On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tilman Baumann ha scritto: [snip] Check your calendar. ;) Noticed something? April, first, ... Tilman OMG, i was just waiting for it, it's very beautiful and easy to use, highly customizable,. I was planning to buy a GTA03 instead of a GTA02 i hope that you are serious regarding the GTA03!!! Pietro ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
* I mentioned this in another thread, but if the device: - goes from 60km+ to 0 in short order, e.g. high g stop - while traveling horizontally - over a road - an on-screen alert/countdown is not stoped Then it's likely a vehicular accident so auto-call/sms for help with some kind of countdown to disable. Only really possible to do that with a phone + GPS + acell. * Sense when the owner is in a car by keying on the vibration signature and acceleration, possibly with gps data, and automatically bring up the assigned travel/map application. * Use acell data to charecterize person carrying the phone (as many couples out there will share phones, or give to children) and tie into user profile. * Detect when phone has dropped out of ones pocket, short fall by aprupt stop, beep three times loudly. (that's kind of reaching..) Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey Feldgendler Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:22 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Accelerometer brainstorming Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed. * Intuitive mute: put the ringing phone on a flat horizontal surface (table) with its screen facing down to stop the ringing. Intuitive for the user and easy to detect with the accelerometers. Could also be used to hang up the current call. The gesture is very distinguishable and is hard to misinterpret because there aren't many situations when the user would normally put the phone on the table screen down. * Vibration control: when the phone is lying flat, either with its screen up or down, don't vibrate, so as to not produce the annoying loud noise. Ring instead, or do something else. Maybe make a weaker vibration, if the vibrator can do that. * Step counter: use the accelerometers to count steps when walking or running. Some people use dedicated devices for that. * GPS power saving: you can't move if you don't accelerate, so don't do power-expensive location detection until acceleration is detected. Once it's detected, start monitoring the location and keep doing it. Stop monitoring once the position stops changing for a while. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Accelerometer brainstorming
Yea, there would need to be a decent test and experiment app, with GUI, record data feature, and visualization of data. That would be needed likely before the ideas we've mentioned could be worked out. Need to develop a solid API and event notification system. That sort of thing prob exists for GPS, but should it be new/separate or tagged onto GPS for acellerometer? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Burdette Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:40 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Accelerometer brainstorming Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Just like my recent post about using GPS to enhance the phone, I'll try to explore the synergy opportunities for the accelerometers that Neo has. Once again, some of this might have already been discussed. I'd like to see an accelerometer graphing application, so you could monitor and graph g force levels. Maybe throw in a zeroing button to set a baseline orientation, then show deviation from that. Maybe not extraordinarily useful, but it would be cool to look at. You could also record the data for later hacking or comparison, like what was my max g-force last time I went skydiving compared to this time? The graphing and etc would be good for studying the feasability of other accelerometer uses, ie is a tap on the case a recognizable event? Speaking of that, I'd like a tap on the case to be configurable as a mute function during ringing. So if you forgot to mute your phone at the symphony and it starts ringing somewhere inside your backpack or jacket, a well placed kick would (probably) mute it. The value here is not having to hunt for the phone and find a button on it. I guess this falls under the larger category of gesture recognition, but this alone would be a real win for me. Another use would be as a 0-60 or quarter mile acceleration timer. Here's a link to a company that makes these: http://www.gtechpro.com/?gclid=CLf7wPmpsJICFRI0awod1CWyQQ I don't know if the accelerometer in the freerunner is accurate enough, but this is a low priced product, I'd think their accelerometers are not a great deal better, if any. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GSoC 2008
But as we only can choice one of them for this application, you should be prepared for other applications, too. Yea, whatever API into the accelerometer is made should return some form of condensed data but not necessarily be tied to the idea of gestures. Different applications may want the data at the same time. E.g. background car crash detector (that dials out and knows when it's on the road) working concurrently with gestures for answering phone etc. Maybe the sort of thing where an api would allow an app to register a set of gesture, defined mathematically, and only one system process polls for matching events. Doesn't sound like multiple processes polling the data, or even processing the gestures, would work as nicely. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stefan Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:36 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: GSoC 2008 Hello. On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 19:02, Niluge KiWi wrote: I'm interested in the accelerometers features [1]: Recognising gestures is a really important part of the interface between the user and the phone. Seems this ideas gets the interest of a lot people. Nice. :) With the two accelerometers in the FreeRunner, I think we can recognise lots of gestures, not only simple ones like a click (which is already recognised by the accelerometers used in the FreeRunner). The main difficulty is probably to extract the useful data from the gestures noise : calibration may take time. The goal is to have an almost pre-calibrated library (an idea from the wish-list in the Wiki is to allow the user to record its own gestures, but I think it's not easy to do it simple for the end-user). Letting the user add new gestures is a key feature IMHO. Also letting them combine different gestures to new ones. We should make it easy for people beaing creative with this. That's where innovation can start. :) If we can have a preset of already known gestures shipped with the device, great. I'm also interested in working in the ambient noise detection in second choice. Also interesting. What I never understand completely is what kind of cool stuff we can do with this. I mean detecting the ambient volume level and adjust the ringing, etc is nice, but can we do more with it? Fancy things like detect if we are in a car or plane and react accordingly? regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: video/graphics on GTA02
What about a mod for dvb-h receiver? Via usb? A driver for external usb device would be feasible. http://www.teamcast.com/en/maj-e/c2a2i12376/products/demodulators/dvb-h-portable-demodulator.htm Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:58 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: video/graphics on GTA02 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I had those questions too, I think that when 3D specs of the Glamo chip will be available, it will be possible to make some 3D-accelerated tasks, but I've no idea about the performances of this chip. Anyway I don't think it's so great... Looking at the smedia develpers page [1] there are two examples of 3D games that, I hope, should work on glamo chips. They're not so simple, and... One of these is Neverball itself :P. Anyway I think that the 3D support of the chip has not started yet (does it need some Mesa hack, isn't it?!) so maybe we've to wait some time for it (what about developing this durning GSoC!?). Bye [1] http://www.smediatech.com/developer.htm -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: rough seas
Hi, You should all be commended for your professionalism in taking the time to ensure you can commit to public announcements. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Moss-Pultz Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:45 AM To: Tomasz Zielinski Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: rough seas On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 09:15 +0200, Tomasz Zielinski wrote: 2007/6/20, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In less than a week, we will update you about what's going on at FIC/ OpenMoko, the status of GTA01/02, and our plans for selling these neos. One week has passed silently... Almost done with the announcement...I've still got a day left (Taiwan time) ;-) The delay is not writing the announcement, but finalizing things internally so we can publicly commit. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: New CPU
For a viable commercial product I would expect the CPU to be first of all the cheapest one that meets the minimal horsepower requirements, and obviously other considerations, such as power consumption. Would you prefer to run Microsoft office for 30s or have your battery last for a week? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Varga-Háli Dániel Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:13 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: New CPU Hi! I don't know if there were any discussion about this. Today I was looking at the processor and I saw (sadly) that it's got only 200-266MHz. Do you think it is going to enough? I get the info from: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Processor I am guessing that the core team is planning to put a faster CPU in. Do you think, that this CPU would be better? http://www.samsung.com/products/semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/S3C2443/S3C2443.htm What CPU are they planning to use? Dan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GPS+sms apps
I guess SMS is generally more accessable and tends to be a lot cheaper, often free, in Toronto and most of Canada. Phones could transmit position continuously to a central server, or some centralized mechanisim, and I'm thinking it would be much easier for a centralized server program to notify phones reliably with SMS, rather then depend on a data connection. Basically by using SMS it would be a more accesable and reliable application that could be run continously by the participants. Tie it into a social networking site maybe too. Matt -Original Message- From: Dean Collins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:16 PM To: Crane, Matthew; OpenMoko Subject: RE: GPS+sms apps Why would you need SMS - if you are running a data plan already to track cell tower and relative position to other Neo users then you may as well make it a self contained application. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Monday, 28 May 2007 4:57 PM To: OpenMoko Subject: GPS+sms apps Is there any existing application which combine sms messaging and GPS? It would be pretty cool to get automated alerts whenever a particular person is nearby, through a central machine (phone, desktop). Or to use some sort of automated homing application, where two people are able to lock to each other and the phone guides them, notifying the other device when the route or position has changed. Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: GPS+sms apps
Ok, yea, they aren't often free, but they are often free to send even with the basic plans. In the case of an application where it's sending to a central server and notifications go out much more rarely, then free to send is preferable. I think the basic plans often charge 10-15c. For reference, Canadian $ getting closet to parity with USD lately. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikko J Rauhala Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:56 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: GPS+sms apps On ti, 2007-05-29 at 09:15 -0400, Crane, Matthew wrote: I guess SMS is generally more accessable and tends to be a lot cheaper, often free, in Toronto and most of Canada. I didn't know SMS are often free; here they cost a bundle, though a bit less if you take a bulk deal in your monthly fees. OTOH, here we have quite affordable no-limit GPRS(/EDGE/UMTS). Clearly it would be good for a locator service to be able to communicate via both methods, depending on what kind of a mobile plan the user has. As for availability, for a GPRS-preferred user of such a service you could pretty much assume that they are connected whenever the phone is on and has coverage, so not that different from SMS... -- Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Helsinki ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: information efficient text enty using dasher
Dasher is very neat, seems the method would be well suited to a wheel button. I wonder if theres a method of entering text that would be well suited to messaging but still handsfree. Voice recognition is the only thing I could think of. Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GPS+sms apps
Is there any existing application which combine sms messaging and GPS? It would be pretty cool to get automated alerts whenever a particular person is nearby, through a central machine (phone, desktop). Or to use some sort of automated homing application, where two people are able to lock to each other and the phone guides them, notifying the other device when the route or position has changed. Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Pretty UI for OpenMoko
Hi, You're saying to add transition effects to a window, which probably would not take up a whole QVGA display, at a reasonable rate of 15/frames second for a phone, will require 70mb/s of memory bandwidth? How did you calculate that? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 8:58 AM To: Denis Parchenko Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Pretty UI for OpenMoko Hi! Are there ideas of creating TWUIK-like motion/transition engine for OpenMoko? This feature would be great for consumer product. For example compare UIs of Nokia 6230 and SonyEricsson K750... There is no blitter on the neo1973, so moving or transforming full-screen windows is quite expensive in software. For example, 72 megabytes/second or so memory bandwidth can be needed for a full-screen move, which will be very close to what the hardware can do. Of course, maxing out the CPU for periods won't help battery life enormously. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Iphone eat your heart out.
Will the iPhone support the bluetooth harddrives? I'm guessing they'll work nicely with a linux phone with bluetooth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mathew davis Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:16 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Iphone eat your heart out. Now the neo can hold as much memory as the upcoming Iphone but better. Samsung just announced that it has developed an 8 Gigabyte microSD memory card. That means that the $350 neo equiped with a 8GB microSD card will have the same storage capacity as the 600 + 2 year contract Iphone. Just would like to say keep up the good work to every one on the team. I know you have been working your buts off and I for one sincerly appreciate it. With all the talk of not being able to wait for the I phone, I would like to say that I am patiently waiting through the thick and thin for the phone. I am excited about the progress made and am also glad to hear any update weither it be good or bad, I am loyal to the end. http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=200 70517_346824 Thanks, Matt ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accelerometer in neo?
It would mean there would be much more interactive options for games running on the phone though. Like pinball, or driving games. A golf game where you swing the phone maybe? Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bradley Hook Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:53 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: accelerometer in neo? Does this mean we can solder one of these in and turn our moko into an enhanced Wii remote? :P ~Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was ~$14. Dirt cheap for what it does. If what people say about wasted space inside the neo is true then I'm hoping to cram one in there when I get my phone. Maybe some mems rate sensors too. Now that's _my_ kind of augmented GPS! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Few comments after reading Wiki
There are many ways to make it 99.999% secure. Who cares if you can't technically secure it 100%. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raphaël Jacquot Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:23 PM To: Ian Stirling Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Few comments after reading Wiki there's no such thing as a secure system. You can have a somewhat secure thing, that will be able to resist to X but the 100% secure thing doesn't exist. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accelerometer in neo?
Hi, Wouldn't expansion via existing usb or BT be preferable? If a few types of hardware that's accessable via these ports has been developed with some sort of driver and application then further development will have a foundation to work off of and the usefullness will be clear for incorporation into later versions of the phone. E.g, rather then embed the accelerometer in this version of the phone, use the ezusb chip to develop the application. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Pfeiffer Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:50 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: accelerometer in neo? Since SPI is available for IO (near as I can tell), there's something to be said for an expansion back that would have room for a bunch of optional peripherals in some sort of standard form facter... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: accelerometer in neo?
So what would one do with a cell phone with an embedded gps assisted inertial guidance system? Tape a rocket motor to the back for a new way to destroy the iPhone? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 1:20 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: accelerometer in neo? ST makes a 3 axis mems accelerometers that speak SPI [and I2C]. VTI has I2C only and SPI ones. I have the SPI/I2C one [LIS3LV02DL] made by ST but I don't have it working yet. I'm still in awe of how small it is -- much smaller than a tic-tac candy. http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=197587Si te=USCat=35783228 http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12094/lis3lv02dl.pdf It was ~$14. Dirt cheap for what it does. If what people say about wasted space inside the neo is true then I'm hoping to cram one in there when I get my phone. Maybe some mems rate sensors too. Now that's _my_ kind of augmented GPS! -erik I'm not sure about that. I guess it depends on the specifics of the application, but there is no 3-axis spi version of the alg dev mems chips afaik. The SPI chips are much more expensive (obviously there are costs wrt SPI alternatives) and targeted. =20 http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,ADXL330,00.html http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,764%255F801%255F0%255F%255F0%255F ,00.html Matt -Original Message- From: Ian Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:30 PM To: Crane, Matthew Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: accelerometer in neo? Crane, Matthew wrote: Hi,=20 =20 Wouldn't expansion via existing usb or BT be preferable? If a few types of hardware that's accessable via these ports has been developed with some sort of driver and application then further development will have a foundation to work off of and the usefullness will be clear for incorporation into later versions of the phone. =20 E.g, rather then embed the accelerometer in this version of the phone, use the ezusb chip to develop the application. =20 No. There are reportedly solderable to SPI pins inside the chip. You can directly connect some accelerometer chips to these with=20 absolutely no circuitry. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
