Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Don't give up yet - let's try to gather some more information. If your card is more than a few months old it would be very interesting to try a new card on the very same contract. Would the provider be willing to exchange your card for a new one? Michael Arne Zachlod wrote: I have testes the non-3G e-plus SIM card form my girlfirend and it works. i think the problem is with the 3G sim cards only, not with the normal 2,5G Standartd-cards. or with some of the 3G-cards. really, i have no idea. in germany it is now around 9:00 AM so i will go to a phone-shop now and ask there. i would have no problem with changing the network, but the problem is that i would have to wait for a half year until my actually contract get off (or what is the english word for that?) and thats absoulutely too long, because i don't want to change my telephone number. so the only option is finding the bug? or getting a working SIM Card. Regards, Arne Michael Kluge schrieb: Most probably. I am waiting for one too and will use it with a SIM card from SIMYO. It's a prepaid card, they charge for 1MB data 24 Cent and use the e-plus network. I guess a few people with a freerunner have such a card as most other offers for data is more expensive. Michael Am Donnerstag, 3. Juli 2008 08:04:08 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Do we have any other Freerunners who are e-plus customers in Germany? Need to get some information here. Michael Arne Zachlod wrote: Hi Michael, my network provider is e-plus and i'm located in germany. Arne Michael Shiloh schrieb: Hi Arne, Who is your network provider? Where are you located? Michael? Arne Zachlod wrote: Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only the problem that he doesn't find a network). but with other SIM Cards form same provider there is no problem. and other, non-3G-phones hasn't problem with this card, too. i have no idea where i can find any informations. the gsm.log file doesn't exist and my gsm-firmware-version is moko8. So, my question is: does anybody else has a problem with 3G Sim card? Thank you, Arne ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
A new card worked for me at one point. It's not a solution, but rather, a test. It is an indication that some firmware somewhere changed, and that the Freerunner doesn't handle it correctly. I look forward to hearing from you the result of this test. Sincerely, Michael Arne Zachlod wrote: i don't think the card is the problem, but the freerunner. The card works in all phones (3G and non3G) i have tried, excluding the FR, so i think there HAVE to be a bug or something else, but no idea how to find out what could be wrong. I asked my provider for a new card now and he said he will send me one. Now i have to wait, but im not sure that this will help me. bye, Arne Michael Shiloh schrieb: Don't give up yet - let's try to gather some more information. If your card is more than a few months old it would be very interesting to try a new card on the very same contract. Would the provider be willing to exchange your card for a new one? Michael Arne Zachlod wrote: I have testes the non-3G e-plus SIM card form my girlfirend and it works. i think the problem is with the 3G sim cards only, not with the normal 2,5G Standartd-cards. or with some of the 3G-cards. really, i have no idea. in germany it is now around 9:00 AM so i will go to a phone-shop now and ask there. i would have no problem with changing the network, but the problem is that i would have to wait for a half year until my actually contract get off (or what is the english word for that?) and thats absoulutely too long, because i don't want to change my telephone number. so the only option is finding the bug? or getting a working SIM Card. Regards, Arne Michael Kluge schrieb: Most probably. I am waiting for one too and will use it with a SIM card from SIMYO. It's a prepaid card, they charge for 1MB data 24 Cent and use the e-plus network. I guess a few people with a freerunner have such a card as most other offers for data is more expensive. Michael Am Donnerstag, 3. Juli 2008 08:04:08 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Do we have any other Freerunners who are e-plus customers in Germany? Need to get some information here. Michael Arne Zachlod wrote: Hi Michael, my network provider is e-plus and i'm located in germany. Arne Michael Shiloh schrieb: Hi Arne, Who is your network provider? Where are you located? Michael? Arne Zachlod wrote: Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only the problem that he doesn't find a network). but with other SIM Cards form same provider there is no problem. and other, non-3G-phones hasn't problem with this card, too. i have no idea where i can find any informations. the gsm.log file doesn't exist and my gsm-firmware-version is moko8. So, my question is: does anybody else has a problem with 3G Sim card? Thank you, Arne ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Anyone attending Foo Camp?
I'm setting up an Openmoko hack-a-thon and would love to know if anyone from this list will be there. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Need screenshots of ASU, FSO
Can someone point me at any screenshots of ASU and FSO? Thanks, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freerunner unable to work with 3G SIMCards?
Hi Arne, Who is your network provider? Where are you located? Michael? Arne Zachlod wrote: Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only the problem that he doesn't find a network). but with other SIM Cards form same provider there is no problem. and other, non-3G-phones hasn't problem with this card, too. i have no idea where i can find any informations. the gsm.log file doesn't exist and my gsm-firmware-version is moko8. So, my question is: does anybody else has a problem with 3G Sim card? Thank you, Arne ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Which image
Jay Vaughan wrote: What would be the best image to use currently. Is the FSO an option? Any advice? In my opinion, try them all and find one you like. There really needs to be a *much* better degree of pimp'atude coming from OpenMoko on the images to run This is my responsibility and I'm well aware that it's needed, and has been needed, for a very long time. Unfortunately time has not permitted me to attend to this yet. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Inter-Freerunner Connectivity
Jay Vaughan wrote: And just for fun... Would there be any practical purpose for communicating through the headphone/mic jack? No. AUDIO Routing! Yes! There are practical purposes: multiple freerunners being used to create a symphony of soft-synths, with an audio routing network between them to deal with mixing. ;) +1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convert Freerunner CAD Files - IGES or STEP?
steve wrote: ask michael or will -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Claus Christmann Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:42 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Convert Freerunner CAD Files - IGES or STEP? Please see below: Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/6/21 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have access to Pro/E and am willing to convert the Wildfire 3 files into something else. What do you prefer? IGES (Wireframe or Solid?), or STEP (Wireframe or Solid?)? All of the above? If its just a matter of selecting an export format. i'll second that - the more the better OK, I finally found a batch processing way to convert the files to STEP and IGES. When zipped, the archives still are kinda large (step.zip ~35MB, step.tar.gz ~30MB, iges.zip ~100mb, iges.tar.gz ~85MB)... So the question arises: where shall I put them? How would I get them onto downloads.openmoko.org? Thanks for catching this, Steve. I missed this message. We'll host them on http://downloads.openmoko.org/CAD/. As you can see, we already have IGES and STEP for Neo 1973, so it's only Freerunner that needs converting. I'll need to copy the files to downloads. Can you place them somewhere from which I can copy? If not, I'll see about finding a place to which we can give you write access. As an aside, I would love to convert the CAD files to .dxf format. I know this loses some information but it would be very useful. Can you do this? Regards, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea
Great idea +1 Fabian Off wrote: Hey, maybe then we should create something like a plugin (or extension) for openstreetmaps, so we can append many kinds of meta-data (such as radar positions, gsm coverage, whatsoever) to existing maps... kinda points of interest (?) :) I think this would address a lot of people... all who are using osm by now... Fabian Off - Ursprüngliche Mail Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 25. Juni 2008, 18:34:50 Uhr Betreff: Re: data collection for GSM coverage mape is COOL idea Le mercredi 25 juin 2008 à 17:42, vous avez écrit : I like thw GSM coverage map idea, a LOT! -- ron k jeffries +1 I'like all ideas about statistics gatherage (maps, radas, ...) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Quick Start User Guide
Hey! This is great. Thanks. I'll check this out. Note that the quickstart guide is due for a serious update. Michael Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, I have prepared docbook format documentation for http://quickstart.openmoko.org/. The .xml and generated .html is available from: svn checkout svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/qsug Please review it, and let me know of any changes. Will need to add pictures, and fill-in the remaining text. Thanks! SK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Openmoko at Irish Open Source Technology Conference
Sorry for the late notice, but I thought I should let you know that I'll be talking about Openmoko today at the Irish Open Source Technology Conference in Dublin: http://iotc.firstport.ie/lecture/36/ (Since I was traveling and didn't get the description to the conference organizers in time, thanks to Brian for studying our mailing lists and web sites and pulling together the fine description you see!) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Password safe
Uncle Kridley wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: The only two things I really need the Blackberry for (apart from stable calling :-)) are the password safe (which I have written a replacement for, and others exist)... I'm totally dependent on gnukeyring on my Treo, so this is good news. I'd been hoping that somebody with some GUI coding experience would build one on Openmoko, since I've never written a (non-web) GUI program. Are you going to release your password safe? What are the others you speak of? I thought that perhaps gnome-keyring could be ported to Openmoko... I use pwsafe, which is a text-only program. I imagine it would be easy to throw a GTK (or QT) wrapper around it and cross-complile for Neo. M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Converting Blackberry contacts into QTopia
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: I won't say it was easy or pretty, but I did it. Cool... I want do it also with my Motorola phone importing contacts, SMSs and events from the binary seem files... Maybe I could use some of your advices! Marco, and others: I'm going to create an entry on my blog for those of you switching from X to Openmoko. Please add your experiences. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: hmmm you really have a talent to ask interesting questions I'll take that as a compliment, although most people find it irritating :-) In this case it's actually my job :-) dunno... yet I understand. It's not a trivial question. I know that you won't claim something unless you have convinced yourself of the truth. I look forward to your analysis and consideration. /j ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Do 29. Mai 2008 schrieb Michael Shiloh: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael Not if you don't find a 3 word slogan to sell this feature to your granny. SCNR, still got a no Joerg! trauma ;-) I believe there is a legal expression, something like the grandfather clause. Has Steve now invented a similar marketing expression, the granny test? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Valid idea. Thanks for mentioning this. Michael David Samblas Martinez wrote: If anyone is really interested in make this phone an AP to whatever use and if a external power is an option, why not use a USB 1.1 wireless adapter able to do that even it only do it in b instead of g if the usb 1.1 doen't allow the 54 Mb/s.it can be very probable that can even use monitor mode with that dongle ;) even without external power it can be doable for a shorts periods of time (well battery will decide the timeframe) --- El *jue, 29/5/08, Michael Shiloh /[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* escribió: De: Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: Neo as cellular modem? Para: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Fecha: jueves, 29 mayo, 2008 6:00 Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:10 +0200, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're helpless unless Atheros decided to implement Master mode in their closed firmware. Unfortunately the power advantages of having the bulk of the ieee80211 actions managed in the firmware are pretty compelling so I don't know how we get out of that bind. The very knowledge that we can't do something that the hardware would technically be capable of is annoying, Strongly agree. In some cases this was a result of the agreement we were able to reach with the chip manufacturer in order to open source the driver. We don't view this as a perfect solution, but rather a good start. Hopefully in the future the success of Openmoko will encourage chip manufacturers to become more open. but I don't really see why we would need to implement a true AP in the phone. Strongly disagree. Innovation is stifled whenever choices are limited simply because we can't think of why someone would want to make that choice. We should always strive to make such choices available. For any reasonable use case I can think of, ad-hoc mode should be enough. The only usability advantage of being an AP would be that it can send beacon packets that allow other devices to detect an available network, but sending beacon would be a battery drain anyway. Assuming the use case made sense, the Freerunner could be powered externally. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=52431/*http://es.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo as cellular modem?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Wed, 28 May 2008 02:15:16 +0200, Matt Mets [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might also be cool to have the Freerunner act as a wireless router! Instant (slow) internet anywhere... In ad-hoc network mode only. AFAIK the WiFi chip used in the Freerunner doesn't support AP mode. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the WiFi chip in fact _can_ do AP mode, but that mode is not allowed in the open source driver. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Fwd: u-blox binary protocol boilerplate code]
Since this question might be of general interest, I've taken the liberty of answering it on the list. Joseph asked about u-blox code, and Andy pointed us to the DM2 test code: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=gta02-production-testing.git;a=blob;f=gta02-dm2/src/dm2.c;h=caddb49b2a7abca366e83dd36b87aa9ce857d416;hb=HEAD#l517 - -Andy Original Message Subject: u-blox binary protocol boilerplate code Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:52:14 +0100 (BST) From: Joseph Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Michael I'd like to request if there's any boilerplate code available to deal with the binary protocol as provided by the FreeRunner's u-blox chip? This would be a great help to us. Many thanks, Joseph -- Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open Document Format). If you have difficulty opening them, please visit http://iso26300.info for more information. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
Lorn Potter wrote: On Thursday 22 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time Actually, Trolltech had done most of the 'porting' to X11 work already. Hi Lorn, Thanks for the clarification upon my clarification. I will edit my blog to correctly credit this. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
clarification of Qtopia Vs. GTK
I have had some further discussions with headquarters, and have edited my blog to try to explain the new software a little better. The important facts are that the new software: * Switches the Window Manager from Matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) * Ported Qtopia to Xorg, so it is possible to run Qtopia, GTK, ELF, and Python applications all at the same time * Replaced the GTK-based basic phone suite (dialer, contacts, SMS) with ones based on Qtopia I hope this better explains the situation. Regards, Michael (Full posting at http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update/) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
ASU: Qtopia PIM info stored in sqlite database
Lorn Potter wrote: Qtopia contacts are stored in the sqlite database. Thanks for the info Lorn. Can you tell where the sqlite database is stored or is that not Qtopia determined? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU: Qtopia PIM info stored in sqlite database
Thanks Lorn Lorn Potter wrote: On Thursday 22 May 2008 08:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qtopia contacts are stored in the sqlite database. Thanks for the info Lorn. Can you tell where the sqlite database is stored or is that not Qtopia determined? The users database is /home/user/Applications/Qtopia/qtopia_db.sqlite ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko?
Marc Bantle wrote: ... I am aware that communicating decisions still is a challenging task and can easily leave some parties disaffected, once an organization has reached a certain size. So, no flame here. ... Marc, Very well put. I think this is the best way to read these events. No intentional hiding of facts, no secret decisions. Just simply how can we make this work in the least amount of time with the greatest chance of success. Communication is always a difficulty in any organization, and we are very spread out geographically. Additionally, we have an extremely strong policy of conducting as much of our communication as possible on the public lists. As a result you will sometimes learn of things at the same time that we Openmoko employees do. This is a feature of our openness policy, and not a bug in our communication policy. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions
Ian Darwin wrote: I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha snapshot of the ASU software. For those who have been off-list for a while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course). The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the numbers. Beware. The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional QTopia format) or a slider style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash required). The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time, battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and the Enlightenment menu. Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone. I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to QTopia. However, I recognize the need to get something finished in a reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way; in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task, and something that QTopia has been honing for several years. The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional cell phone feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts Overview page here: http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png). So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the experience. Short form: functionally, it works. Among other things, the phone wakes up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of course), and GSM voice works after a resume. There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under time deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was presenting OM at! Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to have fall through the cracks. 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, but by the time the dialer appears on screen, several rings have gone by, and, by the time you press Answer and get it recognized, the screen hasn't responded, the Answer button changes to Hangup, so if you double-clicked it, you can easily hang up on your caller without intending to. 2) The ASU software features a qwerty-keyboard. It is switchable between alphabetics and numerics; unfortunately the gesture needed to do this (a triangle drawn counter-clockwise from lower left) is a bit hard to get right; hopefully there will be a button to switch this. As well, the current version of ASU uses QTopia's input manager, offering what looks like a predictive style but is actually doing a dictionary lookup; I find this very distracting compared to a plain do-what-I-type keyboard, and would welcome an easy way to turn this off (I thought Lorne Potter posted this once, but I couldn't find it). 3) It's easy to accidentally start an application (thus slowing down what you're trying to really do) while scrolling the home screen in icon grid mode. 4) The Preferences that are in the top slide-down panel's Wrench icon should presumably be merged with the Preferences App. 5) The shutdown dialog does not have a cancel or Back button. And, it often doesn't actually shutdown. All for now. Again, please remember that this is very early access. And don't let my nit-picking distract you from the fact that it's looking good for something that was merged only a few weeks ago! Ian Darwin Wonderful feedback, Ian. Thanks very much. And thanks for presenting OM at the show. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Good idea, but not top priority for a little while. M Brandon Kruse wrote: Hey michael. I think this is a great idea for you and other openmoko employees, but why not just run your own wordpress? Its so simple. Blogs.openmoko.com or something. Either way, the idea of internal people blogging is great :) -- Brandon Kruse On May 19, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started
Yeah - I was thinking of that after I saw the questions regarding running OSA on Qemu. I'll post this as soon as I find out how to do this :-) Michael George Brooke wrote: Hi, It would be great if you could post instructions for emulating the new software solar.george On Mon, 19 May 2008 14:54:56 -0700 Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just posted about the software update that has been discussed here today, so I figured I'd take this opportunity to tell you all about my blog: gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com I welcome comments but please be gentle. I'm new to blogging. Seriously, feedback and suggestions are welcomed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner on a Mac ...
Christ van Willegen wrote: On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Rod Whitby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was that the dfu-util program used to flash the Openmoko device is a very portable utility, and can be compiled on just about any reasonable OS, including OS-X. In fact, it's already been done: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:SNMoore Great, I hadn't seen this! Perhaps Michael should add it to his 'Howto start using the Neo'? I was just thinking that as I read the comment. Yes, absolutely. Thanks all, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Searching OpenMoko Archives
Very nice. Can you pop this onto the wiki? Thanks, Michael Andrew Bruno wrote: Thought this might be of some interest to the community. I contacted the guys over at MarkMail, a search engine for mailing list archives and they kindly loaded the OpenMoko lists. They have a slick web interface for browsing threads and some very nice advanced search functionality. Here's the link: http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/ Here's a nice historical view of the community updates: http://tinyurl.com/5da3mj They have all the OpenMoko lists loaded and I've found it extremely useful for searching through the archives. Also, just want to say keep up the great work.. I can't wait to get my hands on a Freerunner. Cheers, --Andrew ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: IAX2/Asterisk + Openmoko FreeRunner
Hi Brandon, Thanks for the update. This might be the excuse I'm looking for to set up Asterisk at home. Although I tested your phone before I sent it to you. Unless I made a mistake, it worked then. What concerns me is that I do have one other phone that doesn't seem to take sound in via the microphone. Please keep us informed of what you find there, so we can make sure it's not a manufacturing problem. Michael Brandon Kruse wrote: Hey Guys, Just want to keep the community updated. I was one of the few developers who have received a freerunner (gta02) in the mail a couple days back. Since then I have been updating all my latest packages (http://bkruse.com, and the mokoiax project page), will check in my code tonight. The goal of this project is to seamlessly tie into the openmoko dialer application as a 'gateway', so that you could chose to dial out over GSM or dial out over IAX2 (wifi, possibly GPRS). I currently just passed a test call, and I am having some issues getting the mic to work properly, but that should not keep me held back for long. If you would like to help in the project, just send me an email. I would love some feedback/suggestions on the project. You are the end user / community / developers, let me know what YOU would like to see! -Brandon Kruse ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Seat in embedded Linux training session offered to a contributor
Wow. That's very generous. I should expect someone will be able to take advantage of this. I know I've seen a couple of community members with addresses in Nice. Thanks for your support of Openmoko! Michael Michael Opdenacker wrote: Hello, This could be useful for contributors to the OpenMoko project, especially for people who wish to learn more about the kernel and about embedded specific topics... At Free Electrons, we decided to offer a free seat in our upcoming embedded Linux training session (June 23-27, French Riviera, close to Nice) to a deserving community member. Full details on http://free-electrons.com/community/training/free-seats The session will be in English. Going to Nice can be pretty cheap, as there are lots of low cost airlines offering direct flights to Nice. The hotel and breakfast would cost approximately 70 EUR per day, and dinner shouldn't exceed 30 EUR. If you win, there's no problem to do it during your work time (if your boss agrees, of course). We could still fill up training related paperwork if needed (sign-in sheets, diploma, evaluation form summary, etc.). Hope some of you will be interested... Cheers, Michael. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The most baffling part of the GTA02 Quickstart page...
Not to spam the list, but to add to the quickstart web page. It's perfect Ian. Your camera is much better than mine at closeups. Thanks Ian, Michael Ian Darwin wrote: Micheal have your daughter do a video for the page. ... is the MicroSD card. Having had my mitts on a pre-release GTA02 device for a bit and read this page (http://quickstart.openmoko.org/) and looked at the device (with great fear of damaging it), it took me a long time to successfully insert the MicroSD card. I got the SIM in ok, but that's much bigger and to my eyes much more scrutable. I've sent a photo to Michael, but it's kinda big to spam the list with since most don't have GTA02's yet, but for now. read section 4.5 as: The Micro-SD card holder is held in place by a latching finger on either side. It is easiest to open the Micro-SD card holder by releasing these fingers one at a time rather than by lifting from the middle, as lifting from the middle tends to increase the latching pressure. Use a small screwdriver or knife to *carefully* lift first one side then the other; the fingers are along the edge of the MicroSD slot nearest the center of the device. Be careful not to damage the contacts underneath here; the end where you're working doesn't contact the Micro-SD card contacts, but you don't want to short them out. Cheers Ian Darwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Meta Toolchain Release (2008 May)
Julian wrote: Guillaume Chereau : It worked on my computer, but I check again now and you are right : it uses the host header files. It just appends to work on my computer because I have all the header files in my host computer already (for example in your case I think you need to install the package libglib2.0-dev) Maybe there is a problem with the toolchain pkg-config ? - Gui Thank you friends, Right, We also found the problem after release. We should put pkg-config into meta-toolchain to solve it. John Lee is working this. :-) Cheers, -Julian Great work Julian. I tested your script earlier and it worked fine for me, but I understand now why. I haven't yet changed my quickstart web page to your new recipe. I'll refer to this on the quickstart web page as soon as the changes are made. and confirmed. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Quickstart web page my first manual readed before product release
David Samblas Martinez wrote: Since I was a young wannabe I like to read manuals, I allways remember my first full specification readding at 13 years reading the full Epson ms-dos manuals (full command list especification included) 1 night before I can even start my first computer (an 8086) because (damn it!) my family decided to go to soup that evening with my uncles... Now I am a old an experienced wannabe and I cannot remember any other tech doc than make me feel so near again this first geek experience (near to drop a tear here) Here again reading about manage something desired but not even (but so near ) in you hands. Michael in the chapter 7 is written [...] Note that updating the root file system will erase any data you have added, such as contacts or calendar information. [...] some tar -cvzf backupneopimdata.tar.gz watever/the/pims/apps/save/the/information will be apreciated here to be able to restore this info after an update. Some more sophisticated backup solutions can be added lately as long as their are implemented and will be ok to add a link to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Backup directly when this part has been developed. Hey David, That's a great idea. Thanks! I'll add it. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle
Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off. You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would encourage my daughter to clean up her room before going to bed?), and insert it correctly in the clock in order to shut the alarm off. I laugh every time I think of this thing. Innovative, practical, and fun. Michael Alexander Frøyseth wrote: I have to go to the other side of the room to turn it off It helps a bit Mo Abrahams skrev: Sounds pretty cool, and I hope someone does it for the fun of trying it, but in the mean time do what I do... put your alarm on the opposite side of the bedroom so that you have to get up to turn it off anyway, and if you use your phone as your alarm, change the alarm tone every now and then, I get used to them and start incorporating them into my dreams. On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 14:49 +0200, Alexander Frøyseth wrote: Hello again I just have an idea for an nice addon or software (call it what you want) to the alarmclock Okey, let me tell a little story from real life. Every day when I go to school, I have to wake up, and now I have 2 alarmclocks, but still I manage to oversleep. Soo what I was thinking about was that I have to solve a puzzle to turn the alarmclock off, and not just push a button. One possibility is a 4 bits jigsaw puzzle like this: http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProd∏_id=21 http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProd∏_id=21 another, and perhaps an more easy to make is that the screen shows fours digits that you have to click in right order to turn it off. Perhaps like an antibot test on websites. I am more as an web programmer, so I isent so good to program software. NOTE: You have to have the choice to turn this on and off when you sets the clock Hope that someone think this is a good idea, and tries to program one. Alexander Frøyseth ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Michael Shiloh writes: Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off. You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would encourage my daughter to clean up her room before going to bed?), and insert it correctly in the clock in order to shut the alarm off. I laugh every time I think of this thing. Innovative, practical, and fun. Fun is not a concept that I'm able to consolidate with alarm clock... Oh lighten up. Imagine this: You've been up until 2am packing, you had to wake up at 5:45 to get an early morning flight, the airport shuttle is outside honking its horn, the baby is crying, and the dog just chewed up little plastic disc from the alarm clock. What's not fun about that? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle
+1 Very clever. This is the kind of innovation I look forward to from this group. It should be possible to distinguish between intentional shaking and being thrown across the room, which would not reset the snooze but would keep on ringing. Arne Kristian Jansen wrote: Or you could use the accelerometer to windup the clock/snooze. Just shake it two times to snooze for 1 min more or something like it. And after each snooze you have to shake more and more to get the same snoozetime, i.e. for the second snooze you'd have to shake say four times to add one minute. - Arne Kristian 2008/5/13 Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have a similar problem, but came up with a slightly different approach. I tend to snooze too much, so mine focuses on the snooze button. You'd start with 1 big snooze button that snoozes for x minutes. After x minutes, alarm sounds again, but there are now two or three buttons. Maybe you have to hit them in a particular order. Maybe pick 2 that are the right color. Snoozes for another x minutes. Next, has a screen with 9 buttons (big enough to use with fingers). The buttons flash (maybe play a sound) in a pattern. You have to repeat the pattern to snooze again. Etc Have snooze time configurable. User enters comma-separated list. Last number in list is repeated. Ie 10,9,5 What do you think? -Steven On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again I just have an idea for an nice addon or software (call it what you want) to the alarmclock Okey, let me tell a little story from real life. Every day when I go to school, I have to wake up, and now I have 2 alarmclocks, but still I manage to oversleep. Soo what I was thinking about was that I have to solve a puzzle to turn the alarmclock off, and not just push a button. One possibility is a 4 bits jigsaw puzzle like this: http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProdprod_id=21 http://www.bimbambanana.com/index.php?p=Puzzle-alarm-clock-cool-gadgetsside=visProdprod_id=21 another, and perhaps an more easy to make is that the screen shows fours digits that you have to click in right order to turn it off. Perhaps like an antibot test on websites. I am more as an web programmer, so I isent so good to program software. NOTE: You have to have the choice to turn this on and off when you sets the clock Hope that someone think this is a good idea, and tries to program one. Alexander Frøyseth ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo to Physical Devices (was: Re: Alarmclock puzzle)
You'll have to create your own plastic disc launcher. Seriously, I want to see some Neo to physical devices interfaces. They needn't be practical. For instance, you can mock up the flying disc alarm clock with some toys and a USB interface gadget, e.g.: 1. Find a toy that launches something and is controlled electrically, e.g. Nerf ball shooter that has an electric trigger. 2. Add sensor to the toy so you can tell when the projectile is in place or not, e.g. IR proximity sensor. 3. Connect to Neo USB port an interfacing device e.g. Arduino. 4. Digital output from Arduino activates trigger on Nerf ball gun 5. Analog input from Arduino reads IR proximity sensor 6. Alarm clock application on Neo controls everything. When alarm time is reached, turn on alarm and fire Nerf ball. Keep sounding alarm until IR proximity sensor detects the Nerf ball back in place. I'll award 5 t-shirts for this! Mo Abrahams wrote: So, will there be one of these plastic disc slots in the freerunner? or do we have to wait till the next gen of openmoko? =P On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 08:55 -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote: Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Michael Shiloh writes: Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off. You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would encourage my daughter to clean up her room before going to bed?), and insert it correctly in the clock in order to shut the alarm off. I laugh every time I think of this thing. Innovative, practical, and fun. Fun is not a concept that I'm able to consolidate with alarm clock... Oh lighten up. Imagine this: You've been up until 2am packing, you had to wake up at 5:45 to get an early morning flight, the airport shuttle is outside honking its horn, the baby is crying, and the dog just chewed up little plastic disc from the alarm clock. What's not fun about that? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle (Slightly OT)
Years ago I imagined such a pill with a known delay (e.g. the time it would take for the outer casing to dissolve). Pills would be available with different delays (different thickness of casing). Thus, you would take a caffeine tablet with say an 8 hour delay and go to sleep. 8 hours later you would awake feeling alert and refreshed, and as if you'd already had your morning coffee. Life would be perfect. Kim Alvefur wrote: I think that the ultimate thing to get one up in the morning would be having a r/c drug-dispenser under/on your skin that would dump shitloads of caffeine into your bloodstream. I think there exists a type of patch that dispenses insulin, for people with diabetes. That with like a RFID-trigger or programmable timer would be the ultimate. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Michael Shiloh writes: Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Michael Shiloh writes: Way off-topic, but the best alarm clock I've ever seen is one that shoots a little flying disc out of the top when the alarm goes off. You have to get out of bed, find the disc (perhaps this would encourage my daughter to clean up her room before going to bed?), and insert it correctly in the clock in order to shut the alarm off. I laugh every time I think of this thing. Innovative, practical, and fun. Fun is not a concept that I'm able to consolidate with alarm clock... Oh lighten up. Imagine this: That was actually intended as a humorous ironic remark... I know. So was mine! You've been up until 2am packing, you had to wake up at 5:45 to get an early morning flight, the airport shuttle is outside honking its horn, the baby is crying, and the dog just chewed up little plastic disc from the alarm clock. What's not fun about that? The part about me telling my wife I can't turn off the alarm, gotta go, bye? :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Caffeine
Hugo Mills wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 09:36:58AM -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote: Years ago I imagined such a pill with a known delay (e.g. the time it would take for the outer casing to dissolve). Pills would be available with different delays (different thickness of casing). Thus, you would take a caffeine tablet with say an 8 hour delay and go to sleep. 8 hours later you would awake feeling alert and refreshed, and as if you'd already had your morning coffee. Nice idea, for the caffeine users. A friend of mine used to keep a 2-litre bottle of Coke by his bed, so that in the mornings he could get enough of a caffeine hit to get out of bed and make the first coffee of the day... :-) M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Flexible software (was: Re: Alarmclock puzzle)
I always start with the assumption that EVERYTHING should be designed to be pluginable by default, and only fixed if there are compelling reasons to do so. Alexander Fr?yseth wrote: Good idea Nice Piotr Duda skrev: with all these crazy ideas Im begining to think, that maybe OM alarm clock should be pluginable... so everyone can use snooze plugin she/he likes the most, and even change it from time to time to outsmart her/his sleep mode... 8-) Piotr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A few questions about the games
yeah, but pacman has cooler sounds. i want those for my ringtone. ian douglas wrote: There's another real-world game involving getting a marble through a maze without dropping through holes by tilting the maze-board to get the marble to the end of the maze. Sounds like it'd be a good game for accelerometers... steve wrote: make pacman rip off using the acelleromters ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner games
+1 for both of these. I can see Snake like this being quite exciting. I will award a t-shirt for a decent implementation of either of these. Same for the Labyrinth game. Start coding. You'll be getting your Freerunners soon(ish)* Michael * for some definition of soon Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Etch-a-sketch using accelerometers would rock the classic Snake game would also be and cool with these controls -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner games
Another t-shirt for this one! Michael Heinrich wrote: Something like this? http://sketchesapp.com/Home.html Michael On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Etch-a-sketch using accelerometers would rock the classic Snake game would also be and cool with these controls -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
And then we will buy each other a tall cold beer, and brace for the flood steve wrote: You're welcome matt. When the product hits the floor in Fremont California I will drive to the wharehouse. I will review the incoming QA. And then I will announce to you guys, open the shop and take orders. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:16 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Thank you for not opening the shop before there is something to sell. This is getting way too common of practice at various electronics websites. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:39 PM To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the disty ready to ship before I opened the web shop. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian Reichel Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve? Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve: Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner? I will update the production status over the weekend! Hi, the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany, where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D greetings from Europe, Sebastian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
How about a stylus holder for the rear window of your pickup truck? steve wrote: I’m goingto fashion a vertically mounted gun rack type holder on my back panel. Have you used emachine shop? * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Crane, Matthew *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 7:04 AM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* RE: Stylus Recommendation Sounds like a good candidate for emachnie shop. But how tightly can something like that be locked to the side of the phone? A usb connector by itself is probally not suffecient no? * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Steven Milburn *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 9:06 AM *To:* community@lists.openmoko.org *Subject:* Re: Stylus Recommendation Just had a crazy thought while reading this thread Someone (read: not me. I AM a EE :) ) could make a stylus with a usb connector sticking out along the side. Then, the stylus could plug into the usb port and be held tight against the side of the phone. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like a Nintendo DS style stylus and holder because they're small, cheap, I like how they fit into the casing of the DS. I would try to use the FreeRunner CAD data ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Case ) to make my own case mod design if I could find something to convert Pro-E files. As it stands I refuse to buy Pro-E for a single hobby project. On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 09:12 +0200, Nicanor Babula wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not an electrical engineer, but I think that the voltage/current produced from such a magnet would be negligible. But, even assuming that it would not be harmful, isn't the case made of plastic? Is Well you could take apart the phone and try to find a place to stash a small, really strong neodymium magnet. Then use a thin steel stylus (with a soft plastic tip), shaped to fit against whatever surface has the magnet. It could even fit against the side of the phone, if it had a slightly concave shape. Or mod the case to have a shallow groove for the stylus to fit into, then the stylus could just be a thin steel bar, or rounded on one side as suggested. Since the magnet doesn't move, it shouldn't cause any inductive pulses (although it might cause electrons that are trying to move in a straight line to go off in a curve instead. Not sure if that would affect anything...) Now I am using a motorola A1200E Motoming (linux based ;) ) and it has a stylus too. I like very much the way the stylus is attached to my motorola and I would like to see it on the neo if it doesn't create large additional costs. Check it out: http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motomingedge/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mobile gps gaming
Was this organized by the group area code? M ian douglas wrote: Robin Paulson wrote: i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on mobile phones: There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones... teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press. I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: youtube freerunner vid is up
When you get your Rreerunner, you are welcome to hand it over to your kids/parents/dog/whatever to do the review for you :-) Just be sure to post the video Michael Steven ** wrote: If you've been reading steve's emails ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), he said he handed a Freerunner over to his sons to test out. It's all about who you know, or are related to! ;-) -Steven On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, why did these guys get early copies of a freerunner to review, when they even admitted to not doing this before, and didn't seem to do any research on the product they are reviewing? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
Justyn Butler wrote: 2008/4/29 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... Michael Shiloh is the community manager - he keeps the community updated so the devs don't have to take time off from developing to do it. Unfortunately I still depend on the devs telling me what they are up to, which I find is pretty hard these days, as they are all so busy. Steve has a slightly easier time getting the info from the factory guys, which is why he has been doing the updates lately. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: youtube freerunner vid is up
I was going to challenge my daughter (age 13) and her friends to improve upon the video done by your boys, but now I'm not so sure. At least she can't drive to Weird Stuff yet.. Michael steve wrote: Well it was fun thing. I didn’t tell them what to do. After a few Days I bugged them about where is the video? Some finger pointing back and forth. So I said, don’t fix the blame, fix the problem. So they went out to buy a new camera on their own dime. They also bought a old G3 for 50 bucks. For some strange reason, they want one system for WOW and another for Diablo. I just shook my head when they brought this thing home from Weird Stuff in silicon valley. You guys went to buy a camera and you come back with a G3! arrg. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ramsesoriginal Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:43 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: youtube freerunner vid is up I see a splendid career at techcrunch/engaged/gizmodo for you kids, Steve :D and for the screen, in the related videos there is a video from trolltech where they show of a freerunner and you see the screen. On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was very sure there would be blood. :D but I think we could try Pace and phone as slogan for the Freerunner. Cheers! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steve escribió: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U05kZfURPig hope you enjoy it ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
Ok, everyone, this type of content must stop right away. It will not be tolerated. Michael David Samblas Martinez wrote: We maybe must stop this or freerunner will be the first mobile phone with a PARENTAL ADVISORY tag in its case. :) In oderside it can be a very agresive marketing campaing Open your.phone */Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* escribió: On 4/25/08, steve wrote: Somebody needs to work on the software to make it vibrate better. Maybe I'll have a look at it (need to get the phone first). I got one idea, but I need to test it:) -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=52431/*http://es.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
I'm going to talk to Steve and see if there isn't some way to combine some of you into one order. Is it easier to ship electronic goods from one of your country to the other, with regards to import duty etc.? What about Jordan? Michael Flyin_bbb8 wrote: well mohamed hazem i'm also left alone with no one around i guess :p, in Doha-Qatar On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Mohamed Hazem [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cairo, Egypt. On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mohamed Hazem wrote: What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ? Where are you? Shachar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!
Mohamed, Where are you located? Perhaps we can combine you with something. Michael Mohamed Hazem wrote: What about us the poor people with no one around interested in the FreeRunner ... How are we going to get our pouches and earphones ? On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/24/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided to do something EXTRA for the groups of people who are uniting to execute a group sales. Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. So if you join a group sales organization and buy with other people, then the 10 pack will include these extras. Sean and I are so happy with the way the community is coming together around this idea of group sales that it just made sense. THANK YOU!! This news made me extremly happy -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Somehow appropriate that an archaeologist ended up with this one :-) Michael Joseph Reeves wrote: Number 83 is my favourite: http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/20080425 ;) On 21/04/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/ If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and create what you want. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What US plans are people using?
I have a further question, perhaps best for someone who knows something about how the cellphone system operates: I notice that with my T-Mobile SIM card, my GTA01 camps on the home network, but my ATT card shows roaming. Is it possible that in roaming mode, the system keeps scanning and tries to connect on the home network? Would this explain the oscillation problem that Sean Chiang describes? Michael ian douglas wrote: Rivera wrote: How do you tell which band the phone is currently connecting to? Someone stated in the last day or so that there's an AT command you can send to the Neo's modem to tell which service. how did you know the Blackjack 2 would only connect to the lower freq? The basis of my assumption is that only the higher-power 850MHz frequency could make it through/around the concrete of our old apartment building, especially since the Neo could not connect indoors on ATT whatsoever, but my Blackjack 2 could connect all the time, no matter what. Also, the radio signal from the Blackjack 2 would cause any speakers (computer, radio, tv) to buzz VERY loudly at the old apartment, but at the new apartment where it shows me the 3G icon all the time instead of the EDGE icon, it doesn't buzz any of our speakers even a tiny bit. I don't know if there's any correlation between only seeing the EDGE icon appear on my Blackjack 2 while indoors at the old apartment and having the phone switch to 3G while outside as to which frequency I was connecting on. I see from one source that EDGE can work on both 850MHz and 1900MHz, the two frequencies used by ATT, so perhaps I am still a bit confused about it. I guess I thought EDGE only used 850MHz and 3G was 1900MHz but I see from online documentation that that's not correct. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What US plans are people using?
ian douglas wrote: Travis Tabbal wrote: This implies that a GTA01bv4 can NOT use 850 mhz. But my Neo1973 works PERFECTLY in the USA, which means either it DOES support 850mhz OR that the LACK of 850mhz is irrelevant. As I understand it, 850 will matter or not depending on where you live and what provider you use. So you might be in an area or with a provider that uses 1900 a large majority of the time. Those selling GTA01 units probably live in an area that requires 850 for decent coverage. I can confirm Travis' comments. Until a month ago, I lived in an area of Los Angeles that dropped my current ATT phone down to 850MHz, and the Neo would not connect to the ATT network when this happened. Once I was out in the open, the GTA01v4 connected to ATT just fine. Interesting. I have recently had difficulty hooking up to ATT. I wonder if the reason is that they've switched to 850MHz. How did you find this out? It'd be handy to modify the firmware to indicate on the GUI which band the Neo/Freeruner is using, if that's possible. Not sure if that's been discussed before or not. I believe that Sean Chiang has added an AT command to report this. I would imagine it's in the archives of the kernel list. Let me know if you can't find it. M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Improved page of photographs of Freerunner
Thanks to Mikael Lammentausta, quickstart.openmoko.com/photographs now has a web page and thumbnails, and slightly reduced big images that still capture the essence. Thank you Mikael! (The huge originals are at quickstart.openmoko.com/photographs.originals in case you want to use them for t-shirts or pouches or doggy bags or whatever) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
steve wrote: Anybody can take a seam ripper to the old pouch and reverse engineer it. Hmm. That's a problem, perhaps I should have people sign EULAs to prevent pouch poaching. *Groan!* ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
Ian Darwin wrote: steve wrote: Anybody can take a seam ripper to the old pouch and reverse engineer it. Hmm. That's a problem, perhaps I should have people sign EULAs to prevent pouch poaching. Apparently the dog you see reflected in one of Michael's preliminary photos did chew up one of the pouches sent in one of his shipments. Giving us OpenMokos's first taste of... Pooch pouch poaching. *Double Groan!* Now I suppose you all want a video of my dog chewing up the pouch, right? Although I don't think her process could be considered reverse engineering. M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
ian douglas wrote: Ian Darwin wrote: steve wrote: Anybody can take a seam ripper to the old pouch and reverse engineer it. Hmm. That's a problem, perhaps I should have people sign EULAs to prevent pouch poaching. Apparently the dog you see reflected in one of Michael's preliminary photos did chew up one of the pouches sent in one of his shipments. Giving us OpenMokos's first taste of... Pooch pouch poaching. ... leaving a lovely mess in Michael's yard in the first case of pooch pouch poaching pooping ? Sorry, couldn't help myself. Oh, No! Triple Groan! When will this end??? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/ If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and create what you want. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Please don't read too much into these pictures. They were taken by a poor camera in the hands of an even worse operator (me). Light was imperfect, and reflections abound. I think in one of them you may see a reflection of my dog. This does not mean that every Neo Freerunner comes with a dog :-) Michael Federico Lorenzi wrote: Just from looking at photos, it seems that 02's screen is a lot less reflective then 01? Cheers, Federico On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It DOES include earphones!!! Just great! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - Richard Reichenbacher escribió: The pictures are too small. Can you make post up bigger ones? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/ If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and create what you want. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Steve on V5 versus v6
Daniel Barkalow wrote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote: The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things. Now, I realize that people want accessories. So As this launch gets going I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories. No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration options. It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for an Openmoko pouch. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-) Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks a lot for those photographs helping us waiting for the device. PS : Your camera doesn't seem to be a very good one ;) Michael Shiloh a écrit : Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/ If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and create what you want. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99
So with every n Neos you get a free beer? A weird frequent buyer program? Peter Kraker wrote: I see those 2€ as some kind of twisted way of openmoko giving me a free beer ;) Alexey Feldgendler pravi: The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. The intended audience is a reasonably technical developer, but a newcomer to the community, one that doesn't have the background that most of you have. Furthermore, the guide is not intended to explain everything. It's just a way to get started. That's why I called it a quickstart guide. The guide does not describe how to use the current applications. I expect they will change a lot, and anyway, most people receiving these early samples are more interested in developing their projects based on the Freerunner, and are less interested in using the device as their daily phone. Finally, the web page is intentionally free of any decorations. At some point we will define a standard Openmoko appearance such as font, background color, etc., but for now it's just text. My normal tool for creating web pages is vi, and it shows, although I did try to use Open Office for this one. As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. The quickstart guide can be found at http://quickstart.openmoko.org/ Sincerely, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Thanks for the positive feedback, Neil. By the way, I'm going to add the discussion we had on USB charging, and more sample applications. Michael Neil Davey wrote: Hi Michael, Just had a read through the guide.. you've covered the topics that I'd be after (toolchain, sample app build and install).. Looks good so far... Regards Neil Davey Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. The intended audience is a reasonably technical developer, but a newcomer to the community, one that doesn't have the background that most of you have. Furthermore, the guide is not intended to explain everything. It's just a way to get started. That's why I called it a quickstart guide. The guide does not describe how to use the current applications. I expect they will change a lot, and anyway, most people receiving these early samples are more interested in developing their projects based on the Freerunner, and are less interested in using the device as their daily phone. Finally, the web page is intentionally free of any decorations. At some point we will define a standard Openmoko appearance such as font, background color, etc., but for now it's just text. My normal tool for creating web pages is vi, and it shows, although I did try to use Open Office for this one. As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. The quickstart guide can be found at http://quickstart.openmoko.org/ Sincerely, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Andy Powell wrote: On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Third possibility: I made a mistake. My girlfriend drew those drawings a long time ago for GTA01 and I forgot to remove the second speaker for GTA02. Thanks for catching that! Michael Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Hi Alexey, I appreciate your input. Comments below: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:04:49 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you will see, I have a lot more to fill in, but I would welcome your feedback on what is already there, and suggestions for topics you think should be included. Chapter 4 describes installation of the SIM card, MicroSD card and the battery as if they were one task, while in fact it's three different ones. It's probably necessary to remove the battery to access the card holders; if so, it should be mentioned. Good point. I was assuming an out-of-the-box install, but it wouldn't hurt to make that explicit. Each of the SIM card and MicroSD card can be replaced without disturbing the other one, can't they? Nope, it's a LIFO stack. From the top it's battery, SIM, Micro SD. Gotta take it all out to get at the Micro SD. However, these clarifications and breaking down into three tasks is probably not worth the hassle, as the developers are going to figure it out anyway, and I hardly remember myself ever using a manual to replace the SIM card in any phone. That's because most phones don't have such complicated SIM card holders. Actually, here's my theory: Anyone who has NEVER had a GTA01 will figure out the SIM card holder. Anyone who has had a GTA01 will take awhile to get used to the fact that the card holder locks and unlocks in the opposite direction compared to GTA01. The text mentins provided accessories several times. However, the next deliveries after the some number of the first ones may not include them. Yeah, I'll have to update this once we decide what's in and what's not. Chapter 7 should describe how to find out the current image versions and how to use dfu_util (or where to read about it). It should also tell what happens to the user data when the root filesystem is updated. Yikes! That's a very important point. Thanks! Chapter 8 should describe how to build the toolchain yourself (how is the prebuilt one made?) in case you're not exactly on Intel/Linux. True, but I'm trying to keep it simple. Once I document everything else, perhaps I'll come back and tackle this. Putting stuff in /usr/local/openmoko is against FHS. If the package insists on installing everything in one directory, it should be /opt/openmoko. But this isn't a problem of this guide. Agreeed, and will probably change. Chapter 8 mentions downloading the package to /tmp (where you might not have write access because it's not mentioned in the prerequisites) The beauty of /tmp is that everyone is guaranteed to have write access. As I understand it, that's why it was created. and later unpacking them as if they were in ~/sources. That's a bug and I will fix it right away. Again, thanks for your excellent feedback Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Michael Shiloh wrote: Andy Powell wrote: On Friday 18 April 2008 18:34, Michael Shiloh wrote: The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers or computers can provide this much current. It might seem like a dumb question, the the charger provided can source 1Amp, right? :) Not a dumb question at all. I do say this further down, but perhaps should elevate it. According to this [1] (final pages) it should provide 2.0A. [1] http://tinyurl.com/5sh68w True, but we only use 1A. I should confirm this, but I took the 47K Ohm resistor to mean able to source at least 1A, meaning that it would be possible to ship a different supply and not violate this. I know of no plans to replace the supply with one that can only source 1A, but that is a possibility. I'll look into this. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6?
I'll ask Steve to say something about this. He's much more in the loop regarding our manufacturing process than I am. Michael Tim Niemeyer wrote: Hello Michael Shiloh, can you please clear this? * Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [18-04-08 17:45]: I'm re-posting here some mails from the openmoko-devel Future Button and LED software spec thread [1] in which there are some infos about Freerunner hardware that I think they should be more visible. Summarizing, they say that the GTA02v6 hardware version fixes an hardware bug that causes the LEDs to use about 150mW instead of 25mW. Btw Werner Almesberger stated there that the first batch of GTA02 to be sold will be composed by GTA02v5 phones while GTA02v6 hardware will be sold only in a second phase. The hardware differencies between the two versions [2] (I've updated with this LEDs issue) don't seem so worthless since there are some power fixes (not only this one). Read below: Andy Powell wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: Werner Almesberger wrote: Right now, we could only leave them (the LEDs) permanently on, which comes with a hefty electricity bill, particularly on GTA02v5 (each LED burns about 150mW). In GTA02v6, this should come down to about 25mW, maybe less. But GTA02v5 is not going to ship, is it? Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Werner Almesberger wrote: Last thing I've heard, the first units will be GTA02v5 :-( thomasg wrote: @Werner: do you know - or can you figure out - how many GTA02v5 will leave the factory and reach the customers? I've heard something like thousands. However, I've also heard that there'll be some sort of fix for the LED problem in these GTA02v5. Why this? Why not selling v6 directly? And... Which are other diffs between v5 and v6? I think that the power usage of every element of the phone is vital. And which kind of fix for v5 is planned? I certainly think that this should be made very very clear to people buying the first batches and not just left as a passing comment on the dev list. So why shipping semi-bugged hardware if there's a fixed version ready? [1] http://tinyurl.com/6p2mct [2] http://tinyurl.com/6knk5m -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Tim Niemeyer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Hans L wrote: Great summary Michael, and a good discussion. It would be nice to see the ability to support other fast chargers in the future. That is one of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own specific charger which is incompatible with anything else. Michael Shiloh wrote: In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and 1A. Just to be absolutely clear, are these 3 rates hardwired into the circuitry? I'm pretty sure this is all software, but might depend on the firmware controlling the charger chips. Some chips allow continuous control, some have fixed rates. I'll try to find out. Or might it be possible in the future to support(through only software changes) some charger that has for example a max rating of 750mA, and get the maximum output from it. The discussion up to this point seems to indicate that the best that could be done with this theoretical charger would be 500mA. I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference, but something I'd like to know for sure. - Hans Loeblich ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko
There's a whole cult around this book. Isn't lifehacker essentially an offshoot? Hans L wrote: Oh there's also this video of the author David Allen discussing GTD at Google. I decided to get the book after watching this video. I think he makes a lot of good points. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7vUdKTlhk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko
Hans L wrote: On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a whole cult around this book. Isn't lifehacker essentially an offshoot? I think cult is a harsh word with very negative connotations. I'm not sure why you consider it a cult. Because a lot of people are excited about it? If it can help me, a chronic procrastinator, have better control of my work and life, then is there any reason I should NOT be excited about? Is it any worse than the cult of Openmoko, or the cult of Linux and free software in general? You are right, and I apologize. Cult does have negative connotations, and I should not have used it. There is a substantial following, and I am curious to know whether it can help me get things done as well. Point taken. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide
Perhaps there are two (sets of) speaker holes, but only one of those holes have a speaker behind them. steve wrote: My FR has two speaker holes, but I do recall the spec being mono. perhaps that was just on Bluetooth. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:03 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Neo Freerunner Quickstart Guide On Saturday 19 April 2008 08:04, Michael Shiloh wrote: Since Steve dropped the hint that I've been working on a user guide of sorts for the Neo Freerunner, some of you have been asking me about it, so we've decided to push it to the website before it's really ready. Looking good. The first question I have though is with regard to the first diagram. I was under the impression that there was some technical reason that the Freerunner was a mono device. Your diagram shows left and right speakers. So is it left and right both acting as one or did something change and it's now stereo? Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Hi everyone, With input from the experts who designed the system, I've tried to document precisely how charging works on the Neo Freerunner. I welcome your feedback: The Neo Freerunner charges the battery when 5VDC is provided at the USB port, whether from a computer USB port or from a dedicated USB charger. The Neo Freerunner can charge most rapidly when it can pull 1 Amp from the power supply connected to the USB socket. However, not all chargers or computers can provide this much current. When the Neo Freerunner detects that power has been provided at the USB port, it will attempt to draw only 100mA. This minimum is mandated by the USB standard. This amount of current is insufficient to both power the Neo Freerunner (or even just its backlight) and to charge the battery, and therefore the battery will not be charged. (The battery discharge rate, however, will be slightly lower, as the supplied 100mA will be used to augment the battery.) (When a charger is connected to the USB port, the Neo Freerunner automatically powers up. Thus, if charging at 100mA is desired, the Neo Freerunner must be shut down after the startup process has completed.) After detecting USB power, The Neo Freerunner will attempt to negotiate, via the USB protocol, a higher charge rate of 500mA. If the device powering the Neo is capable of doing so, the Neo Freerunner will charge at 500mA. USB chargers do not implement the USB protocol, and thus can not respond to requests for higher charge rates. Some manufacturers have worked around this issue by installing resistors of different values between different pairs of pins in in order to identify their own chargers of known capacity. This is not part of the USB standard and is completely up to each manufacturer. The USB charger provided with the Neo Freerunner can source up to 1A. In order to identify this special charger, there is a 47K ohm resistor between the ID pin and ground. If the Neo Freerunner detects this resistor, then the Neo Freerunner will charge at 1A. In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and 1A. Notes: 1. USB negotiation and resistor detection is performed in software, and is thus under developer control. A developer might write an application to indicate that 500mA or 1 Amp are available, bypassing the USB negotiation and the 47K ohm resistor detection. There is nothing preventing the software from charging at a higher rate than then power provider can supply, although there is danger in doing so. The danger in drawing more current than a charger or computer USB port can provide is that components overheat and may become permanently damaged, or even catch fire, although most USB host devices implement current limits that will depower the port on overcurrent. 2. The Neo Freerunner charger is a single assembly which includes the USB cable. The cable is NOT a separate item and can not be removed from the charger (without cutting). 3. Any third-party charger that does not contain the 47K resistor will cause the software to assume it can draw only 100mA, regardless of how much current the charger really can source. 4. In its hard-coded configuration, the PMU doesn't charge the battery at all. The hard-coded configuration is used when power is applied to the PMU after a period of complete absence of power, including the backup battery. When the system comes up, it reconfigures the PMU to enable charging. Most of the configurable items are also preserved by the PMU if it powers the system down, but the PMU itself still has power - either from USB, main battery, or the backup battery. (This is the PMU's STANDBY mode.) 5. All of this discussion is for setting the maximum current that the Neo Freerunner can safely draw from the USB socket. The battery charging current may actually be lower, if the charging logic determines that a lower charge rate is appropriate. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Community Member of the Week winner for Week 2, Monday, 7 April
First, my apologies for being late again. Second, thanks all of you who nominated and voted, and thanks to the nominees for their excellent contributions. All of you did excellent work, whether nominated or not, winners or not. The winner for Week 2, which started Monday, 7 April is Kevin Dean, who: ... writes the (almost) daily Snapshot review and reports on the progress and problems of the current software. ... Kevin gives with his reviews an impression of the software from a users point of view. And when the Freerunner is released, I hope Kevin will continue with his reviews so I always know what snapshot is safe to use. Congratulations, Kevin, for being our winner this week! Please send me your choice of item and size, and your shipping address and phone number. The store is at http://128333.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/. Send your email to me directly: michael at openmoko dot org. Finally, as you've probably noticed, it's hard to keep up with a weekly contest, and we don't seem to have quite enough activity to promote a weekly community member. Thus I'm dropping this to a monthly contest. I'll consider returning to a weekly contest when we get the Freerunners into your hands and the activity increases. Please consider which community member should next be recognized. For those of you who don't know where to start, perhaps a look at the projects (projects.openmoko.org) might be a good starting point. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:06:26 +0200, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * you mention 'other manufacturers' that 'identify their own chargers' with various resistors... if I have one of those chargers, is there a way to get the phone to ID it? There are two issues here: First of all, you have to know the value and location (i.e. between which two pins) of the resistor. There is no standard, no gathering place of all this information. You can search the Internet in case someone has posted this. I'm not sure how we measure the resistor. My guess is we measure the current and deduce from this. Measuring the current requires an analog to digital converter (ADC), which we must have wired up to the pin in question. If an arbitrary charger uses a different pin, and if we don't have an ADC on that pin, we won't be able to detect the resistor there. That said, the most common location for a resistor is the same as ours, so you're in good shape. Next, you have to modify the code to do this. Trivial for all you developers. This could actually be done by an application downloadable by a user who knows what he's doing. The user starts the application, plugs in the charger, the application measures the resistance. If it's not something identifiable, too bad. Otherwise, the user reads the output current specification on the charger and adds the pair (ID resistance, current) to the table. That's a great idea. Find the code that checks for the specific Freerunner resistance, and modify it to simply report the value of whatever it sees. If it is anything different from an open or short circuit (within reasonable tolerances) assume it is a resistor, and note the value. Post to the wiki, and if a few other people see the same value for the same charger, this seems safe to code. The reason I think this is of limited use is that I would guess that most of you will simply read the label on the charger, and then use a utility to override all the automatic detection and simply tell the charging logic that 500mA or 1A is available. Automating this is a lot of work for little gain. Not so little if you have a particular charger (say, Motorola) and use it to charge Neo every time. You'd really want it to auto-detect the charger instead of choosing the charging current manually every time. Yes, that's a really good point, and one I had overlooked. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found, the button Add this charger becomes clickable, else it is grayed out. What do you think? Sounds great to me. If this happens before you all get yours, I can test on my prototypes. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 4/18/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This could be done even more simple: - Download and install the program - Connect the charger with the unknown resistor - Click on the button Get charger ID - If a valid charger ID is found, the button Add this charger becomes clickable, else it is grayed out. What do you think? - Ohh, and a valid charger ID would be a resistance between res_min and res_max. - Several pins could be probed You can only probe the pins that have the appropriate hardware interface to them. This may be all, but can't be taken for granted. One of the hardware people can tell us which pins are capable of this, and how you select which one you want to measure. - The program add this value to the /etc/charger.conf for you - The program that autodetects the charger, parses /etc/charger.conf if the file exists Just a thought ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting!
Actually I had stopped thinking about pictures once you told me they had found the charging station. But I can take some pictures. Michael steve wrote: hehe. Michael will probably post some pictures before the clowns figure out the camera power cord problem ( then again, they did make a call in 10 minutes ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:18 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: HAPPY DANCE version .9. Teenagers stop fighting! On Thursday 17 April 2008 16:39, steve wrote: 15 and 19. I think they will probably get the video cable thing figured out. And hopefully post something. just to clarify, we are waiting for a video of the freerunner, not your 2 teenagers fighting ;) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely wants one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the white-and-markers idea isn't such a bad one, eh? Michael Bastian Muck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? steve schrieb: | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold! | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most | are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | My daughter requests pink. | | Maybe the only one. | | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so | you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's content. | | Half jokingly, | Michael | | steve wrote: | Ok, | | Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I | get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the | innards and not the cosmetics. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | Robin Paulson wrote: | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I also would like to have - may be separately: | - Stylus | personally, i'd want: | *a modified charger (if one is made) | *a pouch | included, and that's it | | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm | sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh | well), but include *something*. | | -id | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIBCfNlYiDScJJ+7QRAh9tAJ4/Tqqr+PTRj5NVw0VaaltWG0wF9wCgmzk5 WNMr/UUpVHULk2q7y+KeGbM= =MhoO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Custom cable and custom charger (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)
IIRC, the custom cable is actually part of the charger, i.e. charger and cable is one unit. If you think about it, this makes sense: If the cable were a separate unit, you might plug the cable by accident into a charger (or worse, your laptop) that could not deliver 1 Amp, the phone would think it was hooked up to our custom charger and would start sucking 1 Amp. At best, it wouldn't work, worse, it would damage your charger, worse yet, it would damage the USB circuitry in your computer, very worst, it would start a fire. So the only safe place to install the custom ID resistor is in a charger or charger+cable assembly that is known to be able to safely source 1 Amp. I will document how to create such a custom cable, and I will provide sources and part numbers for the connectors, but users will have to be careful that this cable isn't inadvertently used with a charger not capable of providing 1 Amp. Michael Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Lowell Higley ha scritto: 1) include the custom (closed) cable or at least make it an option I do agree with this... Also if the cable is sold only by Openmoko it should be there, since it's a so important thing for using the phone as a standard phone (I not always have my PC around, and neither I should have electronics knowledge to build my own cable). If some people doesn't agree with its philosophy, he could simply choose not to include it on the pack, or simply, to resell it... Imho it would be a too closed view, btw! 2) ensure the manual includes that a standard USB cable will work. Be sure to list the limitations of said cable. (I think the wiki has this but it needs to be in the docs that go with the phone.) Ok, this could be a workaround, but just a workaround for me... 3) publish the pinout / construction of the custom cable. Maybe publish the BOM and your source of those items. Perhaps a 3rd party could make a small ebay fortune out of this item. Of course for keeping up our idea and to help who loves self-making you'll have absolutely to publish these informations! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye. :-) steve wrote: Ha, Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion *Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one. Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better then nothing. i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway... JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What should be included in packaging
I'm working on the official documentation, and this topic will certainly be covered. The official documentation will not be on the wiki, for this reason. Regarding power issues, it turns out it's very hard to nail this down. I have been gathering information and hope soon to have it all collected. Michael Kevin Dean wrote: I'll add it at some point. The reason I haven't is because right now the Fast Charge applet isn't part of the Openmoko stack. A default image of Openmoko doesn't support this charger in fast mode (which is the ONLY think I'm concerened about, frankly). And... This might show my own biases, but I can't STAND wiki. The general consensus among commoners is that, because wiki can be changed by anyone, they're unreliable. I know this isn't the case, and i do assume that the vast majority of people are doing things with good intention, but having OFFICIAL documentation on a wiki is about as good for the average consumer as having no documentation at all. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a good idea, but for the most part that approved stamp can be fulfilled through the wiki. I'm sure there is already list of compatible hardware / devices that work with the NEO. I suggest you add your iGo charger to that list. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the pouch since I took them out of the box. But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning, because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part of the Neo I find it a hinderance. I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory. I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would be passing unneeded expense to the customer. What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated. I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently high level of quality. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-) They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten. For example this one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
My daughter requests pink. Maybe the only one. I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's content. Half jokingly, Michael steve wrote: Ok, Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the innards and not the cosmetics. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update Robin Paulson wrote: 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also would like to have - may be separately: - Stylus personally, i'd want: *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's it I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh well), but include *something*. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: CAD file
It's a packaging problem. I think whoever created the original zip file must have had the files twice, so the second copy got the .1 extension. I'll fix that when I get a chance. Meanwhile, simply rename it to remove the .1 extension: mv gtc02-msh01.prt.1 gtc02-msh01.prt or whatever is suitable for the OS your using. Let me know if this doesn't solve your problem. Michael christooss wrote: I have downloaded SolidWorks package from the page. The problem I see is all files have .1 on the end of a name. Example gtc02-msh01.prt.1 Is this my problem or packaging problem? Tnx for anwser ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hardware update
Hi Steven, It is my understanding that this is the intention, but I haven't yet received positive confirmation. I'll try to get an answer soon. Michael Steven Kurylo wrote: PVT testing is in process, and I'll ask Steve to send an update within the next few days. A little while ago when I asked, you weren't sure if they are mass producing the 850 and 900 Mhz versions at the same time. Are they being produced at the same time or will we have to wait a few months for the second version? Thank you. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: openmoko on ebay, usb board works with gta2?
Hi Matthew, I have checked with the experts. GTA01 debug board will work with GTA02 (Freerunner), with some exceptions: 1. You can not program NOR FLASH 2. I2C and SPI aren’t available on the debug board The main functions, JTAG and serial console, will be just fine. And you CAN program NAND FLASH. Michael Crane, Matthew wrote: Can the usb board be used with the freerunner phone as well? How much of a branch is the new firmware for freerunner going to end up being? Matt *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Andros *Sent:* Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:24 AM *To:* Openmoko List *Subject:* openmoko on ebay I've been a bit to busy with work to ever do anything on my neo advanced kit, so I'm passing it on to someone who can, It's up on ebay, I'll put up some pictures when my camera battery charges http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160226011921 good luck -- Jeff O|||O ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Car charger to GTA02
Andy Powell wrote: On Tuesday 01 April 2008 17:01, Michael Shiloh wrote: snip By the way, if someone nicely documents step 3, including the resistor value, and how to identify which wires go to which pins, with excellent drawings or photographs, I'll nominate that for a developer of the week award :-) I thought it was Community Member of the Week not Developer of the Week Argh! Andy is quite right. I carefully chose that title to assure nominees aren't limited to developers, as help might come in the form of artwork (e.g. icons, technical drawings for wiki,), music (e.g. ringtones), t-shirt design, etc. Thanks Andy, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Car charger to GTA02
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Michael Shiloh ha scritto: A generic solution can be built this way: 1. Locate a generic USB car charger e.g. http://www.daydeal.com/product.php?productid=10892. Make sure it can supply at least 1A. Note in my example that the specs don't say this, but if you look at the picture carefully you can read the 1A on the label. They are very common. I think I found one for less than $2.00. 2. Purchase a standard USB A to Mini B cable,e.g. http://www.cablesforless.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=14660. These too are common. I have about 4 left over from digital cameras. You can probably get them for free by asking your friends and relatives. 3. Carefully slice open the cable and solder in the appropriate resistor between the appropriate conductors (someone needs to document this) Why not simply connecting the official Openmoko usb cable to the car usb charger? Will it need the mod you've figured at the point 3? Good question. I've assumed the resistor is in the charger and not the cable. If indeed it is in the cable your solution works. Can someone confirm this? Also, if this is true, it means you need to label your Openmoko USB cable is it is not the same as the half dozen other USB cables you have in your kitchen drawer from cameras and the like. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community announcement: poll for Openmoko Community Member of the Week
Hi! Thanks whoever set up the wiki page. I'd like to suggest a minor change: The last column should be the names (or nick) of the voters, to avoid voting twice by mistake. Take a look at the third line I've just added as a sample. If there are no objections I'll make that change at the end of this week when we set up for next week. (I'll just change the column heading.) Come to think of it, we don't really need to record the nominator, do we? Congratulations Kevin and Josch on your nominations! It should be noted that we appreciate the work of all of you, whether you win or not. Michael Sven Klomp wrote: Great idea, Michael! I don't know how the voting should be handled. However, I want to start with a nomination: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Member_of_the_Week Greetings Sven On Friday 28 March 2008 19:32:22 Michael Shiloh wrote: Dear community, I'd like to initiate a weekly poll for you, our community, to nominate a fellow community member who has contributed substantially to the project, whether an application, a bug fix, testing work, How-To guide, whatever. The intent is clearly to identify and appreciate those of you who have made and continue to make substantial contributions, and also to encourage that extra bit of work required to turn a good application into an excellent one, with a nicely polished GUI, a well written user guide, etc. There is also an important open source philosophical point to this: As I speak at many public events, I am often asked to justify the open source nature of this project, and specifically how the community contributes to the project. I try to keep up with everything you all do, but the amount is so high that I'm sure I'm missing many important contributions. This poll will allow you to bring to my attention work I may have missed. I emphasize that this is not limited to applications or in fact software at all. I'm not sure if it makes more sense to do this on the wiki or the website, but I'd like to try doing this on the wiki first. I think our community is sufficiently honest and respectful that we don't need elaborate checks to make sure people aren't voting more than once. Perhaps all that is needed is a wiki page with a table with 3 columns: Nominator (your name or nickname), nominee (who you are voting for) and reason. At the end of the week the winner gets a T-shirt from http://128333.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/ and a new poll takes place. Thoughts? Can someone set up such a wiki page? Once we iron out the details and the wiki page is set up I'll announce this on the announce list. Thanks, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: support win mobile
ROTFL! John Lee wrote: Dear Community, A decision has been made _today_ that Openmoko is going to support Windows mobile. We, the distribution team, want to provide our customers the maximum freedom in choosing whatever platform they want, even the close source ones. We will make necessary modifications to wine, thus enable win mobile on neo. One specific Openmoko hardware is going to support Windows mobile. It's the Neo Pocky. A prototype has been made and placed in our meeting room for quite a while. Please check this url for intro and photos: http://walkingice.twbbs.org/blog/?p=336 Regards, John Lee ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: support win mobile
ROTFLMAO! Ryan Prior wrote: This really shows how little the OpenMoko community understands the Neo. Why port Windows Mobile when we could be porting Windows 3.1? Windows 3.1 is a lightweight OS which has excellent application support from a broad and stable base of industry, and which has successors which we know to be of excellent quality. As the capabilities of future Neo phones increase, we have an upgrade path which we know to be successful and an ever-expanding number of applications supported. The future is DOS - Windows 3.1 On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 01 April 2008 07:05, John Lee wrote: Dear Community, A decision has been made _today_ that Openmoko is going to support Windows mobile. We, the distribution team, want to provide our customers the maximum freedom in choosing whatever platform they want, even the close source ones. We will make necessary modifications to wine, thus enable win mobile on neo. One specific Openmoko hardware is going to support Windows mobile. It's the Neo Pocky. A prototype has been made and placed in our meeting room for quite a while. Please check this url for intro and photos: http://walkingice.twbbs.org/blog/?p=336 Regards, John Lee Wow, I've just ported Windows mobile to the neo1973 perhaps you can license that too? Andy /yes I know //no really, I do. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless charger for Neo
That is priceless. Too good! Thanks for the laugh, Michael Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Hello! Some mobile phone vendors are now looking into wireless charging. A wireless charger technology is more user-friendly than the traditional wired phone chargers. However, users will only truly benefit from the interoperability between chargers for different phones if the vendors agree on a common protocol; otherwise, we'll have the same situation as we have now with wired chargers: every phone vendor makes their own charger incompatible with the others. In fact, an open protocol for transfer of electricity over IP has existed since 2002: RFC 3251 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3251.txt. After DVE (Discrete Voltage Encoding), the electric current can be quickly and securely transmitted to one or more devices over WiFi or Bluetooth in an MPLampS infrastructure. A consumer device can then decode the voltage and use it to recharge its battery. Will OpenMoko, with its openness, be the first to implement MPLampS? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner mass market phone, status?
Hi Matt and all of you, I'll be meeting with Steve on Thursday and will ask him for an update. He's usually in touch with the factory and finds out how things are going. Michael Matt Manjos wrote: Well, the mass market phone itself won't be available for a long time. The next date should be the release of the HARDWARE of the final phone, but shipping with incomplete (developer) software. If you want a final, polished, stable phone, it's going to be some time now. Last I heard the testing was going on for how well they could ramp up production (finding fabrication bugs, improving factory yields). I'd like an update from Michael on that process, but knowing the details won't make it show up any sooner :P Matt On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Kristijan Krsteski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear community, Today is 1-th of April, and by my information We have to see mass market phone available for buying!? It's been such a long time that announce list isn't update! As for me, I'm waiting for mass market phone until July/2007. I thing that without any precision date for freerunner availability in the very near future, I can't wait anymore!? Maybe, this isn't only my decision but no matter how much I would like to have OpenMoko phone, there is time to move forward. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
The problem with non-standard USB charging (was: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the big problem is that there is no standard for reporting current capacity other than the USB protocol, which is not supported by dumb chargers. What this means is that the various tricks that we and others play (shorting unused data pins, adding resistors of specific values between two pins, etc.) are all completely non-standard meaning there is no agreement between manufacturers and most importantly NO PROM iSE THAT FUTURE DEVICES OF THE SAME MODEL NUMBER WILL USE THE SAME TECHNIQUE! In other words we could test a given Motorola charger today, find that they have a resistor of value x between two pins, write the code to test for this value and then bump up the current draw to the value that we know the Motorola charger can provide. But then next month Motorola might change the value of this resistor. They might send a firmware update over the air to all their phones to make existing phones compatible with the new charger. We, of course, do not get this update, and suddenly the charger that we had tested no longer works. For a good example of this problem see Lady Ada's discussion on her Minty Boost. You will see a string of reports from people saying they needed to modify the resistor value and/or location in order to get Minty Boost to work with different models of iPods. And any solution is always temporary, until Apple changes something and then the resistor must change again. Thus the only way we can guarantee safe charging at higher than the USB maximum of 500mA is with our own charger. I would love to see a technical report, a white paper, written on this issue. Would anyone like to take on the challenge? Winner gets an Openmoko t-shirt (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SWAG) Michael Kevin Dean wrote: On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:18 PM, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alas there is *absolutely* *NO* way for NEO though to tell when your braindead 850mA charger will start to slowly melt down overnight when you set 1A charge mode via applet. It's very unlikely there will ever be any trouble other than very rare occasional broken chargers, but we just can't guarantee it's safe, for nobody knows all the chargers in this world. As a hacker poking around with prototype hardware, that's a fine answer. For a mass market device, that's suicide. I understand that the Neo can't make the determination, but in the long run I think that Openmoko MUST. It is physically possible to charge the Neo at it's full speed (because it happens with the USB charger) so therefore it must be physically POSSIBLE to have an AC or DC based charger that does the same thing without requiring a computer tether. If any charger on the market can do this I think it would be simple enough for Openmoko to certify that the MODEL (not each unit, of course) is compatible and, unless it malfunctions, won't burst into flame. If there exists no such device on the market then perhaps that needs to be corrected either directly or indirectly. Put very simple Car charging is a very big deal. Assuming the first (certification) or second (fabrication) options can't be met - drop the fast charge as a feature since anyone unable to fast charge in their car will consider their device broken at best or sold on a feature that doesn't exist. However it's not our fault when sth really bad is happening, for every charger/host is supposed to be short-circuit safe (mustn't burn, otherwise probably mustn't be sold), I don't think anybody expects a certification of safety from Openmoko (there are voluntary organizations like Underwriter's Laboratories here in the US that will certify safety) for a product to go to market and even if they DID nobody can rightly expect you'll certify that no device will ever malfunction. and it's the USER who has to think *before* enabling 1A mode. Hey guys, when connecting your 110V device to a 230V outlet in Europe, whom do you blame for the smoke?! The common user mentality is one that has, IMO, bitten Free Software repeatedly. As a serious (and non-belittling) thought exercise, how many people here know what amperage their car charger pushes out? How many people here have wives or mothers or nephews that know that answer? The average person buys a car charger because the box says Compatible with model. Some might not even go that far since a commonly held assumption is that if it fits in the hole, it will work. Yeah, kinda stupid, but it's also pretty reasonable to expect that this WILL happen. It's also reasonable to suspect that at least SOME people will take that and have it reflect poorly on Openmoko even if the charger was bought third party. It's sometimes easy to dismiss user stupidity when you're writing code that you use and the only signs you see are a ticking download counter or more hits in a server log, but this is something that I think could directly relate to the ability to sell SECOND units to people. bottom line:
Community announcement: poll for Openmoko Community Member of the Week
Dear community, I'd like to initiate a weekly poll for you, our community, to nominate a fellow community member who has contributed substantially to the project, whether an application, a bug fix, testing work, How-To guide, whatever. The intent is clearly to identify and appreciate those of you who have made and continue to make substantial contributions, and also to encourage that extra bit of work required to turn a good application into an excellent one, with a nicely polished GUI, a well written user guide, etc. There is also an important open source philosophical point to this: As I speak at many public events, I am often asked to justify the open source nature of this project, and specifically how the community contributes to the project. I try to keep up with everything you all do, but the amount is so high that I'm sure I'm missing many important contributions. This poll will allow you to bring to my attention work I may have missed. I emphasize that this is not limited to applications or in fact software at all. I'm not sure if it makes more sense to do this on the wiki or the website, but I'd like to try doing this on the wiki first. I think our community is sufficiently honest and respectful that we don't need elaborate checks to make sure people aren't voting more than once. Perhaps all that is needed is a wiki page with a table with 3 columns: Nominator (your name or nickname), nominee (who you are voting for) and reason. At the end of the week the winner gets a T-shirt from http://128333.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/ and a new poll takes place. Thoughts? Can someone set up such a wiki page? Once we iron out the details and the wiki page is set up I'll announce this on the announce list. Thanks, Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
