R: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner?
According to Italian/European Union law: 1) the customer can return the package within 14 days from the receipt of the good bought on-line. No matter if it's perfectly working or if it is DOA. This is not yet a warranty, it applies to goods that were bought by corrispondence or on-line where the customer cannot check the good on the spot. Actually, I don't know to which extent this applies to goods bought on-line outside from Italy, this likely depends on bi-lateral agreements between countries. 2) if, within 6 months from the purchase, the good shows malfunctions, it is automatically presumed that the good was already defective. The reseller must reimburse, repair or substitute the good. Note that this responsibility is on the *reseller*, not on the producer, in case they are different. 3) if, within 2 years from the purchase, the good shows malfunctions, then it is up to the customer to prove that the good was already defective and that the malfunction isn't the result of wearing or improper usage. Again, if the good is actually defective, the reseller must reimburse, repair or substitute the good. After 2 years have passed the legal warranty expires. The producer/reseller can optionally offer a longer or enhanced commercial warranty (3 years or more, 24hrs substitution, etc), but this does not replace the minimum legal warranty. EU directives talk about conformity. A defect is found whenever the device fails to conform: - to existing norms and laws that are applicable to the device (900MHz EM radiation from antenna must not be greater than X...). Failing to comply to norms/legislation may even result in the product being retired from the market. - to what has been declared by the producer (SD and GPS work well together, It can make phone calls, It can receive SMS...) See also: http://www.cedarrapids.org/_includes/fileblob.asp?I=16table=contentext=pdf Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di steve Inviato: lunedì 4 agosto 2008 23.50 A: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'List for Openmoko community discussion' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Michael Shiloh' Oggetto: RE: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner? The warrenty on our web shop is 14 days for DOA. GSM problems could be related to the age of your SIM. So we suggest updated any old SIMS. Micheal can help. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Morris Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:43 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Shiloh Subject: Re: Third request: what *is* the warranty on the Freerunner? ian douglas wrote: Guys, My intention was not to create a message thread for people to vent about what they like or not about the Freerunner. I created the thread to get an official stance from Openmoko about the state of the warranty, and if it would cover any hardware fix offered by OM for the GPS/SD problems. And a good thread it was too :) I am also very curious about the potential GSM fixes. Will these be done by sending it back, or will it be something us hackers can do (and soldering sub-micron capacitors to invisible traces I do not consider your average hacker can do, and I have been playing with a soldering iron for 35 years, and I would not attempt it :) The GSM problems particularly worry me, because it does make the phone useless as a phone and I need to know if I need to go buy another phone as a primary phone or not. Whereas problems with GPS SDCARDS are not show stoppers for me. If it worked fine with a BT headset I could also use it happily. (Of course if we discover a fatal H/W flaw that prevents even BT headsets from working that is also a show stopper for me) So please OM head honchos, get together and please give us a definitive statement as to what the after sales support will be for any serious Hardware issues discovered after shipping. Thanks Jim -- Jim Morris, http://blog.wolfman.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available
Having used it for some time, my impression is that Blender is a 3d modeler which is very much focussed on rendering, while other aspects of 3d design are weak (e.g. keeping control over measurement - no quotation lines). The user interface is unconventional, it is based on a coordinated use of keyboard + mouse takes some time to get used to - actually, I was never able to master it properly. If one wants to do serious CAM then one is better off with something else. Or perhaps export from blender e.g. to autocad. But it is perfectly ok to test conceptual designs. Just my twopence. M -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Michael Shiloh Inviato: lunedì 14 gennaio 2008 20.59 A: List for OpenMoko community discussion Oggetto: Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Jan 14, 2008 11:14 AM, Jeremiah Flerchinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you did say they were going to try and make CAD files available. I'm happy to hear further confirmation back so soon. Hopefully it won't take too much longer to get the files. DXF files should also be fine. I know of several free editors that can import these natively or with a plugin (although not all of them export dxf files). What is your favorite Linux CAD tool for actual 3D work? This would be excellent information to add to the wiki. I am not a CAD designer, but I work with many designers and machinists. Of course none of them are Linux users. I did a little research and found many commercial products for Linux. I presume we are more interested in FOSS CAD tools. The one that stood out to me was Blender. It's designed for much more, but 3D CAD is a solid part of its job. My girlfriend is a product designer. I gave her a Linux computer with Blender installed in the hopes that she will figure out how to use Blender and then teach me. Her initial impression was that Blender is excellent for this kind of work. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1230 - Release Date: 17/01/2008 16.59 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: New Oceans
Welcome back! Thanks for the news and for your efforts to keep the OpenMoko project going and growing. Thanks for your excellent work, and thanks to all in FIC and Neo/OpenMoko group that supported the project so far. That said, our ship lost sight of the shore long ago. Eventually, the ship crew will want to drop anchor into a nice harbour, settle down and perhaps build a new town :-)) Apparently the first release of the Neo hardware is in fact settled and is ready to take over the mobile phone market... or at least a fair share of it. The quest will only succeed if the Openmoko software platform proves to be robust and performing, with a comprehensive (and integrated) set of smart core applications, with an intuitive and appealing user interface and all those gadgets (themes, ringtones, visual effects...) that potential customers would expect from a 400$ handset (GTA02). If you spare some gaps in your priority list, here are some: 1) Architecture: Several posts have recently questioned the OpenMoko application framework architecture, mostly the choice of gtk+. The framework architecture should be reviewed, layered and argumented against a) performance b) modularity c) extensibility d) maintanability. 2) UI: Like it or not, the Apple iPhone UI will soon become state-of-the-art in the phone market. That's why OpenMoko must be able to be as good as the iPhone, or even set higher standards. What we need is not just a couple of wiki pages, but rather a skilled and _committed_ group of people working on designing the UI guidelines for the OpenMoko mass market applications. 3) Business users: we definitely need an OpenMokoOffice (addressbook, calendar, agenda, notepad, etc.) which must be state-of-the-art and must sync smoothly with the major desktop office/enterprise applications. Seek sinergies with other FOSS projects (Koffice, OpenOffice, Kontact, etc). 4) Ease of use: mass customers won't all be hackers. Those things that make OpenMoko so unique should be simplified as far as possible. OS upgrade should be as easy as possible, as this may be a rather frequent operation in the early stages. Application search, download, install, remove and so on should be foolproof. Some other points to keep in mind for the long term: 5) Field applications: the framework should grant support for non mass-market applications on embedded devices, such as in-vehicle devices, tablet Neos, etc. 6) Commercial apps: it is important to try to promote the Neo also among commercial vendors. Hands up who wouldn't buy an OpenMoko TomTom... Regards Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Sean Moss-Pultz Inviato: giovedì 28 giugno 2007 3.20 A: community Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: New Oceans Dear Community, Andre Gide once said, Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Sexism aside, I can't think of a better way to describe our adventures this past year. Around the end of March, we were three months behind schedule. Critical hardware bugs were being discovered almost weekly. I had just returned from an exhausting trip around the world. Harald landed in Taiwan the following week. One look at his face and I knew he was in basically the same depleted state I was in. But, we were both dedicated to keep pushing forward. We've come to realize, largely because of your support, that failure is not an option for this project. For the people pushing this project, an open phone is not really even a product. It's the very embodiment of our vision of technology. We absolutely, passionately, believe that something as fundamental to our lives as the mobile phone must be open. OpenMoko has become far bigger than just a small group of people trying to build an open mobile platform. I can tell you for sure, things will never be the same again inside FIC. To their credit, whole departments and divisions have been reorganized to maximize the opportunity for OpenMoko. This is the reason for my absence from this list for so long. The people inside FIC are amazingly open-minded. Our CEO and Chairman are the two greatest supporters inside this company. Earlier this month they did something courageous and support of the communities commitment. The entire mobile communications division was restructured to build devices for OpenMoko. And OpenMoko -- the project will officially become OpenMoko -- the company. This is how much they believe in us. This is how much faith they have that we will be successful. What does all this mean to us as a company and community? In one word: focus. We now have full control over the future of OpenMoko and the resources needed to give it every possible chance of succeeding. Behind us (well actually still in the same building :-) sits an supportive 800 pound gorilla in the OEM/ODM world, eagerly waiting to work with us to make our dreams a reality. OpenMoko -- together with all of you in the
R: Concern for usability and ergonomics
Well I don't like this statement at all. Don't get me wrong, I can guess (some of) the reasons behind the plain words. But then I wonder whether there is really any transparency in the development of Neo/OpenMoko? What does it mean, being silent and talking in riddles seemingly for our own benefit? What about the collaborative FOSS effort, community involvement, etc? Br Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Sean Moss-Pultz Inviato: lunedì 11 giugno 2007 19.01 A: Miguel A. Torres Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics [snip] Believe me when I say that we are working on new stuff that will address these issues. I have been quiet for the past few months because of some major internal re-allocations and new events. Within about a month we should be more or less finished and emerge with far more focus and resources. Until then, please accept my sincere apology for not being able to keep up with all your comments and questions. Internally all my time and energy is being used now. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone?
I agree that target #2 are my parents, but at this stage iPhone-like fluidity should't be at the top of the priority list. The first prerequisite is responsiveness. The device must react quickly, say: - 15s device startup - 1s startup of commonly used application (dialer, contacts, agenda) - 1s switching between applications - 0.5s interaction within the application - ~5s startup of other (bulkier) applications Sample figures, some can be higher or lower but we should fix reasonable targets. Then we must choose a system software library architecture that is able to guarantee the above, at least for GTA-02 (CPU is going to be only 50% faster than 01...). I'm also fine with GTK, but it seems that the device currently shipped can't get even near to those figures. Note that the current sw architecture is deeply layered, which is great for developing and mantaining applications, but on the other hand apps tend to run slower. It's a trade. Then, if we got here and we still have some spare CPU ticks, we can use them for bells, whistles smoothing things as the iPhone does. Maybe the newer GPU in -02 will help. Br Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Luit van Drongelen Inviato: giovedì 7 giugno 2007 9.54 A: OpenMoko Oggetto: Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as iPhone? Openmoko has 2 goals, right? One is to make a FOSS stack for mobile phones, and two is to make 'your parents' want it. For that last bit, you might need to have a consistent, but also clear and fluid (direct reaction to touch actions for example, click delay is really confusing for people). The devices used are no full-blown computers. So why use software made for computers? I agree we need something that works rapidly in mobile devices. If GTK/Matchbox can do that, then it's fine with me. If it isn't, then more then just cross-compilation will be necessary to get something running on Openmoko, which is fine too, because it's still open-source. It might take a little longer to get something to work, but it'll work properly. The graphics should be quick on slow devices. Not necessarily fluid (like the iPhone) but responsive (like PalmOS). but that's just my 2 cents. -- Luit On 6/7/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tomasz Zielinski wrote: If with GTK/Matchbox we cannot achieve such rich, fluid and, erm..., fluid GUI as iPhone, maybe it's not too late to drop GTK and choose other framework, designed for mobile devices and running quick framebuffer operations? GameBoy provided nice full-screen animations in 1989, eighteen years ago. I feel your pain. Trust me, it hurts me as well... I'm 100% sure nobody will cry after pure-X11 applications we loose this way. Almost every GTK application would require rewriting/porting to fit OpenMoko capabilities, so it's not great loss too. Not to mention font and other DPI-aware issues. Interesting. Can I hear more supportive or counter arguments? What do the others think? Regards, -- - Michael Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ == == Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: Some thoughts about iphone openmoko
I also share your concerns. Some years ago I switched from a Motorola phone to a Nokia phone right because (at that time, at least) the Nokia UI was far superior in features and intuitiveness. Even today I would never, ever buy a Motorola! To me, GUI usability is probably the most prominent factor of success in a product when it comes to sales. You can have tons of features hardwired in the box, but what's the point if you can't bring them up quickly and easily? What's the point if they are not really integrated with each other - and integration is fundamental on a handheld device where interaction is limited by definition. We're all believing that GTA-02 will be the mass market product. However, if the Neo's UI can't live up to the competitor's UIs there'll probably be no mass market at all... apart from the few of us that like playing with wires, solder and GCC. I guess that's not exactly what FIC aims at. Ciao Michele _ Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Fabien Inviato: martedì 5 giugno 2007 19.15 A: OpenMoko Oggetto: Some thoughts about iphone openmoko Open source software hasn't exactly a great record, when it comes to GUI usability. The only graphic OSS application with outstanding usability I can think of is Firefox, and it took them a couple of netscapes and mozillas and forks and rewrites, all in all a decade, to get there. When you ask better interface ergonomics to OSS developers, they tend to understand cramming even more features or put more transparent, 3D bells whistles. I know I know, some hugely successful software companies don't know much better... OTOH, usability of phones is dreadful even when compared to PC applications. Apple is clearly going to shake the whole industry by at last giving to usability the central importance it deserves, for an object we use so casually. And all other clueless commercial vendors are going to copy the wrong stuff, thinking it's all about having a black grid of gleaming buttons on a touchscreen :) There will be attempts to rip off the iPhone's user experience on openmoko, and 99%+ of these experiments will be as huge a failure as their commercial counterparts. But I hope people will realize there are much more interesting stuff to do than copycat Apple, trying to beat it at its own game. There's a good reason why most hackers suck at GUI design: it doesn't scratch an hitch of theirs. They rather stick to their beloved command line interfaces: they've a steeper learning curve, but once mastered they're faster and more powerful. But it won't do the trick on a phone: no keyboard, tougher usage environment, not the same kinds of interactions... I hope that such a harder to learn, but eventually faster and more powerful UI will emerge from openmoko, and I'm really curious to discover what it'll be like. Apple is seldom beaten when it comes to intuitive UIs, and that's not what I demand from my phone; both devices don't and shouldn't address the same market niche. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: R: Some thoughts about iphone openmoko
We're (hopefully) soon going to have a wonderful device in hand, with unprecedented capabilities. I don't know well FIC, but they probably don't have the weight of neither Motorola nor Apple in order to market the product regardless of its actual performance. So, in order for the Neo to be a success beyond the hackers' community, it must be a _damned_ good device and, I mean, both on the hardware side and on the software/UI side. I've read Sean writing on the tech focus being now on the hardware, and that's fine... But as good cooking takes time, the UI is something particularly long to cook. I'd welcome the proposal to appoint a UI/usability guru - or small working group - for Neo/OpenMoko. Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente Inviato: mercoledì 6 giugno 2007 12.13 A: community@lists.openmoko.org Oggetto: Re: R: Some thoughts about iphone openmoko 2007/6/6, Fabien [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To me, GUI usability is probably the most prominent factor of success in a product when it comes to sales. To me, it ought to be, but facts prove that it isn't: I've almost never heard a marketing speech focused on this (except for iPhone); and if it were considered critical, I can't believe phone makers couldn't do a bit better than that. Nokia devices are somekind of reference in usability studies, and Nokia marketing people always talk about that. Don't underestimate the power of doing usability studies in handheld devices to success! -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://moblibertad.blogspot.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: Camera and MMS
Voting for integrated Camera as well for future releases of the Neo. Not using it very much, but it can be handy every now and then. In time I expect that the OpenMoko platform API will grow to support a wider range of peripheral families than are available in the Neo at the moment (camera, wifi, IrDA, accelerometer, ...). I also expect that some API will list the device capabilities so that the sw can adapt to the actual device. MMS seems to be a problem. Apparently there is no MMS standard, or the standard itself is said to be horribly broken (see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/002787.html) or it is tweaked to peculiarities of the Mobile Network Operator in order to discourage migration between providers (MNOs fear open standards!). Someone is already talking about an OpenMoko integrated messaging application that abstracts on the specific media (e-mail, SMS, MMS) so, perhaps, sending/receiving MMS can just become a matter of implementing proper abstraction layers. Ciao Michele Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Joe Shmoe Inviato: martedì 13 febbraio 2007 0.35 A: community@lists.openmoko.org Oggetto: Camera and MMS I know this has been discussed before, but I am trying to see how much interest there is in a camera. I never thought I would use it, but lately, I've found that I am using the camera much more often to take simple pictures and videos and send multimedia messages to friends. This seems like a standard thing now for most phones...and I can say for sure that the younger generations definitely expect to be able to send/receive pictures/videos/voice_recordings using their phone. Are there plans for this to be in ver 2.0 hardware? Are others interested in this as well? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.36/681 - Release Date: 11/02/2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: R: Need info on AGPS
One thing that we should look into is to have something like an RSS Feed of that data, which can be downloaded everytime we have a cheap (bluetooth, usbnet) IP connectivity. Then cache all that data locally. As far as I understand: GPS ephemeris cannot be really cached in the Neo given their unpredictable nature. If they are valid for just 2 hours, then the Neo MUST get the new ephemeris every 2 hours to keep AGPS alive. So, either the Neo is in network range (USB cable or via the Bluetooth bridge, until we have WiFi) or there is no other choice and download them via GPRS. Please correct me if I am wrong! Bye Michele -Messaggio originale- Da: Harald Welte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Inviato: giovedì 25 gennaio 2007 17.51 A: Marcus Bauer Cc: Michele Manzato; community@lists.openmoko.org Oggetto: Re: R: Need info on AGPS On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 05:12:09PM +0100, Marcus Bauer wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 16:24 +0100, Harald Welte wrote: 3. A-GPS involves additional data traffic and thus (potential) additional costs. Does it use a normal GSM/GPRS IP-based data transfer? does it use some out-of-band GSM/GPRS control messages? or does it get data from broadcasts in the local cell (e.g. GSM cell-broadcast)? AFAIK: GPRS. so its up to you whether you want that extra traffic (and cost, unless you're flat) or not. The Global Locate docs state TCP/IP as one possible way. So via USB-network or BT should be possible too. What do you think do we run on top of usbnet and bluetooth BNEP ? The answer is: TCP/IP ;) So anything that uses TCP/IP and can be attached to the phone will be able to connect the AGPS server[s]. You need it only once for the first fix. It is ~2KB for all satellites and valid for 2-4 hours. Precomputed for a week maybe 1MB. One thing that we should look into is to have something like an RSS Feed of that data, which can be downloaded everytime we have a cheap (bluetooth, usbnet) IP connectivity. Then cache all that data locally. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date: 24/01/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 26/01/2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: an idea: GPS blog?
Nice to keep as a personal record, BTW that's done in several time tracking apps. But who's willing to tell the world where (s)he usually hangs out and when during the day? Cheers Michele _ Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Oleg L. Sverdlov Inviato: martedì 23 gennaio 2007 10.51 A: OpenMoko Oggetto: an idea: GPS blog? Videoblogging has its niche, but how about a small application that remembers where you've been during a day , and how long; and then visualizes everything in form of nice coloured curves, and publishes to your blog? -- Best regards, Oleg. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/644 - Release Date: 22/01/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.4/644 - Release Date: 22/01/2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
R: is google.com down? Move this list to a BB/Forum system?
My feeling is that long-term development projects usually stick to mailing lists (thinking of kde, subversion family, ...). Independent groups usually establish a forum. Wiki is good to set things down after some discussion took place. I think it's mostly a matter of getting used to a way of staying together. If anybody cares, my own preference is to furums (it's easier to track discussions, audience can be wider) although I find it easier to post to mailing lists indeed. Whatever tool, in time I'd suggest at least to structure the community discussion into different areas: hardware, software, development, evolution, etc. Michele -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.0/639 - Release Date: 18/01/2007 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
