Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? I do! :D (just kidding) I recently was at a dinner with former colleagues. The subject turned to OpenMoko and mobile phones. I asked my female former colleague what her killer feature would be. Without hesitation she said: It has to be red. That was the ONLY requirement. When I told the story to my girl friend she said: Can I get one in red, too? Neither of them cared about about the size of,the phone (which I personally find a big too large), as they were going to carry it in their bag. I think we seriously underestimate that 50% of the population is female. If painting it red can raise the sales, I would say, go for it. /Ole ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:13 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace. As mentioned in other thread the color seems to matter a lot to females. When it is ready to be used by the general population, please consider introducing a female-friendly color (red?). The thought was this. Shipping to a HUB in Europe and then having that HUB service Europe Would be CHEAPER than shipping to the US and having the US serve Europe. Seemed logical. That was wrong. How was this computed? From the view of FIC or the view of the consumer? If I buy from the US I will have to pay shipping (which is at least double of shipping in EU), VAT (25%), import service fee (USD 30). If I buy from the EU I will have to pay shipping, no VAT, no import service fee. If the shipping from US is 80 USD and the phone is USD 400, then I will be paying around USD 570 to receive the phone from the US. /Ole ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Talk on OpenMoko at T-DOSE (Netherlands)
I have been invited to speak at T-DOSE (http://www.t-dose.org/t-dose/). However, there is a risk, that I will be going to Singapore at that time. Would anyone be able to fill out for me if I cannot make it? /Ole ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 preorder please?
On 1/22/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Murphy wrote: I would like to propose asking the openmoko.com http://openmoko.com to add a preorder form for stable developer hardware platform. I'm researching this within the company. I don't have an answer yet, but I would agree with Tim, that it is unlikely that we will be able to set up a pre-order system. It's not just an issue of the CC provider, but rather with laws that prevent charging a credit card until the item purchased has shipped. As a former employed at the Danish Consumer Agency I can confirm this is the law in Denmark, too. Would it be hard just to postpone the charging of the creditcard until the order has shipped? (All Danish web shops do this. If an item is temporarily out of stock your credit card will not be charged until the item is in stock and shipped to you). The good news is that we intend to build many more than before, so that pre-order won't be necessary. I have done 5-10 talks on OpenMoko with more coming. After each talk most of the audience is ready to buy (guesstimate in total: 500 handsets). I will not be surprised if FIC yet again underestimates how many handsets should be build in the first run. The pre-order could at least give an idea of that (plus I would have a pre-order URL to point to in my presentation). /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Bricked Neo
On 8/22/07, Mark Chandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I ran a nand erase when I was a bit tired and have killed my phone. Anyone in Sydney with a debug board that I can use to resurrect it? When you unbrick it, maybe you could document the exact commands you have to run? I think it might be handy for people to have a short how-to on converting a brick to a fully running system without having to read all details on all the programs. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
On 9/6/07, Stefan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. On Wed, 2007-09-05 at 23:27, Ole Tange wrote: I just got a 4 GB SD flash card. It seems this does not work. It may just be this model though. Mine works fine. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93 SanDisk 4GB microSDHC 07190023400ZC That number looks more like a serial of the card and not the product number to me. I agree. It is, however, the only number on the card. and also not in a Linux machine that is newer than the Windows machine. Which kernel version? SDHC support was added in 2.6.21 2.6.18, so it may explain the Linux issue. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 4 GB SD flash card does not work
On 9/5/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5 Sep 2007, at 22:27, Ole Tange wrote: I just got a 4 GB SD flash card. It seems this does not work. It may just be this model though. Does it show up at all or just doesn't mount? you may need to format as ext3 if it doesnt mount. It does not show up in /dev. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
4 GB SD flash card does not work
I just got a 4 GB SD flash card. It seems this does not work. It may just be this model though. SanDisk 4GB microSDHC 07190023400ZC So if you try it out with a 4GB card, try to get another one. In a SD adapter it works in a computer running Microsoft Windows. It does not work in my 2 cameras and also not in a Linux machine that is newer than the Windows machine. I have a feeling it might just be a driver issue. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Will Openmoko ever see the light of day? Was Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics
On 6/13/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: denis wrote: That is something I would like to know as well. The statement ist not really clear and seems to be very misterious. I don't know. In all honesty, has there ever been a really clear statement about this device? I'm beginning to feel (as was eluded to in others' posts months ago) that this is vaporware, and that we are just being strung along. Flame me all you want, but until I have something in my hot little hand how can I possibly be led to believe anything else at this point? I understand your concern. I have at the moment 2 Neo1973 pre-production handsets in my hand. So if this is vaporware they are *really* going the extra mile to make it look convincing. Is there anything I can do to put your mind at ease? Will photos of opening it help, so you can see it really is not just a bunch of plastic? /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
First impressions of Neo1973
= Hardware = == Size == The phone is BIG. There is no other word for it. It makes it even worse when you open the phone and see that a lot of space is wasted: Half of the thickness is taken by the battery, a very small vibrator, 2 small loud speakers and half of the 2 antennas - leaving 50% of half of the phone as empty space. The carrying hole is just making this worse. I am not sure if you could have made the phone slimmer, but it seems that it would have been easy to make room for a battery twice the size. I usually carry my Siemens S55 and my Samsung NV3 camera in one pocket. But swapping the S55 with the Neo is going to take some time getting used to. == The screen == The resolution of the screen is awesome. I still need to try it in sunshine. == The hardware button == There is a hardware button on the left side. But it is hard to press (I have to use force), which will limit its usefulness. Had it been extended a few mm then it is in the perfect location for my thumb and might be useful as a CTRL key. == The power button == To turn the phone on you have to hold the power button for 5 seconds. You get no feedback during this and it is hard to feel if the button is actually pressed. It would have been nice with some feedback. A status LED would be sufficient. == Connecting the USB == I still have doubt whether the USB cable is actually plugged in and the phone charging, because I cannot turn on a completely discharged phone as soon as I plug it in. If my Siemens S55 is completely discharged I plug it in and from that second I can use the phone normally again. An LED on the phone to should it when it was charging and show when it was ready to turn on would help a lot. == The MicroSD holder == Putting the MicroSD card into the phone takes some practice. The holder is very fragile, so you probably only want to do this once and do data transfer via USB/Bluetooth. If this is not improved for the mass market phone the package must contain a how-to-install-microSD-card otherwise I predict broken MicroSD holders. = Software = Software is very limited at this point: I have yet to place my first call using the phone. == Placement of buttons == I read from left to right. I will expect most people, who will use the phone, will do that. I believe it is because of this, that I find it natural that if presented with 2 buttons 'previous' and 'next' I will expect 'previous' to on the left side. That is similar to the web browsers I use: Left means back, right means forward. If I click something wrong in the web browser and want to undo that I press back (i.e. left) again. So to me the following actions should be put on the left side: left, undo, back, cancel, previous, no, reject-call and these should be put on the right hand side: right, apply, forward, OK, next, yes, answer-call, do-it From this I also find the following gestures natural: Drag-left = backspace Drag-right = space Backspace is similar to undo and if a gesture is needed for the left-grouped buttons then this should be it. The right-grouped buttons should have the opposite (similar to space). == UI improvements == I like to drag things. In the calendar I cannot see the whole day. I have to use the scrollbar (which BTW seems not to be proportionally resized). I would like to simply click on the time and drag that up or down (like when you drag around a PDF file in e.g. Acroread). And do the same with the days in week view. The feedback is bad. I was often in doubt whether I had clicked or not. Using the hour glass icon more would help some but not solve everything. == Application: Screen rotate == This rotates to landscape and back. Neat. But again the feedback is too slow. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
On 5/14/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Hardware = I have been asked which phone versions this covers Phone version: GTA01B_V3 and GTA01B_V4 Both are phase-0 phones. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
On 5/14/07, mathew davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested to know what you thought were strong suits of the phone. Programs you liked, and other things that the phone does well. Just curious I guess. I like hearing about the phone from people who have actual models. It is a developer phone, so it is hardly surprising that the quality of the software is lacking. Thus, I have so far not been able to place a call. The other applications can hardly be called strong. The size is surprisingly accurate to my paperdoll http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/27/Neo1973-doll.pdf So if you want to get a feel of how big it is - print it out and start folding. A picture of the (bangend up) doll, a couple of phones and a CD is here: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:PhoneSizeComparison.jpg /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phase 1+ discount quantity
On 5/14/07, Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The details of the P1+ discount for people who buy a P1 aren't out yet but I wanted to put forward this question anyway. Do you think this discount will be locked in a 1:1 relationship? ie, buy one P1 and get a discount on one P1+ Or do you think we will be able to buy say, two discounted P1+ phones even if we only bought one P1 phone? The details are not know as of now. We do not even know if there will be a discount at all. Personally, if I was FIC I would let it be a 1:1, so if you buy 1 phone, you can get 1 phone of the next model with a discount. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB host connector? (was Re: Battery powered charging/USB hub)
On 5/14/07, Doncho N. Gunchev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 2007-05-14 11:57:09 Hans van der Merwe wrote: Does anyone know how much work it will be to get the USB host working? I will need it to drive a webcam for one of my projects. Will this be possible? If not done, you can still use microSD card with micro to SD convertor, right? Not really. The microSD in the phone is located below the SIMcard and below the battery: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_back_open_white.jpg However, I too am under the impression that only software is needed to have the USB-connector act like a host. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Tactile Feedback
On 5/14/07, Jonathon Suggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had mentioned this before, but it didn't get much conversation since it was deep within a thread. Anyway, since there are no hardware buttons for input, could we not use the vibrator to give a quick pulse so that you still have some feedback as to when a button is pressed? It might go a long way in making hardware keyboard less entry more acceptable. http://www.time4.com/time4/microsites/popsci/howitworks/cellphone_motor.html Any thoughts? It was discussed here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000917.html I have updated the wiki with the idea of adding sound and visuals. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/VibratorAsKeyboardClick /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flash Player 9 on OpenMoko?
On 3/19/07, Frank de Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if you want Flash use Gnash. At FOSDEM I had a chat with Rob Savoye. He is one of the lead Gnash developers. He was very interested in porting Gnash to the Neo1973. If you want to help him join the Gnash project. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Datatransfer during conversation
I am not sure if this idea is already described. When you have a conversation with another OpenMoko user you may want to transfer some data. It may be a business card or an URL or something similar. My idea is to have the smartphone send a synchronizing sound and then do the data transfer. During the transfer the voice quality will be degraded or completely missing. After the data transfer the call will continue normally. When the receiving smartphone gets the synchronizing sound it will present to the recipient: The caller want to transfer 'foo'. It will take approx 20 seconds to transfer. Do you want to accept? The actual data transfer may be done with some modem technology or simply DTMF-sounds. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: up-to-date business card
If I receive a business card it sometimes happens I try to call a year later. At that point the person has a new phone number and I will have to look that up. I would much rather receive an intelligent business card that was always up to date. To secure anonymity we will need a protocol that will allow me to get the new information without everyone knowing I got that. It will be OK if the original person is informed. Maybe using some kind of web of trust? /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Call-for-WiFi (was Re: Crossroads)
On 3/14/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We absolutely need chipset (or even SMT module using the chipset) specifically designed for the power and size constraints of mobile phones or other equipment such as portable media players. Can you give some numbers for the power consumption and size? /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Wake me during light sleep
If you are woken during periods of light sleep then you will feel more rested than if you are woken during deep sleep. To reliably identify when you are sleeping lightly we will need EEG. In a real life scenario that is not possible and it may be OK if the identification is not completely reliable. If we assume that you are more noisy (e.g. turning in you sleep) then we can use the noise level as indicator. You will then set 2 alarm times: Wake me no later than this time, and wake me no earlier than this time. Between these 2 timestamps we will try to identify if you are sleeping light and wake you up. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 6.5K color Display?
On 2/27/07, Rockmen Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From list http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001353.html it says the default visual is 16-bit depth. Does it indicate a 6.5k color display? I would say it would indicate an X server running at 16 bit, but saying nothing about what the display is capable of. But from the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware it seems the LCD is capable to display 26.2k color. The wiki links to: http://www.tpo.biz/ENG/business-eng/Activer-Matrix-VGA.htm Here it says 262k. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wiki Editing Guidelines
On 2/21/07, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Harald Welte skrev: This is really important not to confuse users. Imagine somebody googling for GSM Phone and Wifi and he ends up in our wiki on a page that describes what wonderful things you can do with wifi on an [not explicitly marked as imaginary] OpenEZX phone. Now that person buys a device, to only then find out that this is some wishlist/dream of somebody. It's even more complicated... OpenMoko being a distribution. An idea may or may not be implemented in the distribution. May demand some hardware features of the device. Finally, different devices that physically have those features may or may not have these feature supported in the distribution. Marking things wishlist is a start, but listing needed hardware features is nest step, and when it matures and start being implemented, listing supported devices may be a good idea. I still do not like the wishlist concept for reasons I described earlier. I have given it some thought and I have implemented it on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distance_Measuring Does this address Lars' and Harald's concerns well enough? /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: That other thing that everyone asks
On 2/26/07, Richard Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 26 February 2007 13:20, Rod Whitby wrote: Thanks to Ole and SpeedEvil (on IRC), the FOSDEM talk is now on video.google.com - search for openmoko and you'll find it. One interesting thing is said at 30:20. Food for speculation... Would they really add *that* so late in the process? Congratulations! I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to discover that. I asked Sean after the talk: So this other thing, is that what I think it is? Yes. So it is confirmed: The thing I think of is added in the summer-2007-model. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones
On 2/20/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 17:32 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote: Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ? Of course we'll have a warranty ;-) I'm not sure of the exact terms at this point. Probably something standard like 1 year. Which in EU will translate to 2 years if sold in EU (as per EU legislation). /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS time synch
On 2/20/07, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Harald Welte wrote: On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 11:47:23PM +1100, Mark Chandler wrote: Would it be possible to keep the Neo's internal clock accurate using time stamps from GPS information? yes. That is only during GPS being powered up, of course. We probably don't want it to be powered unconditionally, since it drains quite some power. If it is cheap it might be an idea to grab the time everything GPS is used. See also http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Set_Local_Time /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Content from the old wiki to the new wiki
On 2/18/07, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/18/07, Richard Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can PDF files not be uploaded? it says that that is not a recommended image format, but I'm trying to upload it as a file, not image. I will look into that. I just uploaded http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/27/Neo1973-doll.pdf by checking the box: Ignore warning. I can link to it using: [[Media:Neo1973-doll.pdf]] Hope that answered your question. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Content from the old wiki to the new wiki
On 2/18/07, Richard Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 18 February 2007 17:19, Ole Tange wrote: I would think it might be better put under http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Current_events Except that that page is not linkled from the front page, that I can see. Look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page The navigation bar on the left hand side. Could the Current_events page be set to show its 5 first items on the frontpage ? (I'd use the views module if this was Drupal). That would be neat. However, I have never seen that done in MediaWiki. It might, however, be possible. If you find a solution, let me know. Events are typically date centered. Would it be feasible to change all event titles, so they start with the start date in ISO8601: -MM-DD? Then the category page would show events in calendar order. 2007-02-23 FOSDEM 2007-03-15 Pingwinaria 2007 I tried that, by moving the current page, but the category links don't get updated, and I moved the main page first by accident (and moved it back), so in the end I left it like that. Could you elaborate with a few links so I can reproduce the problem you see? The Search function doesn't seem to work at all. That is a bad bug report. If you search for NEO you get no results, so I thought it didn't work at all. There are no pages that contain the word NEO, that is why you get no results. However, if you search for a word that _does_ exist, it actually works. E.g. I just entered 'warning' and clicked 'Search' and I find 10 pages that contain the word 'warning'. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Copyrights in the wiki
On 2/17/07, denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got a question. Is it allowed to post screenshots from MacOS applications and use them as a reference for the layout and look of the phone? For example here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Date_%26_Time_Preview I would recommend against it. The wiki clearly states: Please note that all contributions to OpenMoko are considered to be released under the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 (see Project:Copyrights for details). If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here. You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION! Had it been in Wikipedia I would have expected a FairUse banner on these images. If you can make your own mockup using free software I would say: Go for it. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Caller set ringtone
Caller should be able to transfer and set his ring tone. If the phone displays a picture when the phone is ringing, then caller should be able to transfer and set this as well. The transfer of the ring tone should preferably be done, when calling. But if that is not feasible then it should be done the next time the phone is connected to a cheap communication channel (internet). To avoid abuse the callee should be able to deny people from doing it. Default would be deny. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
On 1/31/07, kkr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another exemple of uses for an accelerometer: magnifier command set (enable only in the context of a picture viewer or web browser application). Look at http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas/3DViewport /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko at FOSDEM
It seems we are a few who are going to FOSDEM in Brussels this year. I suggest we have an informal gathering. Where? When? Ideas? Put them here on the list or update http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/AtFOSDEM /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Linux vs. GNU/Linux
The discussion whether to call it Linux or GNU/Linux has been going on for some time and now it is also on this mailinglist. May I suggest a compromise: If you want to call it GNU/Linux, then call it GNU/Linux, but stop bothering people that calls it Linux. If you want to call it Linux, then call it Linux, but stop bothering people that calls it GNU/Linux. If people ask you why you chose the one then answer them politely by personal email. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi
On 1/21/07, Tom Berger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the rationale behind the exclusion of WiFi? Will you consider including it on future revisions? Will it be possible to extend the MoKo with a WiFi card or something like that? See: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea for one of the next Neos: Projecting the display via LEDs
On 1/21/07, Wil Chung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you need to also put it on the wiki of Ideas. :) http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeas I have created: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ExternalDisplay /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Child tracker
Hi Dean. You have written a comment on the wiki on the child tracker. http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/ChildTracker You mention the idea might be patented. Would you happen to know (or be able to find) any of the patents? Maybe it is only patented in parts of the world, so it could be implemented freely elsewhere. A dedicated third party seems not to be needed if you use GPSfriends (which will require a third party, though). /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Time to copy 1GB via USB 1.1 = 12 minutes? Re: MikroSD under the battery - unmount, sleep modus, small capacitator Re: MicroSD Wifi ?
On 1/16/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - changing SIM / microSD card without reboot Not sure why anyone would need to switch SIM constantly... gooing abroad - using a cheaper tariff I would prefer a mutipexer for 4 sim cards... but we already had this discussion.. on this list Why will a cloned SIM not work for you? See: http://ucables.com/ref/SIM-CLONE http://www.vavolo.com/productdetails.asp,ProductID,2687,,.htm /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unpowered USB as a data drive?
On 1/16/07, Pranav Desai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From some info on the list I gather that the SD card will have no more that 4GB, so will I be able to use a USB flash drive with 'X' GB storage for media files e.g. I am asking since I am not sure what implication does the Unpowered aspect have on USB devices. You will not be able to attach a USB stick directly. You will be able to attach a stick to a USB hub and attach the hub to the Neo. You may be able to attach a USB harddisk, if it has external power. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Audio-in and audio-out on same connector
It has been discussed on the list that it might be useful to have connector for line-in. So far I have found that the price would be too high, as the device will then have to have yet another connector. But then I wondered: Would it be possible to use the same physical connector? I have never seen a device where the same connector could act as both audio-in and audio-out, but my logic says that it should be possible in theory: When in audio-out mode the line will be controlled by a ADC and when in audio-in mode it will be controlled by a DAC. It would rarely make sense to have the ADC and the DAC be active at the same time. Is there a physical limitation I am not aware of? /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/AudioInAudioOutOn1Connector ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Widget: Voicetext
In a lot of programs you have to enter text. When working on the road it is sometimes awkward to enter text. In these situations it may be easier to say something. Every text field should support recording a message. If possible it should try to convert the speech to text, but the speech should always be available until a person has entered text into the text field. When the field needs to be understood by the computer (e.g. a phone number) the computer should require the human to convert the speech to text. Activating voice text can be done by a gesture or maybe even by voice. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/VoiceText ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Human screenning
Phone spam is when a computer dials your number and when you take the call a recorded message is played. Phone spam is not that widespread yet, but will probably be when flat rate phones (such as VoIP to VoIP calls) become more widespread. To fight phone spam a human screening facility could be included: The phone owner will record a riddle that the caller will have to solve before being let through. If the caller cannot solve the riddle the call will be diverted to voice mail or dropped entirely. The riddle may be simple as: What is 2 + 4? And when the caller presses '6' he is through the screening. It is important the the phone owner records his own riddle, as that will make it impossible for computers to get through. Other examples of riddles: Enter 134 backwards. Spell pat using the phone. Press star. For a more advanced setup the owner can have multiple riddles that will be played at random. Callers on the white list will not be required to solve a riddle. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/HumanScreening ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Noise Cancellation
Using the microphone we should be able to do some noise cancellation. Maybe when playing music the Neo could record the ambient noise and try cancelling that. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/NoiseCancellation ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973
On 1/13/07, Oleg Gusev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 01:53 schrieb Mikko Rauhala: Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb... What about VAT, customs clearance and warranty when one orders directly ? If FIC are smart they will sell to the EU citizens from an EU address. This will make the customs clearance and warranty problems disappear, as EU has the same minimum standards for warranty (see http://www.euroconsumer.org.uk/index/consumer_centres.htm) and no customs for goods internally in EU. I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will probably make sense, too. I would expect the same setup would go for US. The rest of the world will probably have to deal with the mess. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: MicroSD Wifi ?
On 1/15/07, Dwayne Bonson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've read a few questions and comments from the list archives about wifi with the Neo but it seems most are looking at USB as an alternative but that's not really mobile if you need to carry a powered USB hub around also and then find somewhere to plug in. Wouldn't a microSD wifi card do the trick? Probably not. From: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess You could in theory use the micro-SD slot for a [WWW] WiFi-card. But the slot is located under the battery in the middle of the phone, so the signal may not be very good. Also you will have to sacrifice having a micro-SD flash card for storage and you will then be limited to 64 MB. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The actual release date of NEO1973
On 1/12/07, Shu Hung (Koala) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any information on the actual release date of NEO1973? After working in the IT industry I know that actual release dates are dangerous and should be avoided if possible, as you may feel forced to rush out a product with known bugs. What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order, so you will be the first to get a phone. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone vs. Neo1973 comparison
On 1/12/07, Gervais Mulongoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, if you are willing setting a temporary site that brings together a digest of the items being discussed in the list would be great. I wouldn't mind editing if it was needed. But let me know what you think. I tried searching for OpenMoko on http://rejon.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=openmokogo=Go I found nothing. On linuxtogo I get 34 pages. http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/RecentChanges?action=fullsearchcontext=180value=openmokotitlesearch=Titles May I suggest using linuxtogo? /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Non-gprs Internet access options without wifi (cel-dialup)
On 1/12/07, Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi... I just stumbled across this project yesterday while getting over my disappointment at the announcements that the iPhone would be a closed system Feel free to help others stumble upon this project. There any other non-obvious options for Internet access with this phone that don't involve GPRS? I suppose IP over Avian Carriers would work... See: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMokoIdeasWithWiFi /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iPhone vs. Neo1973 comparison
On 1/10/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Standard Kit: * 120.7 x 62 x 18.5 (mm) * 2.8 VGA (480x640) TFT Screen * Samsung s3c2410 SoC @ 266 MHz * Global Locate AGPS chip * Ti GPRS (2.5G not EDGE) * Unpowered USB 1.1 * Touchscreen * micro-sd slot * 2.5mm audio jack * 2 additional buttons * 1200 mAh battery (charged over USB) * 128 MB SDRAM * 64 MB NAND Flash * Bluetooth (yes bluetooth!) I have created a comparison between iPhone and Neo1973: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/iPhone Feel free to add info or correct mistakes. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patent?
On 1/10/07, Christopher Heiny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One patent that Apple may be referring to is described here: http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/apple_files_patent_for_wireless_ipod_with_ringtones_micro_browser But the article doesn't say whether it was granted or still in the application process. And then they are probably just filed. I cannot find the application, but it would probably be good if people could find prior art on the ideas, as some of the will be interesting to do on the Neo. And then there's this one: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=20060268528.PGNR.OS=DN/20060268528RS=DN/20060268528 It is definitely not this one. It only applies to making the box of ceramics instead of plastic. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Taxi hire system
This idea would probably make sense to implement for a company that sells taxi hire administration systems. Each taxi is equipped with * a Neo * a USB hub (powered by the car) * a USB printer (powered by the car) * a USB credit card reader (powered by the car) The Neo will have internet access somehow. This can be done using GPRS or using an external radio (short range taxi radio or wimax) connected through the USB hub. The position of the car is transmitted to the taxi central server. Using push-to-talk the driver can call the central. Voice is VoIP. Using push-to-talk the central can broadcast to all drivers. Voice is VoIP. The position of the free taxis is public including the direct phone number of the car. It can be seen on a webpage, but can also easily be downloaded via XML. You can select that you only want to see cars close to a certain position. If a customer is looking for a free car, he will download the list of free cars close to his GPS position. The cars will be displayed on a map with an arrow indicating which way the car is heading. By clicking on the car a customer will call the direct phone of the car and can arrange for pickup. The GPS position of the customer can be transmitted directly to the car for easy locating the customer. When the customer is in the taxi the driver will mark the taxi as occupied. The position will still be reported to the central server, but will no longer be published. The customer will tell the destination which will be put into the Neo using map and spelling. E.g. spell substrings of the street and all streets matching all the substrings will be shown on either a map or a selection list. The correct street can be selected. The Neo will give directions and give ETA. It will also give an estimated price and the actual price. When arrived at the destination a receipt is printed on the USB printer. The customer can pay by credit card (using the credit card reader) or by his mobile phone. Data are sent encrypted via the Internet. When the taxi is driving it will record road conditions and report these, so the navigation planner in other taxis will be updated. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/TaxiHireSystem ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Virtual desktop
When the desktop is only 640x480 it would be handy to easily change between multiple desktops. /Ole -- http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/VirtualDesktop ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Using FM Radios without cables as PA for the Neo1973 - Question, in which countries is it legal to use 50 nW (nano Watt) FM87.5-108.0 Mhz transceiver?
On 12/17/06, Graham Auld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ofcom in the UK are due to legalise them this month, it seems they've decided on a standard which will allow these transmitters to be used in future throught the EU AFAIK, http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/11/nr_20061123b I can confirm this: I asked The Danish Frequency Authority (itst.dk) and they sent out a press release on the 4th of Dec that it was legal in DK. They write in the press release that the rules are based on an international decision (though they do not cite what decision precisely). It might be the European Radio Communications Committee. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: If someone called alert me when I get back
Assume the phone is left unattended. Someone calls and the phone rings, but no one picks it up. Later I return and I do not see the missed call. It should alert when it becomes aware that someone is nearby. It should use its sensors to determine if someone is nearby: A change in the background noise level can be detected using the microphone. A change in location (i.e. being moved) can be detected by GPS. By measuring distances to the object infront of it, it can tell if somehing is moving in front of it. In the future a camera can dected changes in lighting. The alarm should be profile dependant, so the alarm is different if in meeting profile and in normal profile. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Idea: Optimal noisy vibrator
When the phone is lying on a table it may be interesting to get the most noise from the vibrator as possible. By changing the frequency of the vibrator and analysing the sound level on the microphone the phone can determine with frequency is most noisy for vibrating on this surface. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Peer Discovery
On 12/11/06, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/8/06, Colin Curtin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Put two Neos in a room with no cell service - can they find each other? Even with service, if nobody punches in 'codes' on each? Oh, if only it had bluetooth. If the speaker could output frequencies above ~22kHz, and the microphone sampling rate could be tweaked high enough.. you may be able to build a primative close-range comm protocol with that? Well, I still remember modems that used acoustic couplers. So it might be a solution to just use old modem technology (300 baud anyone?) for transmitting small files from Neo to Neo. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shiny geek toy?
On 12/7/06, Christopher Heiny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly is it that we want OpenMoko to be? Do we really want a shiny geek toy? Something that is super cool and technologically advanced, but only nerds will want to hack on? Or should we be working toward a solid OpenSource platform that will encourage other phone manufacturers to build on it and in turn give their work back to the community? I think it is possible to do both. To take a recently discussed example: an FPGA is really super cool and flexible and you can do just about anything with one. But the downside is that it is HARD to do that stuff. Even if you, personally, find VHDL or Verilog to be easy to work with and understand, the average engineer working at someplace like Samsung or Nokia (or wherever) will not have the same skills you do. Sorry, I do not quite understand you there. It sounds as if you think the _only_ way to program a FPGA is through VHDL or Verilog. One of the things you can put on a FPGA is a generic microprocessor (e.g. a PowerPC or SPARC). You can then program the processor as you normally do. In fact I would expect this approach: Use some of the FPGA for a generic microprocessor (e.g. handling the UI and phonebook) and only use the rest of the FPGA for compute intensive operations (e.g. software radio, video decoding). Please check out General Purpose, Low Power Supercomputing Using Reconfiguration http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4969729965240981475 It really opened my eyes to what might be possible. Additionally, it takes time (lots of time) even for skilled engineers to design, implement, and debug new features for FPGAs. Agreed. But most of the user facing functionality would be in the generic microprocessor. Time to market is critical for most phone manufacturers, especially in countries such as Korea where product lifetimes are often measured in months. This argument is exactly why I think a FPGA is the right way to go: My phone does not do WiFi, but I would find it tremendously useful if I could install WiFi just by installing software. With FPGA you open the possibility to upgrade the phone with functionality that would otherwise require a new hardware. Five of the critical enablers to this are: - rock solid reliablity. Anything in the phone should just work, and it must do it every time. By stripping down the FPGA to just include GSM and a generic microprocessor as default, I think that would be doable. - easy to customize or extend. Not just by VHDL aces and Perl wizards, but by the average C/C++/Java programmer two years out of university. His boss is going to choose a platform that plays to his skills (or lack thereof). I whole heartedly agree. With the generic microprocessor included on the FPGA this can achieve both goals. - support fast development. That young coder in the previous bullet is going to be under a LOT of time pressure. His boss is going to choose the platform that he feels will best help him meet schedule, and will see C++ and Java as enablers, VHDL and Perl as barriers. That depends on what you are trying to develop. If you are trying to develop video decoding or software radio you might limited by processing power. This limit might be moved with FPGA. But again: I do not see any reason why you need to make a choice between VHDL and Java when you can have both. I do not see FPGA as realistic for neither v1 nor v2. But for v3 it just might be a possibility. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FPGA? [scanned]
On 12/6/06, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But even if this is not possible getting a FPGA out to the masses, I would think would make a lot of difference. Especially after seeing: General Purpose, Low Power Supercomputing Using Reconfiguration http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4969729965240981475 I have no idea if the power consumption is prohibitive - I will expect others on the list can enlighten us on that. On http://www.altera.com/products/devices/cyclone2/features/power/cy2-power.html I found: 0.1-0.4 W. To me that sound pretty small. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FPGA
On 12/6/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/5/06, Markus Stehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you think about giving the Neo1973 a FPGA? I was thinking more about this last night. My first reaction was great, but as someone else posted, what do you get for the increased cost, besides speed? I am still wondering if the cost is going to be that high: If we can emulate more of the existing components in the FPGA then we will save some cost on these. Your observation of the serial port is just one example. What hardware peripherals would you add, if you had this options? USB 2.0? That second SIM card? Other FLASH card interfaces? I2C, SPI, One-Wire? VGA out (although I suspect it would require too big an FPGA)? OpenCores already have one: http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/vga_lcd/overview Bluetooth? Game device interfaces? I welcome your feedback. A thing to take into account: All the ideas does not have to fit on a FPGA. You can reprogram the FPGA in about 10 ms. So you can have different sets of devices. So four sets of functionality you do not use at the same time, say, * GPS+GSM * video-decoder * WiFi+GPS * Ogg/Vorbis-encoder You cannot use them simultaneously, but you can change set in 10 ms. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/29/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're still deciding on how open we can be with the hardware. Please keep in mind this is a legal mine field. Every single component we use (expert perhaps the CPU) needs an NDA just to read the datasheet. I would love to see open hardware. But this is _far_ more difficult that open software. ...we're working on it though. As a non-hardware engineer I have been facinated by www.opencores.org. Can you say if you have looked at using their modules? /Ole (Who would go for version 1 if there is a trade-up option. Otherwise wait for version 2). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ideas for mobile phone
One more: Voice and picture based email and address book. With no keyboard it is awkward to enter text. It is easier to select a contact and speak a message. Also illiterate people cannot read. However, they can speak and recognize faces. Current software makes it hard for these people to send email as you often have to write an email-address without error and write or read the email. Using phone or video phone may not be feasable if the internet connection is bad. Solution: Emails should be sent as voice and a photo should be attached to the address book. Commonly used functions should be illustrated by clear pictograms. When a sender wants to send an email he presses the icon 'new mail'. Then he selects the receiver from a list of photos in his addressbook. Then he can optionally have is current photo taken with a web cam and attached to a business card in each email; or he han use an existing picture. Then he clicks 'start' and talks to the microphone. Clicking 'end' will play back his message. Clicking 'send' will it to the recipient. When the email is received it is presented in a list of received emails. The list shows the face of the sender (either the face in the current email or - if none present - the face from the address book) and possibly a subject. Clicking the email will open it, play it and possbly add it to the address book. When bandwidth will allow even small films can be sent. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko - GPL?
On 11/29/06, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/29/06 9:18 PM, Ole Tange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /Ole (Who would go for version 1 if there is a trade-up option. Otherwise wait for version 2). A trade up option is interesting idea. What exactly do you have in mind? Optimal for me: Pay USD 350 for v1. When v2 is out: Return v1 and get a deduction of the price of USD 350. But I will assume that this will not work for you: The returned v1s are probably worthless to you. So a better way might be to include a voucher with a serial number in the v1 package. The voucher will give me a discount of 50% if I buy v2. The serial number is important as you do not want to give the discount to everyone who happens to know someone who has a v1. I might accept a lower discount, but if the discount is less than 30% I personally would prefer to wait for v2. Come to think of it: You should always value your customers and give them incentive to buy more from you. So a trade up might apply to the v2-v3 transition as well. /Ole ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
