Re: multi-tutch?
2008/5/28 Jan Stöckel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hey given pro-linux.de (german news site)is right, MPX http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/ is now a part of Xorg, and I can remember that the display of the freerunner was ready for multituch, so coud it be possible that the freerunner/openmoko is capable of multituch within might a year ? (I am aware that that isnt prioryty it woud just be nice to know) Or I am completly wrong and it isn`t possible ? Jan Hi Jan, I don't believe the screen used for FreeRunner can resolve multi touch. Unfortunately it's a hardware issue not a software one. From the hardware page of the wiki http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware It's a resistance type touch sensor. -Pete ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: (no subject)
2008/4/24 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yeah. I recently bought a laptop. It came with Vista. When I booted it I discovered a bluescreen which is a bug because now the bgcolour should be red. Anyway, no my Gentoo is running and everything works nice:) Blue screen indicates that windows has reached it's most stable state. Nothing will go worng from there. Of course it does rather limit what you can do now... -Peter ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time
* No terminal. Ugh. Do you really need a terminal app on a phone? Most phones do not have a term on them. besides, it is opensource, so anyone could get one working. Any takers? I guess most/all here are geeks. I have to admit that the first thing I want to know before buying a new smart phone is can I use a terminal/ssh on it. pocket putty was a blessing. But I hope much better things will come from this project. Maybe I will try to carve out some time in December... I'm guessing anyone into Linux is going to want this though :) -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Please welcome Graeme Gregory
Welcome Greg! good luck! BTW my name is Graeme, if you call me Greg Ill never know who you are talking to :-) Graeme He's got two first names! Sorry Graeme - couldn't resist. I'm sure that is an old one for you though... Welcome to the OM team! -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD
Hi Ian, I have to admit I have not had time to out this on my SD card yet but I have booted it from the neo normally. On 27/09/2007, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So to recap what I've tried, that doesn't work to get Qtopia on my SD card and boot from SD: I went to http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php and downloaded the three files under Qtopia for the Neo1973 Downloads, and unpacked them onto a 2GB microSD card, formatted as ext3: # mount /dev/sdc1 /media/sdcard # tar -C /media/sdcard -zxvf \ /path/to/qtopia/ficgta01-qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz # tar -C /media/sdcard -zxvf \ /path/to/qtopia/arm920t-eabi-ficgta01-toolchain.tgz # tar -C /media/sdcard/boot/ -xzvf \ /path/to/qtopia/qtopia-4.3.0-preview-neo-flash.tgz ... the last step of course placed the uImage file and the rootfs file into the SD card's /boot/ folder (there's no documentation anywhere that describes where else to place these, so I was guessing as I went) Looks like your problem is that you do not need the developer rootfs or the toolchain to boot into qtopia from the sd card. Inside /path/to/qtopia/qtopia-4.3.0-preview-neo-flash.tgz as you noted is the rootfs and the uImage. These are the only two you need. uImage in /boot/ and rootfs in / If I have time tonight I will confirm this for you. always too busy with work... -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?
On 16/08/07, Ashok Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/16/07, Steve Seltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ashok Kumar wrote: Can anyone tell me what are the changes between GTA1 and GTA2? Which version is going to be shipped as user release in september? It's on the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison What is that sound column in that site? What sound they are talking about? Is that the sound in calls? why GTA2 supports only mono? It is standard for telephone systems to only provide mono sound for calls. I believe the reference here to stereo and mono is in regard to the playing media via the built in speakers etc. I think the second internal speaker was sacrificed to make room for other goodies or was considered un necessary given how close the speakers are together. Stereo will still be available with headphones and other headsets where supported by the headset. -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Phase 1 sales / order process / misconception
On 07/08/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all! I tried to stay out of this entire discussion (like most non-technical discussions) for a long time. But I think there is just a big misconception of how and what at least certain people percieve and what is actually going on. First of all, OpenMoko is a very small company. We have 19 full-time employees in Taipei, plus something like seven external people, mostly developers, not all of them full time. Now think about this. 19 people to do everything, from sales through software RD, distribution, logistics, webshop, system administration, handling all external inquiries, business development, and so on. This does not include the hardware RD team inside FIC Mobility, which is smaller than OpenMoko. Sounds like a herculean task - I'll continue to wait quietly. Keep up the good work. -Pete Everybody in that team works overtime, for many months - even way before starting the 'phase 1' sales. So starting to sell those developer previews is something that drains every last resource that we have (and don't have). So please remember, this is an extremely small team, everyone doing the best he can, trying to create a completely new class of mobile device. Starting to sell those units to _interested developers_ who want to help building this device is something that puts a lot of additional load on us. The community has been pressing us to release those devices as early as possible, and that's what we did (after many mostly hardware RD delays). So if you have any kind of inquiry, remember that you are one of more than 1000 other people who ordered in a very short timeframe. It's almost impossible to give any reasonable response. And if every of those 1000 people inquire on the status of their order every day, then we don't get anything done (especially not processing the actual orders) but to respond to those status inquiries. I know this is a very insatisfactory situation. But please step back for a minute and think about this consumer-like attitude of complaints like oh, you don't have the business process to handle orders. Yes, we don't have the business process. Yes, we don't have the people and/or resources. But: Yes, we're still doing it. Selling unfinished products to interested developers. Developers who have an idea how difficult this project is, and who want to help us moving forward with this project. But please don't think you're dealing with a multi-billion international company with a sales and customer support department. You are dealing with a bunch of [mostly technical] people who have a strange idea about what kind of difference they could achieve in the world of mobile devices. We have something like 700 of your inquiries that nobody hasn't even had a time to look at yet. I'm not even talking about the 800 inquiries that are somewhere being processed and have at least received one response. Oh, and don't think that hiring more people will help. Think about how long it takes for any new person to understand the process, and how much time you need to spend to teach them. The outcome would be visible at a time that phase-1 for GTA01 has long been finished. We're crazy because we're trying to do the impossible, with an impossibly small amount of resources, and an impossibly small team. So please understand that it's also impossible for us to respond to individual inquiries. You can place an order, you will get an order confirmation. We charge the credit card, you will get a confirmation that the payment has received. And you will get another message as soon as your shipping has been made. You can cancel at any point in time before the item is shipped by mailing CANCEL on an otherwise empty line to your ticket. But please don't try to change addresses, inquire about the status (which is clear based on the last mail you received), change the product quantity, credit card number, or whatever. Any such inquiry is bound to be responded in a way longer than acceptable timeframe, and will probably not have a satisfactory answer anyway, plus it will delay everythign else. Yes, this is no industry standard customer care. But hell, we are selling to developers inside our own community, not to end-users !?! Thanks for your understanding. -- - Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://openmoko.org/ Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Order related inquiries
Thanks for the update. I'll keep playing in software for a little while longer ;) -Pete p.s. sorry about pm. brain not working... On 24/07/07, William Lai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, We`re getting a lot of customer inquiries with regards to order / payment processing. If you already received a 'Your credit card has been charged' notification from RT than I guess this doesn`t concern you, your phones will be shipped promptly. Here are some notes for those who have not yet received a response: 1) If you did not reply with a YES_I_DO to our 'Developer Release' confirmation request, your order will not be processed. 2) We are only processing orders for the first batch of available phones. If you replied with a YES_I_DO and still haven`t heard from us, this means that your order will be shipped from a second batch of phones that will arrive in Fremont, CA, next week. 3) If you ordered an ORANGE phone, this will also be shipped from the second batch of phones arriving next week. No one is being left behind. We have phones for everyone. Hope this helps, OpenMoko Orders Team ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: the keyboard on the competition
On 28/06/07, Fabien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/28/07, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: someone on this list had a similar idea for enlarging number keys i think, they would appear or resize depending on context iirc? http://www.apple.com/iphone/usingiphone/keyboard_large.html That's shiny and beautiful, but of limited use: the key becomes bigger *after* it's been hit, too late to help the user aiming. Well, actually it's still got a practical use: it helps notice when one hits the wrong key (I guess no human being could type without looking at the keyboard on an iphone). This immediately made me think of enlarging keys on a predictive basis. Not sure it is that useful but it was an amusing thought. -Pete A more interesting track would be some sort of transparent full-screen input device: something that lets you see your text, but also lets you use the whole touch surface to type more accurately. Besides, that would be one of the extremely few cases where transparency effects improve usability instead of hurting it :) If you want to go further, you can combine fullscreen-ness with motions, instead of simply touches, thus augmenting the number of immediately accessible symbols, or reducing the required level of accuracy. There was a startup, a couple of years ago, which produced a very cool (soft or hard) input device, based on a 3x3 grid, which was fast, mnemotechnically friendly and easy to implement. Unfortunately, they're out of business, I can't remember their name and they aren't listed on the openmoko wiki. If anyone has a better memory... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Minor correction
I thought that was a little strange at the time, makes more sense having 2 in the Advance and little sense with 2 in the basic ;) -Pete On 28/06/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Community, Copy and paste was working too well last night. The Neo Base kit has one (1) MicroSD card. Only the Neo Advanced kit has two. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks again for your great encouragement! -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rough seas
I'm really sorry such a long silence on my end. Internally, I've been involved in changes that are so big and so tiring, that I really don't fall asleep anymore. I just go home and pass out. Quite often still in my work cloths. Without heroic efforts like this you'd have little to look back on and feel proud of! So please wish us luck. We're just about at the tipping point. Good luck to you all and keep up the good work. -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to buy/order Neo1973
On 18/06/07, Tuan TRINH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I live in Paris, and I would like to order two Neo1973 for my hacking. Where and How can I order/buy Neo1973? Please advise me. Unfortunately they are not available yet. There is a buying interest list but it is only indicative. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List The wiki also contains plenty of other useful information. Hopefully not long now... -Pete Thank you, Tuan TRINH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Concern for usability and ergonomics
On 12/06/07, Michele Manzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I don't like this statement at all. Don't get me wrong, I can guess (some of) the reasons behind the plain words. But then I wonder whether there is really any transparency in the development of Neo/OpenMoko? What does it mean, being silent and talking in riddles seemingly for our own benefit? What about the collaborative FOSS effort, community involvement, etc? Br Michele I agree entirely regarding transparency etc. but there are two distinct problems here. FIC's responsibility to their employees and FIC's commitment to Neo/Openmoko. Re-allocation in large companies can be tricky and stressful for everyone involved if not handled properly. I imagine Sean is working hard to get everything he feels he needs to really pick up the pace on the Neo hardware. That said, given that we accept the Neo hardware is not vapourware, the community has plenty to be getting on with in terms of Openmoko. Lets keep faith in the passion that Sean has shown so far and keep providing encouragement for the core team. -Pete Good things come to those who wait :) -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Sean Moss-Pultz Inviato: lunedì 11 giugno 2007 19.01 A: Miguel A. Torres Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics [snip] Believe me when I say that we are working on new stuff that will address these issues. I have been quiet for the past few months because of some major internal re-allocations and new events. Within about a month we should be more or less finished and emerge with far more focus and resources. Until then, please accept my sincere apology for not being able to keep up with all your comments and questions. Internally all my time and energy is being used now. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Moko Themes
UI for these different screen resolutions and potentially form factors is going to be more then a case of image resizing. It will be whole different layouts. I am quickly coming round to the idea of a near complete separation of GUI from application. It is the only way to really present the same apps on the different Openmoko hardware platforms. At the same time I am not convince that html is the way to go. What are the options here? -Pete On 12/06/07, Frank Coenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Making your icons/panels/butons in svg-format and make a shell-script that (using imagemagick for example) converts all of them to the requered resolution in png. It shouldn't be the worry of the designer in what resolution use intend to use OpenMoko.The program/GTK should take care of that. On 6/12/07, Luit van Drongelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the first theme concern should be different resolutions. Currently there's just a VGA theme, but QVGA and WQVGA (i guess... 480x272 anyways) for future phones, and non-FIC phones. (most phones and PDAs are QVGA). At least I'd like to see that come soon. -- LuitvD On 6/12/07, Jon Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:19 -0500, Tim Shannon wrote: I know that there are going to be themes for the OpenMoko interface, but I'm just wondering if there is anyone who has started working on alternate themes? I think I'd like to take a crack at it, and I was curious if anyone has had any start yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I haven't, but OpenMoko team and I have discussed how the main theme is going to be CC BY-SA licensed. It would be great to get other interfaces licensed under CC BY or BY-SA tooo! Jon -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Hold on chaps. Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In fact in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for it! So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run linux or collect dust. heckleGet to the point!/heckle Well, if your phone economy is anything like the UK stop waiting - go get a new phone and a new contract ASAP. It will be free and you will be paying for the neo unsubsidised whichever way you work it. That is exactly what I did. However, I will also be buying P1 hardware and P2 hardware. I believe that phones can be better then WM and intend to help make sure that openmoko is a step in the right direction. Ryan, with any luck you'll be able to get one on a subsidised contract within 2 years. Also, when I get P2 hardware I'd likely be happy to ship the P1 over to you ;) On 06/06/07, Ryan Prior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: R: Some thoughts about iphone openmoko
I've had a whole series of Sony-Ericsson phones. Ignoring the smart phones for a second there has been a real progression and positive trend in their UI's. They certainly have taken on board user feedback. All of my issues with the K750i were gone in the W880i - right down to making Text the default type of message instead of MMS. With the right level of feedback and control we should really be able to leverage the community here. But with openmoko being the sort of project that it is a benevolent dictator will be required to to really focus the default UI while hopefully there will be a lot of projects in the wild to work with. Essentially choice for the mass market isn't really an option. It's mainly for people willing to tinker, even if that just means installing a few extra packages. The default UI will need to be well led. -Pete On 06/06/07, Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/6/6, Fabien [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To me, GUI usability is probably the most prominent factor of success in a product when it comes to sales. To me, it ought to be, but facts prove that it isn't: I've almost never heard a marketing speech focused on this (except for iPhone); and if it were considered critical, I can't believe phone makers couldn't do a bit better than that. Nokia devices are somekind of reference in usability studies, and Nokia marketing people always talk about that. Don't underestimate the power of doing usability studies in handheld devices to success! -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://moblibertad.blogspot.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: First impressions of Neo1973
Nice Jose, I added the Sidekick3 dimensions... http://www.sizeasy.com/page/comp/1842 -Pete On 16/05/07, Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've just done a fast sizeasy comparison: http://www.sizeasy.com/page/comp/1840 And, yes, the Neo1973 is big! 2007/5/16, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 15 May 2007 22:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 15 May 2007, Tigran Zakoyan wrote: Jason Elwell wrote: I dont know whats more sad... You creating a paperdoll of an OpenMoko, or the fact that I downloaded it and made one for myself! LOL! Me too :) BTW, can't agree 1973 is too big. It just fits the size of my QTEKs110, which size's been really handy for me two years I use it. Not to mention the difference in functionality :) Me three. Next to my Sidekick, the Neo is petite. It's all relative. M Could you, or someone who just happens to have both, post a picture containing them side by side and edge on for comparison? I figured it would be about the same dimensionally (HxWxD) as the sidekick. Is it smaller? Thinner? Wider? Shorter? --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.net msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko light web server
Hopefully not wading in half cocked here but... AFAIK non of the major web browsers implement threading for their javascript engines, or at least not within a single window. Hence when your asynchronous call returns it does not get executed until the current javascript thread terminates. Obviously this is unacceptable on the desktop but in terms of web apps it seems the right thing to do. That said javascript should only be used to enable the interface - we shouldn't be using it for any long execution stuff. -Pete On 17/04/07, Tim Newsom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 3:54, Alexander E Genaud wrote: Tim, I believe Microsoft created the non-standard XMLHttpRequest object through Active X around IE 5 but it has become something of a standard implemented by Firefox, Safari/Konquerer, Opera, and perhaps others. I've been using a nice wrapper, Sarissa, successfully for a few years in many environments. http://dev.abiss.gr/sarissa/ I believe the asynchronous flag is implemented in those major browsers. Alternatively, you can create an HttpConnection class with it's own timeout, abort, polling (4K), threading, etc. While the details are different across browsers, it seems that threads never context switches unless explicitly asked to do so (such as Timeouts and alert dialogs). In other words, a ring might come in, but if you are calculating the Fibonacci numbers to the umpteenth power, the ring thread probably won't alert you in good time. I believe that is true regardless of the async flag. Alex Alex, Hmm, that's interesting... It seems like a poor implementation if you can't guarantee that the event will fire asynchronously. Why offer it at all? Strange. --Tim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Flash Player 9 on OpenMoko?
On 22/03/07, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2007.03.22, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am obviously not against open source, but this religious stuff is like the Taliban. Hank, I think you just invoked Godwin's Law 2.0. -- Dossy Hehe, that's my favourite. Zero to Godwin's Law in a few hours. Brilliant. It's the only reason I walk in the smoke chasing the flames... -Pete p.s. Sorry for the pm Dossy. It's early and I've not connected my caffeine drip yet... -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: up-to-date business card
Interesting stuff, I checked the draft for 1.1 out: http://openid.net/specs/openid-simple-registration-extension-1_1-01.html As well as the main authentication specification. Also I signed up to an IdP and signed up to the OpenID Wiki as a test. Whilst OpenID is lovely stuff it does not at the moment seem appropriate for use in the way we intend. Which is pretty much what I expected in the first place. You have to authenticate every time you go to a site thereby proving your identity. If this authentication is successful then the IdP sends the authorised personal information back to the site you are logging into. So the bit that clashes with what we require is the regular user interaction. It would be nice to have an automated extension that allows a request for updated information from one verifiable OpenID to another. E.G. http://monkeyA.com (A) --- logs into his OpenID server and allows http://monkeyB.com (B) to see one of his personas. B --- adds A to his contacts. B's Pim application then contacts A's OpenID server for details A's OpenID server contacts B's OpenID server requiring B to authenticate. Now that A's OpenID server has authenticated B it sends A's persona to B's Pim application. I'm pretty sure there is no facility for this now. It would need to have security aspects checked and likely be an extension to the OpenID server. Initially it seems reasonable that if B can be authenticated and A has agreed to share a persona... Do you think this is worth pursuing with the people at OpenID? -Pete On 15/03/07, Pius A. Uzamere II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, The latest OpenID spec provides for this using the Simple Registration (SReg) extension. This functionality is optional for consumers and servers to implement. See http://openid.net/specs/openid-simple-registration-extension-1_0.html#response_formatfor more information. Cheers, Pius On 3/15/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree on the OpenID thing. I just got my OpenID created a couple of weeks ago. It's nice not relying on any one company to store you information. Does the OpenID spec allow for storing additional information besides just your password? -Steven On 3/15/07, Peter A Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be ideal trying to tie this in with OpenID authentication. I've not really had time to think this through fully but basically you would be replacing the one big store (Plaxo) with a distributed model. I was about to flesh that out a little but I think everyone can see where I am going. PIM app on phone updates contact info when required / when cheap connection is available. I need to research OpenID a bit more but I'm thinking this may be a no go because you'd probably need to re authenticate to update information. Seems my brain is not really working yet this morning. I think I need more information and less speculation. I leave this as food for thought... -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: up-to-date business card
It would be ideal trying to tie this in with OpenID authentication. I've not really had time to think this through fully but basically you would be replacing the one big store (Plaxo) with a distributed model. I was about to flesh that out a little but I think everyone can see where I am going. PIM app on phone updates contact info when required / when cheap connection is available. I need to research OpenID a bit more but I'm thinking this may be a no go because you'd probably need to re authenticate to update information. Seems my brain is not really working yet this morning. I think I need more information and less speculation. I leave this as food for thought... -Pete On 15/03/07, Matthew S. Hamrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah... it's easy to sound snarky on mailing lists. I too was not trying to be sarcastic, but rereading my post, it looks like I was trying to dis Plaxo. Nothing of the sort. I too have friends who use it and love it. But for the reasons I listed, it's not really for me. There's absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be a Meishi client for WinCE, Symbian or even J2ME/iTron. Or even some way to import/export to/from Plaxo/Exchange/Mac Address Book/etc. With respect to the vCard bursting... yeah... but it's got to start somewhere. I was planning on releasing my code and specs as open source, so I would think that if enough people thought it was a good idea, some of the major handset vendors would start integrating it. -Cheers -Matt H. On Mar 14, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Jonathon Suggs wrote: Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Yes... if you have a Blackberry, Treo or HTC phone, run Windows and don't mind keeping your data on Plaxo's servers, Plaxo is indeed a good solution. Still... I'm fairly certain that most GSM phones can't make the data call to the Plaxo servers _while_ they are on a voice call with someone else. The vCard bursting concept moves data directly from one phone to another without third party involvement. And it does is as part of the session created when you're talking with someone else. i.e. - you don't have to hang up the phone to receive burst vCards. Couple of thoughts. First, this is an open platform for you to create whatever you want. So go ahead and knock yourself out making this (actually not mean to be as sarcastic as it sounds). Second, this is an open platform so you can either port the Blackberry, Treo, WinMo app to OpenMoko. I don't use Plaxo, but I know people who do and like it (thought/ thinking about trying it). For ideas/apps that are a closed loop between you and your data feel free to come up with brand new protocols for the communication. However, don't expect it to have wide adoption. Even if OpenMoko takes off, it isn't going to become prevalent overnight. So to have the ability to interoperate with Blackberrys, Tres, WinMo PPCs (which make up a decent percentage of the [smart]phone population) you are going to have to be able to speak a common language. vCards are pretty standard, so the idea does have some merit (not that my blessing is a requirement). But unless most people are able to support vCard Bursting then you target audience is only as large as the OpenMoko install base. I for one am not really interested in using a protocol with such a limited user base, although it is an interesting concept. Plaxo does what it does well. I *somewhat* understand your not wanting your personal data to be stored on someone elses servers, but creating new protocols for data transmission is probably not the best way to go about obtaining privacy/whatever. This isn't meant to be a derogatory post, but I would prefer to be able to communicate with a broad range of people running a broad range of devices. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Windows Mobile on Neo?
Don't be worried. All the stuff you do within VMware on linux will stay there. Your MacBook is not in danger ;) -Pete On 13/02/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, I'm just being too lazy. Im pretty scared about this OE thing because I am running Linux on VMWare Beta, on my brand new 17 MacBook Pro...Should I be worried? -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fake it at FOSDEM
I'm wondering what sort of response I'll get if I leave this on my desk at work - or even try to take a call on it. If they didn't think I was mad before... -Pete On 09/02/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm printing it now, if for no other reason than it'll make me smile! Now where did I put that craft knife? Al - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Possibilities for commercial software?
Can I call you a 'pirate' if you do share his fridge? Joking aside I think that you may have missed the point here. When I write an app for OpenMoko _if_ I decided to ask for money for that app I'm the sort of guy who wouldn't mind if someone else shared it with friends, modified the code etc. Hopefully they will send changes back to me. I believe the idea being put forward is to offer a market place where free software can be sold on the basis that a user would like to express their gratitude and that hopefully the marketplace will also be the easiest way to get hold of an application. You could in many ways consider the market place to have failed if it is easier for joe blogs user to get the software from another source. I am, obviously, not refering to proprietary software. If you want to sell that through the market place then it should be just as easy. if you want drm to lock down your app then I don't want that in any way to impact ease of use of the market place - deal with that yourself. I am guessing that people more idealistic or eloquent then I will explain the moral dilema of providing proprietary software, and supporting it. I am not sure it's something that needs to get flamed here. In summary: The market place should be so simple to use that is always the easiest and quickest place for average users to get hold of apps. -Pete On 26/01/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, whilst all software is free - rent isn't (oh and that nasty habit of eating every 6-8 hours is a real bitch as well). Of course there will be commercial software available for the OpenMoko community. And once a developer puts a price on an application, should you 'share' or 'unauthorise copy' an application then you are a pirate. Unless of course you don't mind me coming over and 'sharing' your refrigerator. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: Friday, 26 January 2007 10:55 AM To: OpenMoko Subject: Re: Possibilities for commercial software? On 26/01/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two guys I know invested time into porting their game from PalmOS to phones. It didn't sell at all but was pirated quite a lot. Proprietary software developers often refer to unauthorised copying as piracy. This terms implies that copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. If you don't believe that sharing is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word piracy to describe it. There are neutral terms, like unauthorized copying, and positive terms like sharing with friends. That's why I think that a central official marketplace with fair rates for developers would be a good idea. I think that selling free software is a great idea, and totally support a central official marketplace that allows developers to recieve money for their great work. I do not think that proprietary software should be allowed though, because it contradicts the spirit of free your phone -- Regards, Dave ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu and images.
Side note final release 9/11 Isn't that a poorly chosen date... Whatever You do it will piss someone off. ...Dons flame retardent suit... We can't let terror rule our lives ...Flees stage left... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reactions From Other People to News of OpenMoko
Hi Bryan, That's quite interesting feedback. I have only really brought this subject up with developer mates and one gadgetophile. The heavily windows leaning developers have expressed a cool enthusiasm but that will warm when they can see a product and get an idea for the sort of apps that are being developed. All of them without exception have been infuriated by their locked down win mobile 5 phones when they have tried to customise or even make the most basic layout changes. One of the more adventurous has gone as far as flashing various bits of firmware at reasonable risk to achieve these results. They are certainly interested in the openness aspects but only really have reservations about windows(read exchange etc) compatibility. I reckon I'll get a few developer converts for the phone if not to a desktop flavour of linux. From what you've said I think it would be fair to predict a uniform indifference to the phone from non developers since they are already bombarded daily by a deluge of new must have handsets. Once we reach general availability and hopefully have a few more fun apps put together I think that plenty more people can be swayed. With some of the ease of use ideas floated here, given that the hardware and software implementation live up to the hype, we should be able to hit quite a reasonable size target market. However, any serious market penetration in the UK is going to depend on carrier subsidy since nearly all upgrades here are free/low cost + contract - even on relatively cheap contracts. If Sean and the team can make that a reality it certainly puts us on a level playing field price wise allowing us to push the obvious advantages ;) I found the truly negatively-excited person pretted amusing actually since I've had entirely the opposite experience of Windows/Linux with high end cards, some games even get a better FPS in linux. Guess that's the downside of such a diverse hardware eco system. Always going to be tough to put a really stable system together. Anyone who's been running an acer laptop with one of the newer ATI graphics cards must know what I'm talking about because the gcard takes win xp down all the time... -Pete On 25/01/07, Bryan Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I've been talking up OpenMoko to everyone I know, and I felt like there may be some people around here who would be interested in the reactions I've gotten. The main camps are as you would expect: positively-excited, negatively-excited, and indifferent. What I think is interesting, is why people put themselves in those camps. Surprisingly, few of the positively-excited people I've recruited so far are coders. They're actually more interested in the fact that it's open, and not controlled by some faceless corporation. They're excited that they won't have to be stuck with Nokia's/Motorolla's/etc. crappy software and forced upgrade path. As I'm in the U.S., they're also surprised and excited to hear that it's naturally unlocked so they can choose whatever provider they want. I did have one person who ended up positively-excited, but hesitated briefly before that. I had been talking up the freedom to tinker line, and they got worried that you would *have* to be a tinkerer to even get the phone working. Assuring them of out-of-the-box functionality and the OpenMoko Certified download center was crucial. Also surprisingly, the one truly negatively-excited person I met said exactly this, Great, so I'll have a phone that just randomly crashes for no reason. I know that he has run Red Hat Linux, and codes for a living. But, he has had poor experience with linux stability - specifically around crappy drivers for new graphics accelerators. So, just as a warning, mentioning linux in an OpenMoko discussion will not automatically win you friends. Finally, by far the largest camp is the indifferent class. Many people are quick to ask, Why would you want an open source phone? Answers of the, So I know exactly what my phone is doing at all times - no secrets, variety typically get you labeled paranoid. Answers of the, Because I will be able to modify absolutely anything about it, yield further questions to which further answers like, I don't know, but *something*, are not enough. And, there's always the, Well, I'm perfectly happy with what I have now, people. My feeling is that these people won't be convinced until there's considerable buzz from many people who have actually tried OpenMoko and like some specific feature about it. Has anyone else had a different variety of reactions? -Bryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
