Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/31/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My point is starting this topic was to bring attention to the fact that probably 500 to 1000 potential developers were likely to get saddled with GTA01 phones right before the GTA02s were released and that FIC staff were not providing sufficient information about likely delivery dates. We are I really wish we could give more accurate timing information. But please understand that what you're seeing is a product being built from scratch. We're not using reference designs. We're not using 3rd party [...] Product development is messy. There are literally hundreds of components in this device, all needing to be sourced with different lead times from different vendors. If SDRAM becomes scarce, we suffer. If a vendor has yield problems, so we do we. Hi Sean. The opensource software development process is wonderful in its transparency - I think thats where a lot of the frustration about the hardware process is coming from. Your reply email gives no new information about the GTA02. Supply chain delays can delay the product, that makes sense, but surely there is information about what is expected to happen? How about saying what the production plans are? Ive read on this list both October 07 and January 08 as estimated GTA02 completion dates. The readership is left to make their best guess based on essentially rumors. Is it a separate electrical engineering team that is designing the GTA01/02 inside FIC and that is partly why the software devs are in the dark? The GTA01 is in production and its the same story. There has been mention of 'another batch' on Sep 20th, but again no announcements. How about stating 'X GTA01s are available for sale. Y GTA01s are in production with an estimated completion date of Z' and 'On date D1 we expect to stop making new GTA01s and start making GTA02s'. That would be something to chew on, knowing full well that estimates change and surprises happen. Thanks, Don ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Don Park wrote: On 8/31/07, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My point is starting this topic was to bring attention to the fact that probably 500 to 1000 potential developers were likely to get saddled with GTA01 phones right before the GTA02s were released and that FIC staff were not providing sufficient information about likely delivery dates. We are I really wish we could give more accurate timing information. But please understand that what you're seeing is a product being built from scratch. We're not using reference designs. We're not using 3rd party but surely there is information about what is expected to happen? How about saying what the production plans are? Ive read on this list both October 07 and January 08 as estimated GTA02 completion dates. The readership is left to make their best guess based on essentially rumors. Is it a separate electrical engineering team that is designing the GTA01/02 inside FIC and that is partly why the software devs are in the dark? The GTA01 is in production and its the same story. There has been mention of 'another batch' on Sep 20th, but again no announcements. How about stating 'X GTA01s are available for sale. Y GTA01s are in production with an estimated completion date of Z' and 'On date D1 we expect to stop making new GTA01s and start making GTA02s'. That would be something to chew on, knowing full well that estimates change and surprises happen. Indeed. Knock off 5 days for shipping to end users, 5 days for FIC doing shipping stuff, 5 days for transit from HK to US, 5 days for production and we're getting pretty close to the 'volume production of GTA02 has to start today to get to paying devs in october' date already. Is there sufficient confidence in the current GTA02 rev to actually start volume production in the next week or so? If not, can you please tell us. Is it planned to distribute GTA02 to a select group of external testers first? Personally, I suspect that I've lost several potential dev-months of time for OM, simply as I have not been able to say to people who are very interested in this sort of stuff, and who I have seen coding on random 'cool' gadgets, that if they put down money now, they will get hardware in a week or so. (and in all of those cases, they've only really been interested in coding for a platform after actually getting their hands on the physical object.) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Hi Alan, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMHO, Your response here to Joe was uncalled for and frankly, rude. I also resent the implication that I and others are disgruntled whiners. While gentleman may agree or disagree, there is little to no call for this kind response to such a minor observation or suggestion. My point is starting this topic was to bring attention to the fact that probably 500 to 1000 potential developers were likely to get saddled with GTA01 phones right before the GTA02s were released and that FIC staff were not providing sufficient information about likely delivery dates. We are volunteers TRYING to put up our time and money to move this along, but due to understandable circumstances many of us are being left out. FIC should be more open about the schedules if they expect volunteers to contribute time and effort. It would also be quite understandable for a potential developer to be annoyed that he just payed for a GTA01 and the GTA02 come out within days. FIC should proactivly mitigate this possible scenario. I really wish we could give more accurate timing information. But please understand that what you're seeing is a product being built from scratch. We're not using reference designs. We're not using 3rd party software. We're doing this from scratch. And _very_ publicly. You can track on code and comments every day if you like. We don't hide anything. Bugs and all. Product development is messy. There are literally hundreds of components in this device, all needing to be sourced with different lead times from different vendors. If SDRAM becomes scarce, we suffer. If a vendor has yield problems, so we do we. I encourage you (and everyone else) to see this project for what it is -- a truly unique opportunity to take part in the development of an open phone. This is a personal dream of mine for years. Even though we've had our fair share of delays, I'm still incredibly excited about where we stand now. Your support, by buying hardware, or just making constructive comments, will allow us to grow and help change this industry. We're still small now, but we've got grand plans ;-) More on the future shape of the Neo... Another reason to square off the bottom is to make it stand up on a flat surface or MORE IMPORTANTLY, sit upright in an off-the-shelf bluetooth mini keyboard. You should not be restricted to landscape mode useage when off device keyboarding. Remember, were not just talking about a PHONE here, but portable microcomputing. Try to think more about the complexity of this device. I don't know of a single microcomputer that has 4 RF systems. FIC makes millions of computers a year. I can promise you that it's significantly easier for us to build a computer than a phone. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: Product development is messy. There are literally hundreds of components in this device, all needing to be sourced with different lead times from different vendors. If SDRAM becomes scarce, we suffer. If a vendor has yield problems, so we do we. I encourage you (and everyone else) to see this project for what it is -- a truly unique opportunity to take part in the development of an open phone. This is a personal dream of mine for years. Even though we've had our fair share of delays, I'm still incredibly excited about where we stand now. Your support, by buying hardware, or just making constructive comments, will allow us to grow and help change this industry. We're still small now, but we've got grand plans ;-) I worked in non-electronic consumer product development (many years ago) and even that's messy; I can just imagine the intricacies of trying to ship something with that many supplier dependencies when you don't have the supplier pull of somebody like Dell or Lenovo. Even though I'm not a linux kernel hacker, I'm glad to be part of this project in my own little way. If you just want to buy a phone that will work for you today, this is NOT (yet) the project for you; go to your corner telephone store. If you want to have a chance at changing the way the cell phone game works, maybe this is the project for you. But it will take time. Thanks to everybody at OpenMoko! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Nice reply. Sorry I started all this, technically, because I replied to his inquiry and he quote my reply in his email. Did I say anything wrong there? -Liane Your support, by buying hardware, or just making constructive comments, will allow us to grow and help change this industry. We're still small now, but we've got grand plans ;-) Try to think more about the complexity of this device. I don't know of a single microcomputer that has 4 RF systems. FIC makes millions of computers a year. I can promise you that it's significantly easier for us to build a computer than a phone. -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Hi, - On 8/31/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | If you just want to buy a phone that will | work for you today, this is NOT (yet) the project for you; \-- I think the OpenMoko team should write an article similar to the following: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm something like Neo1973 is NOT like other phones, and just use the article for future references. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/31/07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice reply. Sorry I started all this, technically, because I replied to his inquiry and he quote my reply in his email. Did I say anything wrong there? No problem. I find this thread quite interesting ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: I encourage you (and everyone else) to see this project for what it is -- a truly unique opportunity to take part in the development of an open phone. This is a personal dream of mine for years. Even though we've had our fair share of delays, I'm still incredibly excited about where we stand now. These are very true and wise words and my fear is that the community criticizing FIC without justification is going to risk closing doors. It is difficult enough to get Linux support from vendors and FIC do not need to hear the kind of rants which were encountered in this thread. My company intend to use a lot of these, therefore as a prospective customer/developer I dont want to hear rants against FIC as it send the wrong message. The community should learn not to bite the hand that feeds it. A true developer interested in development, will not parade a community with posts lambasting it's sponsor FIC. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Sean Thank you for taking the time to respond. I know how busy you are and your taking the time to address my comments is much appreciated. Your response reminded me of something once taught to me by a man I once worked for and much admired, Dr. Russ Turner, former CEO of United Space Alliance, now retired. He told me that when you have to withhold information from someone, be honest about it and always take the time to explain why it has to be withheld. Also, when you simply don't have the information, let the inquirer know when you likely will have it. This two simple rules go a long way toward keeping people working together effectively. If I abused the Community inbox with my frustrations, I sincerely apologise. I felt it necessary to call attention to the fact that the community was now split into two camps, the haves and have nots. As one of the have nots, I was frustrated with the inability to participate due to the limited quantities produced in the GTA01 runs, and even more frustrated with the lack of ANY date information on the GTA01 backorder run or even a Rough-Order-of-Magnitude date/month/quarter estimate for GTA02 availability. Also frustrating for me was that the Interest List in the wiki was not used in anyway to prioritize the orders taken and shipped. I strongly urge you to erect a GTA02 PRE-ORDER queue as soon as possible to help those left out of the GTA01 fun to get a spot in line for the GTA02. This will also help you better estimate the production demand. As for future Neo shaping... We all like and appreciate style and modernity, but form should always follow function and let's make sure we think carefully about ways that people are likely to want to use this device considering the amazing possibilities an open platform like this has. I would love to be able to whip out a blue tooth keyboard and post an entry to my much neglected blog when I have the opportunity. The freedom of Landscape or Portrait use should not be limited to handholding or to the availability of specially molded cradles. Thank you again for your hard work and please understand that I share your excitement for this project and sorry if some of my suppressed excitement got converted to frustration. Alan McSwain Original Message: - From: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:46:57 +0800 To: community@lists.openmoko.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order. Hi Alan, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMHO, Your response here to Joe was uncalled for and frankly, rude. I also resent the implication that I and others are disgruntled whiners. While gentleman may agree or disagree, there is little to no call for this kind response to such a minor observation or suggestion. My point is starting this topic was to bring attention to the fact that probably 500 to 1000 potential developers were likely to get saddled with GTA01 phones right before the GTA02s were released and that FIC staff were not providing sufficient information about likely delivery dates. We are volunteers TRYING to put up our time and money to move this along, but due to understandable circumstances many of us are being left out. FIC should be more open about the schedules if they expect volunteers to contribute time and effort. It would also be quite understandable for a potential developer to be annoyed that he just payed for a GTA01 and the GTA02 come out within days. FIC should proactivly mitigate this possible scenario. I really wish we could give more accurate timing information. But please understand that what you're seeing is a product being built from scratch. We're not using reference designs. We're not using 3rd party software. We're doing this from scratch. And _very_ publicly. You can track on code and comments every day if you like. We don't hide anything. Bugs and all. Product development is messy. There are literally hundreds of components in this device, all needing to be sourced with different lead times from different vendors. If SDRAM becomes scarce, we suffer. If a vendor has yield problems, so we do we. I encourage you (and everyone else) to see this project for what it is -- a truly unique opportunity to take part in the development of an open phone. This is a personal dream of mine for years. Even though we've had our fair share of delays, I'm still incredibly excited about where we stand now. Your support, by buying hardware, or just making constructive comments, will allow us to grow and help change this industry. We're still small now, but we've got grand plans ;-) More on the future shape of the Neo... Another reason to square off the bottom is to make it stand up on a flat surface or MORE IMPORTANTLY, sit upright in an off-the-shelf bluetooth mini keyboard. You should not be restricted to landscape mode useage when off device keyboarding. Remember, were not just talking about
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the post before you jump to conclusions. The suggestion was to make at least the bottom square. I did: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. The structure and order of your statements give the impression that your 'point in case' refers to your preference of symmetric designs. That example compares two symmetric shapes as if one were not. The square-bottomed Neo suggestion is still symmetric about two of the three axes as well :-P Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
I am not interested to disect the argument around axis of symmetry to help you prove your childish argument. If you are one of the disgruntled whiners about the Neo, then unsubscribe. Joe Friedrichsen wrote: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the post before you jump to conclusions. The suggestion was to make at least the bottom square. I did: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. The structure and order of your statements give the impression that your 'point in case' refers to your preference of symmetric designs. That example compares two symmetric shapes as if one were not. The square-bottomed Neo suggestion is still symmetric about two of the three axes as well :-P Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not interested to disect the argument around axis of symmetry to help you prove your childish argument. If you are one of the disgruntled whiners about the Neo, then unsubscribe. It appear the tongue-in-cheek humour was lost on you. Sorry to upset :-) Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] IMHO, Your response here to Joe was uncalled for and frankly, rude. I also resent the implication that I and others are disgruntled whiners. While gentleman may agree or disagree, there is little to no call for this kind response to such a minor observation or suggestion. My point is starting this topic was to bring attention to the fact that probably 500 to 1000 potential developers were likely to get saddled with GTA01 phones right before the GTA02s were released and that FIC staff were not providing sufficient information about likely delivery dates. We are volunteers TRYING to put up our time and money to move this along, but due to understandable circumstances many of us are being left out. FIC should be more open about the schedules if they expect volunteers to contribute time and effort. It would also be quite understandable for a potential developer to be annoyed that he just payed for a GTA01 and the GTA02 come out within days. FIC should proactivly mitigate this possible scenario. More on the future shape of the Neo... Another reason to square off the bottom is to make it stand up on a flat surface or MORE IMPORTANTLY, sit upright in an off-the-shelf bluetooth mini keyboard. You should not be restricted to landscape mode useage when off device keyboarding. Remember, were not just talking about a PHONE here, but portable microcomputing. Alan McSwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] Original Message: - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:25:08 -0400 To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order. If you are one of the disgruntled whiners about the Neo, then unsubscribe. Joe Friedrichsen wrote: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the post before you jump to conclusions. The suggestion was to make at least the bottom square. I did: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. The structure and order of your statements give the impression that your 'point in case' refers to your preference of symmetric designs. That example compares two symmetric shapes as if one were not. The square-bottomed Neo suggestion is still symmetric about two of the three axes as well :-P Joe mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMHO, Your response here to Joe was uncalled for and frankly, rude. I said much the same to this person, off-list, and got an equally churlish response. I see a spam filter coming with his email address on it... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/26/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why don't I get respect from a company I'm trying to support at my expense? I really want it and I could really use it. You are getting respect but not magic. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
There appear to be some disgruntled developers out there with the Neo1973 GTA01 sitting on the shelf. Please consider selling your development handset on eBay or similar so other, more active developers, without hardware can get one. Just my $0.02, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Seriously, with your already pissed off tone, I would never get this phone. I have one, and now wish I didnt get it. I am not looking for my money back or anything like that, I knew I could be buying a brick and was willing to take that risk.. But the fact is I just dont use it. I would think very early on the focus would be to reliably make and receive calls, which this phone cannot do. If I could use this to simply make and receive calls, I would have it with me and thus be more willing to write stuff for it while I have some down time at work. As it stands now it sits at home. I will have no interest in it until I can make and receive calls. Not make a few calls, then reboot, then receive a call, then reboot, etc... Thats just my opinion tho, so all the linux nuts out there please dont jump down my throat. The only reason I am writing this is so the guy asking the questions will get another point of view.. Dont get me wrong, this phone has tons of potential, but I think others may be in the same situation as me.. And after a few months of it sitting on the shelf, I will forget its there and move onto something else... That is of course if we dont get a reliable dialer in the near future.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Just a status update here: I emailed [EMAIL PROTECTED] and Jouston was kind enough to respond promptly. (Thank-you!) Basically, I asked to have my GTA01 back-order cancelled if they did not have them stateside by September 10th. Jouston replied that they would not available until the 20th and promptly cancelled my order for me. It simply made NO SENSE to me to keep open an order for the GTA01 if the GTA02 will follow within 60 to 90 days. The Wi-Fi feature is an important enough addition to wait for. Until then, I have ordered an iPhone and will do my best to avoid bricking it while I try my hand at unlocking it to work on T-Mobile's network. Yes, it lacks the AGPS I need for some of the geospace-aware apps that I would like to work on, but it will be interesting to study the interface design up close. Also, while I'm at it (and I have your attention), there are a few horifically basic handset design issues that need to be addressed in future FIC/OpenMoko hardware designs that looking at the iPhone makes painfully obvious: 1) Shape. The hemisphere on the bottom of the GTA01/02 phone will not allow the phone to remain upright in a breast pocket. It will always cant to one side or the other. The bottom needs to be pretty much squared off. 2) Touch-Screen recess. The bezel height around the touch screen needs to be cut down to no more than 1mm so that the maximum touch screen finger use utility is preserved. If these have been mentioned before on the list or the wiki, well, just add my voice to the choir. Doing my best to not sound Pissed off or Disgruntled here... Alan Original Message: - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:50:45 -0400 To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order. There appear to be some disgruntled developers out there with the Neo1973 GTA01 sitting on the shelf. Please consider selling your development handset on eBay or similar so other, more active developers, without hardware can get one. Just my $0.02, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Seriously, with your already pissed off tone, I would never get this phone. I have one, and now wish I didnt get it. I am not looking for my money back or anything like that, I knew I could be buying a brick and was willing to take that risk.. But the fact is I just dont use it. I would think very early on the focus would be to reliably make and receive calls, which this phone cannot do. If I could use this to simply make and receive calls, I would have it with me and thus be more willing to write stuff for it while I have some down time at work. As it stands now it sits at home. I will have no interest in it until I can make and receive calls. Not make a few calls, then reboot, then receive a call, then reboot, etc... Thats just my opinion tho, so all the linux nuts out there please dont jump down my throat. The only reason I am writing this is so the guy asking the questions will get another point of view.. Dont get me wrong, this phone has tons of potential, but I think others may be in the same situation as me.. And after a few months of it sitting on the shelf, I will forget its there and move onto something else... That is of course if we dont get a reliable dialer in the near future.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 28 Aug 2007, at 21:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Shape. The hemisphere on the bottom of the GTA01/02 phone will not allow the phone to remain upright in a breast pocket. It will always cant to one side or the other. The bottom needs to be pretty much squared off. Indeed, I had a Mio A701 for 10 months, served me pretty well and the Neo reminds me of it. But as you can see, this is squared off. Would be a good inspiration for a future Neo, but obviously make the Neo better :) Photo of it here: http://www.mio-tech.be/en/gps-navigation-device-Mio-A701-overview.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, while I'm at it (and I have your attention), there are a few horifically basic handset design issues that need to be addressed in future FIC/OpenMoko hardware designs that looking at the iPhone makes painfully obvious: 1) Shape. The hemisphere on the bottom of the GTA01/02 phone will not allow the phone to remain upright in a breast pocket. It will always cant to one side or the other. The bottom needs to be pretty much squared off. Doing my best to not sound Pissed off or Disgruntled here... Alan Unfortunately this is half the story. Whatever I ever kept in my pocket fell out and broke if my pocket was not buttoned at the top. Glasses phones pdas ... you name it. The requirement to have your pocket buttoned up is way more important. So the requirement that it must be flat at the bottom is superficial. I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. If I have my definitions right, squares are also symmetrical :-P Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Open moko round bottom Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Sounds like a great market for a small plastic slip on square bottom piece to solve the problem. On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 2:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, while I'm at it (and I have your attention), there are a few horifically basic handset design issues that need to be addressed in future FIC/OpenMoko hardware designs that looking at the iPhone makes painfully obvious: 1) Shape. The hemisphere on the bottom of the GTA01/02 phone will not allow the phone to remain upright in a breast pocket. It will always cant to one side or the other. The bottom needs to be pretty much squared off. Doing my best to not sound Pissed off or Disgruntled here... Alan Unfortunately this is half the story. Whatever I ever kept in my pocket fell out and broke if my pocket was not buttoned at the top. Glasses phones pdas ... you name it. The requirement to have your pocket buttoned up is way more important. So the requirement that it must be flat at the bottom is superficial. I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open moko round bottom Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 28 Aug 2007, at 23:01, GWMobile wrote: Sounds like a great market for a small plastic slip on square bottom piece to solve the problem. Or shirts with a rounded pocket, or a case with clip. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Read the post before you jump to conclusions. The suggestion was to make at least the bottom square. Joe Friedrichsen wrote: On 8/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the aesthetic look of the Neo and there is nothing more comfortable to handle than a symmetric design. Point in case, a classical rounded edge shaped bar of soap is the easiest to handleSquare soap never worked for me. If I have my definitions right, squares are also symmetrical :-P Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Seriously, with your already pissed off tone, I would never get this phone. I have one, and now wish I didnt get it. I am not looking for my money back or anything like that, I knew I could be buying a brick and was willing to take that risk.. But the fact is I just dont use it. I would think very early on the focus would be to reliably make and receive calls, which this phone cannot do. If I could use this to simply make and receive calls, I would have it with me and thus be more willing to write stuff for it while I have some down time at work. As it stands now it sits at home. I will have no interest in it until I can make and receive calls. Not make a few calls, then reboot, then receive a call, then reboot, etc... Thats just my opinion tho, so all the linux nuts out there please dont jump down my throat. The only reason I am writing this is so the guy asking the questions will get another point of view.. Dont get me wrong, this phone has tons of potential, but I think others may be in the same situation as me.. And after a few months of it sitting on the shelf, I will forget its there and move onto something else... That is of course if we dont get a reliable dialer in the near future.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... I'm sure that if you show up with a billion dollars, you will be at the front of the queue :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
You all do not understand the concept of a development release - and maybe you never will. Everybody who ordered knew what he would get, everybody had the possibility to check what will work and what will not. Sorry guys, but please just shut up. (P.S. To not casting a damning light on FIC or OpenMoko: I'm not affiliated to both.) 2007/8/26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Seriously, with your already pissed off tone, I would never get this phone. I have one, and now wish I didnt get it. I am not looking for my money back or anything like that, I knew I could be buying a brick and was willing to take that risk.. But the fact is I just dont use it. I would think very early on the focus would be to reliably make and receive calls, which this phone cannot do. If I could use this to simply make and receive calls, I would have it with me and thus be more willing to write stuff for it while I have some down time at work. As it stands now it sits at home. I will have no interest in it until I can make and receive calls. Not make a few calls, then reboot, then receive a call, then reboot, etc... Thats just my opinion tho, so all the linux nuts out there please dont jump down my throat. The only reason I am writing this is so the guy asking the questions will get another point of view.. Dont get me wrong, this phone has tons of potential, but I think others may be in the same situation as me.. And after a few months of it sitting on the shelf, I will forget its there and move onto something else... That is of course if we dont get a reliable dialer in the near future.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why don't I get respect from a company I'm trying to support at my expense? I really want it and I could really use it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why can't I get quality, authoritative answers to these questions? Hi Alan. I'm not affiliated with FIC in any way, but I thought I'd give you my viewpoint, for what it's worth. You are probably getting the answers they *can* give. Whether that can is because they don't know, or because the business side of the company is not allowed to, we can't know for certain, but I suspect it's the former. Unless I'm some kind of idiot, why would I want buy a GTA01 phone if the GTA02 was to follow shortly? Because you can get it sooner? Because you want to support the project? As others have said, because you can't fully test code without the real hardware? If you are an end user and not interested in helping with the development, UI design, artwork, and/or testing of the system as it is developed, then you probably do want to wait. Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Probably because they don't want to offer for sale a phone they don't have in production yet? Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? You are the only one who can answer this question. Yes, it can be frustrating to wait. Even with a mid 2500's order number we waited until the 2nd batch of phones. We've even ordered another expecting to have to wait until sometime in September. You're not dealing with Verizon or ATT... FIC doesn't have a ton of people dedicated to processing consumer orders, nor do they have a stack of phones in a warehouse ready to be shipped out. However, I can tell you that I've seen prototype phones from other, much larger, manufacturers that take every bit as long to make it to market from the stage an early integrator gets to see them. In short, if you value having the hardware as soon as *possible*, keep your order. If you just want a phone with as many features as you can get...wait. Of course, if you wait, then the *next* phone (whatever it is) will be on the horizon...and your question will still be valid...and you can keep waiting...forever. - John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 23 Aug 2007, at 18:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I putting up with all this frustration reading about others who -have- their phones and why should I not just cancel my order?? Convince me. A few points, it's always been a developer release and a somewhat experimental project. Secondly, you really need hardware to work on certain things. The hardware exhibits bugs and problems QEMU doesn't. Are you actively developing? if not then you can probably wait. I'm trying to develop, but getting a working build of 2007.2 has taken a few days, it seems like much of the core stuff I wished to contribute to has been designed and is owned now. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
