Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. GTK+ is in pure C, not C++ (GTK-- is for C++). Better to learn C ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one - can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel-iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
VMWare does not support OS X. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? What is Python? For my mockups, should I just use the example pics from the press release? Thanks, ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 8:55 AM, Andrew Turner wrote: Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
VMWare does not support OS X. They have a beta for Intel-Mac OSX. Nothing for PPC Mac though. Expect a full release this summer, with all the great features of their other VM players. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. You download an ISO or CDR of it ... like a DMG on OSX except that this contains an image of the CD-ROM. You can't use it directly on your OSX Mac, but you can burn a CD with it. Get 6.10. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? Start with 'C' if you don't do C++ yet. If you can learn on your own, A First Book of C might be a starting point; I'm sure there's online tutorials as well. What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Woah! That's a lot of information. Let me try to peice it together: I have both a PPC and an Intel-Mac, Do I just download the Linux VMWare? It doesn't seem to have support for Os X. What is OE/BB? Are you saying i need to program in a Linux environment? Thanks, ryan On Feb 12, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Michael Dickens wrote: Ryan - Someone suggested getting VMWare setting up a Ubuntu VM ... this is a -great- suggestion since you're running OSX, -if- you have an Intel-Mac. If you have a PPC-Mac, then this is not an option (AFAIK), and you'll need to either (1) install Linux on another hard drive / partition and direct boot into it (which might require hacking the firmware), or (2) use OE/BB directly on OSX. While one -can- get OE/BB running under OSX, at least theoretically, it's not as simple as doing it under Linux; Apple provides some GNU tools, but some are Apple-specific (e.g. libtool is Apple-specific on OSX, and thus with using GNU libtool many folks rename it glibtool etc). For the second option, I'd recommend using MacPorts to install the background stuff for OE/BB. I'm actually trying to get OE/BB working on OSX in parallel with doing it on a VM running Ubuntu (the VM already won this competition, but I'm still working on the OSX side). Ubuntu provides a nice and simple setup / configuration that doesn't require a lot of in-depth knowledge of Linux (unless you want to go there). Setting up OE/BB inside the VM is as simple as following the instructions on the Wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/ gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu ... really, I just did it last night running Ubuntu 6.10 on a VM on an Intel- iMac. I created 'nano', and can copy it to my local ARM-based TS-7300, and it runs just fine ... very cool! Being an OSX user myself, both at home and school, I'm happy to provide whatever reasonable assistance I can to other OSX users. While I don't have a lot of experience under Linux, I do have plenty of experience on various Unix flavors and MacOS from 5 to current - both as programmer and user (from setting up the MMU to device drivers to CLI applications to GUIs). Good luck! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
I have both a PPC and an Intel-Mac, Do I just download the Linux VMWare? It doesn't seem to have support for Os X. You download a VMWare beta fusion for Intel-Mac: http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/fusion/ Then you download an Ubuntu ISO or a VMWare Ubuntu application: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/GetUbuntu/download? action=showredirect=download or http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/ then search for ubuntu . What is OE/BB? OpenEmbedded / BitBake; while they don't go together necessarily, they seem to in this case. Are you saying i need to program in a Linux environment? No. What I'm saying is that you can get up to speed much more quickly and reliably in a VM running Ubuntu Linux than you can under OSX. Since it sounds like you're a noob to most programming, you might as well get going with Linux. Hope this helps! - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
You didn't have to call me a noobjk (im not a fan of nerd speak). Get used to it ;) Thanks so much, that is really what I was looking for. By running Linux, I will be prepared when someone releases an OpenMoko programming suite, right? In theory, yes, by running Linux you'll be prepared. If nothing more, you'll be on your way towards understanding how to program under Linux - which seems like a valuable ability for any future work. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. That's great ! I didn't know there was python involved in openmoko... What parts? The networking one? (twisted?) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. -- Terrence Michael Dickens wrote: VMWare does not support OS X. They have a beta for Intel-Mac OSX. Nothing for PPC Mac though. Expect a full release this summer, with all the great features of their other VM players. Can you be more specific about Ubuntu, what I am supposed to get exactly. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. You download an ISO or CDR of it ... like a DMG on OSX except that this contains an image of the CD-ROM. You can't use it directly on your OSX Mac, but you can burn a CD with it. Get 6.10. I've heard of C++, what is the best way to get started? Start with 'C' if you don't do C++ yet. If you can learn on your own, A First Book of C might be a starting point; I'm sure there's online tutorials as well. What is Python? A scripting language. Much like perl, or bash/sh/csh/tcsh scripts - or AppleScipt if you've done that. Or MATLAB. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels isn't free, yes? The VMware fusion beta currently is ... of course, it's beta so its utility might not be that great; should be $99 once it's released (maybe beta testers can get a discount? I don't know). I actually use Parallels right now, though I need to try out the VMware beta to see how it compares; Parallels is very slick running Win/XP ;) . Needless to say, their virtual hard drives aren't directly compatible ... though in theory they could be made so (I see a fun project in the future ;). - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels is $79, sometimes they run offers at $49. Money well spent IMO. It runs very well and increases my productivity greatly because I can run multiple OSes quickly and reliably. I believe they will shortly release a tool to convert with VMware images. I assume VMware will be a good option too when it it released. -- Terrence Michael Dickens wrote: Parallels isn't free, yes? The VMware fusion beta currently is ... of course, it's beta so its utility might not be that great; should be $99 once it's released (maybe beta testers can get a discount? I don't know). I actually use Parallels right now, though I need to try out the VMware beta to see how it compares; Parallels is very slick running Win/XP ;) . Needless to say, their virtual hard drives aren't directly compatible ... though in theory they could be made so (I see a fun project in the future ;). - MLD On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. Ryan, have you looked at my two recipes? One is for setting up the OpenEmbedded development environment, one is for writing your first trivial application. Both are fairly detailed step-by-step instructions, including code and commands you can cut and paste into your shell. http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/SettingUpOEForUbuntu http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/OpenEmbedded/OETrivialApplication I spent a fair bit of time on these and really hope they are useful. Now I recognize that you are on Mac OS X, and things are a bit different. At some point I hope to add recipes for doing this on OS X, but that's not at the top of my todo list, Meanwhile, I recommend you get access to a Linux account somehow. For your first lessons, this should be a simple shell account, as there is a fair bit you have to learn before you get to the graphic stuff. There are a number of inexpensive ways to do this: (1) Install Linux on an old computer you or your friends have lying around. Linux is very good with old hardware, hardware that is no longer suitable for modern versions of Windows. A friend of mine found an old, discarded computer out on the street one day. Within 15 minutes he had it running Linux. (1.5) Need help doing this? Where are you located? There are local Linux user groups almost everywhere in the world, and they help people like you get started. (2) Get a shell account somewhere. Some ISPs and hosting companies provide this as part of their service. Many schools provide them - see if a local community college offers any Unix/Linux classes. Perhaps for the price of registering for the class you can get an account. (3) Have any friends in the Linux/Unix world? Ask one of them for a shell account. Your local Linux user group may help you here as well. (4) I will gladly give you a shell account on my computer. Write me offline if you are interested. I've taught both Linux and programming and can help you get started. I'm sure many others on this list can help too, although it's not our primary focus. I know that you are mostly interested in graphics, but I think you need to take these baby steps first. Pretty soon I'll have a recipe for setting up the GTK environment (you can help me test it) and then you can start working with graphics. Please let me know what you think of these suggestions. I'm happy to take your response offline if you prefer. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to check it out, and possibly write a recipe for setting up in this. Simplest: Setup the VM with Ubuntu 6.10; follow instructions on OpenMoko wiki. I don't think a special script will be very useful here since there isn't much (if anything) to do beyond what's in the Wiki. NB: Make sure your VM's hard drive is big enough. 8 GB isn't. 40 GB should be;) Mine is currently at 8.09 GB (on OSX; 7.981 MB in 'df - k') ... get it right the first time so that you don't have to deal with creating a new virtual HD getting the data copied, the HD partitioned correctly, etc... Can you install any environment of your choice inside, or is it whatever it is? Win/XP, Vista (Ultimate, but that's M$'s deal) pretty much any Linux flavor hacked OSX (OSX checks for real hardware) Have you set up OE under this? If you send me any rough notes you have (or post to the list) I'll test and write up a recipe. Yes, I've successfully compiled 'nano' under OE/BB on an Ubuntu 6.10 VM running in Parallels on an Intel-iMac (c2d @ 2.16 GHz). As I said before, there really isn't much to it - just make sure the VM hard drive is big enough ;) I guess you can do screen shots if you want to. - MLD ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Parallels is a virtualization environment. Once installed it gives you an black DOS screen in a OS X window, saying Please insert boot disk. From there on it behaves like any PC so you can install any x86 OS you like. I have not yet tried to set up OE, but since you'll probably install Linux on Parallels the OE setup will be exactly like on Linux. -- Terrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: You can also use Parallels Desktop for OS X at www.parallels.com. Works like a charm for me. -- Terrence Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to check it out, and possibly write a recipe for setting up in this. Can you install any environment of your choice inside, or is it whatever it is? Have you set up OE under this? If you send me any rough notes you have (or post to the list) I'll test and write up a recipe. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
Absolutely. There have been several discussions on this, and there are efforts underway to create appropriate projects. I believe there will be Java ME as well as Java SE ports. I personally will be involved in seeing the Java ME port along. Stay tuned. -- Terrence Martin Lefkowitz wrote: We are going to be able to use java too right? Marty Hi Ryan, I understand where you're coming from. Right now the process of getting up and running developing for the Neo1973 isn't straight-forward - especially for a new coder. This is for a bunch of reasons, one of which is that the actual software isn't released yet, but will be in the near future. Once the software is released, I imagine very quickly someone can put together a VMWare or Qemu image that you could boot on your computer into a development environment. So, my suggestion would be to go ahead and grab a free copy of VMWare player and grab the Ubuntu image (google for it) and get that running (should be very straightforward). For programming, you'll need to start to get up and running with C++. That's a fairly daunting task, but if you want to do real programming for the Neo, you'll need to know how to program in C++, or possibly Python. With regards to themes - not sure how they'll be configured, though probably using similar theming in GTK+ now. You can probably start by just doing Photoshop mockups at the nominal resolution on what you think they'll look like. Hope that helps get you started in a couple of directions. :) Andrew On 2/12/07, Ryan Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have looked at numerous websites and I am still very confused about what I need to write stuff for OpenMoko (Mostly UI). I use Mac OS X, and I don't have a whole lot of prior coding experience. I learn pretty quickly, though. Does anyone know of tutorials, etc. that will get me on the right track. I especially want to make themes for the phone. I have Photoshop, so I would probably use that for the actual tweaking, but I would have no idea how to make it run on the phone. Any help is appreciated. -ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W http://highearthorbit.com Northville, Michigan, USA ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community begin:vcard fn:Terrence Barr n:Barr;Terrence org:Sun Microsystems adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded Community tel;work:+49 711 720 98185 url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Still not getting it...(was: New Topic: Learning how to write for OpenMoko)
On Monday 12 February 2007 14:26, picked up the following transmission from Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded: Absolutely. There have been several discussions on this, and there are efforts underway to create appropriate projects. I believe there will be Java ME as well as Java SE ports. I personally will be involved in seeing the Java ME port along. Stay tuned. After overcoming a major case of brain flatulence, I've set up a java-pkg project, which is now available on the projects page. Visit here: https://projects.openmoko.org/projects/java-pkg/ There's not much there yet, but I figured it was good to get a central place set up early. -- Terrence Martin Lefkowitz wrote: We are going to be able to use java too right? Marty ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
