Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Boubakar Barry]

Are you suggesting that people have to shut up because they don't have the
money to pay attorneys? Total nonsense!

This is not the spirit of this community.

Boubakar


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 1:37 PM Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> Firstly – generally not a good idea to air such things on a public mailing
> list – that’s just common sense.
>
> Secondly – there is a vast difference between a contradictory view – and
> calling someone a criminal when they have not been found guilty of any
> crime – the former is acceptable – the latter is defamatory.
>
> Thirdly – right or wrong – win or lose – legal battles – can cost a hell
> of a lot of money – and generally are a good idea to avoid them when you
> can do so, lest you end up bankrupt
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Noah 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 4, 2022 4:21 PM
> *To:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/
>
>
>
> Dear Community,
>
>
>
> So while enjoying the festive holidays, I got served with a seize and
> desist by counsels of you know who? Well email read "Le Heng" who I suppose
> they meant, Lu Heng.
>
>
>
> Well ofcourse I resisted and the rational is simple imho.
>
>
>
> How come Lu Heng is accusing me of defamation for statements made on
> AFRINIC specific public discussion mailinglists and forum (
> https://afrinic.net/email/amp):
>
>
>
> As we all know, these public forums allow for contradictory discussions
> allowing Lu Heng and Cloud Innovation Ltd/Larus Limited to respond and
> provide their views and arguments.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Noah
>
>
>
> - **If you think you are too small to make a difference you haven't spent
> a night with a mosquito**.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Lupi, Isaac* 
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:56
> Subject: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG
> To: n...@neo.co.tz ,
> Cc: Sipemba, Thomas <
>
> Dear Noah,
>
> We are attorneys instructed to represent Mr. Le Heng in relation to your
> defamatory statements to him. Please find attached a self-explanatory
> demand letter for your actioning. We look forward to hearing from you at
> your earliest possible convenience, in any event not more that *seven (7)
> days* from the date of this demand. A hard copy of the letter will be
> hand delivered to your address in due course.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Isaac Lupi
> Junior Associate
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG :-/

[Boubakar Barry]

Truth and community are stronger than Le Heng or Lu Heng.

Boubakar

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 1:22 PM Noah  wrote:

> Dear Community,
>
> So while enjoying the festive holidays, I got served with a seize and
> desist by counsels of you know who? Well email read "Le Heng" who I suppose
> they meant, Lu Heng.
>
> Well ofcourse I resisted and the rational is simple imho.
>
> How come Lu Heng is accusing me of defamation for statements made on
> AFRINIC specific public discussion mailinglists and forum (
> https://afrinic.net/email/amp):
>
> As we all know, these public forums allow for contradictory discussions
> allowing Lu Heng and Cloud Innovation Ltd/Larus Limited to respond and
> provide their views and arguments.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> - **If you think you are too small to make a difference you haven't spent
> a night with a mosquito**.
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Lupi, Isaac 
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:56
> Subject: DEFAMATION AGAINST MR. LU HENG
> To: n...@neo.co.tz ,
> Cc: Sipemba, Thomas <
>
> Dear Noah,
>
> We are attorneys instructed to represent Mr. Le Heng in relation to your
> defamatory statements to him. Please find attached a self-explanatory
> demand letter for your actioning. We look forward to hearing from you at
> your earliest possible convenience, in any event not more that *seven (7)
> days* from the date of this demand. A hard copy of the letter will be
> hand delivered to your address in due course.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Isaac Lupi
> Junior Associate
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Boubakar Barry]

Owen,

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 8:44 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
> > Noah,
> >
> > Do you think Owen doesn’t know all this?   He has to sing to his
> master’s tune.  My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges
> and call out their paymaster as you are doing.
>
> I do not have a master. The tune I sing is one of my choosing. Your ad
> hominem attack here is unwarranted, unfounded, and ill conceived.
>
> As you will see from my detailed reply to Noah’s message, he has
> misrepresented the facts of the matter.
>
> I regularly disagree with Lu and Larus, however, in this particular
> situation, it is, in fact, AFRINIC that has repeatedly stepped over the
> line.
>
> We will see how the courts respond to this in due course.
>

To be honest, I sometimes feel pity for you and I wonder why you don't just
"retire" from all of this. I have known another Owen in the past, maybe a
false judgement from me at that time.
This whole discussion with you trying for months to respond to questions
not directed to you is just pathetic.

But who knows, as you admit that you are connected to those who want to
bury AFRINIC, maybe the cheques you receive from them are just difficult to
not accept and cash?

Boubakar


> Owen
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING

[Boubakar Barry]

Owen,

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:36 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

> I am confused… How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC?
>
> Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its
> consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly
> on its behalf?
>

You were asked a simpler question and you fail to respond.

Boubakar


> I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger
> problems than its financial state.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF  wrote:
>
> Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions
> wants to kill AFRINIC
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
> --
> *From:* DANIEL NANGHAKA 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM
> *To:* Brian Sowers 
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP
> AFRINIC RUNNING
>
> I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their
> actions show they want to kill AFRINIC.
> If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the
> other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over
> AFRINIC.
> In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage
> Resources that were designated to Africa.
> So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them
> leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions.
> Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad
> daylight.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers  wrote:
>
> One pressing question that may undermine this “initiative”: has AFRINIC
> agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource
> members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from
> AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who
> has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative?
>
> -Brian
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-- 
CEO/Directeur Général, WACREN
Web: http://www.wacren.net
***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)***
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Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Interim CEO

[Boubakar Barry]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 12:52 PM Sander Steffann  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> > Op 16 jun. 2019, om 21:37 heeft Sander Steffann 
> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >> As Community are aware, Mr Alan Peter Barrett, the Chief Executive
> Officer of AFRINIC, submitted his resignation on 27 April 2019 with effect
> from 26 July  2019.
> >>
> >> At its meeting of 14 June 2019, the Board appointed Mr Patrisse Deesse,
> the Finance Director, as Interim Chief Executive Officer with effect from
> 27 July 2019 until a new Chief Executive Officer assumes AFRINIC duties. Mr
> Deesse and Mr Barret will work together between 1 July 2019 and 26 July
> 2019 and finalise the handing over process.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, who will take over the CFO role from Mr Deesse?
>
> Replying to myself to make sure that all relevant information is shared
> fairly within this community: one of the board members has informed me
> off-list that nobody will take over the CFO role, and there will therefore
> not be a CFO while Mr Deesse takes the role of interim CEO.
>

That board member should be bold enough to post the information on this
list.

Or is this a strategy to divide the board by having them suspect each
others?

This is really low-level politics, to say the least. Deplorable, and
doesn't have its place here.

Boubakar



> Cheers,
> Sander
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Contents of Community-Discuss digest

[Boubakar Barry]

Sorry, but I cannot refrain myself from writing this.

In the past days, I have read many messages similar to this one
(fellowship, board, committees, etc.).

My God: why do people think that just because they applied for a position,
they should be considered?

Believe me: I have been in many selection committees where we reviewed
applications that would barely pass even for positions meant to be filled
by secondary school students. We just thanked the applicants and informed
them that they have not been selected.

When I see some of the complaints on this list, well... let me stop here.
For now.

Boubakar

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 3:33 PM Kaddyjatou Drammeh 
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I understand all the complaints that were posted here. However I also
> wished to lodge my complain that I personally was not considered for the
> Hackethon fellowship just recently I was informed and the upcoming events
> like Icann65 and internet governance forum AFPIF Fellowship are yet to say
> anything I hope these three programs I short be shortlisted with funding to
> attend.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

[Boubakar Barry]

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 8:56 PM Jackson Muthili 
wrote:

>  On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM Benjamin Eshun
>  wrote:
> >
> > Jackson,
> >
> > Just a simple question.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 11:16 AM Jackson Muthili 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > A policy that incites or stimulates divisiveness, targeting and
> > > victimizing is very, very bad.
> >
> > How does a proposed policy that gives guidelines to AFRINIC to carry
> > out audit and review of INR that it already has the mandate to carry
> > out “very very bad”?
>
> It has produced a very unhealthy discussion climate full of name
> calling, personal attacks, racist connotation to name but a few.


Created by whom? I don't support any personal attack, not even thinking of
supporting racial ones. This has no place in this community.

However, shall we keep quite and see how Africa is ripped off its resources
just because some are shouting that this is discriminatory, etc.?

The way I see some of the contributions here is that AFRINIC staff doesn't
have the competency and integrity to carry out reviews on the use of
resources.

Resources are given out for the advancement of the Internet and for
socio-economic development in Africa. So, why oppose checks for the
custodians of the IP resources allocated to Africa to check that these are
used for the purpose they have been allocated to us?

Boubakar

For
> me this is very bad. It means there are underlying principles in this
> proposal that have not been properly written nor their ramifications
> properly explained.
>
> J
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair

[Boubakar Barry]

I can only support this. Volunteers like Sami deserve a better treatment.

Boubakar

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:40 AM Sunday Folayan  wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> This should resolve the issues around the legitimacy of an hard-working
> volunteer, for the job no one else wants to do, so that the community
> can move on.
>
> Moving on, is without prejudice to the rights and intention of other
> parties to appeal or not appeal if and when the last call is made by the
> legitimate callers - the Co-Chairs.
>
> Apologies for the cross-posting.
>
> Kind Regards ..
>
> R.SF.
>
> On 06/12/2018 09:01, Ernest Byaruhanga wrote:
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Here is some background information on the matter of Sami’s term as
> co-chair of the Policy Development Working Group.
> >
> > On the 07 of June 2018, minutes of the AFRINIC28 public policy meeting
> were published on the AFRINIC website and shared with the co-chairs.
> >
> > The minutes are published at
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/development-working-group/ppm-afrinic-28
> >
> > The last two bullets of minute 6.1 read as follows:
> >
> > --
> > • Sami Salih (the outgoing co-chair) offered to continue as co-chair
> till there is a process in future to find a new co-chair.
> > • Delegates were asked if there is support for Sami to continue as
> co-chair till the next scheduled nominations period. There was strong
> support to have Sami continue – and he was therefore tasked to serve as
> temporary co-chair until the next scheduled nominations season.
> > —
> >
> > The above is what guided Sami (and AFRINIC) to believe that his tenure
> would run "until the next scheduled nominations season”, which is next year
> at AIS/AFRINIC30 (2019).
> >
> > Looking at the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTApl4QHfY,
> it’s clear that the recorded minute above did not accurately reflect what
> was discussed.
> >
> > Apologies for the confusion.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ernest.
> >
> >
> >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 10:38, Andrew Alston 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Arnaud,
> >>
> >> My motivation – when I found this situation and duly acted on it – was
> simple – to gather the evidence required to prove that the process had not
> been followed in the passing of this policy – the fact that while looking
> for other evidence to document all the objections that made this policy
> fail in Dakar, I came across this – is immaterial sometimes when you are
> documenting evidence to form solid and legitimate groundwork for an appeal
> when you know for a fact that process has not been followed, you come
> across things that you hadn’t seen before – that require action.
> >>
> >> If by “Is this what we can expect from Liquid” you refer to me
> personally insisting on adherence to process and adherence to the bylaws –
> then yes – that is what you can expect, please remember – in the context of
> the PDP – companies typically do not take the floor – individuals from the
> community do.  When and if I am speaking on behalf of my employer – I have
> always made this extremely clear.
> >>
> >> As for the vague insinuations about cross-checked data – yes – my data
> was wrong – it happens and I’ve admitted that – it happened because I
> relied on published data that I downloaded from a source that I believed to
> be trusted and didn’t verify it – my mistake and I apologise for that –
> however, that is not really relevant to the discussion at hand and is, in
> my opinion, you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing, conflating
> issues to try and discredit something legitimate.  I refer to my previous
> email about members of this community engaging in “whataboutism” (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) – this is case in point.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Arnaud AMELINA 
> >> Sent: 06 December 2018 09:07
> >> To: Andrew Alston 
> >> Cc: abel ELITCHA ; rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
> Policy ; General Discussions of AFRINIC <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [rpd] Sami's status as a co-chair
> >>
> >> Andrew,
> >>
> >> Why do you always react following your ego and  pursuing personal
> interest and not community interest?  When you started this palaver on last
> call and Sami tenure, you tried on community-discuss to use data you have
> not cross checked to discredit  the organization  performance. What is your
> real motive? Is this what we should expect from Liquid telecom all along ?
> >>
> >> Arnaud
> >>
> >> Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 20:10, Andrew Alston <
> andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> a écrit :
> >> Komi,
> >>
> >> You cannot rewrite the mandate granted by the community in the minutes.
> >>
> >> Fact – the reality is – the community voted – clearly – on a 6 month
> mandate – that is indisputable fact.
> >> Fact – that mandate expired
> >>
> >> What the *minutes* say does not change the reality of a video recorded
> meeting.
> >>
> >> When the issue was raised – is immaterial – the context of the issue
> being raised – is immaterial – fact – is fact 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Boubakar Barry]

Do the people going crazy about salad and desert in Dakar know who paid for
the lunches, coffee breaks, welcome reception and gala dinner?

Please, can we stop this nonsense here and move it to another thread where
people interested can express their views, suggestions, etc.?

We are discussing more important things in this thread.

Boubakar

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Mark Elkins  wrote:

> I've no idea if you were in Dakar. I was.
>
> One person who was chatted to admitted she was a dress maker and was there
> for the free lunch. She otherwise had no interest in the conference - not
> even about putting up a web site to sell her products. She was not the only
> one. Yes, she was a local African. I take my hat off to the locals. They
> dressed well so easily blended in. Actually, that helped give them away.
> Most of the AfriNIC regulars wore T-shirts or more casual clothing and
> carried bags or laptops.
>
> On 18/05/2018 19:32, Uffa Modey via Community-Discuss wrote:
>
> They are not freeloaders. They are AFRICANS
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ben Roberts
>   wrote:
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> Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Boubakar Barry]

Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this further.

This one is not about analysis of travel costs and meeting registration
fees.

Boubakar


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Actually Badru – it’s not.
>
>
>
> 171 trips taken to the end of Q3 –
>
>
>
> 62 Staff trips – excluding the 24 staff flown to AIS – totalling 86 trips.
>
>
>
> Average cost of a trip by the financials in Q3 - $2049.50 per trip – or
> $176,247 in staff trips excluding board alone.  In total we had spent
> $350,504 on travel by the end of Q3 – considering AFRINIC’s current member
> base that equates to (roughly):
>
>
>
> $117.50 per Member or to put that another way:
>
>
>
> 8.3% of an extra small LIR’s annual fees
>
> 5.3% of a very small LIR’s annual fees
>
> 1.8% of a small members fees
>
>
>
> And so it goes on – but those three categories make up the vast majority
> of AFRINIC members in terms of numbers.
>
>
>
> By the time the year came to a close – those percentages had changed –
> with the average rough travel cost totalling roughly $350 per member, which
> again, using the small members where the base actually sits equates to:
>
>
>
> 25% of an extra small members fees
>
> 16% of a very small members fees
>
> 5.5% of a small members fees
>
>
>
> And in total – the travel expenses of AFRINIC racked up 10.7% of the total
> expenses – and anyone who knows anything about business should know –
> percentages like this – are not insignificant numbers.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.nt...@nftconsult.com]
> *Sent:* 18 May 2018 12:41
> *To:* Ben Roberts 
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC ;
> AfriNIC Discuss 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for
> Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs
> we are in.
>
> Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at
> the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure
> misinformation.
>
>
>
> Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a
> fraction of someone’s salary.
>
>
>
> Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you
> need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also
> to the Business.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <
> ben.robe...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
> none of the candidates join the board.
>
>
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC
> will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
>
>
> Come on folks...
>
>
>
> Noah
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

[Boubakar Barry]

Hello Board and Legal Counsel,

Good that Omo spotted this.

It’s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board
according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.

https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process describes
the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the
case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one
candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.

It’s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
elections can be challenged.

Please advise.

Regards.

Boubakar

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya  wrote:

> Greetings All,
>
> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>
> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>
>
>-
>Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>of votes in each category will be declared winners
>
> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>
>
> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>
> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>
> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>
> None of the above - 78
>
> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>
>
> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
> following clause as they had one candidate.
>
>
>- All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>   there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>   above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>   considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>   the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>
>
> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
> Tessa of a rightful win …. especially in the circumstances we find
> ourselves.
>
> Omo
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

[Boubakar Barry]

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM, Sander Steffann  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > You will tell us in this community that we are fools if we cannot be
> convinced that you and your friends are the authors of that message. what
> are you talking about.
>
> I (or any of my friends as far as I am aware) had nothing to do with the
> publication of that message. As far as I can see everything in that article
> is based on the contents of this (public) mailing list. I don't think there
> is anybody to blame except the people who made the mess happen in the first
> place...
>

I agree that the people who "made the mess happen" are to blame. But also
those who are amplifying the situation (that is serious enough) by
spreading the "bad news". It doesn't help the organization in any way.

This community is strong enough to address the issue and get things that
went wrong fixed.

Boubakar


>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Resolution requesting the boards resignation

[Boubakar Barry]

Sorry, but what is this? I restrain myself to say some words.

I, and many others on these lists can claim having received even more *
*massive** global content providers stating this or that.

I stood in Tunis on the floor in 2015 and asked the Board, which you were
part of, to resign. History has shown that you all should have done so at
that time. But all of you - including you - resisted and managed to get
only 2 of you "sacrificed" as scape goats.

I also asked this current Board to resign; weeks ago.

So, please, don't play hero here. You have been part of the problem, and
maybe still are part of it.

You should rather have kept low profile now if you were wise. And not
jumping up and down. Make your point and relax; it's as simple as that.

Boubakar

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> +1 Saul – I happen to know of several people in both East and South that
> have said they are not prepared to tarnish their names and are not prepared
> to sit on a board where they are in the minority and the board is prone to
> doing things that violate the bottom up principles and act without a care
> for their members.
>
>
>
> I think though the most scary comment I had today was from a **massive**
> global content provider – who unfortunately I cannot name – who said – and
> I quote “I hope this gets resolved and you end up with a trustworthy
> board.  I understand the need for these actions, but this is unsettling for
> business in the region”
>
>
>
> Basically – this is now beginning to show signs of potentially affecting
> investment on the continent – thanks to the boards callous attitude.  This
> has to be sorted out – and fast
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Saul Stein 
> *Date: *Monday, 23 April 2018 at 09:40
> *To: *Owen DeLong , Sander Steffann 
> *Cc: *General Discussions of AFRINIC ,
> AFRINIC Board of Directors' List , "
> members-disc...@afrinic.net" 
>
> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Resolution
> requesting the boards resignation
>
>
>
> I think that this raises and answers other questions.
>
> The board hides behind “redacted” minutes of meetings. Minutes should be
> able to be published within a week. With nothing to hide, there should not
> be a problem. The wonderful thing about a fact is that it is just that: the
> truth and it will always be that and one doesn’t need to remember different
> stories!
>
>
>
> The way board members vote is important to know. They are representing us,
> the voters, the community. They need to know that they are beholden to us.
> I elect a board member based on what he stands for, if he no longer does
> that after his election, he/she needs to know that I’ll be beating on his
> door and he won’t be getting my vote again!
>
>
>
> A vote of no confidence was tabled and accepted. It has now been rejected.
> I am not going to repeat the words of others, I agree with all that has
> been said, but to add, we deserve the right to know who voted how to remove
> this item from the agenda.
>
>
>
> I think that is why we don’t have a choice and sufficient candidates to
> elect.
>
> No-one worth voting for is prepared to tarnish their name by association
> with the current board. (this is not hearsay, I have heard that there are
> those that are prepared to stand on a clean board)
>
>
>
> Saul
>
>
>
>
>
> *Saul*
>
> *From:* Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com]
> *Sent:* 22 April 2018 07:33 PM
> *To:* Sander Steffann 
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC ;
> AFRINIC Board of Directors' List ;
> members-disc...@afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Resolution
> requesting the boards resignation
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> I must condemn this action by the AfriNIC board in the strongest possible
> terms.
>
>
>
> Choosing to sweep aside the community’s desire to hold a vote by
> resolution, offering to discuss at open mic as if it were a viable
> alternative is as insulting to the community as it is inappropriate for the
> board.
>
>
>
> I urge the board to reconsider this action and restore the resolution to
> the agenda.
>
>
>
> The board has now placed itself in a lose-lose position with regard to
> this matter.
>
>
>
> If they refuse to restore the item to the agenda, both the AfriNIC
> community and global observers can only assume that the board is cowering
> in fear because they know such a vote would pass, thus the board has lost
> the confidence of the membership and should resign.
>
>
>
> If they restore the item to the agenda, this action will surely have
> encouraged some who may have previously planned on voting against it to
> change their minds, making the vote even more likely to pass.
>
>
>
> Nonetheless, since the board has, in all likelihood lost the 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Update from the Board regarding recent allegations

[Boubakar Barry]

My only and last comment on this: there is life after AfriNIC (board and
staff). At least, it should be. We however hope continuous contributions
after board and staff positions (we have seen occurrences of the contrary).

Personally, I would be very embarrassed struggling to keep whatever
position that I accepted for serving the community. Africa doesn't have the
monopoly of it, but dignity is very important in the African society.

My last post on this.

Boubakar


On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Alan Barrett 
wrote:

> Dear AFRINIC community,
>
> The AFRINIC Board has held several meetings recently, including a special
> meeting today (22 March 2018) to discuss the recent allegations.  The Board
> recognises the severity and importance of the allegations, and intends to
> act as quickly as reasonable, but without undue haste.
>
> The Board wishes to clarify that the results of the independent
> investigation are expected to be reported by the Governance Committee on or
> before 30 April 2018.
>
> The Board is seeking legal advice on whether or not there has been a
> breach of any NDA, and expects to receive an answer by 30 March 2018.
>
> The budget of USD 15,000 was decided as an amount that the Board expects
> to be more than sufficient, so as to avoid back and forth approval.
>
> Alan Barrett, CEO, on behalf of the AFRINIC Board
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Boubakar Barry]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 6:30 PM, Noah  wrote:

>
> Sunday went on.
>
>>  I do acknowledge that I shared a chat (with the best intentions) which
> should have been treated with more caution, no matter how good the
> intention was.
>
> You seem to be unbothered that a board member took upon himself to share
> conversation he had privately had with another board member and the CEO
> regarding Afrinic operations and then went on to share details of that
> conversation with a subodinate of the same CEO with no regard for PRIVACY
> and the sensitivity of the said discussion.
>
> They passed a resolution to deal with board privacy and they since sign
> NDA's for a reason you know.
>
> Rules are rules and when they are broken, there are consequences and that
> is why we make the rules.
>

Is this rocket science? Shall we expose ourselves to the whole world with
this double standard behaviour?

There are machiavellian attempts to disgrace us by not encouraging or even
preventing to take the right decisions in the name of the almighty "I'm
also member of this community" rhetoric; and it's not new. If we accept
this and let it go, then shame on all of us who care about AfriNIC.

Boubakar


>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Boubakar Barry]

This seems to be handled lightly by the board. "Solidarity"? Very
inappropriate.

If it doesn't act _now_, the community should take its responsibility and
request a replacement of the full board in Dakar.

Boubakar


On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Noah  wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, 5:57 p.m. Wayne Diamond,  wrote:
>
>>
>> Some body from the AfriNic board that is *NOT* implicated in either the
>> harassment or breach of NDA needs to take control *now* and make a
>> decisive statement to the community in the very near future (as in 72
>> hours) in order to inform the community of what is being done about each of
>> the issues.
>>
> Thanks Wayne
>
> And to be pricise we have below board members who seem to lack cohesion
> but i could be wrong.
>
> Mr.Masilela Lucky
> Mr.Abibu Ntagihiye
> Mr.Bope Christian
> Mr.Ilunga Serge
> Mr.Ojedeji Seun
> Mr.Subramanian Moonesamy
> Mr.Alan Barrett (ex-officio)
>
> The reputation of AfriNic and the community cannot wait until the end of
>> April for an investigation to start.
>>
> +++1
>
>>
>>
>> To the board that are not involved in either, get your act together
>> quickly or step down for a new interim board to be appointed in order to
>> resolve this but this cannot continue any longer in this manner.
>>
>
> +++1
>
> Noah
>
>>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Allegation of Harassment

[Boubakar Barry]

Dear All,

Many in this community may recall that in Tunis 2015, due to dysfunction in
the board and the loss of trust from a large section of the community, I
requested on the floor that the whole board should resign so that we can
restart afresh. And I was not alone.

However, the board managed to “sacrifice” two of its members to get us
moved on. Two other board members were later voted out by the community at
subsequent board elections.

The fact that two members of the then board who are still serving in the
board (at the highest positions as Chair and Vice-Chair) are now subject to
grave allegations suggests that it should have been better that the whole
board stepped down in Tunis. This would have saved us three precious years
for reconstructing our organization.

Shall we continue to address serious leadership issues of our organization
lightly? If we do so, AfriNIC will soon collapse. Reviewing the processes
of board members selection, board leadership selection as well as board
members performance assessment should be a matter of priority.

While the grave allegations against the board members and senior AfriNIC
staff do not automatically mean that they are guilty, good governance and
leadership practice commands that the accused board members step down and
the concerned staff be suspended with full pay, pending the outcome of an
investigation by an independent committee.
I urge them to take the wise decision needed here, for the sake of the
image of our organization and its future.

Boubakar

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Badru Ntege 
wrote:

> We have a  number of issues on the table based on information posted on
> this list that members beleive should have gotten swift action on Tuesday.
>
>
> I’m not sure about the mud slinging being referred to here.
>
> To most people these are issues key to the organization.  There has also
> been reference to elders else where.   Yes I know the Genesis of this and
> beleive if we do not put appropriate pressure now to the relevant
> stakeholders  it would be a disservice to the organization which is bigger
> than any one individual.
>
> Nothing new apart from the community outcry emerged before chair did the
> needful.
>
> I Do not understand and I may never understand those who wish members to
> keep silent when we put up the mailing list for them to share their views
> about their organization
>
> Regards
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:51, Ben Roberts 
> wrote:
>
> I agree with Ali and defer to his legal mind as to why we stop this debate
> now and wait for the investigation
>
> From my point of view I’m just bored of mud slinging without substantial
> information in this debate.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:12 Wale Adedokun  wrote:
>
> +1 @hussein
>
> Especially for the fact that the guys talking here are supposed to be
> elders in this community (ex-board members), the discussion is giving some
> of us a lot of heart ache when you see elders heating up the polity. The
> question is how did we get here as a community? The GC should do the
> needful asap get to the root of this unfortunate and disgraceful situation
> and let all found guilty be dealt with appropriately in the meantime
> everyone should be at peace and give the community some respect.
> Wale
>
>
>
> Wale Adedokun PhD
> Event Coordinator
> Nigeria Network Operators Group(ngNOG)
> 2348037035811
> w...@forum.org.ng
>
>
> - Ali Hussein  wrote:
> >
> All
>
> I honestly think that this discussion now needs to stop until the
> committee tasked to investigate this issue reports back. My hope and
> expectations would be that:-
>
> 1. The committee is publicly announced.
> 2. Their TORs spelled out for the community.
> 3. They begin work and articulate the timetable.
>
> I believe Lucky has articulated this well.
>
> Let us give the team space to do their work. What we are currently doing
> continuing to speculate and infer will just impede their work.
>
> Regards
>
>
> *Ali > Hussein*
>
> *Principal*
>
> *AHK & Associates*
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Tel: +254 713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>
> >
> >
>
> Skype: abu-jomo
>
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> 
>
>
> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>
> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>
> Nairobi, Kenya.
>
> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> organizations that I work with.
> >
> >
>
> >
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Badru Ntege 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> >
>>
>> > > On 17 Mar 2018, at 19:34, Alan Barrett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > >
>>
>> > >>
>>
>> > >
>>
>> > > I reject the idea that anybody should be suspended based on rumour
>> and/or accusations without due process.

Re: [Community-Discuss] [AFRINIC-Announce] NomCom Call for Volunteers

[Boubakar Barry]

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 8:46 AM, Mark Elkins  wrote:

>
>
> On 22/01/2018 10:19, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
> > [Version française ci-dessous]
> >
> > Dear AFRINIC community,
> >
> > The AFRINIC Board is required to appoint a Nomination Committee (NomCom)
> every year, in terms of article 9 of the Bylaws <
> https://afrinic.net/en/about/bylaws/2001-afrinic-bylaws-2016?start=8>.
> >
> > I hereby call for volunteers from the community to fill three open
> positions on the 2018 NomCom.  If you are interested in serving on the 2018
> NomCom, please send your expression of interest, including a short
> biography, by email to legalafrinic dot net by Friday 3 February 2018
> at 20:00 UTC.
> ...
> > * AFRINIC Board of Directors:
> >
> > Two Board seats are up for election, to serve three-year terms from 2018
> to 2021.  Terms begin and end after the AGMM where elections are held.
> > - Seat 5 (Southern Africa), currently held by Lucky Masilela;
> > - Seat 6 (Eastern Africa), currently held by Abibu Rashid Ntahigiye.
> ...
> > In terms of section 9.1 of the Bylaws:
> > - No candidate for election to the Board may be a member of the NomCom;
> > - No person domiciled in a region whose Board seat is open for renewal
> may be a member of the NomCom; this means that the 2018 NomCom may not not
> include people who reside in the Eastern Africa or Southern Africa regions.
>
> I'm beginning to seriously wonder about the relevance of 9.1 in the
> Bylaws. They certainly used to make sense when there were two Board
> members per region and there were only elections for PDP and ASO (of
> which few wanted to do), but now it is only one Board member and there
> are also Governance and other seats from any region. That is - its
> probably very difficult to find NomCom volunteers from regions where
> there is not something going on election-wise.
>

Can this be substantiated (especially the last part of the statement?).


> If the second part of 9.1 were scrapped (or even suspended) "No person
> domiciled in a region whose Board seat is open for renewal may be a
> member of the NomCom;"


I would not recommend this.


> - I'd happily volunteer for NomCom duties, a job
> I believe I know pretty well.
>

There are certainly other ways to serve the AfriNIC community.

On this matter, shouldn't we not rather encourage less experienced but able
members of our community to chip in, without changing the rules? There is a
first step in everything, and the vast experience in NomCom affairs for a
number of members of our community is a good proof of that. They all had a
first nomination and eventually election as NomCom member for our community.

Boubakar


>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Target large communities (was: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 252, Issue 1)

[Boubakar Barry]

Are we going to waste time on this?

Yes, many people have challenges if communication is in English only.

But if AfriNIC makes the effort to translate all core documents and the
website into French (done already) and Arabic, we should be fine.

Actually, the majority of people in our community who speak Arabic, English
or French don't have these languages as native language.

If I can communicate in pulaar, wolof, francais, english, deutsch, etc.,
it's because I am open to other cultures and willing to reach out to the
people of these cultures. I won't be surprised that many of those who are
teaching us what we should do will be lost if we engage them in another
language than English, at least from the African perspective.

Again, from my perspective, if we manage to have core docs and the website
in Arabic, English and French, we should be fine.

Boubakar

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Owen DeLong  wrote:

> If we’re looking for liguistic priority, perhaps we should focus on
> demographics by popluation…
>
> This is my best attempt to incorporate both native and non-native speaker
> statistics. Reliable sources for the information are difficult to find and
> it took multiple sources using inconsistent data formats to attempt to
> compile the list.
>
> Sources included a variety of wikipedia pages and other google searched
> locations.
>
> I’m the first to admit this is not a scientific survey and may have issues
> with accuracy.
>
> In order, the top 10 are:
>
> English (196M)
> Arabic (140MM)
> French (120MM)
> Swahili or Kiswahili (100MM)
> Hausa (70MM)
> Berber (56MM)
> Yoruba (28MM)
> Oromo (26MM)
> Amharic (22MM)
> Igbo (18MM)
>
> Total: 776MM
>
> So the top 10 languages would cover roughly 15/16ths of the population.
> If we move cover the top 5, we get 626MM or roughly 3/4 of the population.
> The top 3 (English, Arabic, French) will cover 456MM or roughly 1/2 of the
> population.
>
> I do find it interesting that the first African language comes in at
> number 4.
>
> Owen
>
> > On Jan 16, 2018, at 07:58 , sm+afri...@elandsys.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mohammed,
> > At 06:24 AM 16-01-2018, moham...@ntc.gov.sd wrote:
> >> I believe If we want to rebalance the language gap we have to target
> large communities and reach the largest segment of them. Arabic-speaking
> African countries are more than ten countries. So, it's of high importance
> that the site should be translated into Arabic to ensure greater access to
> the community. It's worth mentioning that the main reason why Arab don't
> participate in AfriNIC or any other ICT-related event is the language.
> >> As to who is going to do the translation, we can ask help from Arab
> volunteers. I, myself, would be very happy to participate in the
> translation process.
> >
> > Thank you for providing the above input.  I wondered why the
> participation from Arabic-speaking African countries was relatively low.
> >
> > Regards,
> > S. Moonesamy
> >
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Removal of a director

[Boubakar Barry]

I know that the AfriNIC community is very generous, with many volunteers.

Can someone summarize this for us? I anticipate that it will be very much
appreciated.

Boubakar

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Ok,
>
>
>
> Because what I have to say in here is extremely long – let me start with
> the summary – because what I had said before hand was not entirely accurate
> – and the for that I apoligse (and I explain below where I believe I erred
> and how what I said can still be made to occur even in the event of that
> error).  I have also copied in the community list on this – since I believe
> this discussion is best moved there – and the only reason I am still
> sending it to the RPD is that the original questions were asked there.  If
> I can please request that further discussion of this issue go either to the
> members list or the community list – thanks.
>
>
>
> One final point before I get into this – I am no lawyer – I know this –
> and what I write below is my own interpretation of the companies act and
> the company’s bylaws – which I have spent substantial time studying.  If
> what I say has any factual inaccuracies – I welcome dissenting opinions
> that I can further learn from – so long as they are backed by citation of
> relevant material – objection with no substantiation is meaningless.
>
>
>
> The summary though is as follows:
>
>
>
> – YES the members can remove a director – the process would be as follows:
>
>
>
>1. Utilizing clause 7.6.viii of the bylaws invoke an SGMM – for the
>purposes of passing a special resolution to amend the bylaws to allow the
>community to remove a director – and please note – that special resolution
>could set the required voting percentage to remove said director at
>whatever they liked – there is now low watermark – it is subject to
>whatever is in the constitution (as per section 138.2 of the companies act)
>2. Once (a) was completed – call a second SGMM –  for the express
>purpose of the removal of one or more directors – send out the notice of
>said meeting with the required 14 day notice period - and then pass a
>resolution as permitted by the process performed in (a)
>
>
>
> Now – for those who want all the gruesome details – keep reading.
>
>
>
> So I’ve had some time – and some of what I said was inaccurate – though
> not all of it – so let me explain my view point and we can then take it
> from  there:
>
>
>
> Firstly – the company has no shareholders – it has members (the registered
> directors being the ones with the legal liability and the fiduciary
> responsibility)
>
>
>
> What this means is that effectively the Afrinic members are powerless –
> unless you follow the idea that as non-registered members we hold the same
> rights as shareholders would.  This has been the line from the board many
> times before this community – though I have occasionally found this to be
> pretty selective – choosing what suits them as a need for registered
> members vs standard members.
>
>
>
> But – if we are to assume that members have the rights of shareholders –
> for arguments sake – then we have to refer to two points – one being the
> companies act and the other being the bylaws.
>
>
>
> AfriNIC is a private company – it has 9 members – therefore – we have to
> discount the following:
>
>
>
> Section 138 of the companies act:
>
>
>
> (1) *Notwithstanding anything in its constitution* or in any agreement
> between it and a director, a director of a *public* company may be
> removed from office by an ordinary resolution passed at a meeting called
> for the purpose that include the removal of a director.
>
>
>
> What this means is – in a public company – the shareholders can remove a
> director – and it doesn’t matter what the bylaws or constitution say – they
> have the right via a 50% majority at an SGMM to revoke a director.
>
>
>
> So – and this is where I err’ed:
>
>
>
> (2) *Subject to the constitution of a company*, a director of a private
> company may be removed from office by *special resolution* passed at a
> meeting called for the purpose that include the removal of the director.
>
>
>
> (3) The notice of meeting shall state that the purpose of the meeting is
> the removal of the director.
>
>
>
> What this says is – if the bylaws allowed it – we could remove a director
> via special resolution at an SGMM – now – it could be argued that the
> bylaws do not PREVENT this – however – they do offer an alternative – so my
> guess is – those who say that only directors can remove a director could be
> technically correct – and it would come down to legal interpretation – it
> would be interesting to see what happened if someone chose to attempt to
> invoke this if the board would see fit to fight it or realize that anyone
> who has managed to get the SGMM together probably has sufficient backing
> that they have lost the faith of this community – would 

Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Annual Financial Statements 2016

[Boubakar Barry]

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Alan Barrett 
wrote:

>
> > On 17 Jun 2017, at 18:07, Noah  wrote:
> > Let me ask this differently perhaps I will get a clear answer.
> >
> > Ref: Defaulted members:  how much recovered space from 2015, 2016 and
> 2017 and where are these recovered  ressoutces?
>
> I’ll find out.  I don’t see a privacy concern in reporting the total
> amount of recovered space.
>
> > You are concerned about closed member privacy yet this is public
> information,  how many  members have since closed?
>
> As I said, I am seeking legal advice on whether or not information about
> closed memebrs may be published.
>

In my opinion, there shouldn't be a privacy issue in providing the _number_
of members resources have been recovered from; exactly as for the amount of
recovered space. Is legal advice really needed for this?

Boubakar


>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Incident between myself and Prof. Quaynor

[Boubakar Barry]

Given past and recent events, if I were at AIS17, I would recommend Andrew
face to face to take some "leave" from wanting to serve in governing bodies
such as the AfriNIC Board.

He has been involved for many years in too many discussions/actions that
are more controversial than conciliation acts.

I would recommend him to think about how he can serve our community
differently and better, and not necessarily from his current position.

At least for now.

Boubakar


On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Badru Ntege 
wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> On 5/30/17, 7:04 PM, "Benjamin Eshun"  wrote:
>
> Owen
>
> Your genuine comments are duly noted bellow.  But the world over people
> with the best intentions to service all mess up somewhere and are
> accountable.  We have seen people resign from top positions in the US for
> failing to submit information.
>
> What makes it so different for Africa.  250 people are here at AIS because
> they have a passion for the community.  No one has a monopoly on passion.
>
> In my book the community has been very clear that this behavior is
> unacceptable, and the routine apology won’t work since we know it will
> happen again.
>
> I was actually thinking that what powers do Nomcom have in this situation,
> since they seem to have put a candidate on the slate who has proven that he
> might not be fit to be a board member.
>
> We need to start somewhere and I think this is a perfect place to start.
>
> Andrew needs to do the civil thing accept his weakness and take a break
> from the board and reflect on how he can control his behavior to serve the
> community better in future.
>
> Benjamin
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Regular updates on Number Resource Applications and Approvals

[Boubakar Barry]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Mark Elkins  wrote:

>
> When we are in the Soft-Landing part of IPv4 or better still, the last
> 25% of soft-landing - then maybe this could be an appropriate idea. The
> community can view and therefore report on any suspicious applications.
> This would probably make the whole assignment process take longer -
> which should be less of an issue then.
>

I wouldn't wait until then to monitor and act on suspicious applications.

This brings up again the need for seriously considering the proposed audit
policy. If something has escaped us, we can recall resources that were
acquired through fraudulent applications.

Boubakar


>
>
> >
> > Dewole.
> >
> >
> > On 07/11/2016 16:09, Mark Elkins wrote:
> >>
> >> On 07/11/2016 16:53, Dewole Ajao wrote:
> >>> Once a week is good. ARIN has a daily issued feed but that's a bit
> >>> different from what I'm suggesting.
> >>>
> >>> I agree the actual allocated/assigned ranges need not be disclosed; I
> do
> >>> however think that sharing the names of (applicant) organizations will
> >>> help with responsibility and possibly reduce the occurrence of phony
> >>> applications (if there have been any).
> >>
> >> Isn't that basically declaring you don't trust AFRINIC staff to do the
> >> right thing?
> >>
> >>
> >> What I tend to hear (happened twice today) is that the Hostmasters are
> >> so strict - its extremely difficult to get things done (according to the
> >> entities moaning at me).
> >>
> >> I therefore trust the Hostmasters - they are doing the right thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Dewole.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 07/11/2016 15:35, Mark Elkins wrote:
>  Interesting. I think though a once-a-week stats figure would be
>  sufficient - perhaps with a projected end date?
>  I've seen that before somewhere
> 
>  AFRINIC should not give out the names of the organisations receiving
> the
>  address space or the actual ranges themselves though.
> 
>  On 07/11/2016 16:29, Dewole Ajao wrote:
> > Dear Community,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone else thinks it would be useful to see
> > weekly/daily details (in human readable format) of new applications
> and
> > approvals for Internet number resources perhaps as a weekly/daily
> email
> > from AFRINIC to this (or the members) list.
> >
> > Given increased depletion rates, I think having these details in
> > (almost) real-time will increase the community's awareness rather
> than
> > rely solely on the biannual statistical updates (which in any case do
> > not contain details of who is making attempts to acquire number
> > resources). I think the Org Name, Country, Type and size of resource
> > requested/approved would be even more useful than the resource
> type/size
> > and country data already available in delegation stats at
> > ftp://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/
> >
> > This would be purely operational and a community value addition so it
> > should not require a new policy, right?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dewole Ajao.
> > (in my capacity as a community member)
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> m...@posix.co.za   Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Boubakar Barry]

I said it was the last thing I will say on this.

This is not a one to one dialogue and I will elaborate on this very trivial
issue only if other members of the community think that what I have posted
on this issue is not clear enough.

Boubakar


On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:04 PM, Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Sorry – But what you are saying here still does not make sense to me, and
> I really would like to understand your argument better.
>
>
>
> You are saying that limiting proxies limits vote buying because someone
> can buy a signed piece of paper – ok – now lets look at electronic voting…
>
>
>
> What is preventing someone from paying someone to not look at the
> candidates at all and log in, and say “vote for this person” – absolutely
> nothing – the same thing occurs.
>
>
>
> Personally I don’t believe that there is any situation where buying votes
> in the context of AfriNIC would make any sense whatsoever and I just don’t
> see it ever happening – but if we want to be paranoid and protect against
> it – limiting proxies certainly won’t do that.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Boubakar Barry <boubakarba...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 4 October 2016 at 23:00
> *To: *Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>
> *Cc: *Hytham El-Nakhal <hyt...@tra.gov.eg>, "community-discuss@afrinic.net"
> <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum
>
>
>
> To be honest, I just read the beginning of your email. Many other
> important things to do.
>
> Just to say: for a resource member who really doesn't care about how
> AfriNIC is managed/governed and just wants to get its resources (and there
> is a load of them if you look at meetings attendance and participation in
> the mailing lists), it makes a huge difference between looking at
> candidates profiles before logging in to vote and signing a pre-filled form.
>
> My last 2 cents on this. Members and the community should decide.
>
> B.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Andrew Alston <
> andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
> Speaking in my own personal capacity.
>
>
>
> Firstly – You don’t eliminate the risk of bought votes by limiting proxies
> – it makes absolutely zero difference – because the person could just as
> easily pay someone to vote a particular way electronically.
>
>
>
> Secondly – The reason that people give others proxies is often more than
> just votes – the voting aspect of it is just another element of the proxy
> that can be exercised at the same time.  Companies may well want their
> voices heard at an AGMM that they cannot be present at – so they issue a
> proxy and the individual carrying the proxy then speaks on their behalf *
> *AND** votes on their behalf
>
>
>
> Thirdly – If we determine that the current wording in the bylaws is
> invalid or out of sync with the act or has giant problems with it – the
> only way to fix that is to the fix the bylaws – and calling for this to be
> fixed won’t help until someone actually proposes new wording to fix the
> issue – and then sees if it will get the majority that is required for the
> bylaw change.   Personally, having read the responses on this list – I do
> not see a consensus for a proxy limitation at all – so I have my personal
> doubts that such a bylaw change would succeed – but it is still the only
> way to actually rectify the problem.  (Due to the fact that for all the
> reasons I have stated, even if we take the act out of the picture, the
> current bylaw limit is in my view invalid since proxies aren’t granted to
> members, they are granted to individuals).
>
>
>
> Note: I personally will have zero issue if someone attempts to put a
> special resolution for anything on the floor – and I would encourage people
> who really believe that this is limit SHOULD be there to do exactly that –
> attempt to fix the wording in the bylaws such that there is actually a
> legitimate limit.  I just doubt it would pass a 75% majority based on what
> I have seen on this list so far – where I see absolutely no consensus for
> such a limit.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Boubakar Barry <boubakarba...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 4 October 2016 at 22:44
> *To: *Hytham El-Nakhal <hyt...@tra.gov.eg>
> *Cc: *"community-discuss@afrinic.net" <community-discuss@afrinic.net>
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum
>
>
>
> In many countries, and not only in Africa, people buy votes and/or vote
> differently than instr

Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Boubakar Barry]

I don't think it's about diplomacy; it's rather about politeness and
maturity.

Boubakar

On Monday, 3 October 2016, Alan Barrett  wrote:

> Dear Andrew,
>
> I ask that you use more diplomatic words to express your opinions.
>
> Alan Barrett
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

[Boubakar Barry]

This whole discussion looks like confronting the company act AfriNIC has to
comply with as an organisation registered in Mauritius with the bylaws that
the community wishes AfriNIC to have as governance guideline.

Reading some of the contributions, I have the impression that AfriNIC has
been operating illegally all that time in Mauritius.

Everyone knows what guided us to chose Mauritius as admin/legal host for
AfriNIC. We wanted to be pragmatic and move forward as quickly as possible,
and Mauritius offered good conditions. Things have evolved, but we should
not erect barriers against ourselves where there are none.

Personally, I do think that if there are major contradictions between the
MU company act and the AfriNIC bylaws, the latter putting  community
concerns and consensus in the center, then we have to look for other
alternatives.

What happened today in the Internet ecosystem should inspire us to thrive
to put community in the center of our preoccupations. The rest will follow,
namely identifying the best possible jurisdiction(s) that can take into
account our bottom-up, consensus driven processes.

Boubakar


On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Andrew Alston <
andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Alain,
>
> Quite frankly – I think what you have said here is, at best, extremely
> naive and at worst incredibly irresponsible.
>
> Yes, AfriNIC is a community of members that believes in a bottom up
> approach.  You are correct there – and within the bounds of the law the
> bottom up process must be respected.
>
> However – AfriNIC is also a registered legal entity, subject to the bounds
> of a legal act, in the jurisdiction in which it is domiciled.
>
> There are sections of the companies act that can be overridden by a
> company’s bylaws (Referred to in the act as the company’s constitution),
> and sections that cannot.  The act is very explicit about any section that
> cannot be overridden.  For example, the companies act as refers to proxies
> specifically states:
>
>  Fifth Schedule, section 6, subsection e(ii):
>
> Clause 6 other than paragraph (d)(v) shall apply notwithstanding any
> contrary provision in any constitution adopted by the company.
>
> What you are advocating below is to ignore the law for convenience sake –
> or because the will of the majority wish us to ignore the law.  To do so
> creates legal liability, which in turn could result in tremendous financial
> liability of the company, potentially place any elected director at risk of
> legal action and sequestration were the board to sanction an action outside
> of the law, and place the entire entity at risk.
>
> We have all watched the IANA transition of late, and all welcomed the fact
> that the transition is proceeding.  But there is something to learn from
> that process – at all times – the law was followed, and was respected.  Do
> you believe that because the will of the Internet community said it should
> go ahead, had the amicus brief filed yesterday and the subsequent hearing
> to block the baseless injunction that was filed failed, the law would have
> been ignored because that is what the people wished?  I think not.
>
> It scares me to death when I see people who have stood for board
> positions, and in some case former board members, advocating for ignoring
> the law.  It reminds me of what I have seen in South Africa in recent
> years, where countless times the incumbent government has ignored the law
> because they thought they could.  In the end – time and again the courts
> have ruled against them and slapped them down, at huge expense to both the
> party and the country as a whole.
>
> Yes – the community must have their say – yes the bylaws must be respected
> – but at the end of the day, the law is supreme, the law cannot be
> violated, not for you, not for me, not for convenience, but because it is
> exactly that.  The Law.  Badru has time and again stated that there are
> other juristrictions if we do not like the current laws – though in most
> cases when this has been stated, I’ve actually gone and looked at the
> various companies acts in a number of countries and found the laws to be
> similar if not identical.  So, if you don’t like the laws, put a special
> resolution to the floor to move AfriNIC.  Then – abide by the result that
> comes if you fail to get the super majority that is required.
> Alternatively, accept that the community as a whole is happy with the
> current legal state.
>
> However – do not advocate for violating the law (because that is what you
> are doing when you suggest we ignore the law) because it seems expedient –
> that is totally irresponsible and outright dangerous.  I for one also pray
> that the board is never made up of individuals who believe the law can be
> violated and ignored at will – because it will be the very death of the
> organization for which so many have given so much to bring to this point.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 01/10/2016, 16:54, "ALAIN AINA" 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - bylaws changes

[Boubakar Barry]

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Jackson Muthili 
wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Douglas Onyango 
> wrote:
> > Hi Alan,
> > Thanks for sharing this document. It will form a solid basis for
> continued
> > deliberation on amendments of the bylaws.
> >
> > Regarding #1, specifically the Associate Members' right to (or not)
> vote, I
> > was, and still I am opposed to the idea of rescinding the Associate
> Members
> > rights to vote.
> >
> > Rationale: when an Associate Member is stripped of  the right to vote,
> > he/she is in reality as empowered -- or un-empowered -- as the rest of
> the
> > AFRINIC community. AFRINIC would effectively be asking Associate members
> and
> > prospects to fork out Associate Membership fees, but offering nothing
> over
> > and above "AFRINIC community" status, which poses at least two problems:
> > First, NO ONE of sound mind, with full understanding of these facts,
> would
> > want to be an Associate members, and  secondly, AFRINIC would be
> out-rightly
> > fleecing its members by charging membership fees and providing no value
> in
> > return, neither one of which is desirable.
> >
> > Therefore, the Associate Membership category should be imbued with voting
> > rights -- or some other value add that is codified in the bylaws, barring
> > which the category should effectively be expunged from the bylaws.
>
> +1
>
> If any tier is named "member", such as "associate member"; such tier
> MUST be given voting rights. Absent of this - it would be a useless
> membership status. Why be a member of an establishment that cannot let
> one exercise a simple right like a vote to enable effect change?
>
> Let associate members vote or get rid of this membership tier. Simple.
>
>
Not sure it's as simple as that.

Do we want to encourage people/organisations to be be associate members
just because of granted voting rights that have the potential of affecting
resource members only?

I know of organisations in which members are happy to be non-voting
associate members because it gives them opportunities to contribute
financially to the sustainability of these organisations, without
benefiting from core services. Just because they share values of these
organisations and want to support them.

We can of course think of advantages we can give to associate members  to
acknowledge their commitment and support. But I would not support giving
voting rights to associate members. I would rather be for removing this
membership category instead.

B.


>
>
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > On 16 September 2016 at 17:17, Alan Barrett 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 10 June, I posted a document describing potential areas for
> improvement
> >> in the Bylaws as a result of an accountability assessment.  I invited
> the
> >> community and membership to comment on these issues.
> >>
> >> I have considered the discussion, and I have asked the legal adviser to
> >> draft appropriate changes to the bylaws.  In some cases, I have edited
> the
> >> legal adviser’s text.  In some cases, more drafting work is needed and
> >> proposed text of bylaws changes is not yet available.
> >>
> >> I attach a document with the proposed bylaws changes.
> >>
> >> Alan Barrett
> >> CEO, AFRINIC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > UG: +256 776 716 138
> >
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: Re: AFRINIC Strategic Plan - Post 2016

[Boubakar Barry]

I do think indeed that members should know what the Board thinks where
AfriNIC should heading to, so that we can eventually contribute.

Boubakar


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Noah  wrote:

> Dear Chair
>
> FYI Just incase you missed this.
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "Noah" 
> Date: 30 Jun 2016 10:33
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Strategic Plan - Post 2016
> To: "General Discussions of AFRINIC" 
> Cc:
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Noah  wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:05 PM, serge ilunga 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> BoD Chair, can you please share with the community the new Strategic
>>> Plan?
>>>
>>> I couldn't find anything on the AFRINIC website.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Chairman AFRINIC BoD,
>>
>> I am not sure if this email was received. So as a reminder, could anyone
>> from the Board please point some of us to the document or place we can read
>> about the *Strategic Plan for the organisation* that was announced at
>> Gaborone Meeting?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
 Is there any activity plan for the current year?

>>>
>>> I think for the above, AFRINIC is best positioned to share the 2016
>>> Activity Plan which obviously should be based on this new SP.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> We we also have the *Activity Plan* for this year and how we expect to
>> see the organisation continue to grow based on the *New Strategic Plan?*
>>
>>
>>
>>> Noah
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Accountability assessment

[Boubakar Barry]

I think these amendments are reasonable and would contribute to the
improvement of AfriNIC's governance. I support them.

Boubakar


On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 12:04 PM, ALAIN AINA  wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Other points we may want to consider. See below:
>
> 1- Amend 4.2 to add membership consultation and community notification for
> at least 6 months before applying adopted new fees schedule.
>
> "Fees review must be done in consultation with the members and community
> must be notified at least six(6) months before new adopted fees schedule
> takes effect."
>
> ++ current
> 4.2 The fees mentioned in Article 4.1 above shall be subject to review
> from time to time by the Board.
> ++
>
>
> 2- Amend 13.4 to clarify that all directors are elected upon
> recommendations by NOMCOM, while keep the competency requirements for the
> non regional.
>
> + current
> 13.4 The Board shall comprise of nine (9) Directors appointed as follows:
>
> (i) Six Directors elected by the Annual General Member Meeting called
> under Article 11.1 of this Constitution to represent each of the regions
> listed in Article 13.5; (Seats 1 to 6)
>
> (ii) Two Directors elected by the Annual General Member Meeting called
> under Article 11.1 upon the recommendation of the NomCom based on their
> competencies and not their regional representation; and (Seats 7 and 8)
>
> (iii) The Chief Executive Officer. (Seat 9)
> +
>
> 3-   Amend  14 to add provisions for director recall by the membership :
>
> - Process starts by petition of minimum 10% of the total membership
> - Challenged director given opportunity to address the community
> - Recall approved by 75% of the votes
>
>  current
> 14 REMOVAL OF DIRECTORS
>
> 14.1 A Director shall hold office until:
>
> (i) his term of office expires, without prejudice to Article 13;
>
> (ii) he/she signs a written notice of resignation and delivers it to the
> address for service on the Company, which notice shall be effective when it
> is received at that address or at such later time as may be specified in
> the notice;
>
> (iii) he/she is removed by the affirmative vote of two-thirds of all other
> Directors;
>
> (iv) he/she otherwise ceases to be a Director pursuant to Section 139 of
> the Act; or
>
> (v) the Director being the Chief Executive Officer, on the Board
> terminating his employment as Chief Executive Officer.
> +
>
>
> 4-  Amend 12.10 (ii)   to set the quorum at 10% of the total membership
> either present physically or remotely
>
>
> +++ current
> 12.10 Quorum.
>
> (ii) The quorum for an Annual General Member meeting shall be composed of
> minimum of ten (10) members in person comprising:
>
> a) Four (4) Directors elected to represent a region;
>
> b) One (1) Director elected on a non-regional criterion; and
>
> c) Five (5) Resource Members.
> +++
>
>
> 5- Amend 12.11 to set  minimum number of votes. For all vote, a minimum of
> votes from 10% of the total eligible voters required.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> —Alain
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Omo Oaiya  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10 June 2016 at 11:18, Alan Barrett  wrote:
>
>> Arising from a review of AFRINIC’s Bylaws and other documents, several
>> potential areas for improvement were identified.
>>
>> The attached document was presented to the AFRINIC Membership and the
>> community during the AGMM in Gaborone, Botswana, on 9 June 2016.
>>
>> I invite the community and the membership to comment on these
>> suggestions, or any other areas where the Bylaws could be improved.
>> Comments should be sent to the community-discuss@afrinic.net mailing
>> list.  In due course, Bylaws changes will be drafted to implement the
>> suggestions (and additional points that might be identified).
>>
>> Alan Barrett
>> CEO, AFRINIC
>>
>>
>
> Thanks Alan.  Comments below
>
>
> >>>1 ..  but there is a conflict between 7.2(i) and 13.7(i) on whether
>> or not Associate Members may vote in elections forDirectors. This conflict
>> must be resolved one way or another.
>> We need to decide whether or not Associate Members should vote, and
>> modify the Bylaws to give effect to that decision
>
>
> Just a matter of ambiguity in the statement in 7.2(i) to straighten out.
> The bylaws are consistent.  Registered and Resource members vote. Associate
> members observe.
>
>
> >>>2.  Interchangeable use of the terms “Bylaw” or “Bylaws” and
>> “Constitution”:.. Suggest adding a clause 1.3 to clarify that this
>> document may be referred to by the term “Bylaws” or “Constitution”, and is
>> intended to serve the function of the Constitution in terms of the
>> Companies Act of Mauritius.
>
>
> Supported
>
>
> >>3- Clarification that all Registered Members in terms of Bylaws 6.3, and
>> only such Registered Members, must be registered in terms of the Companies
>> Act as members of the company.
>
>
> Supported but we shall seriously consider moving from this Private company
> 

Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015

[Boubakar Barry]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Randy Bush  wrote:

> >>> Very shocked by the language used in some postings.
> >>
> >> care to quote the shocking language?
> >
> > Most members of our community are far more intelligent than you may
> think.
> > No need to ask me/them this question.
> >
> > Please don't post privately to me.
>
> and please do not post private correspondence publicly.  it has been
> considered very rude for a few decades.
>
> and i think you have answered my question.  thank you.
>

You're most welcome.

And the above line will be my last exchange with you on this.

B.


>
> randy
>


-- 
CEO/Directeur Général, WACREN
P.O. Box 5353 Dakar-Fann, Senegal
Mob.: +221 776390393 / +233 246682059
Web: http://www.wacren.net

***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)***
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