Re: [computer-go] UCT vs MC
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm curious about the full width depth and the principal variation depth to compare UCT wilth alpha-beta. The comparison is not so easy to do I think, because using MC as an evaluation function for alpha beta, you have to do several simulations for one evaluation and take the average. So the question is how many simulations to do (tradeoff false alpha-beta cuts/depth)? The right should be the number which makes the stronger player. I did not made such experiments. Perhaps someone did? My old program Viking5 used alphabeta with monte carlo evaluation and alpha-beta search. Valkyria uses UCT and similar code for Monte Carlo evaluation. One cannot compared these programs directly since they do not share code. But I would guess that alkyria would search the principle variation to 20-100% deeper depth than Viking5 would. The cost is that Valkyria might sometimes get stuck on the second best move. In the opening the difference is probably small becuase UCT searches quite uniform, but if there is fighting where critical stones are very unstable the seacrh can get very deep if there are many forcing moves. I know at least one 9x9 position where Valkyria can search forced sequences to 15 ply, but normally perhaps it might get 4-5 meaningful nodes deep where Viking5 would get 3 ply. It is also tricky to compare the principal eval of UCT with alpha-beta because near the leaf the number of visits to the nodes are less than what could be considered sound MC-eval. When I print out principal variations I stop as soon as the number of visits for a node is less than 1000. This means that the moves in the pruned principle variation is of high quality. For alpha-beta a similar effect can be seen by choosing different amounts of simulations for the eval. Normally a few 100 simulations is necessary but one could make 1 simulation eval that spits out very deep evals that unfortunately is almost random. -Magnus ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Time Zones (was Re: [computer-go] KGS Slow tournament)
correct. We have British Summer Time (GMT+1) from Spring to Autumn (Fall), so the Mac widget probably adjusts for that. On 1/1/07, Peter Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An interesting report. I have a question about a line near the end where you address the two meanings of UCT: UCT as applied to times stands for Universal Coordinate Time. It is the same, for most practical purposes including ours, as GMT, Greenwich Mean Time, the time zone based on London, England. I had an experience where I set a Mac OS X Dashboard Widget clock to London time, and it was an hour off from UCT. I could only get the correct time by using Dakar as the city. Does London use something like Daylight Savings Time, making London time the same as GMT/UCT only part of the year? Peter Drake Assistant Professor of Computer Science Lewis Clark College http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ On Dec 23, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: I have written up the week's Slow KGS bot tournament. My report, which is fuller than usual, is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/s1/index.html I think that, despite various accidents, the event was a success. I plan to hold another one, but only after the next release of the KGS server fixes the five minute rule bug. Congratulations to the winner, MoGoBot19! Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Chrilly, I find it pretty amazing that even a little money will inspire people to play a computer who wouldn't otherwise. Many years ago my old chess programs were welcome at tournaments, but as soon as players started losing, the program wore out it's welcome! The change was like night and day. We came to one tournament and almost everyone signed the refuse to play a computer list. So I offered 5 dollars for a draw and 10 dollars for a win. This tiny incentive caused almost all the players to agree to play the computer and in fact many players begged to play it. What was ironic, was that didn't pay out a single penny but everyone was happy! I don't think you understand how mean Go players are. Many of them have beards because they are too mean to pay for razors. Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Time Zones (was Re: [computer-go] KGS Slow tournament)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes An interesting report. I have a question about a line near the end where you address the two meanings of UCT: UCT as applied to times stands for Universal Coordinate Time. It is the same, for most practical purposes including ours, as GMT, Greenwich Mean Time, the time zone based on London, England. I had an experience where I set a Mac OS X Dashboard Widget clock to London time, and it was an hour off from UCT. I could only get the correct time by using Dakar as the city. Does London use something like Daylight Savings Time, making London time the same as GMT/UCT only part of the year? In the winter, London uses UCT; in the summer, it uses BST, which is one hour ahead of UCT. Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
- Original Message - From: Nick Wedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hi Chrilly, I find it pretty amazing that even a little money will inspire people to play a computer who wouldn't otherwise. Many years ago my old chess programs were welcome at tournaments, but as soon as players started losing, the program wore out it's welcome! The change was like night and day. We came to one tournament and almost everyone signed the refuse to play a computer list. So I offered 5 dollars for a draw and 10 dollars for a win. This tiny incentive caused almost all the players to agree to play the computer and in fact many players begged to play it. What was ironic, was that didn't pay out a single penny but everyone was happy! I don't think you understand how mean Go players are. Many of them have beards because they are too mean to pay for razors. Nick -- I thought that the Go and chess community is different. Chrilly ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
The Cotsen Open has a cash prize for the best computer program, which I felt somewhat guilty accepting after loosing all games due to the bug, but SlugGo was the only program entered this year, and the cash did help to offset the cost of renting the wheelchair van with hydraulic ramp that I needed to transport the cluster. Why does Slu-Go not play remote? E.g the only thing I transported to London for playing against GM Adams was a notebook. The Hydra-Cluster would have been a little bit difficult to transport. Even in Abu-Dhabi the operating is remote. The Hydra-Sheikh sits in his palace and the Cluster is in another part of the town. Its for the chess-engine completly transparent. The engine writes/reads to stdout/stdin. If the GUI is on the same PC, the communication is directly done. When playing remote SSH (Secure Shell) is started and the rest goes as before. Chrilly P.S.: There are some chances that not only Hydra but also Mona Lisa will be placed in Abu-Dhabi. Louvre-III is planned for Abu-Dhabi. (Louvre-II in Atlanta). 1 billion $ is a very convincing argument. Officially are only the plans for Louvre-III, but as I know the Abu-Dhabi Sheiks they will put all effort to get at least for some time Mona Lisa. They always want the best/most exclusive. And I also know from own experience that nobody can resisit the smell of Petro-$. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
