Re: [Computer-go] Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning Algorithm

[Joshua Shriver]

What about arimaa?

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:28 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote:
> It seems, we are living in extremely
> heavy times ...
>
> I want to go to bed now and meditate for threee days.
>
>> DeepMind makes strongest Chess and Shogi programs with AlphaGo Zero method.
>> Mastering Chess and Shogi by Self-Play with a General Reinforcement Learning 
>> Algorithm
>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.01815.pdf
>>
>> AlphaZero(Chess) outperformed Stockfish after 4 hours,
>> AlphaZero(Shogi) outperformed elmo after 2 hours.
>
> It may sound strange, but at the moment my only hopes for
> games too difficult for AlphaZero might be
>
> * a connection game like Hex (on 19x19 board)
>
> * a game like Clobber (based on CGT)
>
> Mastering Clobber would mean that also the concept of
> combinatorial game theory would be "easily" learnable.
>
>
> Side question: Would the classic Nim game be
> a trivial nut for AlphaZero ?
>
> Ingo (is now starting to hope for an AlphaZero type program
> that can do "general" mathematical research).
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Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo watch parties planned across U.S.

[Joshua Shriver]

Where can it be viewed online?

-Josh

On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:09 PM, Ray Tayek  wrote:
> http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/05/alphago-watch-parties-planned-across-u-s/
>
> looks like 10:30 pm monday.
>
> thanks
>
> --
> Honesty is a very expensive gift. So, don't expect it from cheap people -
> Warren Buffett
> http://tayek.com/
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved

[Joshua Shriver]

Is there a specific site to go to to sign up on the new list or was
everything migrated transparently?

-Josh

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:50 AM, Xavier Combelle
 wrote:
> Strangely enougth I received all the said messages
>
>
> Le 23/01/2017 à 06:20, "Ingo Althöfer" a écrit :
>> ... and also not my own one from 2 minutes ago.
>> I can only look it up in the archives.
>>
>> Strange.
>>
>> Ingo.
>>
>>
>>> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 02:37 Uhr
>>> Von: computer...@roveg.org
>>> An: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
>>> Betreff: [Computer-go] ADMIN:  Lists Have Moved
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>  The lists are running in a new place. The
>>> archives and membership options should all be
>>> the same.  If you have any problems, please let me
>>> know.
>>>  Thanks!
>>>  Michael
>>>
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[Computer-go] computergo.org domain

[Joshua Shriver]

My domain expires in 6 days, so heads up it's free to grab if anyone wants it.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] computergo.org

[Joshua Shriver]

I run a couple webservers, so I don't even mind hosting a site.  I
just don't have the time to invest in maintaining it, updating, etc.
Love the suggestions though.



-Josh

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Jim O'Flaherty
<jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I hear you volunteering to create and maintain that site/page? {smirk}
>
> On Mar 19, 2016 6:40 AM, "Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira" <go...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>
>> Instead of just redirecting, it could be a directory page for:
>> - various Nick Wedd pages
>> - CGOS
>> - mailing lists
>> - the game AI forum
>> - news sites
>> - aggregators of tournament information, ICGA
>> - aggregator or list of upcoming conferences
>> - links to software and tools
>> - lists of publications, Martin Müller's page, etc
>>
>> Gonçalo
>>
>>
>> On 19/03/2016 01:07, Joshua Shriver wrote:
>> > Agree, main reason I snagged it was mostly to make sure it would be
>> > used and not end up some spam or adult site.
>> >
>> > I do like the idea of re-directing and that could be done in minutes.
>> > Which do you feel is better the host of this list, or the .info one?
>> >
>> > -Josh
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:58 PM, David Doshay <ddos...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >> sorry about that auto-correct ‘typo. The first one is supposed to be
>> >> computergo.org, but that should be clear anyway ...
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> David G Doshay
>> >>
>> >> ddos...@mac.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 18, Mar 2016, at 1:56 PM, David Doshay <ddos...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> From my perspective, having both a computer.org and a computer-go.org
>> >>> seems redundant.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> David G Doshay
>> >>>
>> >>> ddos...@mac.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 18, Mar 2016, at 12:49 PM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <go...@sapo.pt>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I don't know how up-to-date computer-go.info is, but it appears a
>> >>>> better
>> >>>> target for redirecting.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Gonçalo
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 18/03/2016 19:46, Xavier Combelle wrote:
>> >>>>> 2016-03-17 16:16 GMT+01:00 Joshua Shriver <jshri...@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Does anyone have interest in that domain name? I'd be willing to
>> >>>>>> transfer it to a new owner for free.  It came up a year or so back
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>> I grabbed it just in case but never used it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Rather see it go to someone who can use it rather than squat. It's
>> >>>>>> already for another year.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -Josh
>> >>>>>> ___
>> >>>>>> Computer-go mailing list
>> >>>>>> Computer-go@computer-go.org
>> >>>>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I would vote for redirecting to computer-go.org if everybody agree
>> >>>>> (or the
>> >>>>> other direction should be good too)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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>
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[Computer-go] computergo.org

[Joshua Shriver]

Does anyone have interest in that domain name? I'd be willing to
transfer it to a new owner for free.  It came up a year or so back and
I grabbed it just in case but never used it.

Rather see it go to someone who can use it rather than squat. It's
already for another year.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] computergo.org

[Joshua Shriver]

Agree, main reason I snagged it was mostly to make sure it would be
used and not end up some spam or adult site.

I do like the idea of re-directing and that could be done in minutes.
Which do you feel is better the host of this list, or the .info one?

-Josh

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:58 PM, David Doshay <ddos...@mac.com> wrote:
> sorry about that auto-correct ‘typo. The first one is supposed to be 
> computergo.org, but that should be clear anyway ...
>
> Cheers,
> David G Doshay
>
> ddos...@mac.com
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 18, Mar 2016, at 1:56 PM, David Doshay <ddos...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> From my perspective, having both a computer.org and a computer-go.org seems 
>> redundant.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David G Doshay
>>
>> ddos...@mac.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 18, Mar 2016, at 12:49 PM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <go...@sapo.pt> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know how up-to-date computer-go.info is, but it appears a better
>>> target for redirecting.
>>>
>>> - Gonçalo
>>>
>>> On 18/03/2016 19:46, Xavier Combelle wrote:
>>>> 2016-03-17 16:16 GMT+01:00 Joshua Shriver <jshri...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have interest in that domain name? I'd be willing to
>>>>> transfer it to a new owner for free.  It came up a year or so back and
>>>>> I grabbed it just in case but never used it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rather see it go to someone who can use it rather than squat. It's
>>>>> already for another year.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Josh
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Computer-go mailing list
>>>>> Computer-go@computer-go.org
>>>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would vote for redirecting to computer-go.org if everybody agree (or the
>>>> other direction should be good too)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Wired: Google and Facebook Race to Solve the Ancient Game of Go With AI

[Joshua Shriver]

On a site note, I really feel bad for Kasparov. Seems like anytime
there is a human vs computer game match the news always brings up Deep
Blue.  It has to feel bad to always see your name time and time again
be used as a "loser" instead of the remarkable an legendary chess
player he is.

Just my $0.02
-Josh

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Rémi Coulom  wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-and-facebook-race-to-solve-the-ancient-game-of-go/
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Re: [Computer-go] Wired: Google and Facebook Race to Solve the Ancient Game of Go With AI

[Joshua Shriver]

My money is on Google they already have a lot of algo's for pattern
matching and analysis.  Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Nice link :)
-Josh

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Rémi Coulom  wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/2015/12/google-and-facebook-race-to-solve-the-ancient-game-of-go/
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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again

[Joshua Shriver]

Thank you so much for running CGOS!  Looks like it's running very
smoothly and  you are doing a great job.

Would you like me to take down the boardspace site, and make a referal
link to your CGOS?   That way we can migrate and make sure people are
all working on the right server.

-Josh

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now CGOS has recent 300 games on cross-table page.
> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/cross/CrazyStone-0002.html
> Back color red is Loss, and green is Draw.
>
> And I added BayesElo pages.
> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/bayes.html
> Thanks a lot for your support, Joshua!
>
> Now CGOS handles Draw in 9x9.
> Remi, is this setting OK? I also use your program "bayeselo".
>
> drawelo 0.01
>
> I found this from 8 yeae's ago mail.
> https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/msg05740.html
>
> In 19x19, two DCNN programs are running.
> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html
> DCNN-Detlf uses Detlef's network data.
> DCNN-No133 uses original learning data by Fukumoto-san, author of HiraBot.
> Both bot are running by Fukumoto-san, and they make a move without search.
>
> Regards,
> Hiroshi Yamashita
>
> - Original Message - From: "Rémi Coulom" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again
>
>
>> Hi Hiroshi,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for running CGOS!
>>
>> I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web
>> server:
>> Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800   @ 1.86GHz
>> I plan to let it play forever.
>>
>> I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I
>> suppose that may be on purpose.
>>
>> Rémi
>>
>> On 11/10/2015 02:11 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have started CGOS on my VPS(Virtual Private Server).
>>> 19x19 and 9x9 are running.
>>> In 9x9, komi is 7.0. Draw is 0.5 win in rating calc.
>>> I'll keep it running for a while.
>>> 13x13 is running on original server.
>>>
>>>   time   serverportkomi
>>> 9x9  5 minutesyss-aya.com   68097.0
>>> 19x19   15 minutesyss-aya.com   68197.5
>>> 13x13   10 minutescgos.boardspace.net   68137.5
>>>
>>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/
>>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/standings.html
>>> http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Hiroshi Yamashita
>>>
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[Computer-go] CGOS boardspace

[Joshua Shriver]

I did a restart of the 9x9 and 19x19 as a test. Anyone mind testing it
to see if you can connect?
I left 13x13 alone since it just worked.

Know a couple people have forked the cgos codebase which is wonderful!
 If anyone needs help Im willing to share info, or help best I can.  I
just had such a hard time getting the original version to stay up and
do apologize.

If someone would like to take over the cgos I can ask the site owner
to make sure then arrange a transfer of login credentials.

I sadly don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore.

-Josh

P.S. Sorry I let Don down.
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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again

[Joshua Shriver]

Thank you so much for running this!
-Josh

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita  wrote:
> Hi Remi,
>
>> I plan to let it play forever.
>
>
> That's awesome!
> Strong program is nice benchmark and motivation for others
> (of cource including me).
>
>> I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns.
>
>
> Yes, when Aya783a_50 resigns, it waits about 3 minutes in 9x9. And it
> waits 2sec each move. My VPS is very slow, about 400MHz. And Aya783a_50
> and some anchors run on it. So I feel it need wait. And too short game
> cycle makes big sqlite3 db. It is not good for server.
> Anyway I will run CGOS at least for a year.
>
> Hiroshi Yamashita
>
> - Original Message - From: "Rémi Coulom" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again
>
>
>> Hi Hiroshi,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for running CGOS!
>>
>> I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web
>> server:
>> Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800   @ 1.86GHz
>> I plan to let it play forever.
>>
>> I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I
>> suppose that may be on purpose.
>>
>> Rémi
>
>
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Re: [Computer-go] cgos 9x9

[Joshua Shriver]

It's on my agenda.  Just finished moving 1/2 across country so I'll
have time again to work on CGOS.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

BTW what version of Linux are you using?  Know CGOS is heavily
dependant on x64 systems.  Mostly due to library issues.

-Josh

On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 Hi,

 I really did not do a lot:

 mainly I run make in the server directory, and got an error message that the
 sqlite version did not match (after trying to start or imediatly, I do not
 remember)

 cgos.vfs/lib/sqlite3/pkgIndex.tcl:package ifneeded sqlite3 3.3.5

 this line had 3.3.4

 now I start with
 gnome-terminal --tab -e ./cgos-linux-x86_64 cgos19.cfg --tab -e
 ./webuild-linux-x86_64 cgos19.cfg --tab -e ./http_server.sh --tab -e
 ./cgosGtp-linux-x86_64 -c gnugo-3.8-a0.cfg

 with for web serving

 detlef@ubuntu-i7:~/cgosboar$ cat http_server.sh
 #!/bin/bash
 cd public_html
 python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080

 to have all 19x19 in one gnome-terminal

 As you see I run the binaries produced, not the way in the install.readme
 file.

 This is what my sources looks like, it is some months ago that I downloaded
 them..

 http://physik.de/cgossource.tar.gz


 My 9x9 webbuild sometimes crashes with database locked, I think this is
 because at the moment the games are very fast, but we will see


 Detlef

 P.S.: I do not have tcl experience, so repacking would be try and error


 Am 03.05.2015 um 07:35 schrieb Joshua Shriver:

 Would you be willing to help me revitalize cgos.computergo.org?  I can
 even give you ssh access.

 This we your server can sit on a dedicated IP/domain  and we can kinda
 refresh things a bit and have a clean work/server space.

 Just let me know.
 -Josh

 I'm still curious how you got around the myriad of SQLite issues. I
 know when I tried running local, I had to repackage the tclkit server
 by copying a local built sqlite.so. file
 Lots of kinks and issues, but to be honest you are doing a better job
 at me at understanding/running it.

 So I can at least offer dedicated space.

 On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:

 8084 for 25x25 with GnuGo 3.8 as ELO 1800 anachor is up for a while now
 :)

 9x9 too, (13x13 I will not set up, original cgos is running fine on
 13x13)

 Detlef

 Am 02.05.2015 um 07:21 schrieb Detlef Schmicker:

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to
 have
 it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set
 up
 everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Aye sqlite is nice but quirky at times.  Planning to use MySQL in my
own version.

Thanks for the snapshot!
-Josh



On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 Hi,

 I really did not do a lot:

 mainly I run make in the server directory, and got an error message that the
 sqlite version did not match (after trying to start or imediatly, I do not
 remember)

 cgos.vfs/lib/sqlite3/pkgIndex.tcl:package ifneeded sqlite3 3.3.5

 this line had 3.3.4

 now I start with
 gnome-terminal --tab -e ./cgos-linux-x86_64 cgos19.cfg --tab -e
 ./webuild-linux-x86_64 cgos19.cfg --tab -e ./http_server.sh --tab -e
 ./cgosGtp-linux-x86_64 -c gnugo-3.8-a0.cfg

 with for web serving

 detlef@ubuntu-i7:~/cgosboar$ cat http_server.sh
 #!/bin/bash
 cd public_html
 python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080

 to have all 19x19 in one gnome-terminal

 As you see I run the binaries produced, not the way in the install.readme
 file.

 This is what my sources looks like, it is some months ago that I downloaded
 them..

 http://physik.de/cgossource.tar.gz


 My 9x9 webbuild sometimes crashes with database locked, I think this is
 because at the moment the games are very fast, but we will see


 Detlef

 P.S.: I do not have tcl experience, so repacking would be try and error


 Am 03.05.2015 um 07:35 schrieb Joshua Shriver:

 Would you be willing to help me revitalize cgos.computergo.org?  I can
 even give you ssh access.

 This we your server can sit on a dedicated IP/domain  and we can kinda
 refresh things a bit and have a clean work/server space.

 Just let me know.
 -Josh

 I'm still curious how you got around the myriad of SQLite issues. I
 know when I tried running local, I had to repackage the tclkit server
 by copying a local built sqlite.so. file
 Lots of kinks and issues, but to be honest you are doing a better job
 at me at understanding/running it.

 So I can at least offer dedicated space.

 On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:

 8084 for 25x25 with GnuGo 3.8 as ELO 1800 anachor is up for a while now
 :)

 9x9 too, (13x13 I will not set up, original cgos is running fine on
 13x13)

 Detlef

 Am 02.05.2015 um 07:21 schrieb Detlef Schmicker:

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to
 have
 it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set
 up
 everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] Is CGOS 13x13 frozen for anyone else?

[Joshua Shriver]

Let me check the server, if need be will restart it.

-Josh

On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Igor Polyakov
weiqiprogramm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't been able to run my bot.
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Re: [Computer-go] Is CGOS 13x13 frozen for anyone else?

[Joshua Shriver]

Ok restarted, hope it pops back up ok.  Watching logs.

-Josh

On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Igor Polyakov
weiqiprogramm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't been able to run my bot.
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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Working on it :)

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 Thanks for connecting!

 Am 02.05.2015 um 08:11 schrieb remi.cou...@free.fr:

 Great! Thanks for your efforts. I have just connected Crazy Stone, and it
 seems to be working.

 My favorite setting would be 9x9 with 7-point komi. But unfortunately, I
 believe CGOS does not support jigo. Would be great if it did.

 I think you are right :(

 set sc [expr $sc - $komi]
 if { $sc  0.0 } {
 set sc [expr -$sc]
 set over W+$sc
 gameover $gid $over 
 return
 } else {
 set over B+$sc
 gameover $gid $over 
 return
 }

 This definitly looks like a jigo is not possible. I am afraid, I will
 probably not go into this. I still hope for a future CGOS replacement :)

 Detlef


 Rémi


 - Mail original -
 De: Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de
 À: computer-go@computer-go.org
 Envoyé: Samedi 2 Mai 2015 14:21:05
 Objet: [Computer-go] CGOS

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to
 have it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set
 up everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Forgot to mention there is another table called anchors.  Basically it
just has gnugo and set to (1800?) if memory serves.  This gets used in
bayeselo for comparison calculations.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

If you're using the github source for CGOS, (Don's)  CGOS uses an
external program. Basically dumps all games from the database, runs
bayeselo takes results and pushes back to the sqlite for the official
rating. But it doesn't seem to always work or update properly and if
the DB gets messed up on update it seems to mess up the cgos server
itself. This was one big reason I've had trouble getting 9x9 and 19x19
back up.

I'll have to check the crontab but it should show a tcl script that
fires off a sqlite3 dump and feeds bayeselo.
Did you make any changes to the git source to get it to run ok?
-Josh

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 Great,

 for the mean time: Do you have an idea, how the bayeselo rating is produced?
 My cgos source does not seem to include it?

 The archives are probably a hand made script?!

 Detlef

 Am 02.05.2015 um 09:25 schrieb Joshua Shriver:

 Working on it :)

 On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:

 Thanks for connecting!

 Am 02.05.2015 um 08:11 schrieb remi.cou...@free.fr:

 Great! Thanks for your efforts. I have just connected Crazy Stone, and
 it
 seems to be working.

 My favorite setting would be 9x9 with 7-point komi. But unfortunately, I
 believe CGOS does not support jigo. Would be great if it did.

 I think you are right :(

 set sc [expr $sc - $komi]
  if { $sc  0.0 } {
  set sc [expr -$sc]
  set over W+$sc
  gameover $gid $over 
  return
  } else {
  set over B+$sc
  gameover $gid $over 
  return
  }

 This definitly looks like a jigo is not possible. I am afraid, I will
 probably not go into this. I still hope for a future CGOS replacement
 :)

 Detlef

 Rémi


 - Mail original -
 De: Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de
 À: computer-go@computer-go.org
 Envoyé: Samedi 2 Mai 2015 14:21:05
 Objet: [Computer-go] CGOS

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to
 have it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set
 up everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Would you be willing to help me revitalize cgos.computergo.org?  I can
even give you ssh access.

This we your server can sit on a dedicated IP/domain  and we can kinda
refresh things a bit and have a clean work/server space.

Just let me know.
-Josh

I'm still curious how you got around the myriad of SQLite issues. I
know when I tried running local, I had to repackage the tclkit server
by copying a local built sqlite.so. file
Lots of kinks and issues, but to be honest you are doing a better job
at me at understanding/running it.

So I can at least offer dedicated space.

On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 8084 for 25x25 with GnuGo 3.8 as ELO 1800 anachor is up for a while now :)

 9x9 too, (13x13 I will not set up, original cgos is running fine on 13x13)

 Detlef

 Am 02.05.2015 um 07:21 schrieb Detlef Schmicker:

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to have
 it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set up
 everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Also how good are you and un-tcl packing and rebuilding?  Would LOVE
to have native packages with the cgos.computergo.org hard coded if
possible.
Anyway would love to work with you.

Side note, any OS X people here willing in the future to make OS X
client/view compiles from the future github? If we can get/KEEP the
current TCL just working for 9x9/13x13/19x19 I'm all game for that
since it JUST worked.

I already have a github up for my new open source CGOS I'm writing,
but want to get 9,13,19 running smoothly and open as possible till
then.

-Josh


On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 8084 for 25x25 with GnuGo 3.8 as ELO 1800 anachor is up for a while now :)

 9x9 too, (13x13 I will not set up, original cgos is running fine on 13x13)

 Detlef

 Am 02.05.2015 um 07:21 schrieb Detlef Schmicker:

 Hi,

 I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not
 optimal of cause :(

 physik.selfhost.eu

 Ports:
 8080 (webinterface)
 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor)

 This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to have
 it permanently running still to be seen.
 I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set up
 everything correctly.
 I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same
 machine

 future plan is:
 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25.
 (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are
 switched on.


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS future

[Joshua Shriver]

This sounds like a good idea and I haven't ruled out Java, but not the
biggest fan. But would rather do it in Java than say C.

I was leaning toward C# since it's a very popular and portable
language. The code would be portable among Win/Lin/OS X heck even
Android/iOS (for viewer)  due to Xamarin.

I'm working on the first baby-steps of just getting a very basic
server/client model up and running and as you said relying more on GTP
and the engines to do more self-checking and use cgos only as a
gateway (till next update).

Going to use mysql/mariasql instead of lightsql. Then I can use php
for the backend webwork.

I'm going to re-use some of the webcode I wrote years ago for OICS as
well so that will kickstart that portion a bit.

Will update more as things progress.
-Josh

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 What about just start the project on github or https://bitbucket.org/ (is
 not bad at forking and merging)

 Open an issue for the discussion and off we go:)

 When I was thinking of a quick solution I was thinking about gogui, which
 supports most of the game handling already.

 http://gogui.sourceforge.net/doc/reference-twogtp.html

 GoGui is well tested and widely used, as far as I know. The twogtp tool is
 used e.g. in CLOP and works really great. A observer program may be added to
 judge the resulting position, e.g.
 gnugo...

 The first server / client would not have to do much more than authorization
 and afterwords tunneling gtp to get it playing and logging the games and
 results?!

 The result logs would be used to compute the ratings (possibly by a
 independend process)?!

 I have no special wishes about programming language, but as kgsclient
 requires java anyway, java dependency is no additional dependency for new go
 programmer...

 I do not love java, but if one thinks of integrating the server into gogui
 it might be a good idea to use?!

 I would just start and try connecting Markus Enzenberger (author of GoGui
 later, if he is interested in merging?!)

 I would definitely work on the project, but it should have a quick start and
 room for improvement later:)

 Detlef



 Am 03.04.2015 um 16:11 schrieb Joshua Shriver:

 Agree as well.  But would like to offer both options.   Planning to
 use github and make it 100% open source.

 -Josh

 On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Christoph Birk
 b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:

 On Apr 3, 2015, at 5:40 AM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:

 My goal is to move away from interpreted languages and release SOLID
 .exe or bin for unices.

 Are you talking about servers or clients there?

 For clients, PLEASE do not release binaries, release sources. No sane
 linux user installs random binaries.

 I 100% agree,
 Christoph

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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS future

[Joshua Shriver]

Agree as well.  But would like to offer both options.   Planning to
use github and make it 100% open source.

-Josh

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Christoph Birk
b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:

 On Apr 3, 2015, at 5:40 AM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
 My goal is to move away from interpreted languages and release SOLID
 .exe or bin for unices.

 Are you talking about servers or clients there?

 For clients, PLEASE do not release binaries, release sources. No sane
 linux user installs random binaries.

 I 100% agree,
 Christoph

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[Computer-go] CGOS future

[Joshua Shriver]

BTW I greatly appreciate all the input! and put in TODO.txt

Since I do plan to make this open source and ON github.

Guess I'm looking for helper developers

I own like 12 servers so can host, while keeping the solid boardspace in tact.


In fact I just bought 2 more servers, 1 real 1 replication.

Again I'm curios of language??

I'm top at C/Perl for real contimplation

BTW I am a Linux guy true and true since 1994.  But I am DAMN tempted
to write it in C#. Especially w/ MS OSS .Net framework. WE always had
mono but right now. That is where I am REALLY leaning.

I don't even know C#,  but good at JAVA despite my hatred for the language lol.

My goal is to move away from interpreted languages and release SOLID
.exe or bin for unices.

Client viewer, client host for engine.


Seriously I am ok now, financially, and my hobby projects are mature.
I have time to REALLY drive in and make CGOS what it deserves. But
again it needs a pure re-write lol


BTW as the future maintainer, given any/all emails that come from this
thread. I ALSO appreciate emails from people recommending people.

It's easy to get 20+ ppl saying OMG I want to help.  But I need at
least 1-2 more core devs outside me, especially if I'm working in a
language outside my zone.

So I also ask fellow devs to post comments on what language you think
would be good for now/future prospects.


-Josh
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[Computer-go] Learning from CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

What elements did you like about CGOS and what do you wish for?

I've begun writing a new version from scratch that isn't TCL based.
With the aim for future use and also open source and open to public
commits.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?

[Joshua Shriver]

Mean the archive of .sgf games?  I have a couple backups.  If people
want a mega zip file I could get them all together and host it on the
web.
As for the live archive post game play it's kinda broken right now.
Same with 9x9 and 19x19, sadly.

-Josh

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 This is great, especially as the next KGS tournament is 13x13 :)

 Is there a way to get the CGOS archives back online? Or does anybody have a
 copy which he can offer?

 Would be really great

 Thanks Detlef


 Am 05.03.2015 um 08:23 schrieb valky...@phmp.se:

 At least the 13x13 server is working now.

 -Magnus

 On 2015-03-04 09:18, Urban Hafner wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Joshua Shriver jshri...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Thanks for the heads up *sigh*

 I really am contemplating re-writing CGOS from scratch. TCL is
 just
 quirky as hell. Plus would make updates easier and attract other
 developers or contributions.


 If you could find the time to do that then it would be pretty awesome!
 I cannot guarantee that I will have time to contribute, but I will
 certainly keep an eye on it. Personally, I'm really missing CGOS. The
 time it was up recently really helped me debug some errors in my bot.

 Urban--

 Blog: http://bettong.net/ [1]
 Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh [2]
 Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/ [3]

 Links:
 --
 [1] http://bettong.net/
 [2] https://twitter.com/ujh
 [3] http://www.urbanhafner.com/

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Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?

[Joshua Shriver]

Thanks for the heads up *sigh*

I really am contemplating re-writing CGOS from scratch.  TCL is just
quirky as hell.  Plus would make updates easier and attract other
developers or contributions.

-Josh

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
 It is not working. After a connect the programs sit there, waiting
 forever.

 On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 09:55:33AM -0500, Joshua Shriver wrote:
 It was migrated back to the original boardspace.  Please try there.
 cgos.boardspace.net

 -Josh

 On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 4:14 PM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  It looks like cgos.computergo.org is down?
  All bots fail to connect over here.
 
 
  Folkert van Heusden
 
  --
  You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega-
  Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells
  you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose.
  With nice graphs and pretty animations!
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 --
 You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega-
 Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells
 you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose.
 With nice graphs and pretty animations!
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Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?

[Joshua Shriver]

It was migrated back to the original boardspace.  Please try there.
cgos.boardspace.net

-Josh

On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 4:14 PM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
 Hi,

 It looks like cgos.computergo.org is down?
 All bots fail to connect over here.


 Folkert van Heusden

 --
 You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega-
 Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells
 you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose.
 With nice graphs and pretty animations!
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Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?

[Joshua Shriver]

Let me check.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Christoph Birk
b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:

 On Mar 2, 2015, at 6:55 AM, Joshua Shriver jshri...@gmail.com wrote:
 It was migrated back to the original boardspace.  Please try there.
 cgos.boardspace.net

 The 9x9 and 19x19 servers never got running. The 13x13 server
 ran for a while, but crashed about a month ago and has not been
 restarted.

 Christoph

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Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?

[Joshua Shriver]

I recycled them, hopefully the 13x13 will be back up at least.

-Josh

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Christoph Birk
b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:

 On Mar 2, 2015, at 6:55 AM, Joshua Shriver jshri...@gmail.com wrote:
 It was migrated back to the original boardspace.  Please try there.
 cgos.boardspace.net

 The 9x9 and 19x19 servers never got running. The 13x13 server
 ran for a while, but crashed about a month ago and has not been
 restarted.

 Christoph

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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS back online

[Joshua Shriver]

This is correct.   The ELO ratings are based upon assuming Gnugo 3.7.3
has a rating of 1800 as an anchor.  To generate new ratings it simply
dumps all the games and runs bayeselo on all the games adjusting the
rating on the gnugo games.

-Josh

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:
 I had a look into the sourced of cgos server.

 If I understand them correctly, one must put the anchors directly into the
 database. The sources do not seem to have a configuration
 option for this?!

 As the old database is used, as far as I understood it, person running the
 anchors years ago could just reconnect their anchors, and they should be
 recognized. It might even be possible for somebody, who can make it sure to
 run the anchor in the future to just connect with the old anchor name and
 choose a pw, but I did not try, as I can not make sure to run it all time.
 There is a 6-month remark in the source, but I am not sure if this also
 removes passwords...

 This is from the source:
 if {![file exists $database_state_file]} {

 sqlite3 db $database_state_file

 db eval {
 create table gameid(gid int);
 create table password(name, pass, games int, rating, K, last_game,
 primary key(name) );
 create table games(gid int, w, wr, b, br, dte, wtu, btu, res, final,
 primary key(gid));
 create table anchors(name, rating, primary key(name));
 create table clients( name, count );
 INSERT into gameid VALUES(1);
 }

 db close
 }


 Am 17.01.2015 um 15:24 schrieb Detlef Schmicker:

 You are right, I too often read 3.7 in the past, but actually the papers
 using 3.8 now:)


 Am 17.01.2015 um 12:08 schrieb Urban Hafner:

 On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Detlef Schmicker d...@physik.de wrote:

 Seems a good idea to me. It is a quasi standard in publishing, so why not
 set Gnugo-3.7.10 at level 10 to 1800ELO on every board size?!


 Why 3.7.10 and not 3.8? IIRC all Gnu projects use the odd numbered point
 releases as unstable releases. BTW, I've configured my computer to run GnuGo
 3.8 Level 10 on the 13x13 server. It should run most of the time, but I'd be
 happy to hand over the account to someone why can actually run it 24/7.

 Urban
 --
 Blog: http://bettong.net/
 Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh
 Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/


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Re: [Computer-go] CGOS back online

[Joshua Shriver]

Aye I'm still tinkering with it, and trying to get anchors on.  Still
having issues. :(

-Josh

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Christoph Birk
b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:

 On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:03 AM, Urban Hafner cont...@urbanhafner.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Christoph Birk 
 b...@obs.carnegiescience.edu wrote:
 http://cgos.boardspace.net/9x9/standings.html
 was updated last about 2 years ago.

 I noticed that, too. Also, it seems like there are still games in progress 
 from 2012 which is rather unlikely. So it seems like it's not quite up and 
 running, yet.

 The 13x13 and 19x19 ‘standings’ pages have a recent date, but are empty.
 Christoph

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[Computer-go] CGOS back online

[Joshua Shriver]

CGOS is back on boardspace.net and running.  Please feel free to try
and connect like you use to and let me know. I'll be monitoring it.
It's just as it was when it was taken down after Mr. Daileys passing.

I'm grateful for  Dave Dyer for hosting it in the past, and for
keeping a clean copy of the system as Don originally wrote it.

Originally I wanted to host it myself but the code is rather delicate
and I never could get it running properly.  I'll still be maintaining
it and keep track of it's ups and downs but for all intent and
purposes it just worked  back then so that's why I asked to use
boardspace again to get things rolling again.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] alternative for cgos

[Joshua Shriver]

I'll try and get CGOS back online before this weekend.  Technically it
should be running now, but there were several issues.  In order to use
it now  you take the cgos  client for your architecture and you have
to specify cgos.computergo.org  manually since the binaries are
hardcoded to the old boardspace address.  I've had some troubles
unbundling the binaries and rebuilding the executables with TCL.

Rankings are also an issue as well which is something I'll have to
change in the code to make sure anchors and their predefined ELO
ratings are used.

Will try and make a better write-up on how to connect.  Hopefully this
weekend I should have the anchors running 24/7 and some people can try
connecting.

I'll flush the old data and in terms of games and we'll start with a
fresh slate.  Though all the data even from years past are still
available though for historic reasons and for anyone who wants the
SGF's.

-Josh

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:47 AM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I have the feeling that cgos won't come back in even the distant future
 so I was wondering if there are any alternatives?
 E.g. a server that constantly lets go engines play against each other
 and then determines an elo rating for them.


 Folkert van Heusden

 --
 Afraid of irssi? Scared of bitchx? Does xchat gives you bad shivers?
 In all these cases take a look at http://www.vanheusden.com/fi/ maybe
 even try it or use it for all your day-to-day IRC conversations!
 ---
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[Computer-go] CGOS anchor engines

[Joshua Shriver]

Anyone have a list of stable, freely downloadable Go engines that I
could use as anchors?
Name/download/ELO rating would be appreciated.

Figured worse case I'd use gnugo for an anchor but would like to have
a couple of varying strength.
They can run on Windows or Linux.

-Josh
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Re: [Computer-go] alternative for cgos

[Joshua Shriver]

If you can send me a binary that would be greatly appreciated.  Trying
to build some anchors now.

-Josh

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Hideki Kato hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp wrote:
 Shilver,

 I'll be able to run FatMan1, the anchor for 9x9, on my site, if
 necessary.  Or, it's also possible to send you its binary and password
 so that you can run it on your site.

 Hideki

 Joshua Shriver: 
 CAEdmgvYkFd-tDGL7TxYd55_bWpNBK4gk_VLBNHpWto=xwb5...@mail.gmail.com:
I'll try and get CGOS back online before this weekend.  Technically it
should be running now, but there were several issues.  In order to use
it now  you take the cgos  client for your architecture and you have
to specify cgos.computergo.org  manually since the binaries are
hardcoded to the old boardspace address.  I've had some troubles
unbundling the binaries and rebuilding the executables with TCL.

Rankings are also an issue as well which is something I'll have to
change in the code to make sure anchors and their predefined ELO
ratings are used.

Will try and make a better write-up on how to connect.  Hopefully this
weekend I should have the anchors running 24/7 and some people can try
connecting.

I'll flush the old data and in terms of games and we'll start with a
fresh slate.  Though all the data even from years past are still
available though for historic reasons and for anyone who wants the
SGF's.

-Josh

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:47 AM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I have the feeling that cgos won't come back in even the distant future
 so I was wondering if there are any alternatives?
 E.g. a server that constantly lets go engines play against each other
 and then determines an elo rating for them.


 Folkert van Heusden

 --
 Afraid of irssi? Scared of bitchx? Does xchat gives you bad shivers?
 In all these cases take a look at http://www.vanheusden.com/fi/ maybe
 even try it or use it for all your day-to-day IRC conversations!
 ---
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Re: [computer-go] Fwd: [gnugo-devel] (GNU) Open source real time Go server

[Joshua Shriver]

If you get a team together I'd be willing to help out with
development, technical writing, and design. Would guess or hope that
the server would be written in C or C++.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] CUDA code - can anybody host it?

[Joshua Shriver]

I'd be willing to host it. I use my site to host a lot of chess data
right now so it wouldnt be a problem.

http://www.olympuschess.com (no front page right now) usually people just go to
http://www.olympuschess.com/egtb/

-Josh

2009/12/30 Christian Nentwich christ...@modeltwozero.com:
 All,

 the CUDA light playout code I wrote earlier this year and posted about in
 this list is lying around dead on my hard disk, and I am not looking to take
 it anywhere.It's certainly not production code, as it was written as an
 experiment, but I think there is still value in releasing it.

 I don't have any particular site I could host it on though. Would anybody
 here be prepared to host a ZIP file?

 I don't really care what anybody does with it, so I will put it in the
 public domain with a simple attribution requirement.

 Christian

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[computer-go] OT: AI article I found interesting

[Joshua Shriver]

Came across this today, and since this is also an AI oriented list thought
some of you might enjoy it too.

http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/future-tech/the-past-present-and-future-of-ai-643838

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] OT: AI article I found interesting

[Joshua Shriver]

Aye, though I hope they announce when it'll be on TV so I can record it.

-Josh

2009/10/24 Dave Dyer dd...@real-me.net

  At 10:12 AM 10/24/2009, Joshua Shriver wrote:

 Came across this today, and since this is also an AI oriented list thought
 some of you might enjoy it too.

 http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/future-tech/the-past-present-and-future-of-ai-643838


 I won't believe it even if I see it.  Google Mechanical Turk

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Re: [computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks

[Joshua Shriver]

What do you mean by sanity checks? Such as legal moves?

I wrote a chess engine vs engine app, could gut and reuse it for go and
possible add legal move checking to it.

-Josh

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Folkert van Heusden
folk...@vanheusden.comwrote:

 Hi,

 CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are
 matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get
 triggered (due to scheduling of matches).
 GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does
 sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't
 get triggered.
 So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching
 engines WITH validity-checks?


 Folkert van Heusden

 --
 MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione
 di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view',
 etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/
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Re: [computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks

[Joshua Shriver]

I would think qgo would do that but not sure. If I get time this weekend
I'll modify my code and see if I can get it out there.

I normally use qgo and xboard, but wanted a command line only engine vs
engine matcher.
-josh

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Folkert van Heusden
folk...@vanheusden.comwrote:

 Yes, that's it. Checks if an engine does an illegal ko, puts a piece
 where already is a piece, etc.

 On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 04:15:18PM -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote:
  What do you mean by sanity checks? Such as legal moves?
 
  I wrote a chess engine vs engine app, could gut and reuse it for go and
  possible add legal move checking to it.
 
  -Josh
 
  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Folkert van Heusden
  folk...@vanheusden.comwrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are
   matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get
   triggered (due to scheduling of matches).
   GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does
   sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't
   get triggered.
   So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching
   engines WITH validity-checks?
  
  
   Folkert van Heusden
  
   --
   MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione
   di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view',
   etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/
   --
   Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com
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 Folkert van Heusden

 --
 MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen
 kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff-
 view', vs.  http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/
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[computer-go] Go + code + environment

[Joshua Shriver]

I know with the Chess community, it's looked down upon to use others code w/
respect to competing in tournaments. I'm curious, how is it with Go?

From my understanding, many projects are inter-linked, and even some of the
highest programs are derivatives of other engines. In the chess world that
would be considered a clone and instantly banned and looked down upon.

Perhaps I'm mistaken in my reading, but isn't Mogo a clusterized and highly
tuned version of gnugo? Things like that made me want to make this post. As
I find the Go programming community more open to sharing ideas and code than
my chess world counter part.

Will gladly stand corrected w/ Mogo if i'm wrong. Though curious to hear
everyones input.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] AI at MUST

[Joshua Shriver]

Things like this is why I miss college. It would be really nice if they'd
give the source for free. Know several of my friends would enjoy a good AI
match locally.

-Josh

2009/3/30 Robin Kramer kodr...@gmail.com

 I thought I would pass this along for my Alma mater.

 http://acm.mst.edu/~mstai/ http://acm.mst.edu/%7Emstai/

 I know there are some people interested in automated game playing on this
 list serve.

 It seems they have challenged our flagship university to a programming
 competition.

 -Robin

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Re: [computer-go] Re: Hardware limits

[Joshua Shriver]

When I was big into Chess programming this was a sore topic for me as well.
I felt it was unfair for people competing in the WCCC to win if they had a
cluster of of 100 PCs, a Cray, etc,  when another person was using a
P200mhz.

I believe it was Dr. Hyatt that said this and it made a lot of sense to me
It's not just about creating the best chess program, it's creating the best
playing machine

So when you look at competitions that dont have hardware limits, you can't
look at it like Engine X is the best in the world. You have to look at it
like Engine X + this hardware setup is the best in the world; and take it
with a grain of salt.

Even if you did set hardware limits, it would be a hard task.  Even if it's
just a single PC do you use single core or multicore? Multicore would help
those who have parallelized their code but hurt others. Is it fair?  There's
no real line that can be drawn, because on the flip side I wouldnt find it
fair if I had written a parallel engine and spent all that time and effort
to only be limited to 1 core.

Just my $0.02.
-Josh



 For now I tend to be of the opinion that in competitions, one should be
 able to bring your own hardware or run on standard hardware provided by
 organizers. The restriction that the hardware be physically present allows
 for enough flexibility that people or teams can try different set-ups (like
 a row of PS3s) while avoiding having people with access to a big cluster
 compete with people who only have access to a PC.

 But similarly to the competition of building the most powerful computer in
 the world, I can see room for a competition between big clusters that play
 Go as well. One doesn't have to be to the exclusion of the other. Think of
 car-racing. You have drag-racing where they use rockets to cross half a mile
 as fast as possible and you have F1-racing where the 'hardware' is
 constrained within certain limits.

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Re: [computer-go] Re: Hardware limits

[Joshua Shriver]

I must be out of touch, didnt know Rybka could run on a cluster :) last I
checked he was about to release a smp version.
Lots to catch up on.

-Josh


 In chess, one team is firmly dominating (Rybka), and they have since
 last year also managed to acquire the best hardware (40 core cluster).
 This makes them essentially unbeatable.

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[computer-go] Newbie

[Joshua Shriver]

I'm writing my engine from scratch and have a curious question.  When my
best friend an American 1dan lvl player  (who has played in Japan) taught me
the game. I love it. :)

Though as I get more in depth, and programming wise, have no idea what rule
set to follow.  Not sure what I was taught guessing Japanese rules.  But
curious what the various rule sets and how do the differ/compare
especially from a programmer and player point of view.

Also, while I love computer-go.. is there a  go-player mailing list?

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] Newbie

[Joshua Shriver]

 You've been on this list a long time, haven't you?


Yes :) I started by tinkering with Monte Carlo in VRML for a hardware
solution, but aiming for a pure C, aimed at x86 engine.





 Anyway,  I don't think there is much of a question that Chinese rules
 are much better for getting started with computer GO.   If you are
 newbie,  Japanese rules will frustrate you.   You can later migrate to
 Japanese rules if you want - but CGOS and KGS tournaments for go
 programs use Chinese rules.

 - Don


I'll have to do some googling. To be honest I dont know what the diff is in
Japanese, Chinese, Korean Go rules.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] reference bots java and C

[Joshua Shriver]

Where is the C version for download?

-Josh

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The C reference bot indeed had a simple bug.  Everything was fine except
 for when the final move choice was made,  I forgot to check for eye.

 I am surprised it played as strongly as it did because it seems like it
 would have always filled eyes, but the logic of not selecting a move
 that has no playouts associated with it kicked in.   So it ended up
 being roughly only 15 ELO weaker.That explains why the other
 statistics seemed to match perfectly, there was nothing wrong with the
 playouts.

 It was outside 4 standard deviations after many thousand games.Now
 it is within 2 SD after about 8000 games.   I'm going to let it run for
 a few more thousand games and see if this continues to hold up because
 the javabot is scoring 51.01 percent, just barely within 2 standard
 deviations.

 - Don


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Re: [computer-go] java reference bot

[Joshua Shriver]

Is the source available would be neat to see.

-Josh

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I made a reference bot and I want someone(s) to help me check it out
 with equivalent data from their own program.  There are no guarantees
 that I have this correct of course.


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[computer-go] Comprehensive List of Docs

[Joshua Shriver]

Let this list, and all replies be a comprehensive list of websites and docs
publically availble concerning Go dev.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] Computer Olympiad registration reminder: 11 days left

[Joshua Shriver]

Wish I could go, maybe next year. Amazed that the WCCC is being held at the
same place just 3 days after.  :)

-Josh

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Rémi Coulom [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Dear Go programmers,

 I remind you that the deadline for early registration to the ICGA Computer
 Olympiad is June 15. After that date, registration fees will be doubled.
 You'll find all information on the web site of the tournament:
 http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/event.php?id=37

 I hope to meet you there.

 Rémi
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[computer-go] Go programming and CUDA

[Joshua Shriver]

Anyone doing any research into using NVidia's CUDA sdk for Go programming?

-Josh
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[computer-go] Computer Go Forum

[Joshua Shriver]

Is there a computer go forum? This mailing list has been great, and may and
the most powerful people are here. While email is nice, it would be nice to
have a website to post questions, and an easy way to search responses. I
really like talkchess.com for chess material, just wish there as a
comparible version for Go.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] State of the art of pattern matching

[Joshua Shriver]

Do you have a link to those papers?
-Josh



 My go-programming efforts are very much concentrated on patterns.
 (maybe I have been influenced by the Kojima-papers)
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Re: [computer-go] chess/go for handhelds

[Joshua Shriver]

I've greatly enjoyed Aigo over the years. I have it on my palm and have
upgrade hardware 3x and each time the author has kindly given me a new
registration code for free.  Think it only cost $8 and well worth it.

Just my $0.02
-Josh
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[computer-go] Go board recap

[Joshua Shriver]

For whatever reason my email grep'ing skills haven't spawns answers to
a previously emailed question.

In chess we have xboard/winboard. What clients do you recommend for
linux for GTP playing?

-Josh
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[computer-go] gtp two way

[Joshua Shriver]

In addition to my previous email is there a cli based app for doing
two way gtp based head on head competitions between two engines?


-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 Study

[Joshua Shriver]

I'd be willing to donate some CPU time. I run Ubuntu linux on a P4 3ghz with
1gig RAM. Can be configured with or w/o HT. (usually leave it off)

-Josh

On Jan 29, 2008 10:01 AM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The 9x9 scalability study has been a huge success with 35 cpu's
 participating and several volunteers.This means we got about a month
 of testing done per day and have the equivalent of about a years worth
 of data or more.We are considering whether to extend the study a bit
 more to test some more versions of Mogo.   Here are the results so far:

http://cgos.boardspace.net/study/

 There are over 7000 games played at very high levels. If there is
 enough interest,  I will collect all the games together in one place and
 make them available when the study is complete.   (This depends on all
 the participants sending me a copy of their database(s).)

 It appears that mogo, despite internal limits, continues to scale beyond
 the point where we are currently testing.It's my understanding that
 because of memory limits mogo must garbage collect tree nodes that could
 be useful later,  and this would impact the strength at higher levels.
 Nevertheless the rating plot tells the story,  mogo scales wonderfully,
 but not linearly and you can see a nice gradual curve in the plot.

 Now we have something we can argue about for weeks.   Why is it not
 mostly linear?   Could it be the memory issue I just mentioned?Or as
 David Fotland suggests,  perhaps we are close enough to the limit that
 additional strength increases are hard to come by? My guess is that
 it is a combination of both factors.At the current level of the
 strongest mogo version,   mogo takes roughly an hour per game, or about
 45 minutes on a core 2 duo. That probably translates to perhaps a
 couple of minutes per move.

 FatMan seems to hit some kind of hard limit rather suddenly. It
 could be an implementation bug or something else - I don't really
 understand this. It's very difficult to test a program for
 scalability since you are limited by computer resources and it turned
 out that this was a great opportunity to discover this.Of course
 this is something else we can argue about :-)

 When this study is complete,   we would like to do a 19x19 study.   It
 seems pragmatic to have 2 programs in the study,  just as we do in the
 9x9 study. We already have mogo,  but we are looking for someone to
 volunteer their program for the study.Here is what we need:

 1.  One of the stronger scalable programs.

 2.  A 32 bit binary that runs on linux. Also, a 64 bit binary if you
 can make one but not required since it appears most 64 bit linux
 machines run 32 bit binaries in most cases.

 3.  No opening book or at least extremely limited (mogo always plays e5
 but that seems to be the extent of it's hard coded opening system.)

 4.  Ability to have fine control over the number of nodes searched per
 move.

 5.  Should be able to scale up without hitting a hard memory limit when
 thinking as long as 5 or 10 minutes per move.

 6.  Should make reasonable use of memory.   The test machines seem to
 have about 1/2 gig of memory and 2 programs run on them - so your
 program should be able to run reasonably well on modest hardware.


 We understand that your program probably plays poorly at 19x19.   This
 should not prevent you from volunteering your program if it's one of the
 stronger 9x9 programs.

 We have ironed out most of the wrinkles in making this work so we would
 also like to have more volunteers to RUN the study.If anyone want to
 help,  it works this way:

 1.   Need a machine running a modern linux with at least 512 meg memory.
 2.   It can be 32 bit or 64 bit linux.
 3.   I send you a tarball with everything you need including the program
 themselves.
 4.   unpack the tarball somewhere.
 5.   run a script to start the test.
 6.   there is a script to stop and restart the test at your convenience.

 There is nothing else you have to do.   The results are periodically
 ftp'd to my anonymous server for processing.

 - Don






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Re: [computer-go] http://www.computer-go.info/ expired

[Joshua Shriver]

Getting Primefarm looks like a hosting site page. Agree account must
have lapsed.
-Josh

On Jan 14, 2008 11:34 AM, Ian Osgood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is it just me, or did the http://www.computer-go.info/ site just expire?

 Ian

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Re: [computer-go] GPUs and go algorithms?

[Joshua Shriver]

I've been looking into GPGPU for several years now, there was even some buzz
in the comp-chess stream but the downsides seemed to be to much. Think the
big problem is the latency on the PCI/AGP bus. Though that might not be as
much an issue now with PCI-x, etc.

For more info I'd refer you to this site which has been using GPU's for
years.
http://www.gpgpu.org/

-Josh

On Dec 6, 2007 7:32 PM, Darren Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 An interesting article on using GPUs for general purpose computation:

 http://www.linux-mag.com/microsites.php?site=business-class-hpcsid=buildp=4543

 In (current mainstream) computer go there are two main CPU-bound
 algorithms: playouts (random, or incorporating logic or patterns) and
 tactical search. But the GPUs seem even more restricted in what they can
 do than the PS3 Cell processors (where the main restriction there was
 only a small amount of local memory). E.g. from the above article:
* No stack or heap
* No integer or bit-wise operations
* No scatter operations (a[i]=b)
* No reduction operations (max(), min(), sum())

 On the other hand this quote [1] from the Sh language page says it has
 for/if statements, which the latest GPUs support.

 Does anyone here both understood the above go algorithms *and* had
 experience with programming GPUs, and can confirm that they are not
 really useful?

 Darren


 [1]: From http://www.libsh.org/about.html
 Sh incorporates full language constructs for branching (e.g. for loops
 and if statements). Once GPUs are powerful enough to execute such
 constructs (which, to some extent, is true today) backends can be
 adjusted to compile such code to real hardware assembly. In the mean
 time our GPU simulator Sm implements various features expected to be in
 GPUs in the near future, such as a unified vertex and fragment
 instruction set.


 --
 Darren Cook
 http://dcook.org/mlsn/ (English-Japanese-German-Chinese free dictionary)
 http://dcook.org/work/ (About me and my work)
 http://dcook.org/work/charts/  (My flash charting demos)
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[computer-go] xboard like for Go

[Joshua Shriver]

Anyone recommend a good Go GUI for Linux? Not for bot matches and suchs but
just to play gtp based engines.
For chess I use xboard and it's wondeful, would love to find a similiar tool
for Go.

-Josh
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[computer-go] GTP back to basics.

[Joshua Shriver]

Sorry to duplicate my question, I've been digging and digging in previous
threads trying to find the answers that were posted.
Wish computer-go had a google search :)

Anyway, what is the minimal commands required to get an engine online via
gtp?

I've been working hard and hope to have an alpha program on CGOS by
Christmas. Know last time I asked this, one useful reply gave just 4-5
commands that were essential.

I have the full spec, and nothing look terribly hard, but I want to get the
minimal commands done first so I can get my program online asap.

Thanks in advance!
-Josh
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[computer-go] New engine? From a Chess programmer perspective.

[Joshua Shriver]

There was a thread on CCC (computer chess) about Go. An interesting post was
made that linked to Leela, a Go engine and GUI written by the author of Deep
Sjeng which is a moderate to high level chess engine.

http://www.sjeng.org/leela.html

Have any of you bought or tested the full version or have any more info?
Seems interesting.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] New engine? From a Chess programmer perspective.

[Joshua Shriver]

Sure, it's a long URL though.

http://64.68.157.89/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17341postdays=0postorder=asctopic_view=start=30

-Josh

On Dec 2, 2007 10:42 AM, Russell Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Dec 2, 2007 2:02 PM, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  There was a thread on CCC (computer chess) about Go. An interesting post
 was
  made that linked to Leela, a Go engine and GUI written by the author of
 Deep
  Sjeng which is a moderate to high level chess engine.
 
   http://www.sjeng.org/leela.html
 
  Have any of you bought or tested the full version or have any more info?
  Seems interesting.

 I haven't seen Leela before, but the claim of high dan-level
 performance on 9x9 is certainly interesting. Do you have a link to the
 CCC thread?
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Re: [computer-go] Micro-Matrix GO Machine

[Joshua Shriver]

There are computer go , or even just go Magazines? Any recommendations?

-Josh

On Nov 30, 2007 6:43 AM, Ben Lambrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi,

 I was reading in the old computer go magazines.
 In number 2 page 27 I found the attached article.

 Why is nobody repeating this experiment?
 If a bot can play as 3d 1987, how strong would it be right now?
 Is there someone whit access to the source-code of this machine?

 Ben

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[computer-go] CGOS 19 down *think*

[Joshua Shriver]

I loaded up dog and a gnugo bot on cgos 19, it connects gives the username
password and just sits there.
Normally I'd get a string giving time till next round but seems stuck at the
login.

BTW are cgos posts still being made on computer-go or did it get migrated
off to sourceforge.
-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] CGOS 19 down *think*

[Joshua Shriver]

Thanks I put two bots in. dog and gnugo.
-Josh

On Nov 28, 2007 2:25 PM, Olivier Teytaud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Unfortunately I do not manage the 19x19 server or I would kill and
 restart.

 I kill and restart in a few minutes.

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[computer-go] FPGA to Hardware

[Joshua Shriver]

Ok so I've written a Go based processor in VHDL and seeking someplace
*preferably cheap* to burn it into hardware. Any recommendations?
Oh and btw did I mention CHEAP.. this is purely a 100% hobby and I'm poor.
So *cheap* is probably more important than time and output as long as it
acts like the VHDL that I wrote. I dont mind if it takes 6 months to
fabricate as long as they can do it for a lot cheaper than anything I've
seen online and in low quantities. I'm looking for 1-10 max quantity. It is
designed to be paralleized, but quantities are still low due to cost.

Oh and cheaper the better ;)

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] FPGA to Hardware

[Joshua Shriver]

FPGA boards are expensive

On Nov 24, 2007 5:48 PM, Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You want an ASIC fabricated?  I don't think they do cheap.  What's
 wrong with FPGAs?


 On Nov 24, 2007 4:07 PM, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Ok so I've written a Go based processor in VHDL and seeking someplace
  *preferably cheap* to burn it into hardware. Any recommendations?
  Oh and btw did I mention CHEAP.. this is purely a 100% hobby and I'm
 poor.
  So *cheap* is probably more important than time and output as long as it
  acts like the VHDL that I wrote. I dont mind if it takes 6 months to
  fabricate as long as they can do it for a lot cheaper than anything I've
  seen online and in low quantities. I'm looking for 1-10 max quantity. It
 is
  designed to be paralleized, but quantities are still low due to cost.
 
  Oh and cheaper the better ;)
 
  -Josh
 
 
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[computer-go] Obtaining Archvies

[Joshua Shriver]

Is there a place online or via this mailing list where you can request an
archive of older posts? Preferably the entire set for offline reading and
parsing?

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] KGS connection

[Joshua Shriver]

What are the rules for putting bots on kgs? Do you have the author or
can anyone put up a gnugo bot?

-Josh

On Nov 9, 2007 4:12 AM, William Shubert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  TCP Port 2379 on goserver.gokgs.com

  This is an outbound connection from your system. No other connection is
 needed.


  On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 09:59 +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote:
  Does someone know which port of which server
 can be accepted by KGS for launching a bot
 (we have tedious troubles with a firewall...) ?

 Thanks for any information,
 Olivier



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Re: [computer-go] KGS connection

[Joshua Shriver]

Aye, it would be bad to enter a tournament with a bot I didn't write.
I was thinking more general. Just for play.
Thanks and good luck in the tourney :)
-Josh

On Nov 9, 2007 9:54 AM, Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was referring to the KGS bot tournaments.  I see now that you did
 not specifically ask about that.



 On Nov 9, 2007 9:40 AM, Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The way I understand it, you must have permission from the program
  authors for either division.  And only one version of a given program
  can compete in the formal division.
 
 
 
  On Nov 9, 2007 9:35 AM, Joshua Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   What are the rules for putting bots on kgs? Do you have the author or
   can anyone put up a gnugo bot?
  
   -Josh
  
  
   On Nov 9, 2007 4:12 AM, William Shubert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 TCP Port 2379 on goserver.gokgs.com
   
 This is an outbound connection from your system. No other connection is
needed.
   
   
 On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 09:59 +0100, Olivier Teytaud wrote:
 Does someone know which port of which server
can be accepted by KGS for launching a bot
(we have tedious troubles with a firewall...) ?
   
Thanks for any information,
Olivier
   
   
   
  
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Re: [computer-go] Solving Go

[Joshua Shriver]

You could go the route chess does with egtbs.

First permutate every possible board with both stones, and start
removing pieces one at a time.

I wrote a permutation tool, but even with 3 and 4 size board the end
data file was huge.

-Josh

On 11/7/07, Ben Lambrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




 I want to create a perfect player on board sizes 3x3, 5x5 and maybe 7x7 and
 beyond.

 But I have no idea how to start. How do I create the move database and how
 do I select the perfect move for every position?



 I know Go is solved on boards 5x5 and smaller, but there is no program that
 plays by this perfect moves.



 Has anyone did this before or has anybody thoughts about this?



 Ben
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Re: [computer-go] Solving Go

[Joshua Shriver]

I just ran my perm application for 4x4 and it's reporting
43,046,721 unique board states and took  2m6.980s. Will try for 5 and 6.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] FW: Microsoft Research Lectures: Akihiro Kishimoto, Future University-Hakodate

[Joshua Shriver]

Great work Dave! Look forward to seeing it.

-Josh

On 11/6/07, David Stern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




 Akihiro has kindly agreed for us to film his talk and make it available.  I
 should be able to put it online somewhere – I will let you know when this is
 done.



 Best,

 David




 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Adrian Petrescu
  Sent: 05 November 2007 18:14
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; computer-go
  Subject: Re: [computer-go] FW: Microsoft Research Lectures: Akihiro
 Kishimoto, Future University-Hakodate




 As a public lectures, do these things get recorded and posted online
 anywhere, Google Techtalk-style? This looks like a really interesting talk,
 but I live nowhere near where this is being held. Is there any way at all?

  Thanks for bringing this to our attention at any rate :)


 On 11/5/07, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This may be of interest
  JL


  -Original Message-
  From: Sarah Nightingale (Interaction Recruitment PLC)
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 05 November 2007 17:25
  To: Jack Lang
  Subject: Microsoft Research Lectures: Akihiro Kishimoto, Future
  University-Hakodate

  MICROSOFT RESEARCH LECTURE
  This is a PUBLIC lecture
  
  TITLE: Developing the Best Life and Death Solver in Go
  SPEAKER: Akihiro Kishimoto
  INSTITUTION: Future University-Hakodate
  HOST: David Stern
  DATE: 13 November 2007
  TIME: 15:00 - 16:00
  MEETING ROOM: Lecture-room small(50 seats)
  ADDRESS: Microsoft Research Ltd, 7 J J Thomson Avenue (Off Madingley Road),
  Cambridge
  Computer Go is one of the ultimate challenges for games research. Despite
 of
  a lot of efforts for building state of the art programs, Go is still
  resistant to current AI techniques, even for solving subproblems such as
  Life and Death, or tsume-Go. This talk presents the techniques behind
  TsumeGo Explorer, a high-performance tsume-Go solver. TsumeGo Explorer uses
  df-pn(r), a new search algorithm that improves the depth-first proof-number
  search algorithm. The program also contains domain-dependent enhancements.
  In empirical tests, TsumeGo Explorer out performs GoTools, which has been
  the undisputedly best tsume-Go solver for the last 15 years.





  ---
  You are currently subscribed to msrclectures as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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  m
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[computer-go] SGF naming convention.

[Joshua Shriver]

I'm writing a SGF parse and was wondering, the moves are listed as
[pd] [dd], instead of a1 m10.

Does the letters correspond to the number equivalent, taking into
account you skip I?
So  I = 9 or J=9?

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] super-ko

[Joshua Shriver]

What is a super-ko?

-Josh

On 11/1/07, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 About once every month or two someone sends me a private email that they
 have found a ko bug in CGOS and they point me to a game they lost due to
 superko.

 So far it's never happened that there was bug - they just didn't
 understand positional superko.

 But as you say,  it does happen just enough to be annoying if you don't
 implement it correctly in your program.

 - Don




 Christoph Birk wrote:
  Game 180106 (AyaMC2_1CPU vs ControlBoy) on 9x9-GGOS shows how
  important it is to implement super-ko.
  White is so sure of it's win that it misses several
  oppotunities to finish the deal. I haven't done it myself yet,
  because it does not happen
  very ofen, but when it happens like in this game, it's very
  annoying.
 
  Christoph
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Re: [computer-go] CGOS on sourceforge

[Joshua Shriver]

I have my own webserver and would be willing to host an OSS project like cgos.
Sourceforge is nice, but I thought one of the funky rules was that you
had to assign the copyrights to the FSF or something.

Either way, if CGOS was put under some kind of FOSS license it would
be nice, and would allow other people to work on it. Would need a
maintainer though.

-Josh

On 11/1/07, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I understand a lot of the burden that's on Don to maintain CGOS.  I
 think that using http://www.sourceforge.net could lower a lot of the
 maintenance work for him.  Here's the individual features that I know
 would help:
 * Wiki page - Allows the community to maintain the web page, adding
 minor updates or clarifications as needed
 * Download files section - Shows grouped, versioned, and timestamped
 files along with details about how each one should be used.
 * Source Control - CVS or subversion interface for source code.  This
 can allow other developers to commit official changes without going
 through Don.

 If everyone (especially Don) agrees, I'd be willing to set this up.

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Re: [computer-go] CGOS on sourceforge

[Joshua Shriver]

In that case I stand happily corrected. I once was going to release
and one of the stipulations what that it had to be reassigned to the
FSF. Couldn't remember if it was sourceforge, gnu, or what...

-Josh

On 11/1/07, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 20:38 -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote:
  I have my own webserver and would be willing to host an OSS project like 
  cgos.
  Sourceforge is nice, but I thought one of the funky rules was that you
  had to assign the copyrights to the FSF or something.

 I don't think this is true.  I know as part of registration, you specify
 what kind of license you're going to use.

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[computer-go] Definition for monte carlo

[Joshua Shriver]

There has been a lot of talk about monte carlo and while I have the
jist not sure exactly what it is? Would someone explain it?

What I've read online is just to play a bunch of random games and pick
the best one. Is there now real evaluation between the games or sorted
method for generating movements?

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] BOINC

[Joshua Shriver]

Not that I'm aware, but the engine I'm working on will be parallelized.
Depending on time and finances I'm even considering going down the
route of custom fpga based boards but that's on the dream list so far,
and isn't planned for RC1.

-Josh

On 10/29/07, Ben Lambrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 Has anyone tried to program Go via BOINC?

 regards, Ben

 http://boinc.berkeley.edu/
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[computer-go] CGOS 19 TC

[Joshua Shriver]

There is a lot of talk about time controls, and would like to add my input.
I agree we should have longer time controls.  I'm in the very early
stages of my Go engine. With my current time line I dont anticipate
having a running engine for at least a year. My design is a good bit
different than the engines I've seen.

Guess my question is, how resource intensive is the server code? Could
we split it?
Have the server running on one port for 10min blitz, and another port
with 30+minute games? My only concern is fragmenting the amount of
players. Not sure how many active people play, but if it's little it
might make the pool to small.

What are all of your thoughts?
-Josh
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[computer-go] SGF Viewer for Linux

[Joshua Shriver]

Anyone recommend a free SGF viewer for Linux?  I'd really like to find
something like SCID but for Go.

-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

I'm not able to connect to the 19x19 server either.

I even tried telnet'ing to it.  Cgosviewer keeps telling me could not
execute, but I dont believe it's a binary problem since if I just run
the viewer it comes up (just doesnt connect to anything)

Here is the tail of a traceroute.
8  nri-a-g1-0-0-101.cssi.renater.fr (193.51.187.17) [MPLS: Label 142
Exp 0]  119 ms  137 ms  121 ms
19  orsay-g0-0-0-170.cssi.renater.fr (193.51.179.90)  117 ms  125 ms  121 ms
20  ups-orsay.cssi.renater.fr (193.51.183.29)  137 ms  135 ms  121 ms
21  * 129.175.127.130 (129.175.127.130)  158 ms !A *

-Josh

On 10/26/07, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I found the version - it's version 0.33 and I never published it.
 You can specify any game ever played on cgos and it will bring
 it up. You can also bring several up like this:

   cgosview.exe -server cgos.lri.fr  -port 6919  -games 1 2 3 4 5 99 17

 If Olivier puts up a front page of some kind I  will update the viewing
 client to work with the new 19x19 site  by default and he can post
 them.

 - Don




 Don Dailey wrote:
  Actually,   I just tried the windows viewer on my linux system and it
  worked! I guess wine, the windows emulator has come a long way!
 
  Here is what I did:
 
   cgosview.exe  cgos.lri.fr  6919
 
  I did this from a bash shell and it came up just fine on my edgy eft
  ubuntu system.
 
  If a windows program runs on linux, it has to work on windows!
 
  - Don
 
 
 
 
  Don Dailey wrote:
 
  As far as I know the viewer works just fine.
 
  Has anyone else tried the windows viewer on the new 19x19 site?
  I haven't tried it with windows, but you must pass the site and port
  number to the viewer from the command line like this:
 
 cgosview.exe  cgos.lri.fr  6919
 
 
  The viewer is a really nice way to look at games.  A 3rd argument
  will let you view a specific game number:
 
 cgosview.exe  cgos.lri.fr  6919  777
 (view game 777)
 
 
  - Don
 
 
 
  David Fotland wrote:
 
 
  no, I never got the viewer to work for me.
 
  I was too conservative with time control so Many Faces is only playing at
  level 8 (of 10), and finishing its games in 2 or 3 minutes.  But it's
  winning them all, so I guess I should prefer short time limits :)
 
  Since Many Faces was originally written for a 12 MHz x286, it works pretty
  well at very short time limits.
 
  David
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey
  Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:30 PM
  To: computer-go
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS
 
 
  Are you able to watch the games in the viewer ok?I am watching one
  of your games right now.
 
 
  - Don
 
 
 
  David Fotland wrote:
 
 
 
  I puton Many Faces version 11, but it might not be playing at fill
  strength. It ouwld be nice if I can click on a game to see the sgf
  record.  right now it gives an error.
 
  David
 
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
  Olivier Teytaud
  Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:15 AM
  To: computer-go
  Subject: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS
 
 
  The cgos 19x19 server is seemingly ok,
  the port 6919 is now opened for all the universe.
 
  The name of the machine is cgos.lri.fr (and not
  pc5-120.lri.fr as previously).
 
  The port is 6919. It is 19x19, 10 minutes per side for
  testing; I will move to something longer later (depending on
  what people prefer, I'll do a weighted average of durations
  suggested on the mailing list :-) ).
 
  http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/cgosStandings.html
 
  Unfortunately, I'll be away from my email
  from tomorrow to wednesday and will not be able to
  correct the troubles that people will almost surely find
  in this installation; sorry for that.
  The installation is a bit complicated in order to avoid
  troubles due to the firewall and I am almost sure that some
  troubles will appear very soon :-)
 
  All comments welcome (in particular in the next hours as I am
  still close to my computer a few hours :-) ).
 
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Alrighty figured it out

./cgosviewer cgos.lri.fr  6919

Sorry was going from various emails, but it works now :) yuppy

-Josh
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[computer-go] MoGo

[Joshua Shriver]

Is MoGo a commercial or free program? Open or closed source? Linux
version available?

Thanks in advance :)
-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

There was some chatter a while back concerning it.  I offered to admin
it, and possibly  to host it.  Though there was another taker so not
sure what it's current status is.

-Josh

On 10/22/07, Christoph Birk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What happened to the 19x19 CGOS revival?

 Christoph

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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

Sure, I have a webserver in a major datacenter so webhosting isn't  a
problem. As for running the server itself I also have a cable modem
with a static IP but wasn't sure if that was enough for run it.

Let me know if I can help. I run linux at home but could setup a VM
Windows box if it's windows only code.

-Josh

On 10/13/07, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I don't think this requires a great deal of bandwidth.   Right now cgos
 9x9 is getting by with 1 GIG of disk space and it's not enough - so even
 2-5 Gig would be adequate.I have run the server from my home cable
 modem connection and no problem whatsoever.

 It doesn't matter where the web server is as long as the CGOS server can
 write the data directly to a disk somewhere.   I suppose it could even
 write via a networked file system - perhaps something like FUSE mounted
 via ssh (ssh filesystem)

 However, I might have a solution now.   I'm talking right now to David
 Doshay about using one his university machines for this.

 Can I get back to you on this in case it doesn't work out?

 - - Don


 Joshua Shriver wrote:
  What kind of bandwidth would be required and can the webserver be
  different from the cgos host?  If anything I can dedicated free
  webspace, subdomain, whatever.
 
  -Josh
 
  On 10/13/07, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We are having some trouble getting 19x19 CGOS running on a volunteered
  machine as there is no administration privileges on that machine.
 
  So we still need a volunteer who will host a machine (and hopefully
  administer it as well.)
 
 
  What we need:
 
  1. A linux machine on a reliable network.
  2. Exposed directly to the internet.
  3. A working web server.
  4. Ability to make a port available for the socket.
 
 
  If you can give me an account on this machine I can adminster and set it
  up, but if YOU want to administer it, that is even better.
 
 
  - Don
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 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFHEQ8aDsOllbwnSikRAvp2AJ4zl+t9OqBExb0XVRwqkAsPVh0XBQCfZT1i
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS

[Joshua Shriver]

What kind of bandwidth would be required and can the webserver be
different from the cgos host?  If anything I can dedicated free
webspace, subdomain, whatever.

-Josh

On 10/13/07, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 We are having some trouble getting 19x19 CGOS running on a volunteered
 machine as there is no administration privileges on that machine.

 So we still need a volunteer who will host a machine (and hopefully
 administer it as well.)


 What we need:

 1. A linux machine on a reliable network.
 2. Exposed directly to the internet.
 3. A working web server.
 4. Ability to make a port available for the socket.


 If you can give me an account on this machine I can adminster and set it
 up, but if YOU want to administer it, that is even better.


 - - Don
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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 ZO86h1t17yj/fXgY0faOXPE=
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[computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

[Joshua Shriver]

Found this link and thought you all might find it interesting.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct07/5552

Interesting part for me so far:

 At my lab at Microsoft Research Asia, in Beijing, I am organizing a
graduate student project to design the hardware and software elements
that will test the ideas outlined here. If they prove out, then the
way will be clear for a full-scale project to dethrone the best human
players.

Thoughts, comments?

Deep Go anyone?
-Josh
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Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

[Joshua Shriver]

I thought it was an interesting article, full of gems and annoyances.
I couldn't help to get the feeling the author was poking fun at
Kasparov at times.

Despite that, I am curious to see what kind of hardware he and his
students produce.  Guess if there is going to be a Deep Go he'd be the
one to design it. Should make for some interesting progress in our
field.

-Josh

On 10/7/07, Benjamin Teuber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Quite interesting, but after all, it completely neglects the difficulties to
 a) determine the life status of groups
 b) build an evaluation function out of this

 Benjamin

 Joshua Shriver schrieb:
  Found this link and thought you all might find it interesting.
 
  http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct07/5552
 
  Interesting part for me so far:
 
   At my lab at Microsoft Research Asia, in Beijing, I am organizing a
  graduate student project to design the hardware and software elements
  that will test the ideas outlined here. If they prove out, then the
  way will be clear for a full-scale project to dethrone the best human
  players.
 
  Thoughts, comments?
 
  Deep Go anyone?
  -Josh
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Re: [computer-go] Former Deep Blue Research working on Go

[Joshua Shriver]

Oops sorry didnt realise.


On 10/7/07, Jeff Nowakowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, 2007-10-07 at 17:33 -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote:
  Found this link and thought you all might find it interesting.
 
  http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct07/5552

 Umm, this article was linked to and discussed heavily here within the
 past week:

 http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2007-October/thread.html#11302


 -Jeff

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[computer-go] Games Database

[Joshua Shriver]

Good Evening,

Sorry, I think this may have been asked but can't find it
anywhere in the list archives. Anyone know of a good place to get a
large sgf game database?

Preferably master games or at least 1dan level or higher?

-Josh
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[computer-go] CGOS down 09/23/07

[Joshua Shriver]

Can anyone connect to the CGOS server? Trying to run Dog on the 19x19
and it wont connect.

-Josh
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[computer-go] GoGUI v 1.0.1

[Joshua Shriver]

Was looking in my links and noticed a new version of GoGUI was
released recently. Sept 11, 2007.

http://gogui.sourceforge.net/

-Josh
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[computer-go] Tesuji

[Joshua Shriver]

Was reading a page about Go and came across this term.  Anyone know
what it means?
Some googling yielded that it's some kind of tactic position. Though I
might have misinterpreted it.

-Josh
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[computer-go] Engine development for beginners

[Joshua Shriver]

Are there any really simple engines out there that know just enough to
play a legal game of Go? Preferably C, Perl or Java?

Some of the open source engines I've looked at are rather complex and
not to friendly to a beginner.

Kinda looking for the tscp of chess for go :)

-Josh
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[computer-go] Differences..

[Joshua Shriver]

What is the difference in Go and Mathematical Go?

http://brooklyngoclub.org/jc/rulesgo.html

Is Mathamatical Go a subset of Go as the rules look the same to me as
regular go.

-Josh
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