Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ?
On 12/14/06, Chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had such annotated games, wouldn't you also need an impressive English language parser? Even more impressive if you consider the task of parsing English-as-a-second-language dialects. I do not understand the meaning of this sentence. Could you please explain it more explicetly? If I understand correctly, the point was that: (a) parsing English is hard (b) most English language comments on Go games are made by those for whom English is a second language, who don't use correct English :. (c) (b) is likely to make (a) even harder. Personally I disagree, but that's entirely off topic. cheers stuart ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ?
I know of no research, but chess-programms like e.g. Fritz do this to a certain degree. There was (maybe is) an award by the ICCA-Journal for the best annotation by a programm. But I do not remember any papers how this is done. Trade secret. I have implemented another form of annotation in my chess-programm Schweinehund. An animated dog made comments on the game. This was insofar relastic, as my nephew felt insulted by his uncle. The dog made some bad comments about his playing style. But the underlying mechanism was rather primitive. The animation sequences were mainly selected due to evaluation changes and some online behaviour. E.g. when the human opponent took a long time for his move, he was many or only a few moves in the opening book... The impression of realism and meaningfull comments was due to the dog. I have my doubts that one can make with current Go programms a meaningfull annotation. For this purpose the programm must be much stronger than the user. E.g. when the dog said this was your second best move the programm must be relative sure, that the human played a blunder. It increases the fun if the dog is in a small percentage of cases wrong. But if the dog is most of the time wrong and the human move was in fact quite strong, its annoying. The generell advantage of an animated character is, that the comment/annotation must no be so detailed and one can cheat a little bit. E.g. if the programm realized that the comment before was wrong, the dog can say forget it, was just a joke. The difficult part is that it is an online-algorithm. In case of an annotation one can analyse the whole game before generating some comments. Chrilly - Original Message - From: 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:51 AM Subject: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ? Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you. I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for machine learning. (for example, these stones are weak, this move is for attack those stones, this move was bad ...etc) Does anyone know such researches? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ?
If you had such annotated games, wouldn't you also need an impressive English language parser? Even more impressive if you consider the task of parsing English-as-a-second-language dialects. I do not understand the meaning of this sentence. Could you please explain it more explicetly? Chrilly On 12/13/06, 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you. I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for machine learning. (for example, these stones are weak, this move is for attack those stones, this move was bad ...etc) Does anyone know such researches? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ?
Dogs can play Go? No. They can't. Dogs also cannot search for files on your computer. Why are my CPU cycles being wasted to animate a dog who may or may not pretend to know something that I don't? Is it purely to annoy? If so, hats off. On 12/14/06, Chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know of no research, but chess-programms like e.g. Fritz do this to a certain degree. There was (maybe is) an award by the ICCA-Journal for the best annotation by a programm. But I do not remember any papers how this is done. Trade secret. I have implemented another form of annotation in my chess-programm Schweinehund. An animated dog made comments on the game. This was insofar relastic, as my nephew felt insulted by his uncle. The dog made some bad comments about his playing style. But the underlying mechanism was rather primitive. The animation sequences were mainly selected due to evaluation changes and some online behaviour. E.g. when the human opponent took a long time for his move, he was many or only a few moves in the opening book... The impression of realism and meaningfull comments was due to the dog. I have my doubts that one can make with current Go programms a meaningfull annotation. For this purpose the programm must be much stronger than the user. E.g. when the dog said this was your second best move the programm must be relative sure, that the human played a blunder. It increases the fun if the dog is in a small percentage of cases wrong. But if the dog is most of the time wrong and the human move was in fact quite strong, its annoying. The generell advantage of an animated character is, that the comment/annotation must no be so detailed and one can cheat a little bit. E.g. if the programm realized that the comment before was wrong, the dog can say forget it, was just a joke. The difficult part is that it is an online-algorithm. In case of an annotation one can analyse the whole game before generating some comments. Chrilly - Original Message - From: 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: computer-go@computer-go.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:51 AM Subject: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ? Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you. I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for machine learning. (for example, these stones are weak, this move is for attack those stones, this move was bad ...etc) Does anyone know such researches? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to gamerecords ?
My understanding of Araki's message was that he wants to input human-annotated games into his learning machine. My point was that humans writings are not very precise (especially when using a non-native language). On 12/14/06, Chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had such annotated games, wouldn't you also need an impressive English language parser? Even more impressive if you consider the task of parsing English-as-a-second-language dialects. I do not understand the meaning of this sentence. Could you please explain it more explicetly? Chrilly On 12/13/06, 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you. I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for machine learning. (for example, these stones are weak, this move is for attack those stones, this move was bad ...etc) Does anyone know such researches? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
