Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[Urban Hafner]

It's always great to have more options. I will give it a try at some point. 

One question that's not totally related to your server. How is scoring 
generally handled when it comes to the clock? On your server the clock seems to 
run even when running final_status_list and final_score when if I understood 
you correctly. How is this handled on KGS? I would have assumed that the clock 
stops while these two commands are running. 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 22.05.2016 um 10:56 schrieb Henry Hemming :
> 
> Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go server.
> 
> http://goratingserver.appspot.com
> 
> Here are a few reasons why its bot friendly. Its a simple (and very pretty) 
> auto match server, with no handicaps, and only such pairings that there is a 
> reasonable chance for both players to win. The only rule-set is Chinese and 
> there is no arbitration in scoring, server provides estimate on which stones 
> are dead, if either player thinks its wrong, they play cleanup, removing all 
> dead stones from the board. Clock runs even during scoring, and there is no 
> disconnect protection, ensuring all games finish in a timely manner. There 
> are no restrictions against bots playing each other, however pairing 
> algorithm tries to avoid repeat pairings. Accounts rating are much more 
> accurate than standard elo yet will never get "heavy" allowing for quick 
> testing of bot features. All games are ranked and there is no special 
> registration requirements for bots.
> 
> While there are hundreds of games being played every day by beta testers 
> (ranging from double digit kyus to high dans), the server is still in stealth 
> mode of sorts. I would like to give any bots a few days head start before 
> opening it to the public. The server provides a RESTful interface, but there 
> is a simple GTP translation code available for it, which is used to run Pachi 
> and GnuGo at the moment.
> 
> https://github.com/typohh/GTPRest
> 
> -Henry Hemming
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> Computer-go mailing list
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Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[Henry Hemming]

I'll try to address the issues brought up as best as I can.

Regarding the game time messages (opponent resigned, please capture dead
stones, etc) not being easy to notice, I'm working on it. However the
language barrier shouldn't be a problem as the website recognizes locales
of jp, cn, kr and is translated to those languages, albeit Korean
translation is still of rather low quality. As for letting players mark
dead stones, it only causes more problems than it solves. Currently the
algorithm recognizes dead groups correctly 90% of the time, I will improve
on the algorithm (probably train a dcnn to do it). For now the remaining
10% of the time the players unfortunately have to play a few extra moves to
clear up the situation for the server.

Regarding choosing names, its actually paid feature (info in the FAQ),
partly because I have to check that the name isn't offensive. However, in
case of well known bots I can make an exception, they are after all there
partly to get visibility among go players and its only fair they get to use
their own name. Marking players as bots will probably happen in the near
future. As for your game Remi, your opponent resigned, there should have
been both audio and text notifications of it happening (the text appears
where the resign and pass buttons are during the game). I will probably
create some way of watching games in real time, but for now you can find
the links to recently played games in an rss, to which there is a link in
the FAQ.

Any and all feedback is much appreciated.

As for comparison to OGS, it tries to be everything to everyone, which just
isn't my cup of tea. I wanted to create a simple server, with reasonable
settings, where you can just play without having to worry about the
irrelevant details and trust you get good match ups (at least after the
first few games to establish your rating).

My rating system... well I'm going to try to get it published and as such
I'm not yet ready to discuss it publicly. But I can reveal the results I
got, tested it on 32k professional go games, 230k dgs games and 5.4mil
goquest games. The error rates on test data (after optimizing hyper
parameters on separate training data) were 48.254%, 46.679%, 47.072%,
comparable numbers for Elo were 48.321%, 47.795%, 48.845%, TrueSkill were
48.313%, 46.914%, 47.194%, and for Glicko 48.289%, 46.704%, 47.127%.
Runtime is O(1) which is roughtly 50% slower than Glicko or Trueskill. I
hope it serve well on my go server :)

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 6:02 PM daniel rich  wrote:

> Nice, Thanks Henry!
>
> I am in the process of bringing up my first bot(as are a bunch of people)
> so I will probably try and connect in the next couple of days.
>
> --Danny
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Petr Baudis  wrote:
>
>>   Hi!
>>
>> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 08:56:09AM +, Henry Hemming wrote:
>> > Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go
>> server.
>> >
>> > http://goratingserver.appspot.com
>>
>>   I tried a game last evening too.  I didn't mind not being able to
>> choose my nickname too much (I just clicked until I got a rodent nick ;),
>> and I liked the mechanics and minimalism in general.
>>
>>   However, at the end of the game both me and my opponent became a bit
>> confused as we didn't realize we have to capture dead stones; I'd
>> strongly suggest adding ability to mark dead stones before releasing it
>> to wider audience; playing it out is really tedious and my opponent
>> didn't realize they had to do it at all (the message is not so well
>> visible, they might not know English or even know how to read).
>>
>>   I'm not sure if I'll return; if I wanted to play in the browser, I'd
>> pick OGS and it doesn't seem clear what the advantages of your server
>> are, possibly besides your unique rating algorithm (which I'd also love
>> to hear more about).
>>
>> --
>> Petr Baudis
>> If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers,
>> you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton
>> ___
>> Computer-go mailing list
>> Computer-go@computer-go.org
>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>>
>
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Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[daniel rich]

Nice, Thanks Henry!

I am in the process of bringing up my first bot(as are a bunch of people)
so I will probably try and connect in the next couple of days.

--Danny

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Petr Baudis  wrote:

>   Hi!
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 08:56:09AM +, Henry Hemming wrote:
> > Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go
> server.
> >
> > http://goratingserver.appspot.com
>
>   I tried a game last evening too.  I didn't mind not being able to
> choose my nickname too much (I just clicked until I got a rodent nick ;),
> and I liked the mechanics and minimalism in general.
>
>   However, at the end of the game both me and my opponent became a bit
> confused as we didn't realize we have to capture dead stones; I'd
> strongly suggest adding ability to mark dead stones before releasing it
> to wider audience; playing it out is really tedious and my opponent
> didn't realize they had to do it at all (the message is not so well
> visible, they might not know English or even know how to read).
>
>   I'm not sure if I'll return; if I wanted to play in the browser, I'd
> pick OGS and it doesn't seem clear what the advantages of your server
> are, possibly besides your unique rating algorithm (which I'd also love
> to hear more about).
>
> --
> Petr Baudis
> If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers,
> you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton
> ___
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
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Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[Petr Baudis]

  Hi!

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 08:56:09AM +, Henry Hemming wrote:
> Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go server.
> 
> http://goratingserver.appspot.com

  I tried a game last evening too.  I didn't mind not being able to
choose my nickname too much (I just clicked until I got a rodent nick ;),
and I liked the mechanics and minimalism in general.

  However, at the end of the game both me and my opponent became a bit
confused as we didn't realize we have to capture dead stones; I'd
strongly suggest adding ability to mark dead stones before releasing it
to wider audience; playing it out is really tedious and my opponent
didn't realize they had to do it at all (the message is not so well
visible, they might not know English or even know how to read).

  I'm not sure if I'll return; if I wanted to play in the browser, I'd
pick OGS and it doesn't seem clear what the advantages of your server
are, possibly besides your unique rating algorithm (which I'd also love
to hear more about).

-- 
Petr Baudis
If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers,
you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton
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Re: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for your message. I tried your server (as a human player, not a bot). It 
might become an interesting alternative to CGOS, mixing humans and bots 
together.

I find it annoying that I cannot choose my pseudo. I understand that you might 
not want to worry about moderating offensive pseudos. But it is really 
frustrating.

Also, I would like to be able to watch games played by others.

I (GentleWindCrow) just played a game against "CurlyLion". After a while, it 
stopped playing. I believe I might have lost on time. But there was no message, 
and the game became blocked.

It would be nice to indicate whether the opponent is bot or human.

I am curious about your rating system, too.

Rémi

- Mail original -
De: "Henry Hemming" 
À: computer-go@computer-go.org
Envoyé: Dimanche 22 Mai 2016 10:56:09
Objet: [Computer-go] new bot friendly go server.



Hello, I would like to invite all you go bot developers to my new go server. 


http://goratingserver.appspot.com 


Here are a few reasons why its bot friendly. Its a simple (and very pretty) 
auto match server, with no handicaps, and only such pairings that there is a 
reasonable chance for both players to win. The only rule-set is Chinese and 
there is no arbitration in scoring, server provides estimate on which stones 
are dead, if either player thinks its wrong, they play cleanup, removing all 
dead stones from the board. Clock runs even during scoring, and there is no 
disconnect protection, ensuring all games finish in a timely manner. There are 
no restrictions against bots playing each other, however pairing algorithm 
tries to avoid repeat pairings. Accounts rating are much more accurate than 
standard elo yet will never get "heavy" allowing for quick testing of bot 
features. All games are ranked and there is no special registration 
requirements for bots. 


While there are hundreds of games being played every day by beta testers 
(ranging from double digit kyus to high dans), the server is still in stealth 
mode of sorts. I would like to give any bots a few days head start before 
opening it to the public. The server provides a RESTful interface, but there is 
a simple GTP translation code available for it, which is used to run Pachi and 
GnuGo at the moment. 


https://github.com/typohh/GTPRest 



-Henry Hemming 
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