Re: [Computer-go] Aya won December 2014 KGS bot tournament
On 08/12/2014 13:04, Aja Huang wrote: Hi, https://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=s&id=933 Congratulations to Aya, the winner of December 2014 KGS bot tournament. I have some questions.(Sorry, Nick, if you would answer any of them in your report but I can't wait anyway) 1. Looks like Aya has improved significantly in the last year. Hiroshi, could you let us know what are the major improvements? 2. Was the new, rewritten version of Orego running on the tournament? 3. Does anyone have information about HiraBot? Is it a new program? It looks very strong, defeating coldmilk and Fuego. Yes, congratulations to Aya! I have just uploaded my report (which says nothing about the actual games) to http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/108/index.html and will as usual welcome your comments and corrections. I first heard of HiraBot when it entered this August's KGS bot tournament. It is the work of Kiyoshi Fukumoto. That is all I know about it. Nick I hope this list is not dying. :) Regards, Aja ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] December KGS b0t tournament: 13x13
Reminder - it's tomorrow. On 29/11/2014 17:49, Nick Wedd wrote: The December KGS bot tournament will be held next Sunday, December 7th, starting at 19:00 UTC and ending at 22:00 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=933 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] December KGS b0t tournament: 13x13
The December KGS bot tournament will be held next Sunday, December 7th, starting at 19:00 UTC and ending at 22:00 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=933 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to AyaMC!
Delayed congratulations to AyaMC, winner of last Sunday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games! My report, which says nothing about the games themselves, is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/107/index.html My thanks to Hideki Kato, for pointing out an error in the table of annual points at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/annual/index.html ; and to Petr Baudiš, for reasons explained in the report. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Reminder: November KGS bot tournament: 19x19
The November KGS bot tournament will be held this Sunday, November 16th, starting at 11:00 UTC and ending at 19:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=930 . I will be on holiday from tomorrow, and will not have access to this mailing list, nor to my n...@maproom.co.uk address. It is also the reason for the non-standard start time. I will be running the event from a laptop, and will have access to email sent to mapr...@gmail.com . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament: 19x19
The November KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday November 16th, starting at 11:00 UTC and ending at 19:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=930 . I will be on holiday at the time. This is the reason for the non-standard start time. It also means that from a few days before the event, I will not have access to my usual email address from which I am posting this, so you will need to use mapr...@gmail.com to register. Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Zombie processes
Yesterday F J Dickhut won his game in the "codecentric go challenge 2014" five-game match against Crazy Stone, bringing the score to 3-1, and winning the match. My congratulations to Franz Dickhut! I hope such an event will be held again next year. I have just read a posting by 'leichtloeslich' at http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10890&p=175108#p175108 which reads > Crazystone had several disconnections during the game. > > After the first disconnect (and subsequent reconnect), appearently > a second instance of Crazystone was running in the background (I > think all the way till the second disconnect, you can read about this > in the KGS kibitz from the end of the game), so that for about 1/3 of > the game Crazystone was running on merely half the processing > power/memory it should have been able to use. I have come across a similar problem before. In the 2010 European Go Congress, I was sent a copy of Leela to operate. It had a few disconnects (after which I simply restarted it), but did badly, losing all its games. At the end of the event, when I shut down the machine it had been using, I found multiple copies of Leela running, which would all have been competing for resources. I wonder how practicable it would be for a bot, on startup, to search for other copies of itself running, and issue a warning if it finds any. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Date of November KGS bot tournament
At present, the November KGS bot tournament is scheduled for Sunday November 9th, starting at 08:00 UTC. Hideki Kato has pointed out to me that this clashes with the Game Programming Workshop 2014 (GPW-14) on November 7th-9th, making it difficult for Japanese programmers to enter. I therefore propose postponing it to November 16th, starting at 11:00 UTC, and probably ending at 17:00 UTC (I will be on holiday with friends, making a start at 08:00 UTC difficult for me). If any of you are planning to enter but find this date impossible, please let me know soon, and I will try to find a better date. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Fuego!
Congratulations to Fuego9, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament! The results are at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/106/index.html and as usual I welcome your corrections and comments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 9x9
Reninder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 05/10/2014 15:37, Nick Wedd wrote: The October KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday October 12th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 23:00 UTC. It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of exactly 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=929 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 9x9
The October KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday October 12th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 23:00 UTC. It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of exactly 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=929 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Interviews on codecentric Challenge
Hi Ingo, Thank you for telling us about this. I shall be watching with interest. I plan to use my KGS admin powers to increase awareness of the games, as they are played on KGS. So, I wonder if you can tell me the account names to be used by the players, and what room the games will be played in? Cheers, Nick on Saturday, October 04, the first game of the codecentric Challenge 2014 between Franz-Josef Dickhut (German 6-dan) and Remi Coulom's CrazyStone will be played. Dr. Raymond-Georg Snatzke has interviewed both FJ and Remi. Read here: https://blog.codecentric.de/en/2014/10/codecentric-go-challenge-2014-interviews-franz-josef-dickhut-remi-coulom/ Cheers, Ingo. ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Bayeisan/Probablistic Playouts in Computer Go
I may be misunderstanding or misremembering - but I think that CrazyStone used, maybe still uses, a shape library to assign Bayesian priors. Nick On 25/09/2014 23:28, Alexander Terenin wrote: Hello everybody, I’m a PhD student in statistics at the University of California, Santa Cruz who previously worked on the Go program Orego, currently in the process of applying for the NSF fellowship. I am working on a Bayesian statistics - related research proposal that I would like to use in my application, and wanted to know if someone was aware of any research related to my topic that has been done. Currently, it seems most MCTS-based Go programs, in the playouts, treat the strength (win rate) of each move as a fixed, unknown value, which is then estimated using frequentist techniques (specifically, by playing a random game, and taking the estimate to be wins / total runs). Has anyone attempted to instead statistically estimate the strength of each move using Bayesian techniques, by defining a set of prior beliefs about the strength of a certain move, playing a random game, and then integrating the information gained from the random game together with the prior beliefs using Bayes' Rule? Equivalently, has anyone defined the strength of each move to be a random variable rather than a fixed and unknown value? Without making this email too long, there’s some theoretical advantages that might allow for more information to be extracted from each playout if this setup is used. If you are aware of any work in this direction that has been done, I would love to hear from you! I’ve been looking through a variety of papers, and have yet to find anything - it seems that any work remotely related to Bayes’ Rule has concerned the tree, not the playouts. Thank you in advance, Alex Terenin atere...@ucsc.edu ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 23/09/2014 19:07, Peter Drake wrote: Minor correction: Orego's hardware should be: It will be running on one of the five nodes of Fido, our custom Linux cluster. The node has two AMD Six Core Dual Opteron 2427 2.2 GHz processors (12 cores total), 8 GB RAM, Centos Linux. It is running with 12 threads. Thank you, Peter. Now corrected. Nick On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: Hi, Thank you for the tournament and report, Nick. have time limits not exceeding one or two hours. I would like to know the opinions of other bot operators. I like long time setting twice a year. We can see the best performance, and it can be a good chance to check memory and time control. Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of this week's "slow" bot tournament! It won all its games, despite suspected hardware problems causing its operator Hideki Kato to progressively remove computers from the network running it, as the tournament proceeded. The results are at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S14.2/index.html and as usual I welcome your corrections and comments. Hideki Kato has emailed me, saying that in his opinion four hours each is too long, and he would prefer future bot tournaments to have time limits not exceeding one or two hours. I would like to know the opinions of other bot operators. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] September KGS bot tournament: 19x19, SLOW
Reminder - it starts in about 14 hours from the time of posting this. Nick On 04/09/2014 20:04, Nick Wedd wrote: The September KGS bot tournament will be start on Sunday September 14th, starting at 22:00 UTC. It will end by 14:00 UTC on Wedbnesday September 17th. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of almost four hours each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=923 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . I am not going to repeat the experiment of replacing the scheduled eight-round Swiss by double round robin if the numbers are low. There is too much that can go wrong, including (as last month) crashing the tournament scheduler so that no KGS tournaments at all can proceed. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] September KGS bot tournament: 19x19, SLOW
The September KGS bot tournament will be start on Sunday September 14th, starting at 22:00 UTC. It will end by 14:00 UTC on Wedbnesday September 17th. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of almost four hours each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=923 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . I am not going to repeat the experiment of replacing the scheduled eight-round Swiss by double round robin if the numbers are low. There is too much that can go wrong, including (as last month) crashing the tournament scheduler so that no KGS tournaments at all can proceed. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] need help about KGS bot config
On 02/09/2014 10:47, angpoo wrote: Hello. I'm Lim Jaebum author of DolBaram. DolBaram is ranked bot now. But still open free game. here's my config. --- room=Computer Go mode=custom reconnect=true undo=false rules=chinese rules.boardSize=19 rules.time=1:00+5x0:15 --- Did I miss something? Nothing in the config file affects whether the bot will play rated games. And I see that DolBaram has been playing rated games, for about 36 hours now. Nick ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Komi for 13x13
On 05/08/2014 14:05, Erik van der Werf wrote: On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: On 05/08/2014 12:25, Erik van der Werf wrote: Here's an intuitive argument for why I believe 7.5 komi is too high on any of the larger boards. On very small (square odd-surface) boards there is no room for White to live (Black takes all points). Past a certain point (5x5), Black can no longer control the full board, so White also starts to take some points. Initially there is not much room left for White, so the perfect komi remains a bit high (e.g., 9 for 7x7), but as the size increases the White move values start to approach those of Black and I expect the advantage of the initiative to decrease to a constant (probably 7 or 5 points). Since we have reasonable indications that the first player score on 9x9 is no higher than 7, and because it is unlikely to increase with size, the main question is if it remains at 7, or if it drops down further (e.g., to 5). (even values such as 6 are much less likely on odd-surface boards with area scoring). Of course one could still argue that 7 is correct, and we just add 0.5 to prevent ties, but then I'd rather subtract 0.5 and go for a komi of 6.5 because I prefer the small advantage to go to the first player. I find your logic convincing. We'll see if others do. But even if they do, is that a sufficient reason for changing the komi in events that I run? With 9x9, getting the komi slightly wrong biases the results markedly, and so should be avoided. With 19x19, getting the komi slightly wrong makes much less difference to the results of games, and it may be better to use slightly wrong komi than to inconvenience those bot authors who have not persuaded their bots to understand integer komi and the possibility of jigo. Sure, I understand. But on the other hand, does it really matter if occasionally some bot doesn't get jigo? Also, they have to get this right anyway for the 9x9 tournaments. I think the choice should be made based on weighting the advantage of having no ties (always a winner, easy pairing) against the amount of bias in the starting condition (so it also matters if, e.g., you run single or double round robin). Weighting the two, I prefer fractional komi for 19x19 and integer komi for 9x9. For 13x13 I'm not sure, but I'm tempted to go for integer komi as well. In any case, if you don't want integer komi you could still switch to 6.5. It might be interesting to see if that turns it into hinting at a slight advantage for Black. BTW Nick, is there any chance that you will at some point run a kgs tournament with territory scoring? I'm still hoping that one day we will play Japanese rules with 6.5 komi. (Regardless of the komi, I think the more fine-grained territory scores would make the games more interesting, especially on 9x9.) I use area scoring because, with the KGS clean-up procedure, it allows almost all games to end without my intervention. KGS does not offer a similar mechanism for what it calls "Japanese rules". I do not want to be required to apply my rules knowledge and counting ability in a game which ends with the players disputing the status of a "bent four in the corner". Ah yes, that makes sense. Implementing a proper cleanup procedure for territory scoring is not difficult. Of course a practical implementation might differ slightly from the official Japanese rules, but then again KGS didn't really implement the official Chinese rules either... The issue is not that it's difficult, it's that wms will not have time to do it. If he ever does have some time to work on KGS, there are many higher priorities, including getting the stone-click in the human client to work without a messy bodge, and getting the authentication for the human client to work for users who install the latest release of Java. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Komi for 13x13
On 05/08/2014 12:25, Erik van der Werf wrote: Here's an intuitive argument for why I believe 7.5 komi is too high on any of the larger boards. On very small (square odd-surface) boards there is no room for White to live (Black takes all points). Past a certain point (5x5), Black can no longer control the full board, so White also starts to take some points. Initially there is not much room left for White, so the perfect komi remains a bit high (e.g., 9 for 7x7), but as the size increases the White move values start to approach those of Black and I expect the advantage of the initiative to decrease to a constant (probably 7 or 5 points). Since we have reasonable indications that the first player score on 9x9 is no higher than 7, and because it is unlikely to increase with size, the main question is if it remains at 7, or if it drops down further (e.g., to 5). (even values such as 6 are much less likely on odd-surface boards with area scoring). Of course one could still argue that 7 is correct, and we just add 0.5 to prevent ties, but then I'd rather subtract 0.5 and go for a komi of 6.5 because I prefer the small advantage to go to the first player. I find your logic convincing. We'll see if others do. But even if they do, is that a sufficient reason for changing the komi in events that I run? With 9x9, getting the komi slightly wrong biases the results markedly, and so should be avoided. With 19x19, getting the komi slightly wrong makes much less difference to the results of games, and it may be better to use slightly wrong komi than to inconvenience those bot authors who have not persuaded their bots to understand integer komi and the possibility of jigo. Best, Erik BTW Nick, is there any chance that you will at some point run a kgs tournament with territory scoring? I'm still hoping that one day we will play Japanese rules with 6.5 komi. (Regardless of the komi, I think the more fine-grained territory scores would make the games more interesting, especially on 9x9.) I use area scoring because, with the KGS clean-up procedure, it allows almost all games to end without my intervention. KGS does not offer a similar mechanism for what it calls "Japanese rules". I do not want to be required to apply my rules knowledge and counting ability in a game which ends with the players disputing the status of a "bent four in the corner". Nick On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: In January 2011, I took a poll on what komi to use for 9x9 bot tournaments on KGS. There was a majority in favour of changing from 7.5 to 7. During Sunday's 13x13 KGS bot tour, someone suggested also changing the 13x13 komi from 7.5 to 7. The main argument for changing must be that 7.5 favours White. So here are the statistics from recent KGS 13x13 bot tournaments: White Black wins wins 2014 August 13 9 April 36 27 2103 December12 18 April 28 20 TOTALS 89 74 I am inclined to think there is not a convincing reason to change. But I will welcome persuasion; or better, more statistics. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Komi for 13x13
In January 2011, I took a poll on what komi to use for 9x9 bot tournaments on KGS. There was a majority in favour of changing from 7.5 to 7. During Sunday's 13x13 KGS bot tour, someone suggested also changing the 13x13 komi from 7.5 to 7. The main argument for changing must be that 7.5 favours White. So here are the statistics from recent KGS 13x13 bot tournaments: White Black wins wins 2014 August 13 9 April 36 27 2103 December12 18 April 28 20 TOTALS 89 74 I am inclined to think there is not a convincing reason to change. But I will welcome persuasion; or better, more statistics. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to pachi!
Congratulations to pachi, winner of yesterday's 13x13 KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/105/index.html and as usual I look forward to receiving your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 25/07/2014 18:44, Nick Wedd wrote: The August KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday August 3rd, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 14:40 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 19 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=911 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . If there are less than seven entrants, the usual Swiss tournament will be replaced by a double-round-robin tournament (each player will play each other players twice), starting five minutes later, at 08:05. This tournament's details are at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=912 . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
On 31/07/2014 11:33, Nick Wedd wrote: I am currently accepting registrations for Sunday's KGS bot tournament, but am temporarily unable to get them listed at https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=911 as the KGS tournament scheduler has crashed. I expect it to be rebooted soon. Can anyone (Aloril?) please let me have a Windows executable that uses kgsGtp? It need not play well, and should use little processor power. Passbot would be ideal. The KGS tournament scheduler has been rebooted, and is working. I did some tests on it today. Hiroshi Yamashita has kindly provided an executable for a weak fast bot. So the tournament will go ahead as planned - more entrants are of course welcome. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
I am currently accepting registrations for Sunday's KGS bot tournament, but am temporarily unable to get them listed at https://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=911 as the KGS tournament scheduler has crashed. I expect it to be rebooted soon. Can anyone (Aloril?) please let me have a Windows executable that uses kgsGtp? It need not play well, and should use little processor power. Passbot would be ideal. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 25/07/2014 14:17, Steve Kroon wrote: Hey Nick. Some feedback on this report: ( http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S14.1/index.html ) -"In round 1, AyaMC, playing black against NiceGo19N, played move 40 as shown to the right." However, move 40 is a move by white, and the discussions in the thread indicate NiceGo19N played the move. -"I had expected it to play at 82, aiming to save a black group and kill a white group in ko". Presumably you mean kill a black group and save a white group in ko? You are right about both. Thank you, Steve, for pointing out my mistakes, I have now corrected them. Nick Steve On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: Congratulations to Zen 19S, winner of this week's KGS Slow bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S14.1/index.html As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
The August KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday August 3rd, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 14:40 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 19 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=911 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . If there are less than seven entrants, the usual Swiss tournament will be replaced by a double-round-robin tournament (each player will play each other players twice), starting five minutes later, at 08:05. This tournament's details are at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=912 . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 16/07/2014 16:32, Erik van der Werf wrote: I think in cases like this it would be better to reduce to (double) round-robin. It would. To do it, I would need to cancel the Swiss tournament, create a double round robin tournament, and enter all the players into the new tournament. This all seems simple enough, particularly as I could arrange for the new tournament to start say 10 minutes after the start time of the cancelled one, so as to give myself time to set it up. The problem is with cancelling a tournament. The obvious solution, of removing all the players and forgetting about it, does not work: when the playerless tournament starts, the scheduler tries to pair off the (empty) set of players, fails, and hangs. It is not just the scheduler for that tournament that hangs, it is the entire scheduler module. Then no more rounds in _any_ KGS tournament can start until wms has rebooted the scheduler module. I guess I could create another bot account or two, for the purpose of playing, alone, in otherwise cancelled tournaments. I wouldn't need to run actual bots, just accounts that fail to join their games and lose on time will do. I shall do some tests to check that this works. Nick Erik On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the July KGS computer Go tournament, with seven wins from seven games! My very short report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/104/index.html As usual I will welcome any corrections and comments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the July KGS computer Go tournament, with seven wins from seven games! My very short report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/104/index.html As usual I will welcome any corrections and comments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS 19x19 bot tournament, July 6
Reminder: it's tomorrow. Nick On 29/06/2014 19:29, Nick Wedd wrote: The July KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday July 6th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 23:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 29 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=898 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS 19x19 bot tournament, July 6
The July KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday July 6th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 23:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 29 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=898 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Specifying Chinese rules in SGF
On 23/06/2014 22:16, Erik van der Werf wrote: Just use "Chinese". It is mentioned in FF[3] (e.g., see http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/ff1_3/ff3.html#Properties under Root Properties). I see no reason why this would have changed. Notice that the Chinese rules don't really use positional superko. The KGS version of the Chinese rules do, but the official Chinese rules are a bit more sophisticated... Well yes. When wms wrote KGS, he implemented what the Chinese rules said (or rather, what the official English translation of them said) rather than what they meant. Nick Erik On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:03 PM, Peter Drake wrote: SGF(2) has a place to specify the ruleset, according to http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html: Property: RU Propvalue: simpletext Propertytype: game-info Function: Provides the used rules for this game. Because there are many different rules, SGF requires mandatory names only for a small set of well known rule sets. Note: it's beyond the scope of this specification to give an exact specification of these rule sets. Mandatory names for Go (GM[1]): "AGA" (rules of the American Go Association) "GOE" (the Ing rules of Goe) "Japanese" (the Nihon-Kiin rule set) "NZ" (New Zealand rules) How can we specify the Chinese rules normally used in computer Go? They're *almost* equivalent to AGA rules, but AGA uses situational superko while Chinese uses positional superko. The difference would only come up extremely rarely, potentially making for a nasty bug. For those who don't know these terms: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Superko -- Peter Drake https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/ ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 04/06/2014 21:55, Hideki Kato wrote: Nick Wedd: <538ee875.2040...@maproom.co.uk>: On 03/06/2014 19:30, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote: Hi Nick, thanks for organising this fantastic event. Question: Did some of the bots use opening book learning? I know that Zen did, because Hideki Kato asked my permission to change its opening book after round 3. As for the others, you will have to ask their programmers. I would also be interested to know which of them ponder. No, Zen does no book learning. The reason I asked that was simple. Just trying another, 4-4 instead of popular 5-5, opening. A pedant might argue that a 1-move opening book is still an opening book. There is a continuum from pure MC programs, which evaluate all 81 possible opening moves before choosing one, to programs with extensive opening books. I accept that Zen is very near the beginning of this continuum. Nick Hideki (In general, entrants may change the state of their program during a tournament, so long as this is not done in response to the state of an ongoing game or to the identity of the expected next opponent.) Nick Ingo. Gesendet: Dienstag, 03. Juni 2014 um 16:52 Uhr Von: "Nick Wedd" An: computer-go@dvandva.org Betreff: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen! Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of Sunday's 9x9 KGS bot tournament!>>> This was a particularly exciting tournament. My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/103/index.html I hope you will send me your comments and point out my mistakes, as usual. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 03/06/2014 19:30, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote: Hi Nick, thanks for organising this fantastic event. Question: Did some of the bots use opening book learning? I know that Zen did, because Hideki Kato asked my permission to change its opening book after round 3. As for the others, you will have to ask their programmers. I would also be interested to know which of them ponder. (In general, entrants may change the state of their program during a tournament, so long as this is not done in response to the state of an ongoing game or to the identity of the expected next opponent.) Nick Ingo. Gesendet: Dienstag, 03. Juni 2014 um 16:52 Uhr Von: "Nick Wedd" An: computer-go@dvandva.org Betreff: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen! Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of Sunday's 9x9 KGS bot tournament! This was a particularly exciting tournament. My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/103/index.html I hope you will send me your comments and point out my mistakes, as usual. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of Sunday's 9x9 KGS bot tournament! This was a particularly exciting tournament. My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/103/index.html I hope you will send me your comments and point out my mistakes, as usual. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS 9x9 bot tournament, June 1
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 23/05/2014 18:52, Nick Wedd wrote: The June KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday June 1st, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 14:00 UTC. It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 4 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=888 . Note that the integer komi allows jigo as a result. Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS 9x9 bot tournament, June 1
On 23/05/2014 18:52, Nick Wedd wrote: The June KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday June 1st, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 14:00 UTC. It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 4 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=888 . ^^^ Maybe that number will encourage Chinese entrants? Note that the integer komi allows jigo as a result. Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS 9x9 bot tournament, June 1
The June KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday June 1st, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 14:00 UTC. It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 4 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=888 . Note that the integer komi allows jigo as a result. Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games! My very short report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/102/index.html As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS 19x19 bot tournament, May 11
Reminder: it's tomorrow. Nick On 02/05/2014 09:02, Nick Wedd wrote: The May KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday May 11th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 22:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=887 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS 19x19 bot tournament, May 11
The May KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday May 11th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 22:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time limits of 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=887 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 09/04/2014 20:58, Erik van der Werf wrote: (1) We have pretty good indications that 7.0 is optimal for 9x9. (2) There is no reason to assume perfect komi to increase with boardsize, and (3) for 19x19 (with area scoring) quite likely it should be 5.0 or 7.0 (so the slope from 9x9 to 19x19 is probably quite flat). Computers are still fairly weak on 13x13, so it's not urgent yet, but if I'd have to make an educated guess I'd say 7.0 is best for 13x13. Further, if draws are considered undesirable I'd prefer 6.5 over 7.5 because I don't like first player disadvantage. We decided the komi for use in KGS 9x9 bot tournament by majority vote. maybe we should do the same for 13x13? Nick Erik On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: On 09/04/2014 15:39, Christoph Birk wrote: On Apr 9, 2014, at 7:24 AM, "uurtamo ." wrote: I'm not sure what you're hoping to measure with that On Apr 9, 2014 7:21 AM, "Christoph Birk" wrote: On Apr 9, 2014, at 1:23 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: Adding up the results for the last four KGS 13x13 bot tournaments, all played with 7½ komi, I find that Black has won 101, White has won 112. How does this statistic look if you only include games _between_ bots that have more wins than losses? Nick posted the above statistic (B+101, W+112). I assume he wanted to support his opinion that 7 is the proper komi for 13x13. No - I wanted to show that we have insufficient evidence to claim that 7.5 is too high. It was derived from all games in the tournaments. It was derived in all games in 13x13 tournaments since April 2013, when my reports started to include counts of black and white wins, of the form "Black won 28 games and White won 32". If anyone wants to go through the results of more KGS 13x13 tournaments, excluding games involving whatever they consider to be "weaker programs", and report on what they find, I will be interested. I suggest they use the links at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/index.html , and that they start on or after June 2010, when I started to include cross-tables in my reports. Nick I think that games between or against weaker programs should be ignored, since they are mostly noise. Christoph ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 09/04/2014 15:39, Christoph Birk wrote: On Apr 9, 2014, at 7:24 AM, "uurtamo ." wrote: I'm not sure what you're hoping to measure with that On Apr 9, 2014 7:21 AM, "Christoph Birk" wrote: On Apr 9, 2014, at 1:23 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: Adding up the results for the last four KGS 13x13 bot tournaments, all played with 7½ komi, I find that Black has won 101, White has won 112. How does this statistic look if you only include games _between_ bots that have more wins than losses? Nick posted the above statistic (B+101, W+112). I assume he wanted to support his opinion that 7 is the proper komi for 13x13. No - I wanted to show that we have insufficient evidence to claim that 7.5 is too high. It was derived from all games in the tournaments. It was derived in all games in 13x13 tournaments since April 2013, when my reports started to include counts of black and white wins, of the form "Black won 28 games and White won 32". If anyone wants to go through the results of more KGS 13x13 tournaments, excluding games involving whatever they consider to be "weaker programs", and report on what they find, I will be interested. I suggest they use the links at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/index.html , and that they start on or after June 2010, when I started to include cross-tables in my reports. Nick I think that games between or against weaker programs should be ignored, since they are mostly noise. Christoph ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
On 08/04/2014 06:45, Stefan Kaitschick wrote: Yes, thanks. Far better than what the UEC cup has to offer for results. In the game Zen lost, n10 was just as big as c6, while also removing the ko. But Zen was about 2.5 behind, so it didn't care. With the hair-raising tenukis, bots are turning the 13*13 games into bloody battles ,reminiscent of their awesome 9*9 games. But it doesn't quite carry the same conviction yet. Looking at the results, I'm wondering if the komi has to be changed to integer 7, like in the 9*9 games. If that were true, that would certainly be an indicator of high quality. Adding up the results for the last four KGS 13x13 bot tournaments, all played with 7½ komi, I find that Black has won 101, White has won 112. My thanks to Hideki Kato and John Tromp for their corrections to my report. Nick Stefan On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: Congratulations to Zen 19S, winner of this month's KGS bot tournament, with 20 wins from 21 games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/101/index.html As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen 19S, winner of this month's KGS bot tournament, with 20 wins from 21 games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/101/index.html As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS 13x13 bot tournament, April 6th
Reminder: it's tomorrow. Nick On 12/03/2014 18:47, Nick Wedd wrote: The April KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday April 6th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 15:00 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=880 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . I may be unable to read this list for most of the rest of March, so if there are any problems, please tell me using my gmail address above, not the one below. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS 13x13 bot tournament, April 6th
The April KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday April 6th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 15:00 UTC. It will use 13x13 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds, and komi of 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=880 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . I may be unable to read this list for most of the rest of March, so if there are any problems, please tell me using my gmail address above, not the one below. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen 19S, winner of this week's KGS Slow bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S14.1/index.html As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS SLOW bot tournament, March 2nd-5th
Reminder - it starts this Sunday (late on Sunday evening, if you are in Europe). I will be away from home from now until after it has started, and will receive registration emails, and other emails to my gmail address, but will not be able to read or post to this list. So I will not be sending my usual "it's tomorrow" reminder. Nick On 24/02/2014 08:36, Nick Wedd wrote: The March KGS SLOW bot tournament will be held starting on Sunday March 2nd at 22:00 UTC and ending by 14:00 UTC on Wednesday March 5th. It will have 8 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 2 hours 55 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 1 minute. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=877 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS SLOW bot tournament, March 2nd-5th
The March KGS SLOW bot tournament will be held starting on Sunday March 2nd at 22:00 UTC and ending by 14:00 UTC on Wednesday March 5th. It will have 8 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 2 hours 55 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 1 minute. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=877 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to CrazyStone!
On 04/02/2014 12:04, Rémi Coulom wrote: Thanks Nick. In round 18, Crazy Stone lost to Zen, not pachi. Now the seki errors of CS vs Zen are already fixed ;-) In the annual table, nomitan gets a “0” but was not in the tournament. The performance of DolBaram is really impressive, considering that it was running on 4 cores. If DolBaram can get good hardware for the UEC Cup, I believe it will have very good chances of winning. Rémi Thank you for pointing out these errors, now corrected. Nick On 4 févr. 2014, at 12:48, Nick Wedd wrote: Congratulations to CrazyStone, winner of the February KGS 9x9 bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/100/index.html As usual I look forward to receiving your corrections and comments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to CrazyStone!
Congratulations to CrazyStone, winner of the February KGS 9x9 bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/100/index.html As usual I look forward to receiving your corrections and comments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournament, this Sunday
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 30/01/2014 23:21, Nick Wedd wrote: The February KGS bot tournament will be held this Sunday, February 12th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 23:00 UTC. I apologise for the very short notice. It will have 21 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7. Note that the integer komi allows jigo as a possible result; if your bot fails to understand this, it may get a jigo where it thought it had a half-point win, or accept a 1-point loss where it could have had a jigo. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=874 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS bot tournament, this Sunday
The February KGS bot tournament will be held this Sunday, February 12th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 23:00 UTC. I apologise for the very short notice. It will have 21 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7. Note that the integer komi allows jigo as a possible result; if your bot fails to understand this, it may get a jigo where it thought it had a half-point win, or accept a 1-point loss where it could have had a jigo. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=874 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, undefeated winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/99/index.html It probably has more errors than usual. I hope you will report them to me. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournament, this Sunday
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 08/01/2014 17:09, Nick Wedd wrote: The January KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday January 12th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 16:00 UTC. It will have 8 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 29 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi> will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=859 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS bot tournament, this Sunday
The January KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday January 12th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 16:00 UTC. It will have 8 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 29 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi> will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=859 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] KGS bot tournament schedule, 2014
The KGS bot tournament schedule for 2014 is now available, see http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/future.html And so I am taking registrations for the next tournament, 19x19, in mid-January. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] online viewer (was Congratulations to Crazy Stone!)
On 12/12/2013 23:05, René van de Veerdonk wrote: Roughly half of the games have the change (one of every two games between two players). For those, it works great for me. Thanks! It was exactly half :-) Each game appears in the cross-table twice. I had implemented the change for just one instance. Now fixed, I hope. Nick On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: On 12/12/2013 19:04, Oliver Lewis wrote: this seems to do the trick: http://eidogo.com/#url:http://files.gokgs.com/games/2013/12/ 8/DolBaram-pachi.sgf Thank you! I have used that, and it works for me, see the current version of http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/98/index.html I shall use it in future. Nick you can either go to eidogo.com and paste in the link to the sgf, or create a url as above. it's not mobile optimised, but it works nicely on my phone with chrome for Android. Oliver On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote: Nick, Is there an online viewer you could link to which would show the games in a web-browser rather than my downloading an .sgf and then having to have a local viewer work through them? Sometimes, I would like to look at these on my mobile phone. And it's trivial to bounce to a web-page. It is non-trivial for me to select a game, dl the .sgf, migrated it to where my go viewer is (assuming I have done all the steps to download an .sgf viewer for my particular mobile phone or tablet) and finally get my viewer to show it. Anyway, if there was a simple way to have a rudimentary web-page based game viewer, it would reduce the amount of effort to explore the different games from a tournament. Thank you, Jim ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] online viewer (was Congratulations to Crazy Stone!)
On 12/12/2013 19:04, Oliver Lewis wrote: this seems to do the trick: http://eidogo.com/#url:http://files.gokgs.com/games/2013/12/8/DolBaram-pachi.sgf Thank you! I have used that, and it works for me, see the current version of http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/98/index.html I shall use it in future. Nick you can either go to eidogo.com and paste in the link to the sgf, or create a url as above. it's not mobile optimised, but it works nicely on my phone with chrome for Android. Oliver On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote: Nick, Is there an online viewer you could link to which would show the games in a web-browser rather than my downloading an .sgf and then having to have a local viewer work through them? Sometimes, I would like to look at these on my mobile phone. And it's trivial to bounce to a web-page. It is non-trivial for me to select a game, dl the .sgf, migrated it to where my go viewer is (assuming I have done all the steps to download an .sgf viewer for my particular mobile phone or tablet) and finally get my viewer to show it. Anyway, if there was a simple way to have a rudimentary web-page based game viewer, it would reduce the amount of effort to explore the different games from a tournament. Thank you, Jim ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Crazy Stone!
Since I started this thread, with the message below, I have made four more contributions to it. But none of them has shown up in my mail client (the quoted message did show up). I am wondering what is wrong. Have other readers seen my postings here after December 9th? Nick On 09/12/2013 19:31, Nick Wedd wrote: Congratulations to Crazy Stone, winner of yesterday's 13x13 KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/98/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Crazy Stone!
Congratulations to Crazy Stone, winner of yesterday's 13x13 KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/98/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] December KGS bot tournament: 13x13
Reminder - it's tomorrow. On 01/12/2013 11:19, Nick Wedd wrote: The December KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday December 8th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 22:40 UTC. It will have 10 rounds, Swiss, with 13x13 boards. The time limits will be 19 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi> will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=857 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] December KGS bot tournament: 13x13
The December KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday December 8th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 22:40 UTC. It will have 10 rounds, Swiss, with 13x13 boards. The time limits will be 19 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi> will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=857 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Crazy Stone!
On 21/11/2013 06:01, Hideki Kato wrote: Thank you for the tournament and the report, Nick. In the Annual Championship page, the positions of DolBaram and Nomitan are wrong (http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/annual/index.html). Thank you for pointing this out. I have corrected it. Best wishes, Nick Congratulations to CrazyStone! Hideki Nick Wedd: <528a6d4c.80...@maproom.co.uk>: Congratulations to Crazy Stone, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/97/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Playouts vs playingstrength
On 20/11/2013 06:45, Detlef Schmicker wrote: After turning off pondering in pachi the plot looks much more sensible: http://physik.de/playouts.pdf What is the relationship between "ELO" as shown on the graph, and Go rating, in AGA or EGF terms? Nick I will now do some comparison with proportional increasing playouts in pachi and oakfoam. Detlef Am Montag, den 18.11.2013, 21:11 +0100 schrieb Petr Baudis: On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 03:11:22PM +0100, Erik van der Werf wrote: make sure Pachi isn't doing any kind of pondering in the background. Indeed, Pachi will ponder by default. Turn pondering off by passing pondering=0 on the commandline. pachi -d 0 -t =4000 -r chinese threads=1,max_tree_size=2048 Also, it may be worth passing pass_all_alive unless you are doing a sophisticated scoring procedure, to make sure Pachi captures all dead groups at the end of the game. P.S.: Do your results imply that on 4000 playouts/move, oakfoam is quite stronger than Pachi now? I'd love to hear more. :) How does the playout speed compare? ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Crazy Stone!
On 18/11/2013 21:29, Detlef Schmicker wrote: Thanks Nick, as you ask both programmers to handle clean up correctly (round 2): I would say NiceGo did. It is by design, that it passes for the end of game if it counts a win with the clean-up rules. If you think, this is wrong handling, please explain. Of cause we want to do good handling of the clean-up phase. I don't think it is wrong. I do think it is inadvisable. You are trusting the server's score-counter to count in the way that you expect, when there are dead groups on the board and it can reasonably assume that there are no dead groups on the board. For instance, in the position shown, it counted B2 as a point for White, even while it was regarding the black stones at C1 and C3 as alive. Did your code _know_ it was going to do that? Our opening as black is really strange (round 3). We open much better with fewer playouts:) Therefore the other thread about strength vs. playouts:) It worked well against Orego :-) Nick Detlef Am Montag, den 18.11.2013, 19:41 +0000 schrieb Nick Wedd: Congratulations to Crazy Stone, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/97/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Crazy Stone!
Congratulations to Crazy Stone, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/97/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament: 19x19
Reminder - it starts in less than 11 hours. Nick On 08/11/2013 13:49, Nick Wedd wrote: The November KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday November 17th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 15:00 UTC. It will have 12 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=848 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] How many probes down the tree are necessary for a "good" bot?
On 15/11/2013 09:13, Stefan Kaitschick wrote: When you do only a single playout, you dont even need a playout, just generate the first move candidate - voilá. :-) Closed sources are indeed regretable at this point. Before, it sparked a kind of bot war, and the greatest technical advances are always made at war time. I don't altogether agree with this. Around 1999, there was a friendly "bot war" between Chen Zhixing's HandTalk and Michael Reiss's Go4++. It was fought by each seeking out weaknesses in the other's joseki dictionary, and playing to take advantage of it. The only benefit was that a few weaknesses in the dictionaries got removed. The two programs got barely any stronger against humans and other bots. Nick But now that the top bots are kind of treading water, looking for the next breakthrough, it's truly harmful. And my feeling is, that the attitude has also changed on the "academic", open source side. I only know that this forum used to present really interesting ideas, but now that is seldom the case. Possibly the problems have become too technical for general discussion. But more plausible to me is, that programmers are trying to avoid a onesided disadvantage, and are discussing their ideas in private. Well, no use crying over spilt milk.(As I, admittedly, just have) Stefan On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Darren Cook wrote: ... I'm going by the "Measuring program strength" thread (Aug 3013) where people are getting 50% against GnuGo with 1K to 10K playouts.) Actually, in that thread Hiroshi was saying he only needs 350 playouts, and Detlef was at 700. So it seems you're off by roughly a factor 10. Yes, I was surprised just how heavy the Aya (and Zen) playouts must be. We've almost come full loop, and soon the programs will be traditional computer go programs doing a single playout ;-) It is a shame the developer's skill is all dead knowledge (not open source, no papers). :-( Darren ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] November KGS bot tournament: 19x19
The November KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday November 17th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending by 15:00 UTC. It will have 12 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 14 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=848 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to DolBaram!
Congratulations to DolBaram, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament! DolBaram is a new program (at least to me). It played its first game on KGS on Saturday, and entered the tournament on Sunday, winning 32½ of its 40 games. Its programmer Lim Jaebum is Korean. My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/96/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 9x9
Reminder - it's tomorrow. Nick On 27/09/2013 14:49, Nick Wedd wrote: The October KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday October 6th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 22:40 UTC. It will have 40 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 4 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime. The komi will be 7. This is a whole number, so jigo is a possible result. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=837 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 9x9
The October KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday October 6th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending at 22:40 UTC. It will have 40 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 4 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime. The komi will be 7. This is a whole number, so jigo is a possible result. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=837 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Zen19qq and Zen19bs on KGS
On 18/09/2013 08:32, Stefan Kaitschick wrote: ..., or a human is using the bot protocol. This has happened. I don't remember the details now, it was more than five years ago, but there was a human playing through the bot client on KGS, and pretending to be a bot. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Computer Go in today's XKCD
http://xkcd.com/ (For those who don't know XKCD - it is a webcomic popular with geeks.) Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S! It won the Autumn SLow KGS bot tournament by winning all 6 of its games. My report, which just reports the results, is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S13.2/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. In view of the emails I have received from three readers of this list, I will continue to run Slow KGS bot tournaments. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] September KGS bot tournament: 19x19, slow
Reminder - it starts tomorrow. Nick On 01/09/2013 20:00, Nick Wedd wrote: The September KGS bot tournament will start at 22:00 UTC on Sunday September 8th, and end by 22:00 UTC on Tuesday August 10th. It will have 6 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be three hours each, sudden death. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=835 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . This may be the last "slow" tournament, with time limits of over an hour each, that I run. Now that cloud computing is easily available, I believe that there is little purpose in setting such slow time limits. If you want to see how a bot does given a lot of thinking time, it makes more sense to hire multiple processors than to let it run for a long time. (If you think I am wrong, you can probably convince me of it.) Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] September KGS bot tournament: 19x19, slow
The September KGS bot tournament will start at 22:00 UTC on Sunday September 8th, and end by 22:00 UTC on Tuesday August 10th. It will have 6 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be three hours each, sudden death. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=835 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . This may be the last "slow" tournament, with time limits of over an hour each, that I run. Now that cloud computing is easily available, I believe that there is little purpose in setting such slow time limits. If you want to see how a bot does given a lot of thinking time, it makes more sense to hire multiple processors than to let it run for a long time. (If you think I am wrong, you can probably convince me of it.) Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 result in Olympiad
On 27/08/2013 17:37, Hideki Kato wrote: Nick Wedd: <521cce1a.5080...@maproom.co.uk>: On 27/08/2013 15:40, Hideki Kato wrote: Darren, Darren Cook: <520f71b5.5030...@dcook.org>: And I claim there is still a lot of depth left to study. I notice Zen lost a game. When I spoke with Hideki Kato (who also shares my excitement at the remaining challenge of 9x9) about the loss he said it was a bug or difficult position, as Zen's evaluation went from 90-something to 0 in the space of a move. The game is the 4th one at http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/download_games.php?tournament=267&round=8 That link is to a game between MC_ark and martha. Sorry, the link downloads a collection sgf of the 5 games in the round. Yes, I see that it does. I don't know what I did wrong earlier. http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/round.php?tournament=267&round=8 is correct. Hideki Nick Yamato said this was a bug and would be fixed. Zen's simulation didn't simulate W D9 (48th move) at all. I sympathise with Zen. I also would not have considered W 48. Nick Hideki -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] 9x9 result in Olympiad
On 27/08/2013 15:40, Hideki Kato wrote: Darren, Darren Cook: <520f71b5.5030...@dcook.org>: And I claim there is still a lot of depth left to study. I notice Zen lost a game. When I spoke with Hideki Kato (who also shares my excitement at the remaining challenge of 9x9) about the loss he said it was a bug or difficult position, as Zen's evaluation went from 90-something to 0 in the space of a move. The game is the 4th one at http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/download_games.php?tournament=267&round=8 That link is to a game between MC_ark and martha. Nick Yamato said this was a bug and would be fixed. Zen's simulation didn't simulate W D9 (48th move) at all. Hideki -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S! It won the August KGS bot tournament (13x13) by winning all 24 of its games, a most impressive achievement! My report, which does nothing but report the results, is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/95/index.html As usual I will be grateful for your comments and corrections. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
Reminder: it's tomorrow. Nick On 15/08/2013 20:17, Nick Wedd wrote: The August KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday August 25th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 16:00 UTC. It will have 24 rounds, Swiss, with 13x13 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=832 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] August KGS bot tournament: 13x13
The August KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday August 25th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 16:00 UTC. It will have 24 rounds, Swiss, with 13x13 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=832 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Results of past Human/Computer Go challenges
Hideki, Many thanks. I have added the ionformation to computer-go.info. Nick On 18/07/2013 22:29, Hideki Kato wrote: Nick, Nick Wedd: <51e84ae4.3050...@maproom.co.uk>: I maintain a list of Human/Computer Go challenges at http://www.computer-go.info/h-c/index.html, listing them with their results. For four of the five most recent such challenges, I have failed to find any results. These are November 26th Games played probably on KGS, by MoGoTW I have no idea. Perhaps, Olivier knows? May 6thA game played by "Takuto Ooomote" against Zen, at the 27th Annual Conference of The Japanese Society for Artificial Intelligence. (I find the spelling "Ooomote" suspicious.) The date is wrong. The event was held on 5th June. I've already post the result on this list (Message-Id: <51afdc00.4850%hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp>) on "Thu, 06 Jun 2013 09:47:04 +0900". You can find more, especially in English, by Googling "Takuto Ooomote Zen", though. Ooomote is correct, btw, like Oookayama where Tokyo Institute of Technology is. Leading double "o" means "big" in Japanese (works like a prefix) and so, when the body starts with "o" you find triple "o" :). Read something like "Oh-omote". July 9th Games between "Jirong" and other strong players, and Coldmilk, Many Faces of Go, MogoTW and Zen played on KGS July 7th-10th Games between Ping-Chiang Chou 5p, Shi-Jim Yen 6d and Ching-Nung Lin 6d, and Coldmilk, Many Faces of Go, MogoTW and Zen, played as part of "FuzzIEEE2013". It is possible that the last two events were in fact the same. Yes, they are the same event. Announce in FUZZ-IEEE 2013 official site: http://www.isical.ac.in/~fuzzieee2013/?q=node/26, Actual site: http://oase.nutn.edu.tw/FUZZIEEE2013/, Schedule: http://oase.nutn.edu.tw/FUZZIEEE2013/schedule_day1.htm, Results: http://oase.nutn.edu.tw/FUZZIEEE2013/result.htm, Program (PDF, CAUTION! 10 MB): http://oase.nutn.edu.tw/FUZZIEEE2013/PDF/Program-06292013-2.pdf . Hideki I would be grateful for any information about them, particularly URLs about them, and the results, including game records if possible. I would also like to thank the organisers of the Denseisen for publishing the results of the event they ran on March 20th, in a way that is easy to find. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Results of past Human/Computer Go challenges
I maintain a list of Human/Computer Go challenges at http://www.computer-go.info/h-c/index.html, listing them with their results. For four of the five most recent such challenges, I have failed to find any results. These are November 26th Games played probably on KGS, by MoGoTW May 6thA game played by "Takuto Ooomote" against Zen, at the 27th Annual Conference of The Japanese Society for Artificial Intelligence. (I find the spelling "Ooomote" suspicious.) July 9th Games between "Jirong" and other strong players, and Coldmilk, Many Faces of Go, MogoTW and Zen played on KGS July 7th-10th Games between Ping-Chiang Chou 5p, Shi-Jim Yen 6d and Ching-Nung Lin 6d, and Coldmilk, Many Faces of Go, MogoTW and Zen, played as part of "FuzzIEEE2013". It is possible that the last two events were in fact the same. I would be grateful for any information about them, particularly URLs about them, and the results, including game records if possible. I would also like to thank the organisers of the Denseisen for publishing the results of the event they ran on March 20th, in a way that is easy to find. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS 19x19 bot tournament, with seven wins from seven games! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/94/index.html I hope that, as usual, you will give me your comments, and report my errors, either here or by private email. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] July KGS bot tournament: 19x19
The July KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday July 7th, starting at 16:00 UTC and ending by 23:00 UTC. It will have 7 rounds, Swiss, with 19x19 boards. The time limits will be 29 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime of 10 moves in 30 seconds. The komi will be 7.5. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=815 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Question on 0.5-wins
On 25/06/2013 10:07, Petri Pitkanen wrote: Bots also fill in their own territory removing very distant threats if they can afford to do it. Probably saves a loss in one game out 100 or so. I am not at all surprised by the phenomenon of half-point victories. One player, who can count perfectly, is trying to maximise its probability of winning. The other player, who cannot count perfectly and knows it, is trying to maximise his score. This naturally produces a half-point win or a large loss for the former. You see a similar result, unintended by either player but a natural outcome of their play, when a human 3-dan gives nine handicap stones to a human 7-kyu. If the 3d attacks a weak group, the 7k tries to make eyes for it, and is not good at telling real eyes from false eyes until it is too late. The 3d tries to stop the group from making real eyes, and is good at telling them from false eyes. The result is that the group makes a string of false eyes, without either player having any particular interest in this outcome. Nick Petri 2013/6/25 Stefan Kaitschick mailto:stefan.kaitsch...@hamburg.de>> I have never understood this bot behaviour, because once a position gets very close, every move becomes critical and that should depress the winrate atleast somewhat. The only explanation that I have for myself, is that while the lead is still comfortable, the bot will shun optimal moves if they require any kind of followup, because that looks less safe to the bot. Stefan ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org <mailto:Computer-go@dvandva.org> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment
On 13/06/2013 01:16, Jason House wrote: The algorithm I put was based on the first link which did not have an open face variant. My interpretation was as follows: After splitting your 13 cards into 3 hands, the top hands are compared to each other. The best top hand gets a point and the lowest loses a point. The same goes for the middle and bottom hands. That yields a score between -3 and +3. If you dump everything into one best hand, you're easily defeated by opponents who try to keep their hands at comparable strength... You would earn one point for your best hand and lose one point from each of the other two hands (net result = -1 point). There is some kind of balancing that must be done to get the best score. You might even achieve the best back hand and still lose 3-0, if you end up "fouled" with your front hand beating your middle hand. Nick Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2013, at 6:08 PM, Don Dailey mailto:dailey@gmail.com>> wrote: I don't quite see the point. The goal is to find the best possible hand YOU can make with your 13 cards and there is no betting, so I see no point in using Monte Carlo here. What am I missing? Is it whether to sacrifice one of the 3 hands to strengthen the other 2? Or in the case of a really bad hand to at least make 1 really strong hand? Don On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Jason House mailto:jason.james.ho...@gmail.com>> wrote: For a particular breakdown into 3 hands, it should be possible to do a monte carlo simulation by randomly distribute the remaining cards to the other players and then randomly separating each player's cards into 3 hands. A node in the search tree would be scored as the average result of many simulations. I can think of a few ways to build a search tree. If you have experience in the game and know a few general strategies, they will likely be very handy for achieving enough strength to evaluate the approach. The search tree should be able to give feedback on which strategy is best. The same strategies may also help improve the random opponents, but that might require more care. It's easy to introduce bias. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Oleg Barmin mailto:j2ee_desig...@mail.ru>> wrote: Sure. It's open chinese poker: http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker Среда, 12 июня 2013, 20:57 +01:00 от Nick Wedd mailto:n...@maproom.co.uk>>: On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote: > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more reference > opponents. > It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against humans. The > game is young and there are no recognized masters at the moment. So it's > very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills. > > > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks, > paper, scissors type of stuff. > The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you need to select > one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value of your > scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max expectation > value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation value at the > start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as rocks, > paper, scissors. > At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and > calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go algorithms use the > same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of the game. But > the first half is more important. Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just tell us its name? Nick > > Oleg > > > Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 от Don Dailey https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=dailey@gmail.com>>: > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland > https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=fotland@smart%2dgames.com> > http://2dgames.com>>> wrote: > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more > reference opponents. > > > Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect information such > as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious > intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff. > > Don > > > > > __ __ > > David
Re: [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment
On 12/06/2013 23:08, Don Dailey wrote:
I don't quite see the point. The goal is to find the best possible
hand YOU can make with your 13 cards and there is no betting, so I see
no point in using Monte Carlo here.
What am I missing?
Is it whether to sacrifice one of the 3 hands to strengthen the other 2?
Or in the case of a really bad hand to at least make 1 really strong
hand?
In the "open" version, you can see what hands the other players are
constructing, and act accordingly.
Also, you have to start allocating your cards to hands before you have
seen all 13 of them.
Nick
Don
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Jason House
mailto:jason.james.ho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For a particular breakdown into 3 hands, it should be possible to do
a monte carlo simulation by randomly distribute the remaining cards
to the other players and then randomly separating each player's
cards into 3 hands. A node in the search tree would be scored as the
average result of many simulations.
I can think of a few ways to build a search tree. If you have
experience in the game and know a few general strategies, they will
likely be very handy for achieving enough strength to evaluate the
approach. The search tree should be able to give feedback on which
strategy is best. The same strategies may also help improve the
random opponents, but that might require more care. It's easy to
introduce bias.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Oleg Barmin mailto:j2ee_desig...@mail.ru>> wrote:
Sure. It's open chinese poker:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker
Среда, 12 июня 2013, 20:57 +01:00 от Nick Wedd mailto:n...@maproom.co.uk>>:
On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote:
> > For quality assessment, play many games against one or
more reference
> opponents.
> It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against
humans. The
> game is young and there are no recognized masters at the
moment. So it's
> very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills.
>
> > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity,
rocks,
> paper, scissors type of stuff.
> The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you
need to select
> one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value
of your
> scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max
expectation
> value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation
value at the
> start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as
rocks,
> paper, scissors.
> At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and
> calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go
algorithms use the
> same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of
the game. But
> the first half is more important.
Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just
tell us its
name?
Nick
>
> Oleg
>
>
> Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 от Don Dailey
https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=dailey@gmail.com>>:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland
> https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=fotland@smart%2dgames.com>
> http://2dgames.com>>> wrote:
>
> For quality assessment, play many games against one or more
> reference opponents.
>
>
> Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect
information such
> as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious
> intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> __ __
>
> David
>
> __ __
>
> *From:*computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org
<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=%2acomputer%2dgo%2dboun...@dvandva.org>
> https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dboun...@dvandva.org>>
> [mailto:computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org
<https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=computer%2dgo%2dboun...@dvandva.org>
> https://e.mail.ru/sentmsg?compose&To=sentmsg%3fmailto%3dmailto%253acomputer%252dgo%252dboun...@dvandva.org>>]
> *On Behalf Of *Oleg Barmin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:02 AM
> *To:* computer-go@dvand
Re: [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment
On 12/06/2013 21:06, Oleg Barmin wrote: Sure. It's open chinese poker: http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-rules-chinese-poker Thank you. Also here: http://www.pagat.com/partition/pusoy.html#openface Nick Среда, 12 июня 2013, 20:57 +01:00 от Nick Wedd : On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote: > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more reference > opponents. > It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against humans. The > game is young and there are no recognized masters at the moment. So it's > very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills. > > > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks, > paper, scissors type of stuff. > The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you need to select > one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value of your > scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max expectation > value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation value at the > start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as rocks, > paper, scissors. > At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and > calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go algorithms use the > same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of the game. But > the first half is more important. Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just tell us its name? Nick > > Oleg > > > Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 от Don Dailey >: > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland > > > wrote: > > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more > reference opponents. > > > Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect information such > as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious > intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff. > > Don > > > > > __ __ > > David > > __ __ > > *From:*computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org > > > [mailto:computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org > >] > *On Behalf Of *Oleg Barmin > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:02 AM > *To:* computer-go@dvandva.org > > > *Subject:* [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment > > __ __ > > Hi, everybody, > > I am working at the development of a cards game algorithm using > MCTS. Technically, the game model is expect minmax tree search, > where direct search takes up too much time, that is why I > decided to use MCTS. > > The issue of using MCST, like any other approximation algorithm > is its quality assessment. I am developing an algorithm for a > game where no recognized masters exist. How do you think, guys, > if for instance Go (or Amazons) provided no way to assess an > algorithm playing with professional gamers (or other programs), > how would you assets its quality? > > My second question: I have not yet learned Go in and out, > however in my opinion, any search of a next step should identify > a number of options with similar or even the same assessment. > How do you resolve this issue? > > > Best regards, > Oleg Barmin. > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@dvandva.org > > > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > Best regards, > Oleg Barmin. > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@dvandva.org > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Best regards, Oleg Barmin. -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment
On 12/06/2013 20:33, Oleg Barmin wrote: > For quality assessment, play many games against one or more reference opponents. It's difficult to assament algorithm with a game against humans. The game is young and there are no recognized masters at the moment. So it's very hard to find human-opponent with a really good game skills. > With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff. The aim of this game is to max your scores. Each turn you need to select one of three choices. Each choice has an expectation value of your scores. Optimal strategy here is to select a choice with max expectation value. But it will take a years to calculate an expectation value at the start of the game. So the game has no such intransitivity as rocks, paper, scissors. At the last turns we can make a complete choice enumeration and calculate an exact scores expectation value ( does go algorithms use the same technique? ) . It's not the way for the first half of the game. But the first half is more important. Can you give a link to the rules of this game? Or even just tell us its name? Nick Oleg Среда, 12 июня 2013, 14:24 -04:00 от Don Dailey : On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, David Fotland > wrote: For quality assessment, play many games against one or more reference opponents. Especially for a game that is not a game of perfect information such as go or chess. With card games you can get some serious intransitivity, rocks, paper, scissors type of stuff. Don __ __ David __ __ *From:*computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org [mailto:computer-go-boun...@dvandva.org ] *On Behalf Of *Oleg Barmin *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:02 AM *To:* computer-go@dvandva.org *Subject:* [Computer-go] algorithm quality assessment __ __ Hi, everybody, I am working at the development of a cards game algorithm using MCTS. Technically, the game model is expect minmax tree search, where direct search takes up too much time, that is why I decided to use MCTS. The issue of using MCST, like any other approximation algorithm is its quality assessment. I am developing an algorithm for a game where no recognized masters exist. How do you think, guys, if for instance Go (or Amazons) provided no way to assess an algorithm playing with professional gamers (or other programs), how would you assets its quality? My second question: I have not yet learned Go in and out, however in my opinion, any search of a next step should identify a number of options with similar or even the same assessment. How do you resolve this issue? Best regards, Oleg Barmin. ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Best regards, Oleg Barmin. ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen, winner of yesterday's 9x9 KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/93/index.html As usual, I will be grateful if you send me your comments and point out my mistakes, either on this mailing list or by private email. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen, winner of yesterday's 9x9 KGS bot tournament! My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/93/index.html As usual, I will be grateful if you send me your comments and point out my mistakes, either on this mailing list or by private email. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Question on 0.5-wins
On 03/06/2013 14:14, Stefan Kaitschick wrote: My original question was meant for non-resigning bots. The observation: Also a losing bot starts to play lazy towards the end. And the question is: To which results do laziness of the winning bot AND laziness of the losing bot together lead typically? Ingo. A losing bot is never lazy. It can get despondent though. :-) The most interesting result is that a slight bonus on higher margins can improve the success rate, even though it might slightly reduce the bots internal winrate. I would venture the hypothesis, that increasing the margin from 0.5 to 1.5 is worth the greatest winrate "investment" by far. Messing up the final ko is always a possibility. Assuming Chinese rules: The only way to increase the margin by one point is to create or remove an odd seki from the board. Winning a ko instead of losing it will increase the winning margin by two points. Nick Stefan ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] June KGS bot tournament: 9x9
Reminder - it's tomorrow. I would like to see some more strong entrants soon. Nick On 25/05/2013 18:01, Nick Wedd wrote: The June KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday June 2nd, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 15:00 UTC. It will have 21 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime. The komi will be 7. This is a whole number, so jigo is a possible result. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=809 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] June KGS bot tournament: 9x9
The June KGS bot tournament will be held on Sunday June 2nd, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 15:00 UTC. It will have 21 rounds, Swiss, with 9x9 boards. The time limits will be 9 minutes each plus very fast Canadian overtime. The komi will be 7. This is a whole number, so jigo is a possible result. There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=809 . Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] EXTENDED Full Paper Submission : TelSaTech 2013 - Advanced Science Letters Journal
On 17/05/2013 20:22, Mark Boon wrote: More plugs disguised as an apology. Very clever :) I vote in favor of kicking these guys off the list. Mark Agreed. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
Congratulations to Zen19S, which won yesterday's KGS 19x19 bot tournament with a perfect score of 12 wins from 12 games! My report is at at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/92/index.html I have not made any comments on any of the games, but it still possible that I have made errors somewhere, so I hope you will report them to me as usual. Nick -- Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@dvandva.org http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
