Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
File Metadata is a wonderful thing but it seems to me unless you are using it yourself for yourself, like professional photogs do, it opens opens up a whole indexing discipline can of worms. Wouldn't metadata indexing work spottily unless you have put a LOT of professional caliber design planning into it before you start and then execute it throughout the database's lifespan with consistency? Classical filing by location, filename or date, automatically imposes a simple system and discipline to the project from the start. It seems to me that people .. run of the mill employees, volunteers etc are more likely to understand and perform, file naming and folder distribution than they are to reliably and uniformly tag files. One has to do that to accomplish anything but you can put one badly thought out tag on a file, call it done and it will be next to useless for retrieval purposes. ? db Tony B wrote: Ya, but often the fields are different. i.e., You want to describe that photo as Uncle George, Atlantic City, July 2008, Aunt Mary, Casino, Beach, vacations. What field are you going to put these in so that ALL your apps will read and can use the data? And how many of your apps will pass that data to the right place if the file is converted from a .jpg to a .png? Or .tif? Heck, many apps just strip all the metadata during simple picture manipulations and don't even tell you! I know you hate it, I do too frankly, but if MS gets behind it then it _will_ become some sort of standard. Until then, it's next to useless. On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:45 PM, t.piwowart...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Tony B wrote: We've discussed this before on the list. The new WinFS file system was supposed to be implemented with Vista and would have used metadata in files to sort them. Yes, M$ dropped the ball, but you don't need WinFS to do metadata. Metadata is defined in the specs for JPEG and TIFF files and probably others too. Seems to me that a photo management program would be able to manage scanned docs just as well. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 21, 2009, at 12:52 PM, db wrote: File Metadata is a wonderful thing but it seems to me unless you are using it yourself for yourself, like professional photogs do, it opens opens up a whole indexing discipline can of worms. Classical filing by location, filename or date, automatically imposes a simple system and discipline to the project from the start. It seems to me that people .. run of the mill employees, volunteers etc are more likely to understand and perform, file naming and folder distribution than they are to reliably and uniformly tag files. Things things you list are tags. In some systems many of these can even be applied automatically. Additional tags may or may not make a mess. Some people name their folders poorly and scatter them in various locations on their hard drive, server, cloud etc. I don't see how tags would be any worse. They could potentially be better because they would work even it situations where the folder organization was a mess. The most important tags are often about the people in the photos. It is interesting that Apple added face recognition to iPhoto to do precisely that. For a version 1.0 product it ain't bad. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 20, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Tony B wrote: I know you hate it, I do too frankly, but if MS gets behind it then it _will_ become some sort of standard. Until then, it's next to useless. Your faith in the Supreme Ayatollah is touching. I have not seen any evidence that M$ has any particular expertise in this. Well defined tagging already exists and is commonly used. We really don't need a johnny-come-lately messing things up. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 20, 2009, at 12:50 AM, Constance Warner wrote: By contrast, the computerized fax-on-demand service, which I DID supervise: I used a FileMaker Pro database; the paper documents were classified and entered into the database before anything was scanned. I always knew where to find any type or category of document--or any particular title--and the members did too. I am a big fan of FileMaker. However, I'm thinking that there are newer, better ways to do it. If you embed metadata in each file you can have all the database-like fields stored with the document. This eliminates database maintenance and coordination issues entirely. I think this would be a significant management advantage. Then all you need is a document reader that can search and filter on the metadata. There are bunches of free/inexpensive applications aimed at photographers that do this. The OS X Finder is also steadily getting better at accessing files based on metadata. I don't know how far along M$ has come. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
What is metadata? Where can I find out more about it? Thanks Steve t.piwowar wrote: If you embed metadata in each file you can have all the database-like fields stored with the document. This eliminates database maintenance and coordination issues entirely. I think this would be a significant management advantage. Then all you need is a document reader that can search and filter on the metadata. There are bunches of free/inexpensive applications aimed at photographers that do this. The OS X Finder is also steadily getting better at accessing files based on metadata. I don't know how far along M$ has come. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
What are good tools for imbedding metadata in files that would not otherwise have such? On Jun 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, t.piwowar wrote: If you embed metadata in each file * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Google it... wikipedia will have an good description Stephen Brownfield wrote: What is metadata? Where can I find out more about it? Thanks Steve t.piwowar wrote: If you embed metadata in each file you can have all the database-like fields stored with the document. This eliminates database maintenance and coordination issues entirely. I think this would be a significant management advantage. Then all you need is a document reader that can search and filter on the metadata. There are bunches of free/inexpensive applications aimed at photographers that do this. The OS X Finder is also steadily getting better at accessing files based on metadata. I don't know how far along M$ has come. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 20, 2009, at 12:17 PM, db wrote: Google it... wikipedia will have an good description Thanks, I did not want to be the meanie to say that. Please folks, do some basic research first and bring the interesting questions here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
We've discussed this before on the list. The new WinFS file system was supposed to be implemented with Vista and would have used metadata in files to sort them. The old idea of a hard drive with folders within folders within subfolders would no longer be necessary. Store all your files in root, but view them by using metadata filters. Sounds cool to me, but MS has no plans to introduce it anytime soon. It isn't in Win7 either AFAIK. On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Matthew Taylortaylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote: What are good tools for imbedding metadata in files that would not otherwise have such? On Jun 20, 2009, at 11:24 AM, t.piwowar wrote: If you embed metadata in each file * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Tony B wrote: We've discussed this before on the list. The new WinFS file system was supposed to be implemented with Vista and would have used metadata in files to sort them. Yes, M$ dropped the ball, but you don't need WinFS to do metadata. Metadata is defined in the specs for JPEG and TIFF files and probably others too. Seems to me that a photo management program would be able to manage scanned docs just as well. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Ya, but often the fields are different. i.e., You want to describe that photo as Uncle George, Atlantic City, July 2008, Aunt Mary, Casino, Beach, vacations. What field are you going to put these in so that ALL your apps will read and can use the data? And how many of your apps will pass that data to the right place if the file is converted from a .jpg to a .png? Or .tif? Heck, many apps just strip all the metadata during simple picture manipulations and don't even tell you! I know you hate it, I do too frankly, but if MS gets behind it then it _will_ become some sort of standard. Until then, it's next to useless. On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:45 PM, t.piwowart...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 20, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Tony B wrote: We've discussed this before on the list. The new WinFS file system was supposed to be implemented with Vista and would have used metadata in files to sort them. Yes, M$ dropped the ball, but you don't need WinFS to do metadata. Metadata is defined in the specs for JPEG and TIFF files and probably others too. Seems to me that a photo management program would be able to manage scanned docs just as well. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Has anyone used Base, the database program of Open Office? If so, what did you think of it? What happened when you tried to use it? Any other database recommendations? For an acquaintance who's trying to organize a lot of documents to put on a website, I was going to recommend FileMaker Pro, which I've worked with for years and which can produce crash-proof databases. But it's kind of expensive. What do you think? --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
We've tried it. It worked good. But then, so did Zoho, and so does Google Docs. What actually forced us to keep using Office was envelope printing, which I could never quite get right in OO. I've never actually tried to put a bunch of documents online, so I can't speak with any experience. But I don't think Office can do it. If they just want to make a list to be manually copied somewhere, that could be done with virtually any app including notepad. If they're making a website, they should probably work with whatever the site is using (e.g. Wordpress). Actually, now I think about it, I do keep maybe a dozen important company documents online - I just used Dreamweaver to make a list. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Constance Warnercawar...@his.com wrote: Has anyone used Base, the database program of Open Office? If so, what did you think of it? What happened when you tried to use it? Any other database recommendations? For an acquaintance who's trying to organize a lot of documents to put on a website, I was going to recommend FileMaker Pro, which I've worked with for years and which can produce crash-proof databases. But it's kind of expensive. What do you think? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 19, 2009, at 2:15 AM, Constance Warner wrote: For an acquaintance who's trying to organize a lot of documents to put on a website, I was going to recommend FileMaker Pro, which I've worked with for years and which can produce crash-proof databases. But it's kind of expensive. What do you think? I'm confused. Are these documents or databases that are to be posted online? Flat files or relational model? The details make a big difference in software selection. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. So I was trying to offer them a few basic suggestions. FileMaker Pro would be nice for them to use to index their documents, because it's easy to use and, once it's set up properly, it's practically crash- proof. On the other hand, it's expensive. Base is free, but I've never used it (and neither has anybody else I know). Somebody else-- not me--will be doing the work for this nonprofit, but these are very nice people and I wanted to offer them a few signposts. They're really brilliant, politically; they just haven't had the time to get really computer savvy, or the money for the latest computers, webmasters, or IT workers. --Constance Warner On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jun 19, 2009, at 2:15 AM, Constance Warner wrote: For an acquaintance who's trying to organize a lot of documents to put on a website, I was going to recommend FileMaker Pro, which I've worked with for years and which can produce crash-proof databases. But it's kind of expensive. What do you think? I'm confused. Are these documents or databases that are to be posted online? Flat files or relational model? The details make a big difference in software selection. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
I have tried to use Open Office to mail merge to email... discovered it was not possible (as of 2008). I suspect there are other shortfalls in Open Office as well. Constance, If this is a paid consult, I would steer them towards the more expensive (but better supported and more reliable) products to help them achieve their mission and reflect better light on yourself. Saving them money is good, but only if you are SURE that it won't backfire on your reputation. - Brian - Original Message - From: Constance Warner cawar...@his.com Subject: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base? Has anyone used Base, the database program of Open Office? If so, what did you think of it? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Okay, so we have a whole honking *file cabinet* full of paper documents that need to be scanned and put online. This is not going to be an easy task. But you're skipping all the way to almost the end of the project and asking about databases. Long before you worry about a db you need to figure out how to scan the stuff. Most commercial scanners will come with some sort of document management app. I think. Monumental task, not for a database app at all. What you want is a sheet-fed scanner with document management software. I dunno, but here's a random link via a search for sheet fed document management: http://ask-leo.com/fujitsu_scansnap_a_fast_sheetfed_document_scanner.html On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Constance Warnercawar...@his.com wrote: It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. So I was trying to offer them a few basic suggestions. FileMaker Pro would be nice for them to use to index their documents, because it's easy to use and, once it's set up properly, it's practically crash-proof. On the other hand, it's expensive. Base is free, but I've never used it (and neither has anybody else I know). Somebody else--not me--will be doing the work for this nonprofit, but these are very nice people and I wanted to offer them a few signposts. They're really brilliant, politically; they just haven't had the time to get really computer savvy, or the money for the latest computers, webmasters, or IT workers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Constance, If I were them, I would scan all the docs as PDF files, then index them in a hyperlinked .xls file that serves as the index. It's simple to do, you can throw the whole directory up on a website behind a login and password, and with a reasonable scanner, they can do about a five drawer filecabinet a week. Further, if they choose to, they can bulk OCR them and make each page that's legible searchable. It's cheap and easy and I've done it with OpenOffice. - Original Message - From: Constance Warner cawar...@his.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base? It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. So I was trying to offer them a few basic suggestions. FileMaker Pro would be nice for them to use to index their documents, because it's easy to use and, once it's set up properly, it's practically crash- proof. On the other hand, it's expensive. Base is free, but I've never used it (and neither has anybody else I know). Somebody else-- not me--will be doing the work for this nonprofit, but these are very nice people and I wanted to offer them a few signposts. They're really brilliant, politically; they just haven't had the time to get really computer savvy, or the money for the latest computers, webmasters, or IT workers. --Constance Warner On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:49 AM, t.piwowar wrote: On Jun 19, 2009, at 2:15 AM, Constance Warner wrote: For an acquaintance who's trying to organize a lot of documents to put on a website, I was going to recommend FileMaker Pro, which I've worked with for years and which can produce crash-proof databases. But it's kind of expensive. What do you think? I'm confused. Are these documents or databases that are to be posted online? Flat files or relational model? The details make a big difference in software selection. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 19, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Constance Warner wrote: It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. This does not look to me like a job for a database. Step 1 would be digitizing all the documents. A huge job. So step zero is identifying a (hopefully small) subset that is most used. These would be scanned to PDF and possibly OCRed by Acrobat for searching. That's what summer interns are made for and this year those are easy to get. So Acrobat would be the big expense. They need to check with Stone Soup to see if they qualify for the non-profit price. The storage schema really depends of what their content looks like. A series of hierarchical folders may suffice. Storage using a tagging file system would probably be the best. There are $25 add-ons for OS X that support this. MS cancelled that promise for Vista. Also need to make sure that backups are up to snuff. I know of one association that moved years of documents online and then lost all their files. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
t.piwowar wrote: This does not look to me like a job for a database. Step 1 would be digitizing all the documents. . . . So Acrobat would be the big expense. They need to check with Stone Soup to see if they qualify for the non-profit price. Tom, Did you mean TechSoup I do recommend that they check with them (http://www.techsoup.org/) Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
On Jun 19, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Stephen Brownfield wrote: Did you mean TechSoup I do recommend that they check with them (http://www.techsoup.org/) Thanks Steve. Yes that was a brain cramp. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Somebody I know uses Open Source Alfresco document management with a commercial canon scanner. But there is a lot of techie setup and server overhead and sometimes paper and drawers are in certain ways just easier and cheaper. basically tech by itself ... a software program or a digital tool ... isn't an answer without the tech skills and overhead that set it up, do the training of users and maintain it thereafter. db Tony B wrote: Okay, so we have a whole honking *file cabinet* full of paper documents that need to be scanned and put online. This is not going to be an easy task. But you're skipping all the way to almost the end of the project and asking about databases. Long before you worry about a db you need to figure out how to scan the stuff. Most commercial scanners will come with some sort of document management app. I think. Monumental task, not for a database app at all. What you want is a sheet-fed scanner with document management software. I dunno, but here's a random link via a search for sheet fed document management: http://ask-leo.com/fujitsu_scansnap_a_fast_sheetfed_document_scanner.html On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Constance Warnercawar...@his.com wrote: It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. So I was trying to offer them a few basic suggestions. FileMaker Pro would be nice for them to use to index their documents, because it's easy to use and, once it's set up properly, it's practically crash-proof. On the other hand, it's expensive. Base is free, but I've never used it (and neither has anybody else I know). Somebody else--not me--will be doing the work for this nonprofit, but these are very nice people and I wanted to offer them a few signposts. They're really brilliant, politically; they just haven't had the time to get really computer savvy, or the money for the latest computers, webmasters, or IT workers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Databases: Open Office Base?
Thanks for the tip on the Fujitsu scanner--you can get a nice tray- feed scanner for a lot less than when I used a $3,000 Canon tray-feed scanner to to make tiffs for a fax-on-demand service. However, scanning is the EASY part. I've worked on--and supervised-- scanning projects and digital document archives before. A well- thought-out classification system, preferably embodied in an idiot- proof, robust database (planned BEFORE you start scanning) is a must. I say this from sad experience. The last such project I worked on had an Excel spreadsheet (in lieu of a real database) to keep track of the documents, with a vague classification system and minimal data in the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet was kind of an ad- hoc affair, altered whenever the supervisor decided that the project needed improvements. Result: the association members, who were supposed to log into the website to download the documents, couldn't find anything. They complained a lot before they just gave up on using the system entirely. Needless to say, I wasn't supervising THIS project. By contrast, the computerized fax-on-demand service, which I DID supervise: I used a FileMaker Pro database; the paper documents were classified and entered into the database before anything was scanned. I always knew where to find any type or category of document--or any particular title--and the members did too. And as for the nonprofit with the cabinet full of documents to be scanned: Im betting they have friends in other organizations with tray-feed scanners they can use, and interns to run them. These small political nonprofits tend to be cash-poor--which is why I'm hoping that Base will work for them--but they're connection-rich. --Constance Warner The previous system On Jun 19, 2009, at 4:35 PM, Tony B wrote: Okay, so we have a whole honking *file cabinet* full of paper documents that need to be scanned and put online. This is not going to be an easy task. But you're skipping all the way to almost the end of the project and asking about databases. Long before you worry about a db you need to figure out how to scan the stuff. Most commercial scanners will come with some sort of document management app. I think. Monumental task, not for a database app at all. What you want is a sheet-fed scanner with document management software. I dunno, but here's a random link via a search for sheet fed document management: http://ask-leo.com/ fujitsu_scansnap_a_fast_sheetfed_document_scanner.html On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Constance Warnercawar...@his.com wrote: It's like this: I was visiting the offices of a small nonprofit dedicated to promoting civic activism and getting out the vote. One of the staff members gestured towards a filing cabinet and some banker boxes and said, We'd like to get these [documents] organized and have a way to get these out to our field organizers when they want them and when we need to send them. They'd been using fax, U.S. mail, and hand carrying the documents in the past. Right now, most of the documents aren't even in electronic format. They have basic computers, of course, but neither they nor their field organizers can afford the latest electronic bells and whistles (no iPhones, for example). A lot of small nonprofits are like that. So I was trying to offer them a few basic suggestions. FileMaker Pro would be nice for them to use to index their documents, because it's easy to use and, once it's set up properly, it's practically crash-proof. On the other hand, it's expensive. Base is free, but I've never used it (and neither has anybody else I know). Somebody else--not me--will be doing the work for this nonprofit, but these are very nice people and I wanted to offer them a few signposts. They're really brilliant, politically; they just haven't had the time to get really computer savvy, or the money for the latest computers, webmasters, or IT workers. ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
