Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:12 AM, Eric S. Sande wrote: I know it's not a thing that liberals want to believe, but it costs real money to deploy that technology. Go ahead and vote for it, I know how to do it. But it is going to cost real money to implement on a wide scale. Last time I checked Google was not the government. Are you suggesting that those famous black helicopters are going to fan out from Washington to deliver gigabit to the people? Or are you just preparing an excuse in case Google delivers on its promise? If it is liberal to notice that corporate managers are holding the nation hostage while paying themselves huge salaries and bonuses then I'm happy to be a liberal. This corporate attitude is not unlike that of the Greek Communist labor unions who are currently striking to warn their government that they expect to be paid top dollar even as the Greek nation collapses under the financial burden. Should I call you a Communist apparatchik? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Eric S. Sande esa...@verizon.net wrote: You want private telecom to deliver universal broadband in the US, you are going to have to pay for it. My main complaint in this area is that there seems to be little money spent to refresh technology. The hardest part about Gigabit to the home is really getting fiber to the home. For Verizon to complain about how hard it will be to update their infrastructure to handle the increased traffic is a big load of cr*p. There is no reason for telecoms not to have kept up with technology at fairly low costs over time. We saw how the telecoms were complaining how much it costs to provide consumers with *the advertised bandwidth* (we thought they would only use 1% of it, so we could clearly pretend to offer a lot, sniff!). As so many have mentioned, if they put some of the profit to keep the infrastructure upgraded as technology improved, they would have higher profit today. But the executives who depend on stock price would have seen a tiny decrease in their compensation, maybe, so it didn't get done. Sad commentary. So now it is Boo hoo, we don't have multi-terabit optical switches anywhere, and it would cost us money to upgrade all at once just for consumers to get more bandwidth. Boo hoo, give us more money. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:29 AM, John DeCarlo wrote: So now it is Boo hoo, we don't have multi-terabit optical switches anywhere, and it would cost us money to upgrade all at once just for consumers to get more bandwidth. Boo hoo, give us more money. Interesting commentary at http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/02/googles-fiber-network-experiment-could-be-disruptive-/1 Some of the big telecoms may feel threatened by Google's attempts to control key parts of the Internet, says Day. Others may feel Google could help validate the hundreds of billions of dollars poured into installing fiber trunk lines. If there is a new generation of compelling applications that come out of this, he says, it could stimulate business for everyone. Several commentators have also noted that there is still a huge amount of dark fiber left over from the bursting of the Internet bubble a decade ago. Google could pick this up for a song and bypass recalcitrant incumbent carriers. Currently the telecoms are trying to hold the rest of the economy hostage. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Gee, you can't plan ahead *four hours* BTW, what is the resolution and time duration of this four-hour download? 760p? two hours? Who is your ISP? On Cox Cable in Annandale, VA I get 20 mbs if the server can provide it, i.e., on occasional downloads. Fred Holmes At 11:40 PM 2/10/2010, t.piwowar wrote: Today, suffering from cabin fever, I ordered up a video on demand from Amazon. It took close to 4 hours to trickle down the wires. At such a data rate I'm not likely to give the service much business. Google claims their network would have delivered this video in 5 minutes. That would make VOD quite appealing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
If you took all of the corporate bonuses and threw them in a pot, it would be minuscule in comparison with the deficits governments are running. While I have a problem when corporate managers get bonuses from failing companies, I have no problem with bonuses from successful companies. We do a better job of running industry in this country than anywhere else. At scale. A big factor is corporate management reward systems. The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. Fred Holmes At 10:47 AM 2/11/2010, tjpa wrote: If it is liberal to notice that corporate managers are holding the nation hostage while paying themselves huge salaries and bonuses then I'm happy to be a liberal. This corporate attitude is not unlike that of the Greek Communist labor unions who are currently striking to warn their government that they expect to be paid top dollar even as the Greek nation collapses under the financial burden. Should I call you a Communist apparatchik? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. Or, perhaps just more equally situated and hopefully happy, referred to as Communism in some circles. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
And the NeoCons spread BS and fear-mongering to keep us all ignorant and afraid of the liberals. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- If you took all of the corporate bonuses and threw them in a pot, it would be minuscule in comparison with the deficits governments are running. While I have a problem when corporate managers get bonuses from failing companies, I have no problem with bonuses from successful companies. We do a better job of running industry in this country than anywhere else. At scale. A big factor is corporate management reward systems. The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: Gee, you can't plan ahead *four hours* NO! When you click on a web link are you oaky with the page appearing 4 hours later? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: If you took all of the corporate bonuses and threw them in a pot, it would be minuscule in comparison with the deficits governments are running. Magicians call this technique misdirection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdirection_(magic) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. Like this... http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/11/france.quality.life/?hpt=T2 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 2:42 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Like this... http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/11/france.quality.life/?hpt=T2 It often surprises me that the Internet does not really seem to have done all that much to broaden how well a lot of people in the United States understand and view the rest of the world and how our nation fits into the mix. So much information is available, yet so many of the same and tired old myths and misperceptions abound. We are not the top dog in many areas that are commonly used to determine quality of life, yet so many in the United States continue to maintain that we are. Yet, these same people, a lot of them in influential positions and claiming to be experts, are quite computer literate and routinely ply the ether of the Internet. They must have very powerful filtering algorithms at work in their computers that prevent them from discovering what so many others can easily find and plainly see. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 3:38 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: We are not the top dog in many areas that are commonly used to determine quality of life, yet so many in the United States continue to maintain that we are. Well the robber barons don't care. They are sitting in their mansions counting the loot they stole from widows and orphans. Their supporters, who vote against their own interests, are so deeply brainwashed that they are oblivious to facts. If you try to clue them in they attack you with blind range. There is really nothing to do about it. They will never wise up. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
I don't give much credence to picks by judges. The judges generally give different weighting factors to the quality of life attributes. What's the relative emigration / immigration between the U.S. and France? Fred Holmes At 02:42 PM 2/11/2010, tjpa wrote: The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. Like this... http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/11/france.quality.life/?hpt=T2 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
It is not unprecedented. It exists in Japan, Korea, and other places I'm not going to look up. I'm not going to cite numbers on how small physically Japan and Korea are. Compared to the US. Finland is also building a national network. It has lots of empty spaces and more weather challenges for installers than in the US--including this week's eastern US blizzards. It could cost about the same or less per household in the US as in Finland if there are incentives to create a viable network. Google competition could help a lot with that. Maybe there could be an affordable gigabit network in the US, but not likely for a long time. The telecoms have been collecting fees for new networks. Perhaps the new networks should be owned by the public, as it is where it works, instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for private companies to expand the networks, often with assistance through public grants and tax breaks. Once the networks are created with public money, they could be maintained by private companies for the benefit of the public--as utilities. Private networks are welcomed to compete, however need to be prohibited from suing municipalities that plan to build their own networks for restraint of trade where the private companies refused to serve, as happened in Lafayette, Louisiana, in Ohio, Minnesota, North Carolina, and across the country; ex., http://is.gd/8bxiY. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
I don't know how to evaluate it, but it's often been said that the quality of life statistics are apples and oranges among different countries. The classic example is that most countries simply let preemies die, they don't try to save them. Since they die at birth, the are _not_ recorded as an infant mortality statistic. The U.S.'s infant mortality statistics are high because we do try to save preemies, but don't always succeed. Dunno if this is true, but I'll bet there are a lot of things like this. And, I'll bet most government cook these kinds of statistics. Fred Holmes At 03:38 PM 2/11/2010, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: It often surprises me that the Internet does not really seem to have done all that much to broaden how well a lot of people in the United States understand and view the rest of the world and how our nation fits into the mix. So much information is available, yet so many of the same and tired old myths and misperceptions abound. We are not the top dog in many areas that are commonly used to determine quality of life, yet so many in the United States continue to maintain that we are. Yet, these same people, a lot of them in influential positions and claiming to be experts, are quite computer literate and routinely ply the ether of the Internet. They must have very powerful filtering algorithms at work in their computers that prevent them from discovering what so many others can easily find and plainly see. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:51 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Perhaps the new networks should be owned by the public, as it is where it works, instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for private companies to expand the networks, often with assistance through public grants and tax breaks. Once the networks are created with public money, they could be maintained by private companies for the benefit of the public--as utilities. We all know about how far a suggestion such as this will go given the current political climate in the United States. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
I'm happy to have the republicans own their deficits, how long till both sides realize there is a third invisible party from both sides driving this up and up and now its just Obama at the helm now. On Feb 11, 2010 3:26 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: The liberals just want to make everyone equally miserable. Or, perhaps just more equally situated and hopefully happy, referred to as Communism in some ci... The communist label would be wrong, however. Socialism, as in Scandinavia, is a better description for liberal societies where people are happy with their gummints. The Republican deficits he complains about will go away when we can get the corporations out of our government. Fast networks for people will make businesses more profitable too. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 11, 2010, at 4:51 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: Finland is also building a national network. It has lots of empty spaces and more weather challenges for installers than in the US-- including this week's eastern US blizzards. It should be considered a strategic resource, much like the National Defense Highway System. Considering the likelihood of cyberattack it probably needs more protection than our roadways. Tell me how is the internet substantially different from the highway net? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
At 05:22 PM 2/11/2010, tjpa wrote: viz. previous comment on brainwashing. Why did you not bring up death panels? That's the surest way to keep costs down. The death panel is a Democratic Party concept. Only the name came from the Republicans. The Democrats had the concept buried in the Health Care bill in very obscure language, but they didn't succeed in hiding it from the public. The best way to keep costs down is to have the lifestyle police prevent everyone from doing anything at all risky, including eating too much and eating the wrong foods. Prohibit all red meat, all starches, . . . Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Fred Holmes wrote: The death panel is a Democratic Party concept. Only the name came from the Republicans. The Democrats had the concept buried in the Health Care bill in very obscure language, but they didn't succeed in hiding it from the public. Wow! Does _everyone_ wear those tinfoil hats on your planet? -- Vicky Staubly http://www.steeds.com/vicky/vi...@steeds.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Fred Holmes f...@his.com wrote: At 05:22 PM 2/11/2010, tjpa wrote: viz. previous comment on brainwashing. Why did you not bring up death panels? That's the surest way to keep costs down. The death panel is a Democratic Party concept. Only the name came from the Republicans. The Democrats had the concept buried in the Health Care bill in very obscure language, but they didn't succeed in hiding it from the public. Man, I almost snorted my drink through my nose. Either you have your tongue planted firmly in cheek, or you have had some sort of brain hemorrhage. You used to occasionally try to keep close to reality. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Perhaps the new networks should be owned by the public, as it is where it works, instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for private companies to expand the networks, often with assistance through public grants and tax breaks. Once the networks are created with public money, they could be maintained by private companies for the benefit of the public--as utilities. We all know about how far a suggestion such as this will go given the current political climate in the United States. Steve Too bad the evil US DoD invented ARPANET with OUR valuable tax dollars, and spent OUR money for so many years on a silly Defense project, then allowed that Brit Tim Berners-Lee at CERN [that evil place where they're looking for the God particle] to GIVE AWAY his WWW code for FREE--and have the nerve to start the W3C to make us follow their standards, not ours. Should have been corporate. Then we'd have nothing...or maybe the Swiss would own the Internet. That could be interesting [having worked for a Swiss company]. That might work better that it does now. I love/hate the Swiss, but they're never boring. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
At 06:48 PM 2/11/2010, John DeCarlo wrote: You used to occasionally try to keep close to reality. I'm getting to old to worry about that any more. Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Steve - You can't taste the food on the Internet. You can't appreciate the special French love of beauty and nature on the Internet. You can't feel the excitement of colors and scents at the weekly outdoor markets on the Internet. Most of all you can't appreciate the wonderful French sense of humor on the Internet. Doesn't matter if you don't speak French or whatever language is spoken in the country you're visiting, as long as you learn the basics--hello, goodbye, please, thank you, and a few more phrases--and use them politely, you'll be welcome almost anywhere in the world. Lots of people will gladly practice speaking English with you. And if not, you can have an amazing conversation by pointing to pictures on you cell phone or notebook, and haggle effectively with a calculator. But you have to go, as a traveler instead a tourist, not on a tour, without a group, and meet lots of people [even the charming gendarmes who were taking classes at our hotel near Perpignan]. After all, that's the best reason to travel--people [and shopping]. And you can keep in touch with friends and family using their very fast Internet and ubiquitous cellular networks while you're away from home. Most important, never let a lack of money keep you from traveling. Go! Now! I hear the weather in the Canary Islands is delightful this time of year--or maybe Brazil, Uruguay or Chile. Did I mention the food? All that delicious unprocessed non-GMO food? Betty Like this... http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/11/france.quality.life/?hpt=T2 It often surprises me that the Internet does not really seem to have done all that much to broaden how well a lot of people in the United States understand and view the rest of the world and how our nation fits into the mix. So much information is available, yet so many of the same and tired old myths and misperceptions abound. We are not the top dog in many areas that are commonly used to determine quality of life, yet so many in the United States continue to maintain that we are. Yet, these same people, a lot of them in influential positions and claiming to be experts, are quite computer literate and routinely ply the ether of the Internet. They must have very powerful filtering algorithms at work in their computers that prevent them from discovering what so many others can easily find and plainly see. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
I guess the hope is that this will get incumbent providers off their rears. http://www.pcworld.com/article/189066/googles_ultrafast_broadband_questions_and_answers.html Google, you see, has just announced plans to build a series of uberfast broadband networks in cities across America. The Google broadband service would bring speeds up to a hundred times faster than what we currently use, the crew from Mountain View says, and it'd all be delivered directly to our homes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
We have a new provider coming to town who promises speeds of 13mps. Stewart At 05:38 PM 2/10/2010, you wrote: I guess the hope is that this will get incumbent providers off their rears. http://www.pcworld.com/article/189066/googles_ultrafast_broadband_questions_and_answers.html Google, you see, has just announced plans to build a series of uberfast broadband networks in cities across America. The Google broadband service would bring speeds up to a hundred times faster than what we currently use, the crew from Mountain View says, and it'd all be delivered directly to our homes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
I guess the hope is that this will get incumbent providers off their rears. If you pay for it I will build it. I can all ready do what they are describing, and do. For the paying customers. I'm disinclined to bankrupt myself under any circumstances. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Only if you have the infrastructure. The local phone provider has told me he cannot get my DSL over 4 mps due to the trunk line being the size it is. Present local cable can get it to 10mps. New cable provider is telling me they can do 13mps. That means either the phone company has to rebuild their system (which I doubt) or they will be a bit player in town. Stewart At 06:34 PM 2/10/2010, you wrote: If you pay for it I will build it. I can all ready do what they are describing, and do. For the paying customers. I'm disinclined to bankrupt myself under any circumstances. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Only if you have the infrastructure. Actually my model is to build it on demand, in the gigabit arena. In other words build to order. I can't do it any other way. It's not inexpensive. FiOs alone is a hugh investment. But we feel it's worthwhile in high density areas. If you want gigabit speeds elsewhere, you'll pay the construction costs. Yes I can do it. But I can't afford to do it on an affordable basis to EVERYWHERE. If Google can afford the investment then they'd be well advised to partner with my engineering and construction people. They are the experts. I agree that the infrastructure has to be built. But what Google is saying is like saying that interstate highways or railroads are desirable without actually consulting people whose business it is to build them. This kind of action costs money. Big, serious money. Maybe Google has it. I don't know. But right now I don't. I AM rebuilding my system. But the scale they propose is unprecedented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Surprisingly there are FIOS cable running in some very rural areas. When I lived in WI Williams (now just a Gas company) laid a FIOS cable for telephone service from one end of WI to the other (E-W) along a rural Highway as they got a good price on the right of way. Imagine an Internet Provider who bought access, and taped into that line to offer service? The new cable provider who has come into town has laid fiber from their cable heads to town to provide service. They are putting a lot of money into the system in hopes of striking it big. Of course they probably will. I already told you about our phone service, but our main cable provider is Charter and they are not putting any money into the local cable system. We have no DVR, VOIP, HD or any extras except for movie channels. I expect the new provider to offer all this (They already offered it to my church, but we are under contract right now) at an attractive price. Stewart At 07:23 PM 2/10/2010, you wrote: Only if you have the infrastructure. Actually my model is to build it on demand, in the gigabit arena. In other words build to order. I can't do it any other way. It's not inexpensive. FiOs alone is a hugh investment. But we feel it's worthwhile in high density areas. If you want gigabit speeds elsewhere, you'll pay the construction costs. Yes I can do it. But I can't afford to do it on an affordable basis to EVERYWHERE. If Google can afford the investment then they'd be well advised to partner with my engineering and construction people. They are the experts. I agree that the infrastructure has to be built. But what Google is saying is like saying that interstate highways or railroads are desirable without actually consulting people whose business it is to build them. This kind of action costs money. Big, serious money. Maybe Google has it. I don't know. But right now I don't. I AM rebuilding my system. But the scale they propose is unprecedented. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Imagine an Internet Provider who bought access, and taped into that line to offer service? That opens up a can o' worms. The FCC says I HAVE to open the copper network, which I built BTW, to alternative providers. Part of the motivation to build a separate data network not subject to those regs. What's the Google take on that? I mean, if I build and maintain the network should I not own it? Oh yes, if Google builds a network they should own it. The cable providers do, with theirs. Whatever the final decision, the stakes remain: Who owns the highway? The Feds can say that the people own the highway, but that isn't an actual fact with things that people built, like the railroads and the cable network. Those are privately owned. The copper telephone network was legislated into public ownership. Too bad, it was very effective and still is as a utility. But I have no motivation to maintain it in the absence of profit. Only regulation keeps it going. If I build a new thing, a new highway if you will, what guarantees do I have that IT isn't going to be regulated into another commodity? None whatsoever. Google wants bandwidth. They'd like to do it as expeditiously as possible. And they'd like my engineers to build it for them at cut rate prices under government sanction. I'd tend to resist that business model. Only because I have responsibilities to MY stockholders. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
Notice that I said bought access. They are building highways now with private contractors. Toll roads. Stewart That opens up a can o' worms. The FCC says I HAVE to open the copper network, which I built BTW, to alternative providers. Part of the motivation to build a separate data network not subject to those regs. What's the Google take on that? I mean, if I build and maintain the network should I not own it? Oh yes, if Google builds a network they should own it. The cable providers do, with theirs. Whatever the final decision, the stakes remain: Who owns the highway? The Feds can say that the people own the highway, but that isn't an actual fact with things that people built, like the railroads and the cable network. Those are privately owned. The copper telephone network was legislated into public ownership. Too bad, it was very effective and still is as a utility. But I have no motivation to maintain it in the absence of profit. Only regulation keeps it going. If I build a new thing, a new highway if you will, what guarantees do I have that IT isn't going to be regulated into another commodity? None whatsoever. Google wants bandwidth. They'd like to do it as expeditiously as possible. And they'd like my engineers to build it for them at cut rate prices under government sanction. I'd tend to resist that business model. Only because I have responsibilities to MY stockholders. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
They are building highways now with private contractors. Toll roads. Yes. But if I charge my costs off to these contactors at full rate I still won't recover my build expense. I mean I use contractors. If I used line personnel it would be prohibitive. Yes I rely on the tolls to recover the costs. But I still can't realize a profit without a reasonable timeline. If I sold only the access I'd be in a negative situation. That's what Google wants me to do. But I can't do that. Like I do with the copper. That's a money drain. I have to offer value added services in order to leverage my network. I never went to business school. But I figure if I have more money going out than I have coming in that's bad. And I'm not exactly paying for cut-rate talent. My core people are the best professionals that money can buy. That's an expense that's worth the dollars. It's why we're the best at what we do. Oh, yeah, we're more expensive. But we also have an amazingly high reliability rate. I mean we are Bell Telephone. Or what used to be Bell Telephone. None of the standards have been relaxed. I guess we're sort of nonplussed and taken aback when it is assumed that we'll take on a mission that someone else (like Google) has arbitrarily defined without funding or a plan. It is easy to say that something should be done but less easy to describe how it could be done. But we are experts at how it can be done. We didn't build the greatest telecommunications network in the world without our professionals and our research labs and our manufacturing capacity. It can be done again. All of the talent and resources are in place. Maybe we should think about doing that again instead of rescuing banks and car manufacturers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:23 PM, Eric S. Sande wrote: I AM rebuilding my system. But the scale they propose is unprecedented. It is not unprecedented. It exists in Japan, Korea, and other places I'm not going to look up. Today, suffering from cabin fever, I ordered up a video on demand from Amazon. It took close to 4 hours to trickle down the wires. At such a data rate I'm not likely to give the service much business. Google claims their network would have delivered this video in 5 minutes. That would make VOD quite appealing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Gigabit Broadband To Your House?
It is not unprecedented. It exists in Japan, Korea, and other places I'm not going to look up. I'm not going to cite numbers on how small physically Japan and Korea are. Compared to the US. I won't say how much their governments pay towards supporting telecom. I'll say that it's apples and oranges. You want private telecom to deliver universal broadband in the US, you are going to have to pay for it. One way or another. That's your choice as a taxpayer and a voter. If you fund me, I can deliver the technology. I know it's not a thing that liberals want to believe, but it costs real money to deploy that technology. Go ahead and vote for it, I know how to do it. But it is going to cost real money to implement on a wide scale. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
