Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Try reading the thread again, have someone sound out the big words for you, get back to us when you figure out what is going on. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:21 AM, tjpa wrote: > On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:06 AM, mike wrote: > >> I read fine, Mark. I don't think you fully understand the subject. You >> are >> talking about component feature sizes..fine, take to another thread, >> > > This thread is only for those who agree with Mike or so says Mike. > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:06 AM, mike wrote: I read fine, Mark. I don't think you fully understand the subject. You are talking about component feature sizes..fine, take to another thread, This thread is only for those who agree with Mike or so says Mike. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: > Excuse me but XLR connectors are still the standard for sound systems and > sound work. Wireless sucks! often has problems interference etc. Doesn't have the audio frequency range either. Okay for some live stage work, but for studio? Nah, not at all. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:15 PM, mike wrote: > So how do I connect my blu ray and media center to my hd tv if not hdmi or > component? Tom's just being dogmatic. He mentioned wireless one time, so now he's gotta stick with it no matter what. There's nothing wrong with wires and cables. They are, to a great degree, what makes the world go 'round. I love 'em. Got boxes of XLRs and coax and general hook-up stuff. Cables are reliable as s***. Wireless is flaky by comparison. Just ask any cell phone user. I'll run CAT5 from my router any day as opposed to wirelessly. Sometimes you don't or may not want to use a hardwired connection. So, go wireless then, but there is usually a price to be paid. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:34 PM, tjpa wrote: > I'm sure that if you shop around you will find receivers the size of a > walkman or maybe smaller. And it it has an amplifier, implicit in a receiver, it'll have about 5 watts RMS total audio output...maybe. Speaking of small devices, in the last two days two friends of mine lost their cell phones. Apparently, lost cell phones represent a very large percentage of why new cell phones are bought. Small has its disadvantages, but not for manufacturers. Perhaps some day a manufacturer will provide a little attachment on their phones so that a retractable tether can be used to ensure that the phone does not get lost. However, I doubt that would enhance a phone makers bottom line, useful though it could be. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
So how do I connect my blu ray and media center to my hd tv if not hdmi or component? On Feb 2, 2010 12:12 PM, "tjpa" wrote: On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:16 AM, mike wrote: > > Even if you did, it's kinda hard to have 3 HDMI ports, ... There you go again. Clinging to all those cables. I'm surprised you are not demanding a row of XLR connectors too. And a big red crank on the side. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Excuse me but XLR connectors are still the standard for sound systems and sound work. Wireless sucks! often has problems interference etc. Sorry. Stewart At 01:00 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote: On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:16 AM, mike wrote: Even if you did, it's kinda hard to have 3 HDMI ports, a couple of SPDIF ports, RCA jacks, 2 or 3 sets of component jacks all on something that small also. Having to interface with that back panel on home systems forces a certain size on the unit also. There you go again. Clinging to all those cables. I'm surprised you are not demanding a row of XLR connectors too. And a big red crank on the side. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:16 AM, mike wrote: Even if you did, it's kinda hard to have 3 HDMI ports, a couple of SPDIF ports, RCA jacks, 2 or 3 sets of component jacks all on something that small also. Having to interface with that back panel on home systems forces a certain size on the unit also. There you go again. Clinging to all those cables. I'm surprised you are not demanding a row of XLR connectors too. And a big red crank on the side. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 2, 2010, at 10:14 AM, mike wrote: Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? We aren't talking about circuit boards, we are talking about electronics you will have to handle and move etc. Home receivers should be the size of a walkman by now but aren't. Some are and some are not. The ones that come in big boxes are that size because people stack them up. The inside of these boxes is mostly empty space. People are shopping for something they can add to or replace in an existing stack. So we are really talking furniture here, not technology. My 20-year-old receiver is 2-inches high and 10-inches across. My newer DVD player is about that size too. I'm sure that if you shop around you will find receivers the size of a walkman or maybe smaller. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
One of those later SNL skits had the Will Ferrell character come out with a big 80s style cell phone, and when teased about it by the "girls", insisted that " 'big' is the new 'small' ". Insert your own iPad jokes here. As to why the micro SIM has to be smaller than the mini SIM, if it is to be backwards compatible but physically distinguishable and not forwards compatible from the mini SIM, then the pin end has to have the same pin placement, and the width, thickness, and placement of the locking notches on the sides have to be the same or close as well, so a shorter length is pretty much the only option. Generally speaking, you want the working part of your electronics (as opposed to the part you regularly interface with) to do more in less space, too. On Feb 2, 2010, at 12:00 AM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote: > From:b_s-wilk > Subject: Re: New SIM, but improved? > >> Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets >> smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key >> internal parts get smaller too? > > Back to SNL-- Remember their skit about the shrinking Nano? That was a > joke when the Nano 'improved' and became microscopic. The shrinking SIM > is a bad joke too. And there's NO reason to make the new technology > smaller than the old one, especially since the US device is exactly > 7.24187928741 times larger than my smart phone. Logically, according to > Tom, the SIM should also be 7.24187928741 times larger in the iPad > compared to my phone. > > When I worked at a newspaper designing and typesetting ads, there was a > rule that you don't use any text smaller than 5 point type. Anything > smaller than that was considered illegible, and only suitable for > disclaimers on car ads. Now the rules are that there are no rules. > Medicine has important warnings in 3 point type--for old people, yet. > Legal documents got so bad that there had to be legislation to make it > legible and in plain English. > > Smaller isn't necessarily better, otherwise the iPad wouldn't be larger > that many netbooks and tablets. So what's with this nonsense of > defending SIM cards that are too small to insert or remove without > dropping them like a contact lens that you can't find in a pile rug. My > brother rides a unicycle, but uses his bicycle most of the time because > smaller isn't necessarily better. Do you drive a microcar like a Ligier > or Aixam? > > Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...]
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/ipad-mini-sim/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Ftechbiz+%28Wired%3A+Tech+Biz%29 On Feb 2, 2010 9:55 AM, "Reid Katan" wrote: Quoting mike : > Tmo US or overseas? I just read an article today that said the ... Dude. You got to give as good as you expect. Got Link? * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
I only replied when it was apparent that the technology assertions were incorrect. Talk anything you want about SIM cards, but when you make false assertions about technology, I may respond. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- I read fine, Mark. I don't think you fully understand the subject. You are talking about component feature sizes..fine, take to another thread, if you are going to include it in this one, it has to be assumed you are talking about sim cards. You should be more clear what you are talking about if you are going to change the area the thread is discussing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Okay. If you're using multiple SIMs that are small, I would suggest a container system to prevent losing them. As their density increases, is it logical to expect you to use fewer of them, change them out less often? I have a multi-SIM--a card that holds data for more than one network. It doesn't work very well. I have it because it came free with a SIM card reader/cloner that I got to back up the SIM card [all data, including network info, not just the addresses and photos that can be transferred via Bluetooth. An improved version that's more reliable can replace the need to switch physical SIM cards, but the software needs a lot of work. Also, you still have to remove the card to clone a new SIM, using a computer--not easy to do while traveling. If you could do this wirelessly on an encrypted network at the provider's shop or simply from a local tower, then SIM card size won't matter. Container system - what happens when I drop my card between the floorboards of the convenience store when I buy the second card, before I can get it into a container? After all, my hands are full of greasy munchies and drinks, and I'm in a hurry to catch a train. The smaller the card, the more likely it is to be lost before putting it into a container. OK, I'm more careful than that. I've left the card in my phone under the battery, but not in the slot when using another card, but I have to be careful that it doesn't drop when I pop out the battery to change cards. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...]
Quoting mike : Tmo US or overseas? I just read an article today that said the micro sim was not in use anywhere in the US. Dude. You got to give as good as you expect. Got Link? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Points well-taken, Mark, and I don't for a moment think that own particular usage will carry the day in the general market. I deal with people in multiple countries, and all have finite resources. In addition to the courtesy of having local phone numbers, I also allow my associates the economy of not having to make international calls & texts. There are times when I have to change cards, on crossing a frontier. Storage of the current SIM configuration has not been a problem. --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: From: Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) Subject: Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@listserv.aol.com Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 9:55 AM Okay. If you're using multiple SIMs that are small, I would suggest a container system to prevent losing them. As their density increases, is it logical to expect you to use fewer of them, change them out less often? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Mark, I would posit that a sim card, while obviously a component, also straddles the line into device, in that, for some of us, it's a frequently moved accessory. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Steve, I was addressing components; you are addressing consumer devices. Increasing component density translates into increasing performance, reliability or capacity/capability (depending on what the engineers focus on). It allows things that were stationary to become faster, mobile or just cheaper. The user interface is an entirely different issue. You are addressing that issue. The confusion here is that the size of interchangeable SIM cards is a significant part of both the user interface as well as device hardware. In the US you might not notice, but elsewhere it's important to have an easy way to switch networks quickly without losing SIM cards. This is where the argument about component size vs. device size is faulty. Perhaps you don't switch SIM cards, but plenty of other people do--enough to make the size of the new card important. The real issue is bad design. The chip can be smaller and contain more data, while the card it's attached to should be easier to handle, until a better way of quickly switching networks is developed. The new higher density card could be designed to "talk" to the new network and negotiate a switch digitally rather than by switching cards. Then a new billing method will be needed to replace purchasing a new SIM at each location. You buy things on the Internet, sometimes on your phone, why not prepay the use of a new network that way? Mark, have you ever needed to switch networks at frontiers? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Even if you did, it's kinda hard to have 3 HDMI ports, a couple of SPDIF ports, RCA jacks, 2 or 3 sets of component jacks all on something that small also. Having to interface with that back panel on home systems forces a certain size on the unit also. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:08 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, mike wrote: > > > Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? > > As in stereo receivers? You are not going to get 100 watts out of > something the size of a pack of cigarettes. > > Steve > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, mike wrote: > Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? As in stereo receivers? You are not going to get 100 watts out of something the size of a pack of cigarettes. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
I read fine, Mark. I don't think you fully understand the subject. You are talking about component feature sizes..fine, take to another thread, if you are going to include it in this one, it has to be assumed you are talking about sim cards. You should be more clear what you are talking about if you are going to change the area the thread is discussing. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > I said component feature-sizes/density and formats, not consumer > devices. > > Radios can be as small as you want them; folks trying to do surveillance > find that convenient. Your Bluetooth headset broadcasts to your cell > phone... but I was *_not_* commenting on the size of consumer devices. > > Please read with more care before you reply. > > Thank you, > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? We aren't > talking about circuit boards, we are talking about electronics you will > have > to handle and move etc. Home receivers should be the size of a walkman > by > now but aren't. I'm reminded of the scene in Zoolander where he pulls > out > his cell phone and it's the size of a jelly bean, he can't even dial it. > Some things, their size is also dependent on their use. If human beings > have to interact with an object, it must be of some basic size...this > seems > obvious. I don't want to have to get out tweezers and a microscope > whenever > I want to do something with my modern electronics. > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) > > wrote: > > > Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more > > features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component > > decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is > > obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad > > thing. > > > > Thank you, > > Mark Snyder > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:42 AM, George Carr wrote: > Yes, TVs are getting larger in two dimensions, but they are also getting > thinner and lighter. The new LED displays are super thin. True. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
I said component feature-sizes/density and formats, not consumer devices. Radios can be as small as you want them; folks trying to do surveillance find that convenient. Your Bluetooth headset broadcasts to your cell phone... but I was *_not_* commenting on the size of consumer devices. Please read with more care before you reply. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? We aren't talking about circuit boards, we are talking about electronics you will have to handle and move etc. Home receivers should be the size of a walkman by now but aren't. I'm reminded of the scene in Zoolander where he pulls out his cell phone and it's the size of a jelly bean, he can't even dial it. Some things, their size is also dependent on their use. If human beings have to interact with an object, it must be of some basic size...this seems obvious. I don't want to have to get out tweezers and a microscope whenever I want to do something with my modern electronics. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more > features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component > decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is > obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad > thing. > > Thank you, > Mark Snyder * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Mark, given you statement, why aren't home receivers smaller? We aren't talking about circuit boards, we are talking about electronics you will have to handle and move etc. Home receivers should be the size of a walkman by now but aren't. I'm reminded of the scene in Zoolander where he pulls out his cell phone and it's the size of a jelly bean, he can't even dial it. Some things, their size is also dependent on their use. If human beings have to interact with an object, it must be of some basic size...this seems obvious. I don't want to have to get out tweezers and a microscope whenever I want to do something with my modern electronics. On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more > features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component > decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is > obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad > thing. > > Thank you, > Mark Snyder > -Original Message- > Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic > gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this > process key internal parts get smaller too? > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Okay. If you're using multiple SIMs that are small, I would suggest a container system to prevent losing them. As their density increases, is it logical to expect you to use fewer of them, change them out less often? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Mark, I would posit that a sim card, while obviously a component, also straddles the line into device, in that, for some of us, it's a frequently moved accessory. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
> I have noticed this in the past with some items, but today we are > seeing somewhat of a reversal. A lot of the cell phones are getting > bigger, and some even say the the iPad, the latest major computing > product release, is essentially a larger Ipod Touch. Computer > monitors are also getting bigger as Apple is showing us. TVs are > getting humongous. > > Steve Yes, TVs are getting larger in two dimensions, but they are also getting thinner and lighter. The new LED displays are super thin. George * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Mark, I would posit that a sim card, while obviously a component, also straddles the line into device, in that, for some of us, it's a frequently moved accessory. --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: From: Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) Subject: Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 8:08 AM Steve, I was addressing components; you are addressing consumer devices. Increasing component density translates into increasing performance, reliability or capacity/capability (depending on what the engineers focus on). It allows things that were stationary to become faster, mobile or just cheaper. The user interface is an entirely different issue. You are addressing that issue. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Again, this is true for some, perhaps even most electronic/digital devices, but this trend is not universal nor is it always permanent. Some types of devices that went through a size shrinkage phase reverted to becoming larger again because smallness became a liability as opposed to an asset. Going small in such cases provides a benefit only for the manufacturer, not for the consumer. Hand-held two-way radios are an example that immediately comes to mind. Being made too small did not work well for users. The tiny buttons became hard to deal with, the small speaker rendered voice communications hard to understand, smaller displays were hard to read, they broke when dropped or were handled roughly, the smaller batteries would not last or provide sufficient power, the radios could not be placed upright on a table because the weight of the antenna would cause it to fall over, etc. This became a problem for pros such as police and firefighters and also with consumer level radios such as FRS or GMRS devices. Going small is not necessarily a good thing for the end user. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Thanks, Steve, for describing the "obvious." Surely, part of the huge popularity of Blackberry is that it fits in the hand so well. Count me among those who do not welcome tiny/tinniness. No greater nightmare than losing a miniscule sim card onto a train floorboard while crossing a frontier. A friend who is inveterate early adopter discarded his miniature Nokia one year; not professional grade, for every reason you cite, especially battery charge, which kept draining while he was on the job. Not great design to require an auto as accessory to keep the battery fresh. --- On Tue, 2/2/10, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: From: phartz...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 7:26 AM On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more > features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component > decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is > obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad > thing. Again, this is true for some, perhaps even most electronic/digital devices, but this trend is not universal nor is it always permanent. Some types of devices that went through a size shrinkage phase reverted to becoming larger again because smallness became a liability as opposed to an asset. Going small in such cases provides a benefit only for the manufacturer, not for the consumer. Hand-held two-way radios are an example that immediately comes to mind. Being made too small did not work well for users. The tiny buttons became hard to deal with, the small speaker rendered voice communications hard to understand, smaller displays were hard to read, they broke when dropped or were handled roughly, the smaller batteries would not last or provide sufficient power, the radios could not be placed upright on a table because the weight of the antenna would cause it to fall over, etc. This became a problem for pros such as police and firefighters and also with consumer level radios such as FRS or GMRS devices. Going small is not necessarily a good thing for the end user. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > Steve, I was addressing components; you are addressing consumer devices. I thought that could the case, but was not quite sure as you did not actually refer to components, but rather to "features." Anyway, your point is well taken. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Steve, I was addressing components; you are addressing consumer devices. Increasing component density translates into increasing performance, reliability or capacity/capability (depending on what the engineers focus on). It allows things that were stationary to become faster, mobile or just cheaper. The user interface is an entirely different issue. You are addressing that issue. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Again, this is true for some, perhaps even most electronic/digital devices, but this trend is not universal nor is it always permanent. Some types of devices that went through a size shrinkage phase reverted to becoming larger again because smallness became a liability as opposed to an asset. Going small in such cases provides a benefit only for the manufacturer, not for the consumer. Hand-held two-way radios are an example that immediately comes to mind. Being made too small did not work well for users. The tiny buttons became hard to deal with, the small speaker rendered voice communications hard to understand, smaller displays were hard to read, they broke when dropped or were handled roughly, the smaller batteries would not last or provide sufficient power, the radios could not be placed upright on a table because the weight of the antenna would cause it to fall over, etc. This became a problem for pros such as police and firefighters and also with consumer level radios such as FRS or GMRS devices. Going small is not necessarily a good thing for the end user. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote: > Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more > features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component > decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is > obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad > thing. Again, this is true for some, perhaps even most electronic/digital devices, but this trend is not universal nor is it always permanent. Some types of devices that went through a size shrinkage phase reverted to becoming larger again because smallness became a liability as opposed to an asset. Going small in such cases provides a benefit only for the manufacturer, not for the consumer. Hand-held two-way radios are an example that immediately comes to mind. Being made too small did not work well for users. The tiny buttons became hard to deal with, the small speaker rendered voice communications hard to understand, smaller displays were hard to read, they broke when dropped or were handled roughly, the smaller batteries would not last or provide sufficient power, the radios could not be placed upright on a table because the weight of the antenna would cause it to fall over, etc. This became a problem for pros such as police and firefighters and also with consumer level radios such as FRS or GMRS devices. Going small is not necessarily a good thing for the end user. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Feature sizes decrease in electronics every 1-1.5 years, so more features per given area. Eventually, the format size for a component decreases as well. This has been occurring for decades. This is obvious and I am surprised that people on the list think this is a bad thing. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key internal parts get smaller too? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...]
Just to put it in concrete terms, the micro SIM is actually slightly larger than a microSD card, and I can certainly see why my phone uses that for storage rather than a SD card. It probably has to be swapped as often as a SIM, so it is equally deserving of complaints due to its size, yet I haven't come across any. As to the reason for the different size, it is still important for the cards to be distinguishable from each other. True, micro SIMs work in mini SIM slots, so size doesn't make a difference there, but you wouldn't want a mini SIM to go into a slot that requires a micro SIM. As to micro SIMs being hard to insert/remove from some mini SIM phones, my micro SD card came with an SD card adapter, and it's likely that someone will make something similar for micro SIMs if there is a demand for it. Dual SIM adapters might already be compatible with micro SIMS for that matter. On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:03 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote: > From:b_s-wilk > Subject: New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...] > >> >>nonstandard SIM slot >> >> It is not non-standard. In is the next generation SIM. >> >> Once again, some prefer to be clinging to the past. > > This SIM card is too small for those of us who switch cards frequently. > The micro SIM is about 30% smaller [about the size you need to cut a > regular SIM card to fit two SIMs for two networks in one phone], and is > too easy to lose when switching networks. Unless there is a way to add > new networks without removing the card, the micro SIM will be easily lost. > > Since T-Mobile is one of the first to use the cards, there probably will > be a remedy for that in their new European phones and devices. However > because the new specs add multitasking and authentication, it could be > an interesting way to prevent fraud [but that will be circumvented > quickly]. > > There's no good reason for the new SIM to be a different size than the > old SIM since the active part is the same size as the current SIM card. > However there may be two not so good reasons. First, size makes it so > that the two cards are distinguishable from each other [not important, > since new card is backward compatible]. More important, the newer SIM > won't fit [you can slide it in, but you can't get it out!] in a lot of > current phones that work fine now but may have to be replaced sooner > than expected if AT&T and T-Mobile decide to switch quickly to the new > cards. > > Questionable for most consumers--good for the corporate bottom line. Who > has a budget for this? I can wait until next year, at least, and let the > bleeding edgers get hosed before the price drops. I think I'll go read a > real book now. > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key internal parts get smaller too? Back to SNL-- Remember their skit about the shrinking Nano? That was a joke when the Nano 'improved' and became microscopic. The shrinking SIM is a bad joke too. And there's NO reason to make the new technology smaller than the old one, especially since the US device is exactly 7.24187928741 times larger than my smart phone. Logically, according to Tom, the SIM should also be 7.24187928741 times larger in the iPad compared to my phone. When I worked at a newspaper designing and typesetting ads, there was a rule that you don't use any text smaller than 5 point type. Anything smaller than that was considered illegible, and only suitable for disclaimers on car ads. Now the rules are that there are no rules. Medicine has important warnings in 3 point type--for old people, yet. Legal documents got so bad that there had to be legislation to make it legible and in plain English. Smaller isn't necessarily better, otherwise the iPad wouldn't be larger that many netbooks and tablets. So what's with this nonsense of defending SIM cards that are too small to insert or remove without dropping them like a contact lens that you can't find in a pile rug. My brother rides a unicycle, but uses his bicycle most of the time because smaller isn't necessarily better. Do you drive a microcar like a Ligier or Aixam? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:06 PM, tjpa wrote: > Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets > smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key > internal parts get smaller too? I have noticed this in the past with some items, but today we are seeing somewhat of a reversal. A lot of the cell phones are getting bigger, and some even say the the iPad, the latest major computing product release, is essentially a larger Ipod Touch. Computer monitors are also getting bigger as Apple is showing us. TVs are getting humongous. So, not everything electronic is getting smaller with every passing year. Only some things. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
You are funny little man, Tom. Almost daily you make me chuckle. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:22 PM, tjpa wrote: > On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:03 PM, mike wrote: > >> By contrast Tom's hands are those of a delicate child of four. >> > > You have become our own Party of No. You disagree with anything and > everything just to be disagreeable. What's next? You'll insist that the SIM > is a color you dislike? > > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:15 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Hopefully not everything gets smaller over time. Read you spam for a solution. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:03 PM, mike wrote: By contrast Tom's hands are those of a delicate child of four. You have become our own Party of No. You disagree with anything and everything just to be disagreeable. What's next? You'll insist that the SIM is a color you dislike? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Hopefully not everything gets smaller over time. I know the again process does a lot of things but that would be awful. :-) Stewart At 03:06 PM 2/1/2010, you wrote: On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:15 PM, chad evans wyatt wrote: For some, change=improvement. Get a life. I am grateful, but alarmed at your reporting, Betty. "next-generation" for new generation sims looks like sales device, period paragraph. What benefit to consumers? The simplicity of swapping sim cards has been a huge boon to my professional activities elsewhere; I do not welcome the need to carry tweezers and magnifier, only to accomplish ordinary transit from country to country. My needs possibly are unusual, this does appear analogous to being told that my shoe size has been improved. Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key internal parts get smaller too? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
By contrast Tom's hands are those of a delicate child of four. On Feb 1, 2010 4:58 PM, "tjpa" wrote: On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Allen Firstenberg wrote: > > While "key internal parts" may get smaller,... You must have very large gorilla hands. The new SIM is half the size of an old SIM. I can't believe you are whining over this. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Allen Firstenberg wrote: While "key internal parts" may get smaller, having frequently-user-accessible parts be a user-usable size is important. You must have very large gorilla hands. The new SIM is half the size of an old SIM. I can't believe you are whining over this. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:06 PM, tjpa wrote:
>
> Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets
> smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key
> internal parts get smaller too?
>
> So... Tom... you're saying the iPad is "unnatural" since its a larger
iTouch? {:
While "key internal parts" may get smaller, having
frequently-user-accessible parts be a user-usable size is important.
*
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** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ **
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Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
Apple is going to shrink the ipad next year to subatomic..MAC fan bois will still love it though they can't see it or use it. On Feb 1, 2010 2:12 PM, "tjpa" wrote: On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:15 PM, chad evans wyatt wrote: > > For some, change=improvement. Get a life. ... Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key internal parts get smaller too? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:15 PM, chad evans wyatt wrote: For some, change=improvement. Get a life. I am grateful, but alarmed at your reporting, Betty. "next-generation" for new generation sims looks like sales device, period paragraph. What benefit to consumers? The simplicity of swapping sim cards has been a huge boon to my professional activities elsewhere; I do not welcome the need to carry tweezers and magnifier, only to accomplish ordinary transit from country to country. My needs possibly are unusual, this does appear analogous to being told that my shoe size has been improved. Tell us you have not noticed the trend where everything electronic gets smaller every year. Is it not natural that as part of this process key internal parts get smaller too? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved?
For some, change=improvement. Get a life. I am grateful, but alarmed at your reporting, Betty. "next-generation" for new generation sims looks like sales device, period paragraph. What benefit to consumers? The simplicity of swapping sim cards has been a huge boon to my professional activities elsewhere; I do not welcome the need to carry tweezers and magnifier, only to accomplish ordinary transit from country to country. My needs possibly are unusual, this does appear analogous to being told that my shoe size has been improved. --- On Mon, 2/1/10, b_s-wilk wrote: From: b_s-wilk Subject: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:48 AM > > nonstandard SIM slot > > It is not non-standard. In is the next generation SIM. > > Once again, some prefer to be clinging to the past. This SIM card is too small for those of us who switch cards frequently. The micro SIM is about 30% smaller [about the size you need to cut a regular SIM card to fit two SIMs for two networks in one phone], and is too easy to lose when switching networks. Unless there is a way to add new networks without removing the card, the micro SIM will be easily lost. Since T-Mobile is one of the first to use the cards, there probably will be a remedy for that in their new European phones and devices. However because the new specs add multitasking and authentication, it could be an interesting way to prevent fraud [but that will be circumvented quickly]. There's no good reason for the new SIM to be a different size than the old SIM since the active part is the same size as the current SIM card. However there may be two not so good reasons. First, size makes it so that the two cards are distinguishable from each other [not important, since new card is backward compatible]. More important, the newer SIM won't fit [you can slide it in, but you can't get it out!] in a lot of current phones that work fine now but may have to be replaced sooner than expected if AT&T and T-Mobile decide to switch quickly to the new cards. Questionable for most consumers--good for the corporate bottom line. Who has a budget for this? I can wait until next year, at least, and let the bleeding edgers get hosed before the price drops. I think I'll go read a real book now. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...]
Tmo US or overseas? I just read an article today that said the micro sim was not in use anywhere in the US. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:48 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > >>nonstandard SIM slot >> >> It is not non-standard. In is the next generation SIM. >> >> Once again, some prefer to be clinging to the past. >> > > This SIM card is too small for those of us who switch cards frequently. The > micro SIM is about 30% smaller [about the size you need to cut a regular SIM > card to fit two SIMs for two networks in one phone], and is too easy to lose > when switching networks. Unless there is a way to add new networks without > removing the card, the micro SIM will be easily lost. > > Since T-Mobile is one of the first to use the cards, there probably will be > a remedy for that in their new European phones and devices. However because > the new specs add multitasking and authentication, it could be an > interesting way to prevent fraud [but that will be circumvented quickly]. > > There's no good reason for the new SIM to be a different size than the old > SIM since the active part is the same size as the current SIM card. However > there may be two not so good reasons. First, size makes it so that the two > cards are distinguishable from each other [not important, since new card is > backward compatible]. More important, the newer SIM won't fit [you can slide > it in, but you can't get it out!] in a lot of current phones that work fine > now but may have to be replaced sooner than expected if AT&T and T-Mobile > decide to switch quickly to the new cards. > > Questionable for most consumers--good for the corporate bottom line. Who > has a budget for this? I can wait until next year, at least, and let the > bleeding edgers get hosed before the price drops. I think I'll go read a > real book now. > > > * > ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** > ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** > * > * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] New SIM, but improved? [was: You Saw the Demo?...]
nonstandard SIM slot It is not non-standard. In is the next generation SIM. Once again, some prefer to be clinging to the past. This SIM card is too small for those of us who switch cards frequently. The micro SIM is about 30% smaller [about the size you need to cut a regular SIM card to fit two SIMs for two networks in one phone], and is too easy to lose when switching networks. Unless there is a way to add new networks without removing the card, the micro SIM will be easily lost. Since T-Mobile is one of the first to use the cards, there probably will be a remedy for that in their new European phones and devices. However because the new specs add multitasking and authentication, it could be an interesting way to prevent fraud [but that will be circumvented quickly]. There's no good reason for the new SIM to be a different size than the old SIM since the active part is the same size as the current SIM card. However there may be two not so good reasons. First, size makes it so that the two cards are distinguishable from each other [not important, since new card is backward compatible]. More important, the newer SIM won't fit [you can slide it in, but you can't get it out!] in a lot of current phones that work fine now but may have to be replaced sooner than expected if AT&T and T-Mobile decide to switch quickly to the new cards. Questionable for most consumers--good for the corporate bottom line. Who has a budget for this? I can wait until next year, at least, and let the bleeding edgers get hosed before the price drops. I think I'll go read a real book now. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
