Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Dude. You've stepped in it now. Good luck getting a direct answer. Thanks fpr the heads-up, but I've got on my big boots. We older folks know know to walk through a slop field. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:42 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I see you are getting closer to my point. Why not make your point perfectly clear and stop beating around the bush? Is your point something along the lines that older folks, a group that you seem to have a hang-up about, are just plain out of it when it comes to newer technology, and should therefore keep their mouths (and keyboards) shut when dealing with all things modern if they do not agree with your presumptions? Steve -- WARNING: Due to a Presidential Executive Order, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant or notice. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
Quoting phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:42 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: I see you are getting closer to my point. Why not make your point perfectly clear and stop beating around the bush? Dude. You've stepped in it now. Good luck getting a direct answer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
On Jan 7, 2010, at 11:50 AM, mike wrote: Well Tom says 9...you say 6...Tony says not above 5%. But you say already above 6...why not say it's nowhere near 9%? Maybe the better question is why can't anyone get the numbers? The difference between 6 and 9 is huge. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1496424/apple-market-share-restated http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/apple-market-share-up-or-down-depending-on-who-you-ask.ars Those are old stories. How about December 31, 2009... The Mac's been on a roll, both due to its highly regarded Mac OS X Leopard operating system and to an unhappy reception for Microsoft's Windows Vista. The result: For the first time in memory, the Mac's market share has hit 9.1 percent, according to IDC data, and Windows' market share has dipped below 90 percent. (Linux distributions make up the rest.) http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=E6F063CA-1A64-67EA-E44B5944AE55001A * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:01 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: But I was writing about you. What you wrote was a clear example of Windows thinking. I hear from people who have recently gotten any iPody device, and I also overhear recent recipients telling others about their excitement, and for the most part they are far more excited about having joined the ranks of the cool and up-to-date crowd than they are about the quality of those products. Most people who get any make or model of any portable electronic device don't have much of a clue at all as to what constitutes quality in those things. Most folks I know who have an iPhone, iPod or any similar product made by Apple have Windows computers at home and probably will never change in that arena. These folks do not appear to me to make much association whatsoever between the engineering that went into making an iPod and the engineering that goes into making Macintosh computers. In fact, I do not personally know of a single person who has decided to go all the way with Apple just because they have an iPod or iPhone. I am not saying it does not happen, but it is not a revolution. I seriously think that you tend to give way too much credit to the brain processes of the average consumer. Most buyers of products are brand name driven or price driven and they are also prompted to buy the type of product that is currently in vogue. Think Beanie Babies or Cabbage Patch or VHS over Betamax or Windows over Macintosh. Consumers mostly respond to advertising or to price or to what they think is the most popular in the firm belief that most popular equates with best or means that the product is a so-called must have. Again, I am not disparaging any Apple portable device, or any other brand for that matter. I am simply saying that issues of product quality, product specifications and additional technical parameters are not much of a factor when a customer enters that Best Buy store. Were such factors really a big part of the purchasing process, these retail stores would actually have staff that could answer such questions, and product advertising would reflect those concerns were they any big deal. You will have to go to a Myer-Emco or such if you want any meaningful answers about quality in an electronic device, or do your own research online or ask the opinion of friend who is knowledgeable on the subject. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 7, 2010, at 9:38 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Again, I am not disparaging any Apple portable device, or any other brand for that matter. I am simply saying that issues of product quality, product specifications and additional technical parameters are not much of a factor when a customer enters that Best Buy store. Mac sales figures dispute your theory. While just about everybody else in the industry had negative growth, Mac sales are up 16% year over year. When I'm working on site it is not uncommon for a secretary or AA to ask if they can get some advice. They don't ask dumb questions. To the contrary I'm impressed by how well they think things through. They ask tough questions about system integration that are often wiser than the analysis I see from supposed IT pros. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:23 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Mac sales figures dispute your theory. While just about everybody else in the industry had negative growth, Mac sales are up 16% year over year. Citing such stats may initiate a dispute, but does not negate my theory. Sales figures for Apple's computers does not prove that people who got other Apple products were thereby swayed into getting a Macintosh computer. Everyone, Apple Corp. included, thought that the switch to an Intel processor would boost sales. In fact, anybody that I know who got a Macintosh when they had previously owned Windows machines would probably never had done so had Apple not moved to the Intel, thus providing for the use of Windows on an Apple computer. Those individuals did make a decision based upon quality of product as well as the availability of having two operating systems at their disposal. Those same folks are not the ones that we were discussing. We were talking about folks who buy portable, mostly entertainment devices, and those folks are usually young, not all that sophisticated about how electronic devices work, and want whatever is currently trendy. When I'm working on site it is not uncommon for a secretary or AA to ask if they can get some advice. They don't ask dumb questions. To the contrary I'm impressed by how well they think things through. They ask tough questions about system integration that are often wiser than the analysis I see from supposed IT pros. Yeah, well, that does not mean that they are educated consumers in a retail environment, especially when it comes to products that they are not particularly knowledgeable about. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
Since this thread is now about reality, I gotta ask: If this is true, how many years will it take to reach 100% of the market? How many to rise above 5%? On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:23 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Mac sales figures dispute your theory. While just about everybody else in the industry had negative growth, Mac sales are up 16% year over year. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 7, 2010, at 10:59 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Those same folks are not the ones that we were discussing. We were talking about folks who buy portable, mostly entertainment devices, and those folks are usually young, not all that sophisticated about how electronic devices work, and want whatever is currently trendy. A very false stereotype that I reject. It is the old geezers like you that still have 12:00 AM flashing on their VCRs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
On Jan 7, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Tony B wrote: Since this thread is now about reality, I gotta ask: If this is true, how many years will it take to reach 100% of the market? How many to rise above 5%? Apple has been above 5 for quite some time. I think they are at about 9 now. With Android moving into computers I think we will see more diversity in the future. Nobody will have 100%, but some will start wondering about how long it will be for M$ to hit zero. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
According to Frank Cioffi of Market Watch, Apple's share is already at 6%. He further notes that Apple gets one of every five dollars from the home computing market, presumably in the US, but the article didn't say. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Since this thread is now about reality, I gotta ask: If this is true, how many years will it take to reach 100% of the market? How many to rise above 5%? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
If the youngsters were hip to what tech works well, they'd not be buying ipods for 'sound quality', ipods are not known for their fidelity. They look cool, they sync fairly easy...they play well enough. I know what I'm talking about...I've got six of them. I got mine not for sound quality but ease of use for what I use mine for. My wife has a different mp3 player because her needs were different. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:29 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 7, 2010, at 10:59 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Those same folks are not the ones that we were discussing. We were talking about folks who buy portable, mostly entertainment devices, and those folks are usually young, not all that sophisticated about how electronic devices work, and want whatever is currently trendy. A very false stereotype that I reject. It is the old geezers like you that still have 12:00 AM flashing on their VCRs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
One of the reasons for the 20% of dollars is that their model is built on profits from hardware more than software. Plus they have a very diverse market. They do not loose any money on their Iphones. ATT takes all the risk. So Apple is a highly profitable company. Stewart At 10:39 AM 1/7/2010, you wrote: According to Frank Cioffi of Market Watch, Apple's share is already at 6%. He further notes that Apple gets one of every five dollars from the home computing market, presumably in the US, but the article didn't say. Thank you, Mark Snyder * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality
Well Tom says 9...you say 6...Tony says not above 5%. But you say already above 6...why not say it's nowhere near 9%? Maybe the better question is why can't anyone get the numbers? The difference between 6 and 9 is huge. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1496424/apple-market-share-restated http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/apple-market-share-up-or-down-depending-on-who-you-ask.ars Couple of different views...the ars article shows Apple share going down, not up at least according to IDC. http://247wallst.com/2010/01/04/google-android-starts-to-hurt-apple-iphone-share/ A couple of polls regarding iphone vs android sales. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: According to Frank Cioffi of Market Watch, Apple's share is already at 6%. He further notes that Apple gets one of every five dollars from the home computing market, presumably in the US, but the article didn't say. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Since this thread is now about reality, I gotta ask: If this is true, how many years will it take to reach 100% of the market? How many to rise above 5%? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:59:39 -0500, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:23 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Mac sales figures dispute your theory. While just about everybody else in the industry had negative growth, Mac sales are up 16% year over year. Citing such stats may initiate a dispute, but does not negate my theory. Sales figures for Apples computers does not prove that Or your personal experience. -- R:\katan - SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:29 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 7, 2010, at 10:59 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Those same folks are not the ones that we were discussing. We were talking about folks who buy portable, mostly entertainment devices, and those folks are usually young, not all that sophisticated about how electronic devices work, and want whatever is currently trendy. A very false stereotype that I reject. Reject away all that you want. You see my observation as being a stereotype, yet a stereotype is not, by definition, erroneous in nature. But it is true that a stereotype is, in fact, something that is very widely held and believed. As is said, 50,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong. It is the old geezers like you that still have 12:00 AM flashing on their VCRs. God! You have cut me to the core! How can I possibly recover from such an attack? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
Problem is even if it is flashing 12 it is still right twice a day. Secondly who still has VCR's hooked up to their system anyway? Stewart At 12:29 PM 1/7/2010, you wrote: It is the old geezers like you that still have 12:00 AM flashing on their VCRs. God! You have cut me to the core! How can I possibly recover from such an attack? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 7, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Stewart Marshall wrote: Secondly who still has VCR's hooked up to their system anyway? I see you are getting closer to my point. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 6, 2010, at 2:31 AM, Constance Warner wrote: In this case, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that fancy cellphones have replaced computers as all-purpose communications devices. Cellphones are too small to display most of what's on the Web. For a lot of people, cellphones are too small, period; they can't be read without eyestrain. They're VERY expensive--you pay a lot for the phones per se, the monthly payments, and the two-year contracts that are usually required. They can't be used with all carriers or in some parts of the country (see the cellphone maps if you doubt this). Our reality is often shaped by advertising and we don't realize that what most people do is not advertised (because it does not have to be). Most people use paygo, not the advertised contracts. Most people have simple cellphones. Many iPhones are obtained on a family plan that works out to have a very competitive. It takes some work to figure out, but a little digging almost always produces a better solution. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:56 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Our reality is often shaped by advertising and we don't realize that what most people do is not advertised (because it does not have to be). Most people use paygo, not the advertised contracts. Most people have simple cellphones. That depends upon what simple means. Used to be that a phone that only placed and received calls was a simple phone. Nowadays, a phone that does the above, plus has a camera, can send and receive text and can even connect to the web can be considered too simple and worthy of being replaced. It also depends upon how much a phone users ego is involved in the equation. Cell phones are the bling of the monied set. Cell phones should be carried openly so that everyone can see what you've got. Indeed, one can even be shunned and/or ridiculed by others if they do not possess the right cell phone. Watch cell phone ads and you will see how social issues, envy and lust play into the phone ownership equation. It's as bad as it is with cars. It is stupid. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:08 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Weren't there stories from NY and other metro areas of people getting mugged specifically because they had white earbuds and thus the most expensive mp3 player on the market? Yes. Bling envy. No great dollar value involved, just bling for braggarts. Would that those who mugged to get one got mugged for that device themselves a bit later on. A close friend got emails from three of her friends wherein they related Christmas gifts they had gotten this year. Two boasted of an iPod Touch, and one of an iPod. Nothing else mentioned. Just those items, as if you got one of those you had reached the pinnacle of gift reception. And these were full blown adults. Stupid. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: A close friend got emails from three of her friends wherein they related Christmas gifts they had gotten this year. Two boasted of an iPod Touch, and one of an iPod. Nothing else mentioned. Just those items, as if you got one of those you had reached the pinnacle of gift reception. And these were full blown adults. Stupid. What? You think that somebody who got a Zune is going to brag about it? You are so out of touch. It is rare when the very best can be bought for such a reasonable price. No surprise at all that it is a gift that makes someone happy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
Reasonable being the highest price on the market... On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:38 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: A close friend got emails from three of her friends wherein they related Christmas gifts they had gotten this year. Two boasted of an iPod Touch, and one of an iPod. Nothing else mentioned. Just those items, as if you got one of those you had reached the pinnacle of gift reception. And these were full blown adults. Stupid. What? You think that somebody who got a Zune is going to brag about it? You are so out of touch. It is rare when the very best can be bought for such a reasonable price. No surprise at all that it is a gift that makes someone happy. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:38 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: What? You think that somebody who got a Zune is going to brag about it? You are so out of touch. Not out of touch, as you say. I understand that those folks who received the iPody devices are primarily thrilled because they now have what everybody else has. This is the lemming mentality. These gift recipients finally belong, no longer outcasts. I do not disparage the quality of those products, but I do not that is why these folks were so thrilled. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 6, 2010, at 4:58 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Not out of touch, as you say. I understand that those folks who received the iPody devices are primarily thrilled because they now have what everybody else has. This is the lemming mentality. These gift recipients finally belong, no longer outcasts. Not at all. You are looking at the world through the eyes of a Windows user. You get what everybody else has got, not because it is good, but because it is what everybody else has got. The logic for iPods and iPhones is very different. People do not buy those because they are the cheapest choice. People get them because they are the very best and happen to be very reasonably priced. While this produces a situation where almost everybody has one, the motivation is very different. Having an iPod or an iPhone brings true joy. Most people who get Windows justify it by telling you why they had to get it (instead of the Mac that they really wanted). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:42 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jan 6, 2010, at 4:58 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Not out of touch, as you say. I understand that those folks who received the iPody devices are primarily thrilled because they now have what everybody else has. This is the lemming mentality. These gift recipients finally belong, no longer outcasts. Not at all. You are looking at the world through the eyes of a Windows user. You get what everybody else has got, not because it is good, but because it is what everybody else has got. No, no, no! It wasn't ME who got an iPody device. The folks who were breathlessly extolling the fact that THEY had gotten one ARE Windows users. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Reality [Was: Computer Guys ( gal) Show]
On Jan 6, 2010, at 9:26 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: No, no, no! It wasn't ME who got an iPody device. The folks who were breathlessly extolling the fact that THEY had gotten one ARE Windows users. And good for them. I'm observing quite a change in attitude among Windows drones after they get an iPod or iPhone. They notice that the world did not come to an end. Many of them then go out and make their next computer a Mac. But I was writing about you. What you wrote was a clear example of Windows thinking. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Reality Sets In -- Win7 to XP Downgrade Plan Contemplated
http://gcn.com/articles/2009/06/18/microsoft-clarifies-windows-7- downgrade-rights.aspx?s=gcndaily_190609 As I would expect, M$'s first offer only applies to expensive versions of Win7. How long will it be before we get a downgrade plan for NetBooks? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
