Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
I bought Cyberpower a number of years ago and am gratified to hear they are still in business. I once bought a Mac mini and though it is a nice little machine, I did resent the hard sell to sign up for Apple support plan (I don't consider that an anectdote because it undoubtedly reflects a company policy - imho). I need to choose a settop and thought about a mini, but then checked out System76 for a linux machine. The used to have a mini competitor (same form factor) and I was disappointed to see it removed from the product line-up. They did have a small form factor box that was obviously a set-top (Meerkat Ion, the Meerkat is even cheaper). It comes installed with Ubuntu and it is a really sweet machined. Souped up with 4GB and as 320G hd it came in at the starting price for a mini and has a broad array of ports for media.(HDMI, AVI, DVI, 6 usb, esata) It has worked great for general uses (haven't tried development, and am not interested in gaming - bought an PS2 cheap for the kids to that purpose). Firefox works so much better under Ubuntu than Windows. I am stoked. The only things I miss from the mini are the remote (though I bought a streamzap which I have yet to install though a wireless kbd-mouse I might prefer) and then theres the issue of iTunes and my downloaded tv shows. I am going to try to see how intunes on XP under VMWARE works as a solution. If it is does, absolutely no regrets. It is going to be my recommendation for the next grandma machine someone solicits. - Original Message From: mike xha...@gmail.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 7:18:54 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon? The cyberpower I mentioned does audio also thru the port. Something also to keep in mind, as of now and any time in the future, you can't play 1080p content from any mac unless you've ripped it from another source. Friend of mine just built a small rig for behind his new 1080p monitor in the living room, blu ray reader/burner, HDMI out, full surround sound. All for around 600 bux. As I said it depends on the job and the customer, to believe any one brand/machine is right for everyone is asinine. On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Check the HDMI output of the computer. My system at home has HDMI but it is video only. No Audio. So I use a DVI-HDMI cable. If the system puts out HDMI to include Audio the video device would either have to have built in speakers, or a splitter with audio cables. Most computers (Laptops) are putting out Video only on an HDMI output as it is smaller, and more easily mounted onto a laptop board than a DVI port. Stewart At 05:36 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: Yeah, I thought about this when I sent the email, I was properly corrected. There is the point though that HDMI carries surround sound audio, so you could drive a big screen tv with this single cord as well as surround sound. So if you are one that is into say watching movies this connector would be much handier. Does the macbook pro output digital surround sound? I think it does. So two cables, and adapter will do it on the macbook. Single cable no adapter if you have HDMI. Six of one, half dozen... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Will the system you built at Cyberpower run OS-X? Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net Join my Mafia http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726 On Nov 28, 2009, at 3:47 PM, mike wrote: More crap from Tom. Top 17 macbook pro runs 2500 dollars For under 1800 I can get a system with 17 display (1680 x 1050) as opposed to apple's 1920 x 1200 intel i7 1.73 cpu to apple's older 2.8 core 2 duo intel mainboard on both machines 4 gigs ddr3 memory on both machines geforce 250m with 1 gig of ram to Apples 9600m with 512 bluetooth, webcam, hdmi out..no hdmi on apple 500 gig 7200 HD opposed to apple's 500 gig 5400 drive 8x dvdrw gigabit network adapter So for 700 dollars less I get a smaller resolution for my screen. Much better graphics, faster HD..HDMI. 1 year warranty on both machines. Apple has the advantage of stores which may be lcoal to you. So in the end it's up to you to decide if the 700 dollar difference is worth it. But...there is a 700 dollar difference. To some of us, 700 dollars is significant. I built the system at Cyberpower. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 28, 2009, at 4:24 PM, mike wrote: His point was, that part of the much higher price for Apple products is the built in better warranty support. As in, you get what you pay for. Fox News says Macs cost more. Reviewers that compare hardware feature for feature say Macs cost about the same for equivalent features. In Mike's world I could sell for $100 an empty cardboard box with a computer drawn on it with a crayon and he would say good deal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Mike, the statement was that an Apple machine is not much different in cost from an equally spec'd PC. Your example does not refute this by being a substantially cheaper PC that is also substantially different from the Mac you are comparing it to. Also, I have to dispute most of the implied advantages of the system you outline. Before that though, you are a little dismissive of how your proposed system's screen resolution is smaller, but in fact it is three quarters of the resolution of the MacBook Pro, which is substantially coarser. You say that the i7 is newer than the Core 2 duo, but in what ways is it better computationally than the Core 2 Duo at three fifths the clock speed? I haven't seen benchmarks, but I am suspicious that the i7 can be enough more efficient per clock cycle to overcome that speed difference, or even come close. Looking at what I think your system was, I see that getting a 2 GHz i7 instead of your 1.73 GHz would cost you $594 more, wiping out most of your price difference right there and still falling short of the MacBook's 2.8 GHz. You can get a slower hard drive for the CyberpowerPC laptop, or a faster one for the MacBook. You could have easily done a real direct comparison here if you wanted to. The MacBook has a Mini DisplayPort (newer technology and now VESA approved), and with the appropriate adapter, it can output to HDMI, VGA, DVI, Dual-link DVI or DisplayPort. You can get the HDMI adapter for under $20 if you need it. Things you left out: The CyberpowerPC.com laptop has firewire 400 compared to firewire 800 for the Pro. It is 2.5 times bulkier than the MacBook pro and weighs 11.5 lb., compared to 6.5 lb. for the MacBook. The MacBook has two graphics processors, is much more energy efficient, has much better battery life, and contains much less toxic material. Then there's the multitouch trackpad, the backlit keyboard, the optical audio input/output, the magsafe power cord, most of which can't be had for any price outside Apple. If you go back to Cyberpower and try to match the specs of the 17 MacBook Pro more closely, you'll see that you'll have to settle for the coarser 1680 x 1050 display, but otherwise you can get a good match for the Mac's processor, storage, and the better of its two graphics processors for about $500 less. Of course, the cruder display accounts for a great deal of that price difference, and you are still losing on size, weight, output options, battery, etc. From:mike xha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon? More crap from Tom. Top 17 macbook pro runs 2500 dollars For under 1800 I can get a system with 17 display (1680 x 1050) as opposed to apple's 1920 x 1200 intel i7 1.73 cpu to apple's older 2.8 core 2 duo intel mainboard on both machines 4 gigs ddr3 memory on both machines geforce 250m with 1 gig of ram to Apples 9600m with 512 bluetooth, webcam, hdmi out..no hdmi on apple 500 gig 7200 HD opposed to apple's 500 gig 5400 drive 8x dvdrw gigabit network adapter So for 700 dollars less I get a smaller resolution for my screen. Much better graphics, faster HD..HDMI. 1 year warranty on both machines. Apple has the advantage of stores which may be lcoal to you. So in the end it's up to you to decide if the 700 dollar difference is worth it. But...there is a 700 dollar difference. To some of us, 700 dollars is significant. I built the system at Cyberpower. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 28, 2009, at 4:24 PM, mike wrote: His point was, that part of the much higher price for Apple products is the built in better warranty support. As in, you get what you pay for. Fox News says Macs cost more. Reviewers that compare hardware feature for feature say Macs cost about the same for equivalent features. In Mike's world I could sell for $100 an empty cardboard box with a computer drawn on it with a crayon and he would say good deal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Look at any benchmark, the i7 is the next gen in intel's barn. The mhz myth has long been refuted, take a look at benchmarks. I was not dismissive, I listed the differences as they were...the screen resolution was the only factor where the system built online was lesser than the macbook pro. To someone doing video editing this would be a difficult choice..a much faster CPU for saving time...or a much higher resolution for working easier. I might go for the i7 for more raw data crunching...you may want the bigger workspace and go for the higher resolution. The substantial differences, aside from the screen were better/faster parts on the cyberpower for less money. Like the 7200 HD instead of 5400. A direct comparison of this feature as you point out would have simply upped the price of the macbook making the price difference even greater, yes you can up the macbook HD speed, thus making it equal to the cyberpower, at a cost. Good points with HDMI, I vote draw on that one. You are correct, no FW 800 on they cyberpower, multitouch on the pad...none, correct. A FW card could be added to the cyberpower..multitouch not so easy. These differnces should be considered when buying a machine. If you can't get a machine for linux or windows with multitouch how do you compare this feature? Does it become priceless and thus worth the 700 difference? I don't know, depends on the user I'd expect. As far as casing, yeah the mac is beautiful..again each person can decide for themselves if this is worth the extra cost in the end. You have many good points, points I didn't include but valid. Each of these things should be weighed individually, the worth of a FW port is related to the users need. Useless to me, needed greatly for others. There is a point where comparison is pointless except on a user by user basis. But I think the basic point I was tyring to make was made, there are high end quality made machines for linux or windows that don't cost as much as macs. You just have to decide on which side you are going to sacrifice...which is what I said. Some on the list believe there is no sacrifice when you buy a mac. On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:20 PM, David K Watson davidkirkwat...@gmail.comwrote: Mike, the statement was that an Apple machine is not much different in cost from an equally spec'd PC. Your example does not refute this by being a substantially cheaper PC that is also substantially different from the Mac you are comparing it to. Also, I have to dispute most of the implied advantages of the system you outline. Before that though, you are a little dismissive of how your proposed system's screen resolution is smaller, but in fact it is three quarters of the resolution of the MacBook Pro, which is substantially coarser. You say that the i7 is newer than the Core 2 duo, but in what ways is it better computationally than the Core 2 Duo at three fifths the clock speed? I haven't seen benchmarks, but I am suspicious that the i7 can be enough more efficient per clock cycle to overcome that speed difference, or even come close. Looking at what I think your system was, I see that getting a 2 GHz i7 instead of your 1.73 GHz would cost you $594 more, wiping out most of your price difference right there and still falling short of the MacBook's 2.8 GHz. You can get a slower hard drive for the CyberpowerPC laptop, or a faster one for the MacBook. You could have easily done a real direct comparison here if you wanted to. The MacBook has a Mini DisplayPort (newer technology and now VESA approved), and with the appropriate adapter, it can output to HDMI, VGA, DVI, Dual-link DVI or DisplayPort. You can get the HDMI adapter for under $20 if you need it. Things you left out: The CyberpowerPC.com laptop has firewire 400 compared to firewire 800 for the Pro. It is 2.5 times bulkier than the MacBook pro and weighs 11.5 lb., compared to 6.5 lb. for the MacBook. The MacBook has two graphics processors, is much more energy efficient, has much better battery life, and contains much less toxic material. Then there's the multitouch trackpad, the backlit keyboard, the optical audio input/output, the magsafe power cord, most of which can't be had for any price outside Apple. If you go back to Cyberpower and try to match the specs of the 17 MacBook Pro more closely, you'll see that you'll have to settle for the coarser 1680 x 1050 display, but otherwise you can get a good match for the Mac's processor, storage, and the better of its two graphics processors for about $500 less. Of course, the cruder display accounts for a great deal of that price difference, and you are still losing on size, weight, output options, battery, etc. From:mike xha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon? More crap from Tom. Top 17 macbook pro runs 2500 dollars For under 1800 I can get a system with 17 display (1680 x 1050) as
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
On Nov 29, 2009, at 4:50 PM, mike wrote: But I think the basic point I was tyring to make was made, there are high end quality made machines for linux or windows that don't cost as much as macs. And my point, which has now been amply demonstrated, is that this is a bunch of crap. A myth perpetrated by dishonest M$ ads, WFB blather, and M$ press minions. And we still have the original post. Quick, efficient service from Apple vs. wretched treatment by the PC vendor. I guess we could look at the CyberPower user comments... Apart from the system being on back-order for a month, all went well. There are a few things odd though, such as that I cannot turn off the fan lights on my case with the case's on/off fan lights switch. They must have missed that when they were wiring the case to the motherboard. I haven't had time to fix that myself yet. Another thing that comes to mind is that with the professional wiring, they bundled a bunch of cables right in front of the Radean HD 5870 shroud's air- intake. I had to wiggle stuff around to clear that. The computer was fairly beaten up during shipping, I'm unsure if this was a problem with the packing or with the company handling the system during transit. The computer has a USB device overcurrent error on boot at present, which prevents me from commenting on the quality of the product. the computer arrived (a little later than I would have loved) and the side panel fan was not plugged in, it had an adapter on it that I couldn't find where it plugged too? it was supposed to be a varialble speed fan setup, but I cannot find where it's adjustable? no instructions on that feature included. need to teach your sales staff a better overall attitude; I purchased a $5000.00 system and person in other end didnt sound like he gave a flying F*** Yes Mike, this sounds just like Apple. Ha ha. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
On Nov 29, 2009, at 5:58 PM, mike wrote: Keep dancing Tom, I expect no less. Mike retreats to fantasy land (once again). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:47 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: hdmi out..no hdmi on apple To the best of my knowledge, a DVI HDMI cable will achieve the exact same result at the output end that an HDMI HDMI achieves. If I am wrong on this, then please correct me So for 700 dollars less I get a smaller resolution for my screen. Much better graphics, faster HD..HDMI. Again, DVI HDMI is the same electronically as HDMI HDMI unless I am very seriously mistaken (see above.) A HDMI output on a computer is simply a case wherein the digital video signal is made to be output to a HDMI interface instead of the standard DVI interface. It is basically just DVI being sent via a HDMI cable so it can connect to a monitor that has HDMI inputs. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Check the HDMI output of the computer. My system at home has HDMI but it is video only. No Audio. So I use a DVI-HDMI cable. If the system puts out HDMI to include Audio the video device would either have to have built in speakers, or a splitter with audio cables. Most computers (Laptops) are putting out Video only on an HDMI output as it is smaller, and more easily mounted onto a laptop board than a DVI port. Stewart At 05:36 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: Yeah, I thought about this when I sent the email, I was properly corrected. There is the point though that HDMI carries surround sound audio, so you could drive a big screen tv with this single cord as well as surround sound. So if you are one that is into say watching movies this connector would be much handier. Does the macbook pro output digital surround sound? I think it does. So two cables, and adapter will do it on the macbook. Single cable no adapter if you have HDMI. Six of one, half dozen... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
The cyberpower I mentioned does audio also thru the port. Something also to keep in mind, as of now and any time in the future, you can't play 1080p content from any mac unless you've ripped it from another source. Friend of mine just built a small rig for behind his new 1080p monitor in the living room, blu ray reader/burner, HDMI out, full surround sound. All for around 600 bux. As I said it depends on the job and the customer, to believe any one brand/machine is right for everyone is asinine. On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Check the HDMI output of the computer. My system at home has HDMI but it is video only. No Audio. So I use a DVI-HDMI cable. If the system puts out HDMI to include Audio the video device would either have to have built in speakers, or a splitter with audio cables. Most computers (Laptops) are putting out Video only on an HDMI output as it is smaller, and more easily mounted onto a laptop board than a DVI port. Stewart At 05:36 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote: Yeah, I thought about this when I sent the email, I was properly corrected. There is the point though that HDMI carries surround sound audio, so you could drive a big screen tv with this single cord as well as surround sound. So if you are one that is into say watching movies this connector would be much handier. Does the macbook pro output digital surround sound? I think it does. So two cables, and adapter will do it on the macbook. Single cable no adapter if you have HDMI. Six of one, half dozen... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
hdmi out..no hdmi on apple To the best of my knowledge, a DVI HDMI cable will achieve the exact same result at the output end that an HDMI HDMI achieves. If I am wrong on this, then please correct me DVI and HDMI are the same for transmitting uncompressed digital video. The difference is that DVI is video-only. HDMI also transmits audio. Handy if your display has speakers, but not if you use external speakers. DVI to HDMI cable is all you need for HDMI on a monitor. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Fred, I do not believe that I have ever bought AppleCare (my wife and I have bought seven new Macs over the years) and the very few times that I needed support, received it promptly with no problems. Steve B Fred Holmes wrote: While I have never purchased it, one can purchase premium support with a Dell PC. It looks as if premium support is an option when buying Dell, but mandatory when buying Mac. ??? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
His point was, that part of the much higher price for Apple products is the built in better warranty support. As in, you get what you pay for. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Stephen Brownfield steveei...@verizon.netwrote: Fred, I do not believe that I have ever bought AppleCare (my wife and I have bought seven new Macs over the years) and the very few times that I needed support, received it promptly with no problems. Steve B Fred Holmes wrote: While I have never purchased it, one can purchase premium support with a Dell PC. It looks as if premium support is an option when buying Dell, but mandatory when buying Mac. ??? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
On Nov 28, 2009, at 4:24 PM, mike wrote: His point was, that part of the much higher price for Apple products is the built in better warranty support. As in, you get what you pay for. Fox News says Macs cost more. Reviewers that compare hardware feature for feature say Macs cost about the same for equivalent features. In Mike's world I could sell for $100 an empty cardboard box with a computer drawn on it with a crayon and he would say good deal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
More crap from Tom. Top 17 macbook pro runs 2500 dollars For under 1800 I can get a system with 17 display (1680 x 1050) as opposed to apple's 1920 x 1200 intel i7 1.73 cpu to apple's older 2.8 core 2 duo intel mainboard on both machines 4 gigs ddr3 memory on both machines geforce 250m with 1 gig of ram to Apples 9600m with 512 bluetooth, webcam, hdmi out..no hdmi on apple 500 gig 7200 HD opposed to apple's 500 gig 5400 drive 8x dvdrw gigabit network adapter So for 700 dollars less I get a smaller resolution for my screen. Much better graphics, faster HD..HDMI. 1 year warranty on both machines. Apple has the advantage of stores which may be lcoal to you. So in the end it's up to you to decide if the 700 dollar difference is worth it. But...there is a 700 dollar difference. To some of us, 700 dollars is significant. I built the system at Cyberpower. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 28, 2009, at 4:24 PM, mike wrote: His point was, that part of the much higher price for Apple products is the built in better warranty support. As in, you get what you pay for. Fox News says Macs cost more. Reviewers that compare hardware feature for feature say Macs cost about the same for equivalent features. In Mike's world I could sell for $100 an empty cardboard box with a computer drawn on it with a crayon and he would say good deal. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
mike More crap from Tom. Top 17 macbook pro runs 2500 dollars For under 1800 I can get a system with 17 display (1680 x 1050) as opposed to apple's 1920 x 1200 intel i7 1.73 cpu to apple's older 2.8 core 2 duo intel mainboard on both machines 4 gigs ddr3 memory on both machines geforce 250m with 1 gig of ram to Apples 9600m with 512 bluetooth, webcam, hdmi out..no hdmi on apple 500 gig 7200 HD opposed to apple's 500 gig 5400 drive 8x dvdrw gigabit network adapter So for 700 dollars less I get a smaller resolution for my screen. Much better graphics, faster HD..HDMI. 1 year warranty on both machines. Apple has the advantage of stores which may be lcoal to you. So in the end it's up to you to decide if the 700 dollar difference is worth it. But...there is a 700 dollar difference. I think the biggest thing you get for $700 is support, local support. I hate to sound like a bigot, but I've gotten support from people whose accents I couldn't understand. I actually got a Mac for different reasons, I got tired of the refrain from MS - well, we will fix _all_ of the mistakes we made in this version of Windows and next time it _will_ be enterprise ready and then watching them not deliver. With Windows 7, they may actually be able to claim that they succeeded. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly An optimist is a guy without much experience * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
Not at all a bigot. The point is there is a choice, Tom likes to pretend there isn't. That you only give up things by getting a pc, the point is you give up things getting a mac too..like cash. His comment was that 'macs are priced similarly to pc's', this was incorrect by no small measure. I get sick of his FUD. I never said you get nothing for that 700 dollars, indeed you do get a lot if what you get gives you peace of mind. For some, like me who build their own systems all the time, the extra money is not worth it by any measure. You bring up MS, you could also buy that cyberpower laptop and put ubuntu on it. Apple has a great space in which they control with great authority. That control comes at a price as noted in another thread. If your app is not approved by the Apple guys, you are not getting on the iphone. Android has a similiar process except for one big part...if you get denied you can post the app yourself and anyone can still download and install it with the warning 'this was not approved by the market place, do you want to continue?' Why yes, I do want to continue because I like choice and freedom to make my own decisions. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Wayne Dernoncourt way...@panix.com wrote: I think the biggest thing you get for $700 is support, local support. I hate to sound like a bigot, but I've gotten support from people whose accents I couldn't understand. I actually got a Mac for different reasons, I got tired of the refrain from MS - well, we will fix _all_ of the mistakes we made in this version of Windows and next time it _will_ be enterprise ready and then watching them not deliver. With Windows 7, they may actually be able to claim that they succeeded. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly An optimist is a guy without much experience * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] A Tale of Two Hard Drives: Apple's Secret Wea pon?
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 7:23 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Not at all a bigot. The point is there is a choice, Tom likes to pretend there isn't. That you only give up things by getting a pc, the point is you give up things getting a mac too..like cash. His comment was that 'macs are priced similarly to pc's', this was incorrect by no small measure. I get sick of his FUD. I never said you get nothing for that 700 dollars, indeed you do get a lot if what you get gives you peace of mind. For some, like me who build their own systems all the time, the extra money is not worth it by any measure. You bring up MS, you could also buy that cyberpower laptop and put ubuntu on it. Apple has a great space in which they control with great authority. That control comes at a price as noted in another thread. If your app is not approved by the Apple guys, you are not getting on the iphone. Android has a similiar process except for one big part...if you get denied you can post the app yourself and anyone can still download and install it with the warning 'this was not approved by the market place, do you want to continue?' Why yes, I do want to continue because I like choice and freedom to make my own decisions. My decsion is I prefer to use a Mac OS rather than the latest M$ kludge job but my office has PCs so it pays to be able to use the cursed devices- I know they are cursed they make me curse them all the time. Win7 is way less crappy but I need to try to run it on a more modern machine than my 6 year old HP system. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
