Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-03 Thread gerald
the part that is 2-3mm from your ear is a speaker.  the radiation devise is 
housed elsewhere in the box.  you are attempting to determine the distance of 
the mechanical device, which has nothing to do with electric radiation.

I would presume the electronic portion of the blutooth device is much closer, 
as the whole thing is only a couple inches long.  the electronic transmitter in 
my folding cell phone is in the bottom portion of my cell phone, and at least 
4 from my ear.

presuming the device transmits non directionally in 3 dimensions, would not the 
signal reduce by the cube of the distance? if it were to transmit 
directionally, the square root estimate may not work.

most people in my neighbor hood hold the phone about 2' away, directly in front 
of themselves while driving down I95.  this is to transmit and view images of 
the telephone talkers. 

At 08:13 AM 12/2/2007, you wrote:
Are bluetooth headphones actually closer than a cell phone
against the ear? If we are talking about the difference between
1/4 inch and 1/16 of an inch, equally powerful signals would
have differ by a factor 16 (ie 4 squared).
The power requirement to broadcast bluetooth 30feet compared to
a cell phone 1 feet is different by a factor of  90,000.

Given that I would expect that the incident energy of bluetooth radiation 
on your body is many times (10? 100? 1000?) less than that of a cell phone.


Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did hear her on a few show while on her 
book tour and noted her concern
about the potential harm from cell phones and about the research on this to
date.

Re. bluetooth, is it definitely the case that it gives off much less
radiation than cellphones?  Even if so I wonder about the effect of
something that close to the head, closer than even cellphones are held.  But
as far as the bigger picture, long-term risk, you are probably right in that
cellphone use today probably wouldn't result in cancer for many years if not
decades, though radiation damage is cumulative so who knows if there isn't
some threshold tipping point.

Randall


On Dec 1, 2007 1:50 PM, Paul Meyer 
 wrote:

 If anyone listened to the public health academic who wrote
 The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
 quoted studies
 done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
 flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
 assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
 the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)
 One
 reason minors should not have cell phones except for
 emergency use.

 That said, bluetooth  would seem  to be a much less intense
 radiation source and if it had 10 times less of cancer risk
 than cell phones, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

 The same advice about avoiding cell phones for minors goes for aspartame.

 Randy  wrote: I was in a store checking out bluetooth
 headsets for cell phone, ending up
 getting one on sale for $15.  However another customer I was talking to
 about cell phones, etc. said that bluetooth headpieces deliver as much
 radiation to the head as using the cellphone directly, near your head,
 maybe
 more.  Bluetooth is one thing, bluebrain is another; anyone know if this
 is
 true?  If so I may well return the bluetooth and just stick to regular,
 corded headpiece, which is admittedly less convenient. I vaguely recall
 this
 coming up here before but can't locate the posts.

 Randall



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-03 Thread Paul Meyer
IIRC,  the em wave has a spherical wave front but that is the surface
of a sphere not the volume, so the square law applies. If it did 
fall off at a cubic rate there would might be more cause concern 
because you the wave energy at the transmitter would be much more intense
to reach the target antenna.

As to Tom's question, the relationship between tranmission sources and radio
waves is suspicious and being studied, but I don't know the signifigance of 
that.
Anectdotaly,  the fellows who manned the pirate radio stations in England were 
known to have their hair fall out. Also IIRC (perhaps not so germanely)
 the connection high voltage cancer is pretty established.  
Devra Davis author of the work in question is director of UoPitt's
center for Environmental Oncology.  Also, when NPR (specifically,
Fresh Air in this case, interviews cranks they do tend to challenge
some of their assertions, this was not that sort of interview and
if I had to put money on whether it was Tom or Devra Davis who
was talking out of their depth, well...)

gerald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the part that is 2-3mm from your ear is a 
speaker.  the radiation devise is housed elsewhere in the box.  you are 
attempting to determine the distance of the mechanical device, which has 
nothing to do with electric radiation.

I would presume the electronic portion of the blutooth device is much closer, 
as the whole thing is only a couple inches long.  the electronic transmitter in 
my folding cell phone is in the bottom portion of my cell phone, and at least 
4 from my ear.

presuming the device transmits non directionally in 3 dimensions, would not the 
signal reduce by the cube of the distance? if it were to transmit 
directionally, the square root estimate may not work.

most people in my neighbor hood hold the phone about 2' away, directly in front 
of themselves while driving down I95.  this is to transmit and view images of 
the telephone talkers. 

At 08:13 AM 12/2/2007, you wrote:
Are bluetooth headphones actually closer than a cell phone
against the ear? If we are talking about the difference between
1/4 inch and 1/16 of an inch, equally powerful signals would
have differ by a factor 16 (ie 4 squared).
The power requirement to broadcast bluetooth 30feet compared to
a cell phone 1 feet is different by a factor of  90,000.

Given that I would expect that the incident energy of bluetooth radiation 
on your body is many times (10? 100? 1000?) less than that of a cell phone.


Randy  wrote: I did hear her on a few show while on her book tour and noted 
her concern
about the potential harm from cell phones and about the research on this to
date.

Re. bluetooth, is it definitely the case that it gives off much less
radiation than cellphones?  Even if so I wonder about the effect of
something that close to the head, closer than even cellphones are held.  But
as far as the bigger picture, long-term risk, you are probably right in that
cellphone use today probably wouldn't result in cancer for many years if not
decades, though radiation damage is cumulative so who knows if there isn't
some threshold tipping point.

Randall


On Dec 1, 2007 1:50 PM, Paul Meyer 
 wrote:

 If anyone listened to the public health academic who wrote
 The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
 quoted studies
 done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
 flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
 assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
 the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)
 One
 reason minors should not have cell phones except for
 emergency use.

 That said, bluetooth  would seem  to be a much less intense
 radiation source and if it had 10 times less of cancer risk
 than cell phones, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

 The same advice about avoiding cell phones for minors goes for aspartame.

 Randy  wrote: I was in a store checking out bluetooth
 headsets for cell phone, ending up
 getting one on sale for $15.  However another customer I was talking to
 about cell phones, etc. said that bluetooth headpieces deliver as much
 radiation to the head as using the cellphone directly, near your head,
 maybe
 more.  Bluetooth is one thing, bluebrain is another; anyone know if this
 is
 true?  If so I may well return the bluetooth and just stick to regular,
 corded headpiece, which is admittedly less convenient. I vaguely recall
 this
 coming up here before but can't locate the posts.

 Randall



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-03 Thread Tom Piwowar
Anectdotaly,  the fellows who manned the pirate radio stations in England 
were known to have their hair fall out.

That was MI5 using some of the left over powder the CIA had made for 
Castro.



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-02 Thread Tony B
Also, my own bluetooth headphones are almost always simply
*receiving*. They only transmit when I change a track or am in a call
talking. Sorry, but compared to the very real danger of say, driving
to the grocery store, I can't get too upset about radio waves.

On Dec 2, 2007 8:13 AM, Paul Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Are bluetooth headphones actually closer than a cell phone
 against the ear?



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-02 Thread Tom Piwowar
Tom, respectfully a UofPittsburgh professor of Public Health is not
a crank, and her claims and arguments were quite reasonable when
interviewed on NPR. 

I know plenty of professors who are cranks. In fact, I suspect the 
proportion of professors who are cranks is higher than it is in the 
general population.

Tell me NPR does not interview cranks. Very funny.

Flourescent lighting does not broadcast its energy an
inch from your brain (actually I doubt the UV doesn't penetrate
your skin).  

The issue is not distance it is power and duration of exposure. Anyone 
focusing on distance immediately loses creditability: sensationalism over 
science. 

Furthermore, I think that after only about 10 years of
following the public exposure I have heard of studies (I don't know
how large the samples) that cell phone usage 
increased risk of non-malignant brain tumors.

Humans have been exposed to radio waves to a greater or lesser degree 
since 1895 (Marconi). I have not seen any studies that show people 
working or living around very powerful transmitters having a higher 
incidence of tumors. Have you? 



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-01 Thread Paul Meyer
If anyone listened to the public health academic who wrote
The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
quoted studies 
done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)
One
reason minors should not have cell phones except for
emergency use.

That said, bluetooth  would seem  to be a much less intense
radiation source and if it had 10 times less of cancer risk
than cell phones, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

The same advice about avoiding cell phones for minors goes for aspartame.

Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was in a store checking out bluetooth 
headsets for cell phone, ending up
getting one on sale for $15.  However another customer I was talking to
about cell phones, etc. said that bluetooth headpieces deliver as much
radiation to the head as using the cellphone directly, near your head, maybe
more.  Bluetooth is one thing, bluebrain is another; anyone know if this is
true?  If so I may well return the bluetooth and just stick to regular,
corded headpiece, which is admittedly less convenient. I vaguely recall this
coming up here before but can't locate the posts.

Randall



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-01 Thread Tom Piwowar
If anyone listened to the public health academic who wrote
The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
quoted studies 
done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)

This topic and radiation from monitors seems to bring out the cranks. In 
years past similar vehemence was directed to electrification and 
telephones. The common theme seems to be fear of invisible forces.

From what I have seen, you are correct to say there have not been any 
good studies. However, it should be emphasized that there have not been 
any good studies for either side of the issue: nothing to show that there 
is or is not a problem.

What clinches it for me are the studies that identify the various sources 
of electromagnetic radiation exposure. In an office environment the #1 
source is fluorescent lighting. Nothing else comes close. Another big 
source is commercial broadasting. So my thinking is that it is not worth 
stressing over minor sources when I can't do anything about the major 
sources.



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-01 Thread Paul Meyer
Tom, respectfully a UofPittsburgh professor of Public Health is not
a crank, and her claims and arguments were quite reasonable when
interviewed on NPR. Flourescent lighting does not broadcast its energy an
inch from your brain (actually I doubt the UV doesn't penetrate
your skin).  Furthermore, I think that after only about 10 years of
following the public exposure I have heard of studies (I don't know
how large the samples) that cell phone usage 
increased risk of non-malignant brain
tumors.  What are we going to see at 20 years. 

And just to reiterate,I said I thought Bluetooth was
a minimal risk, whereas with cell phones the jury is not
in.

FYI, one of the criticisms she leveled is that a widely quoted
large scale study from Denmark,  was designed to exclude people
who had the most exposure.  The subjects of the study had minutes
rather than hours per day of exposure.  

The public perception (including myself formerly) is that cell have
been given a clean bill of health. The truth is no one yet knows the
long term effects of moderate to heavy use and that in general no one
will until a 20 years long experiment run its course. Unfortunately,
the subjects in that experiment are the public. Using the public
to test health effects of products is pretty much the American way. -PJM


Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If anyone listened to the public health 
academic who wrote
The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
quoted studies 
done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)

This topic and radiation from monitors seems to bring out the cranks. In 
years past similar vehemence was directed to electrification and 
telephones. The common theme seems to be fear of invisible forces.

From what I have seen, you are correct to say there have not been any 
good studies. However, it should be emphasized that there have not been 
any good studies for either side of the issue: nothing to show that there 
is or is not a problem.

What clinches it for me are the studies that identify the various sources 
of electromagnetic radiation exposure. In an office environment the #1 
source is fluorescent lighting. Nothing else comes close. Another big 
source is commercial broadasting. So my thinking is that it is not worth 
stressing over minor sources when I can't do anything about the major 
sources.



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-12-01 Thread Randy
I did hear her on a few show while on her book tour and noted her concern
about the potential harm from cell phones and about the research on this to
date.

Re. bluetooth, is it definitely the case that it gives off much less
radiation than cellphones?  Even if so I wonder about the effect of
something that close to the head, closer than even cellphones are held.  But
as far as the bigger picture, long-term risk, you are probably right in that
cellphone use today probably wouldn't result in cancer for many years if not
decades, though radiation damage is cumulative so who knows if there isn't
some threshold tipping point.

Randall


On Dec 1, 2007 1:50 PM, Paul Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If anyone listened to the public health academic who wrote
 The Secret History of the War On Cancer some of the most
 quoted studies
 done on cell phone radiation have severe methodological
 flaws and even if they were good might been inadequate for
 assessing the  brain cancer risk 20 or 30  years out (which is
 the appropriate scale for the development of brain cancer)
 One
 reason minors should not have cell phones except for
 emergency use.

 That said, bluetooth  would seem  to be a much less intense
 radiation source and if it had 10 times less of cancer risk
 than cell phones, I would not be surprised in the slightest.

 The same advice about avoiding cell phones for minors goes for aspartame.

 Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was in a store checking out bluetooth
 headsets for cell phone, ending up
 getting one on sale for $15.  However another customer I was talking to
 about cell phones, etc. said that bluetooth headpieces deliver as much
 radiation to the head as using the cellphone directly, near your head,
 maybe
 more.  Bluetooth is one thing, bluebrain is another; anyone know if this
 is
 true?  If so I may well return the bluetooth and just stick to regular,
 corded headpiece, which is admittedly less convenient. I vaguely recall
 this
 coming up here before but can't locate the posts.

 Randall



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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-11-30 Thread Mike Sloane
I have often wondered if those people who wander around yakking on their 
cellphones in the middle of stores, traffic, etc. were mindless idiots 
before they stuck those things in their heads, or did they become 
babbling fools afterwards.


(When people near me start talking out loud, I make it a point to reply 
politely, and then they get annoyed that I am interrupting their 
important conversation.)


Mike

gerald wrote:

Most people I see with bluetooth and for that matter cell phones, and
in particular iphones and blackburys seem to suffer from severe brain
damage.





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Re: [CGUYS] Blue tooth radiation?

2007-11-30 Thread mike
 Bluetooth: Is Its Radiation Harmful?  Is using a Bluetooth-enabled cell
phone dangerous to your health? Not according to the experts
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2006/tc20060829_289239.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_technology

On Nov 30, 2007 3:20 PM, Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I was in a store checking out bluetooth headsets for cell phone, ending up
 getting one on sale for $15.  However another customer I was talking to
 about cell phones, etc. said that bluetooth headpieces deliver as much
 radiation to the head as using the cellphone directly, near your head,
 maybe
 more.  Bluetooth is one thing, bluebrain is another; anyone know if this
 is
 true?  If so I may well return the bluetooth and just stick to regular,
 corded headpiece, which is admittedly less convenient. I vaguely recall
 this
 coming up here before but can't locate the posts.

 Randall



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